Re: Solving filter list management problem (was RMW in browser)
I do the same thing -- 'dummy' filters that act as dividers. Folders would be preferable, of course, as they would, when collapsed, actually shorten the filter list considerably, whereas our current workaround lengthens it. From my own point of view, the filter organisation issue is a completely different discussion/wish to the smart folders thing (although I acknowledge that there is some tangential* overlap, as Marlyse pointed out). Rick *Tangential to me, possibly not to others. -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio www.sharkattack.co.uk -- Original message: Received from Mikael Byström on 22/3/06 at 14:16 Currently as my solution to this problem I mark up the list with inactive filters in a fashion to become headlines and organize the relevant filters under these.
Re: RMW in browser
Oh, think we can have both, don't you? Rick I tend to be more of a lurker these days due to time. But I think Matthias hit this one on the head. There are a lot of areas that need attention in PowerMail, more so than others. IMAP support has always been hit-and-miss, and while I only use it at work, it is important enough and enough things are missing from IMAP in the current PowerMail incarnation, that I can't use it at work. Instead, I have shifted to Mail for my work environment and PM for home. But CTM is a very small company and I would rather see them focus on things that are really broken first, then as they find the time, improve the things which make our email lives easier, so I'll echo Matthias sentiments and say, no you can't have both because if we have both it will take another 6 months for an update. Let's just fix the really broken things for the next update and then move to the window dressing. Wayne
Re: RMW in browser
Oh, think we can have both, don't you? Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio www.sharkattack.co.uk -- Original message: Received from Matthias Schmidt on 22/3/06 at 14:07 On the other side, imho smart folders would be even nicer to have
Solving filter list management problem (was RMW in browser)
Rick Lecoat said: Actually Matthias, the folders that I would like to see in the filter window would be for organisation only and would be completely transparent to the filter run-order. Ie: Folder A filter 1 filter 2 filter 3 Folder B filter 4 filter 5 Would still result in the filters being applied this: filter 1 filter 2 filter 3 filter 4 filter 5 So no change to to the functionality. It would just help me to navigate through an increasingly unwieldy filter list by grouping filters visually. This solution address the current problem with the (for some people) unwieldy long list of filters in the filter window. I think it would be a good solution. I can think of others too, but it's still good. To reverse the view on the filter problem to start off with the resulting folder, when that is relevant, as Niemiec suggested, may be another good solution, though I'm not sure where it best be implemented GUI-wise nor if it actually has to have anything to do with the suggested smart folders. Currently as my solution to this problem I mark up the list with inactive filters in a fashion to become headlines and organize the relevant filters under these. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: RMW in browser
Rick, it's not that I didn't understand, what you want. And I also think it would be nice as an option, especially if one has tons of different filters. On the other side, imho smart folders would be even nicer to have and a better IMAP support. I guess coding and testing resources of ctm are limited, so I'd like to see some more important features coming soon instead of a lot of features coming never ;-) All the best Matthias --- Admilon Consulting GmbH http://www.admilon.com iChat/AIM: MatKoyasan Tel. +81-736-56-3905 --- Am/On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:49:31 + schrieb/wrote Rick Lecoat: Actually Matthias, the folders that I would like to see in the filter window would be for organisation only and would be completely transparent to the filter run-order. Ie: Folder A filter 1 filter 2 filter 3 Folder B filter 4 filter 5 Would still result in the filters being applied this: filter 1 filter 2 filter 3 filter 4 filter 5 So no change to to the functionality. It would just help me to navigate through an increasingly unwieldy filter list by grouping filters visually. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio www.sharkattack.co.uk -- Original message: Received from Matthias Schmidt on 22/3/06 at 04:18 But the GUI would be broken, if we'd get folders in the Filters-window and then those filters wouldn't work hierarchically.
