Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
Hmm... can you point out to them that there's a similarity between using an external style sheet and using header/footer includes? And that as a coder, it would be your responsibility to maintain these include files, not theirs? Personally, I think .css external style sheets are awesome -- there's no reason I can see that they couldn't continue to use them. You don't need control over the .css file, and it would be easy for you to do style ?php echo $stylesheet ? /style in the include header, which gives them control over the contents of the style tag (obviously they have to know how to use ?php $stylesheet = link rel=stylesheet type=text/css href=stylesheet.css / ; ? and put this before the include() call). Using this technique, they don't even have to limit themselves to a single external style sheet or even external style sheets at all -- they could make it a document-level style sheet. This way you each can reach a compromise about control. Just a suggestion. Erik On Tuesday, December 18, 2001, at 04:53 PM, Mike Eheler wrote: They sound like good ideas, with one quisp.. the sites are currently being designed in *shudder* Dreamweaver. They absolutely refuse to chop files up into header/footer includes, and they want to be able to do all their colour customisation through their beloved .css files. Mike -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[PHP] Working with designers...
Hi There, I'm looking for some community feedback on being a coder working with designers. Techniques that work that allow my php-inept page/graphic designer comrade make changes to the layout of the page without destroying my code, or requiring me to make any changes whatsoever. Or what is the best process? Code the dynamicity (heh -- sad thing is you know what i mean by it) of the site, then integrate a designers HTML into your code, *or* the other way around.. have the designer create the site using all static html files, then go in and remove sample data to be replaced with dynamic data (pulled from a DB, for example). I'm about to enter a very large project working with about 3 or 4 designers and 2 other coders and any suggestions on making this relationship work is greatly appreciated. Mike -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
I try to seperate the php code from the html as much as possible. So, if a page is dynamic, have php figure out the dynamic parts first, put them into variables such as $html, or $pull_down_menu, or whatever. Then all that needs to replaced in the html is that section. HTML coders aren't dumb, so they can be trusted with a simple ?= $html ? placement. Additionally, I try to seperate php logic from php presentation as much as possible. This means creating as many variables as possible that affect how things look and then including a conf.php file that the coders can also change pretty easily with good documentation. Moving even further in this direction, my logic code calls many presentation functions which I find HTML coders can also decipher rather well. You can put these in another include file so your designers don't ever have to touch any of your precious logic. Then ... if you have time ... you can make an admin screen to change, edit, and preview the finished product. Jim Hi There, I'm looking for some community feedback on being a coder working with designers. Techniques that work that allow my php-inept page/graphic designer comrade make changes to the layout of the page without destroying my code, or requiring me to make any changes whatsoever. Or what is the best process? Code the dynamicity (heh -- sad thing is you know what i mean by it) of the site, then integrate a designers HTML into your code, *or* the other way around.. have the designer create the site using all static html files, then go in and remove sample data to be replaced with dynamic data (pulled from a DB, for example). I'm about to enter a very large project working with about 3 or 4 designers and 2 other coders and any suggestions on making this relationship work is greatly appreciated. Mike -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Jim Musil - Multimedia Programmer Nettmedia - 212-629-0004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
They sound like good ideas, with one quisp.. the sites are currently being designed in *shudder* Dreamweaver. They absolutely refuse to chop files up into header/footer includes, and they want to be able to do all their colour customisation through their beloved .css files. Mike Jimtronic wrote: I try to seperate the php code from the html as much as possible. So, if a page is dynamic, have php figure out the dynamic parts first, put them into variables such as $html, or $pull_down_menu, or whatever. Then all that needs to replaced in the html is that section. HTML coders aren't dumb, so they can be trusted with a simple ?