Re: auto bellows + LX
At 09:39 PM 12/14/2002 +0200, Feroze wrote: Is there more than one Pentax bellows? Yes, In K mount there are three, although I don't think that there's any real difference between the M and A versions. The MZS manual says that Auto Bellows A cannot be used with this camera. There is one on a local auction site for ZAR600 (about U$D60) He also has a LX, 3 Finders and a 55mm f1.8 lens plus filter for ZAR 1500 (about USD150) Are both these worth the price??? Yes, if they are in relatively good condition. Feroze
Re: auto bellows + LX
It means that your bellows is going to be 10 mm farther away the film plane than it would be without the tube. In other words the bellows will stop short by 10 mm at the closest distance to the film plane and go out 10 mm further than before. So unless you have, for some reason such as the size of your subject, to work from a fixed position, it won't make any difference at all. Don Dr E D F Williams http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery Updated: March 30, 2002 - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:45 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX - Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- It looks like you need about 10mm of clearance to be able to mount the bellows. How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Not a clue, too many variables. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
In practice, it all means that you would need a small extension tube (or set of tubes) to use the Auto Bellows with the MZ-S. The Auto Bellows allows for a minimum extension of about 37mm. Another 8 mm would make that 45 mm. They provide a maximum extension of about 163 mm, and the additional 8 mm you would add are no problem here... just bring the bellows in the extra 8 mm. The only remaining question is whether the MZ-S baseplate is big enough to get caught on the bottom rail of the Auto Bellows. This would limit some of the functionality of the bellows, which is different from working with a lens and extension tubes. With a lens and extension tubes, you use your feet/body to move in and out, back and forth while you focus until you have the image size (magnification), framing, and focus you want. It is a two part process, because anytime you turn the macro lens to focus it, you also change the magnification you are getting. So you do a little dance until everything is just right. With the bellows, you use the back (camera end) adjustment to move the film plane back and forth to focus. This doesn't change the magnification/image size, it just brings it into focus. You still do some of the gross moves in/out, back and forth to rough things out, but you set the image size and composition by fixing/finding the subject to front lens distance. Once you have that established, you just dial in the back end of the bellows until the focus is right. If you want to focus 1 mm deeper into the object, you fine adjust the whole rail on the tripod (lens - bellows - camera) by 1 mm closer to the subject. The image size (magnification) and framing stay the same. There are probably some combinations of lens - extension - magnification which are lost when you can't do 37 mm to 45 mm of bellows extension, but I don't think they amount to much. Apologies for the long winded explanation. Regards, Bob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It means that your bellows is going to be 10 mm farther away the film plane than it would be without the tube. In other words the bellows will stop short by 10 mm at the closest distance to the film plane and go out 10 mm further than before. So unless you have, for some reason such as the size of your subject, to work from a fixed position, it won't make any difference at all. Don snip - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip - Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- It looks like you need about 10mm of clearance to be able to mount the bellows. How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Not a clue, too many variables. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
Pretty daft of Pentax designers if you ask me, I wonder what else dosn't fit on this camera don't they realise there are no 3rd party stuff for Pentax? Feroze : - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 2:53 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX - Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Just add a small extension tube (to gain clearance) between the bellows and the camera? That should do it. I figure the #1 tube from the Auto Extension Tube set should do it. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Pretty daft of Pentax designers if you ask me, I wonder what else dosn't fit on this camera don't they realise there are no 3rd party stuff for Pentax? Maybe they figure that with the advent of long helicoid macro lenses, no one uses bellows anymore. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX On Saturday, December 14, 2002, at 05:45 PM, William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- It looks like you need about 10mm of clearance to be able to mount the bellows. How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Not a clue, too many variables. William Robb Feroze, It's your bellows, you rack it out as much as you want. If the extension bothers you, subtract the length of the extension from the total extension of the bellows. Neither the film nor the lens will care. Dan Scott Hi Dan, So the distance from the lens to camera has no effect on the image quality on the size of the object on the film? Feroze
Re: auto bellows + LX
