[Pharo-dev] DarkTheme - tool bar icon color inconsistent

[Ben Coman]

n the previous white theme, toolbar icons matched the colour of their text.
This makes a lot sense and is pleasant.

In the dark theme, there is no correlation.
Is this oversight or deliberate intent?  It jars my senses.

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19973/DarkTheme-tool-bar-icons

cheers -ben

[Pharo-dev] Help browser topic ordering

[Ben Coman]

What is it that defines the ordering of topics in the help browser?

I see slice 19963 added a "Travis Integration" topic into build 60468
http://forum.world.st/pharo-project-pharo-core-7bde98-60468-td4942945.html

and its ended up at the top of the list above "Welcome",
but I determine from the slice or other existing help topics
where the order is defined?

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Implementers code pane undo goes too far

[Ben Coman]

This issue was introduced into build 50245 [1].  If no one has noticed
before, its not critical for Pharo 6 (unless it exposes something that
may bite others more widely.)

Can reproduce by loading slice for Case 15774 on top of build 50244.
"Make Spec using RubPluggableTextMorph instead of PluggableTextMorph "

[1] http://forum.world.st/pharo-project-pharo-core-03b7d7-50245-td4843802.html

cheers -ben

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 10:54 AM, Ben Coman  wrote:
> I hit some strange behaviour...
>
> Setup...
> 1. In playground, type... green
> 2. Open implementers on it
> 3. Select the second line "Color class(defaults)green"
> 4. Click in the code pane
> Observe that "green" is pre-selected and the cursor is flashing at
> end of first line
> 5. Start typing... self halt.
> Observe the method name is overwritten
>
> Problem...
> 6. Hit CTRL-Z three times.
> Observe the instance side #green is displayed rather than the class side.
>
> Auxiliary...
> Now save it and work out how to get out of the mess
> (pretending you didn't notice what had happened)
>
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19972/Implementers-code-pane-undo-goes-too-far
>
> cheers -ben

[Pharo-dev] Implementers code pane undo goes too far

[Ben Coman]

I hit some strange behaviour...

Setup...
1. In playground, type... green
2. Open implementers on it
3. Select the second line "Color class(defaults)green"
4. Click in the code pane
Observe that "green" is pre-selected and the cursor is flashing at
end of first line
5. Start typing... self halt.
Observe the method name is overwritten

Problem...
6. Hit CTRL-Z three times.
Observe the instance side #green is displayed rather than the class side.

Auxiliary...
Now save it and work out how to get out of the mess
(pretending you didn't notice what had happened)

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19972/Implementers-code-pane-undo-goes-too-far

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] do we "how to use Announcements" somewhere

[Stephane Ducasse]

But someone has to enhance documentation because I start to have no energy
for documenting other works.

Stef

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:14 AM, Ben Coman  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Ben Coman  wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 5:47 AM, Peter Uhnak  wrote:
> >> I was just explaining how Announcer/Announcements work to somebody
> because I couldn't find any online resource, but I thought I saw it
> somewhere.
> >>
> >> Do we have it explained in some book?
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >
> > I remember finding this tutorial very instructive.  Its quite old so
> > I'm not sure how current it is, but I don't think much has changed
> > with the Announcements API.
> > http://pharo.dougedmunds.com/pmwiki.php?n=Pharo.AnnouncementsTutorial
> >
> > Also...
> > http://pharo.gemtalksystems.com/book/LanguageAndLibraries/announcements/
> > and...
> > https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2016/09/03/building-an-
> announcement-spy-in/
> >
> > cheers -ben
>
> Oh, and...
> https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/PharoLimbo/blob/master/
> Announcements/Announcements.pdf
>
> cheers -ben
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Traits methods flattened

[Ben Coman]

On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 12:54 AM, Hilaire  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I installed the slice in a Pharo5 image. It does not work on my package,
> nor the the test package.
>
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19938
>
> Does the slice only work on Pharo6?

I don't know, but I see sixty Trait related issues integrated into Pharo 6.
https://tinyurl.com/Pharo60IssuesTraits

cheers -ben

[Pharo-dev] Traits methods flattened

[Hilaire]

Hi,

I installed the slice in a Pharo5 image. It does not work on my package,
nor the the test package.

