Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
On 14.01.07, at 1:30 , Pål Jensen wrote: In addition, the Limited is far more durable finish wise; at least the silver one is anodized on metal whereas the FA* is just soft paint on soft plastic. What plastic? The only plastic parts in FA* 85/1.4 are aperture ring and distance scale window. Sorry, both caps are plastic too ;-) Yes, it may scratch more easily than Ltd, but it is a very solidly built lens. Cheers, Sylwek -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
On 14/01/07, Sylwester Pietrzyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What plastic? The only plastic parts in FA* 85/1.4 are aperture ring and distance scale window. Sorry, both caps are plastic too ;-) Yes, it may scratch more easily than Ltd, but it is a very solidly built lens. Its body is cast alloy, scratches penetrating to the metal appear quite dull and the metal is in fact quite brittle (I've seen how it breaks). I'd bet that the LTD lens is more able to take a beating though Alan seems less than enamored by the slop in the plastic bearings. My 31mm LTD took quite a knock, I landed with a great deal of my weight on it and bent in the hood but the lens was otherwise unharmed. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
On 13.01.07, at 1:34 , Tim Øsleby wrote: We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? It is possible as FA* has internal (rear to be exact) focusing and in Ltd camera must move whole front barrel with glass which is additionally dampened for nice manual focus feel. Here is another advantage of FA* - nothing moves during AF under your fingers - AF/MF clutch ensures this and front of the lens stands still during focusing contrary to Ltd. Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. It is built like a tank, although painting is rather prone to scratches acording to long time users (I've had mine for one year - no scratches so far, but I generally take care for my equipment) - otherwise it should withstand tough conditions. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? Some people from film era have been talking about this. However I've found FA* to be a great performer on digital, no matter if close or far focusing distance. Independent tests using DXO analyzer has only proved this: http://www.pictchallenge-archives.net/TESTNUM/BxuREV7.html as a matter of fact it is as sharp as one of the sharpest pentax lenses ever - FA 50/2.8 macro and undoubtly better than very highly regarded FA 35/2(!) So basically I'm asking for advise for a sympatric Pentax guy. Take it away Sam... All in all tough choice :-) These two lenses are from two different worlds, each has its own advantages and disadvantages. I would choose the one my heart beat rate is faster for ;-) Cheers, Sylwek -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
K.Takeshita wrote: 85 is of course the gem of pentax lenses but when I got a 77, I was beginning to find that use of 85 was not as versatile as 77 could. It all depends on how your friend intends to use it. If his nephew is young (small?) and active, 85 is unwieldy. Azlso on K10D, it is no longer a mid tele. F1.4 speed is excellent for low light shooting or if he wants good I cannot comment on 85, but I find FA 50/1.4 coupled with K10D a great photographic tool for indoor portraiture of my (young) children. It is small and versatile, AF is pretty fast. I'm also going to try 77 Ltd in the same role (just ordered it from BH). B. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Tim wrote: Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? REPLY: I've owned both the FA* 85/1.4 and the 77 Limited. The FA* is the only FA* lens that didn't meet my standards optically. I found it to be poor performer at infinity distance (but great at close distances) to such an extent that I sended it to Pål at Pentax Norway. He said it was identical to his sample...I sold it cheaply to a PDML member who was very happy with it so there you go... In addition, the Limited is far more durable finish wise; at least the silver one is anodized on metal whereas the FA* is just soft paint on soft plastic. The FA* scratches incredibly easily and all my FA* lenses looks like shit from heavy outdoor use. All my Limited lenses look like new with the same usage. I feel that the FA* is primarily a portrait lens whereas the Limited is an all rounder with state of the art optical performance in all respects. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Thank you Pål. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pål Jensen Sent: 14. januar 2007 01:31 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85 Tim wrote: Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? REPLY: I've owned both the FA* 85/1.4 and the 77 Limited. The FA* is the only FA* lens that didn't meet my standards optically. I found it to be poor performer at infinity distance (but great at close distances) to such an extent that I sended it to Pål at Pentax Norway. He said it was identical to his sample...I sold it cheaply to a PDML member who was very happy with it so there you go... In addition, the Limited is far more durable finish wise; at least the silver one is anodized on metal whereas the FA* is just soft paint on soft plastic. The FA* scratches incredibly easily and all my FA* lenses looks like shit from heavy outdoor use. All my Limited lenses look like new with the same usage. I feel that the FA* is primarily a portrait lens whereas the Limited is an all rounder with state of the art optical performance in all respects. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Thank you Pål. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pål Jensen Sent: 14. januar 2007 01:31 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85 Tim wrote: Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? REPLY: I've owned both the FA* 85/1.4 and the 77 Limited. The FA* is the only FA* lens that didn't meet my standards optically. I found it to be poor performer at infinity distance (but great at close distances) to such an extent that I sended it to Pål at Pentax Norway. He said it was identical to his sample...I sold it cheaply to a PDML member who was very happy with it so there you go... In addition, the Limited is far more durable finish wise; at least the silver one is anodized on metal whereas the FA* is just soft paint on soft plastic. The FA* scratches incredibly easily and all my FA* lenses looks like shit from heavy outdoor use. All my Limited lenses look like new with the same usage. I feel that the FA* is primarily a portrait lens whereas the Limited is an all rounder with state of the art optical performance in all respects. Pål -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Subject: RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85 Tim wrote: Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? The 77 is definitely a nice piece of jewelry, but it is a well built and tough little lens as well. I own both the black and silver finish versions. both finishes are equally and very scratch resistent. Personally, I'd trust a Limited to take a knocking around over an FA or FA* lens. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
The FA* is certainly a better buy at the same price. Paul On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:34 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: I had an interesting visit today. Not the mailman with the K10, but a chap who has the dilemma in the subject line. So to make himself even more confused he fondled my dear FA*. We had a couple of hours of fun talking Pentax in general and short telephoto. He showed me a couple of his preciousness, and I showed him mine. It was quite cosy really. And guys, don't get any ideas, I'm talking photographic tools. He has been offered a demo FA* for near exactly the same amount as the Ltd. What he wants a fast short telephoto for is mainly to shoot his nephews. He has a Sigma 70-200/2,8 but his experience is that AF is to slow, and off course it back focuses. He was also talking about using it in a medium weight trekking kit. We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? So basically I'm asking for advise for a sympatric Pentax guy. Take it away Sam... Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Thank you Paul for your strait forward reply. As I thought, but I (and him) needs second opinions. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Stenquist Sent: 13. januar 2007 01:54 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85 The FA* is certainly a better buy at the same price. Paul On Jan 12, 2007, at 7:34 PM, Tim Øsleby wrote: I had an interesting visit today. Not the mailman with the K10, but a chap who has the dilemma in the subject line. So to make himself even more confused he fondled my dear FA*. We had a couple of hours of fun talking Pentax in general and short telephoto. He showed me a couple of his preciousness, and I showed him mine. It was quite cosy really. And guys, don't get any ideas, I'm talking photographic tools. He has been offered a demo FA* for near exactly the same amount as the Ltd. What he wants a fast short telephoto for is mainly to shoot his nephews. He has a Sigma 70-200/2,8 but his experience is that AF is to slow, and off course it back focuses. He was also talking about using it in a medium weight trekking kit. We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? So basically I'm asking for advise for a sympatric Pentax guy. Take it away Sam... Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Hi Tim, My comments interspersed below. Ken On 1/12/07 7:34 PM, Tim Øsleby, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And guys, don't get any ideas, I'm talking photographic tools. Yes, I was preparing for what might be coming :-). Whew, you clarified it. He has been offered a demo FA* for near exactly the same amount as the Ltd. What he wants a fast short telephoto for is mainly to shoot his nephews. He has a Sigma 70-200/2,8 but his experience is that AF is to slow, and off course it back focuses. He was also talking about using it in a medium weight trekking kit. At one time, I had both lenses and the same dilemma. Eventually, I sold 85 and kept 77. 