Re: RMW in browser (smart folders and filters)
C. A. Niemiec said: I can pull a specific person's (smart folder) account to the top of my Folder List if it's getting more activity (I'm assuming user-resortable Folder Lists -- _CTM, see how useful this can be?_ :) ). Or, if there's a lull, I could drop that smart list back into the IBM folder like a subfolder (is it now called a smart sub-folder?). Assuming I have many corporate accounts, I could make a most active folder and pull all the busy smart sub-folders into it. Then I could delete them when done, or tuck them away in relevant containing folders as with the IBM example above. What I wouldn't be doing is having to clear out lots of filters from my filters list that have long passed on their usefulness because the messages they direct are no longer arriving, or even in the active database because they've been archived. I'm sure people with more e-mail than I could find better examples. Mikael, is that clear enough? Well, yes and no. I understand the solution, but not fully the problems being addressed by it. It's a very interesting discussion though. Please stay in the discussion all of you! I think we're on something fundamental here. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: RMW in browser
Original message: Received from Mikael Byström on 22/3/06 at 13:39 I'm still thinking about the problem space and trying to understand the somewhat obscure suggestions that have been made. Good for you. Me, I'm going to get on with some work. Rick
Re: RMW in browser
Actually Matthias, the folders that I would like to see in the filter window would be for organisation only and would be completely transparent to the filter run-order. Ie: Folder A filter 1 filter 2 filter 3 Folder B filter 4 filter 5 Would still result in the filters being applied this: filter 1 filter 2 filter 3 filter 4 filter 5 So no change to to the functionality. It would just help me to navigate through an increasingly unwieldy filter list by grouping filters visually. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio www.sharkattack.co.uk -- Original message: Received from Matthias Schmidt on 22/3/06 at 04:18 But the GUI would be broken, if we'd get folders in the Filters-window and then those filters wouldn't work hierarchically.
Re: RMW in browser
Mikael Byström wrote: One blatant error in your suggestion is that it requires that the 'smart' in your smart folders is more or less perfect. Are you sure you would like to rely on the current search technology with its limitations for organizing your messages? You know of the limitations, right? It seems at least I don't, because I envision smart folders the solution to several issues I have now (like a persistent RMW across launches, the same message filed in different folders at the same time like for the specific person and the folder of the project we're working on, or a folder today's mail containing both incoming an outgoing messages of today, e.g.). It's a shift in paradigms, granted, but it is simpler for my understanding: Whereas now, a central, huge list of filters distributes messages into a list of seperately, manually managed list of folders, with smart folders, a folder itself has the info attached what it should contain, i.e. each folder grabs instead of a central distributes. Or, whereas now, if I want to see which kind of messages wind up in a certain folder, I do have to wade through dozens of filter rules, checking which ones (!) have a move to this folder action, and check its conditions, with Smart Folders I'd click on the folder I'm interested in and would be presented immediately with only the rules that actually fill this specific folder. Why wouldn't this work with the current search technology? What is the vital limitation? I'd really like to know, since I don't see it at the moment. To make this fast is an implementation detail, IMO - of course messages would cache the info to which folder they belong, and this cache would only need to be updated when filter rules are edited or messages are created/received. We may probably need the global filter list also in a Smart Foldered PM for special cases where the filter is a trigger for some action only. But this list would become very small and manageable - at least for what I'm doing. Regards, Christian.
Re: RMW in browser
Marlyse Comte said: The Smart folders act somewhat like filters, so now I do not need to file into different folders and thus do not need the filter, I can view the mail within the Smart folders instead. This saves me 10 filters in the Filter window and thus the Filter window will be less cluttered for me. So what you're suggesting is to more to keep more messages in the in box, instead of sorting to the concrete folders with filters and instead use more smart folders, i e virtual folders. While I wouldn't call the Recent Messages Window a 'smart' folder, it is indeed a 'virtual' in the sense that it's not a concrete place where the contents are permanently stored. The reasons behind this being that you feel it would give less filters to handle? One blatant error in your suggestion is that it requires that the 'smart' in your smart folders is more or less perfect. Are you sure you would like to rely on the current search technology with its limitations for organizing your messages? You know of the limitations, right? PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: RMW in browser
