Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Michael Barnes]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 3:22 PM Galen Seitz  wrote:

> On 1/17/23 09:43, Rich Shepard wrote:
> > On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Galen Seitz wrote:
> >
> >> Sorry, I haven't been following this thread too closely, but if this is
> a
> >> device you already own, you can look this up yourself. First use lsusb
> to
> >> find the vendor and product ID values for the USB device of interest.
> >> Then
> >> use lsusb again to get more information about the device.
> >
> > Galen,
> >
> > What a valuable lesson!
> >
> > # lsusb -v -d 1235:8211 | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower'
> >iProduct3 Scarlett Solo USB
> >  MaxPower  500mA
> >
> > This suggests to me that a less expensive hub with fewer ports that has
> at
> > least 50W published power would work with all three devices.
>
> FYI, the typical 4 port powered USB 2.0 hub is supplied with a 5V
> adapter that is capable of ~2A, or about 500 mA per port.  With a USB
> 3.0 hub where the per port current limit is 900 mA, the max adapter
> current should be higher, but it's unlikely the adapter would be sized
> to allow the max current on every port.
>
> Hubs that have high (>15W) wattage are likely intended to support some
> sort of charging of phones/tablets/etc where communication regarding the
> larger current capability is communicated through a different mechanism.
>
> Once again, the above does not directly apply to USB C hubs that support
> power delivery.
>
> Rich, if you have three devices that draw 500 mA, a hub with a 2A
> adapter should be sufficient.  Look for a hub with a 2.5A or 3A adapter
> if one or two of your devices draw 900 mA.
>
> BTW, I can guarantee you that virtually all of the crazy USB-powered
> things you can buy do *not* have USB descriptors.  Your Ronco USB fan,
> light, and turnip twaddler connect to VUSB (5V) and immediately attempt
> to draw whatever they need, regardless of any intended USB constraints.
> Buyer beware.
>
>
> galen
> --
> Galen Seitz
> gal...@seitzassoc.com
>

I didn't go back and re-read all the comments, but just wanted to throw a
few things out.
First for USB powered devices/charging (phones, laptop coolers, keyboard
lights, etc.), I strongly recommend not using a USB hub for these. If you
are not using a data connection, then just get a multi-port USB charger.
Look at the available current *per port* then be sure the overall
capability supports that much. For example, it may show six ports at 2.5
amps per port, however the total capacity is only 10 amps. That means you
cannot expect to get 2.5 amps to each device if you have more than four
high current devices plugged in.

Computer USB ports (doesn't really matter if USB 2/3/?) typically only
source 500 ma. Even most powered USB data hubs are limited to 500ma per
port. Check the specs carefully. This is normally fine for most data
devices. You definitely want a powered hub for data devices, though, so
each one will have its full 500ma available to the device. A non-powered
hub must share the entire 500ma available current from the computer with
all devices, and some will come up short, giving unpredictable results.

Just some thoughts.

Michael

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub - LSUSB MaxPower

[Galen Seitz]

On 1/17/23 19:15, MC_Sequoia wrote:

You want to a guess what the MaxPower is listed for the Logitech V20 portable 
usb speakers are that are plugged into my pc?

I'll give you one guess.

Yep, MaxPower is listed as 590 mA

"The USB 1.x and 2.0 specifications provide a 5 V supply on a single wire to 
power connected USB devices.

A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A device may 
draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0; 6 (900 mA) in USB 
3.0."

"Bus 003 Device 002: ID 046d:0a04 Logitech, Inc. V20 portable speakers (USB 
powered)
Device Descriptor:
   bLength18
   bDescriptorType 1
   bcdUSB   1.10
   bDeviceClass0
   bDeviceSubClass 0
   bDeviceProtocol 0
   bMaxPacketSize0 8
   idVendor   0x046d Logitech, Inc.
   idProduct  0x0a04 V20 portable speakers (USB powered)
   bcdDevice0.07
   iManufacturer   1 Logitech
   iProduct2 Logitech USB Speaker
   iSerial 0
   bNumConfigurations  1
   Configuration Descriptor:
 bLength 9
 bDescriptorType 2
 wTotalLength   0x00e9
 bNumInterfaces  3
 bConfigurationValue 1
 iConfiguration  3 G6 2005/03/29 10:05
 bmAttributes 0xc0
   Self Powered
 MaxPower  500mA


