Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
-Original Message- From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 November 2003 00:53 To: PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage Andreas Pflug wrote: pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this). For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far. I don't think any of this contradicts what Marc said. Maybe not, but you can easily run pgAdmin remotely over X if you have a need to run it locally on a remote server. I've done so a number of times and found it quite usable on my cheapo DSL line at home. And, as Joshua pointed out it could with some work be made to run as an applet, which would be very cool for, say, an ISP to provide (nothing at all required for the user to install). Yeah, I agree X is not a solution to that. phpPgAdmin is though... Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend it to my Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate using command lines. Why not your Linux or FreeBSD oriented colleagues? It runs just as well on those platforms. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend it to my Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate using command lines. Why not your Linux or FreeBSD oriented colleagues? It runs just as well on those platforms. especially != only :-) I have it installed on the RH9 machine I use for development, and happily show it to people there. most *nix people I come into contact with are old fossils like me who prefer scripts and command lines for doing things. I don't use an IDE (unless you count emacs as an IDE) for development, and I rarely use control-panel-like apps. BTW, pgadmin could improve its Linux coverage somewhat by a) providing RPMs for versions of RedHat before 9, or at least providing SRPMs that can be built on such platforms, and b) getting pgadmin included in the fedora package set. Anyway, CommandPrompt have apparently done something cool and they are donating it and we should all be happy, no? :-) cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
-Original Message- From: Andrew Dunstan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 05 November 2003 12:48 To: PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage especially != only Very true :-) BTW, pgadmin could improve its Linux coverage somewhat by a) providing RPMs for versions of RedHat before 9, Unfortunately we are somewhat limited to the boxes that our developers have available, however if anyone can help out with additional ports/distributions we would welcome them and help out in any way we can. or at least providing SRPMs that can be built on such platforms, I believe they should do know - Jean-Michel, were you looking at this? and b) getting pgadmin included in the fedora package set. I only heard about Fedora about 20 minutes ago! Jean-Michel, do you have any contacts that might be able to help with this? Anyway, CommandPrompt have apparently done something cool and they are donating it and we should all be happy, no? :-) With my PostgreSQL hat on, yes, it's a good thing. With my pgAdmin hat, no, it's a bad thing! Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Greg Stark) writes: Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable as a web archive. If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a database frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It presented a spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and handled dealing with arbitrary sized result sets and allowing editing of fields using primary keys etc. It was actually part of their open source release. I looked at trying to pull it out of their build system and package it up independently a while back. It was a bit of a pain. But I did manage to get it compiled and up and running against Oracle at the time. The main pain was getting the ODBC drivers set up. Getting that working smoothly with postgres and actively developed could make for a really nice DML tool. Was that a 'native' part of SHELF? Or more related to their TM1 product? FYI, while Applix and VistaSource have orphaned it, source code for SHELF is still available at SourceForge. ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/shelf/ It was written for GTK 1.2; we're up to much newer stuff, and it's not self-evident that it will play with newer versions. (Old versions are presumably still available and quasi-usable...) -- output = reverse(moc.enworbbc @ enworbbc) http://cbbrowne.com/info/sap.html For be a man's intellectual superiority what it will, it can never assume the practical, available supremacy over other men, without the aid of some sort of external arts and entrenchments, always, in themselves, more or less paltry and base. This it is, that forever keeps God's true princes of the Empire from the world's hustings; and leaves the highest honors that this air can give, to those men who become famous more through their infinite inferiority to the choice hidden handful of the Divine Inert, than through their undoubted superiority over the dead level of the mass. --Moby Dick, Ch 33 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Christopher Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Was that a 'native' part of SHELF? Or more related to their TM1 product? The full source was included in SHELF (if that was the source release I'm thinking of.) I think it was called axdata. FYI, while Applix and VistaSource have orphaned it, source code for SHELF is still available at SourceForge. ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/sourceforge/shelf/ -- greg ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Joshua D. Drake writes: I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are people's thoughts on this? I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be included with PostgreSQL. We will provide a server and let a happy bunch of client applications and libraries develop around it. That has worked out pretty well lately, I think. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] Master-of-the-Makefiles http://www.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Hello, If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there but doesn't that mean that psql would be separate as well? J Peter Eisentraut wrote: Joshua D. Drake writes: I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are people's thoughts on this? I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be included with PostgreSQL. We will provide a server and let a happy bunch of client applications and libraries develop around it. That has worked out pretty well lately, I think. -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-222-2783 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.commandprompt.com Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 14:14, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, As Command Prompt is about to release it's Replication product we are open sourcing our pgManage. pgManage is similar to pgAdmin but as it is java based it is truly cross platform and should easily support most if not all of the community supported platforms. I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are people's thoughts on this? Any client distributed with PostgreSQL should work on all of the platforms PostgreSQL does. Java can make this a bit of a stickler since Sun does not support it outside the mainstream systems. