Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 18:16, Behnam wrote: Sorry, I didn't intend to put words in your mouth. [...] No problem. It just made me wonder that you're referring to something else. I checked it, and I hadn't said that. I'm not that much into commercial value of software... roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 23:43, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Mirrored is even better. It is more similar to the way I usually separate them in handwriting. Put the pen on a paper and then move it to the top and left, a natural number separator! I move it to top and right. I remember doing that in school. Don't ask me for references, but I have seen many old people who use such a symbol for separating the thousands. But my old references are all top and right things! I remember myself, my dad, and others I remember all draw it to top and left. that's the usual direction to go when you are writing from left to right (numbers); just like English and Persian comma. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Behnam wrote: On 11-Jan-04, at 10:40 AM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 19:06, Behnam wrote: of improving Farsi computing. ^ Persian? Please? roozbeh Now, I like you to have the same pushing approach towards the technicality of Persian computing requirements! We at the FarsiWeb project spend our time to push the right thing in technically qualified places. Other people like Connie are sacrificing their life to get our comments and translate it into pages that the other 90% can understand. You are welcome to join him. But on the Persian versus Farsi issue, of course I followed the discussions in FarsiWeb and my personal view is that it's not for this forum or for any forum for that matter, to standardize a language. This goes way beyond the simple matter of two words, Farsi and Persian, which I don't care either way anyways, but the matter of openness of a language, a culture and the issue of freedom of expression. And of course I didn't join this forum to discuss about any of these matters. Suffice to say that language academy (à la Française) is not for me. This kind of institutions can't stop the evolution of the language of a people. They just adapt to the evolution forced by people... twenty years later! ... and I'm not going to discuss this any further. I don't mean any offense, but this is what I call ignorance. To use a word, to say that you do not care which one you use, and to refuse to discuss the reason. And this ignorance thing is gonna kill us some day or another. behdad Behnam ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
BTW, what would the use of Reh instead of proper chars like U+066C or U+066B do to sort orders or parsing of numeric vs. alphabetic sequences? For example, a function persian_ispunct() la ANSI C ispunct() would then have to include Reh as a possible punctuation character. On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 15:47, AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: I wonder even the Nesf2 has a bug about this U+066C. Nesf2 is deprecated, as far as the original author (Hooman Mehr), its porter to Unicode (Mehran Mehr) and the latest maintainers (FarsiWeb) are concerned. There are currently no plan to support it. Is there an alternative for me? May I use the 'Reh' until most of users have standard systems? Reh is definitely very ambiguous, specially since it's confusable with the more common Iran University Press usage of it for the decimal separator. Use may comma or apostrophe or something like that. 2. Ask my website visitors to download a newer version of Tahoma (What about the font Nesf?) Tahoma makes sense. Alternatively, tell them to download FarsiWeb fonts. B) What is this Arabic Decimal Separator (U+066B)? That is the momayyez. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Other people like Connie are sacrificing their life to get our comments and translate it into pages that the other 90% can understand. Speaking of which, I'm just today attempting to make a Persian keyboard for fingers which are used to typing English. (Peter Hauer already make the nice Keyman keyboard and that's great expecially for Win9x users but we also need one which works system-wide, not just in word-processing programs. The MS layout created keyboards only work on Win2000 and later.) Hopefully I'll get this done by the time the new fonts are past beta stage. Anyhow, I need some help. I'm just cheating by using Farsiweb's Persian experimental standard keyboard and rearranging things. Please tell me why you have included the following. Are they used for Persian? U+0060 Grave Accent U+003b Western Semicolon U+003F Western question mark U+0027 Apostrophe I decided to put the Arabic numerals as well as Persian. I think that will be useful in some cases. What do you think? (Don't worry, they're hard to reach--Shift+Cntrl+Alt!) By the way, this is very hard making all these executive decisions and I've ended up doing some crazy things. Like the 4 key was already maxed out for Persian 4, Rial, $ and Arabic 4 so I put the Euro on Cntrl+Alt+e. And I think I've put the ZWNJ on a total of 3 different keys, just for good measure! Someone stop me! Out of control!! And this ignorance thing is gonna kill us some day or another. Just think of the sheer amount of time wasted on cross referencing and explaining to people who really have no clue what these two names mean and all the misunderstandings. The damage can not be exaggerated. I heard a news report on Bam where the reporter seemed to not be sure if the country was called Iran or Iraq. Maybe just like the Farsi or Persian thing?? Utter confusion! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 09:02, C Bobroff wrote: Anyhow, I need some help. I'm just cheating by using Farsiweb's Persian experimental standard keyboard and rearranging things. Please tell me why you have included the following. Are they used for Persian? U+0060 Grave Accent U+003b Western Semicolon U+003F Western question mark U+0027 Apostrophe We did that because we wanted to allow all the ASCII printable characters. The real need was for things like XML, where some of these characters are part of the syntax. The user will want to enter Persian XML without ever switching to a Latin layout. I decided to put the Arabic numerals as well as Persian. I think that will be useful in some cases. What do you think? (Don't worry, they're hard to reach--Shift+Cntrl+Alt!) Why should one object to additions? You can go and add Koranic marks or Urdu letters also. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: We did that because we wanted to allow all the ASCII printable characters. The real need was for things like XML, where some of these characters are part of the syntax. The user will want to enter Persian XML without ever switching to a Latin layout. Glad I asked before deleting! I don't know about these things. Why should one object to additions? You can go and add Koranic marks or Urdu letters also. ok! Thank you for your blessing. It is indeed a shame to allow keys to go unused. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 09:20, C Bobroff wrote: Glad I asked before deleting! I don't know about these things. Put them in if you have the space. They'll prove to be necessary. It's not XML only. It's everything that is considered *rich text*, a text file that is supposed to mean more than the exact text. HTML, XML, TeX, ... roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Put them in if you have the space. They'll prove to be necessary. It's not XML only. It's everything that is considered *rich text*, a text file that is supposed to mean more than the exact text. HTML, XML, TeX, ... Sure, I'll put them. I wish there was a way to put 2-3 characters on a single keystroke with this tool. How have they managed that with Rial on the normal keyboards? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 09:31, C Bobroff wrote: I wish there was a way to put 2-3 characters on a single keystroke with this tool. How have they managed that with Rial on the normal keyboards? There is. Just input multiple characters in the box that asks you for the character. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, C Bobroff wrote: ok! Thank you for your blessing. It is indeed a shame to allow keys to go unused. Don't be hasty. Leave some unused for later when we encode new characters ;). behdad -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:14, AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: But don't you think shape of U+066C is very similar to sign of 'foot' and 'minute'? (http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/afgDecSep.JPG) Depends on the font. Compare with http://www.bamdad.org/~roozbeh/thsep.png, for example. I know it is kind of personal preferences, but I was wondering whether a right-faced comma-shaped character is suitable for the thousand separator. I read from right to left when I see such glyph. Because numbers are written and read from left to right, maybe a 180 rotation to this character makes it more suitable. It's a valid point. But I prefer it mirrored, not rotated. behdad Best -khanban- ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On Fri, 9 Jan 2004, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:14, AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: But don't you think shape of U+066C is very similar to sign of 'foot' and 'minute'? (http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/afgDecSep.JPG) Depends on the font. Compare with http://www.bamdad.org/~roozbeh/thsep.png, for example. I know it is kind of personal preferences, but I was wondering whether a right-faced comma-shaped character is suitable for the thousand separator. I read from right to left when I see such glyph. Because numbers are written and read from left to right, maybe a 180 rotation to this character makes it more suitable. It's a valid point. But I prefer it mirrored, not rotated. behdad Mirrored is even better. It is more similar to the way I usually separate them in handwriting. Put the pen on a paper and then move it to the top and left, a natural number separator! Don't ask me for references, but I have seen many old people who use such a symbol for separating the thousands. Best -khanban- -- || Ali Asghar Khanban || ||Research Associate in Department of Computing ||| Imperial College London, London SW7 2BZ, U.K. || Tel: +44 (020) 7594 8241 Fax: +1 (509) 694 0599 ||| [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~khanban ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:14, AmirBehzad Eslami wrote: But don't you think shape of U+066C is very similar to sign of 'foot' and 'minute'? (http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/afgDecSep.JPG) Depends on the font. Compare with http://www.bamdad.org/~roozbeh/thsep.png, for example. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 07:18, C Bobroff wrote: Make a model website [...] and use [...] Weft [...] so everyone can see how it's done. Not everyone can see Weft-enabled web pages: 1) It's a closed standard, so not everyone can implement it. Mozilla, Netscape, and Linux users won't be able to use the feature. 2) It depends on the OpenType standard, that is not supported on all platforms. Mac OS users won't be able to use the feature. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