= $html ? placement. Additionally, I try to seperate php logic from php presentation as much as possible. This means creating as many variables as possible that affect how things look and then including a conf.php file that the coders can also change pretty easily with good documentation. Moving even further in this direction, my logic code calls many presentation functions which I find HTML coders can also decipher rather well. You can put these in another include file so your designers don't ever have to touch any of your precious logic. Then ... if you have time ... you can make an admin screen to change, edit, and preview the finished product. Jim Hi There, I'm looking for some community feedback on being a coder working with designers. Techniques that work that allow my php-inept page/graphic designer comrade make changes to the layout of the page without destroying my code, or requiring me to make any changes whatsoever. Or what is the best process? Code the dynamicity (heh -- sad thing is you know what i mean by it) of the site, then integrate a designers HTML into your code, *or* the other way around.. have the designer create the site using all static html files, then go in and remove sample data to be replaced with dynamic data (pulled from a DB, for example). I'm about to enter a very large project working with about 3 or 4 designers and 2 other coders and any suggestions on making this relationship work is greatly appreciated. Mike -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
Yikes! You mean they don't use a text editor to for html? Seriously, you do have two choices here and I certainly prefer the one suggested below. You may have to talk to the project manager about the designer's refusal to allow thier precious dreamweaver source files to be chopped up. On the other hand, their insistance on using CSS is ideal. If the project manager does not want the html chopped up then it is not the end of the world. I recently completed a project where the designer insisted on using dreamweaver and leaving the html as single files. I wrote the functions for everything I needed and placed them in include files. I then replaced his sample data with ?= ? statements and all is well. I'd give you the URL to see how seemlessly it works, but it is a porn site and i'd rather not link it on the list. The moral is that you can certainly be successful in approaching the project this way. Personally, I do not like wading through all that html to figure out where to put my precious php code, but then again they were paying the bills that month. Fred Mike Eheler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... They sound like good ideas, with one quisp.. the sites are currently being designed in *shudder* Dreamweaver. They absolutely refuse to chop files up into header/footer includes, and they want to be able to do all their colour customisation through their beloved .css files. Mike Jimtronic wrote: I try to seperate the php code from the html as much as possible. So, if a page is dynamic, have php figure out the dynamic parts first, put them into variables such as $html, or $pull_down_menu, or whatever. Then all that needs to replaced in the html is that section. HTML coders aren't dumb, so they can be trusted with a simple ?= $html ? placement. Additionally, I try to seperate php logic from php presentation as much as possible. This means creating as many variables as possible that affect how things look and then including a conf.php file that the coders can also change pretty easily with good documentation. Moving even further in this direction, my logic code calls many presentation functions which I find HTML coders can also decipher rather well. You can put these in another include file so your designers don't ever have to touch any of your precious logic. Then ... if you have time ... you can make an admin screen to change, edit, and preview the finished product. Jim Hi There, I'm looking for some community feedback on being a coder working with designers. Techniques that work that allow my php-inept page/graphic designer comrade make changes to the layout of the page without destroying my code, or requiring me to make any changes whatsoever. Or what is the best process? Code the dynamicity (heh -- sad thing is you know what i mean by it) of the site, then integrate a designers HTML into your code, *or* the other way around.. have the designer create the site using all static html files, then go in and remove sample data to be replaced with dynamic data (pulled from a DB, for example). I'm about to enter a very large project working with about 3 or 4 designers and 2 other coders and any suggestions on making this relationship work is greatly appreciated. Mike -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. really if they don't want to chop the files up into header/footer that shouldn't bother you, it makes their job harder since they have to make changes to hundreds of files instead of one, but the dynamic stuff will still all be in one file that gets include'd a hundred times. - Mark On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 14:39:14 -0800, Fred wrote: Yikes! You mean they don't use a text editor to for html? Seriously, you do have two choices here and I certainly prefer the one suggested below. You may have to talk to the project manager about the designer's refusal to allow thier precious dreamweaver source files to be chopped up. On the other hand, their insistance on using CSS is ideal. If the project manager does not want the html chopped up then it is not the end of the world. I recently completed a project where the designer insisted on using dreamweaver and leaving the html as single files. I wrote the functions for everything I needed and placed them in include files. I then replaced his sample data with ?