Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
Hi, Paul I personally pretty much like the idea of auto-loaders, but that's a personal point of view. If you have always develop with scripts having autoloaders you'll hate to write a *require_once* command at the beginning of all files. And what would a dependency-injection-container be without an autoloader ;) http://www.slideshare.net/fabpot/dependency-injection-with-php-53 If you write your code in OOP you should always have unique class-names. If you follow this and use a good naming-convention both ways should be usable. I prefer to use autoloaders, you maybe not and that makes code so personalized ;) *like-it* Bye Simon 2012/2/13 Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis bhawkesle...@googlemail.com On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Paul M Foster pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: The more I've thought about it since then, the more I've considered it a Good Thing(tm). It makes troubleshooting existing code a whole lot easier. I don't have to wonder what the autoloader is doing or where the files are, on which the current file depends. It sort of obviates the autoloader stuff, but I'd rather do that than spend hours trying to track down which file in which directory contains the class which paints the screen blue or whatever. Yeah, this is the sort of problem better handled by a tool than switching away from autoloaders. Exuberant Ctags is your friend. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
Hi, Elbert I personally would remove the set_error_handler completely. This is a configuration that the administrator has to handle himself. In a development-env they want to see all errors, warnings etc, yes - even a strict_notice. But in a production-env they dont want to show anything to the user - just show a general error if something really heavy happened. You can put that in the index.php but I'd wrap it in comments or remove it. In my opinion it's a good idea to move the autoloader into the index.php. Then you can even call your app class using the autoloader ;) I'm just curious what exactly you want to try with the plugins ... Should they simply be extensions or also possibilities to extend other plugins? I also wrote my own framework 3 years ago and was more about making things way more complex than they could be just to think about maximum flexibility .. I pretty much also like the no-config part. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_over_configuration Bye Simon 2012/2/12 Elbert F i...@elbertf.com Hi Simon, I think you're right that I may be abusing the constructor a bit. I'm going to follow your suggestion and split it up into smaller functions. I'm also thinking of moving the set_error_handler and spl_autoload_register functions to index.php where Swiftlet is bootstrapped so they can be changed. You make another good point about the model; it's never supposed to access the controller or view. I updated the code to reflect this. It should work like your second flowcharthttp://betterexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/rails/mvc-rails.png(perhaps with the added concept of plugins, which can hook into anything). Symfony's routing is nice, many smaller frameworks take a similar approach (e.g. Sinatra http://www.sinatrarb.com/ and ToroPHPhttp://toroweb.org/). However, I like the fact that Swiftlet requires no configuration. Just drop in your class and it works. The file structure and classes already do a good job describing themselves. Excellent feedback, thanks! Elbert On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Simon Schick simonsimc...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, Elbert I've looked through the code and found it quite tiny :) I like that. Until now I found some things that I'd like to discuss with you: In the class App you're doing all the stuff (routing, calling the constructor aso) in the constructor. Would it not be better to have separate functions for that? I like the way I learned from using Java: The constructor is only for initializing the variables you need to execute the other functions of this class. Of course you can have a function that then calls all those small functions and maybe directly return the output. I dislike the way you treat with the model .. currently it gets the controller, the view and the app itself. If you ask me the model only needs some configuration. I cannot come up with an idea where you'd need more than a connection-string and some additional settings. The model has several methods to gather the data that has been requested and gives it back. If you'd ask me, there's no need for interaction with the app, controller or view. I'd like to see an option for the router like the one I've seen in symfony2 ... that was quite nice .. There you can define a regexp that should match the called url, some variables that should be extracted from that and some default-variables. It's quite hard to explain in the short term, but take a look at their documentation: http://symfony.com/doc/current/book/routing.html I'd like you to create a small workflow what your framework is doing in which order. Your framework to me looks like this image: http://imageshack.us/f/52/mvcoriginal.png/ But I'd rethink if this structure would give you more flexibility: http://betterexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/rails/mvc-rails.png I hope you got some input here you can work with. I'd like to hear your feedback. Bye Simon 2012/2/12 Elbert F i...@elbertf.com I'm looking for constructive feedback on Swiftlet, a tiny MVC framework that leverages the OO capabilities of PHP 5.3. It's intentionally featureless and should familiar to those experienced with MVC. Any comments on architecture, code and documentation quality are very welcome. Source code and documentation: http://swiftlet.org
Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 09:01:03AM +0100, Simon Schick wrote: Hi, Paul I personally pretty much like the idea of auto-loaders, but that's a personal point of view. If you have always develop with scripts having autoloaders you'll hate to write a *require_once* command at the beginning of all files. And what would a dependency-injection-container be without an autoloader ;) http://www.slideshare.net/fabpot/dependency-injection-with-php-53 I wrote a quite solid dependency-injector one time, and used it for a while. But it introduced a certain opacity into my code that I didn't like very much, and I ultimately abandoned it, even though it worked quite well. It's kinda like in C. If I want to use the strchr() function, I know I'd better do an #include string.h to get that functionality. I can't just assume all the library functions are all just there, waiting for me to use them. While I've often complained about having to include those header files to get to those functions, I still prefer having those include calls obviously staring at me at the top of my files. I don't have to *assume* it's there somewhere. I can see it right there, and it comforts me. Maybe all this is my C upbringing Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
Hi, Elbert I've looked through the code and found it quite tiny. I like that. Until now I found some things that I'd like to discuss with you: In the class App you're doing all the stuff (routing, calling the constructor aso) in the constructor. Would it not be better to have separate functions for that? I like the way I learned from using Java: The constructor is only for initializing the variables you need to execute the other functions of this class. Of course you can have a function that then calls all those small functions and maybe directly return the output. I dislike the way you treat with the model .. currently it gets the controller, the view and the app itself. If you ask me the model only needs some configuration. I cannot come up with an idea where you'd need more than a connection-string and some additional settings. The model has several methods to gather the data that has been requested and gives it back. If you'd ask me, there's no need for interaction with the app, controller or view. I'd like to see an option for the router like the one I've seen in symfony2 ... that was quite nice .. There you can define a regexp that should match the called url, some variables that should be extracted from that and some default-variables. It's quite hard to explain in the short term, but take a look at their documentation: http://symfony.com/doc/current/book/routing.html I'd like you to create a small workflow what your framework is doing in which order. Your framework to me looks like this image: http://imageshack.us/f/52/mvcoriginal.png/ But I'd rethink if this structure would give you more flexibility: http://betterexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/rails/mvc-rails.png I hope you got some input here you can work with. I'd like to hear your feedback. Bye Simon 2012/2/12 Elbert F i...@elbertf.com I'm looking for constructive feedback on Swiftlet, a tiny MVC framework that leverages the OO capabilities of PHP 5.3. It's intentionally featureless and should familiar to those experienced with MVC. Any comments on architecture, code and documentation quality are very welcome. Source code and documentation: http://swiftlet.org
Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
Hi Simon, I think you're right that I may be abusing the constructor a bit. I'm going to follow your suggestion and split it up into smaller functions. I'm also thinking of moving the set_error_handler and spl_autoload_register functions to index.php where Swiftlet is bootstrapped so they can be changed. You make another good point about the model; it's never supposed to access the controller or view. I updated the code to reflect this. It should work like your second flowcharthttp://betterexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/rails/mvc-rails.png(perhaps with the added concept of plugins, which can hook into anything). Symfony's routing is nice, many smaller frameworks take a similar approach (e.g. Sinatra http://www.sinatrarb.com/ and ToroPHP http://toroweb.org/). However, I like the fact that Swiftlet requires no configuration. Just drop in your class and it works. The file structure and classes already do a good job describing themselves. Excellent feedback, thanks! Elbert On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Simon Schick simonsimc...