Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
On Fri, 2006-09-22 at 14:16 +0100, Dave Page wrote: Following the recent discussion on this list and another on pgsql-core, we have decided that we would like to aim to meet the following schedule for the release of PostgreSQL 8.3: April 1st 2007 - Feature freeze May 1st 2007 - Beta 1 release June 1st 2007 - Release This will obviously be a short development cycle which will allow us to get some of the features that just missed 8.2 out of the door, as well as giving us the opportunity to try releasing before the summer (for those in the northern hemisphere) rather than after. We are also aware that this is a tight timetable, however given the shorter development cycle we feel it is an achievable goal. Thanks for that, Dave and Core. I'm very happy to have clearly stated dates. That means we can all plan what we'll be able to achieve in that time, which is important when some of the largest or most complex features are being considered. -- Simon Riggs EnterpriseDB http://www.enterprisedb.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
[HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Following the recent discussion on this list and another on pgsql-core, we have decided that we would like to aim to meet the following schedule for the release of PostgreSQL 8.3: April 1st 2007 - Feature freeze May 1st 2007 - Beta 1 release June 1st 2007 - Release This will obviously be a short development cycle which will allow us to get some of the features that just missed 8.2 out of the door, as well as giving us the opportunity to try releasing before the summer (for those in the northern hemisphere) rather than after. We are also aware that this is a tight timetable, however given the shorter development cycle we feel it is an achievable goal. If anyone has any serious objections, please shout now! Regards, Dave -- Dave Page PostgreSQL Core Team ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Dave Page wrote: Following the recent discussion on this list and another on pgsql-core, we have decided that we would like to aim to meet the following schedule for the release of PostgreSQL 8.3: April 1st 2007 - Feature freeze May 1st 2007 - Beta 1 release June 1st 2007 - Release This will obviously be a short development cycle which will allow us to get some of the features that just missed 8.2 out of the door, as well as giving us the opportunity to try releasing before the summer (for those in the northern hemisphere) rather than after. We are also aware that this is a tight timetable, however given the shorter development cycle we feel it is an achievable goal. If anyone has any serious objections, please shout now! Sounds fine, but announcing this now is almost certain to reduce the number of people migrating to 8.2. I am not saying we shouldn't announce it now, but it is something I wanted to mention. -- Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseDBhttp://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
-Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2006 15:26 To: Dave Page Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle Sounds fine, but announcing this now is almost certain to reduce the number of people migrating to 8.2. I am not saying we shouldn't announce it now, but it is something I wanted to mention. Err right - if you had said this yesterday when we discussed the idea I could have mentioned it in my message. Right around the time you said Go for it would have been good :-) Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2006 15:26 To: Dave Page Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle Sounds fine, but announcing this now is almost certain to reduce the number of people migrating to 8.2. I am not saying we shouldn't announce it now, but it is something I wanted to mention. Err right - if you had said this yesterday when we discussed the idea I could have mentioned it in my message. Right around the time you said Go for it would have been good :-) I didn't think of it until today. Sorry. Personally, I don't like manipulating people by withholding information, so I still think we are doing the right thing. I am just saying it might have that effect. -- Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseDBhttp://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Bruce Momjian wrote: Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2006 15:26 To: Dave Page Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle Sounds fine, but announcing this now is almost certain to reduce the number of people migrating to 8.2. I am not saying we shouldn't announce it now, but it is something I wanted to mention. Err right - if you had said this yesterday when we discussed the idea I could have mentioned it in my message. Right around the time you said Go for it would have been good :-) I didn't think of it until today. Sorry. Personally, I don't like manipulating people by withholding information, so I still think we are doing the right thing. I am just saying it might have that effect. They will upgrade if they want the new features, as usual. I had dinner with 3 significant users yesterday and mentioned to them the new facility to add or drop inheritance on tables, and their reaction was along the lines of When can I have it? I want it now! They won't be deterred by the fact that the next dev cycle will be a bit shorter. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
-Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2006 15:35 To: Dave Page Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle Err right - if you had said this yesterday when we discussed the idea I could have mentioned it in my message. Right around the time you said Go for it would have been good :-) I didn't think of it until today. Sorry. NP - I wrote that firmly tongue in cheek, hence the smiley. Personally, I don't like manipulating people by withholding information, so I still think we are doing the right thing. Yes, agreed. Hopefully it will help people to plan their time given as much advance notice of cycle dates as possible. I am just saying it might have that effect. For some people I'm sure it will. Others (myself included) will want to move to 8.2 as soon as possible. Regards, dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 22 September 2006 15:26 To: Dave Page Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle Sounds fine, but announcing this now is almost certain to reduce the number of people migrating to 8.2. I am not saying we shouldn't announce it now, but it is something I wanted to mention. Err right - if you had said this yesterday when we discussed the idea I could have mentioned it in my message. Right around the time you said Go for it would have been good :-) This will likely stop people from migrating to 8.2, but so what? It isn't going to stop new users and existing users in real production setting will likely wait for 8.3 anyway. Joshua D. Drake -- === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. === Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240 Providing the most comprehensive PostgreSQL solutions since 1997 http://www.commandprompt.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Dave Page wrote: This will obviously be a short development cycle which will allow us to get some of the features that just missed 8.2 out of the door, as well as giving us the opportunity to try releasing before the summer (for those in the northern hemisphere) rather than after. Joshua's original mail suggested that only certain features would go in. Is that still on the cards, or will other features be considered if they're ready? I'm obviously thinking of enums which was ready (for review at least) a few weeks ago, but has probably bitrotted slightly since then given the number of patches that have landed in the tree. I intended to brush it up as soon as the 8.3 tree was open and resubmit it. Will that be a waste of time? Thanks Tom ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Bruce, Dave, This will likely stop people from migrating to 8.2, but so what? It isn't going to stop new users and existing users in real production setting will likely wait for 8.3 anyway. And at this point most production users are only upgrading every 2-3 releases anyway (something which will get worse with time). Heck, I have former clients who are still running 7.2. Why would they upgrade? It's never been down, and it's not exposed to untrusted users. --Josh Berkus ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
-Original Message- From: Tom Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Dave Page dpage@vale-housing.co.uk Cc: pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Sent: 22/09/06 17:21 Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle will other features be considered if they're ready? Yes, normal rules apply, just in a shorter timeframe. Regards, Dave ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Tom, I'm obviously thinking of enums which was ready (for review at least) a few weeks ago, but has probably bitrotted slightly since then given the number of patches that have landed in the tree. I intended to brush it up as soon as the 8.3 tree was open and resubmit it. Will that be a waste of time? Ooops. Are you sure these weren't committed? --Josh ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Tom Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joshua's original mail suggested that only certain features would go in. Is that still on the cards, or will other features be considered if they're ready? You'll note that Dave's mail said no such thing. There has been some talk of trying to agree on a roadmap for 8.3 and coordinate development efforts accordingly --- but that does not constitute an agreement to reject work not in the roadmap, just some coordination among those people who wish to coordinate. I'm obviously thinking of enums which was ready (for review at least) a few weeks ago, but has probably bitrotted slightly since then given the number of patches that have landed in the tree. I intended to brush it up as soon as the 8.3 tree was open and resubmit it. Please do. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Tom Dunstan wrote: Dave Page wrote: This will obviously be a short development cycle which will allow us to get some of the features that just missed 8.2 out of the door, as well as giving us the opportunity to try releasing before the summer (for those in the northern hemisphere) rather than after. Joshua's original mail suggested that only certain features would go in. Is that still on the cards, or will other features be considered if they're ready? I'm obviously thinking of enums which was ready (for review at least) a few weeks ago, but has probably bitrotted slightly since then given the number of patches that have landed in the tree. I intended to brush it up as soon as the 8.3 tree was open and resubmit it. Will that be a waste of time? AFAIK, we aren't doing anything like that, and it would be quite unfair if we did. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Josh Berkus josh@agliodbs.com writes: Bruce, Dave, This will likely stop people from migrating to 8.2, but so what? It isn't going to stop new users and existing users in real production setting will likely wait for 8.3 anyway. And at this point most production users are only upgrading every 2-3 releases anyway (something which will get worse with time). The other side of that coin is that with a short devel cycle, 8.3 is not necessarily going to look like a must-have upgrade to many people either. If I were a DBA looking at the current plans, and I didn't have a desperate need for bitmap indexes (a feature with a still very unclear use-case footprint ...), I'd probably figure that updating to 8.2 soon is a more rewarding strategy than waiting for 8.3. Known benefits now versus unknown benefits later is a pretty easy call. In the end, any one user is going to find particular updates compelling or not based on specific features they need for their specific application. We can't any longer expect that everyone's going to adopt every release immediately ... indeed, that's why we're still supporting back release branches. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
