[Phono-L] new L member
We have acquired a Widdicomb phonograph and was wondering if anyone can give us insight into its age etc? -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: IMG_7030sm.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104825 bytes URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20110126/31a7d745/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
There is one part of the description that is missing. How in the world did this so-called all original Standard F remain in this brand new, pristine condition all of these years. Was it locked in a Time Capsule some where ?? and then magically discovered to present to the General Public for sale on Ebay ?? The seller owes an explanation to the bidders as to where it came from, and why it still looks to be like New Dealer Stock fresh from the Edison Factory in West Orange. What did he do to it ?? That is the question, itobviously has been meticulously restored, but he needs to say that. To that effect, it is not an original Standard. Bruce - Original Message - From: Steve Andersen ander...@tampabay.rr.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:01:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I have been watching Firebottles auctions for 3 years. The seller's machines all have the same identical finish and luster on them. In my opinion, he resprays them. His auctions always bring values which are way our of line and the bidding historys have a pattern of the same person upping their bids several times near the end. If it looks like a duck... On Jan 25, 2011, at 9:52 PM, harvey kravitz wrote: I also followed this auction. I made a couple of posts in another forum on this topic. I can't believe how high this went. I can't sell a Standard for $300.00. Go figure. That seller must be laughing all the way to the bank. For that kind of money, you can get an Edison Opera.or a Victor VI. Harvey Kravitz From: Jay Horenstein jay.horenst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 6:42:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I didn't watch this auction..why did it command such a high price? On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Tim Gray timsanti...@northstate.netwrote: Wow! At least I know it was a honest auction. I have bought a couple of nice machines from the seller. I live 30 minutes from him and picked them up. He allowed me to see some of his other machines and big radio collection. his items are always very nice and they bring better than average prices. Tim http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrt=ncnma=trueitem=190474888084 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
This phonograph was rarely used, and the evidence of that is borne out in aspect of its appearance, regardless of the angle from which it is viewed. So the pristine like new condition of this phonograph is due entirely to the fact that it was Rarely Used ?? How does he know that? He obviously knows quite a bit about the history of this Phonograph. So why not detail that history as part of his description, after all a defined provable history of the machine could only enhance the listing, correct ?? Unless of course there is really some other more obvious reason, why this Edison Standard looks as good as it does. The wording here is indeed very slick indeed . - Original Message - From: DanKj ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:33:57 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph hmm ... His namesake was the author of Peter Pan ! - Original Message - From: The Farmers g...@usfamily.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:23 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I just looked at firebottles feedback and see that sirjamesbarrie bought the Edison, plus many other over-priced items. I don't know exactly who sirjamesbarrie is, but clicking his feedback shows a photo. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I've been reading this thread and the seller is a long time customer of mine. Along with well written Ebay listings and good photos he is extremely honest and will bend over backwards for his customers. If I remeber correctly this machine went to an international buyer and first thing the fellow did was over wind it and break the main spring. I ended up repairing this at no charge to the customer including a couple of other minor things discovered when I received it. The seller took care of all costs. While I can not speak for all his machines this one was original. While I do know the origin of it, I will not make it my business to say where it came from other than it was a fairly recent acquisition for the seller and the auction did not have any Never, never land bids. At least nothing that the seller had anything to do with. If all sellers were as honest and straight forward as this fellow I personally would still be buying on Ebay today. There isjunk being peddled on Ebay with poor descriptions and photos. I just had another of these Ebay purchases from another unfortunate Ebay buyer last week in my shop. Thank you, George Vollema Great Lakes Antique Phonograph Newaygo MI 49337-8556 www.victroladoctor.com - Original Message - From: harvey kravitz To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I also followed this auction. I made a couple of posts in another forum on this topic. I can't believe how high this went. I can't sell a Standard for $300.00. Go figure. That seller must be laughing all the way to the bank. For that kind of money, you can get an Edison Opera.or a Victor VI. Harvey Kravitz From: Jay Horenstein jay.horenst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 6:42:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I didn't watch this auction..why did it command such a high price? On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Tim Gray timsanti...@northstate.netwrote: Wow! At least I know it was a honest auction. I have bought a couple of nice machines from the seller. I live 30 minutes from him and picked them up. He allowed me to see some of his other machines and big radio collection. his items are always very nice and they bring better than average prices. Tim http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrt=ncnma=trueitem=190474888084 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] new L member
. Widdicomb -- Widdicomb Furniture Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan. December 1917. Other then the fact that the Widdicomb Phonograph was mfg. by the Widdicomb Furniture Company of Grand Rapids, Michigan and first advertised in the publication Talking Machine World in December of 1917, there is probably very little else know about this phonograph Unless you are able to do some research into the History of the Company. . I guess you could contact Tim Gracyk and see if you could obtain a copy of the Talking Machine World Advertisement , which certainly would be interesting to see, since you own one of their phonographs. Bruce - Original Message - From: Brian Kaiser bkkcom @comcast.net To: phono-l@ oldcrank .org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:07:27 AM Subject: [Phono-L] new L member We have acquired a Widdicomb phonograph and was wondering if anyone can give us insight into its age etc? -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: IMG _7030sm. jpg Type: image/ jpeg Size: 104825 bytes URL: http :// oldcrank .org/ pipermail /phono-l/attachments/20110126/31a7d745/attachment. jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http ://phono-l. oldcrank .org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] new L member
Lest we forget, at the hight of the acoustic wind-up phonograph craze, every one wanted a piece of the action. Any furniture company, or cabinet maker could get works for victrolas and in short order were in the phonograph business! To most collectors, these are considered off brand phonographs, and have spotty collector interest. Obviously the more ornate, or the better the wood, the more interest. I am from Wisconsin and just saw a Singerphone made in Milwaukee at a consignment shop. Never heard of it before, and also have no idea whether or not it has any historic connection to the Singer Sewing Machine Co.! Good luck! Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:45 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] new L member . Widdicomb -- Widdicomb Furniture Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan. December 1917. Other then the fact that the Widdicomb Phonograph was mfg. by the Widdicomb Furniture Company of Grand Rapids, Michigan and first advertised in the publication Talking Machine World in December of 1917, there is probably very little else know about this phonograph Unless you are able to do some research into the History of the Company. . I guess you could contact Tim Gracyk and see if you could obtain a copy of the Talking Machine World Advertisement , which certainly would be interesting to see, since you own one of their phonographs. Bruce - Original Message - From: Brian Kaiser bkkcom @comcast.net To: phono-l@ oldcrank .org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:07:27 AM Subject: [Phono-L] new L member We have acquired a Widdicomb phonograph and was wondering if anyone can give us insight into its age etc? -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: IMG _7030sm. jpg Type: image/ jpeg Size: 104825 bytes URL: http :// oldcrank .org/ pipermail /phono-l/attachments/20110126/31a7d745/attachment. jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http ://phono-l. oldcrank .org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] new L member
