Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On 6/14/2011 2:55 AM, Thierry Nivelet wrote: Doing so, IMHO, is influenced by the 'serious dev' marketing, the same who consider loose typed and dynamic languages as second-class citizens. LOL! Reminds me of them bashing VFP for being Late-binding instead of good ol' VB6's early-binding. -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df923c0.7000...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Very interesting article indeed and, it seems, reasonably independent. Amazing to me is the belief, expressed in the article and this thread, that HTML/JS would be a 'mere' solution compared to thick client. HTML5/CSS/JS offer exactly the same graphic look and feel as silverlight, flash and co. It'll take another six month and a couple of browser versions to obtain the same performance, but all the necessary bits (rotation, opacity, audio, video, ...) are part of the spec, just entered in the final run for 'ratification'. Despite what the article misstates, JS is: - fully object oriented (which makes it a little confusing initially for VFP devs like us) - very much fun to work with, the Browser being both the target platform AND the IDE, just like in VFP; you write a piece of code, copy paste into Firebug's command window, run it, set break points, watch variables and so on. OK, JS holds new concepts you need to get familiar with: closures, context, variable scope, global object, anonymous function, self executing function, etc. (though a framework like Prototype leverages most of them). Also HTML DOM has its peculiarities like event handling, CSS declaration/scripting, tags and attributes, etc., (while many of the concepts we learned from VFP can be recycled there). I saw many VERY clever guys in the JS world - particularly among the JS framework dev teams - very rigorous, method-oriented (naming and code styling conventions, ...) - able of writing very clearly, in a dozen lines of code, what you thought should have required a hundred. Last but not least, HTML/CSS/JS is a VERY STABLE environment, in 10 years I absolutely never saw 'unexplainable' errors or bugs, except with ... Internet Explorer before I seriously used the Prototype framework. So, frankly, I see absolutely no serious reason to overlook and/or underrate HTML/CSS/JS dev. Doing so, IMHO, is influenced by the 'serious dev' marketing, the same who consider loose typed and dynamic languages as second-class citizens. Thierry Nivelet http://foxincloud.com/ Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud Le 13 juin 2011 à 21:03, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm a écrit : Here's a good article on the whole HTML5/JS versus Silverlight debacle: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/9133fca9-d8f6-4da3-a10d-6172012c0...@foxincloud.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:09 AM, Ed Leafe e...@leafe.com wrote: What happened to fool me once, shame on you; ... ___ Replaced by 'once bitten, twice shy ' ? A+ jml --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/BANLkTinn4WuU5Uw=nor3xjgcqxrhng-...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:55 +0200, Thierry Nivelet tnive...@foxincloud.com wrote: It'll take another six month and a couple of browser versions to obtain the same performance, but all the necessary bits (rotation, opacity, audio, video, ...) are part of the spec, just entered in the final run for 'ratification'. I thought it was about 4 years out from ratification? -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1308050211.23444.1462948...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:09 -0400, Ed Leafe e...@leafe.com wrote: What happened to fool me once, shame on you; ... Sure, but it's not like it never happens with other tools and platforms, and it's not like Microsoft doesn't usually end up producing excellent tools and languages. People don't just use Visual Studio and the rest because they *have* to. They could all use SharpDevelop or Eclipse to develop in C#. But this sort of uncertainty would drive anyone nuts. Just decide what the hell you're doing guys, and then do it! -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1308050380.23996.1462948...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0162.html ... even announced in VisualStudio Magazine ;) http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2011/06/02/wnews_html-5-last-call.aspx Le 14/06/11 13:16, Alan Bourke a écrit : On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:55 +0200, Thierry Nivelet tnive...@foxincloud.com wrote: It'll take another six month and a couple of browser versions to obtain the same performance, but all the necessary bits (rotation, opacity, audio, video, ...) are part of the spec, just entered in the final run for 'ratification'. I thought it was about 4 years out from ratification? ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df74401.10...@zenbuyer.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
