subject:"OT\: wildlife photographer"

 
 Do you have any idea how much effort  time is required to 
 even see a wolf 
 in the wild ? I do.
 If that was an honest 'in the wild' shot it would be 
 fantastic. To be there 
 when not only a wolf appeared, but leaped over an obsticle 
 and you were set 
 up to capture it would truly be a lifetime event - IMO.
 

The story the photographer gave, as I recall from when I first saw the
photo, is that this was routine behaviour of the wolf which he had witnessed
many times. Accordingly he set up specially for it. He didn't just happen to
be walking by with all his gear and suddenly see a wolf jump over the fence.
This is no different to the way other wildlife photographers work, such as
Eric Hosking with his owls.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 
 You know, the problem I have with it isn't that they decided 
 it was staged; it's that they didn't decide that until AFTER 
 they had already awarded it the first prize.
 
 Every reason cited for rejecting it after the fact should 
 have been apparent before it won.
 
 Ok, so he (maybe) didn't follow the contest rules; it sure 
 looks like that from the image ... but how stupid do the 
 judges have to be to not notice that BEFORE choosing the guy 
 as Wildlife Photographer of the Year?
 

20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

Look at the fake Vermeers that Van Meegeren made and you wonder how the hell
all those experts could be fooled by such obvious crap but to a large extent
we see what we want to see. If the photographer proves that it was indeed a
wild wolf, it will suddenly become a brilliant shot again. If one of Van
Meegeren's daub is suddenly revealed to be a genuine Vermeer it will become
a masterpiece. 

I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
competition rules.

The Van Meegerens are all still shit though.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


 
 Sounds like these guys are a bunch of wankers to me.  First 
 the pick a lousy pic for their winner, then they ban it on 
 not much evidence.
 

This is Mark Carwardine, one of the 'wankers':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY

Bob


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread David Savage

2010/1/21 Bob W p...@web-options.com:


 Sounds like these guys are a bunch of wankers to me.  First
 the pick a lousy pic for their winner, then they ban it on
 not much evidence.


 This is Mark Carwardine, one of the 'wankers':
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY

We're all wankers. Some more than others.

DS

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W

Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
competition rules.

Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

William Robb

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread frank theriault

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

While I know how difficult that wolf photo would have been to take
(even if it was staged) it doesn't have ~near~ the excitement and
dynamism of yours.

That's a terrific photo!

cheers,
frank



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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread mike wilson


 Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: 
 
  
  Sounds like these guys are a bunch of wankers to me.  First 
  the pick a lousy pic for their winner, then they ban it on 
  not much evidence.
  
 
 This is Mark Carwardine, one of the 'wankers':
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY

It's not him that's wanking.  That has to be one of the best links I've ever 
seen posted here.

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: Ken Waller
Do you have any idea how much effort  time is required to even see a wolf 
in the wild ? I do.
If that was an honest 'in the wild' shot it would be fantastic. To be there 
when not only a wolf appeared, but leaped over an obsticle and you were set 
up to capture it would truly be a lifetime event - IMO.


The only way I can see it is if you somehow already knew the wolves were 
getting in over the gate, you might be able to set up a camera with a IR 
trigger like those deer cameras to catch it.


I'd like to know more about what the photographer says was going on and 
how he captured the moment. This isn't a grabbed shot.


It will never be an I was just in the right place at the right time pic.

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: frank theriault

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

While I know how difficult that wolf photo would have been to take
(even if it was staged) it doesn't have ~near~ the excitement and
dynamism of yours.

That's a terrific photo!

Sadly, it isn't one of mine.
It is a terrific photo though.
I hate to pooh pooh the wolf photo, but if the guy really had become 
familiar with said wolf's habits, it really would have been a fairly simple 
shot to take:
Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to take a 
picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and come back 
later to pick up the camera equipment.

William Robb 

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Bob Sullivan

Love the tongue.  Did you borrow a camera for this.  Pentax would
never focus fast enough.
Regards, Bob S.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

 - Original Message - From: Bob W
 Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped




 I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
 competition rules.


 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

 William Robb

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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: Bob W
Do you have any idea how much effort  time is required to 
 even see a wolf 
 in the wild ? I do.
 If that was an honest 'in the wild' shot it would be 
 fantastic. To be there 
 when not only a wolf appeared, but leaped over an obsticle 
 and you were set 
 up to capture it would truly be a lifetime event - IMO.
 


The story the photographer gave, as I recall from when I first saw the
photo, is that this was routine behaviour of the wolf which he had witnessed
many times. Accordingly he set up specially for it. He didn't just happen to
be walking by with all his gear and suddenly see a wolf jump over the fence.
This is no different to the way other wildlife photographers work, such as
Eric Hosking with his owls.