Maybe the new member could make some digitals available that we can view. I have never seen a Widdicomb Phonograph, and would love to see if it has any really ornate or really unique features that make it stand out among the hundreds of other short lived phonograph products that came and went in a very short time period back in the late 19teens and early 20s. Bruce - Original Message - From: Jeffry Young, D.O. jeff...@prevea.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 9:00:23 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] new L member Lest we forget, at the hight of the acoustic wind-up phonograph craze, every one wanted a piece of the action. Any furniture company, or cabinet maker could get works for victrolas and in short order were in the phonograph business! To most collectors, these are considered off brand phonographs, and have spotty collector interest. Obviously the more ornate, or the better the wood, the more interest. I am from Wisconsin and just saw a Singerphone made in Milwaukee at a consignment shop. Never heard of it before, and also have no idea whether or not it has any historic connection to the Singer Sewing Machine Co.! Good luck! Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:45 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] new L member . Widdicomb -- Widdicomb Furniture Company, Grand Rapids, Michigan. December 1917. Other then the fact that the Widdicomb Phonograph was mfg. by the Widdicomb Furniture Company of Grand Rapids, Michigan and first advertised in the publication Talking Machine World in December of 1917, there is probably very little else know about this phonograph Unless you are able to do some research into the History of the Company. . I guess you could contact Tim Gracyk and see if you could obtain a copy of the Talking Machine World Advertisement , which certainly would be interesting to see, since you own one of their phonographs. Bruce - Original Message - From: Brian Kaiser bkkcom @comcast.net To: phono-l@ oldcrank .org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:07:27 AM Subject: [Phono-L] new L member We have acquired a Widdicomb phonograph and was wondering if anyone can give us insight into its age etc? -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: IMG _7030sm. jpg Type: image/ jpeg Size: 104825 bytes URL: http :// oldcrank .org/ pipermail /phono-l/attachments/20110126/31a7d745/attachment. jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http ://phono-l. oldcrank .org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I will also chime in on this seller. I also know him personally, as we both are Zonophone guys. He has purchased machines from me at a discount, and within a month or two has had them on ebay. I have alsways looked carefully at the pictures. At least with the machines that I have sold to firebottles, no changes or alterations were made. He has a great gift for his descriptions on ebay. It can not be understated how much good, honest descriptions increase the final selling point of an item. Also, as I wanted to take better pictures for my auctions, I asked firebottles how he does it. It has taken him about 5 years to perfect this. He is not a professional photographer. By trial and error, he uses a curved white back drop, which I believe is just heavy paper. He uses 500 watt high intensity lighting, from multiple directions so there is little shadow. Also, you have to be able to manually white balance you camera, and use a tripod for steadiness, and good focus. I am sure there are some cross over collectors out there who are professional photographers that can comment on his photographs! Lastly, many American machines sell extremely well outside the United States. Prices are realized that we would never see in this country. Why do you think that Guido buys all those common American made machines to have shipped back across the pond? Because he has a market for them. These comments are just my own personal experiences. Please feel free to correct anything that I have said, if you have more or better knowledge about the situation. I do not want to state things in error. Thanks, Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:43 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I've been reading this thread and the seller is a long time customer of mine. Along with well written Ebay listings and good photos he is extremely honest and will bend over backwards for his customers. If I remeber correctly this machine went to an international buyer and first thing the fellow did was over wind it and break the main spring. I ended up repairing this at no charge to the customer including a couple of other minor things discovered when I received it. The seller took care of all costs. While I can not speak for all his machines this one was original. While I do know the origin of it, I will not make it my business to say where it came from other than it was a fairly recent acquisition for the seller and the auction did not have any Never, never land bids. At least nothing that the seller had anything to do with. If all sellers were as honest and straight forward as this fellow I personally would still be buying on Ebay today. There isjunk being peddled on Ebay with poor descriptions and photos. I just had another of these Ebay purchases from another unfortunate Ebay buyer last week in my shop. Thank you, George Vollema Great Lakes Antique Phonograph Newaygo MI 49337-8556 www.victroladoctor.com - Original Message - From: harvey kravitz To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I also followed this auction. I made a couple of posts in another forum on this topic. I can't believe how high this went. I can't sell a Standard for $300.00. Go figure. That seller must be laughing all the way to the bank. For that kind of money, you can get an Edison Opera.or a Victor VI. Harvey Kravitz From: Jay Horenstein jay.horenst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 6:42:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I didn't watch this auction..why did it command such a high price? On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Tim Gray timsanti...@northstate.netwrote: Wow! At least I know it was a honest auction. I have bought a couple of nice machines from the seller. I live 30 minutes from him and picked them up. He allowed me to see some of his other machines and big radio collection. his items are always very nice and they bring better than average prices. Tim http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrt=ncnma=trueitem=190474 888084 ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
The photo technique is a standard advertising photography process. Seamless paper background, proper color balance, proper gray scale rendering, focus, multi angle lighting. If you want to see the affect of these techniques look at the Fabrizio/Paul series of books. The lighting shows the depth of the finish. Take a copy of the description and either line out everything that is not an actual condition statement or highlight the actual condition statements. Take it apart line by line and word by word. Good photography coupled with a well written description is the secret. Same thing that sells cars. I have seen the many comments about the possibility of either over restoration or refinishing of the items from this seller but I have never seen or heard of any real physical proof. As the quality of the usual eBay photography and descriptions is so poor I can understand the skepticism when one is presented with a quality presentation. On 01/26/2011 08:15 AM, Jeffry Young, D.O. wrote: I will also chime in on this seller. I also know him personally, as we both are Zonophone guys. He has purchased machines from me at a discount, and within a month or two has had them on ebay. I have alsways looked carefully at the pictures. At least with the machines that I have sold to firebottles, no changes or alterations were made. He has a great gift