The total RMS Power of the Logitech V20 Portable USB Speakers = 2 W or 2000 mA.


power = volts * amps
With VUSB being 5V, this gives
amps = power / volts = 2W / 5V = 400 mA

I don't know what IC(s) is used in these speakers, but this is 
consistent with a system (USB DAC + amp) that is 80% efficient.


500 mA * 80% = 400 mA



Whether I'm driving audio through the speakers our not, the MaxPower stays at 
500 mA.

LSUSB MaxPower is the power output of the USB port the USB device is connected 
to and not what that MaxPower of the device is or can take.

All the USB ports on my pc are 2.0, if you've a mix of USB ports or different 
PCs with different USB port specs, you can prove this by moving the USB device 
to the different ports and checking the MaxPower that LSUSB lists.


MaxPower is set in the USB device descriptors.  It is independent of the 
host.  Here's an example where I actually changed the MaxPower number of 
an FTDI USB to serial adapter (FT232R).


# Before touching the MaxPower descriptor.
lsusb -v -d 0403:6001 | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower'
  iProduct2 FT232R USB UART
MaxPower   90mA

# Using W10 and the FTDI tool named FT_PROG, I reduced MaxPower.
lsusb -v -d 0403:6001 | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower'
  iProduct2 FT232R USB UART
MaxPower   84mA

Here's a blog post that does a decent job of explaining MaxPower.


Here's the datasheet for the FT232R.  See sections 6 and 8.



galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub - LSUSB MaxPower

[Tomas Kuchta]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023, 22:16 MC_Sequoia  wrote:

> You want to a guess what the MaxPower is listed for the Logitech V20
> portable usb speakers are that are plugged into my pc?
>
> I'll give you one guess.
>
> Yep, MaxPower is listed as 590 mA
>
> "The USB 1.x and 2.0 specifications provide a 5 V supply on a single wire
> to power connected USB devices.
>
> A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A
> device may draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0;
> 6 (900 mA) in USB 3.0."
>
> "Bus 003 Device 002: ID 046d:0a04 Logitech, Inc. V20 portable speakers
> (USB powered)
> Device Descriptor:
>   bLength18
>   bDescriptorType 1
>   bcdUSB   1.10
>   bDeviceClass0
>   bDeviceSubClass 0
>   bDeviceProtocol 0
>   bMaxPacketSize0 8
>   idVendor   0x046d Logitech, Inc.
>   idProduct  0x0a04 V20 portable speakers (USB powered)
>   bcdDevice0.07
>   iManufacturer   1 Logitech
>   iProduct2 Logitech USB Speaker
>   iSerial 0
>   bNumConfigurations  1
>   Configuration Descriptor:
> bLength 9
> bDescriptorType 2
> wTotalLength   0x00e9
> bNumInterfaces  3
> bConfigurationValue 1
> iConfiguration  3 G6 2005/03/29 10:05
> bmAttributes 0xc0
>   Self Powered
> MaxPower  500mA
>
>
> The total RMS Power of the Logitech V20 Portable USB Speakers = 2 W or
> 2000 mA.
> .
>

Yikes, since when 2W at 5V is 2000mA?

-Tomas


>

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub - LSUSB MaxPower

[MC_Sequoia]

You want to a guess what the MaxPower is listed for the Logitech V20 portable 
usb speakers are that are plugged into my pc?

I'll give you one guess. 

Yep, MaxPower is listed as 590 mA

"The USB 1.x and 2.0 specifications provide a 5 V supply on a single wire to 
power connected USB devices.

A unit load is defined as 100 mA in USB 2.0, and 150 mA in USB 3.0. A device 
may draw a maximum of 5 unit loads (500 mA) from a port in USB 2.0; 6 (900 mA) 
in USB 3.0."

