Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?

[John M McIntosh]

Although xCode makes much of that process easier it is just a GUI front end for 
a bunch of command line tools.

You can re-sign and submit an app from the command line for enterprise usage, 
no doubt the same for the store. Apple at one time had a utility app to submit 
apps to the store for people needed to sub 100’s of apps at a time.


John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 21:04, Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
 wrote:

> I'm more about wanting an iOS VM and to do that you need to build and sign 
> through Apple's tool set as far as I know.
>
> And the debugging experience is much more pleasant - especially when making 
> FFI calls into Apple's system libraries.
>
> CMake can build an Xcode project from a CMake build system I believe.  At 
> least there is a cross platform marine navigation project called OpenCPN 
> (written in C++ and which relies on wxWidgets) that does this.
>
> So I'm not arguing to have the official builds in Xcode, but if you want to 
> build an app and ship it on iPhone or Mac, Xcode is the build system you are 
> going to need to submit it to the App store.
>
>> On Oct 28, 2018, at 12:27 PM, Eliot Miranda  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Todd,
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:00 AM Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone have Xcode projects for building the VM on iOS or Mac?  Can 
>>> they share them or give me some tips for setting one up?
>>
>> First I'd like to know your use case.  I presume it;'s for debugging, but it 
>> may be more for browsing.  Can you say?  (Personally I find raw lldb 
>> adequate for debugging).
>>
>> Second, my reasons for not using Xcode projects for building the Mac VMs are 
>> that
>> - Xcode projects, being a serialization of an object graph, are difficult to 
>> edit, and they offer no parameterisation, so whereas there is one small set 
>> of makefiles (8 in all) for all of the 32-bit and 64-bit builds on Mac, 
>> there had to be a separate Xcode project for each build.  When adding Spur 
>> this was simply unsupportable
>> - clearly Xcode is not necessary for building, browsing, or debugging; 
>> people are able to accomplish all three tasks using other tools
>>
>> However, I do appreciate that Xcode is a more pleasant and higher-level GUI 
>> interface than the shell, make, lldb and one's favorite editor.  What I 
>> would support is a tool that created an Xcode project from Makefiles; such 
>> tools used to exist.  I'd love to see such a tool.  What I will fight 
>> against until my dying breath is any attempt to replace the Makefile based 
>> build system with Xcode.  I hope the reasons above justify why.
>>
>> _,,,^..^,,,_
>> best, Eliot

Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?

[Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---
I'm more about wanting an iOS VM and to do that you need to build and sign 
through Apple's tool set as far as I know.

And the debugging experience is much more pleasant - especially when making FFI 
calls into Apple's system libraries.

CMake can build an Xcode project from a CMake build system I believe.  At least 
there is a cross platform marine navigation project called OpenCPN (written in 
C++ and which relies on wxWidgets) that does this.

So I'm not arguing to have the official builds in Xcode, but if you want to 
build an app and ship it on iPhone or Mac, Xcode is the build system you are 
going to need to submit it to the App store.

> On Oct 28, 2018, at 12:27 PM, Eliot Miranda  wrote:
> 
> Hi Todd,
> 
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:00 AM Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
> mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
> Does anyone have Xcode projects for building the VM on iOS or Mac?  Can they 
> share them or give me some tips for setting one up?
> 
> First I'd like to know your use case.  I presume it;'s for debugging, but it 
> may be more for browsing.  Can you say?  (Personally I find raw lldb adequate 
> for debugging).
> 
> Second, my reasons for not using Xcode projects for building the Mac VMs are 
> that
> - Xcode projects, being a serialization of an object graph, are difficult to 
> edit, and they offer no parameterisation, so whereas there is one small set 
> of makefiles (8 in all) for all of the 32-bit and 64-bit builds on Mac, there 
> had to be a separate Xcode project for each build.  When adding Spur this was 
> simply unsupportable
> - clearly Xcode is not necessary for building, browsing, or debugging; people 
> are able to accomplish all three tasks using other tools
> 
> However, I do appreciate that Xcode is a more pleasant and higher-level GUI 
> interface than the shell, make, lldb and one's favorite editor.  What I would 
> support is a tool that created an Xcode project from Makefiles; such tools 
> used to exist.  I'd love to see such a tool.  What I will fight against until 
> my dying breath is any attempt to replace the Makefile based build system 
> with Xcode.  I hope the reasons above justify why.
> 
> _,,,^..^,,,_
> best, Eliot

--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?