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19938

Does the slice only work on Pharo6?

Hilaire

-- 
Dr. Geo
http://drgeo.eu

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Stephan Eggermont]

On 21/04/17 15:22, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:

its ironic you say this Stephan

and the irony is that you claim that Dark Theme is inappropriate because
Pharo uses so many hard coded colours when it was Esteban's effort to
have a dark theme that decreased the amount of hard coded methods and
modified them to support themes.  The very reason you use that Dark
Theme should not be used as default is the very reason to use it because
it will forces us to detect those methods and convert them to support
our Theme classes. This will not only improve the Dark Themes but ANY
future theme.


No. That is just an indicator that we are far from finished, and that is 
one good reason not to switch to it close to release. The other reasons are:

- it breaks our own feature freeze rule;
- giving us not enough time to test;
- the number of hard-coded colors suggests that our practical 
(non-automated) test coverage is low and the actual users of dark theme 
have usage patterns that miss parts of the system;
- it focuses attention on a part of the system that should be irrelevant 
so close to release;

- it forces projects that depend on pharo to make changes now;
- making it more difficult for them to release close after pharo releases;
- and thus makes pharo release management look amateurish;
- it is a bad default for the majority of users;
- who will mostly not do any testing but only switch to light theme as 
fast as possible, especially when confronted with a decision made like this;

- and is thus bad marketing;
- it is taking a lot of time from the people who should be doing more 
productive things.


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Dimitris Chloupis]

its ironic you say this Stephan

and the irony is that you claim that Dark Theme is inappropriate because
Pharo uses so many hard coded colours when it was Esteban's effort to have
a dark theme that decreased the amount of hard coded methods and modified
them to support themes.  The very reason you use that Dark Theme should not
be used as default is the very reason to use it because it will forces us
to detect those methods and convert them to support our Theme classes. This
will not only improve the Dark Themes but ANY future theme.

What I can say with certainty is that the way to move forward is most
definitely not to move back.

I also do not like the fact that GTSpotter has its own theme support , I
found it a terrible idea when it first appeared, after a long time using
GTSpotter , still find it a terrible idea that is completely disconnected
from the main theme.

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 3:49 PM Stephan Eggermont  wrote:

> On 21/04/17 13:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman
> >  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
> >  > > wrote:
> > > You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
> > >
> > > not one even bothered posting
> > > a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one .
> >
> > To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :)  :P
> >
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-need-to-be-distinctive
> >
> > cheers -ben
> >
> >
> > I mean in this thread , will make it easier, because for example fogbuz
> > asks for a login.
>
> You still haven't been paying attention. We have hard-coded colors all
> over the place. And I am not interested in new bug reports now. I want
> the theme switch reverted and done after the release. This is just bad
> process and it should be stopped.
>
> Stephan
>
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Stephan Eggermont]

On 21/04/17 13:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:



On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman
> wrote:

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
> wrote:
> You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
>
> not one even bothered posting
> a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one .

To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :)  :P

https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-need-to-be-distinctive

cheers -ben


I mean in this thread , will make it easier, because for example fogbuz
asks for a login.


You still haven't been paying attention. We have hard-coded colors all 
over the place. And I am not interested in new bug reports now. I want 
the theme switch reverted and done after the release. This is just bad 
process and it should be stopped.


Stephan

Re: [Pharo-dev] In the quest of a new iterator :)

[Ben Coman]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Alistair Grant 
wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 09:05:15AM +0800, Ben Coman wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 12:31 AM, Nicolas Cellier
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > On the other hand, we have #keysAndValuesDo: which competes with
> > > #withIndexDo: and is a bit more portable across dialects
> > > (it's just that it turns the bloc parameters the other way around,
> [:index
> > > :element | ])
> > >
> > > So maybe this should have been #keysAndValuesSelect:
> #keysAndValuesCollect:
> > >
> > > Reminder, keys does not mean Dictionary, in an IndexedCollection (or
> maybe a
> > > SequenceableCollection) the keys are indices. Or the other way around,
> a
> > > Dictionary is indexed by arbitrary keys (not just positive integers).
> >
> > Sounds like something I should know, but I'm not quite getting it.
> > Could you provide an example?
>
> Is this what you meant?
>
>
> | results |
>
> results := OrderedCollection new.
> #('a' 'b' 'c' 'd') keysAndValuesDo:
> [ :k :v | results add: { k. v. } ].
> results
>
>
I thought you meant "something" else and wasn't sure what.
That clears it up. thx.
cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Hernán Morales Durand]