"Bus 003 Device 002: ID 046d:0a04 Logitech, Inc. V20 portable speakers (USB 
powered)
Device Descriptor:
  bLength18
  bDescriptorType 1
  bcdUSB   1.10
  bDeviceClass0 
  bDeviceSubClass 0 
  bDeviceProtocol 0 
  bMaxPacketSize0 8
  idVendor   0x046d Logitech, Inc.
  idProduct  0x0a04 V20 portable speakers (USB powered)
  bcdDevice0.07
  iManufacturer   1 Logitech
  iProduct2 Logitech USB Speaker
  iSerial 0 
  bNumConfigurations  1
  Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength   0x00e9
bNumInterfaces  3
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration  3 G6 2005/03/29 10:05
bmAttributes 0xc0
  Self Powered
MaxPower  500mA


The total RMS Power of the Logitech V20 Portable USB Speakers = 2 W or 2000 mA. 

Whether I'm driving audio through the speakers our not, the MaxPower stays at 
500 mA. 

LSUSB MaxPower is the power output of the USB port the USB device is connected 
to and not what that MaxPower of the device is or can take. 

All the USB ports on my pc are 2.0, if you've a mix of USB ports or different 
PCs with different USB port specs, you can prove this by moving the USB device 
to the different ports and checking the MaxPower that LSUSB lists.



Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

--- Original Message ---
On Tuesday, January 17th, 2023 at 2:59 PM, Galen Seitz  
wrote:


> On 1/17/23 14:48, MC_Sequoia wrote:
> ...snip...
> 
> > So, in conclusion I think the "MaxPower" data point provided by lsusb
> > command is about the bus electrical output capacity that the device
> > is connected to and not about the device itself that's connected to
> > the usb bus.
> 
> 
> This is not true, at least not for a USB device (not a hub). The
> MaxPower descriptor contains the maximum current that the device will
> ever draw. Properly designed USB devices first come up in a low power
> state where they draw 100 mA or less. The software driving the USB
> system calculates how much power is available. If there is sufficient
> power available, then the system initializes the device and allows it to
> go to its desired higher power state.
> 
> 
> galen
> --
> Galen Seitz
> gal...@seitzassoc.com

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Galen Seitz]

On 1/17/23 09:43, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Galen Seitz wrote:


Sorry, I haven't been following this thread too closely, but if this is a
device you already own, you can look this up yourself. First use lsusb to
find the vendor and product ID values for the USB device of interest. 
Then

use lsusb again to get more information about the device.


Galen,

What a valuable lesson!

# lsusb -v -d 1235:8211 | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower'
   iProduct    3 Scarlett Solo USB
     MaxPower  500mA

This suggests to me that a less expensive hub with fewer ports that has at
least 50W published power would work with all three devices.


FYI, the typical 4 port powered USB 2.0 hub is supplied with a 5V 
adapter that is capable of ~2A, or about 500 mA per port.  With a USB 
3.0 hub where the per port current limit is 900 mA, the max adapter 
current should be higher, but it's unlikely the adapter would be sized 
to allow the max current on every port.


Hubs that have high (>15W) wattage are likely intended to support some 
sort of charging of phones/tablets/etc where communication regarding the 
larger current capability is communicated through a different mechanism.


Once again, the above does not directly apply to USB C hubs that support 
power delivery.


Rich, if you have three devices that draw 500 mA, a hub with a 2A 
adapter should be sufficient.  Look for a hub with a 2.5A or 3A adapter 
if one or two of your devices draw 900 mA.


BTW, I can guarantee you that virtually all of the crazy USB-powered 
things you can buy do *not* have USB descriptors.  Your Ronco USB fan, 
light, and turnip twaddler connect to VUSB (5V) and immediately attempt 
to draw whatever they need, regardless of any intended USB constraints. 
Buyer beware.



galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub - LSUSB MaxPower

[Galen Seitz]

On 1/17/23 14:48, MC_Sequoia wrote:
...snip...

