Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
ext/xmlrpc in PHP 4.2.0dev already supports SOAP 1.1. It is still in experimental status, but, this is good start point to add native SOAP support for PHP. I think the light weight and fast SOAP implementation is prefereable because SOAP is really basic layer/infrastrucure for Web Services. -- - Rui Hirokawa [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
Hello, Zeev Suraski wrote: At 22:24 01/01/2002, Manuel Lemos wrote: One thing that I think it is really vital to prevent PHP to leak even more users to other languages is to have built-in support for consuming Web services. Manuel, A friendly suggestion - you always sound as if the house is burning, the ceiling is collapsing , and soon enough all will be lost, unless a miracle happens. While this may be true in your opinion, I can tell you that it doesn't have a very positive effect on the way your words are accepted by the users of this, or any other pro-PHP mailing list. If that's the truth, we don't want to hear it sums it up pretty well, especially when most people here believe it's not the truth. What you are saying is that when I make a suggestion people become emotional and work very hard to raise as much objections as they can instead of staying rational and try to see the benefits of the suggestion. About SOAP and Web services - I agree with you that it would be very good to have built-in support for it in PHP. However, suggesting this kind of ideas is usually pretty pointless, unless you're willing to actually do something about it. I think the only time it worked in the past was when Sascha picked up the challenge of creating a session module for PHP, because PHP really needed one (kodus to Sascha on that) - but that's the exception to the rule. Honestly I don't expect you to follow any suggestion I make. Disconsidering my suggestions works more against you than to me because you are the one that is making money from PHP development. What I am trying to say is that sooner or later you will realize how silly it is to spend so much effort in contradicting me or otherwise overrule my suggestions. You seem to forget that this is a forum where at least a few thousand users are not saying anything but they are paying close attention to everything that is said. Seeing my (and also of many others) sugestions being disconsidered just like you systematically do, you are only discouraging others to step up and also present their suggestions. Of course you will disagree because your behaviour became more and more predictable over time. I think Rasmus was looking into that a couple of months ago, btw. Anything came out of it? Rasmus? Regards, Manuel Lemos -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
Hello, Zeev Suraski wrote: At 23:30 01/01/2002, Richard Heyes wrote: However, suggesting this kind of ideas is usually pretty pointless, unless you're willing to actually do something about it. Well Andi asked for discussion on ideas for php5. And these suggestions imo are not pointless, as a developer may well pick up on them and start work on them. It wasn't exactly a suggestion. It was more like unless you do it, PHP is going to be a useless piece of crap that nobody would use; if you do it - it's still pretty hopeless, but just a tiny bit less. Of course you may interpret it the way you want, but I described a feature that PHP does not have and even suggested an implementation format. Since I already noticed several people dropping PHP to do simple things such as consuming a Web service because there much better alternatives for this purpose, I added that I am afraid that this trend of dropping PHP for the lack of support like this will be more evident soon or later. Of course you may continue to disconsider my suggestions as you usually do. Regards, Manuel Lemos -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
Manuel: Is there something stopping you from implementing this? Sean -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 5:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5) Hello, Zeev Suraski wrote: At 23:30 01/01/2002, Richard Heyes wrote: However, suggesting this kind of ideas is usually pretty pointless, unless you're willing to actually do something about it. Well Andi asked for discussion on ideas for php5. And these suggestions imo are not pointless, as a developer may well pick up on them and start work on them. It wasn't exactly a suggestion. It was more like unless you do it, PHP is going to be a useless piece of crap that nobody would use; if you do it - it's still pretty hopeless, but just a tiny bit less. Of course you may interpret it the way you want, but I described a feature that PHP does not have and even suggested an implementation format. Since I already noticed several people dropping PHP to do simple things such as consuming a Web service because there much better alternatives for this purpose, I added that I am afraid that this trend of dropping PHP for the lack of support like this will be more evident soon or later. Of course you may continue to disconsider my suggestions as you usually do. Regards, Manuel Lemos -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
