Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Nat Taylor wrote: I have had good luck with used laptops. You have to assume that you're gonna buy a new battery, and maybe a hard drive. Run a bunch of tests on it, and use the keyboard and trackpad a bunch before you buy it in person, or get a trial period. They are cheap enough on ebay you could fix a lot. How about this one, $500, from a seller with a great reputation. You could probably do better if you looked harder, but this is not a bad deal, and it should run linux fine. I'd buy a bigger hard drive. Wonder if those take two...? Nat, Thanks for the insights and URL. That does look like a good deal, but the storage does need updating. Regards, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, TomasK wrote: Lenovo Thinkpad T14 and X13s are supported on linux - you can even get some of them with linux preinstalled. Tomas, I install Slackware on all hosts. I don't recall if my old Dell came with an empty hard drive or had some OS installed. First thing I did was repartition the hard drive and install Slackware. I cannot recommend Dells shipping with Linux right now - they ended up being devoid of even basic number of USB ports recently. Yes, the newer ones so seem to lack ports. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Patrick O'Connor wrote: Thinkpad t480I got a used one this year. Thanks, Patrick. Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
https://community.frame.work/t/ubuntu-21-04-on-the-framework-laptop/2722 ~~R StGeorge On 2/25/22 09:13, Randy Bush wrote: i am tempted by the FrameWork, but anything other than ubuntu might take work randy
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
I have had good luck with used laptops. You have to assume that you're gonna buy a new battery, and maybe a hard drive. Run a bunch of tests on it, and use the keyboard and trackpad a bunch before you buy it in person, or get a trial period. They are cheap enough on ebay you could fix a lot. How about this one, $500, from a seller with a great reputation. You could probably do better if you looked harder, but this is not a bad deal, and it should run linux fine. I'd buy a bigger hard drive. Wonder if those take two...? https://www.ebay.com/itm/294771954585 30 day free returns. The trackpad on the used ASUS I bought is a little wonky, but I see a new one from ASUS for $29. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 5:30 PM TomasK wrote: > Lenovo Thinkpad T14 and X13s are supported on linux - you can even get > some of them with linux preinstalled. > > I usually aim for newest supported HW to extend useful live - so, the > last time I ended up paying MS tax, but I still get bios updates via > fwupdmgr and everything working without issues. > > I cannot recommend Dells shipping with Linux right now - they ended up > being devoid of even basic number of USB ports recently. If you do not > need more than 1 or 2 USB-C ports (one taken by the charger) - and can > receive Fed-Ex delivery (I cannot - no office front) - Dell's XPS13 are > pretty nice computers too. > > ... there are more linux laptops out there -though I did not try them. > > Tomas > > On Fri, 2022-02-25 at 08:32 -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > > I think it's time to replace my Dell Latitude E5410 since it's giving > > me > > fits installing Slackware64-15.0. It's run Slackware since about > > 2010, > > upgraded as new releases became available, but now it has major > > issues with > > the new release and a full, clean installation. (My Lenovo ThinkPad > > X200 has > > no issues with 15.0 but is too limited as a portable work station.) > > > > I'm looking at Dell and Lenovo ThinkPads, 13"-14" screens preferred, > > but I > > accept that 15"+ are now the most common. I also want to spend as > > little as > > necessary to get a reliable laptop that will last like the Dell and > > X200 > > have. > > > > Recommendations and suggestions solicited. > > > > Rich >
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 20:30:13 -0500 TomasK dijo: >I cannot recommend Dells shipping with Linux right now - they ended up >being devoid of even basic number of USB ports recently. If you do not >need more than 1 or 2 USB-C ports (one taken by the charger) - and can >receive Fed-Ex delivery (I cannot - no office front) - Dell's XPS13 are >pretty nice computers too. Yeah, current Dells are short on USB ports - my new Latitude 7275 has only two, and one is for power. Not only that, they are right next to each other. I had to invest in a dock; inconvenient for a laptop. Not only that, no ethernet port.