On Fri, Sep 22, 2006 at 02:16:53PM +0100, Dave Page wrote: Following the recent discussion on this list and another on pgsql-core, we have decided that we would like to aim to meet the following schedule for the release of PostgreSQL 8.3: April 1st 2007 - Feature freeze ^ We should probably move this forward or back one day. Cheers, D -- David Fetter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fetter.org/ phone: +1 415 235 3778AIM: dfetter666 Skype: davidfetter Remember to vote! ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Josh Berkus wrote: I'm obviously thinking of enums which was ready (for review at least) a few weeks ago, but has probably bitrotted slightly since then given the number of patches that have landed in the tree. I intended to brush it up as soon as the 8.3 tree was open and resubmit it. Will that be a waste of time? Ooops. Are you sure these weren't committed? Pretty sure. :) Why the oops? They haven't been mentioned in some PR material or something have they? Cheers Tom ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Josh Berkus wrote: Tom, I'm obviously thinking of enums which was ready (for review at least) a few weeks ago, but has probably bitrotted slightly since then given the number of patches that have landed in the tree. I intended to brush it up as soon as the 8.3 tree was open and resubmit it. Will that be a waste of time? Ooops. Are you sure these weren't committed? It's not committed - it was submitted long after feature freeze (in fact, coding didn't begin until after freeze). But it's fairly liable to bitrot, since it touches the catalog in a significant way. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Tom Lane wrote: Tom Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joshua's original mail suggested that only certain features would go in. Is that still on the cards, or will other features be considered if they're ready? You'll note that Dave's mail said no such thing. No, but it did explicitly mention features that just missed 8.2, so I just wanted some clarification, which you and Dave have now provided. Thanks. Tom ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Tom, Pretty sure. :) Why the oops? They haven't been mentioned in some PR material or something have they? No, I'd just been confused and thought the patch was submitted before feature freeze. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
On Friday 22 September 2006 12:40, Tom Lane wrote:
Tom Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Joshua's original mail suggested that only certain features would go in.
Is that still on the cards, or will other features be considered if
they're ready?
You'll note that Dave's mail said no such thing.
I'd like to see some type of statement from core what level of changes thier
willing to allow in the core for this short release (system catalog changes
seem like a must, and looks like on disk format changes is ok too?) Of
course my angle is making the upgrade from 8.2-8.3 as painless as
possible... if we can avoid a dump/reload cycle then people are less likely
to have to choose between 8.2 and 8.3, which would make everyone happy I
imagine.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Robert Treat wrote: On Friday 22 September 2006 12:40, Tom Lane wrote: Tom Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joshua's original mail suggested that only certain features would go in. Is that still on the cards, or will other features be considered if they're ready? You'll note that Dave's mail said no such thing. I'd like to see some type of statement from core what level of changes thier willing to allow in the core for this short release (system catalog changes seem like a must, and looks like on disk format changes is ok too?) Of course my angle is making the upgrade from 8.2-8.3 as painless as possible... if we can avoid a dump/reload cycle then people are less likely to have to choose between 8.2 and 8.3, which would make everyone happy I imagine. Agreed, but my guess is that we are going to introduce shorter varlena headers for 8.3. It will hard to reject an optimization like that, and that will probably change the disk format for most columns. -- Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseDBhttp://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] 8.3 Development Cycle
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Agreed, but my guess is that we are going to introduce shorter varlena headers for 8.3. It will hard to reject an optimization like that, and that will probably change the disk format for most columns. Well, several of the proposals that have been made would not cause existing disk images to become broken --- in particular, the idea of introducing separate short datatypes without touching the existing ones would have that merit. So we might want to factor that point into our choices about what to do. This is all pretty pointless unless someone actually writes a pg_upgrade tool, but maybe we'll see one for 8.3. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