How you could support democracy then putting smiles besides "no democracy"?
I don't get it. Maybe you like dictatorship, good for you. I don't like
them, benevolent or not.
You read stories in books. I had born in a military regime, me and my
parents lived it, so what do you want to teach me about having military
forces around?

Again, you don't have any idea of my mood, so please do yourself a favor
and stop talking about things you don't really know.
Don't put ad hominem on me, if you want to support "benevolent" or
malicious dictators good for you. But I don't have anything to do with your
argumentation.



2017-04-21 8:22 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis :

> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM Hernán Morales Durand <
> hernan.mora...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Then don't talk about democracy, because you weren't born at Ottoman
>> Empire nor Nazi occupation, and many of us actually were born and lived
>> under military dictatorship.
>>
>
> I am perplexed from your reply. First your logic makes zero sense for me.
> I am deeply touched by the pain embedded in the stories I read in books and
> personal witness accounts of several relatives that were present during
> Great Fire of Smyrna and the Nazi Occupation. My grandparents were "lucky"
> enough to suffer both and spared no details of the atrocities they
> witnessed. These stories have shaped my entire personal identity and guides
> me in life to respect and tolerate others. If i really needed to live in a
> non democratic regime to understand this then I would feel that I let these
> people down (which I  so dearly love) and I could never imagine myself
> doing that.
>
> If you want to know I am hardcore supporter of democracy , especially
> direct technocratic (technology and science based) democracy. So your reply
> makes me smile more than frustrate me because of how far from the truth you
> really are.
>
> I was referring to Pharo and was definitely did not suggest to take arms
> and kill anyone who disagrees with us. As I already explained even in a
> democracy there is a chain of command and frankly a forum is a lousy way to
> exercise democratic leadership.  Not all participate here and messages are
> about complains and questions not praise. So its a bad representation of
> the community feelings though a great way to exchange knowledge an help
> each other. Its much easier and efficient to have a central committee as
> Pharo has that makes these decisions obviously by taking into account the
> community and what the users really want.
>
> Also as I stated form the start I do not have a problem with making or not
> making the dark theme the default theme. What I do like however is that we
> have a leadership that take decisions without having to apologise for them.
> They try to do their best to make the community happy and I think they do a
> pretty good job at it. Taking into account how extremely popular dark
> themes really are.
>
> Do not worry you wont be hearing or reading about my political beliefs,
> here or anywhere, I rarely mention them. People find them hard to digest
> and I am not very diplomatic at presenting them, but I am working on it :)
>
> In any case I am not offended by your remarks, I know you mean well and
> you just used my message as a way to express your anger for things
> unrelated to me. I respect your anger and your pain and I hope you find the
> healing you deserve and a happy life.
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Dimitris Chloupis]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:53 PM Ben Coman  wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
>  wrote:
> > You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
> >
> > not one even bothered posting
> > a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one .
>
> To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :)  :P
>
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-need-to-be-distinctive
>
> cheers -ben
>
>
I mean in this thread , will make it easier, because for example fogbuz
asks for a login.

Though I agree bug reports is the best way to report these issues :)

I think a potential solution would be to offer several Dark Themes instead
of one, so maybe as a community we can agree a few of them and I can make
then and Esteban integrate them. We could also do the same for the white
theme. There is little reason to be only 2. This way we will have a happier
community.