You know ... if the photographer CAN prove the photo was taken in the 
wild, he may be able to sue the contest organizers, the contest judges 
and sundry others for LIBEL.


I understand that's a BIG WIN if you can prove it, and British courts 
aren't bound by Sullivan v. NY Times.


Here in the States, the standard response seems to be buying a gun, 
barging into the exhibition and killing everyone in sight.


I think the British way works better.

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Bob Sullivan

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Love the tongue.  Did you borrow a camera for this.  Pentax would
never focus fast enough.

Not one of my shots, but you are right, Pentax wouldn't have AF'd fast 
enough for that.

The EXIF identifies the camera as a Sony A200.

William Robb

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped



- Original Message - 
From: John Sessoms 
Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped





I think the British way works better.


We might civilize you lot yet.

William Robb

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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: Bob W


 
 Sounds like these guys are a bunch of wankers to me.  First 
 the pick a lousy pic for their winner, then they ban it on 
 not much evidence.
 


This is Mark Carwardine, one of the 'wankers':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY


Yeah ... like that's NOT staged!

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Christian


Bob W wrote:


The story the photographer gave, as I recall from when I first saw the
photo, is that this was routine behaviour of the wolf which he had witnessed
many times. Accordingly he set up specially for it. He didn't just happen to
be walking by with all his gear and suddenly see a wolf jump over the fence.
This is no different to the way other wildlife photographers work, such as
Eric Hosking with his owls.

Bob


I have no issue with habituated wild-living animals.  I feed birds to 
get them close in and to get them used to seeing me around and then I 
create little natural looking perches for them to use while waiting to 
feed.  The issue I have with this photographer is that he used a 
trained, captive animal (if the allegations are true; and he is not 
denying them in all accounts I've read he is 'unavailable for comment'). 
 If I shoot captive birds and display those photographs to people, I 
mention they are captive and I wouldn't enter them into a wildlife 
contest that has rules against using captive animals.  It's fraud.



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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Christian


William Robb wrote:


I hate to pooh pooh the wolf photo, but if the guy really had become 
familiar with said wolf's habits, it really would have been a fairly 
simple shot to take:
Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to 
take a picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and 
come back later to pick up the camera equipment.


And that's his account of how he did it.  Some experts have suggested 
that a wild wolf, skulking around, would not have jumped the fence but 
would have climbed through it.



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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: William Robb
I hate to pooh pooh the wolf photo, but if the guy really had become 
familiar with said wolf's habits, it really would have been a fairly simple 
shot to take:
Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to take a 
picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and come back 
later to pick up the camera equipment.


File an insurance claim the next morning because some low-life so-and-so 
walked off with your unattended camera equipment while you were drinking 
beer.


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Christian


John Sessoms wrote:

From: Ken Waller
Do you have any idea how much effort  time is required to even see a 
wolf in the wild ? I do.
If that was an honest 'in the wild' shot it would be fantastic. To be 
there when not only a wolf appeared, but leaped over an obsticle and 
you were set up to capture it would truly be a lifetime event - IMO.


The only way I can see it is if you somehow already knew the wolves were 
getting in over the gate, you might be able to set up a camera with a IR 
trigger like those deer cameras to catch it.


I'd like to know more about what the photographer says was going on and 
how he captured the moment. This isn't a grabbed shot.


It will never be an I was just in the right place at the right time pic.



He claimed to know the wolf's habits and set up an IR camera trap 
according to the blurb next to the photo when I saw it in Australia.


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread David Savage

2010/1/21 William Robb war...@gmail.com:

 - Original Message - From: frank theriault
 Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


 On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

 While I know how difficult that wolf photo would have been to take
 (even if it was staged) it doesn't have ~near~ the excitement and
 dynamism of yours.

 That's a terrific photo!

 Sadly, it isn't one of mine.
 It is a terrific photo though.
 I hate to pooh pooh the wolf photo, but if the guy really had become
 familiar with said wolf's habits, it really would have been a fairly simple
 shot to take:
 Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to take a
 picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and come back
 later to pick up the camera equipment.

One of my favourite sequences of images I took last year was taken
over 4 hours while I slept.

I'm all for lazy photography.

DS

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Christian

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

And that's his account of how he did it.  Some experts have suggested 
that a wild wolf, skulking around, would not have jumped the fence but 
would have climbed through it.

I expect that the first few times aid wolf encountered that fence, that 
would have been exactly how it would have gotten past it. Over time as the 
wolf became familiar with it and the surroundings, he would probably have 
taken to jumping it.
This is giving the photographer the benefit of doubt that it is, in fact, a 
wild wolf and not a Malanois or Laekenois cross.