So, in conclusion I think the "MaxPower" data point provided by lsusb
command is about the bus electrical output capacity that the device
is connected to and not about the device itself that's connected to
the usb bus.


This is not true, at least not for a USB device (not a hub).  The 
MaxPower descriptor contains the maximum current that the device will 
ever draw.  Properly designed USB devices first come up in a low power 
state where they draw 100 mA or less.  The software driving the USB 
system calculates how much power is available.  If there is sufficient 
power available, then the system initializes the device and allows it to 
go to its desired higher power state.



galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub - LSUSB MaxPower

[MC_Sequoia]

I was a bit skeptical about this MaxPower rating for a couple of reasons so I 
did some digging and I think I found some evidence to support my 
skepticism. 

Why is MaxPower given in Amps and not Watts? 

I suspect it's because MaxPOower refers to the usb bus and not the usb device 
connected to it. 

Here's 2 data points to support that theory.

1. "USB device configuration descriptor expresses bus power electrical current 
requirement in field bMaxPower." 

"usbutils 008 lsusb misreports MaxPower for SuperSpeed devices.  For example, 
lsusb -v outputs 'MaxPower 500mA' when a device is connected on 
High Speed bus, but 'MaxPower 224mA' when connected on SuperSpeed bus. usbfs 
devices holds correct 'MxPwr=896mA'."

Reference - https://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-usb/msg124590.html

SuperSpeed and HighSpeed refer to different USB bus standards. 

"SuperSpeed USB is ten times faster than USB 2.0 (also called HighSpeed USB) 
and increases the power output from about 100 milliamps to 900 milliamps."

Reference - 
https://www.techtarget.com/searchwindowsserver/definition/USB-30-SuperSpeed-USB

2. Electrical devices are rated by watts that you can find listed on them and 
circuit breakers are rated in amps. Why?

Because the amp rating is about capacity/output. For example, my rechargeable 
battery charger says:
 "Output - 220 mA - AA x 2
80 mA - AAA x 2

3. "As with earlier versions of USB, USB 3.0 provides power at 5 volts nominal. 
The available current for low-power (one unit load) SuperSpeed devices is 150 
mA, an increase from the 100 mA defined in USB 2.0. For high-power SuperSpeed 
devices, the limit is six unit loads or 900 mA (4.5 W)—almost twice USB 2.0's 
500 mA.[12]: section 9.2.5.1 Power Budgeting 

USB 3.0 ports may implement other USB specifications for increased power, 
including the USB Battery Charging Specification for up to 1.5 A or 7.5 W, or, 
in the case of USB 3.1, the USB Power Delivery Specification for charging the 
host device up to 100 W.[14]"

Reference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0

So, in conclusion I think the "MaxPower" data point provided by lsusb command 
is about the bus electrical output capacity that the device is connected to and 
not about the device itself that's connected to the usb bus.

This might not affect your buying decision, but I think it's worth having 
correct information and understanding what you're working with. 

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Galen Seitz wrote:


Sorry, I haven't been following this thread too closely, but if this is a
device you already own, you can look this up yourself. First use lsusb to
find the vendor and product ID values for the USB device of interest. Then
use lsusb again to get more information about the device.


Galen,

What a valuable lesson!

# lsusb -v -d 1235:8211 | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower'
  iProduct3 Scarlett Solo USB
MaxPower  500mA

This suggests to me that a less expensive hub with fewer ports that has at
least 50W published power would work with all three devices.

Thanks very much,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Galen Seitz]

On 1/17/23 07:08, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:

That's probably fine. My rule of thumb is to not PLUG higher end hubs 
into
lower end ports. e.g. a bunch of USB 3.0 devices in a hub that 
connects to

a USB 2.0 host.


The Sabrent HB-7B3C provides 900mA to each USB port. I assume that's not
what the webcam and headphones draw. Just sent a message to Focusrite 
asking

how much power the Scarlett Solo Gen 3 draws.


Sorry, I haven't been following this thread too closely, but if this is a
device you already own, you can look this up yourself.  First use lsusb
to find the vendor and product ID values for the USB device of interest.
Then use lsusb again to get more information about the device.

