Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:30 AM, Manuel Lemos mle...@acm.org wrote: Hello, on 05/28/2009 10:20 AM Olexandr Heneralov said the following: Hi! Guys, you of course, know that ASP.NET becomes more and more popular in the world. I have a question for everyone: Can it happen so that PHP will be replaced with ASP.NET? ASP.NET is not a language. It is more like a framework that can run multiple languages. It can run VB.NET, C# and even PHP (although it is not usual). I am not sure what are the current numbers, but the latest statistics that I have seen Apache was running on 72% of the Internet Web servers against only 17% of Microsoft IIS. I think the two are closer than that. Netcraft has had Apache at around 45% and Microsoft IIS at around 30% for a couple years now. Also PHP is the most popular Apache extension present in between 40% and 50% of Apache installations. This means that PHP is present in 1/3 of the Internet Web servers, which represents about half of the PHP market share. PHP is also available on IIS. A slightly better measure *might* be the approach Dan mentioned a while back where he queried Google to count the number of pages indexed by suffix. Even so, you know what they say about statistics Will ASP.NET replace PHP? Time will tell. (I doubt it.) At any rate, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
ASP.NET is not a language. It is more like a framework that can run multiple languages. It can run VB.NET, C# and even PHP (although it is not usual). I'm going to shoot from a (90's?) hip on this one. Isn't .NET the framework, and enter_your_language_here.NET the language? ASP.NET uses ASP to access the .NET framework. VB.NET uses VB to access the .NET framework. enter_your_language_here.NET uses enter_your_language_here to access the .NET framework. And how _IS_ Mono coming along? Last I checked, 1.x stuff worked on Linux, but the goodies I wanted were in the 2.x framework. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:50 AM, Dee Ayy dee@gmail.com wrote: ASP.NET is not a language. It is more like a framework that can run multiple languages. It can run VB.NET, C# and even PHP (although it is not usual). I'm going to shoot from a (90's?) hip on this one. Isn't .NET the framework, and enter_your_language_here.NET the language? ASP.NET uses ASP to access the .NET framework. VB.NET uses VB to access the .NET framework. enter_your_language_here.NET uses enter_your_language_here to access the .NET framework. Not exactly. ASP isn't a language. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
ASP (Classic) and ASP.NET = two different things. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages Personally, I don't see a reason for putting anyone, or any company through the torture of building web apps with .NET. ...VBSCRIPT for the web just doesn't make sense to me with the other solutions that are available... but I suppose decisions are made for many reasons that can force, perhaps less than optimal methods. I come to this thread with the perspective of having a vested interest in a server-side scripting language and my opinion is that I hope there is never only one resounding solution... even if that solution was my preferred language. I appreciate the different ideas and different tools out there. They all offer perspectives and they all have strengths and weaknesses and that is good to have at our fingertips when we are deciding what route is best to take for a solution. About usage numbers, I don't know of a great way to determine those... most languages can parse multiple suffixes.. for example, I almost exclusively prefer to use .html files to parse my dynamic solutions. Also, I am guessing that the free solutions.. such as PHP, are more likely to be installed but not used.. unlike the paid solutions. But, in the end, I don't think it is about usage numbers. Like I said, I think people should use the solution that best fits their project/s needs. Donovan -- =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o D. BROOKE EUCA Design Center WebDNA Software Corp. WEB: http://www.euca.us | http://www.webdna.us =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o WebDNA: [** Square Bracket Utopia **] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Lists li...@euca.us wrote: ASP (Classic) and ASP.NET = two different things. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages Agreed. And neither one of them is a language. Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
assuming one had suitable hardware, what does it cost to start developing for asp? i guess you'd need to buy a copy of some windows server for dev test. what else? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org wrote: assuming one had suitable hardware, what does it cost to start developing for asp? i guess you'd need to buy a copy of some windows server for dev test. what else? That's about it. ASP/ASP.NET both come with Windows if you install IIS. Where it gets you is implementing anything that requires external libraries like the plethora of PHP extensions available. You either have to write them yourself or buy them from a 3rd-party vendor. Not many of them are free. Even handling file uploading requires a component/library in ASP. I'm not sure about ASP.NET. (I saw it done once without a COM library, but it was neither pretty nor fast.) Andrew -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Lists li...@euca.us wrote: ASP (Classic) and ASP.NET = two different things. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages Personally, I don't see a reason for putting anyone, or any company through the torture of building web apps with .NET. ...VBSCRIPT for the web just doesn't make sense to me with the other solutions that are available... but I suppose decisions are made for many reasons that can force, perhaps less than optimal methods. Funny, since ASP.NET does not use VBScript (Classic ASP can, with JScript being the alternative). ASP.NET is basically a web framework for the .NET language platform. It's a bit more complicated than that, but I hardly see the reason(s) for it not making any sense as a development tool for web sites. As a VB.NET programmer, I can move seamlessly between developing command-line, GUI, and web applications... much like I can as a PHP programmer (minus the GUI part, I suppose, but Gtk+ can probably help with that). For that matter, I don't see why VBScript as a web development language is frowned upon so vehemently. So you're sending your output to an object rather than a pseudo-function (echo)... big deal. Class instantiation can be a pain with the Server.CreateObject() method, but I hardly see how one solution is automatically less than optimal. Most of the same tips and development methods are prevalent in BOTH languages (talking about VB/ASP.NET and PHP)... but one uses % and one uses ? (which, coincidentally, is less than optimal when dealing with XML). I'm not trying to get on a high horse here, but I felt VB.NET/ASP/ASP.NET deserve a voice if they are being mindlessly smashed on flimsy evidence, suspicion, and anti-MS bandwagoning. I love OSS too, guys! That doesn't, however, make all closed-source software into The Devil. -- // Todd I was just ninja'd during this post by Andrew, who brought up a good point about file uploading ... although I have to say--ASP.NET handles it with an incredibly simple control. Put the tag on your page, reference that tag's internal ID in your code. Done and done. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
