Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On May 19, 2013, at 16:50 , Darren Addy wrote: I should also mention another significant negative... when you lose the crop factor you lose at the telephoto end. So your 500mm lens goes back to being a 500mm FOV instead of a 750mm FOV... meaning you will have to buy longer lenses to make up for what you lost (or keep your APS-C camera for just such a reason). Or buy a Q body for 2750 mm lens when you really have to reach. At that power, you really get into atmospherics anomalies, plus lens design flaws that show up when you are only using the very center of the field of view of a given 35mm lens. Sure is fun to try though! Joseph McAllister Too much gear, not much time -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
6) (or whatever the number is). Larger viewfinder. For me, that's number one. More pixels, less DOF etc might come handy every now and then, but I know I would appreciate to see what's in frame when clicking the button. -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com: P.J. is right, at least in my case. If/when Pentax introduces a full frame DSLR, I will probably buy one (eventually) but I won't be one of the first in line. A full frame sensor, by itself doesn't really gain you anything except: 1) shallower DOF (at the same focal length, compared to a APS-C) 2) losing the crop factor (meaning your 15mm is a 15mm FOV instead of a 22mm FOV) - helpful at the wide angle end and for tilt-shift lens users. 3) more megapixels (potentially significant depending upon the pixel pitch) 4) if a larger pixel pitch, then potentially better noise performance at equivalent ISOs -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
Well if APSC is more than good enough why did Pentax bother to develop and actually produce the 645D ? ? ? ? ? -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
There are some things for which APS-C isn't good enough: spreads in Vogue, billboards, and impressing the easily impressed. But for the vast majority of what the vast majority of us do, APS-C is indeed good enough. Paul On May 20, 2013, at 2:48 PM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: Well if APSC is more than good enough why did Pentax bother to develop and actually produce the 645D ? ? ? ? ? -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
The same reason that camera makers made medium format film cameras when the majority of users were more than happy with what they could do with 35mm film cameras. (That is to say that there was a market for them). On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 1:48 PM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: Well if APSC is more than good enough why did Pentax bother to develop and actually produce the 645D ? ? ? ? ? -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/20/2013 3:17 PM, Darren Addy wrote: The same reason that camera makers made medium format film cameras when the majority of users were more than happy with what they could do with 35mm film cameras. (That is to say that there was a market for them). On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 1:48 PM, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: Well if APSC is more than good enough why did Pentax bother to develop and actually produce the 645D ? ? ? ? ? -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. I say there was a NEED for the 645D, higher quality images than the APSC. As was once said, Necessity is the mother of invention. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
Are you sure? -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
If there isn't we probably won't care... On 5/19/2013 7:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: Are you sure? -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
P.J. is right, at least in my case. If/when Pentax introduces a full frame DSLR, I will probably buy one (eventually) but I won't be one of the first in line. A full frame sensor, by itself doesn't really gain you anything except: 1) shallower DOF (at the same focal length, compared to a APS-C) 2) losing the crop factor (meaning your 15mm is a 15mm FOV instead of a 22mm FOV) - helpful at the wide angle end and for tilt-shift lens users. 3) more megapixels (potentially significant depending upon the pixel pitch) 4) if a larger pixel pitch, then potentially better noise performance at equivalent ISOs The downsides: It depends upon what sort of shooting you do, but a larger filesize is probably going to mean lower frames per second on burst performance for action shooting, compared to a APS-C camera. Fewer frames until your buffer is full and has to wait to take another shot. Larger filesizes means more computing power to post-process and store images (something we seem willing to live with). Macro shooters will find thinner DOF to be a disadvantage, rather than an advantage Full frame DSLRs will really show the deficiencies in your lenses, particularly in the corners. That said, Pentax probably needs to produce a full frame DSLR, just to show they belong with the big boys and prevent some (more) from jumping ship to another brand. For my part, I love wide angle but find that the Sigma EX 10-20mm more than meets my needs on the wide angle end of the spectrum on a APS-C camera. I also love macro, so the increased DOF is a plus on an APS-C. The K-5/K-5 II already leads the pack at high ISO performance and the megapixels already exceeds what I need for the print sizes I will realistically ever print. I can get shallow DOF with my Sigma EX 28mm f1.8, my CZJ 35mm f2.4, and my 85mm f1.5s (heck, the DOF is shallow enough in many cases on my Bigma - why would I want to make it more challenging?) In short, the Pentax flagship cameras meet or exceed my expectations right now and a full frame doesn't do a lot for me other than let me proclaim that I have a full frame camera. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:09 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: If there isn't we probably won't care... On 5/19/2013 7:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: Are you sure? -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