William Robb 

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped




Rob Studdert wrote:


On 21/01/2010, Ken Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote:

 


Do you have any idea how much effort  time is required to even see a wolf
in the wild ? I do.
If that was an honest 'in the wild' shot it would be fantastic. To be there
when not only a wolf appeared, but leaped over an obsticle and you were set
up to capture it would truly be a lifetime event - IMO.
   



I'm with Frank on this one, I have no idea how difficult it is to
shoot a wolf but I do know that it's not a great standalone image
regardless.



I'm firmly in the Rob and Frank camp here  -  In a competition or show 
how difficult it was for
the photographer to get a shot  should not be a consideration  in 
judging the quality of the
image... The photo should transcend that.   We can all, as 
photographers, go wow on
difficult captures, but if the photo itself isn't interesting 
aesthetically it shouldn't win a prize.


And I don't care for the jumping wolf photo at all  some others were so 
much more lovely to look at .


meanwhile --  where is the runner-ups photo?  


ann




 





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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread eactivist



In a message dated 1/20/2010 9:26:48 P.M.  Pacific Standard Time, 
kwal...@peoplepc.com writes:
Kenneth  Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

Do you have any idea how much  effort  time is required to even see a wolf 
in the wild ? I do.
If  that was an honest 'in the wild' shot it would be fantastic. To be 
there  
when not only a wolf appeared, but leaped over an obsticle and you were set 
 
up to capture it would truly be a lifetime event -  IMO.
==
Right. I suspect that is why it started being called  into question.

Marnie aka Doe  

-
We can't solve problems  by using the same kind of thinking we used when we 
created them. Albert Einstein   


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:29:15 -0600, you wrote:
From: Bob W
 
 I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
 competition rules.

Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

That *is* brilliant! They should have Photoshopped in a trractor beam
from a UFO in the upper left-hand corner...
-- 
Mark Roberts
Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

The evidence at
http://www.suomenluonto.fi/bbcs-nature-photo-competition-judge-admits-winner-photo-investigated-due-to-fraud-allegations
seems pretty convincing that the location of the shot was the Cañada
Real Center zoological park near Madrid. The stone wall could easily
have been modified but I can't see anywhere else having those unique
trees in the background. 

It has been stated that the photographer's disqualification was also
determined by answers he gave to direct questions from the judges.
We'll never know what the questions were but I'd bet that they
included an inquiry as to exactly where the photographer *claimed* to
have taken the shot. A comparison of that place to the zoological park
would be adequate for the judges to be quite sure of what was
happening. We'll never know for certain but willing to trust the
judges on this; it would be quite easy and definitive.

I've seen previous years' incarnations of this contest in London and
there have always been some amazing shots. I've also always wondered
if the judges weren't quite skeptical enough when accepting entries.
The time I went I found the children's winners included a suprising
number of 6-year-olds shooting with a Nikon F5 and 600mm f/4.0. 

-- 
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Photography  Multimedia
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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Mark Roberts 
Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

The time I went I found the children's winners included a suprising
number of 6-year-olds shooting with a Nikon F5 and 600mm f/4.0. 

Well, to be fair, the kid probably pushed the shutter button.

William Robb

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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 
  The story the photographer gave, as I recall from when I 
 first saw the 
  photo, is that this was routine behaviour of the wolf which he had 
  witnessed many times. Accordingly he set up specially for it. He 
  didn't just happen to be walking by with all his gear and 
 suddenly see a wolf jump over the fence.
  This is no different to the way other wildlife photographers work, 
  such as Eric Hosking with his owls.
  
  Bob
 
 I have no issue with habituated wild-living animals.  I feed 
 birds to get them close in and to get them used to seeing me 
 around and then I create little natural looking perches for 
 them to use while waiting to feed.  The issue I have with 
 this photographer is that he used a trained, captive animal 
 (if the allegations are true; and he is not denying them in 
 all accounts I've read he is 'unavailable for comment'). 
   If I shoot captive birds and display those photographs to 
 people, I mention they are captive and I wouldn't enter them 
 into a wildlife contest that has rules against using captive 
 animals.  It's fraud.

Yes, sure - I'm not saying it isn't a fraud - I accept the judges' opinion
on that. But Eric Hosking didn't photograph captive owls, he photographed
wild owls using pre-focused cameras and flashes with trip wires, which is
what the wolf photographer did. 

I'm only saying this to point out that the technique itself says nothing
about the wildness or otherwise of the creature, contrary to the claims of
some previous posters.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 
 Sadly, it isn't one of mine.
 It is a terrific photo though.
 I hate to pooh pooh the wolf photo, but if the guy really had become 
 familiar with said wolf's habits, it really would have been a 
 fairly simple 
 shot to take:
 Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR 
 trigger to take a 
 picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer 
 and come back 
 later to pick up the camera equipment.
 

The difficulty or ease of taking the photo is not what they judge things on
in that competition.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

  
  I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't 
 comply with the
  competition rules.
  