for his descriptions on ebay. It can not be understated how much good, honest descriptions increase the final selling point of an item. Also, as I wanted to take better pictures for my auctions, I asked firebottles how he does it. It has taken him about 5 years to perfect this. He is not a professional photographer. By trial and error, he uses a curved white back drop, which I believe is just heavy paper. He uses 500 watt high intensity lighting, from multiple directions so there is little shadow. Also, you have to be able to manually white balance you camera, and use a tripod for steadiness, and good focus. I am sure there are some cross over collectors out there who are professional photographers that can comment on his photographs! Lastly, many American machines sell extremely well outside the United States. Prices are realized that we would never see in this country. Why do you think that Guido buys all those common American made machines to have shipped back across the pond? Because he has a market for them. These comments are just my own personal experiences. Please feel free to correct anything that I have said, if you have more or better knowledge about the situation. I do not want to state things in error. Thanks, Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:43 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I've been reading this thread and the seller is a long time customer of mine. Along with well written Ebay listings and good photos he is extremely honest and will bend over backwards for his customers. If I remeber correctly this machine went to an international buyer and first thing the fellow did was over wind it and break the main spring. I ended up repairing this at no charge to the customer including a couple of other minor things discovered when I received it. The seller took care of all costs. While I can not speak for all his machines this one was original. While I do know the origin of it, I will not make it my business to say where it came from other than it was a fairly recent acquisition for the seller and the auction did not have any Never, never land bids. At least nothing that the seller had anything to do with. If all sellers were as honest and straight forward as this fellow I personally would still be buying on Ebay today. There isjunk being peddled on Ebay with poor descriptions and photos. I just had another of these Ebay purchases from another unfortunate Ebay buyer last week in my shop. Thank you, George Vollema Great Lakes Antique Phonograph Newaygo MI 49337-8556 www.victroladoctor.com - Original Message - From: harvey kravitz To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I also followed this auction. I made a couple of posts in another forum on this topic. I can't believe how high this went. I can't sell a Standard for $300.00. Go figure. That seller must be laughing all the way to the bank. For that kind of money, you can get an Edison Opera.or a Victor VI. Harvey Kravitz From: Jay Horensteinjay.horenst...@gmail.com To: Antique Phonograph Listphono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 6:42:12 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I didn't watch this auction..why did it command such a high price? On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Tim
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
Here is another example of what can be done to sell ice boxes to Eskimos. http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-SINGER-66-LOTUS-EGYPTIAN-TREADLE-SEWING-MACHINE-/130479530488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e612fa1f8 Direct Item number. 130479530488 On 01/26/2011 08:15 AM, Jeffry Young, D.O. wrote: snip ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I think that the detailed description is one of the keys to successful selling on e-bay. I have never had the knack of doing that. = Lightfoot IA was an eBay seller with good feedback. He would take common 2 minute Edison gold molded records and sell them at $30 to $40 each. He was able to do this because of the ad, he told about the artists, the record, when it was made, the weather that day, by the time you read his ad you wanted that record. Records with low catalog numbers like 7 or 40 he pointed this out and they went high. On eBay the ad makes a big difference and with phono items you have to start the price low to get people to bid. Firebottles is a pro at what he does, I have written him several times and I have always gotten a courteous reply. I'll bet he had to sit down when he saw the final price. I do know of machines that have been bid up high and the buyer backed out. About five years ago some bozo put a standard A on eBay. This guy was not a collector or anyone we know. He was an antique dealer and the standard he was selling was so worn that it had absolutely no pinstriping at all and came with a dismal looking horn. He said this machine was mint and in all his 30 years as an antique dealer he had never seen one better and it sold for $750.00 to someone who had probably never seen a standard before. I have purchased a blank weight C on eBay for $80, it had no ad and the photos were poor, I bid the starting offer and was amazed I won. With a good ad and photos it would have gone for over $200 at the time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
This phonograph was rarely used, and the evidence of that is borne out in aspect of its appearance, regardless of the angle from which it is viewed. You can normally tell how much a phonograph has been played by the brass gears. Herman found a Triumph E and the small brass gears had no wear, the rest of the machine looked it, on my A the gears are badly worn, and the rest of the machine looks it. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
Thanks, Rich, for the mention of our books. It's funny - - when asking $50 or $70 for a book, we believed it was incumbent upon us to provide the best photography we could. (I think we improved over the years!) Yet, someone selling an item on eBay, for which they expect to receive hundreds or thousands of dollars, will post one or two fuzzy, out-of-focus images taken with their phone. Along with that, they may post either a 2-line description of what they think the item is, or several pages of pure fantasy. I've watched Firebottles's auctions too, and I've wondered what on earth is gong on. However, after reading first-hand testimonials of the seller's honesty, it appears something very different may be happening. Most everyone buying on eBay is aware of the potential pitfalls, and poor photos/poor descriptions simply decrease a buyer's confidence. This must have an effect on the final bid. Then a seller like Firebottles provides a SERVICE; the opportunity to see the item from all angles and to read an accurate description. Maybe global buyers are willing to pay - handsomely - for such a service and the confidence it inspires. How else can a seller move run-of-the-mill merchandise at such prices? Which begs the question - is the phonograph market really depressed, or is it suffering from the sloppy practices of most eBay sellers? Admittedly, show prices aren't high either, but relatively few people attend shows. I wonder if there were a few dozen sellers like Firebottles on eBay what might happen to the market...? Just a thought. George P. -Original Message- From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 10:03 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph The photo technique is a standard advertising photography process. Seamless paper background, proper color balance, proper gray scale rendering, focus, multi angle lighting. If you want to see the affect of these techniques look at the Fabrizio/Paul series of books. The lighting shows the depth of the finish. Take a copy of the description and either line out everything that is not an actual condition statement or highlight the actual condition statements. Take it apart line by line and word by word. Good photography coupled with a well written description is the secret. Same thing that sells cars. I have seen the many comments about the possibility of either over restoration or refinishing of the items from this seller but I have never seen or heard of any real physical proof. As the quality of the usual eBay photography and descriptions is so poor I can understand the skepticism when one is presented with a quality presentation. On 01/26/2011 08:15 AM, Jeffry Young, D.O. wrote: I will also chime in on this seller. I also know him personally, as we both are Zonophone guys. He has purchased machines from me at a discount, and within a month or two has had them on ebay. I have alsways looked carefully at the pictures. At least with the machines that I have sold to firebottles, no changes or alterations were made. He has a great gift