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there but doesn't that mean that psql would be separate as well? no new client applications ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there but doesn't that mean that psql would be separate as well? no new client applications BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are. cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joshua D. Drake writes: I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are people's thoughts on this? I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be included with PostgreSQL. Donation doesn't equal include in the server distribution. I think it would be great to put it up on gborg. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there but doesn't that mean that psql would be separate as well? no new client applications BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are. D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that would be *really* cool ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Joshua, I'd love to see it donated to the community as well! Dave On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 16:01, Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joshua D. Drake writes: I thought that we might donate it to the project as a whole. What are people's thoughts on this? I think the decision has been made that no new client applications will be included with PostgreSQL. Donation doesn't equal include in the server distribution. I think it would be great to put it up on gborg. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
If it doesn't do jsp now, it would be a good starting point for a web version, as java lends it self well to multiple views. Dave On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 15:59, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Andrew Dunstan wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Hello, If that is the case that is fine. I just wanted to throw it out there but doesn't that mean that psql would be separate as well? no new client applications BTW, Joshua, thanks for releasing this - all my client side work is currently Java (a Tomcat webapp in fact) so I'm very interested to see the shape of your app, as I'm sure others are. D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that would be *really* cool ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that would be *really* cool ... Hello, Well right now you can't but there is no reason why it couldn't as an applet with some work. J ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- Command Prompt, Inc., home of Mammoth PostgreSQL - S/ODBC and S/JDBC Postgresql support, programming shared hosting and dedicated hosting. +1-503-222-2783 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.commandprompt.com Editor-N-Chief - PostgreSQl.Org - http://www.postgresql.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Josh, Yes it has a Java requirement but hey that is a lot easier than a GTK requirement to fullfill. My thought is that it could be included as pgAccess used to be. As we discussed, PostgreSQL is blessed with three ... now 4 ... good GUI interfaces. We don't have the justification to include one of these GUIs with the source and not the others. I do think that we should consider offering the GUIs alongside the source on the FTP mirrors. Or at least having a big link on the downloads page and the users page to the GUI list. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Marc G. Fournier wrote: JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that would be *really* cool ... D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this). For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far. Regards, Andreas ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Andreas Pflug wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely ... if you could run pgManage under something like Jakarta-Tomcat as a JSP, that would be *really* cool ... D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a pgAdmin is designed for a good interactive experience, which isn't achievable using web technologies. SSL connection is supported, so on not-too-slow lines remote usage should be possible without security issues, or over a VPN (I'm working like this). For web access, phpPGadmin should be usable; haven't tried so far. I don't think any of this contradicts what Marc said. And, as Joshua pointed out it could with some work be made to run as an applet, which would be very cool for, say, an ISP to provide (nothing at all required for the user to install). Don't get me wrong - pgadmin is cool - I especially recommend it to my Windows oriented clients and colleagues who hate using command lines. I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable as a web archive. (BTW, have a look at the phpPgAdmin screen shots at http://phppgadmin.sourceforge.net/?page=screenshots - they are quite nice, even though I am not a PHP fan). cheers andrew ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
Andrew Dunstan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think there is room for lots of GUIs, though, and having a Java admin GUI would be cool too, as would having a servlet/JSP based admin client deployable as a web archive. If someone's looking for an interesting GUI project, Applix had a database frontend that was geared more for data rather than DDL. It presented a spreadsheet-like interface for arbitrary sql queries and handled dealing with arbitrary sized result sets and allowing editing of fields using primary keys etc. It was actually part of their open source release. I looked at trying to pull it out of their build system and package it up independently a while back. It was a bit of a pain. But I did manage to get it compiled and up and running against Oracle at the time. The main pain was getting the ODBC drivers set up. Getting that working smoothly with postgres and actively developed could make for a really nice DML tool. -- greg ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [HACKERS] Open Sourcing pgManage
D'oh, just clued into the 'java' aspect ... Joshua, will this run as a JSP, remotely, through Jakarta-Tomcat? One of the limitations of pgAdmin, as far as I'm concerned, is the fact that you can run it remotely Then use phpPgAdmin... Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