 
 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg
 
 William Robb

Yes.

But that's still a great photo.

Bob


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W

Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

The difficulty or ease of taking the photo is not what they judge things
on
in that competition.

You keep saying this.
I haven't seen a competition yet that judges the photos based on some 
Hurculean effort on the part of the photographer, so I'm not really certain 
of what point you are trying to make.

William Robb

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W

Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

William Robb

Yes.

But that's still a great photo.

Would it be any more brillaint than any other picture of a dog going over a 
jump, perhaps at an agility trial?

Is it the fact that it's a wolf that makes it special?

William Robb 

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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 The evidence at
 http://www.suomenluonto.fi/bbcs-nature-photo-competition-judge
 -admits-winner-photo-investigated-due-to-fraud-allegations
 seems pretty convincing that the location of the shot was the 
 Cañada Real Center zoological park near Madrid. The stone 
 wall could easily have been modified but I can't see anywhere 
 else having those unique trees in the background. 
 
[...]

As far as the wolf photo is concerned, since photos of captive animals are
allowed in the competition he could have won a prize anyway if he'd been
open about it. It really is a shame that he wasn't.

 I've seen previous years' incarnations of this contest in 
 London and there have always been some amazing shots. I've 
 also always wondered if the judges weren't quite skeptical 
 enough when accepting entries.
 The time I went I found the children's winners included a 
 suprising number of 6-year-olds shooting with a Nikon F5 and 
 600mm f/4.0. 

What is surprising about that? The children borrow their parents' equipment
to shoot stuff in their back garden, their local park or even on safari in
Africa. 

I've been to every one of these exhibitions for the last 15 years or so and
I'm always impressed by the standard of all the photography, but in the most
cases it's very obvious that the childrens' photos are indeed by children -
they haven't just clicked the shutter on a parent's set-up. 

Obviously they wouldn't be wandering around the Okavango swamps with a 600/4
on their own, so their parents get some credit, but I for one certainly
believe the kids' photos are their own.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

   Sounds like these guys are a bunch of wankers to me.  
 First the pick 
   a lousy pic for their winner, then they ban it on not 
 much evidence.
   
  
  This is Mark Carwardine, one of the 'wankers':
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9T1vfsHYiKY
 
 It's not him that's wanking.  That has to be one of the best 
 links I've ever seen posted here.
 

Didn't you see it when the series was shown last year? It was a great series
- Mark Cawardine's a very engaging character with a brain full of good
stuff, and the relationship between him, the animals and Stephen Fry was
superb.

Bob


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:22:29 -, you wrote:

As far as the wolf photo is concerned, since photos of captive animals are
allowed in the competition he could have won a prize anyway if he'd been
open about it. It really is a shame that he wasn't.

I thought captive animals were prohibited? That's how I read the
rules. (It's definitely how the judges interpret the rules!)

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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

  Is it any more brillaint than this?
  http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg
 
  William Robb
 
  Yes.
 
  But that's still a great photo.
 
 
 Would it be any more brillaint than any other picture of a 
 dog going over a 
 jump, perhaps at an agility trial?
 Is it the fact that it's a wolf that makes it special?
 

Partly. But it's also the composition and the superior technical execution.
And the rustic fence.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 
  The difficulty or ease of taking the photo is not what they 
 judge things
  on
  in that competition.
 
 
 You keep saying this.
 I haven't seen a competition yet that judges the photos based on some 
 Hurculean effort on the part of the photographer, so I'm not 
 really certain 
 of what point you are trying to make.
 

I've only said it once. I said it because in other posts in this thread
other people have pointed out that a shot should not get extra merit for
being difficult to take. In one of your previous posts you went the other
way and pooh-poohed it because it's easy to set up a shot on a trip wire and
wait for a wolf to jump over the fence.

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 As far as the wolf photo is concerned, since photos of 
 captive animals 
 are allowed in the competition he could have won a prize 
 anyway if he'd 
 been open about it. It really is a shame that he wasn't.
 
 I thought captive animals were prohibited? That's how I read 
 the rules. (It's definitely how the judges interpret the rules!)
 

They're allowed but you have to declare it.

Bob


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: Mark Roberts

The evidence at
http://www.suomenluonto.fi/bbcs-nature-photo-competition-judge-admits-winner-photo-investigated-due-to-fraud-allegations
seems pretty convincing that the location of the shot was the Ca?ada
Real Center zoological park near Madrid. The stone wall could easily
have been modified but I can't see anywhere else having those unique
trees in the background. 


It has been stated that the photographer's disqualification was also
determined by answers he gave to direct questions from the judges.
We'll never know what the questions were but I'd bet that they
included an inquiry as to exactly where the photographer *claimed* to
have taken the shot. A comparison of that place to the zoological park
would be adequate for the judges to be quite sure of what was
happening. We'll never know for certain but willing to trust the
judges on this; it would be quite easy and definitive.