for his descriptions on ebay. It can not be understated how much good, honest descriptions increase the final selling point of an item. Also, as I wanted to take better pictures for my auctions, I asked firebottles how he does it. It has taken him about 5 years to perfect this. He is not a professional photographer. By trial and error, he uses a curved white back drop, which I believe is just heavy paper. He uses 500 watt high intensity lighting, from multiple directions so there is little shadow. Also, you have to be able to manually white balance you camera, and use a tripod for steadiness, and good focus. I am sure there are some cross over collectors out there who are professional photographers that can comment on his photographs! Lastly, many American machines sell extremely well outside the United States. Prices are realized that we would never see in this country. Why do you think that Guido buys all those common American made machines to have shipped back across the pond? Because he has a market for them. These comments are just my own personal experiences. Please feel free to correct anything that I have said, if you have more or better knowledge about the situation. I do not want to state things in error. Thanks, Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:43 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph I've been reading this thread and the seller is a long time customer of mine. Along with well written Ebay listings and good photos he is extremely honest and will bend over backwards for his
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
Well I won't argue the seller did good. I would argue that description and photos help but six times the money? Welcome to the world of eBay. I am to lazy to look it up and don't remember but would that machine come with an H reproducer? I don't think so. I posted to that earlier. Would it come with a Triumph horn? Maybe My point is in Oldcranky world for 5/6 times the money it has to be correct. Perhaps it is but the H is a problem. IMHO. Good for him. There is an F standard kicking around my area but sadly refinished, but has an S on it if I remember correctly. I could pick it up if anyone wantsI'll need a thousand dollars for my time so 2K ought to do it. Hey I bet the seller will chip in a hundred for me when I offer him $1000. LOL. we've seen this all before. Remember the lady buying DD at crazy prices. He found a honey hole that's all. Mike Oldcranky On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: I think that the detailed description is one of the keys to successful selling on e-bay. I have never had the knack of doing that. = Lightfoot IA was an eBay seller with good feedback. He would take common 2 minute Edison gold molded records and sell them at $30 to $40 each. He was able to do this because of the ad, he told about the artists, the record, when it was made, the weather that day, by the time you read his ad you wanted that record. Records with low catalog numbers like 7 or 40 he pointed this out and they went high. On eBay the ad makes a big difference and with phono items you have to start the price low to get people to bid. Firebottles is a pro at what he does, I have written him several times and I have always gotten a courteous reply. I'll bet he had to sit down when he saw the final price. I do know of machines that have been bid up high and the buyer backed out. About five years ago some bozo put a standard A on eBay. This guy was not a collector or anyone we know. He was an antique dealer and the standard he was selling was so worn that it had absolutely no pinstriping at all and came with a dismal looking horn. He said this machine was mint and in all his 30 years as an antique dealer he had never seen one better and it sold for $750.00 to someone who had probably never seen a standard before. I have purchased a blank weight C on eBay for $80, it had no ad and the photos were poor, I bid the starting offer and was amazed I won. With a good ad and photos it would have gone for over $200 at the time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
Wow -- what a surprise lay in store for me when I opened my email inbox this morning! Glad I skipped the industrial strength java or they'd be carting me off to Mercy General right now. George Vollema Jeff Young -- thank you. Tom -- thank you, too. Tim -- thank you for chiming in, as someone else who knows me. Rich -- yes, a good write-up will (usually) go a long way. And yes, the photo technique is widespread in advertising and similar to that found in the Fabrizio/Paul books, which I've long admired, as have (obviously) countless others. In fact, I first learned of the technique from the late Peter Schiffer, their publisher, who six or seven years ago asked me to write a book for him about early wireless gizmos. It was a project I started with great enthusiasm but unfortunately never got around to finishing (I may have learned Tim's and George's photography technique, but I don't have their discipline or anything close to it.) Edward -- yes, the more clear photos, the better. Harvey -- agreed; it was a lot of dough, but it was a legitimate auction. As anyone who knows me knows (and many of you on this forum do), they're all legitimate auctions: phonos, wireless sets, early electrical apparatus, etc. George Paul -- Yes, definitely. I believe that if you take the time to build it, they'll still come -- both on ebay and elsewhere (eg, Tim's great Phonophan website). John Robles, Steve Anderson and Bruce -- I don't think I've met any of you (although, Steve, I recall seeing you at your table in Orlando a couple of years ago), but I'm sure you're all more charitable people in person than your pile-on posts would lead me to believe. John especially. Anybody who went to the lengths that you went to save the life of your pet clearly has his heart in the right place. Everybody else -- happy Australia Day (at least I think it's today). cheers, Grant (firebottles) In a message dated 1/26/2011 10:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gpaul2...@aol.com writes: Thanks, Rich, for the mention of our books. It's funny - - when asking $50 or $70 for a book, we believed it was incumbent upon us to provide the best photography we could. (I think we improved over the years!) Yet, someone selling an item on eBay, for which they expect to receive hundreds or thousands of dollars, will post one or two fuzzy, out-of-focus images taken with their phone. Along with that, they may post either a 2-line description of what they think the item is, or several pages of pure fantasy. I've watched Firebottles's auctions too, and I've wondered what on earth is gong on. However, after reading first-hand testimonials of the seller's honesty, it appears something very different may be happening. Most everyone buying on eBay is aware of the potential pitfalls, and poor photos/poor descriptions simply decrease a buyer's confidence. This must have an effect on the final bid. Then a seller like Firebottles provides a SERVICE; the opportunity to see the item from all angles and to read an accurate description. Maybe global buyers are willing to pay - handsomely - for such a service and the confidence it inspires. How else can a seller move run-of-the-mill merchandise at such prices? Which begs the question - is the phonograph market really depressed, or is it suffering from the sloppy practices of most eBay sellers? Admittedly, show prices aren't high either, but relatively few people attend shows. I wonder if there were a few dozen sellers like Firebottles on eBay what might happen to the market...? Just a thought. George P. -Original Message- From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 10:03 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph The photo technique is a standard advertising photography process. Seamless paper background, proper color balance, proper gray scale rendering, focus, multi angle lighting. If you want to see the affect of these techniques look at the Fabrizio/Paul series of books. The lighting shows the depth of the finish. Take a copy of the description and either line out everything that is not an actual condition statement or highlight the actual condition statements. Take it apart line by line and word by word. Good photography coupled with a well written description is the secret. Same thing that sells cars. I have seen the many comments about the possibility of either over restoration or refinishing of the items from this seller but I have never seen or heard of any real physical proof. As the quality of the usual eBay photography and descriptions is so poor I can understand the skepticism when one is presented with a quality presentation. On 01/26/2011 08:15 AM, Jeffry Young, D.O. wrote: I will also chime in on this seller.