Sorry typo: that should be 85mm f1.8s (and the CZJ is a Flektogon Electric) On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: P.J. is right, at least in my case. If/when Pentax introduces a full frame DSLR, I will probably buy one (eventually) but I won't be one of the first in line. A full frame sensor, by itself doesn't really gain you anything except: 1) shallower DOF (at the same focal length, compared to a APS-C) 2) losing the crop factor (meaning your 15mm is a 15mm FOV instead of a 22mm FOV) - helpful at the wide angle end and for tilt-shift lens users. 3) more megapixels (potentially significant depending upon the pixel pitch) 4) if a larger pixel pitch, then potentially better noise performance at equivalent ISOs The downsides: It depends upon what sort of shooting you do, but a larger filesize is probably going to mean lower frames per second on burst performance for action shooting, compared to a APS-C camera. Fewer frames until your buffer is full and has to wait to take another shot. Larger filesizes means more computing power to post-process and store images (something we seem willing to live with). Macro shooters will find thinner DOF to be a disadvantage, rather than an advantage Full frame DSLRs will really show the deficiencies in your lenses, particularly in the corners. That said, Pentax probably needs to produce a full frame DSLR, just to show they belong with the big boys and prevent some (more) from jumping ship to another brand. For my part, I love wide angle but find that the Sigma EX 10-20mm more than meets my needs on the wide angle end of the spectrum on a APS-C camera. I also love macro, so the increased DOF is a plus on an APS-C. The K-5/K-5 II already leads the pack at high ISO performance and the megapixels already exceeds what I need for the print sizes I will realistically ever print. I can get shallow DOF with my Sigma EX 28mm f1.8, my CZJ 35mm f2.4, and my 85mm f1.5s (heck, the DOF is shallow enough in many cases on my Bigma - why would I want to make it more challenging?) In short, the Pentax flagship cameras meet or exceed my expectations right now and a full frame doesn't do a lot for me other than let me proclaim that I have a full frame camera. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:09 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: If there isn't we probably won't care... On 5/19/2013 7:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: Are you sure? -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
I should also mention another significant negative... when you lose the crop factor you lose at the telephoto end. So your 500mm lens goes back to being a 500mm FOV instead of a 750mm FOV... meaning you will have to buy longer lenses to make up for what you lost (or keep your APS-C camera for just such a reason). On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:37 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry typo: that should be 85mm f1.8s (and the CZJ is a Flektogon Electric) On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: P.J. is right, at least in my case. If/when Pentax introduces a full frame DSLR, I will probably buy one (eventually) but I won't be one of the first in line. A full frame sensor, by itself doesn't really gain you anything except: 1) shallower DOF (at the same focal length, compared to a APS-C) 2) losing the crop factor (meaning your 15mm is a 15mm FOV instead of a 22mm FOV) - helpful at the wide angle end and for tilt-shift lens users. 3) more megapixels (potentially significant depending upon the pixel pitch) 4) if a larger pixel pitch, then potentially better noise performance at equivalent ISOs The downsides: It depends upon what sort of shooting you do, but a larger filesize is probably going to mean lower frames per second on burst performance for action shooting, compared to a APS-C camera. Fewer frames until your buffer is full and has to wait to take another shot. Larger filesizes means more computing power to post-process and store images (something we seem willing to live with). Macro shooters will find thinner DOF to be a disadvantage, rather than an advantage Full frame DSLRs will really show the deficiencies in your lenses, particularly in the corners. That said, Pentax probably needs to produce a full frame DSLR, just to show they belong with the big boys and prevent some (more) from jumping ship to another brand. For my part, I love wide angle but find that the Sigma EX 10-20mm more than meets my needs on the wide angle end of the spectrum on a APS-C camera. I also love macro, so the increased DOF is a plus on an APS-C. The K-5/K-5 II already leads the pack at high ISO performance and the megapixels already exceeds what I need for the print sizes I will realistically ever print. I can get shallow DOF with my Sigma EX 28mm f1.8, my CZJ 35mm f2.4, and my 85mm f1.5s (heck, the DOF is shallow enough in many cases on my Bigma - why would I want to make it more challenging?) In short, the Pentax flagship cameras meet or exceed my expectations right now and a full frame doesn't do a lot for me other than let me proclaim that I have a full frame camera. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:09 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: If there isn't we probably won't care... On 5/19/2013 7:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: Are you sure? -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 20 May 2013 09:50, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I should also mention another significant negative... when you lose the crop factor you lose at the telephoto end. So your 500mm lens goes back to being a 500mm FOV instead of a 750mm FOV... meaning you will have to buy longer lenses to make up for what you lost (or keep your APS-C camera for just such a reason). Or you could play a little trick on yourself and crop out an APS-c sized pic (assuming similar pixel density) :) -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
True, but, if i'm honest with myself i'm already cropping my APS-C images to Pentax Q sizes. ;) On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 20 May 2013 09:50, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: I should also mention another significant negative... when you lose the crop factor you lose at the telephoto end. So your 500mm lens goes back to being a 500mm FOV instead of a 750mm FOV... meaning you will have to buy longer lenses to make up for what you lost (or keep your APS-C camera for just such a reason). Or you could play a little trick on yourself and crop out an APS-c sized pic (assuming similar pixel density) :) -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Photography is a Bastard left by Science on the Doorstep of Art - Peter Galassi -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 20 May 2013 10:17, Darren Addy pixelsmi...@gmail.com wrote: True, but, if i'm honest with myself i'm already cropping my APS-C images to Pentax Q sizes. ;) Har, I know where you're coming from, I really could have done with a 500mm lens at the airshow I attended a couple of weeks back :) -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
P.J. Alling wrote: The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... These rumors go in cycles. I remember the 645D is vaporware threads and the (60-250/4 is vaporware) threads. -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/19/13 8:42 PM, Mark Roberts wrote: P.J. Alling wrote: The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... These rumors go in cycles. I remember the 645D is vaporware threads and the (60-250/4 is vaporware) threads. Not to mention the Pentax DSLR is vaporware threads. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
I disagree with one point made below. FF actually allows LOWER quality lenses to be used because the absolute lines/mm doesnt have to be as high for same quality of results. Yes with some really bad lenses the softness in the corners may become more visible, but with decent lenses, FF puts less emphisis on lens quality than apsc does. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- On 5/19/2013 7:35 PM, Darren Addy wrote: P.J. is right, at least in my case. If/when Pentax introduces a full frame DSLR, I will probably buy one (eventually) but I won't be one of the first in line. A full frame sensor, by itself doesn't really gain you anything except: 1) shallower DOF (at the same focal length, compared to a APS-C) 2) losing the crop factor (meaning your 15mm is a 15mm FOV instead of a 22mm FOV) - helpful at the wide angle end and for tilt-shift lens users. 3) more megapixels (potentially significant depending upon the pixel pitch) 4) if a larger pixel pitch, then potentially better noise performance at equivalent ISOs The downsides: It depends upon what sort of shooting you do, but a larger filesize is probably going to mean lower frames per second on burst performance for action shooting, compared to a APS-C camera. Fewer frames until your buffer is full and has to wait to take another shot. Larger filesizes means more computing power to post-process and store images (something we seem willing to live with). Macro shooters will find thinner DOF to be a disadvantage, rather than an advantage Full frame DSLRs will really show the deficiencies in your lenses, particularly in the corners. That said, Pentax probably needs to produce a full frame DSLR, just to show they belong with the big boys and prevent some (more) from jumping ship to another brand. For my part, I love wide angle but find that the Sigma EX 10-20mm more than meets my needs on the wide angle end of the spectrum on a APS-C camera. I also love macro, so the increased DOF is a plus on an APS-C. The K-5/K-5 II already leads the pack at high ISO performance and the megapixels already exceeds what I need for the print sizes I will realistically ever print. I can get shallow DOF with my Sigma EX 28mm f1.8, my CZJ 35mm f2.4, and my 85mm f1.5s (heck, the DOF is shallow enough in many cases on my Bigma - why would I want to make it more challenging?) In short, the Pentax flagship cameras meet or exceed my expectations right now and a full frame doesn't do a lot for me other than let me proclaim that I have a full frame camera. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 6:09 PM, P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote: If there isn't we probably won't care... On 5/19/2013 7:04 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: Are you sure? -- MaritimTim My private photo blog: http://maritimtim.blogspot.com/ To err is human to arr is pirate 2013/5/20 P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com: On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 20 May 2013 12:22, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: I disagree with one point made below. FF actually allows LOWER quality lenses to be used because the absolute lines/mm doesnt have to be as high for same quality of results. Yes with some really bad lenses the softness in the corners may become more visible, but with decent lenses, FF puts less emphisis on lens quality than apsc does. The problem is twofold, firstly obviously lens quality falls off towards the edges so many lenses that were OK on cropped format may look decidedly less attractive when used on a full frame body. Secondly people will pixel peep 100%, make judgements and proclaim a lens good or bad without considering magnification factor or final print sizes. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/19/2013 10:27 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: On 20 May 2013 12:22, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: I disagree with one point made below. FF actually allows LOWER quality lenses to be used because the absolute lines/mm doesnt have to be as high for same quality of results. Yes with some really bad lenses the softness in the corners may become more visible, but with decent lenses, FF puts less emphisis on lens quality than apsc does. The problem is twofold, firstly obviously lens quality falls off towards the edges so many lenses that were OK on cropped format may look decidedly less attractive when used on a full frame body. Secondly people will pixel peep 100%, make judgements and proclaim a lens good or bad without considering magnification factor or final print sizes. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio The simple physics is that if the FF sensor is 50% longer than the APSC sensor in both dimensions, the FF lens only needs to provide 2/3 the resolution of the APSC lens to match the overall system resolution. If the FF lens approaches the quality of the APSC lens, then a near doubling of system resolution can be achieved. What this means in real world terms is that you dont need super world class lenses on FF to get great results, unlike with APCS sized sensors. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 20 May 2013 12:44, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The simple physics is that if the FF sensor is 50% longer than the APSC sensor in both dimensions, the FF lens only needs to provide 2/3 the resolution of the APSC lens to match the overall system resolution. If the FF lens approaches the quality of the APSC lens, then a near doubling of system resolution can be achieved. What this means in real world terms is that you dont need super world class lenses on FF to get great results, unlike with APCS sized sensors. Look at the MTF diagram of most any lens designed to cover a FF lens and note the fall off in resolution/contrast 2/3 from the centre of the frame, the APS sensors very conveniently disregard this area of poor performance. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/19/2013 10:51 PM, Rob Studdert wrote: On 20 May 2013 12:44, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The simple physics is that if the FF sensor is 50% longer than the APSC sensor in both dimensions, the FF lens only needs to provide 2/3 the resolution of the APSC lens to match the overall system resolution. If the FF lens approaches the quality of the APSC lens, then a near doubling of system resolution can be achieved. What this means in real world terms is that you dont need super world class lenses on FF to get great results, unlike with APCS sized sensors. Look at the MTF diagram of most any lens designed to cover a FF lens and note the fall off in resolution/contrast 2/3 from the centre of the frame, the APS sensors very conveniently disregard this area of poor performance. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio yes, most FF lenses do have less sharpness in the corners, but as long as its not less than 2/3 of a drop off, there is no overall system loss of resolution compared to a APSC lens/sensor system with no corner dropoff whatsoever. Its similar to large format film vs smaller format film. The larger the format, the less critical the lens becomes because the absolute resolution of the lens times the area covered is still more than a small format area used with a high resolution lens. -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
Like the Brooklyn Dodgers said year after year when they had just lost the World Series - 'Wait till next year'. -Original Message- From: P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware? On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