That would be about it, unless you need a fancy GUI with all the bells and whistles Bastien Sent from my iPod On Jun 1, 2009, at 15:35, Tom Worster f...@thefsb.org wrote: assuming one had suitable hardware, what does it cost to start developing for asp? i guess you'd need to buy a copy of some windows server for dev test. what else? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
haliphax wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Lists li...@euca.us wrote: ASP (Classic) and ASP.NET = two different things. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Server_Pages Personally, I don't see a reason for putting anyone, or any company through the torture of building web apps with .NET. ...VBSCRIPT for the web just doesn't make sense to me with the other solutions that are available... but I suppose decisions are made for many reasons that can force, perhaps less than optimal methods. Funny, since ASP.NET does not use VBScript (Classic ASP can, with JScript being the alternative). ASP.NET is basically a web framework for the .NET language platform. It's a bit more complicated than that, but I hardly see the reason(s) for it not making any sense as a development tool for web sites. As a VB.NET programmer, I can move seamlessly between developing command-line, GUI, and web applications... much like I can as a PHP programmer (minus the GUI part, I suppose, but Gtk+ can probably help with that). [snip] One thing I understand over the 15+ years that I've been working with dynamic site building is that there are loyal folks in all languages, and I certainly do not want to appear as one who is bashing another language. On the contrary, I am always interested in learning about new languages when time permits, and I am a huge believer in the idea that, in any language, it's not necessarily the language, but how well you speak it, that makes the difference. My point in that snippet was that each language has its' purpose. I don't have a profound depth of knowledge with VBSCRIPT (and my reference was simply just an example of a .NET solution) but I do have VS 2006 and 2008 and I've been around web departments who use those and VB and even C# as their core web app building blocks and, to me, it simply appears horribly over complicated and horribly costly compared to the resources I alone require to get the same kind of work done in usually much less time (thus my torture comment). However, for someone that speaks a language fluently, that fact goes a long way to help curb costs and complication. So, perhaps my comment lacked in tact, but it isn't (and wasn't meant to be) anti-MS and it isn't mindless, and I don't think VBSCRIPT is the devil ;-). I usually prefer a language called WebDNA, and I'd be happy to compare some code (off list) for some common web needs if you like... (in the spirit of learning, and not bashing)... to see more where I'm coming from with my comments. Donovan -- =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o D. BROOKE EUCA Design Center WebDNA Software Corp. WEB: http://www.euca.us | http://www.webdna.us =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o WebDNA: [** Square Bracket Utopia **] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 17:08, Lists li...@euca.us wrote: I usually prefer a language called WebDNA [...] [snip!] -- =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o D. BROOKE EUCA Design Center WebDNA Software Corp. I could be way off-base, but I'd suspect that there's a particular reason for that. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
Daniel Brown wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 17:08, Lists li...@euca.us wrote: I usually prefer a language called WebDNA [...] [snip!] -- =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o D. BROOKE EUCA Design Center WebDNA Software Corp. I could be way off-base, but I'd suspect that there's a particular reason for that. Most definitely, as I stated (or alluded to) in a previous post. Donovan -- =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o D. BROOKE EUCA Design Center WebDNA Software Corp. WEB: http://www.euca.us | http://www.webdna.us =o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o=o WebDNA: [** Square Bracket Utopia **] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
/Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 Completely off topic, but www.pilotpig.net is down or buggered or something! Looks like a squatter to me .
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 17:44, Eddie Drapkin oorza...@gmail.com wrote: Completely off topic, but www.pilotpig.net is down or buggered or something! Looks like a squatter to me . Looks fine to me, but you may have caught it while I was swapping over some junk with GoDaddy. They're not as seamless as they used to be, it seems, so maybe it was down for a bit. Thanks for the heads-up though. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
oh, yep, it's back! :] On Jun 1, 2009 7:50pm, Daniel Brown danbr...@php.net wrote: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 17:44, Eddie Drapkin oorza...@gmail.com wrote: Completely off topic, but www.pilotpig.net is down or buggered or something! Looks like a squatter to me . Looks fine to me, but you may have caught it while I was swapping over some junk with GoDaddy. They're not as seamless as they used to be, it seems, so maybe it was down for a bit. Thanks for the heads-up though. -- daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP vs ASP.NET
On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 17:25, Lists li...@euca.us wrote: Most definitely, as I stated (or alluded to) in a previous post. Absolutely. There was nothing malicious intended by my comment with your particular post. With some folks who come around trolling threads to tout their sites and services, yes, but you play well with others, Don. ;-P On a related note, I've recently been toying with the idea of putting up a dev box with WebDNA on it, I just can't yet justify the expense. -- /Daniel P. Brown daniel.br...@parasane.net || danbr...@php.net http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/ 50% Off All Shared Hosting Plans at PilotPig: Use Coupon DOW1 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