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
This is all based on a potentially faulty premise that the buyer will actually follow through with the purchase. When I upgraded my iPhone from a 3GS to a 4 I put the 3GS on ebay, some foreign buyer bid up to 600 bucks for the device, which was several hundred dollars more than it was worth. When it came time to collect it was just some bogus person who never returned emails or submitted payment. Someone may have bid that by mistake or fraudulently, does not mean there is anything wrong with the seller. That is a very nice Edison Standard, I can see why someone might pay a premium if they were looking for it as a centerpiece for a room or something. However $1200-1500 would already be quite a premium much less 6100.. Bill On 1/26/11 9:54 AM, Mike Stitt smst...@gmail.com wrote: Well I won't argue the seller did good. I would argue that description and photos help but six times the money? Welcome to the world of eBay. I am to lazy to look it up and don't remember but would that machine come with an H reproducer? I don't think so. I posted to that earlier. Would it come with a Triumph horn? Maybe My point is in Oldcranky world for 5/6 times the money it has to be correct. Perhaps it is but the H is a problem. IMHO. Good for him. There is an F standard kicking around my area but sadly refinished, but has an S on it if I remember correctly. I could pick it up if anyone wantsI'll need a thousand dollars for my time so 2K ought to do it. Hey I bet the seller will chip in a hundred for me when I offer him $1000. LOL. we've seen this all before. Remember the lady buying DD at crazy prices. He found a honey hole that's all. Mike Oldcranky On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Steven Medved steve_nor...@msn.com wrote: I think that the detailed description is one of the keys to successful selling on e-bay. I have never had the knack of doing that. = Lightfoot IA was an eBay seller with good feedback. He would take common 2 minute Edison gold molded records and sell them at $30 to $40 each. He was able to do this because of the ad, he told about the artists, the record, when it was made, the weather that day, by the time you read his ad you wanted that record. Records with low catalog numbers like 7 or 40 he pointed this out and they went high. On eBay the ad makes a big difference and with phono items you have to start the price low to get people to bid. Firebottles is a pro at what he does, I have written him several times and I have always gotten a courteous reply. I'll bet he had to sit down when he saw the final price. I do know of machines that have been bid up high and the buyer backed out. About five years ago some bozo put a standard A on eBay. This guy was not a collector or anyone we know. He was an antique dealer and the standard he was selling was so worn that it had absolutely no pinstriping at all and came with a dismal looking horn. He said this machine was mint and in all his 30 years as an antique dealer he had never seen one better and it sold for $750.00 to someone who had probably never seen a standard before. I have purchased a blank weight C on eBay for $80, it had no ad and the photos were poor, I bid the starting offer and was amazed I won. With a good ad and photos it would have gone for over $200 at the time. Steve ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
The Standard F was the last of the Standard series to be produced so they will command more money, but $6100.00? I do recall a Standard F was sold by a local auction house in North Carolina in May 2009 for $900 or so not too far from where the ebay Standard F was sold. The standard F at auction was very dirty, dark and it came with the original Model S reproducer. I can't say this is the same machine. The one on ebay came with a model H and not the S it was supposed to come with. So it appears along the way the reproducer and carriage maybe were switched out. -Original Message- From: DanKj ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:46 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph Yes, I keep his listings on my Favorites list, because he always has interesting stuff with clear, numerous pics ! Eebae is great for collecting pics of things phonographic. I just need to resist the urge to bid for the heckuvvit, because too many times I've been surprised won something I didn't REALLY need (the $118 perfect Thinkpad and yet another disc 'Standard A' come to mind... ) - Original Message - From: Tim Gray timsanti...@northstate.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph Wow! At least I know it was a honest auction. I have bought a couple of nice machines from the seller. I live 30 minutes from him and picked them up. He allowed me to see some of his other machines and big radio collection. his items are always very nice and they bring better than average prices. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
now the book by frow and al shows a g anyone seen a g In a message dated 1/26/2011 11:41:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, phonofo...@aol.com writes: The Standard F was the last of the Standard series to be produced so they will command more money, but $6100.00? I do recall a Standard F was sold by a local auction house in North Carolina in May 2009 for $900 or so not too far from where the ebay Standard F was sold. The standard F at auction was very dirty, dark and it came with the original Model S reproducer. I can't say this is the same machine. The one on ebay came with a model H and not the S it was supposed to come with. So it appears along the way the reproducer and carriage maybe were switched out. -Original Message- From: DanKj ediso...@verizon.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tue, Jan 25, 2011 11:46 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph Yes, I keep his listings on my Favorites list, because he always has interesting stuff with clear, numerous pics ! Eebae is great for collecting pics of things phonographic. I just need to resist the urge to bid for the heckuvvit, because too many times I've been surprised won something I didn't REALLY need (the $118 perfect Thinkpad and yet another disc 'Standard A' come to mind... ) - Original Message - From: Tim Gray timsanti...@northstate.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:58 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph Wow! At least I know it was a honest auction. I have bought a couple of nice machines from the seller. I live 30 minutes from him and picked them up. He allowed me to see some of his other machines and big radio collection. his items are always very nice and they bring better than average prices. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
Grant, can you tell us any more about the provenance of the machine, and how it managed to be kept in such remarkable condition over the past 100 years. You mention in your description that it hadn't been played much. Is there a history to this this machine that you can share ? Just curious. - Original Message - From: muldwo...@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph Wow -- what a surprise lay in store for me when I opened my email inbox this morning! Glad I skipped the industrial strength java or they'd be carting me off to Mercy General right now. George Vollema Jeff Young -- thank you. Tom -- thank you, too. Tim -- thank you for chiming in, as someone else who knows me. Rich -- yes, a good write-up will (usually) go a long way. And yes, the photo technique is widespread in advertising and similar to that found in the Fabrizio/Paul books, which I've long admired, as have (obviously) countless others. In fact, I first learned of the technique from the late Peter Schiffer, their publisher, who six or seven years ago asked me to write a book for him about early wireless gizmos. It was a project I started with great enthusiasm but unfortunately never got around to finishing (I may have learned Tim's and George's photography technique, but I don't have their discipline or anything close to it.) Edward -- yes, the more clear photos, the better. Harvey -- agreed; it was a lot of dough, but it was a legitimate auction. As anyone who knows me knows (and many of you on this forum do), they're all legitimate auctions: phonos, wireless sets, early electrical apparatus, etc. George Paul -- Yes, definitely. I believe that if you take the time to build it, they'll still come -- both on ebay and elsewhere (eg, Tim's great Phonophan website). John Robles, Steve Anderson and Bruce -- I don't think I've met any of you (although, Steve, I recall seeing you at your table in Orlando a couple of years ago), but I'm sure you're all more charitable people in person than your pile-on posts would lead me to believe. John especially. Anybody who went to the lengths that you went to save the life of your pet clearly has his heart in the right place. Everybody else -- happy Australia Day (at least I think it's today). cheers, Grant (firebottles) In a message dated 1/26/2011 10:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gpaul2...