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
Lenovo Thinkpad T14 and X13s are supported on linux - you can even get some of them with linux preinstalled. I usually aim for newest supported HW to extend useful live - so, the last time I ended up paying MS tax, but I still get bios updates via fwupdmgr and everything working without issues. I cannot recommend Dells shipping with Linux right now - they ended up being devoid of even basic number of USB ports recently. If you do not need more than 1 or 2 USB-C ports (one taken by the charger) - and can receive Fed-Ex delivery (I cannot - no office front) - Dell's XPS13 are pretty nice computers too. ... there are more linux laptops out there -though I did not try them. Tomas On Fri, 2022-02-25 at 08:32 -0800, Rich Shepard wrote: > I think it's time to replace my Dell Latitude E5410 since it's giving > me > fits installing Slackware64-15.0. It's run Slackware since about > 2010, > upgraded as new releases became available, but now it has major > issues with > the new release and a full, clean installation. (My Lenovo ThinkPad > X200 has > no issues with 15.0 but is too limited as a portable work station.) > > I'm looking at Dell and Lenovo ThinkPads, 13"-14" screens preferred, > but I > accept that 15"+ are now the most common. I also want to spend as > little as > necessary to get a reliable laptop that will last like the Dell and > X200 > have. > > Recommendations and suggestions solicited. > > Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Ben Koenig wrote: For the ntpd issue you might want to check and see if you are getting an iP address. The error message you posted on LQ almost looks like the network isn't coming up in time which is not unusual when you select the rc.inet1 scripts to configure your network. I know for a fact that if you use rc.inet1 it will block until an IP address is assigned. Ben, Great catch, Willy Mays! I had the Ethernet cable disconnected. Just put it back and ntpd found a new interface and is waking up the resolver. Ergo, I need to check /etc/resolv.conf. Also worth considering the possibility of hardware issues since you didn't have any issues with 15.0 on a different machine. Intermittent keyboard failure can result in the password failing even when typed correctly. I'm currently dealing with a spacebar that likes to register twice when pressed once :( Interesting. I'll see if that's an issue. Regards, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, David Bridges wrote: If you do decide to take a look at used equipment and you don't mind buying out of state I think that https://discountelectronics.com/ is a nice place to buy equipment from. Thanks, David. That's good to know. Regards, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Robert Citek wrote: Hope that's helpful. And let us know how things go for you. Robert, It's why I'm working to get the Dell working reliably once again. It satisfies all my needs with the 8G memory and 500G SSD. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Bill Barry wrote: This could be some type of network issue. Maybe the rc.ntpd script is expecting the network to be up but that now happens later in the bootup and so it just hangs waiting for something that is not there. Did you write the rc.ntpd script or is it part of this fresh Slackware installation? Bill, rc.ntpd has always been in the Slackware core distribution. Next time I boot I'll time the delay at that point; it's probably just longer than I gave it before and certainly tolerable. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
If you do decide to take a look at used equipment and you don't mind buying out of state I think that https://discountelectronics.com/ is a nice place to buy equipment from. I've bought lots of servers, workstations, and laptops from them over the years. If you are looking for refurbished Dell or HP stuff it might be worth it for you to check them out. They are based in Austin and get new stuff almost daily. Almost all systems come with a 1 year warranty. -- David -Original Message- From: Russell Senior Reply-To: Portland Linux/Unix Group To: Rich Shepard , Portland Linux/Unix Group Subject: Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2022 12:26:07 -0800 My 2¢. Look at the FreeGeek ebay store. They have recycled laptops for cheap, already running Linux. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 8:32 AM Rich Shepard wrote: > > I think it's time to replace my Dell Latitude E5410 since it's giving > me > fits installing Slackware64-15.0. It's run Slackware since about > 2010, > upgraded as new releases became available, but now it has major > issues with > the new release and a full, clean installation. (My Lenovo ThinkPad > X200 has > no issues with 15.0 but is too limited as a portable work station.) > > I'm looking at Dell and Lenovo ThinkPads, 13"-14" screens preferred, > but I > accept that 15"+ are now the most common. I also want to spend as > little as > necessary to get a reliable laptop that will last like the Dell and > X200 > have. > > Recommendations and suggestions solicited. > > Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 2:08 PM Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Bill Barry wrote: > > > So this is on a totally clean install of the newest version of Slackware? > > That's a major bug. Seems like someone else would have noticed this. Is > > there a slightly newer version where this might be fixed? > > Bill, > > I think the boot process for the 5.15.19 kernel is why it hangs at ntpd. > Just now I walked away and started cooking lunch and it eventually completed > booting. This pause is new; I acknowledge that it's probably due to the > newer kernal and no longer an issue. This could be some type of network issue. Maybe the rc.ntpd script is expecting the network to be up but that now happens later in the bootup and so it just hangs waiting for something that is not there. Did you write the rc.ntpd script or is it part of this fresh Slackware installation? Bill