@googlemail.comwrote: Hi, Elbert I've looked through the code and found it quite tiny I like that. Until now I found some things that I'd like to discuss with you: In the class App you're doing all the stuff (routing, calling the constructor aso) in the constructor. Would it not be better to have separate functions for that? I like the way I learned from using Java: The constructor is only for initializing the variables you need to execute the other functions of this class. Of course you can have a function that then calls all those small functions and maybe directly return the output. I dislike the way you treat with the model .. currently it gets the controller, the view and the app itself. If you ask me the model only needs some configuration. I cannot come up with an idea where you'd need more than a connection-string and some additional settings. The model has several methods to gather the data that has been requested and gives it back. If you'd ask me, there's no need for interaction with the app, controller or view. I'd like to see an option for the router like the one I've seen in symfony2 ... that was quite nice .. There you can define a regexp that should match the called url, some variables that should be extracted from that and some default-variables. It's quite hard to explain in the short term, but take a look at their documentation: http://symfony.com/doc/current/book/routing.html I'd like you to create a small workflow what your framework is doing in which order. Your framework to me looks like this image: http://imageshack.us/f/52/mvcoriginal.png/ But I'd rethink if this structure would give you more flexibility: http://betterexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/rails/mvc-rails.png I hope you got some input here you can work with. I'd like to hear your feedback. Bye Simon 2012/2/12 Elbert F i...@elbertf.com I'm looking for constructive feedback on Swiftlet, a tiny MVC framework that leverages the OO capabilities of PHP 5.3. It's intentionally featureless and should familiar to those experienced with MVC. Any comments on architecture, code and documentation quality are very welcome. Source code and documentation: http://swiftlet.org
Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 09:24:38AM +1100, Elbert F wrote: Hi Simon, I think you're right that I may be abusing the constructor a bit. I'm going to follow your suggestion and split it up into smaller functions. I'm also thinking of moving the set_error_handler and spl_autoload_register functions to index.php where Swiftlet is bootstrapped so they can be changed. I didn't look thoroughly at your code (though, if the respondent's perceptions were correct, I'd have to agree with his prescriptions for improvement). But I wanted to make a comment about autoloaders, since you mentioned it. My philosophy, since autoloading was introduced, was that it was a cool way to avoid having a lot of complicated file inclusion calls all over the place. Just tell the autoloader function where different types of files were located, and then just instantiate classes as you like. Easy. But I recently did some work for one of these companies with a million file internally developed framework. And at the top of each file, they'd include a require_once() (or similar) call for each of the files which would be called if you needed to instantiate a class from any of those files. So rather than putting all the magic in an autoloader function, they'd simply include the file where they knew it would be needed. (E.g., you know you're going to be calling your Date class in this file, so you put a require_once() call to the file that contains it at the top of this file.) The more I've thought about it since then, the more I've considered it a Good Thing(tm). It makes troubleshooting existing code a whole lot easier. I don't have to wonder what the autoloader is doing or where the files are, on which the current file depends. It sort of obviates the autoloader stuff, but I'd rather do that than spend hours trying to track down which file in which directory contains the class which paints the screen blue or whatever. (Yes, I'm aware that require_once() introduces some latency.) Just something to consider. Paul -- Paul M. Foster http://noferblatz.com http://quillandmouse.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Paul M Foster pa...@quillandmouse.com wrote: The more I've thought about it since then, the more I've considered it a Good Thing(tm). It makes troubleshooting existing code a whole lot easier. I don't have to wonder what the autoloader is doing or where the files are, on which the current file depends. It sort of obviates the autoloader stuff, but I'd rather do that than spend hours trying to track down which file in which directory contains the class which paints the screen blue or whatever. Yeah, this is the sort of problem better handled by a tool than switching away from autoloaders. Exuberant Ctags is your friend. -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Swiftlet is quite possibly the smallest MVC framework you'll ever use.
I'm looking for constructive feedback on Swiftlet, a tiny MVC framework that leverages the OO capabilities of PHP 5.3. It's intentionally featureless and should familiar to those experienced with MVC. Any comments on architecture, code and documentation quality are very welcome. Source code and documentation: http://swiftlet.org