@aol.com writes: Thanks, Rich, for the mention of our books. It's funny - - when asking $50 or $70 for a book, we believed it was incumbent upon us to provide the best photography we could. (I think we improved over the years!) Yet, someone selling an item on eBay, for which they expect to receive hundreds or thousands of dollars, will post one or two fuzzy, out-of-focus images taken with their phone. Along with that, they may post either a 2-line description of what they think the item is, or several pages of pure fantasy. I've watched Firebottles's auctions too, and I've wondered what on earth is gong on. However, after reading first-hand testimonials of the seller's honesty, it appears something very different may be happening. Most everyone buying on eBay is aware of the potential pitfalls, and poor photos/poor descriptions simply decrease a buyer's confidence. This must have an effect on the final bid. Then a seller like Firebottles provides a SERVICE; the opportunity to see the item from all angles and to read an accurate description. Maybe global buyers are willing to pay - handsomely - for such a service and the confidence it inspires. How else can a seller move run-of-the-mill merchandise at such prices? Which begs the question - is the phonograph market really depressed, or is it suffering from the sloppy practices of most eBay sellers? Admittedly, show prices aren't high either, but relatively few people attend shows. I wonder if there were a few dozen sellers like Firebottles on eBay what might happen to the market...? Just a thought. George P. -Original Message- From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 10:03 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph The photo technique is a standard advertising photography process. Seamless paper background, proper color balance, proper gray scale rendering, focus, multi angle lighting. If you want to see the affect of these techniques look at the Fabrizio/Paul series of books. The lighting shows the depth of the finish. Take a copy of the description and either line out everything that is not an actual condition statement or highlight the actual condition statements. Take it apart line by line and word by word. Good photography coupled with a well written description is the secret. Same thing that sells cars. I have seen the many comments about the
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
Starting the bidding at $9.95 with no reserve can get a bidding frenzy going which can help take the price to the moon. If he would have started at $3,000.00 I am sure most of us would think he's nuts. My question is what is the definition of original condition as it pertains to an antique? Is it original condition if all the parts are original, but the surface finish has been tweaked? If someone has touched up scratches is it still original condition? Is it only original if it is still in the unopened box? If someone takes the dust off does that mean it is no longer original? If someone can make an antique look the way it did when it came off the factory floor can they call it original as long as it has no reproduction parts? My guess is most of us use the term original condition when an antique still has all it's original surface and parts and has not been restored. The motor may have been adjusted and oiled and the surface may have been dusted, but that is about it. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Widdicomb
Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] new L member
That is a good looking phonograph. I have a Widdicomb catalog, and you appear to have their Queen Anne model, which sold for $165 new (spring motor) or $190 with the electric motor. I would guess that your phonograph dates from 1920-1925. Widdicomb was a quality cabinet maker from Grand Rapids that remained in business at least into the 1950s. On WednesdayJanuary 26, 2011, at January2620114:07 AM, Brian Kaiser wrote: We have acquired a Widdicomb phonograph and was wondering if anyone can give us insight into its age etc? -- ATTACHMENT -- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: IMG_7030sm.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 104825 bytes URL: http://oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20110126/31a7d745/attachment.jpg ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
After the fundamental patents owned by the Victor Talking Machine Company expired in 1917, anyone could enter the lateral-groove disc record/phonograph record business without fear of being sued into bankruptcy by Victor's legal department. Dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers answered the call. The Widdicomb was produced sometime between 1917-1924 by a company in Grand Rapids that either was or had access to a furniture factory (Grand Rapids being a center of furniture manufacture). The audio parts and motors were usually obtained from a third-party maker or importer. From: bkk...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
The cabinet looks very nice. but there does not appear to be any other unique feature that really makes it special or separates it or makes it more special then any of the other countless Phonograph Marketing wanabees, that chose to enter the field and compete against the big three (Victor, Columbia, and Edison), as well as the more established and successful firms like Sonora or Pathe etc. Thus this firm and its phonographs went the way of the DoDo bird within a very short time span. How many were sold and how many still remain in existence, it left up to speculation. Bruce - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:23:46 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb After the fundamental patents owned by the Victor Talking Machine Company expired in 1917, anyone could enter the lateral-groove disc record/phonograph record business without fear of being sued into bankruptcy by Victor's legal department. Dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers answered the call. The Widdicomb was produced sometime between 1917-1924 by a company in Grand Rapids that either was or had access to a furniture factory (Grand Rapids being a center of furniture manufacture). The audio parts and motors were usually obtained from a third-party maker or importer. From: bkk...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
http://www.historygrandrapids.org/learn.php?id=33 http://www.grpl.org/wiki/images/017.pdf Lots of info available from Grand Rapids public library. They were a prominent furniture company, who probably went into the rush to the phono biz as a sideline. Bill On 1/26/11 1:36 PM, bruce78...@comcast.net bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: The cabinet looks very nice. but there does not appear to be any other unique feature that really makes it special or separates it or makes it more special then any of the other countless Phonograph Marketing wanabees, that chose to enter the field and compete against the big three (Victor, Columbia, and Edison), as well as the more established and successful firms like Sonora or Pathe etc. Thus this firm and its phonographs went the way of the DoDo bird within a very short time span. How many were sold and how many still remain in existence, it left up to speculation. Bruce - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:23:46 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb After the fundamental patents owned by the Victor Talking Machine Company expired in 1917, anyone could enter the lateral-groove disc record/phonograph record business without fear of being sued into bankruptcy by Victor's legal department. Dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers answered the call. The Widdicomb was produced sometime between 1917-1924 by a company in Grand Rapids that either was or had access to a furniture factory (Grand Rapids being a center of furniture manufacture). The audio parts and motors were usually obtained from a third-party maker or importer. From: bkk...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove
I invite you to download a free complimentary copy of In The Groove magazine. If you haven't seen the Michigan Antique Phonograph Society's new and improved publication recently, you are in for a treat. Just visit our legacy web site: www.MichiganAntiquePhonographSociety.org and click on the Sample Issue of In The Groove image to download a PDF version of your own. Since we changed to a Bi-Monthly publication on August 2010, we have expanded our article offerings enormously. Each issue is between 36 to 44 pages in length and printed on glossy 70 pound paper. The new covers are printed in full color on 80 pound cover stock. We have attracted a wide variety of authors from the well known to the first time published. I think you'll be impressed. Thank you, Tim McCormick, President Michigan Antique Phonograph Society presid...@maps-itg.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