Here I've chosen to find the current used by my scanner.

$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 005: ID 046d:c404 Logitech, Inc. TrackMan Wheel
Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0472:0065 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd PFU-65 Keyboard 
[Chicony]
Bus 002 Device 003: ID 0472:0065 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd PFU-65 Keyboard 
[Chicony]
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 007: ID 051d:0002 American Power Conversion Uninterruptible 
Power Supply
Bus 001 Device 005: ID 0a12:0001 Cambridge Silicon Radio, Ltd Bluetooth Dongle 
(HCI mode)
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 04a9:220d Canon, Inc. CanoScan N670U/N676U/LiDE 20
Bus 001 Device 014: ID 0403:6001 Future Technology Devices International, Ltd 
FT232 Serial (UART) IC
Bus 001 Device 009: ID 1d50:6018 OpenMoko, Inc. Black Magic Debug Probe 
(Application)
Bus 001 Device 008: ID 1a40:0201 Terminus Technology Inc. FE 2.1 7-port Hub
Bus 001 Device 011: ID 1679:2001 Total Phase Beagle Protocol Analyzer
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 1a40:0201 Terminus Technology Inc. FE 2.1 7-port Hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

$ lsusb -v -d 04a9:220d | egrep 'iProduct|MaxPower'
  iProduct2 CanoScan
MaxPower  500mA

My scanner draws a max of 500 mA, assuming the manufacturer hasn't lied
when generating the data for the device descriptors.  Since the units are
mA, MaxPower is a misnomer.  Actual max power would be 2.5W.

Note that everything above doesn't necessarily apply if USB C Power Delivery
is being used.  With power delivery, the voltage is no longer necessarily
5V.  I'm not sure how the descriptors change in order to accommodate this.


galen
--
Galen Seitz
gal...@seitzassoc.com

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:


That's probably fine. My rule of thumb is to not PLUG higher end hubs into
lower end ports. e.g. a bunch of USB 3.0 devices in a hub that connects to
a USB 2.0 host.


The Sabrent HB-7B3C provides 900mA to each USB port. I assume that's not
what the webcam and headphones draw. Just sent a message to Focusrite asking
how much power the Scarlett Solo Gen 3 draws.

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Ben Koenig]

--- Original Message ---
On Monday, January 16th, 2023 at 4:12 PM, Rich Shepard 
 wrote:


> On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:
> 
> > Whoops, no AR/VR is Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality. As in VR
> > headsets. I've seen a lot of motherboards brag about USB ports that are
> > dedicated to that purpose which just means that it's a more robust
> > implementation.
> 
> 
> Ben,
> 
> Oh. I've always found reality to be ideal, just as it is.

LOL. When someone figures out how to build a reality where powered USB hubs 
don't need to be power cycled regularly, I'll hop onboard. Until then I'm 
staying with the one we got. 

-Ben

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:


Whoops, no AR/VR is Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality. As in VR
headsets. I've seen a lot of motherboards brag about USB ports that are
dedicated to that purpose which just means that it's a more robust
implementation.


Ben,

Oh. I've always found reality to be ideal, just as it is.


I looked up your mobo and it looks like it has that setup. On the back of
the PRIME X470-PRO there is a single USB Type A connector right next to a
USB-C connector. This is actually a single port, and you should treat it
as such. If you plug your HUB into one of those ports and leave the other
empty then it probably won't get cranky when other stuff is happening. You
can even get a USB-C compatible hub to minimize RF interference!


I'm not sure if I'm using that USB-A port, but can replace it if so. I know
there's nothing in the USB-C port.

I'm checking with Sabrent to see what they recommend.


Also, logitech webcams don't count as video recording so as long as you
keep it simple you should be fine. It's not like you are pulling down
1080p frames at 30fps in a lossless format.