= ? statements and all is well. I'd give you the URL to see how seemlessly it works, but it is a porn site and i'd rather not link it on the list. The moral is that you can certainly be successful in approaching the project this way. Personally, I do not like wading through all that html to figure out where to put my precious php code, but then again they were paying the bills that month. Fred Mike Eheler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... They sound like good ideas, with one quisp.. the sites are currently being designed in *shudder* Dreamweaver. They absolutely refuse to chop files up into header/footer includes, and they want to be able to do all their colour customisation through their beloved .css files. Mike Jimtronic wrote: I try to seperate the php code from the html as much as possible. So, if a page is dynamic, have php figure out the dynamic parts first, put them into variables such as $html, or $pull_down_menu, or whatever. Then all that needs to replaced in the html is that section. HTML coders aren't dumb, so they can be trusted with a simple ?= $html ? placement. Additionally, I try to seperate php logic from php presentation as much as possible. This means creating as many variables as possible that affect how things look and then including a conf.php file that the coders can also change pretty easily with good documentation. Moving even further in this direction, my logic code calls many presentation functions which I find HTML coders can also decipher rather well. You can put these in another include file so your designers don't ever have to touch any of your precious logic. Then ... if you have time ... you can make an admin screen to change, edit, and preview the finished product. Jim Hi There, I'm looking for some community feedback on being a coder working with designers. Techniques that work that allow my php-inept page/graphic designer comrade make changes to the layout of the page without destroying my code, or requiring me to make any changes whatsoever. Or what is the best process? Code the dynamicity (heh -- sad thing is you know what i mean by it) of the site, then integrate a designers HTML into your code, *or* the other way around.. have the designer create the site using all static html files, then go in and remove sample data to be replaced with dynamic data (pulled from a DB, for example). I'm about to enter a very large project working with about 3 or 4 designers and 2 other coders and any suggestions on making this relationship work is greatly appreciated. Mike -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
As a designer and a coder, I have always found that it is easiest to have the layout of the page done before adding the dynamic content. If the layout is done correctly, it should not be necessary to put in sample data that has to be removed after. After joining the workforce, as a database programmer, I now strictly code the backend stuff, and as before, the layouts are done and I simply add the dynamic content. Whatever arrangement you end up with, just make sure the ground rules are in place before you start. It may help to have them written down (I know, coders hate to document), as it will protect you in the future if problems do arise. Good luck, Steve Osborne Database Programmer Chinook Multimedia Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. Fred -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:09 -0800, Fred wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. hmm, I'm assuming that javascript is the programmer's responsibility, not the designer's. Maybe the javascript needs to be dynamically generated, probably it doesn't. either way it's in a separate file doesn't get edited in dreamweaver. I understand that the php will probably have to be in a table and the designer's will want to be able to change it's appearance, and that's where css comes in. i.e.: table class=php_table_class tr class=php_tr_class td class=php_td_class div class=php_content_class?echo $dynamic_content?/div /td /tr /table yes, there's some html in the included file, but the designer's don't need to have access to it because they can just change how it looks in the stylesheet. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
hope you don't plan to use that example table in netscape 4.x - Original Message - From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Working with designers... On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:09 -0800, Fred wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. hmm, I'm assuming that javascript is the programmer's responsibility, not the designer's. Maybe the javascript needs to be dynamically generated, probably it doesn't. either way it's in a separate file doesn't get edited in dreamweaver. I understand that the php will probably have to be in a table and the designer's will want to be able to change it's appearance, and that's where css comes in. i.e.: table class=php_table_class tr class=php_tr_class td class=php_td_class div class=php_content_class?echo $dynamic_content?/div /td /tr /table yes, there's some html in the included file, but the designer's don't need to have access to it because they can just change how it looks in the stylesheet. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
