Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
JB == Josh Berkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JB Guys, the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel JB I stand corrected. That should help things some; it makes it more JB of a small tradeoff between performance and storage size for the JB drives. it is fibre channel to the host. the internals are still IDE drives with possibly multiple controllers inside the enclosure. -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Vivek Khera, Ph.D.Khera Communications, Inc. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rockville, MD +1-301-869-4449 x806 AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera http://www.khera.org/~vivek/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Just starting to work with one now, so I'll let people know what I find. There has been some talk that the XServe RAID seems more optimized for streaming applications rather than heavy random-access type applications, which really wouldn't surprise me given where they probably expect to sell most of them (music/film). They gave us a very good price break, as we are in an industry they wanted exposure in (financial services). If you want a pile of storage at a good price point, its certainly worth considering. The unit itself is built very well, and the admin tools are very good (OS X only, though). It and the cards that come in the XServes use copper SFP cables/connections, which is good or bad depending upon you're point of view. The switch Apple sells off of their web site is a Vixel (recently bought by Emulex). I have XServes hooked up at the moment, which work fine. My production DB machine is a slackware box, which has tested out fine in initial tests with a QLogic HBA and the stock in-kernel drivers. They're also 'certified' to work with Emulex cards, but IIRC Emulex doesn't do copper. Emulex did open-source their driver code last year (right after I had to change an client's install from my beloved Slack to RHAS because Emulex only had version-specific drivers). More as it happens. On Aug 25, 2004, at 6:52 PM, Doug McNaught wrote: Josh Berkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert, Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and if they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA \ Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives and a PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not server-grade) hardware. I can't recommend the XServe as a database platform. SCSI still makes a difference for databases, more because of the controllers than anything else. The XServe RAID is fibre-channel. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Rawnsley President The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd. (740) 587-0114 www.ravensfield.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs/FAQ.html
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus for each drive. What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually performed. Josh Berkus wrote: Guys, the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel I stand corrected. That should help things some; it makes it more of a small tradeoff between performance and storage size for the drives. -- Kevin Barnard Speed Fulfillment and Call Center [EMAIL PROTECTED] 214-258-0120
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Kevin Barnard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus for each drive. What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually performed. Good point. (a) The FC-ATA unit hopefully has a battery-backed cache, which would make the whole thing more robust against power loss. (b) Since Apple is the vendor for the drive units, they can buy ATA drives that don't lie about cache flushes. Whether they do or not is definitely a question. ;) -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Doug McNaught wrote: Kevin Barnard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus for each drive. What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually performed. Good point. (a) The FC-ATA unit hopefully has a battery-backed cache, which would make the whole thing more robust against power loss. (b) Since Apple is the vendor for the drive units, they can buy ATA drives that don't lie about cache flushes. Whether they do or not is definitely a question. ;) FYI:http://developer.apple.com/technotes/tn/pdf/tn1040.pdf a tech note on write cache flushing. A bit dated now, but perhaps some other tech note from Apple has more recent information. -- Alan ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
On Aug 26, 2004, at 3:54 PM, Doug McNaught wrote: Kevin Barnard [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually you are both are right and wrong. The XRaid uses FibreChannel to communicate to the host machine(s). The Raid controller is a FibreChannel controller. After that there is a FibreChannel to UltraATA conversion for each drive, separate ATA bus for each drive. What I am curious about is if this setup gets around ATA fsync problems, where the drive reports the write before it is actually performed. Good point. (a) The FC-ATA unit hopefully has a battery-backed cache, which would make the whole thing more robust against power loss. Each controller is battery backed (pretty beefy batteries too). Actually, they are optional, but if you spend the money for the unit and leave off the battery you should have your head examined. (b) Since Apple is the vendor for the drive units, they can buy ATA drives that don't lie about cache flushes. Whether they do or not is definitely a question. ;) Given what they charge for them I would like to think so...but who knows... The ones in mine are from Hitachi, model #HDS722525VLAT80. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Andrew Rawnsley President The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd. (740) 587-0114 www.ravensfield.com ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Josh Berkus [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Robert, Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and if they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA \ Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives and a PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not server-grade) hardware. I can't recommend the XServe as a database platform. SCSI still makes a difference for databases, more because of the controllers than anything else. The XServe RAID is fibre-channel. -Doug -- Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees. --T. J. Jackson, 1863 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
Guys, the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel I stand corrected. That should help things some; it makes it more of a small tradeoff between performance and storage size for the drives. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
we checked a XServe/XRaid system some months ago and
especially the relation price/space/performance was OK
compared to a HP/Intel maschine. Tomorrow I'll try to
find the performance charts on my harddisc and post the
links to the list. You get a huge amount of raid-space
for a good price.
We plan to get one to do our web-statistics there with
about 150 MegaPageImpressions a month.
Ralf Schramm
Am 25.08.2004 um 23:09 schrieb Robert Treat:
Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and
if
they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you
know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72103/
wo/oC2xGlPM9M2i3UsLG0f1PaalTlE/0.0.9.1.0.6.13.0.3.1.3.0.7.12.1.1.0
Robert Treat
--
Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
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Re: [PERFORM] Anyone familiar with Apple Xserve RAID
the XServe/XRaid comes with FibreChannel Here some infos: http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/architecture.html http://www.apple.com/xserve/raid/fibre_channel.html http://www.apple.com/xserve/architecture.html Ralf Schramm Am 25.08.2004 um 23:22 schrieb Josh Berkus: Robert, Just curious if folks have ever used this for a postgresql server and if they used it with OSX/BSD/Linux. Even if you haven't used it, if you know of something comparable I'd be interested. TIA Last I checked Apple was still shipping the XServes with SATA drives and a PROMISE controller, both very consumer-grade (and not server-grade) hardware. I can't recommend the XServe as a database platform. SCSI still makes a difference for databases, more because of the controllers than anything else. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