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Russell Senior wrote: My 2¢. Look at the FreeGeek ebay store. They have recycled laptops for cheap, already running Linux. Thanks, Russell. I forgot that the online store is still working. Regards, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
My 2¢. Look at the FreeGeek ebay store. They have recycled laptops for cheap, already running Linux. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 8:32 AM Rich Shepard wrote: > > I think it's time to replace my Dell Latitude E5410 since it's giving me > fits installing Slackware64-15.0. It's run Slackware since about 2010, > upgraded as new releases became available, but now it has major issues with > the new release and a full, clean installation. (My Lenovo ThinkPad X200 has > no issues with 15.0 but is too limited as a portable work station.) > > I'm looking at Dell and Lenovo ThinkPads, 13"-14" screens preferred, but I > accept that 15"+ are now the most common. I also want to spend as little as > necessary to get a reliable laptop that will last like the Dell and X200 > have. > > Recommendations and suggestions solicited. > > Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
Wow! This is a highly personal question that really depends on your use cases. But for a point of comparison, my use cases tend to be bimodal. That is, my compute needs are either very light ( email, browsing, text editing ) or very heavy ( analysis of scores of TB ) with very little in between. So, for the light compute needs, I use a Chromebook with the Linux VM enabled ( Debian 11 ) running Docker ( every other distro ) For the heavy, I use the cloud ( AWS, GCP, Azure, Digital Ocean, etc. ) and connect to them using specific environments I create within Docker ( e.g. AWS CLI ). Hope that's helpful. And let us know how things go for you. Regards, - Robert On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 9:33 AM Rich Shepard wrote: > I think it's time to replace my Dell Latitude E5410 since it's giving me > fits installing Slackware64-15.0. It's run Slackware since about 2010, > upgraded as new releases became available, but now it has major issues with > the new release and a full, clean installation. (My Lenovo ThinkPad X200 > has > no issues with 15.0 but is too limited as a portable work station.) > > I'm looking at Dell and Lenovo ThinkPads, 13"-14" screens preferred, but I > accept that 15"+ are now the most common. I also want to spend as little as > necessary to get a reliable laptop that will last like the Dell and X200 > have. > > Recommendations and suggestions solicited. > > Rich >
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Bill Barry wrote: So this is on a totally clean install of the newest version of Slackware? That's a major bug. Seems like someone else would have noticed this. Is there a slightly newer version where this might be fixed? Bill, I think the boot process for the 5.15.19 kernel is why it hangs at ntpd. Just now I walked away and started cooking lunch and it eventually completed booting. This pause is new; I acknowledge that it's probably due to the newer kernal and no longer an issue. This needs more explanation. When is it returning to the login prompt? After you have successfully logged in? Or are you not getting logged in at all? Well, it was when I tried logging in as a user; root had no issues. Just now there was no problem. Over the weekend I'll keep testing; it may well be something that has decided to go away. More details when I have some. Thanks again, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 1:36 PM Rich Shepard wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Bill Barry wrote: > > > What kind of major issues installing slackware? I would think the best > > laptop is the one you have. I don't think they have not improved > > dramatically over the last few years in any dimension that will matter to > > you. You don't need a high end gaming graphics card or an expensive gpu to > > do machine learning do you? The most relevant thing that has improved are > > SSD interfaces, but even there I would not think you really need a cutting > > edge SSD drive. You could just figure out what the problem is with the > > installation. > > Bill, > > I'd much prefer to get the Dell running consistently. It's met all my needs > as a portable work station since I bought it. And it has a fairly new 500G > SSD installed (and I think it's a Samsung; I don't have the specs recorded > here.) > > The two issues I've encountered (which did not appear in earlier Slackware > versions on it) are: > > 1) Booting hanging when loading ntpd, despite rc.ntpd (the script that loads > it on demand) is not executable. Doesn't happen every time which makes it > difficult to diagnose. So this is on a totally clean install of the newest version of Slackware? That's a major bug. Seems like someone else would have noticed this. Is there a slightly newer version where this might be fixed? > > 2) Inability to log in as a user. There's no error, only a return to the > login prompt. Again, intermittent, but has not happened on any desktop or > laptop I've used since I switched from Red Hat to Slackware in 2003. This needs more explanation. When is it returning to the login prompt? After you have successfully logged in? Or are you not getting logged in at all? Bill