85 is of course the gem of pentax lenses but when I got a 77, I was beginning to find that use of 85 was not as versatile as 77 could. It all depends on how your friend intends to use it. If his nephew is young (small?) and active, 85 is unwieldy. Azlso on K10D, it is no longer a mid tele. F1.4 speed is excellent for low light shooting or if he wants good bokeh in portrait, nothing can come close to 85, but it's a chunk of glass, heavy and rather intimidating particularly with its huge hood. Advantage of 85mm FL diminish on K10D. If he wants fast but nimble performance, FA50/1.4 might be so much easier to use. 85 at wide open has such a shallow DOF, it is indeed excels in portraiture with a tripod. At 1.4, just a slight body sway back and forth would change the focal plane, depending on the distance. We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? People say that Limited in general has a bit slower AF performance. I never measured it, but in my usage, I really did not feel much of a difference. Limiteds are made with somewhat heavier focus resistance as AF lenses probably to give nicer manual focus feeling. I used to use it on PZ-1P that had stronger AF motor, and aside from jarring noise, it was not particularly slow. On K10D with powerful motor, it should not be an issue. He would not use it for motor racing etc, would he? Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. True, but 85 also is a gem and I was careful not abusing it. Advantage of 77 is its compact size, much lighter weight and useful for various snapping too. I just have a penchant for a compact package but k10D with 85 would be large and heavy. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? I do not know what 'close range' means but it is better suited for static portrait in studio etc, although any lens could be sued in any other purpose at the hands of the skilled. I used to take flower arrangement' by my wife and it was the best lens for that purpose, controlled DOF and under natural light etc. Re speed, there is only half a stop difference between the two, and with K10D, freely adjustable ISO setting coupled with SR would diminish the difference. Just my $.02 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
When the 77 limited first came out, some testing was done with it and the FA*85. Several of us (me included) had the FA*85. In a nutshell, the FA*85 seems to be a slightly better portrait lens - bokeh and focus point seem more tuned for head/shoulders type shots. But at distance (30-infinity), the FA*85 is not very sharp at all until you stop down past f8. The 77 was still a fine portrait lens, but a much better general purpose lens. So the wisdom from that is if you are looking for just a portrait lens, the FA*85 is a great choice. If you are looking for a general purpose lens that also doubles as a good portrait lens, the 77 is the way to go. HTH, Bruce Friday, January 12, 2007, 4:34:55 PM, you wrote: TØ I had an interesting visit today. Not the mailman with the K10, but a chap TØ who has the dilemma in the subject line. So to make himself even more TØ confused he fondled my dear FA*. We had a couple of hours of fun talking TØ Pentax in general and short telephoto. He showed me a couple of his TØ preciousness, and I showed him mine. It was quite cosy really. And guys, TØ don't get any ideas, I'm talking photographic tools. TØ He has been offered a demo FA* for near exactly the same amount as the Ltd. TØ What he wants a fast short telephoto for is mainly to shoot his nephews. He TØ has a Sigma 70-200/2,8 but his experience is that AF is to slow, and off TØ course it back focuses. He was also talking about using it in a medium TØ weight trekking kit. TØ We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy TØ a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was TØ leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way TØ slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? TØ Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of TØ jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it TØ outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the TØ FA* begs for real life use. TØ He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on TØ this? TØ So basically I'm asking for advise for a sympatric Pentax guy. Take it away TØ Sam... TØ Tim TØ Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Thank you Ken. I will forward all answers to him. Your input is appreciated, especially since you actually have owned them both. I love the FA* way too much to be objective. That's why I decided to ask the list. I don't believe he expects to use it wide open when shooting the wild ones. He sounded fully aware of the consequences (read limitations) of the extreme shallow DOF. I agree on