I've seen previous years' incarnations of this contest in London and
there have always been some amazing shots. I've also always wondered
if the judges weren't quite skeptical enough when accepting entries.
The time I went I found the children's winners included a suprising
number of 6-year-olds shooting with a Nikon F5 and 600mm f/4.0. 


Which sort of brings me back around to my original reaction.

The cogent argument for me is the question asked by the expert they 
consulted after the fact, Why is the wolf jumping high over the fence?


More importantly, why did the contest judges NOT ask that question? That 
question alone should have prompted the judges to investigate BEFORE 
awarding the photographer first prize for the image.


I don't KNOW if the photographer broke the rules or not.

But there ain't no doubt the contest organizers screwed the pooch.

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:42:32 -, you wrote:

 As far as the wolf photo is concerned, since photos of 
 captive animals 
 are allowed in the competition he could have won a prize 
 anyway if he'd 
 been open about it. It really is a shame that he wasn't.
 
 I thought captive animals were prohibited? That's how I read 
 the rules. (It's definitely how the judges interpret the rules!)

They're allowed but you have to declare it.

Actually, what the rules say is Pictures of animal models or any
other animals being exploited for profit may not be entered. Since
the zoo in/near Madrid markets itself as a site for photographers to
get shots of these animals, this is the rule under which the photo
appears to have been disqualified, so even declaring it wouldn't have
helped.

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Photography  Multimedia
www.robertstech.com

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: Mark Roberts

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:22:29 -, you wrote:

As far as the wolf photo is concerned, since photos of captive animals are
allowed in the competition he could have won a prize anyway if he'd been
open about it. It really is a shame that he wasn't.


I thought captive animals were prohibited? That's how I read the
rules. (It's definitely how the judges interpret the rules!)


Don't know about the 2009 competition, but that's what it says for 2010.

8. Subjects and Ethics

Only pictures of wild animals and plants and landscapes are eligible 
subjects. Images of domestic animals (cats, dogs, farm animals, etc) and 
cultivated plants (species or hybrids grown in a cultivated setting) do 
not count as wildlife.


Pictures of captive animals (animals that do not live a free and wild 
existence) or involving baiting using live bait are not eligible, and 
any other baiting must be declared. Pictures of animal models or any 
other animals being exploited for profit may not be entered.


Images of animals being restrained in any way are only accepted in the 
One Earth and Wildlife Photojournalism categories when illustrating an 
issue. The competition asks photographers to put the welfare of animals 
first and to safeguard their environment and that they do not do 
anything to injure or distress animals or destroy the environment in 
their attempt to get the shot.


If the Owners or the Judges suspect that a picture was taken using cruel 
or unethical practices, the entry will be disqualified.


[paragraph breaks added to improve readability]

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/visit-us/whats-on/temporary-exhibitions/wpy-entry/Rules.jsp;jsessionid=9C2AD3C31408B8479F7BDCF9919607F4

http://tinyurl.com/yhgu3wr



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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread wendy beard

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

 - Original Message - From: Bob W
 Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped




 I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
 competition rules.


 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

 William Robb


I managed to capture a wolf attack ;-)
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/93652625

He likes to play football too
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/121289483

and frisbee
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/106555213
-- 
Wendy Beard
Carp, Ontario
Canada

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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 
  I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't 
 comply with 
  the competition rules.
 
 
  Is it any more brillaint than this?
  http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg
 
  William Robb
 
 
 I managed to capture a wolf attack ;-)
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/93652625
 

That's a superb photo.

[...]

Bob


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

 
  As far as the wolf photo is concerned, since photos of
  captive animals
  are allowed in the competition he could have won a prize
  anyway if he'd
  been open about it. It really is a shame that he wasn't.
  
  I thought captive animals were prohibited? That's how I read the 
  rules. (It's definitely how the judges interpret the rules!)
 
 They're allowed but you have to declare it.
 
 Actually, what the rules say is Pictures of animal models or 
 any other animals being exploited for profit may not be 
 entered. Since the zoo in/near Madrid markets itself as a 
 site for photographers to get shots of these animals, this is 
 the rule under which the photo appears to have been 
 disqualified, so even declaring it wouldn't have helped.
 

My mistake.

Bob


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Brian Walters

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 07:29 -0600, William Robb war...@gmail.com
wrote:
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob W
 Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped
 
  
  I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
  competition rules.
  
 
 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg
 


'More brilliant'?  Debatable.
More scary? Definitely!


Cheers

Brian

++
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Western Sydney Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/
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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped




wendy beard wrote:


On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:
 


- Original Message - From: Bob W
Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped



   


I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
competition rules.