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Bill Barry wrote: What kind of major issues installing slackware? I would think the best laptop is the one you have. I don't think they have not improved dramatically over the last few years in any dimension that will matter to you. You don't need a high end gaming graphics card or an expensive gpu to do machine learning do you? The most relevant thing that has improved are SSD interfaces, but even there I would not think you really need a cutting edge SSD drive. You could just figure out what the problem is with the installation. Bill, I'd much prefer to get the Dell running consistently. It's met all my needs as a portable work station since I bought it. And it has a fairly new 500G SSD installed (and I think it's a Samsung; I don't have the specs recorded here.) The two issues I've encountered (which did not appear in earlier Slackware versions on it) are: 1) Booting hanging when loading ntpd, despite rc.ntpd (the script that loads it on demand) is not executable. Doesn't happen every time which makes it difficult to diagnose. 2) Inability to log in as a user. There's no error, only a return to the login prompt. Again, intermittent, but has not happened on any desktop or laptop I've used since I switched from Red Hat to Slackware in 2003. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Nat Taylor wrote: I just bought an ASUS TUF for the graphics card, but my X220 is still going strong and the battery (that I bough maybe 5 years ago) is still going strong, so if I replace that laptop, I’ll go for another used Thinkpad. The ASUS ultrabooks also looked like a good choice potentially. Nat, Like the Lenovo X1 Carbon and Dell XPS 13, that's pretty pricy for less storage and memory. My ThinkPad X200 is fitted with a new battery (several years ago). I prefer to not buy a used or refurbished laptop because I don't know just how good it would be. Looking at reburbs on Amazon there are quite a few reviews that the company refurbishing them did very poor work. Makes me leary. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Nat Taylor wrote: How about an X1 Carbon or an XPS 13? Nat, Amazon wants about $1600 for the X1 Carbon and about $1300 for the XPS 13. The DIY FrameWork costs about $1050 for 16G RAM and 1T storage. Plus my assembly time, of course. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 10:32 AM Rich Shepard wrote: > > I think it's time to replace my Dell Latitude E5410 since it's giving me > fits installing Slackware64-15.0. It's run Slackware since about 2010, > upgraded as new releases became available, but now it has major issues with > the new release and a full, clean installation. (My Lenovo ThinkPad X200 has > no issues with 15.0 but is too limited as a portable work station.) > > I'm looking at Dell and Lenovo ThinkPads, 13"-14" screens preferred, but I > accept that 15"+ are now the most common. I also want to spend as little as > necessary to get a reliable laptop that will last like the Dell and X200 > have. > > Recommendations and suggestions solicited. What kind of major issues installing slackware? I would think the best laptop is the one you have. I don't think they have not improved dramatically over the last few years in any dimension that will matter to you. You don't need a high end gaming graphics card or an expensive gpu to do machine learning do you? The most relevant thing that has improved are SSD interfaces, but even there I would not think you really need a cutting edge SSD drive. You could just figure out what the problem is with the installation. Bill
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Randy Bush wrote: i am tempted by the FrameWork, but anything other than ubuntu might take work Randy, While the cost is higher than I'd like I think it should more than pay for the difference by its ability to be upgraded and have components replaced if necessary. Since I continue to use my computers for years and not frequently upgrade the DIY FrameWork looks more attractive than the big brands' offerings which are not that much lower in cost when configured similarly. Regards, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
I just bought an ASUS TUF for the graphics card, but my X220 is still going strong and the battery (that I bough maybe 5 years ago) is still going strong, so if I replace that laptop, I’ll go for another used Thinkpad. The ASUS ultrabooks also looked like a good choice potentially. On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 10:58 AM Nat Taylor wrote: > How about an X1 Carbon or an XPS 13? > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 9:31 AM Rich Shepard > wrote: > >> On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Randy Bush wrote: >> >> >> What company makes a laptop named FrameWork? >> > >> > https://frame.work/ :) >> >> Randy, >> >> Of course. :-) >> >> Above my budget (for the DIY) but looks really good. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Rich >> >
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
How about an X1 Carbon or an XPS 13? On Fri, Feb 25, 2022 at 9:31 AM Rich Shepard wrote: > On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Randy Bush wrote: > > >> What company makes a laptop named FrameWork? > > > > https://frame.work/ :) > > Randy, > > Of course. :-) > > Above my budget (for the DIY) but looks really good. > > Thanks, > > Rich >
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Randy Bush wrote: What company makes a laptop named FrameWork? https://frame.work/ :) Randy, Of course. :-) Above my budget (for the DIY) but looks really good. Thanks, Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
> What company makes a laptop named FrameWork? https://frame.work/ :) randy
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
On Fri, 25 Feb 2022, Randy Bush wrote: i am tempted by the FrameWork, but anything other than ubuntu might take work Randy, What company makes a laptop named FrameWork? Rich
Re: [PLUG] Replacement laptop
i am tempted by the FrameWork, but anything other than ubuntu might take work randy