the hood. It is oversized, and it is definitely not suited for the 1,5 crop. He already have a FA 50/1,4. He said he found it a bit short for this use. That's why he already has tested the Sigma. This he found to bulky and having back focus issues. I tried talking him into using manual focus, and prefocusing. But he does want a lens that can handle the situation with AF. Whatever he decides, I hope he is not having too high expectations towards AF performance. I've been there myself. Very frustrating. Tim Mostly harmless (just plain Norwegian) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of K.Takeshita Sent: 13. januar 2007 02:36 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85 Hi Tim, My comments interspersed below. Ken On 1/12/07 7:34 PM, Tim Øsleby, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And guys, don't get any ideas, I'm talking photographic tools. Yes, I was preparing for what might be coming :-). Whew, you clarified it. He has been offered a demo FA* for near exactly the same amount as the Ltd. What he wants a fast short telephoto for is mainly to shoot his nephews. He has a Sigma 70-200/2,8 but his experience is that AF is to slow, and off course it back focuses. He was also talking about using it in a medium weight trekking kit. At one time, I had both lenses and the same dilemma. Eventually, I sold 85 and kept 77. 85 is of course the gem of pentax lenses but when I got a 77, I was beginning to find that use of 85 was not as versatile as 77 could. It all depends on how your friend intends to use it. If his nephew is young (small?) and active, 85 is unwieldy. Azlso on K10D, it is no longer a mid tele. F1.4 speed is excellent for low light shooting or if he wants good bokeh in portrait, nothing can come close to 85, but it's a chunk of glass, heavy and rather intimidating particularly with its huge hood. Advantage of 85mm FL diminish on K10D. If he wants fast but nimble performance, FA50/1.4 might be so much easier to use. 85 at wide open has such a shallow DOF, it is indeed excels in portraiture with a tripod. At 1.4, just a slight body sway back and forth would change the focal plane, depending on the distance. We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? People say that Limited in general has a bit slower AF performance. I never measured it, but in my usage, I really did not feel much of a difference. Limiteds are made with somewhat heavier focus resistance as AF lenses probably to give nicer manual focus feeling. I used to use it on PZ-1P that had stronger AF motor, and aside from jarring noise, it was not particularly slow. On K10D with powerful motor, it should not be an issue. He would not use it for motor racing etc, would he? Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. True, but 85 also is a gem and I was careful not abusing it. Advantage of 77 is its compact size, much lighter weight and useful for various snapping too. I just have a penchant for a compact package but k10D with 85 would be large and heavy. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? I do not know what 'close range' means but it is better suited for static portrait in studio etc, although any lens could be sued in any other purpose at the hands of the skilled. I used to take flower arrangement' by my wife and it was the best lens for that purpose, controlled DOF and under natural light etc. Re speed, there is only half a stop difference between the two, and with K10D, freely adjustable ISO setting coupled with SR would diminish the difference. Just my $.02 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: 77 Ltd. vs FA*85
Hi! He has been offered a demo FA* for near exactly the same amount as the Ltd. What he wants a fast short telephoto for is mainly to shoot his nephews. He has a Sigma 70-200/2,8 but his experience is that AF is to slow, and off course it back focuses. He was also talking about using it in a medium weight trekking kit. We found the FA* to focus faster than the Sigma. He is also planning to buy a K10, so AF speed will probably be all right. And that is one reason he was leaning towards the FA*, because the seller had told him the Ltd has way slower AF performance. Can someone confirm this? Another reason for preferring FA* was that he found the Ltd more a piece of jewellery. He expected he would feel a bit uncomfortable with using it outdoor under rough conditions. I can sympathise with this. The built of the FA* begs for real life use. He asked me if I felt the FA* to be a close range lens. Any comments on this? So basically I'm asking for advise for a sympatric Pentax guy. Take it away Sam... I have 77 Ltd (as you know) and I only *saw* FA* 85/1.4, never touched one. Well, I did touch the FrankenCam with FrankenLens attached, thanks to Cotty, but I think it was A* 85/1.4. I've been taking my 77 Ltd to various places and it is still doing very well ;-). I must say that FA* looks and A* feels very big. I vote for 77. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