 


Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

William Robb

   



I managed to capture a wolf attack ;-)
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/93652625

He likes to play football too
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/121289483

and frisbee
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/106555213
 


Terrifc shots, Wendy!  Especially 1 and 3

ann


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Brian Walters

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 09:22 -0500, Christian christ...@skofteland.net
wrote:

 The issue I have with this photographer is that he used a 
 trained, captive animal (if the allegations are true; and he is not 
 denying them in all accounts I've read he is 'unavailable for comment'). 


According to the press release issued by the organisers, Mr Rodriguez
strongly denies that the wolf in the image is a model wolf.

http://dpnow.com/6707.html


Cheers

Brian

++
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Western Sydney Australia
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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Cotty

On 21/1/10, David Savage, discombobulated, unleashed:

We're all wankers. Some more than others.

I'll buy that !

Mark!

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

The timing of his disqualification makes me think the judges missed it and 
it was pointed out to them or the organization after the fact.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W p...@web-options.com

Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped




You know, the problem I have with it isn't that they decided
it was staged; it's that they didn't decide that until AFTER
they had already awarded it the first prize.

Every reason cited for rejecting it after the fact should
have been apparent before it won.

Ok, so he (maybe) didn't follow the contest rules; it sure
looks like that from the image ... but how stupid do the
judges have to be to not notice that BEFORE choosing the guy
as Wildlife Photographer of the Year?



20:20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Look at the fake Vermeers that Van Meegeren made and you wonder how the 
hell
all those experts could be fooled by such obvious crap but to a large 
extent
we see what we want to see. If the photographer proves that it was indeed 
a

wild wolf, it will suddenly become a brilliant shot again. If one of Van
Meegeren's daub is suddenly revealed to be a genuine Vermeer it will 
become

a masterpiece.

I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it doesn't comply with the
competition rules.

The Van Meegerens are all still shit though.

Bob



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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: William Robb war...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: frank theriault

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:

Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

While I know how difficult that wolf photo would have been to take
(even if it was staged) it doesn't have ~near~ the excitement and
dynamism of yours.

That's a terrific photo!

Sadly, it isn't one of mine.
It is a terrific photo though.
I hate to pooh pooh the wolf photo, but if the guy really had become 
familiar with said wolf's habits, it really would have been a fairly 
simple shot to take:

You could spend weeks/months 'becomming familiar with the wolf's habits', 
assuming you first located the wolf (ves)

Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to take 
a picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and come back 
later to pick up the camera equipment.

You could spend weeks/months after finding the wolf waiting for it to pass 
by, and hopefully jumping over the obsticle.

If it was as easy as you state, you'd think we'd see some of those type 
shots, I know I for one haven't.

.
William Robb

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Jack Davis

Good crisp shots, Wendy! Timing, flawless.

Jack

--- On Thu, 1/21/10, wendy beard pointyp...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: wendy beard pointyp...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010, 12:52 PM
 On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM,
 William Robb war...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  - Original Message - From: Bob W
  Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped
 
 
 
 
  I think the wolf photo is brilliant, even if it
 doesn't comply with the
  competition rules.
 
 
  Is it any more brillaint than this?
  http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg
 
  William Robb
 
 
 I managed to capture a wolf attack ;-)
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/93652625
 
 He likes to play football too
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/121289483
 
 and frisbee
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/106555213
 -- 
 Wendy Beard
 Carp, Ontario
 Canada
 
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 directly above and follow the directions.
 


  

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Christine Aguila



From: wendy beard pointyp...@gmail.com




I managed to capture a wolf attack ;-)
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/93652625

He likes to play football too
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/121289483

and frisbee
http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/106555213
--
Wendy Beard
Carp, Ontario
Canada



Wow, Wendy, those are great photos.  Really nice!  Cheers, Christine


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: William Robb war...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W

Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Is it any more brillaint than this?
http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

William Robb

Yes.

But that's still a great photo.

Would it be any more brillaint than any other picture of a dog going over 
a jump, perhaps at an agility trial?

Is it the fact that it's a wolf that makes it special?

It definitely is for me given the rarity of wild wolves and the knowledge 
that dogs generally are domesticated and can be trained to repsond to their 
masters wishes.

William Robb

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread frank theriault

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 3:52 PM, wendy beard pointyp...@gmail.com wrote:


 I managed to capture a wolf attack ;-)
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/93652625

 He likes to play football too
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/121289483

 and frisbee
 http://www.pbase.com/wendybeard/image/106555213

That first one is stunning!  Amazing shot!

cheers,
frank


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Here's a little controversy that popped up on the DP Review Pentax
forum a few weeks back regarding the Pentax Photo Gallery. Two photos
from the same photographer:

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3826178language=EN
EXIF says the exposure time was 31 min and 29 sec and it certainly
looks that way from the star trails.