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Dimitris Chloupis]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:52 PM Hernán Morales Durand <
hernan.mora...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Then don't talk about democracy, because you weren't born at Ottoman
> Empire nor Nazi occupation, and many of us actually were born and lived
> under military dictatorship.
>

I am perplexed from your reply. First your logic makes zero sense for me. I
am deeply touched by the pain embedded in the stories I read in books and
personal witness accounts of several relatives that were present during
Great Fire of Smyrna and the Nazi Occupation. My grandparents were "lucky"
enough to suffer both and spared no details of the atrocities they
witnessed. These stories have shaped my entire personal identity and guides
me in life to respect and tolerate others. If i really needed to live in a
non democratic regime to understand this then I would feel that I let these
people down (which I  so dearly love) and I could never imagine myself
doing that.

If you want to know I am hardcore supporter of democracy , especially
direct technocratic (technology and science based) democracy. So your reply
makes me smile more than frustrate me because of how far from the truth you
really are.

I was referring to Pharo and was definitely did not suggest to take arms
and kill anyone who disagrees with us. As I already explained even in a
democracy there is a chain of command and frankly a forum is a lousy way to
exercise democratic leadership.  Not all participate here and messages are
about complains and questions not praise. So its a bad representation of
the community feelings though a great way to exchange knowledge an help
each other. Its much easier and efficient to have a central committee as
Pharo has that makes these decisions obviously by taking into account the
community and what the users really want.

Also as I stated form the start I do not have a problem with making or not
making the dark theme the default theme. What I do like however is that we
have a leadership that take decisions without having to apologise for them.
They try to do their best to make the community happy and I think they do a
pretty good job at it. Taking into account how extremely popular dark
themes really are.

Do not worry you wont be hearing or reading about my political beliefs,
here or anywhere, I rarely mention them. People find them hard to digest
and I am not very diplomatic at presenting them, but I am working on it :)

In any case I am not offended by your remarks, I know you mean well and you
just used my message as a way to express your anger for things unrelated to
me. I respect your anger and your pain and I hope you find the healing you
deserve and a happy life.

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Then more respect for the word, because many people gave their life for it.


2017-04-21 7:52 GMT-03:00 Esteban Lorenzano :

> in fact, Greece had a pretty hard dictatorship from '67 to '74
>
> On 21 Apr 2017, at 12:40, Dimitris Chloupis  wrote:
>
> I think that 300 years of enslavement by the Ottoman Empire gave us (as a
> nation) a pretty good idea , plus the Great Fire of Smyrna, plus Nazi
> occupation etc. You assume too much. I was talking about Pharo by the way,
> not politics.
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:32 PM Hernán Morales Durand <
> hernan.mora...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2017-04-21 5:10 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis :
>>
>>> Resistance is futile
>>>
>>> You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
>>>
>>> The one thing that I find amazing is that we have like 58 messages
>>> already , many of them complain about the dark theme and not one even
>>> bothered posting a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" ,
>>> just one . How hard it is to trigger a shortcut to capture an image so we
>>> who love the dark theme can see why some people find it hard to use.
>>>
>>> And this is why I feel lucky that the deed is done and this is no
>>> democracy very happy indeed :)
>>>
>>>
>> You don't have ANY idea of how is to live without democracy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Hernán
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:48 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>>>
 I see in 60467 that the deed is done.  Okay, so moving forward... be
 prepared ;) for a surge of feedback as a bunch of us
 dark-theme-newbies start using it in earnest.  I understand those that
 been using it a while already are obviously happy with how its tuned,
 and probably not many things can be accommodated, but there is one
 thing...

 Maybe its that its 1AM, or its my astigmatism, but my first impression
 was a shock at the high contrast pure-white-on-black text - for the
 World Menu and System Browser - to the degree that my eyes felt
 crosseyed.  Particularly the title-bar-text was jarring.  Dimming it
 slightly made it *much* easier to focus.   Could
 dark-theme-connoisseurs try this out...

 Pharo3DarkTheme>>textColor
 ^ Color veryLightGray lighter


 And wow!  That very bright green in TestRunner hurts.


