RE: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
I was just reading over some of the previous logo discussion and came up with an idea for combining logos - i.e. Rakudo + Parrot. We could have a speech bubble coming from the Parrot's beak with the Rakudo logo (gimel?) inside. Just a simple idea, but I thought it would provide a good way to tie in the parrot logo with various languages implemented on Parrot. Sits nicely with the Speaks you language tag line. What do people think? Ross. -- Ross Kendall web developer consultant http://rosskendall.com
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
On Fri, 6 Mar 2009, Darren Duncan wrote: Ross Kendall wrote: I was just reading over some of the previous logo discussion and came up with an idea for combining logos - i.e. Rakudo + Parrot. We could have a speech bubble coming from the Parrot's beak with the Rakudo logo (gimel?) inside. Just a simple idea, but I thought it would provide a good way to tie in the parrot logo with various languages implemented on Parrot. Sits nicely with the Speaks you language tag line. What do people think? I think that idea has promise, and I would be happy with it sans something better coming along. -- Darren Duncan I think that the gimel should be the Perl 6 logo, rather than the Rakudo one. Since Rakudo is Perl 6 on Parrot, the combined logo would still be appropriate. But this would mean that eg. the compiler elf might have the logo of an elf holding a gimel, and SMOP might have a mildewed gimel, or a standard mop and a gimel crossed, or argent, a gimel gules, or something :). :) - | Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is,| | E-mail: wayl...@wayland.id.au| I am | - BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK Version 3.12 GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- PE(+) Y+++ PGP-+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI D G+ e++ h! y- -END GEEK CODE BLOCK-
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
Justin Simoni You may have to be careful about the camel imagery; I think O'Reilly have a legal lock on camel-related graphics in association with Perl. Richard Dice can probably give you more details. -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
Thank you for pointing this out. This is a reality I've lived with for so long that it didn't even cross my mind to caution others (who haven't been so tied up in the legal and organizational aspects of Perl) when this thread appeared. O'Reilly is the only organization that can have trademarks that incorporate a camel in reference to the Perl programming language. This statement is a first-order approximation, but damn good one. Basically, the message is: stay away from using camels. Cheers, - Richard On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:12 PM, a...@ippimail.com wrote: Justin Simoni You may have to be careful about the camel imagery; I think O'Reilly have a legal lock on camel-related graphics in association with Perl. Richard Dice can probably give you more details. -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com
A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
Hello everyone, A few weeks ago, probably more than I want to admit (but here! See! My Notes! I've been up to something!), there was one of those, OMG! Perl is going to DIE! threads, somewhere and the, Well, do something about it call came out, and I sort of replied, well, alright and gave my open ended hand to some design work. Moritz was one of the first to guide it to the idea of making a logo for Rakudo Perl 6 - as there's nothing yet (really) available. I thought that would be a neat project and scratch some of my person itches. A slight background on me: I'm that guy: http://xkcd.com/519/ (Although, there should be two more columns for, Skateboarding and, Rock Climbing in there). I really started working with Perl during a internship in college which started me in a full time job doin' the stuff, which got me to where I am today: just working for myself. In all of that, I also managed to get through Art School (guess what paid for *that*!). A lot of my work deals with language and text, writing and communication. Some of my work bordered on generative work, but most of it stayed on the canvas, as I wanted to go to school to learn to paint. Anyways, I've always wanted to help out on larger-than-myself Perl projects, but, although I think my perl-fu is, well, alright - it's not wizard-like. But! I think an interesting niche that I could fill is as someone who, gets Perl and it's wonderful and varied culture and also, gets visual communication and all that. I am a firm believer that a healthy community is one full of diversity and successful projects come not out of one genius, but of many just normal people, and that's me: just a normal person. Here's some notes I've collected about what people have said Rakudo Perl 6 is, which is a good baseline on what a logo should try to reflect and communicate: Rakudo Perl is: Perl 6 on Parrot Rakudo as a *implementation* of a *specification* Rakuda-do (Japanese): Way of the Camel Rakudo (Japanese):Paradise Camels, Paradise/Oasis, etc. It's good visuals and it's easy to digest. Camels are mean and smelly close up, but we don't have to get all that close - it's good to remember they're also extremely useful and in some places, absolutely critical to ways of life. It also doesn't stray far from the original Perl 5 image of Camels and Pyramids and all that jazz. The Japanese lean on all this seems important too, perhaps to get a little more mindshare from the folks that find Ruby interesting and attractive (more on that in just a little bit) One of the main fears with this name, Rakudo Perl 6 - at least when it first came out, is that describing Rakudo Perl as, An implementation (one of possibly, many) of the Perl 6 Specification, built on top of the Parrot Virtual Machine, will leave people going, Huh?! I think this is a good reason as anything, to think of getting a visual representation of this, somewhat complicated idea out ASAP. It's interesting that Japanese Word(s) were chosen as the new name - it's grown on me - I like it. Japanese Art and Poetry has the idea of the, haiga and the, gō - which is sort of like a pen-name, but it changes if there's a change in the style of the artist during their career. You could think of, Rakudo as a new, haiga for Perl - at least the concept makes things clear to me: we've changed course, but it's still the same hand. I was also, incidentally, doing some research on the origins of the Latin alphabet - I'm very curious about languages in general - mostly how they're abused in media and popular