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3190723language=EN
EXIF indicates an exposure time of 16 min and 38 sec, half the time of
the first shot but the star trails aren't half as long, they're
non-existent! Also, there's no dimming or diffusion of the stars close
to the horizon from passing through more atmosphere and low-level
airborne dust like the first photo: The stars are clear and bright all
the way down to the horizon. Almost as if the sky was pasted in from
another photo...


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Bran Everseeking

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 12:40:48 -0500
Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:

 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg
 
 That *is* brilliant! They should have Photoshopped in a trractor beam
 from a UFO in the upper left-hand corner...


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


Mark - um I think the links are reversed :-)

ann

Mark Roberts wrote:


Here's a little controversy that popped up on the DP Review Pentax
forum a few weeks back regarding the Pentax Photo Gallery. Two photos
from the same photographer:

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3826178language=EN
EXIF says the exposure time was 31 min and 29 sec and it certainly
looks that way from the star trails.

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3190723language=EN
EXIF indicates an exposure time of 16 min and 38 sec, half the time of
the first shot but the star trails aren't half as long, they're
non-existent! Also, there's no dimming or diffusion of the stars close
to the horizon from passing through more atmosphere and low-level
airborne dust like the first photo: The stars are clear and bright all
the way down to the horizon. Almost as if the sky was pasted in from
another photo...


 





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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

ann sanfedele wrote:

Mark - um I think the links are reversed :-)

Looks that way. But I'm sure everyone here is smart enough to figure
it out anyway.

Mark Roberts wrote:

Here's a little controversy that popped up on the DP Review Pentax
forum a few weeks back regarding the Pentax Photo Gallery. Two photos
from the same photographer:

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3826178language=EN
EXIF says the exposure time was 31 min and 29 sec and it certainly
looks that way from the star trails.

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3190723language=EN
EXIF indicates an exposure time of 16 min and 38 sec, half the time of
the first shot but the star trails aren't half as long, they're
non-existent! Also, there's no dimming or diffusion of the stars close
to the horizon from passing through more atmosphere and low-level
airborne dust like the first photo: The stars are clear and bright all
the way down to the horizon. Almost as if the sky was pasted in from
another photo...


  


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RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Bill Sawyer

I agree with Ken - I've spent 10 summers in Michigan Upper Penninsula, I've
seen one wolf. 

The wolf photo is still up at the Detroit Exhibit.  

Bill Sawyer


-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Ken
Waller
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:21 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: William Robb war...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped



 - Original Message - 
 From: Bob W
 Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped



 Is it any more brillaint than this?
 http://www.akamairottweilers.ca/flying%20kratos.jpg

 William Robb

 Yes.

 But that's still a great photo.


 Would it be any more brillaint than any other picture of a dog going over 
 a jump, perhaps at an agility trial?
 Is it the fact that it's a wolf that makes it special?

It definitely is for me given the rarity of wild wolves and the knowledge 
that dogs generally are domesticated and can be trained to repsond to their 
masters wishes.


 William Robb


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Waller

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

You could spend weeks/months 'becomming familiar with the wolf's habits', 
assuming you first located the wolf (ves)

Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to take 
a picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and come 
back later to pick up the camera equipment.

You could spend weeks/months after finding the wolf waiting for it to pass 
by, and hopefully jumping over the obsticle.

Since it was, apparently, a captive wolf, it's kind of moot, isn't it?

William Robb 

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Bob W

Subject: RE: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

I've only said it once. I said it because in other posts in this thread
other people have pointed out that a shot should not get extra merit for
being difficult to take. In one of your previous posts you went the other
way and pooh-poohed it because it's easy to set up a shot on a trip wire 
and

wait for a wolf to jump over the fence.

That was in direct reply to a poster implying that the wolf photo would have 
been difficult to take.

Odds are, it wasn't.
Fer gawds sake Bob, the other day I pushed a few items of detritus that were 
sitting on my kitchen counter together and took a picture of it.

A few people commented that it was a nice enough picture.
This is not to imply that it was an award winner, but to indicate that I 
know that good photography doesn't have to bust one's balls.

William Robb 

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Waller

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

It definitely is for me given the rarity of wild wolves and the knowledge 
that dogs generally are domesticated and can be trained to repsond to 
their masters wishes.

And now that you know that it is a domesticated wolf.

William Robb 

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread Bob Sullivan

Look closely, he just used a big flash in the photo without star trails.  :-)
Regards,  Bob S.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
 Here's a little controversy that popped up on the DP Review Pentax
 forum a few weeks back regarding the Pentax Photo Gallery. Two photos
 from the same photographer:

 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3826178language=EN
 EXIF says the exposure time was 31 min and 29 sec and it certainly
 looks that way from the star trails.