Hello, Sean R. Bright wrote: Manuel: Is there something stopping you from implementing this? Yes, free time to motivate me to stop working on other developments from which I can make a living. Another thing, it has been a while (more than 2 years) since I decided to not dedicate my developments wholly to PHP. I have been working on a meta-programming language that lets me write software that can be compiled to generate code in different languages: PHP, Java, Perl, etc... This means whatever I write in that meta-language can be used not just withing PHP programs but also programs in other languages. I think that constraining myself just to PHP will limit the possibilities and the future of my software developments. I already have some SOAP components written in this meta-language. If I work on something that would make it easier to provide and consume Web servers (and I have been doing some work), I will invest my time better on doing it with this meta-language rather than something that is PHP specific. If you care about this meta-language, look here: http://www.meta-language.net/ . Anyway, notice that my suggestion was just made because Andi asked for suggestions and I thing built-in Web services consuption support is important for PHP and not because I have a special need for that. Regards, Manuel Lemos Sean -Original Message- From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2002 5:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5) Hello, Zeev Suraski wrote: At 23:30 01/01/2002, Richard Heyes wrote: However, suggesting this kind of ideas is usually pretty pointless, unless you're willing to actually do something about it. Well Andi asked for discussion on ideas for php5. And these suggestions imo are not pointless, as a developer may well pick up on them and start work on them. It wasn't exactly a suggestion. It was more like unless you do it, PHP is going to be a useless piece of crap that nobody would use; if you do it - it's still pretty hopeless, but just a tiny bit less. Of course you may interpret it the way you want, but I described a feature that PHP does not have and even suggested an implementation format. Since I already noticed several people dropping PHP to do simple things such as consuming a Web service because there much better alternatives for this purpose, I added that I am afraid that this trend of dropping PHP for the lack of support like this will be more evident soon or later. Of course you may continue to disconsider my suggestions as you usually do. Regards, Manuel Lemos -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
At 00:34 02/01/2002, Manuel Lemos wrote: What you are saying is that when I make a suggestion people become emotional and work very hard to raise as much objections as they can instead of staying rational and try to see the benefits of the suggestion. It's about how you make the suggestions, Manuel. vital to prevent PHP to leak even more users to other languages is a pretty annoying sentence to read. In case you're not sure what it means - it means that: (a) PHP is 'leaking' lots of users today (b) If we do it, it'll go on leaking as it does today (c) If we don't - it'll leak even more If people indeed become emotional about suggestions you make (I certainly don't) then you probably have earned it yourself. At any rate - I did not contradict you. On the contrary, I said I think it's important, even very important. I'm saying that the position you usually take, which is kind-of like the biblical prophets telling everybody they're wrong and what they must do to prevent hell from breaking loose, isn't one that's going to earn you much interest in your ideas. You may try the positive approach instead, especially if you're just pitching an idea for somebody else to implement, with no intention of doing anything about it yourself. You think that my behavior is so predictable, you didn't even appear to read what I said. If it wasn't too transparent I'd be saying that it was your response which was quite predictable - you always do that when people don't cry in joy in the sound of your ideas... Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
At 09:13 PM 1/1/2002 -0200, Manuel Lemos wrote: I already have some SOAP components written in this meta-language. If I work on something that would make it easier to provide and consume Web servers (and I have been doing some work), I will invest my time better on doing it with this meta-language rather than something that is PHP specific. It's a shame that if you have something good that you're not willing to share it with the PHP community. Andi -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Built-in SOAP based Web Services support (wasRe: PHP 5)
* Andi Gutmans wrote: It's a shame that if you have something good that you're not willing to share it with the PHP community. There are other PHP SOAP implementations out there. http://dietrich.ganx4.com/soapx4/ -- Sichere PHP Applikationen / Notfall-Consulting mit der PHP Feuerwehr / Code inspection / Code rehearsal / API Checkup. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