Interesting grill on that one. I've had that same tone arm on a machine with a different name. ISTR that the pivot area is rather delicate and that there are little inserts (celluloid or composite material maybe?) through which the screws pass. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Brian Kaiser Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:06 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I sold a machine to the seller and it showed up on eBay looking all nice and shiny like all the other rarely used machines. It was not in that condition when I sold it. In a message dated 1/26/2011 10:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gpaul2...@aol.com writes: Thanks, Rich, for the mention of our books. It's funny - - when asking $50 or $70 for a book, we believed it was incumbent upon us to provide the best photography we could. (I think we improved over the years!) Yet, someone selling an item on eBay, for which they expect to receive hundreds or thousands of dollars, will post one or two fuzzy, out-of-focus images taken with their phone. Along with that, they may post either a 2-line description of what they think the item is, or several pages of pure fantasy. I've watched Firebottles's auctions too, and I've wondered what on earth is gong on. However, after reading first-hand testimonials of the seller's honesty, it appears something very different may be happening. Most everyone buying on eBay is aware of the potential pitfalls, and poor photos/poor descriptions simply decrease a buyer's confidence. This must have an effect on the final bid. Then a seller like Firebottles provides a SERVICE; the opportunity to see the item from all angles and to read an accurate description. Maybe global buyers are willing to pay - handsomely - for such a service and the confidence it inspires. How else can a seller move run-of-the-mill merchandise at such prices? Which begs the question - is the phonograph market really depressed, or is it suffering from the sloppy practices of most eBay sellers? Admittedly, show prices aren't high either, but relatively few people attend shows. I wonder if there were a few dozen sellers like Firebottles on eBay what might happen to the market...? Just a thought. George P. -Original Message- From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 10:03 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph The photo technique is a standard advertising photography process. Seamless paper background, proper color balance, proper gray scale rendering, focus, multi angle lighting. If you want to see the affect of these techniques look at the Fabrizio/Paul series of books. The lighting shows the depth of the finish. Take a copy of the description and either line out everything that is not an actual condition statement or highlight the actual condition statements. Take it apart line by line and word by word. Good photography coupled with a well written description is the secret. Same thing that sells cars. I have seen the many comments about the possibility of either over restoration or refinishing of the items from this seller but I have never seen or heard of any real physical proof. As the quality of the usual eBay photography and descriptions is so poor I can understand the skepticism when one is presented with a quality presentation. On 01/26/2011 08:15 AM, Jeffry Young, D.O. wrote: I will also chime in on this seller. I also know him personally, as we both are Zonophone guys. He has purchased machines from me at a discount, and within a month or two has had them on ebay. I have alsways looked carefully at the pictures. At least with the machines that I have sold to firebottles, no changes or alterations were made. He has a great gift for his descriptions on ebay. It can not be understated how much good, honest descriptions increase the final selling point of an item. Also, as I wanted to take better pictures for my auctions, I asked firebottles how he does it. It has taken him about 5 years to perfect this. He is not a professional photographer. By trial and error, he uses a curved white back drop, which I believe is just heavy paper. He uses 500 watt high intensity lighting, from multiple directions so there is little shadow. Also, you have to be able to manually white balance you camera, and use a tripod for steadiness, and good focus. I am sure there are some cross over collectors out there who are professional photographers that can comment on his photographs! Lastly, many American machines sell extremely well outside the United States. Prices are realized that we would never see in this country. Why do you think that Guido buys all those common American made machines to have shipped back across the pond? Because he has a market for them. These comments are just my own personal experiences. Please feel free to correct anything that I have said, if you have more or better knowledge about the situation. I do not want to state things in error. Thanks, Jeff Wisconsin -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of George
Re: [Phono-L] $6100.01 Edison Standard Phonograph
I think I have only seen one on eBay. now the book by frow and al shows a g anyone seen a g ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove
Tim, I must thank you for all the hard work you put into ITG.The format is pleasing to the eye and easy to read. The photos are bright and clear. The articles are very scholarly. Keep up the great work, Harvey Kravitz From: Tim McCormick d...@themccormicks.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 12:18:29 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove I invite you to download a free complimentary copy of In The Groove magazine. If you haven't seen the Michigan Antique Phonograph Society's new and improved publication recently, you are in for a treat. Just visit our legacy web site: www.MichiganAntiquePhonographSociety.org and click on the Sample Issue of In The Groove image to download a PDF version of your own. Since we changed to a Bi-Monthly publication on August 2010, we have expanded our article offerings enormously. Each issue is between 36 to 44 pages in length and printed on glossy 70 pound paper. The new covers are printed in full color on 80 pound cover stock. We have attracted a wide variety of authors from the well known to the first time published. I think you'll be impressed. Thank you, Tim McCormick, President Michigan Antique Phonograph Society presid...@maps-itg.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove/CAPS Soundbox
Tim has done a great job with the improvements to ITG! For those not aware, CAPS has had a complementary issue of the Soundbox on their website for some time. It is located at: http://www.antiquephono.org/files/Download/Sound%20Box.pdf We also now offer PayPal for buying memberships or ordering CAPS products. The membership page is at: http://www.antiquephono.org/JoinUs.html and CAPS products can be found at: http://www.antiquephono.org/OnlineStore.html To keep up on current CAPS events, you can also join us on Facebook at the group: California Antique Phonograph Society Bruce Peterson, CAPS President -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of harvey kravitz Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:40 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove Tim, I must thank you for all the hard work you put into ITG.The format is pleasing to the eye and easy to read. The photos are bright and clear. The articles are very scholarly. Keep up the great work, Harvey Kravitz From: Tim McCormick d...@themccormicks.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 12:18:29 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove I invite you to download a free complimentary copy of In The Groove magazine. If you haven't seen the Michigan Antique Phonograph Society's new and improved publication recently, you are in for a treat. Just visit our legacy web site: www.MichiganAntiquePhonographSociety.org and click on the Sample Issue of In The Groove image to download a PDF version of your own. Since we changed to a Bi-Monthly publication on August 2010, we have expanded our article offerings enormously. Each issue is between 36 to 44 pages in length and printed on glossy 70 pound paper. The new covers are printed in full color on 80 pound cover stock. We have attracted a wide variety of authors from the well known to the first time published. I think you'll be impressed. Thank you, Tim McCormick, President Michigan Antique Phonograph Society presid...@maps-itg.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove
Harvey, Thank you for your kind compliments. When I took over as editor, I had no idea I would be so awestruck by all the fantastic submissions generously provided by some of the most enjoyable and knowledgeable people on earth. Yes, the publication is a lot of work, but very gratifying. We firmly believe that the antique phonograph community needs to share our knowledge and experience or all of this amazing information will simply die with us. We hope to attract new sources of authors, to publish their articles and stories within In The Groove. Our membership is growing daily. Some of these new members never knew antique phonograph societies even existed before discovering MAPS. We're having fun. Thanks, Tim McCormick www.MAPS-ITG.org -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of harvey kravitz Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:40 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove Tim, I must thank you for all the hard work you put into ITG.The format is pleasing to the eye and easy to read. The photos are bright and clear. The articles are very scholarly. Keep up the great work, Harvey Kravitz From: Tim McCormick d...@themccormicks.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 12:18:29 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Free New and Improved - In The Groove I invite you to download a free complimentary copy of In The Groove magazine. If you haven't seen the Michigan Antique Phonograph Society's new and improved publication recently, you are in for a treat. Just visit our legacy web site: www.MichiganAntiquePhonographSociety.org and click on the Sample Issue of In The Groove image to download a PDF version of your own. Since we changed to a Bi-Monthly publication on August 2010, we have expanded our article offerings enormously. Each issue is between 36 to 44 pages in length and printed on glossy 70 pound paper. The new covers are printed in full color on 80 pound cover stock. We have attracted a wide variety of authors from the well known to the first time published. I think you'll be impressed. Thank you, Tim McCormick, President Michigan Antique Phonograph Society presid...@maps-itg.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
thanks Bill for the info.I also found the Library links a few days agosame conclusion as yoursI'll keep searching. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:41 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb The Widdicomb Family sold the Company and severed their relationship to the firm in 1916, just as the firm was about get into the Phonograph business. There appears to be nothing in the on line info you refer to about the phonograph venture. I perused it and nothing jumps out at me. You probably would have to go into the individual ledgers and written history at the Library in order to actually see in anything still exists about the details of the phonograph venture. Bruce - Original Message - From: Bill Taney b...@taney.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:52:48 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb http://www.historygrandrapids.org/learn.php?id=33 http://www.grpl.org/wiki/images/017.pdf Lots of info available from Grand Rapids public library. They were a prominent furniture company, who probably went into the rush to the phono biz as a sideline. Bill On 1/26/11 1:36 PM, bruce78...@comcast.net bruce78...@comcast.net wrote: The cabinet looks very nice. but there does not appear to be any other unique feature that really makes it special or separates it or makes it more special then any of the other countless Phonograph Marketing wanabees, that chose to enter the field and compete against the big three (Victor, Columbia, and Edison), as well as the more established and successful firms like Sonora or Pathe etc. Thus this firm and its phonographs went the way of the DoDo bird within a very short time span. How many were sold and how many still remain in existence, it left up to speculation. Bruce - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:23:46 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb After the fundamental patents owned by the Victor Talking Machine Company expired in 1917, anyone could enter the lateral-groove disc record/phonograph record business without fear of being sued into bankruptcy by Victor's legal department. Dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers answered the call. The Widdicomb was produced sometime between 1917-1924 by a company in Grand Rapids that either was or had access to a furniture factory (Grand Rapids being a center of furniture manufacture). The audio parts and motors were usually obtained from a third-party maker or importer. From: bkk...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog
Hi All, Don't know if this will help at all . . . but I do have an original Widdicomb Phonograph catalog. If anyone was interested I could make copies available. :) Wayne H Living Life is not about making money . . . it is about creating memories that warm the soul. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
Thanks Bruce for the response.its our first phonograph and we are happy to have it. Next step is to find someone to repair the turntable. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78...@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:37 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb The cabinet looks very nice. but there does not appear to be any other unique feature that really makes it special or separates it or makes it more special then any of the other countless Phonograph Marketing wanabees, that chose to enter the field and compete against the big three (Victor, Columbia, and Edison), as well as the more established and successful firms like Sonora or Pathe etc. Thus this firm and its phonographs went the way of the DoDo bird within a very short time span. How many were sold and how many still remain in existence, it left up to speculation. Bruce - Original Message - From: John Maeder appywan...@hotmail.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:23:46 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb After the fundamental patents owned by the Victor Talking Machine Company expired in 1917, anyone could enter the lateral-groove disc record/phonograph record business without fear of being sued into bankruptcy by Victor's legal department. Dozens if not hundreds of manufacturers answered the call. The Widdicomb was produced sometime between 1917-1924 by a company in Grand Rapids that either was or had access to a furniture factory (Grand Rapids being a center of furniture manufacture). The audio parts and motors were usually obtained from a third-party maker or importer. From: bkk...@comcast.net To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2011 14:05:57 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog
I would love to have (purchase ) a copy of the catalog.especially if it listed the Widdicomb that we have! -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of wayne holznagel Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:42 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog Hi All, Don't know if this will help at all . . . but I do have an original Widdicomb Phonograph catalog. If anyone was interested I could make copies available. :) Wayne H Living Life is not about making money . . . it is about creating memories that warm the soul. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog
I would love to have a file copy of that catalog. It is interesting to see what some of those off brand Companies had to offer . Thanks for offering. Bruce - Original Message - From: wayne holznagel ethanu...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:42:14 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog Hi All, Don't know if this will help at all . . . but I do have an original Widdicomb Phonograph catalog. If anyone was interested I could make copies available. :) Wayne H Living Life is not about making money . . . it is about creating memories that warm the soul. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog
Hi Wayne, I'd be interested in a copy. Let me know how much it will cost. Harvey Kravitz From: wayne holznagel ethanu...@yahoo.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 2:42:14 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Catalog Hi All, Don't know if this will help at all . . . but I do have an original Widdicomb Phonograph catalog. If anyone was interested I could make copies available. :) Wayne H Living Life is not about making money . . . it is about creating memories that warm the soul. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb
The arm was on a Franklin or a Nightingale phonograph, neither of which do a own any longer. -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Brian Kaiser Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 5:43 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Thanks Ron for the reply. Do you recall who made the tone arm on your machine?..maybe I can piece the history together -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ron L'Herault Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:39 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Interesting grill on that one. I've had that same tone arm on a machine with a different name. ISTR that the pivot area is rather delicate and that there are little inserts (celluloid or composite material maybe?) through which the screws pass. Ron L -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Brian Kaiser Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 2:06 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Widdicomb Here's a link for high Rez jpegs of the Widdicomb that I just acquired..any thoughts on age etc.? http://www.4shared.com/dir/Lzzgc5Tp/sharing.html ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