Current Pentax lenses work great on current Pentax cameras. Why belabor this FF hysteria? All Pentax cameras have full frames. None have 24 x 36 frames. Get over it. Pual On May 19, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote: On 20 May 2013 12:44, J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The simple physics is that if the FF sensor is 50% longer than the APSC sensor in both dimensions, the FF lens only needs to provide 2/3 the resolution of the APSC lens to match the overall system resolution. If the FF lens approaches the quality of the APSC lens, then a near doubling of system resolution can be achieved. What this means in real world terms is that you dont need super world class lenses on FF to get great results, unlike with APCS sized sensors. Look at the MTF diagram of most any lens designed to cover a FF lens and note the fall off in resolution/contrast 2/3 from the centre of the frame, the APS sensors very conveniently disregard this area of poor performance. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 20 May 2013 13:35, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: Current Pentax lenses work great on current Pentax cameras. Why belabor this FF hysteria? All Pentax cameras have full frames. None have 24 x 36 frames. Get over it. Pual This is just a discussion on the physics of the issue, there's really nothing to get over. It might happen, it might not, personally I don't really care any longer. -- Rob Studdert (Digital Image Studio) Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 10:22:51PM -0400, J.C. O'Connell wrote: I disagree with one point made below. FF actually allows LOWER quality lenses to be used because the absolute lines/mm doesnt have to be as high for same quality of results. Yes with some really bad lenses the softness in the corners may become more visible, but with decent lenses, FF puts less emphisis on lens quality than apsc does. That's pretty much what Ken Rockwell says: You Can Use Cheap Lenses! I get better results on full-frame with crummy lenses than I do with my very best lenses on DX. Having bigger pixels on a larger format means you can use cheaper lenses and usually get better results than the best lenses on a smaller format. The only reason I use the weasel word of usually is because as of 2007 we're only talking about a 1.6x linear format difference among consumer (under $9,000) DSLRs. In film, with a 2x linear difference from one format to the next, the crappiest lens on the next bigger format always smokes the very best lens on the next smaller format. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/20/2013 2:35 AM, Darren Addy wrote: In short, the Pentax flagship cameras meet or exceed my expectations right now and a full frame doesn't do a lot for me other than let me proclaim that I have a full frame camera. Very well said, Darren. I totally agree... Now, not answering you directly, but rather to a topic question: In fact, for me Pentax DSLRs such as K-5 exceed my expectations and abilities in such a manner that by now I shoot exclusively with Ricoh GXR-M module with or without K-mount adapter. I should say that A 50/1.2 is one fine lens on that camera body and it is not as big or heavy... Additionally, Nokton 40/1.4 is even so much smaller and lighter making Ricoh GXR-M with it pretty much a perfect camera for me - in terms of size, ergonomics vs price, convenience vs picture quality that I am able to get from it. In the past I was rather strong proponent of (Pentax) FF, but I have changed my mind. I don't think that I need the added bulk of FF camera (it ain't gonna be small, at least by now) and added bulk of RAW files from it - 24 MP RAW files aren't small... I may benefit some things such as AOV or DOF, but it is far less critical that I thought it might be... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
On 5/20/2013 5:44 AM, J.C. O'Connell wrote: The simple physics is that if the FF sensor is 50% longer than the APSC sensor in both dimensions, the FF lens only needs to provide 2/3 the resolution of the APSC lens to match the overall system resolution. If the FF lens approaches the quality of the APSC lens, then a near doubling of system resolution can be achieved. What this means in real world terms is that you dont need super world class lenses on FF to get great results, unlike with APCS sized sensors. JC, consider this: 36 MP of Nikon D800 is more than twice the 16 MP of Pentax K-5 or Nikon D7000. Therefore your FF Nikkors ought to be as good as they are on your APS-C D7000 in terms of spatial resolution. Consider further, that it stands to reason that the next generation of FF sensors will have even more pixels in them. I vaguely (sorry :-( ) recall rumors of next Canon FF DSLR flagship having in excess of 40 MP. Therefore on FF your lenses actually have to be even better in this regard than they were on current APS-C cameras. So in theory you're right, but it would seem to me that technology would soon enough overtake your theory, in a manner of speaking. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
In Chicago we say maybe next year. :-) Christine On May 19, 2013, at 10:14 PM, Kenneth Waller kwal...@peoplepc.com wrote: Like the Brooklyn Dodgers said year after year when they had just lost the World Series - 'Wait till next year'. -Original Message- From: P.J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware? On 5/19/2013 4:21 PM, John Sessoms wrote: From: J.C. O'Connell Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? The latest seems to be the officially deemed FAKE mid-March 2013 rumor that Pentax would announce the K-3 using Sony's 24mp full-frame sensor. Instead we got 9 bold new colors for the K-30 (which BTW was no longer on display at Tiger Direct during my weekly music/computer store pilgrimage last week). Since then, all I'm aware of is the recurring generic rumor that Pentax will announce a Full Frame DSLR next year. The beauty being that the the rumor will always be fresh, there is always a next year... -- There are two kinds of computer users those who've experienced a hard drive failure, and those that will. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Pentax FF DSLR is vaporware?
Seriously, what is the latest rumours about FF Pentax dslr? -- J.C. O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