 Other than that, so far it looks cool.

 cheers -ben


 On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:19 AM, Stephane Ducasse
  wrote:
 > For the mooc we have normally an image: it is called Pharo 50.
 >
 > S.
 >
 > On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Mark Bestley 
 wrote:
 >>
 >> Dimitris Chloupis 
 >> wrote:
 >>
 >> > --001a113a8620c74f7a054d5aba55
 >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 >> >
 >> > Not before IMMEDIATELY realizing that all screenshots containing
 the
 >> > white
 >> > theme are outdated and will IMMEDIATELY prefer the dark ones that
 will
 >> > have
 >> > an updated view of the Pharo GUI compared to a screenshot that has
 the
 >> > white theme and it's outdated by two or more years.
 >> >
 >>
 >> No they will think it is for a different environment and waste time
 >> looking for a match.
 >>
 >> A beginner won't see that just that they cannot get the same answer
 as
 >> the mooc or documentation.
 >>
 >> They will look for a language where the documentation matches what
 they
 >> get as they don't know if the documentation or their code is wrong.
 (and
 >> probably cast aspersions on the quality of what they are using)
 >>
 >> > Updating the screenshots for PBE5 was a big pain and I am sure
 there are
 >> > ones that are left that are still outdated showing 1.4 , which is
 at
 >> > least
 >> > 6 years old.
 >> >
 >>
 >> --
 >> Mark
 >>
 >>
 >


>

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Esteban Lorenzano]

in fact, Greece had a pretty hard dictatorship from '67 to '74

> On 21 Apr 2017, at 12:40, Dimitris Chloupis  wrote:
> 
> I think that 300 years of enslavement by the Ottoman Empire gave us (as a 
> nation) a pretty good idea , plus the Great Fire of Smyrna, plus Nazi 
> occupation etc. You assume too much. I was talking about Pharo by the way, 
> not politics.  
> 
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:32 PM Hernán Morales Durand 
> > wrote:
> 2017-04-21 5:10 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis  >:
> Resistance is futile
> 
> You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
> 
> The one thing that I find amazing is that we have like 58 messages already , 
> many of them complain about the dark theme and not one even bothered posting 
> a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one . How hard 
> it is to trigger a shortcut to capture an image so we who love the dark theme 
> can see why some people find it hard to use.  
> 
> And this is why I feel lucky that the deed is done and this is no 
> democracy very happy indeed :)
> 
> 
> You don't have ANY idea of how is to live without democracy.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Hernán
> 
>  
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:48 PM Ben Coman  > wrote:
> I see in 60467 that the deed is done.  Okay, so moving forward... be
> prepared ;) for a surge of feedback as a bunch of us
> dark-theme-newbies start using it in earnest.  I understand those that
> been using it a while already are obviously happy with how its tuned,
> and probably not many things can be accommodated, but there is one
> thing...
> 
> Maybe its that its 1AM, or its my astigmatism, but my first impression
> was a shock at the high contrast pure-white-on-black text - for the
> World Menu and System Browser - to the degree that my eyes felt
> crosseyed.  Particularly the title-bar-text was jarring.  Dimming it
> slightly made it *much* easier to focus.   Could
> dark-theme-connoisseurs try this out...
> 
> Pharo3DarkTheme>>textColor
> ^ Color veryLightGray lighter
> 
> 
> And wow!  That very bright green in TestRunner hurts.
> 
> 
> Other than that, so far it looks cool.
> 
> cheers -ben
> 
> 
> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:19 AM, Stephane Ducasse
> > wrote:
> > For the mooc we have normally an image: it is called Pharo 50.
> >
> > S.
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Mark Bestley  > > wrote:
> >>
> >> Dimitris Chloupis >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > --001a113a8620c74f7a054d5aba55
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >> >
> >> > Not before IMMEDIATELY realizing that all screenshots containing the
> >> > white
> >> > theme are outdated and will IMMEDIATELY prefer the dark ones that will
> >> > have
> >> > an updated view of the Pharo GUI compared to a screenshot that has the
> >> > white theme and it's outdated by two or more years.
> >> >
> >>
> >> No they will think it is for a different environment and waste time
> >> looking for a match.
> >>
> >> A beginner won't see that just that they cannot get the same answer as
> >> the mooc or documentation.
> >>
> >> They will look for a language where the documentation matches what they
> >> get as they don't know if the documentation or their code is wrong. (and
> >> probably cast aspersions on the quality of what they are using)
> >>
> >> > Updating the screenshots for PBE5 was a big pain and I am sure there are
> >> > ones that are left that are still outdated showing 1.4 , which is at
> >> > least
> >> > 6 years old.
> >> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
> >
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Ben Coman]

On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 4:10 PM, Dimitris Chloupis
 wrote:
> You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
>
> not one even bothered posting
> a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" , just one .