culture, but also in learning new ones - I took a brief stint solo in France armed with a 5 week Free University course in French to see how well I could get along. Eye-opening. I happened upon the book, Mysteries of the Alphabet (Narc-Alain Ouknin - originally written *in* French) in the shelves of someone I was hanging out with. It's main thesis, really is the Latin/Greek alphabet started with something they term the, Proto-Sinaitic alphabet, which was created around the time the lost tribe of Israel was figuring itself out. Moses and all. One of the, well, the third letter in their alphabet is, gimmel, which comes from the word gamel, which, if you didn't guess already means, Camel! It looks either like the neck of a camel - or, perhaps it's hump. If you think of, gimmel as our, C you can sort of still see a hump of a camel, if you just turn the, C 90 degrees, clockwise. Early written languages like Proto-Sinaitic are sort of the beginning where pictograms that stood for what things looked like, where changed into a way of writing about an idea - a lot of these early letters still hold a lot of the original meanings. Hebrew, for instance still does and each character is rich in back history. I like the Proto- Sinaitic link, since it's less loaded
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 03:45:48AM -0700, Perl wrote: Moritz was one of the first to guide it to the idea of making a logo for Rakudo Perl 6 - as there's nothing yet (really) available. I thought that would be a neat project and scratch some of my person itches. It would be a very neat project. It will solve some immediate and pressing needs. Here's some notes I've collected about what people have said Rakudo Perl 6 is, which is a good baseline on what a logo should try to reflect and communicate: [...] I'll start with my summarized thoughts first, then a few specifics below. First, I totally agree that Rakudo Perl needs a logo, and the sooner we can get one to start using on our website (which we're now creating) and other materials, the better. So, your thoughts and ideas are quite welcome. Beyond that, I think your message has neatly captured many of the facets of what we're working with (and yes, there are a lot of facets). The message reminds me of some of Larry's State of the Onion addresses -- looking at many sides of the Perl (in this case Rakudo Perl 6) world. So, my primary comment is that I find myself very much in agreement with your proposal, and a strong hope that you'll continue on in this direction. I agree with the idea of the style guide and some simple elements that people can combine together in very expressive and beautiful ways. Indeed, it sounds very much like you're proposing an ideographic system for Rakudo Perl, where can combine graphic symbols for ideas together. That feels very Perlish and Rakudoish to me -- I like it. So, I'd say press on and let us see what you come up with. :-) Some other minor reflections on your post: One of the main fears with this name, Rakudo Perl 6 - at least when it first came out, is that describing Rakudo Perl as, An implementation (one of possibly, many) of the Perl 6 Specification, built on top of the Parrot Virtual Machine, will leave people going, Huh?! I think this is a good reason as anything, to think of getting a visual representation of this, somewhat complicated idea out ASAP. I agree fully about the need for a visual representation; as far as the name goes I'm hoping that people will think of Rakudo Perl in a manner to the way that we currently think of Strawberry Perl or Vanilla Perl. Taking a step back from this soup of ideas and thinking of a logo itself, it seems that it would help to produce something that's made of somewhat interlocking and inter-related pieces: Perl on Parrot has two separate pieces that come together and complete an idea. But there's other things that could take, Perl's place, so it's really, $x on Parrot It seems that if a logo would be made, we can modularize, say, that Parrot part and use it for other things - same with the Perl part, if you get into it. I can't really speak for what Parrot will want or need, as they already have a (very nice) logo. But having a symbol to represent Parrot in the system you propose would likely be very workable. What I really *really* need now is some feedback for any and all of the above research and braindump. My feedback is essentially Sounds fantastic! and I'm eager to see where it leads. If I can be of further help, please ask! Pm
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
On Fri, 2009-16-01 at 09:16 -0600, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: I agree fully about the need for a visual representation; as far as the name goes I'm hoping that people will think of Rakudo Perl in a manner to the way that we currently think of Strawberry Perl or Vanilla Perl. Huh?! ;) AFAIK. Strawberry Perl is a binary distribution of perl5 for windows. I thought Rakudo Perl 6 was ( equivalent to perl5 in the sentence above ) either going to become perl6 or already perl6. Is that the case, or is there not going to be a(n official) perl6 or are there going to be many perl6s ? Yes, I know there is pugs but I thought that was a prototype. -- --gh
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
Perl 6 is a language specification, tied to a test suite. It will have as many implementations as there are people / teams that wish to implement it. Pugs is a Haskell implementation-in-progress. Rakudo is an implementation-in-progress on top of the Parrot VM. One would expect a JPerl6 and an IronPerl6 too, eventually. Cheers, - Richard On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Guy Hulbert gwhulb...@eol.ca wrote: On Fri, 2009-16-01 at 09:16 -0600, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: I agree fully about the need for a visual representation; as far as the name goes I'm hoping that people will think of Rakudo Perl in a manner to the way that we currently think of Strawberry Perl or Vanilla Perl. Huh?! ;) AFAIK. Strawberry Perl is a binary distribution of perl5 for windows. I thought Rakudo Perl 6 was ( equivalent to perl5 in the sentence above ) either going to become perl6 or already perl6. Is that the case, or is there not going to be a(n official) perl6 or are there going to be many perl6s ? Yes, I know there is pugs but I thought that was a prototype. -- --gh
Re: A Logo design for Rakudo Perl 6
On Fri, 2009-16-01 at 07:53 -0800, jerry gay wrote: Yes, I know there is pugs but I thought that was a prototype. from http://perlcabal.org/syn/S01.html#Project_Plan: Thanks (also R Dice). I probably saw that but memory dulls with age. -- --gh