Matthias Schmidt said: I understand that feature request of 'having everything in window' very well and I support it. Imho it doesn't mean breaking the GUI of PM. The approch everything in one Window is anyway supported by PM and was broken by the RMW. Say what? It was broken? What version was this when the RMW was introduced? You don't think that at the time, they wanted to make sure the placement of the recent messages clearly indicated it was something else than a folder view? And what do you mean by 'having everything in window'? What is 'everything'? You want Preferences, Mail accounts, Filters, clips, signatures and schedules there as well? What about search results? (That'd be smart folders actually). If you indeed didn't mean 'everything' then don't write that. I ask also you what the problems are that you think, that whatever it is you're actually supporting here would solve? PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re(3): RMW in browser
If there will be smart folders in PM, please make them able to be deleted. I don't want to have them in my folder list because I like that I do not have to scroll for a folder and all the space is used with my own folders. That means: Smart folder are OK for me, if I don't have to use them and can delete them. And I hope PM will not get slower or need much more MBs with these feature. -- http://www.subhash.at
Re: RMW in browser (smart folders and filters)
Thus Smart Folders are VERY much like using filters ... You say if I can assign these criteria to each folder instead within *the filter window*, this will leave me with less clutter in *the filter window*. Read that sentence again. Is it correct? If so, what did you actually mean? It's incomprehensible to me. Perhaps you could detail it a little? If I have a smart folder to identify certain messages that I used to filter into their own little sub-folders, I would certainly need fewer items all around. Suppose I have four clients under one corporate account. None of them generates messages frequently enough to deserve their own filters. Smart folders would reduce the number of filters I need in my filter list, plus if I close the account with that company, I can export them (archive out of my active message database) and not have to clean the cruft out my filters list afterwards. For example: folder: IBM Corporation with 4 subfolders: John Doe, Jane Jones, Bob Smith, Wendy Wilson. I can make filters to separate messages into their own folders. Four filters, four subfolders in one folder = nine items. Or, if I have just one filter putting all of these into the IBM folder, then four smart folders (a kind of active filter, I guess) which pick out just the messages for each individual person, then I have reduced the total items to six: one filter, one folder, four smart folders. I can pull a specific person's (smart folder) account to the top of my Folder List if it's getting more activity (I'm assuming user-resortable Folder Lists -- _CTM, see how useful this can be?_ :) ). Or, if there's a lull, I could drop that smart list back into the IBM folder like a subfolder (is it now called a smart sub-folder?). Assuming I have many corporate accounts, I could make a most active folder and pull all the busy smart sub-folders into it. Then I could delete them when done, or tuck them away in relevant containing folders as with the IBM example above. What I wouldn't be doing is having to clear out lots of filters from my filters list that have long passed on their usefulness because the messages they direct are no longer arriving, or even in the active database because they've been archived. I'm sure people with more e-mail than I could find better examples. Mikael, is that clear enough? Marlyse, is that what you were thinking for reducing clutter? Chris --
Re(2): RMW in browser
Mikael - I've never seen you like this, or I do not remember... but it is as if we are on different planets right now, trying to speak the same language but fail utterly. I do believe I've explained myself clearly in the past emails and so did Rick on this subject and thus I do not want to elaborate any more on this issue, except for the following to try and explain to you what exactly I mean when I say: Smart Folders = less clutter in the Filter Window : A - my current situation without Smart Folders - I have 10 folders and I have 15 filters 10 filter file incoming/outgoing mail into 10 different folders 5 filters do something else with my mail (e.g. spam eval etc.) B - possible future situation with Smart Folders - I have 10 Smart folders and I have 5 filters why so? The Smart folders act somewhat like filters, so now I do not need to file into different folders and thus do not need the filter, I can view the mail within the Smart folders instead. This saves me 10 filters in the Filter window and thus the Filter window will be less cluttered for me. Hope this is understandable to you. ---marlyse former message(s) quotes: - You say if I can assign these criteria to each folder instead within *the filter window*, this will leave me with less clutter in *the filter window*. Read that sentence again. Is it correct? If so, what did you actually mean? It's incomprehensible to me. Perhaps you could detail it a little?