Nah. The videos are posted on my YouTube business channel and I use the
webcam for jitsi and similar on-line meetings.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Ben Koenig]

-Ben


--- Original Message ---
On Monday, January 16th, 2023 at 3:50 PM, Rich Shepard 
 wrote:


> On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:
> 
> > That's probably fine. My rule of thumb is to not PLUG higher end hubs into
> > lower end ports. e.g. a bunch of USB 3.0 devices in a hub that connects to
> > a USB 2.0 host.
> 
> 
> Ben,
> 
> Makes sense to me.
> 
> > But it sounds like your board has some of the fancier new ports. I bet
> > it's listed as a single port because newer USB speeds can do a multi-lane
> > thing for higher speeds. I bet both connects are tied together so if you
> > leave one empty you might actually get the full 10Gbps. But using both
> > simultaneously will probably throttle each to 5Gbps.
> 
> 
> I'm not concerned about data transfer rates, but preparing video tutorials.
> 
> > So it should be fine. You aren't doing any serious data transfers or AR/VR
> > so it should handle things. Test and verify the hub when you get it since
> > they can be wonky. Especially the bigger hubs, 10 external ports is the
> > pinnacle of hedonism.
> 
> 
> I assume AR and VR refer to audio recording and video recording? If so,
> that's just what I want to do.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rich

Whoops, no AR/VR is Augmented Reality and Virtual Reality. As in VR headsets. 
I've seen a lot of motherboards brag about USB ports that are dedicated to that 
purpose which just means that it's a more robust implementation. 

I looked up your mobo and it looks like it has that setup. On the back of the 
PRIME X470-PRO there is a single USB Type A connector right next to a USB-C 
connector. This is actually a single port, and you should treat it as such. If 
you plug your HUB into one of those ports and leave the other empty then it 
probably won't get cranky when other stuff is happening. You can even get a 
USB-C compatible hub to minimize RF interference!

Also, logitech webcams don't count as video recording so as long as you keep it 
simple you should be fine. It's not like you are pulling down 1080p frames at 
30fps in a lossless format.
-Ben

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:


That's probably fine. My rule of thumb is to not PLUG higher end hubs into
lower end ports. e.g. a bunch of USB 3.0 devices in a hub that connects to
a USB 2.0 host.


Ben,

Makes sense to me.


But it sounds like your board has some of the fancier new ports. I bet
it's listed as a single port because newer USB speeds can do a multi-lane
thing for higher speeds. I bet both connects are tied together so if you
leave one empty you might actually get the full 10Gbps. But using both
simultaneously will probably throttle each to 5Gbps.


I'm not concerned about data transfer rates, but preparing video tutorials.


So it should be fine. You aren't doing any serious data transfers or AR/VR
so it should handle things. Test and verify the hub when you get it since
they can be wonky. Especially the bigger hubs, 10 external ports is the
pinnacle of hedonism.


I assume AR and VR refer to audio recording and video recording? If so,
that's just what I want to do.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Ben Koenig]

That's probably fine. My rule of thumb is to not PLUG higher end hubs into 
lower end ports. e.g. a bunch of USB 3.0 devices in a hub that connects to a 
USB 2.0 host. 

But it sounds like your board has some of the fancier new ports. I bet it's 
listed as a single port because newer USB speeds can do a multi-lane thing for 
higher speeds. I bet both connects are tied together so if you leave one empty 
you might actually get the full 10Gbps. But using both simultaneously will 
probably throttle each to 5Gbps. 

So it should be fine. You aren't doing any serious data transfers or AR/VR so 
it should handle things. Test and verify the hub when you get it since they can 
be wonky. Especially the bigger hubs, 10 external ports is the pinnacle of 
hedonism.
-Ben


--- Original Message ---
On Monday, January 16th, 2023 at 3:21 PM, Rich Shepard 
 wrote:


> On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:
> 
> > What kind of USB ports does your desktop have? Check version and detected
> > speed.
> 
> 
> Ben,
> 
> The Asus PRIME X470-PRO in this desktop has:
> - 4 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5Gbps) at back panel (blue)
> - 1 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gbps) front panel connector (yet, there are 2
> ports visible on the front panel.)
> - etc on mid-board
> 
> The front panel has mic (red) and headphone (green) ports on the front.
> Perhaps, I could connect the headphone mini-phono plug in the green port,
> perhaps a USB-A female port -> mini-phone plug for the microphone/Focusrite
> 
> pre-amp, and use one of the front panel ports for the webcam. But, a USB hub
> would be more convenient; I'd leave the components attached and connect the
> hub to the desktop when needed.
> 
> Your advice, please,
> 
> Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, MC_Sequoia wrote:


I've long been a fan of Tom's Hardware as trustworthy source of good
information on pc hardware.