[Eliot Miranda]

Hi Todd,

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:00 AM Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev <
pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> wrote:

> Does anyone have Xcode projects for building the VM on iOS or Mac?  Can
> they share them or give me some tips for setting one up?
>

First I'd like to know your use case.  I presume it;'s for debugging, but
it may be more for browsing.  Can you say?  (Personally I find raw lldb
adequate for debugging).

Second, my reasons for not using Xcode projects for building the Mac VMs
are that
- Xcode projects, being a serialization of an object graph, are difficult
to edit, and they offer no parameterisation, so whereas there is one small
set of makefiles (8 in all) for all of the 32-bit and 64-bit builds on Mac,
there had to be a separate Xcode project for each build.  When adding Spur
this was simply unsupportable
- clearly Xcode is not necessary for building, browsing, or debugging;
people are able to accomplish all three tasks using other tools

However, I do appreciate that Xcode is a more pleasant and higher-level GUI
interface than the shell, make, lldb and one's favorite editor.  What I
would support is a tool that created an Xcode project from Makefiles; such
tools used to exist.  I'd love to see such a tool.  What I will fight
against until my dying breath is any attempt to replace the Makefile based
build system with Xcode.  I hope the reasons above justify why.

_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot

Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?

[Esteban Lorenzano]

I’m sorry I forget to answer your mail :(
Anyway, my response was not something you wanted to hear: I maintained the iOS 
version of the VM and up to three years ago (before spur) it was working, but I 
didn’t try it since a lot of time and most of the work I did (who was based in 
CMakeMaker) is now not used anymore so I do not think they will work “out of 
the box” if needed.

I find sad that we have to depend on other’s Xcode projects to being able to do 
something, but well… is better than nothing :) 

Esteban

> On 26 Oct 2018, at 19:55, Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Todd Blanchard 
> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?
> Date: 26 October 2018 at 19:55:24 CEST
> To: John M McIntosh , Pharo Development List 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be super awesome!  Please let me know if/when you do.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Todd Blanchard
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:43 AM, John M McIntosh 
>> mailto:john...@smalltalkconsulting.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have one. I should see about adding it to a branch.
>> 
>> 
>> John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd  
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:39, Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
>> mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
>>> Does anyone have Xcode projects for building the VM on iOS or Mac? Can they 
>>> share them or give me some tips for setting one up? 
>>> 
>>> Thanks, 
>>> -Todd 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?

[Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev]

--- Begin Message ---
That would be super awesome!  Please let me know if/when you do.

Thanks,
-Todd Blanchard

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:43 AM, John M McIntosh 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have one. I should see about adding it to a branch.
> 
> 
> John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd  
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:39, Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
> mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org>> wrote:
>> Does anyone have Xcode projects for building the VM on iOS or Mac? Can they 
>> share them or give me some tips for setting one up? 
>> 
>> Thanks, 
>> -Todd 

--- End Message ---

Re: [Pharo-dev] Xcode projects for VM on iOS or Mac?

[John M McIntosh]

I have one. I should see about adding it to a branch.


John M. McIntosh. Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd 
https://www.linkedin.com/in/smalltalk

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:39, Todd Blanchard via Pharo-dev 
 wrote:

> Does anyone have Xcode projects for building the VM on iOS or Mac? Can they 
> share them or give me some tips for setting one up?
>
> Thanks,
> -Todd