Re: RMW in browser (was Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 Rebuilding Sort Indices)
Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the 'regular' folders. This is not necessarily a good solution, unless the different characteristics of a smart folder are clearly indicated. Smart folders should have a different color or icon, or both, like Apple's implementation. I wish the current folder list (and any possible new smart folder additions) were user-resortable. It is annoying to have to insert all sorts of odd characters to have the folders I use near the top where I can see them. Would this order be impossible to store somewhere in the PowerMail Exchange format (?). If I had regular folders and smart folders in one list, I would also want an additional icon in the menu bar to show/hide folders and one to show/ hide smart folders. If you don't like to see them, hide them. I don't think anyone who currently uses Apple's apps and wants to move to something more advanced would be thrown by the presence of smart folders in their folder list. Or, if the menu bar is not the place, the little bar at the top of the Folder List is wasted space (both separately and in the combined Mail Browser window). Put two icons there to show/hide regular and smart folders. Hey, we had the eyeball thing endlessly confusing people... this shouldn't be too painful. ;) The Recent Mail window as a smart folder would be able to open in its own window, like regular folders currently do. Just keep the special keyboard shortcut for it. (Tangential Feature Request: build in some option for keyboard shortcuts for user-defined folders like we have shortcuts for user-defined color of labels? Ten folder shortcuts. Mmmm...) (Tangent 2: I also would appreciate (at least a preference for) the RMW to remember its contents between program restarts.) I first would have thought to make the Recent Mail window to be a tabbed option in tandem with the Mail Browser section next to the Folder List, ala Adobe-app-palette-tabs-style, that you can pull apart or rejoin at will -- but the smart folder thing makes more sense, as has been stated. This is the exact reason I'd like to have the RMW integrated into the browser too. What reason would that be? What are the benefits of this arrangement? how would things work differently to be better than before? This have not been demonstrated. Three pane Mail Browser window = Folder List + 2-pane open Folder (whichever is selected in the list). Integrated RMW would replace that 2- pane section of an all-encompassing Folder view with the specific view of the RMW. Keep the Keyboard shortcut to switch between them. That way I can: 1. pull the Mail Browser window out of the way to access that open mail message underneath that I'm writing, or... 2. Windowshade _one_ window (the Mail Brower) out of view to do as #1 or to grab something off the Desktop _instead of having to windowshade two_ (Mail Browser, then the RMW). (I know, Expose yada yada yada, but Windowshade works, IMHO.) 3. I only have to align one window in my tiny iBook screen, not two. I have less chance of clicking between a palette and my document in InDesign or Photoshop and hitting a PowerMail window underneath bringing the whole kit and kaboodle to the front. 4. I tend to click on a slightly overlapping Mail Browser/RMW rather than Ctrl-Cmd-R, a key combo I find difficult to invoke for some reason (I'm right-handed?). It would be easier for me to click a folder in the Folder List than to click the RMW as I am already at the Folder List and the RMW overlaps to the right of my Mail Browser not the left (overlaps right so I can hit the title bar to select. Overlapping left means the close widget is what I'm clicking on, or a something _in_ the window, say a different message than I have selected, etc.) Chris --
Re: RMW in browser
Mikael, I understand that feature request of 'having everything in window' very well and I support it. Imho it doesn't mean breaking the GUI of PM. The approch everything in one Window is anyway supported by PM and was broken by the RMW. Smart Folders would be an alternative to bring the old GUI Approach back and make PM much more powerful. But the GUI would be broken, if we'd get folders in the Filters-window and then those filters wouldn't work hierarchically. So I'd like to see in an upcoming version of PM with smart folders and a much better (more stable) IMAP support. All the best Matthias --- Admilon Consulting GmbH http://www.admilon.com iChat/AIM: MatKoyasan Tel. +81-736-56-3905 --- Am/On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 04:17:37 +0100 schrieb/wrote Mikael Byström: Marlyse Comte said: First off, I realize that you are absolutely on the other side of our viewpoint and I will not try to convince you in any manner. There are no two sides in this issue. I don't take sides anyway. I think and reflect. Rick's posting made it clear why one window is - for us - way more appealing than having to deal constantly with 2 windows overlapping on the same screen. It most certainly didn't make anything clear on what problems were solved with his suggestion. See my reply to him. You say overlapping is the problem? So getting one window out of sight, limiting the view to one folder at a time is the solution? If it doesn't demonstrate to you or you don't have a problem with this, that's just as fine, this being what? If smart folders is the solution, what is the problem? One can usually forward the case by demonstrating *the problem* in a clear language. Again, what is the problem? Also, if you check out what Smart Folders ARE, you'll find that you will find all with the singer = XXX and such stuff which is just as good as using a filter telling to put all mails coming from XXX into so-and-so folder. That is all you can do with filters, is it? I both use them for and can think of so much more. Thus Smart Folders are VERY much like using filters Smart folders are not one fixed thing that always works the same way in the different contexts of different applications . They are programmable functions connected semantically to (usually) clickable objects in the graphical interface, that's all. You say if I can assign these criteria to each folder instead within *the filter window*, this will leave me with less clutter in *the filter window*. Read that sentence again. Is it correct? If so, what did you actually mean? It's incomprehensible to me. Perhaps you could detail it a little? You might need to try a bit and try not to be resistant to the idea itself, just try and look at it - this doesn't mean you need to agree with it either, but it might help you to understand where we are coming from - and It seems to me you're suggesting that something you call smart folders, unclear exactly what you mean by that, should replace not only the Recent Mail Window, but the somehow the filter window as well. It's also even more unclear what you think should be achieved by this or what issues you have with how it's working now. At the moment I'm not even sure I fully grasp what it is you're actually suggesting. Could you please elaborate in numbered points so an outsider can follow your thought here? What you say seem more wide in scope than what Rick said. as usual, having a preference setting which enables a user to turn something on or off is always useful in divided camps. No, in this case what you *seem to suggest* is a fundamental change in the GUI and with how things work. If that perception is true simple Preference changes won't cut it.