Hi Doc, The problem was that the MZS dosn't work with the Auto Bellows A, there isn't enough clearance around the mount for you to turn the camera when fitting it on, I have no reason to ensure exact life size macro shots, just trying to get the bellows on the camera Feroze - Original Message - From: Dr E D F Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX It means that your bellows is going to be 10 mm farther away the film plane than it would be without the tube. In other words the bellows will stop short by 10 mm at the closest distance to the film plane and go out 10 mm further than before. So unless you have, for some reason such as the size of your subject, to work from a fixed position, it won't make any difference at all. Don Dr E D F Williams http://personal.inet.fi/cool/don.williams Author's Web Site and Photo Gallery Updated: March 30, 2002 - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:45 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX - Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- It looks like you need about 10mm of clearance to be able to mount the bellows. How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Not a clue, too many variables. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
If anyone needs to use a small extension tube, note this: the Pentax K tube set is cheaper than the KA, and the smallest tube on the K set is smaller than the smallest tube on the KA set. The K tubes do not couple aperature, but my guess is this doesn't matter on a bellows. -Lon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In practice, it all means that you would need a small extension tube (or set of tubes) to use the Auto Bellows with the MZ-S. The Auto Bellows allows for a minimum extension of about 37mm. Another 8 mm would make that 45 mm. They provide a maximum extension of about 163 mm, and the additional 8 mm you would add are no problem here... just bring the bellows in the extra 8 mm. The only remaining question is whether the MZ-S baseplate is big enough to get caught on the bottom rail of the Auto Bellows. This would limit some of the functionality of the bellows, which is different from working with a lens and extension tubes. With a lens and extension tubes, you use your feet/body to move in and out, back and forth while you focus until you have the image size (magnification), framing, and focus you want. It is a two part process, because anytime you turn the macro lens to focus it, you also change the magnification you are getting. So you do a little dance until everything is just right. With the bellows, you use the back (camera end) adjustment to move the film plane back and forth to focus. This doesn't change the magnification/image size, it just brings it into focus. You still do some of the gross moves in/out, back and forth to rough things out, but you set the image size and composition by fixing/finding the subject to front lens distance. Once you have that established, you just dial in the back end of the bellows until the focus is right. If you want to focus 1 mm deeper into the object, you fine adjust the whole rail on the tripod (lens - bellows - camera) by 1 mm closer to the subject. The image size (magnification) and framing stay the same. There are probably some combinations of lens - extension - magnification which are lost when you can't do 37 mm to 45 mm of bellows extension, but I don't think they amount to much. Apologies for the long winded explanation. Regards, Bob S. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It means that your bellows is going to be 10 mm farther away the film plane than it would be without the tube. In other words the bellows will stop short by 10 mm at the closest distance to the film plane and go out 10 mm further than before. So unless you have, for some reason such as the size of your subject, to work from a fixed position, it won't make any difference at all. Don snip - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip - Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- It looks like you need about 10mm of clearance to be able to mount the bellows. How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Not a clue, too many variables. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Wouldn't I then from this and your previous comment make my life so much easier by just buying a 100mm macro. Got a fairly decent price but much much more than the bellows but still within my price range? I can still use that lens for other photography? Well, yes. Bellows are nice when you want to go larger than life size on the film though. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
On Sunday, December 15, 2002, at 12:50 PM, Feroze Kistan wrote: - Original Message - From: Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:34 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Feroze, It's your bellows, you rack it out as much as you want. If the extension bothers you, subtract the length of the extension from the total extension of the bellows. Neither the film nor the lens will care. Dan Scott Hi Dan, So the distance from the lens to camera has no effect on the image quality on the size of the object on the film? Feroze The bellows is just an adjustable extension tube. There is a minimum length that it will add to any lens, where the bellows is compressed as tightly as it can be. Adding a 10mm extension tube to the bellows adds 10mm to this minimum length. Other than that, everything is the same-- if your 50mm lens is 150mm from you camera there is no difference between 10mm of extension tube + 140mm of bellows or 150mm of bellows, the image will be the same with either setup. Hth, Dan Scott
Re: auto bellows + LX