To rebut you, you haven't been paying attention :)  :P
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19941/Dark-Theme-overlapped-title-bars-need-to-be-distinctive

cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] changing default theme to DarkTheme

[Hernán Morales Durand]

Then don't talk about democracy, because you weren't born at Ottoman Empire
nor Nazi occupation, and many of us actually were born and lived under
military dictatorship.
So next time think twice before putting a smile besides "no democracy".



2017-04-21 7:40 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis :

> I think that 300 years of enslavement by the Ottoman Empire gave us (as a
> nation) a pretty good idea , plus the Great Fire of Smyrna, plus Nazi
> occupation etc. You assume too much. I was talking about Pharo by the way,
> not politics.
>
> On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 1:32 PM Hernán Morales Durand <
> hernan.mora...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2017-04-21 5:10 GMT-03:00 Dimitris Chloupis :
>>
>>> Resistance is futile
>>>
>>> You know what amazes me about this discussion ?
>>>
>>> The one thing that I find amazing is that we have like 58 messages
>>> already , many of them complain about the dark theme and not one even
>>> bothered posting a single screenshot demonstration all these "problems" ,
>>> just one . How hard it is to trigger a shortcut to capture an image so we
>>> who love the dark theme can see why some people find it hard to use.
>>>
>>> And this is why I feel lucky that the deed is done and this is no
>>> democracy very happy indeed :)
>>>
>>>
>> You don't have ANY idea of how is to live without democracy.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Hernán
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 8:48 PM Ben Coman  wrote:
>>>
 I see in 60467 that the deed is done.  Okay, so moving forward... be
 prepared ;) for a surge of feedback as a bunch of us
 dark-theme-newbies start using it in earnest.  I understand those that
 been using it a while already are obviously happy with how its tuned,
 and probably not many things can be accommodated, but there is one
 thing...

 Maybe its that its 1AM, or its my astigmatism, but my first impression
 was a shock at the high contrast pure-white-on-black text - for the
 World Menu and System Browser - to the degree that my eyes felt
 crosseyed.  Particularly the title-bar-text was jarring.  Dimming it
 slightly made it *much* easier to focus.   Could
 dark-theme-connoisseurs try this out...

 Pharo3DarkTheme>>textColor
 ^ Color veryLightGray lighter


 And wow!  That very bright green in TestRunner hurts.


 Other than that, so far it looks cool.

 cheers -ben


 On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 3:19 AM, Stephane Ducasse
  wrote:
 > For the mooc we have normally an image: it is called Pharo 50.
 >
 > S.
 >
 > On Mon, Apr 17, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Mark Bestley 
 wrote:
 >>
 >> Dimitris Chloupis 
 >> wrote:
 >>
 >> > --001a113a8620c74f7a054d5aba55
 >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 >> >
 >> > Not before IMMEDIATELY realizing that all screenshots containing
 the
 >> > white
 >> > theme are outdated and will IMMEDIATELY prefer the dark ones that
 will
 >> > have
 >> > an updated view of the Pharo GUI compared to a screenshot that has
 the
 >> > white theme and it's outdated by two or more years.
 >> >
 >>
 >> No they will think it is for a different environment and waste time
 >> looking for a match.
 >>
 >> A beginner won't see that just that they cannot get the same answer
 as
 >> the mooc or documentation.
 >>
 >> They will look for a language where the documentation matches what
 they
 >> get as they don't know if the documentation or their code is wrong.
 (and
 >> probably cast aspersions on the quality of what they are using)
 >>
 >> > Updating the screenshots for PBE5 was a big pain and I am sure
 there are
 >> > ones that are left that are still outdated showing 1.4 , which is
 at
 >> > least
 >> > 6 years old.
 >> >
 >>
 >> --
 >> Mark
 >>
 >>
 >