Re: RMW in browser
Marlyse Comte said: First off, I realize that you are absolutely on the other side of our viewpoint and I will not try to convince you in any manner. There are no two sides in this issue. I don't take sides anyway. I think and reflect. Rick's posting made it clear why one window is - for us - way more appealing than having to deal constantly with 2 windows overlapping on the same screen. It most certainly didn't make anything clear on what problems were solved with his suggestion. See my reply to him. You say overlapping is the problem? So getting one window out of sight, limiting the view to one folder at a time is the solution? If it doesn't demonstrate to you or you don't have a problem with this, that's just as fine, this being what? If smart folders is the solution, what is the problem? One can usually forward the case by demonstrating *the problem* in a clear language. Again, what is the problem? Also, if you check out what Smart Folders ARE, you'll find that you will find all with the singer = XXX and such stuff which is just as good as using a filter telling to put all mails coming from XXX into so-and-so folder. That is all you can do with filters, is it? I both use them for and can think of so much more. Thus Smart Folders are VERY much like using filters Smart folders are not one fixed thing that always works the same way in the different contexts of different applications . They are programmable functions connected semantically to (usually) clickable objects in the graphical interface, that's all. You say if I can assign these criteria to each folder instead within *the filter window*, this will leave me with less clutter in *the filter window*. Read that sentence again. Is it correct? If so, what did you actually mean? It's incomprehensible to me. Perhaps you could detail it a little? You might need to try a bit and try not to be resistant to the idea itself, just try and look at it - this doesn't mean you need to agree with it either, but it might help you to understand where we are coming from - and It seems to me you're suggesting that something you call smart folders, unclear exactly what you mean by that, should replace not only the Recent Mail Window, but the somehow the filter window as well. It's also even more unclear what you think should be achieved by this or what issues you have with how it's working now. At the moment I'm not even sure I fully grasp what it is you're actually suggesting. Could you please elaborate in numbered points so an outsider can follow your thought here? What you say seem more wide in scope than what Rick said. as usual, having a preference setting which enables a user to turn something on or off is always useful in divided camps. No, in this case what you *seem to suggest* is a fundamental change in the GUI and with how things work. If that perception is true simple Preference changes won't cut it.
Re(2): RMW in browser
Mikael - First off, I realize that you are absolutely on the other side of our viewpoint and I will not try to convince you in any manner. Rick's posting made it clear why one window is - for us - way more appealing than having to deal constantly with 2 windows overlapping on the same screen. If it doesn't demonstrate to you or you don't have a problem with this, that's just as fine, but there ARE people who have issue's with this. Also, if you check out what Smart Folders ARE, you'll find that you will find all with the singer = XXX and such stuff which is just as good as using a filter telling to put all mails coming from XXX into so-and-so folder. Thus Smart Folders are VERY much like using filters and if I can assign these criteria to each folder instead within the filter window, this will leave me with less clutter in the filter window. You might need to try a bit and try not to be resistant to the idea itself, just try and look at it - this doesn't mean you need to agree with it either, but it might help you to understand where we are coming from - and as usual, having a preference setting which enables a user to turn something on or off is always useful in divided camps. ---marlyse former message(s) quotes: - Marlyse Comte said: Nice posting. Thank you Rick! This is the exact reason I'd like to have the RMW integrated into the browser too. What reason would that be? What are the benefits of this arrangement? how would things work differently to be better than before? This have not been demonstrated. Did not think about Smart Folders up to now (except that the RMW is one by itself), I'd hardly think the RMW constitutes what users expect of smart folder á la iTunes and so on. but this would be a nice addition, it would keep the filters window a bit less cluttered. Now, just how would the filters window be less cluttered because smart folders was introduced? How does the filter window even enter into this at all? I'm not following.