Is there more than one Pentax bellows? The MZS manual says that Auto Bellows A cannot be used with this camera. There is one on a local auction site for ZAR600 (about U$D60) He also has a LX, 3 Finders and a 55mm f1.8 lens plus filter for ZAR 1500 (about USD150) Are both these worth the price??? Feroze Good price for an Auto-bellows A. I would also like to know why it does not fit the latest Pentax body. The price for the LX is very low. If you want an LX, go for it. You'll probably have to pay for a CLA, so 150 US $ plus shipping both ways but you can sell the two extra finders for this amount depending on their type. You'll end up with a perfectly working LX for about 150$. They sell, after CLA, 400$ to 600$ depending on cosmetics and year of manufacture. I could be interested to buy a finder from you if it is the type I'm looking for. Andre --
Re: auto bellows + LX
Hi Andre, All the manual says is Note that Auto bellows A cannot be used with this camera because it cannot be fitted to it. Maybe the flash is too close to the mount I been to Boz's site, but I still can't figure out which one Pentax is talking about. How many bellows are there. I want the one where you attach a lens to the end, not the slide copier I keep on seeing He has these 2 finders - 2x FA-1 Eye-Level Finders(Standard), 1x FA-2 Eye-Level Finder He lives about 450km's from me so he'll have to post it. To have a CLA done for me is simple, I take it to my buddy, Pentax sends a driver to him in the morning, they quote me in 24hrs and the driver brings it back, I only pay for parts labour , but if i'm in a real hurry I can drop it off myself its about 25mins drive from my house - so who hates me :) I'm thinking of buying LX, might be a better back than the K1000 SE I got. What will sell after the CLA for $400, the LX or the finders? Feroze - Original Message - From: Andre Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 10:19 PM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Is there more than one Pentax bellows? The MZS manual says that Auto Bellows A cannot be used with this camera. There is one on a local auction site for ZAR600 (about U$D60) He also has a LX, 3 Finders and a 55mm f1.8 lens plus filter for ZAR 1500 (about USD150) Are both these worth the price??? Feroze Good price for an Auto-bellows A. I would also like to know why it does not fit the latest Pentax body. The price for the LX is very low. If you want an LX, go for it. You'll probably have to pay for a CLA, so 150 US $ plus shipping both ways but you can sell the two extra finders for this amount depending on their type. You'll end up with a perfectly working LX for about 150$. They sell, after CLA, 400$ to 600$ depending on cosmetics and year of manufacture. I could be interested to buy a finder from you if it is the type I'm looking for. Andre --
Re: auto bellows + LX
On Saturday, December 14, 2002, at 02:19 PM, Andre Langevin wrote: Good price for an Auto-bellows A. I would also like to know why it does not fit the latest Pentax body. Might not be rotatable due to the handgrip. Dan Scott
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Hi Andre, All the manual says is Note that Auto bellows A cannot be used with this camera because it cannot be fitted to it. It looks like the MZ-S prism extends out past the lens mount. I would bet that the bellows is too big to mount underneath that protrusion. I suspect that you could mount a short extension tube to the camera, then mount the bellows to it though. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
Hi Andre, All the manual says is Note that Auto bellows A cannot be used with this camera because it cannot be fitted to it. How many bellows are there I think K, M and A, but maybe only two. Very very similar. They look the same to me. Except for the extra contacts (A-model). I want the one where you attach a lens to the end, not the slide copier I keep on seeing Yes, slide copiers are rarely needed (unless you do want to copy slides, and even then, there are other means). He has these 2 finders - 2x FA-1 Eye-Level Finders(Standard), 1x FA-2 Eye-Level Finder I would be interested in the FA-2 unless you would like to keep this low-profile no-hot-shoe finder. And I have a bumped FA-1 and should probably look for a replacement one unless I learn the casing alone can be bought new at Pentax. He lives about 450km's from me so he'll have to post it. To have a CLA done for me is simple, If it is a simple story, great. It is really better if the repairman has some experience with the LX (some pieces besides the mirror box have to be replaced, so the camera has to be dismantled and it is a difficult camera to... remantle... Many things packed in a small body.) Where do you live? I'm thinking of buying LX, might be a better back than the K1000 SE I got. What will sell after the CLA for $400, the LX or the finders? The LX. The regular finders may sell for 50$ maybe more for the FA-2, PDML should be able to confirm price range. Actually you may have an LX for about the price of a K1000 SE (at least here, where the K1000 are sold like hot buns (oh no, what have I said...), I mean hot b*ns. Andre --
Re: auto bellows + LX
Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Feroze - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:13 PM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX - Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Hi Andre, All the manual says is Note that Auto bellows A cannot be used with this camera because it cannot be fitted to it. It looks like the MZ-S prism extends out past the lens mount. I would bet that the bellows is too big to mount underneath that protrusion. I suspect that you could mount a short extension tube to the camera, then mount the bellows to it though. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