LOL. Use Netscape 4. Now there's a condtradiction you don't hear every day. Mike Jim Lucas wrote: hope you don't plan to use that example table in netscape 4.x - Original Message - From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Working with designers... On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:09 -0800, Fred wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. hmm, I'm assuming that javascript is the programmer's responsibility, not the designer's. Maybe the javascript needs to be dynamically generated, probably it doesn't. either way it's in a separate file doesn't get edited in dreamweaver. I understand that the php will probably have to be in a table and the designer's will want to be able to change it's appearance, and that's where css comes in. i.e.: table class=php_table_class tr class=php_tr_class td class=php_td_class div class=php_content_class?echo $dynamic_content?/div /td /tr /table yes, there's some html in the included file, but the designer's don't need to have access to it because they can just change how it looks in the stylesheet. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
well, the class tag in the tr won't work with ns6 , but fortunately for you ( sigh ) ns 6 does include the div tag. - Original Message - From: Mike Eheler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Working with designers... LOL. Use Netscape 4. Now there's a condtradiction you don't hear every day. Mike Jim Lucas wrote: hope you don't plan to use that example table in netscape 4.x - Original Message - From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Working with designers... On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:09 -0800, Fred wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. hmm, I'm assuming that javascript is the programmer's responsibility, not the designer's. Maybe the javascript needs to be dynamically generated, probably it doesn't. either way it's in a separate file doesn't get edited in dreamweaver. I understand that the php will probably have to be in a table and the designer's will want to be able to change it's appearance, and that's where css comes in. i.e.: table class=php_table_class tr class=php_tr_class td class=php_td_class div class=php_content_class?echo $dynamic_content?/div /td /tr /table yes, there's some html in the included file, but the designer's don't need to have access to it because they can just change how it looks in the stylesheet. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:37:07 -0800, Jim Lucas wrote: well, the class tag in the tr won't work with ns6 , but fortunately for you ( sigh ) ns 6 does include the div tag. well, I don't know what a designer would really want to do with tr anyway but you got the general idea of what I'm saying. - Original Message - From: Mike Eheler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Working with designers... LOL. Use Netscape 4. Now there's a condtradiction you don't hear every day. Mike Jim Lucas wrote: hope you don't plan to use that example table in netscape 4.x - Original Message - From: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; php- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Working with designers... On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:09 -0800, Fred wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. hmm, I'm assuming that javascript is the programmer's responsibility, not the designer's. Maybe the javascript needs to be dynamically generated, probably it doesn't. either way it's in a separate file doesn't get edited in dreamweaver. I understand that the php will probably have to be in a table and the designer's will want to be able to change it's appearance, and that's where css comes in. i.e.: table class=php_table_class tr class=php_tr_class td class=php_td_class div class=php_content_class?echo $dynamic_content?/div /td /tr /table yes, there's some html in the included file, but the designer's don't need to have access to it because they can just change how it looks in the stylesheet. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: php-list- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Working with designers...
Maybe you have never had to deal with a dreamweaver created web page, but it deposits little javascript code all over the page for decoration. Apparently the dreamweaver designers pick components like rollover menu images etc and dreamweaver gladly disperses the javascript code throughout the document. Assuming the href's are going to be dynamic to account for GET variables then the php coder has to dig through the javascript to place a php element or generate the javascript dynamically, which is apparently what these designers were trying to avoid. i.e. they did not want anyone touching their beautifully created dreamweaver document. Fred Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:00:09 -0800, Fred wrote: Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... well, you don't have to wade through all that html, just put an include() in there to a file that has all the php in it. then dreamweaver should leave it alone. Huh? Obviously the logic can be included, but the output functions need to be burried deep in dreamweaver created nested tables and javascripts. hmm, I'm assuming that javascript is the programmer's responsibility, not the designer's. Maybe the javascript needs to be dynamically generated, probably it doesn't. either way it's in a separate file doesn't get edited in dreamweaver. I understand that the php will probably have to be in a table and the designer's will want to be able to change it's appearance, and that's where css comes in. i.e.: table class=php_table_class tr class=php_tr_class td class=php_td_class div class=php_content_class?echo $dynamic_content?/div /td /tr /table yes, there's some html in the included file, but the designer's don't need to have access to it because they can just change how it looks in the stylesheet. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