Me, too. But I don't understand what the power ratings mean for the hub. Do
they power pre-amps, webcams, headphones up to the listed value, or does
that value relate to the device charging ports?

I think the power supplied by the motherboard to those ports is limited so
too many devices cause one or more to fail to be powered.


They write reviews based on actual tests and they explain their testing
methodology for power output, data throughput/bottleneck, etc.

I saw a Sabrent and Anker hub listed in their top 10 list.


The Sabrent is USB-A, the Anker is USB-C apparently for Apple products.

Thanks,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023, Ben Koenig wrote:


What kind of USB ports does your desktop have? Check version and detected
speed.


Ben,

The Asus PRIME X470-PRO in this desktop has:
  - 4 x USB 3.1 Gen 1 (up to 5Gbps) at back panel (blue)
  - 1 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 (up to 10Gbps) front panel connector (yet, there are 2
ports visible on the front panel.)
  - etc on mid-board

The front panel has mic (red) and headphone (green) ports on the front.
Perhaps, I could connect the headphone mini-phono plug in the green port,
perhaps a USB-A female port -> mini-phone plug for the microphone/Focusrite
pre-amp, and use one of the front panel ports for the webcam. But, a USB hub
would be more convenient; I'd leave the components attached and connect the
hub to the desktop when needed.

Your advice, please,

Rich

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[MC_Sequoia]

I've long been a fan of Tom's Hardware as trustworthy source of good 
information on pc hardware. They write reviews based on actual tests and they 
explain their testing methodology for power output, data throughput/bottleneck, 
etc. 

I saw a Sabrent and Anker hub listed in their top 10 list. 

https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-usb-hubs

The reviews provide quite a bit of info for each hub as well as some other good 
hubs that aren't the best in class but worth considering.

For example, one of the hub models has less hubs, 7 instead of 10, but it's 
only $6 cheaper and you don't get any dedicated charging ports. 

Which as more and more devices are usb rechargeable, I'm always in need of more 
usb charging ports.

Re: [PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Ben Koenig]

What kind of USB ports does your desktop have? Check version and detected speed.

-Ben
Sent from ProtonMail mobile

 Original Message 
On Jan 16, 2023, 2:49 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:

> Hi hardware gurus, I have a couple of low cost, powered USB-A hubs, but they 
> are limited to the input devices they'll support. The front panel of my 
> desktops have 2 USB-A ports. I want to connect a Focusrite microphone 
> pre-amp, a Logitech web cam, and a Panasonic headphone to a powered hub that 
> is connected to a single desktop (or laptop). My web search finds a SABRENT 
> 60W 10 Port USB 3.0 Hub, an ACASIS 16 Ports 90W USB 3.0 Data Hub, an Anker 10 
> Port 60W Data Hub, and others with lower listed power, or no listed power. 
> Would any of these be suitable for my application? Rich

[PLUG] Powered USB-A hub

[Rich Shepard]

Hi hardware gurus,

I have a couple of low cost, powered USB-A hubs, but they are limited to the
input devices they'll support.

The front panel of my desktops have 2 USB-A ports. I want to connect a
Focusrite microphone pre-amp, a Logitech web cam, and a Panasonic headphone
to a powered hub that is connected to a single desktop (or laptop).

My web search finds a SABRENT 60W 10 Port USB 3.0 Hub, an ACASIS 16 Ports
90W USB 3.0 Data Hub, an Anker 10 Port 60W Data Hub, and others with lower
listed power, or no listed power. Would any of these be suitable for my
application?

Rich