Re: RMW in browser (was Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 Rebuilding Sort Indices)
Paul Collett said: a folder dedicated to all your recent mail that will still be there even if you shut down, plus a copy of the mail in it's home folder. Generally, I feel that because duplicate messages requires that all message attributes are kept synched to be truly useful, your solution is too limited. This would never work for me as I get too many messages. While your solution does sound cumbersome, superficial and lacking in many ways, it still could work for people with limited amount of messages. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
Re: RMW in browser (was Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 Rebuilding Sort Indices)
Yes. All one has to do is spend a few minutes in Mail and play around with the smart folders to see how unbelievably powerful they are. After all what is RMW but a smart window with the criteria of 'new message since last restart'. -- Andy Fragen On Tue, Mar 21, 2006, Rick Lecoat said: The ideal, for me, would be to have the ability to set up smart folders in the browser -- which would effectively do away with the need for the RMW. Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the 'regular' folders.
Re: RMW in browser (was Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 Rebuilding Sort Indices)
Mikael; I certainly agree that newcomers should be amply catered for; they are the lifeblood of any small developer. However, this is POWERmail... and having a greater degree of sophistication available for those who want it would seem to go along with the name, and cannot be a bad thing provided the GUI is sensibly and well implemented. I do agree that your argument about the message browser being for listing messages in *definite* locations has a certain logic to it. But I am not convinced that it outweighs (for me) the usability factor. By your argument there is no place in the browser for any sort of 'smart' folder (which would surely operate in the same way as the recent mail window, displaying messages from disparate locations according to specified criteria), and smart folders are something that I would love to see implemented in PM -- they would do away with many of my recurring gripes in one fell swoop. The problem for me is one of screen real estate. I want to have both the browser and recent mail windows showing at the same time because I'm always looking at one or the other, and because I want to have several columns showing in each, they inevitably overlap each other all the time. If I put both windows side by side, even without showing all of the columns that I want to refer to, they take up the whole width of my monitor -- and that's a 23 cinema display. Constantly having to bring one or the other to the foreground is a bit annoying, and to keep closing one and reopening it would be even more so. Really, though, I think that it comes down to the fact that I really want all my email activity to take place in one window, not two, just for visual neatness. I'm aware that that is a personal taste thing, but visual neatness is a hallmark of PM and this would not, IMO, be out of keeping with that. The ideal, for me, would be to have the ability to set up smart folders in the browser -- which would effectively do away with the need for the RMW. Off the top of my head, I would simply reserve a section of the folder list for Smart Folders, in between the In/Out Trays and the 'regular' folders. Rick -- G5 2GHz x2 :: 2GB RAM :: 10.4.5 :: PM 5.2.3 :: 3 pane mode Shark Attack: A Design Studio www.sharkattack.co.uk -- Original message: Received from Mikael Byström on 21/3/06 at 10:11 This doesn't make much sense actually. What's the gain? The Recent Mail window is one button press action away. It's an overview of what recent messages there are in in the browsers database. These are not part of the mail DB in that location. To not clearly put these somewhere else other than in the browser would be confusing for many, especially newcomers. CTM should design for newcomers, many newcomers. We need them.
RMW in browser (was Re: MacBook Pro, PM 5.2.3 Rebuilding Sort Indices)
Rick Lecoat [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: And the Recent Mail window integrated into the browser... This doesn't make much sense actually. What's the gain? The Recent Mail window is one button press action away. It's an overview of what recent messages there are in in the browsers database. These are not part of the mail DB in that location. To not clearly put these somewhere else other than in the browser would be confusing for many, especially newcomers. CTM should design for newcomers, many newcomers. We need them. Luckily, I think PowerMails interface, with few exceptions, is proof of that CTM is designing wisely without listening too much to user whims. Some parts do remain unforgiveable, like the search dialog giving the wrong expectations on the results possible and the mail filter window not being built to handle many filters in an elegant way. But these are separate issues and have been discussed on list already. PM 5.2.3 Swedish | OS X 10.3.9 | Powerbook G4/400Mhz | 1GB RAM | 30GB HD