 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3190723language=EN
 EXIF indicates an exposure time of 16 min and 38 sec, half the time of
 the first shot but the star trails aren't half as long, they're
 non-existent! Also, there's no dimming or diffusion of the stars close
 to the horizon from passing through more atmosphere and low-level
 airborne dust like the first photo: The stars are clear and bright all
 the way down to the horizon. Almost as if the sky was pasted in from
 another photo...


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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread paul stenquist

On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:08 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

Look closely, he just used a big flash in the photo without star trails. :-)
Regards, Bob S.

I don't think he used a flash or any artificial light. The light extends too
far into the background, and it's too uniform. However, it could be a
combination of two exposures. One shot before the ball dropped, the other after
dark.
Paul
On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Mark Roberts m...@robertstech.com wrote:
Here's a little controversy that popped up on the DP Review Pentax
forum a few weeks back regarding the Pentax Photo Gallery. Two photos
from the same photographer:

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3826178language=EN
EXIF says the exposure time was 31 min and 29 sec and it certainly
looks that way from the star trails.

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3190723language=EN
EXIF indicates an exposure time of 16 min and 38 sec, half the time of
the first shot but the star trails aren't half as long, they're
non-existent! Also, there's no dimming or diffusion of the stars close
to the horizon from passing through more atmosphere and low-level
airborne dust like the first photo: The stars are clear and bright all
the way down to the horizon. Almost as if the sky was pasted in from
another photo...

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: Mark Roberts

ann sanfedele wrote:

Mark - um I think the links are reversed  :-) 


Looks that way. But I'm sure everyone here is smart enough to figure
it out anyway.


Mark Roberts wrote:


Here's a little controversy that popped up on the DP Review Pentax
forum a few weeks back regarding the Pentax Photo Gallery. Two photos

from the same photographer:


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3826178language=EN
EXIF says the exposure time was 31 min and 29 sec and it certainly
looks that way from the star trails.

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTISTsubSection=2245441subSubSection=3190723language=EN
EXIF indicates an exposure time of 16 min and 38 sec, half the time of
the first shot but the star trails aren't half as long, they're
non-existent! Also, there's no dimming or diffusion of the stars close
to the horizon from passing through more atmosphere and low-level
airborne dust like the first photo: The stars are clear and bright all
the way down to the horizon. Almost as if the sky was pasted in from
another photo...


I do see what you're getting at.

One thing though, they might have been taken on different dates with 
different atmospheric seeing. I don't think that's enough to account 
for the difference in trail length, but it might account for some of the 
difference in dimming near the horizon.


And the longer exposure is facing towards some kind of light on or over 
the horizon which also makes the star trails dim as they neared the 
horizon.


Still, the shorter exposure should have longer star trails. I don't have 
any experience with the Pentax Photo Gallery, so I don't know if it 
picks up the exposure time from the EXIF or if the photographer has to 
enter it for the photo.


It might be a composite or it might be HDR. Many of his other landscapes 
have a real HDR look to them.


They are some stunning images.

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped


From: paul stenquist

On Jan 21, 2010, at 11:08 PM, Bob Sullivan wrote:


Look closely, he just used a big flash in the photo without star
trails.   :-) Regards,  Bob S.


I don't think he used a flash or any artificial light. The light
extends too far into the background, and it's too uniform.  However,
it could be a combination of two exposures. One shot before the ball
dropped, the other after dark.


That's a pretty hard edge shadow extending from that table thingy and 
from the low walls on the right side of the house in the photo without 
the star trails.


There's some kind of hard light source to the camera's left. Car 
headlights perhaps? High beams could do that.


The light is uniform in the one that does have the star trails.

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

Kenneth Waller
http://www.tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: William Robb war...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

- Original Message - 
From: Ken Waller

Subject: Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

You could spend weeks/months 'becomming familiar with the wolf's habits', 
assuming you first located the wolf (ves)

Set up camera pointing at the fence section, set up an IR trigger to 
take a picture when the wolf broke the light beam, go have a beer and 
come back later to pick up the camera equipment.

You could spend weeks/months after finding the wolf waiting for it to 
pass by, and hopefully jumping over the obsticle.

Since it was, apparently, a captive wolf, it's kind of moot, isn't it?

Yep, but originally it was presented as wild , IIRC

William Robb

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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped

2010-01-21 Thread David Mann

On Jan 22, 2010, at 3:08 AM, John Sessoms wrote:

 Here in the States, the standard response seems to be buying a gun, barging 
 into the exhibition and killing everyone in sight.
 
 I think the British way works better.

What, a knife instead of a gun?

Dave (in my city the modus operandi seems to involve a knife and a river)
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Re: OT: Wildlife photographer Stripped