The MZ-S camera body gets into the way with the bellows. Insert an extension ring between bellows and camera body. Alexander Feroze Kistan wrote : --- Hi Andre, All the manual says is Note that Auto bellows A cannot be used with this camera because it cannot be fitted to it. Maybe the flash is too close to the mount I been to Boz's site, but I still can't figure out which one Pentax is talking about. How many bellows are there. I want the one where you attach a lens to the end, not the slide copier I keep on seeing __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: auto bellows + LX
How many bellows are there I think K, M and A, but maybe only two. Very very similar. They look the same to me. Except for the extra contacts (A-model). So if he has the right one it should work, sides it'll work on my other camera and I never seen anybody use AF on a macro shot anyway He has these 2 finders - 2x FA-1 Eye-Level Finders(Standard), 1x FA-2 Eye-Level Finder I would be interested in the FA-2 unless you would like to keep this low-profile no-hot-shoe finder. And I have a bumped FA-1 and should probably look for a replacement one unless I learn the casing alone can be bought new at Pentax. Well if the sale goes through you have first dibs on it, its an online auction He lives about 450km's from me so he'll have to post it. To have a CLA done for me is simple, If it is a simple story, great. It is really better if the repairman has some experience with the LX (some pieces besides the mirror box have to be replaced, so the camera has to be dismantled and it is a difficult camera to... remantle... Many things packed in a small body.) Where do you live? Well I don't know the repairman, it goes directly to the South African Pentax Distributors, which is where I live, Johannesburg, South Africa. If you live in Manitoba, Canada sending it through wont be a problem, friends travel back and forth every 3 months Actually you may have an LX for about the price of a K1000 SE (at least here, where the K1000 are sold like hot buns (oh no, what have I said...), I mean hot b*ns. Cant sell that K1000, sentimental value, just sold my Z70 2 lenses and already I'm missing them :) I need a manual backup which is the better camera? feroze Andre --
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Feroze Kistan Hi William, Theres about 8mm btw the lents mount outer edge and the bottom edge of the protrusion- It looks like you need about 10mm of clearance to be able to mount the bellows. How would the size of the image be affected by that combination? Not a clue, too many variables. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
I know littla about the MZS, but what on earth would prevent Auto Bellows A from being used with this camera? Regards, Bob Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! - Benjamin Franklin From: Feroze Kistan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there more than one Pentax bellows? The MZS manual says that Auto Bellows A cannot be used with this camera. There is one on a local auction site for ZAR600 (about U$D60) He also has a LX, 3 Finders and a 55mm f1.8 lens plus filter for ZAR 1500 (about USD150) Are both these worth the price???
Re: auto bellows + LX
Just add a small extension tube (to gain clearance) between the bellows and the camera? Regards, Bob Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! - Benjamin Franklin From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Feroze Kistan Hi Andre, All the manual says is Note that Auto bellows A cannot be used with this camera because it cannot be fitted to it. It looks like the MZ-S prism extends out past the lens mount. I would bet that the bellows is too big to mount underneath that protrusion. I suspect that you could mount a short extension tube to the camera, then mount the bellows to it though.
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX I know littla about the MZS, but what on earth would prevent Auto Bellows A from being used with this camera? It looks like the prism housing extends forwards over the lens mount and won't allow enough clearance for the bellows to mount. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
- Original Message - From: Bob Blakely Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX Just add a small extension tube (to gain clearance) between the bellows and the camera? That should do it. I figure the #1 tube from the Auto Extension Tube set should do it. William Robb
Re: auto bellows + LX
Truth be told, I don't use most of the stuff on my cameras, I bought the MZS because I wanted it not needed it. One of my nikon buddies had a F3 with a motordrive which if I remember properly hit 13fps, he never used it once. I would like the grid screen though. Don't really need a fast camera most of my packshot subjects don't really move that fast :) I do like the way it fits in my hand though, everything I need to reach with one hand I can, something I couldn't do with the F4. Best part is it takes pictures, all I really worry about in the final cut Feroze - Original Message - From: Andre Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:46 AM Subject: Re: auto bellows + LX be used with a 5 images per second motor, with other finders (some are really nice), etc... Andre Oh sweet, thats twice as fast as the MZS..): True that 2,5 i/sec is sufficient for most of us. But 5 is better sometimes. What else...more screens, last pro camera Pentax made. feroze Screens are not a big issue. Taking pictures in almost complete obscurity is. Not even Leica R8 goes that far (even if their publicity says it is the best camera on that regard, maybe because LX was considered out of production when and where the publicity ran). The finders are something if you do certain types of photography. Two are worth mentionning (for me): FE-1 loupe for macro and the Sports Finder (FB-1 + FC-1) for all kinds of picture taking asking for unconfortable positionning. A real mirror lock-up. Two TTL sockets on the camera. Arguably details... I know MZS has many many advantages... Hard to compare 2 very juicy but different fruits. Andre --