another interesting thing is that http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0162.html is signed by Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada Le 14/06/11 13:20, Thierry Nivelet a écrit : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0162.html ... even announced in VisualStudio Magazine ;) http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2011/06/02/wnews_html-5-last-call.aspx Le 14/06/11 13:16, Alan Bourke a écrit : On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:55 +0200, Thierry Nivelet tnive...@foxincloud.com wrote: It'll take another six month and a couple of browser versions to obtain the same performance, but all the necessary bits (rotation, opacity, audio, video, ...) are part of the spec, just entered in the final run for 'ratification'. I thought it was about 4 years out from ratification? [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df74534.6040...@zenbuyer.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:20 +0200, Thierry Nivelet t...@zenbuyer.com wrote: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011May/0162.html ... even announced in VisualStudio Magazine ;) oops, well in that case I stand corrected! -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1308052861.6240.1462962...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 7:51 PM, John Harvey john.har...@shelbynet.com wrote: I think they are more sinister than just reactionary. They embrace, absorb/assimilate and overcome. Usually by their 2rd iteration they have it down to a usable product and because of the size of their crowd, they become the market. That doesn't really bother me, it's just all the turbulence that they and other vendors bring. I see M$ as reactionary in the dev industry today. They are a minor aspect in the majority shareholders section. They are bringing in new styles of how to work as well as roll with outside influences like jQuery, HTML5, Looks like every six months there is a new thing within the information presentation space and sometimes it stands out as the next great thing other times it fails. Every company has to these waves of new and great or new and a firecracker. I am happy that M$ will embrace the values that HTML5 brings to the table instead of force me to do everything in Silverlight. currently not doing either :( -- Stephen Russell Unified Health Services 60 Germantown Court Suite 220 Cordova, TN 38018 Telephone: 888.510.2667 901.246-0159 cell ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/banlktinjjixv1fhja36_vux5vlkmk4r...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
I think they are more sinister than just reactionary. They embrace, absorb/assimilate and overcome. Usually by their 2rd iteration they have it down to a usable product and because of the size of their crowd, they become the market. That doesn't really bother me, it's just all the turbulence that they and other vendors bring. You are generous with your 2nd iteration. I always feel it takes Microsoft three tries to get things right. As for the turbulence you mention, it not only affects the other vendors (sometimes positive, sometimes negative), but it is putting consulting and IT shops in a bad position, and in the case of more than a few, out of business. I have seen several consulting companies buy in 100% to some strategy and watched Microsoft throw it away. In the process the consulting company goes through bankruptcy because of the investment. Sad as this might be, this is something I believe the heads in Redmond never consider and do not care about. On the flip side, the people in the trenches at Microsoft who have formed the relationships with the community do care. Two sides of the beast. This is one reason I refuse to allow my company to be focused on only one customer, and why I refuse to invest into one future technology from one vendor. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/004801cc29f3$d67a6900$836f3b00$@whitelightcomputing.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Here's a good article on the whole HTML5/JS versus Silverlight debacle: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1307991784.1971.1462693...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Alan Bourke alanpbou...@fastmail.fm wrote: Here's a good article on the whole HTML5/JS versus Silverlight debacle: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars - I never let a tiny demo like that overshadow the true direction of other products the same vendor is doing this early out in the preview stage. -- Stephen Russell Unified Health Services 60 Germantown Court Suite 220 Cordova, TN 38018 Telephone: 888.510.2667 901.246-0159 cell ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/banlktikqa4czp1_gvtesksfuv5kfeoj...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On 6/13/2011 3:08 PM, Stephen Russell wrote: On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:03 PM, Alan Bourkealanpbou...@fastmail.fm wrote: Here's a good article on the whole HTML5/JS versus Silverlight debacle: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars - I never let a tiny demo like that overshadow the true direction of other products the same vendor is doing this early out in the preview stage. but you clearly understand why it makes developers cringe and people like Ed, Paul, Ted, and many others say You're not surprised, are you? See, I told you so! Break away from that nasty cycle! g ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df66ea3.5060...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Mon, 13 Jun 2011 16:10 -0400, MB Software Solutions,LLC mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote: but you clearly understand why it makes developers cringe and people like Ed, Paul, Ted, and many others say You're not surprised, are you? See, I told you so! Break away from that nasty cycle! g Well, we'll know more after this 'Build' event in September. And it's not like this sort of thing never happens outside the MS sphere either - look at Java and Open Office. Yes I know the advantage of Open Office, say, is that Joe Soap can fork it and start their own version but it still causes turbulence. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1307996888.1789.1462724...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Actually I was trying to say 3rd which is why it said 2rd... As for the rest of your statement, I agree totally. I try to learn a little of everything I can so if need be, I can switch to whatever fits best. John -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Rick Schummer Sent: Monday, June 13, 2011 1:01 PM To: profox@leafe.com Subject: RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript I think they are more sinister than just reactionary. They embrace, absorb/assimilate and overcome. Usually by their 2rd iteration they have it down to a usable product and because of the size of their crowd, they become the market. That doesn't really bother me, it's just all the turbulence that they and other vendors bring. You are generous with your 2nd iteration. I always feel it takes Microsoft three tries to get things right. As for the turbulence you mention, it not only affects the other vendors (sometimes positive, sometimes negative), but it is putting consulting and IT shops in a bad position, and in the case of more than a few, out of business. I have seen several consulting companies buy in 100% to some strategy and watched Microsoft throw it away. In the process the consulting company goes through bankruptcy because of the investment. Sad as this might be, this is something I believe the heads in Redmond never consider and do not care about. On the flip side, the people in the trenches at Microsoft who have formed the relationships with the community do care. Two sides of the beast. This is one reason I refuse to allow my company to be focused on only one customer, and why I refuse to invest into one future technology from one vendor. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/05d601cc2a0b$2ee554d0$8caffe70$@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
snipped This is one reason I refuse to allow my company to be focused on only one customer, and why I refuse to invest into one future technology from one vendor. More panic on the forums from Silverlight and WPF developers: http://forums.silverlight.net/forums/t/230502.aspx -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df67ee7.2060...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
More panic on the forums from Silverlight and WPF developers: Most developers hit the state of panic last year when Microsoft had no Silverlight at PDC. Strange that it popped up all over again, which is why I believe this is intentional. This story has all sorts of history repeating itself. g Different year, different tool/platform. Humorous if people's livelihood were not at stake. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/003001cc2a11$f7304c50$e590e4f0$@whitelightcomputing.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On 6/13/2011 5:36 PM, Rick Schummer wrote: More panic on the forums from Silverlight and WPF developers: Most developers hit the state of panic last year when Microsoft had no Silverlight at PDC. Strange that it popped up all over again, which is why I believe this is intentional. This story has all sorts of history repeating itself.g Different year, different tool/platform. Humorous if people's livelihood were not at stake. Boy, you said it...that's why it incenses people so. -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df68404.4040...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Jun 13, 2011, at 5:41 PM, MB Software Solutions, LLC wrote: Different year, different tool/platform. Humorous if people's livelihood were not at stake. Boy, you said it...that's why it incenses people so. What happened to fool me once, shame on you; ... Or perhaps Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it -- Ed Leafe ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/8eaf2737-3127-4e11-a927-ebdd7732f...@leafe.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On 6/13/2011 6:09 PM, Ed Leafe wrote: On Jun 13, 2011, at 5:41 PM, MB Software Solutions, LLC wrote: Different year, different tool/platform. Humorous if people's livelihood were not at stake. Boy, you said it...that's why it incenses people so. What happened to fool me once, shame on you; ... Or perhaps Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it Yep! You are a learn-ed man! g ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df69e1e.5070...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On 6/11/2011 4:37 PM, John Harvey wrote: I just get tired of flavor of the day, and these vendors keep pushing things, then changing it, killing backwards compatibility, or never implementing it, etc. I'm sure you can identify with that. It would be nice to have a clear path, but then it wouldn't be so interesting, would it How many (MANY!) things could this be said about in the computer/technology industry! -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df45cc6.8070...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Well, I think Javascript can't be thought of as a mere scripting language any more, in fact the way Microsoft are going you might see HTMl5 and Javascript being brought forward and Silverlight etc quietly getting shoved aside. On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 02:29 -0400, MB Software Solutions,LLC mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote: On 6/11/2011 4:37 PM, John Harvey wrote: I just get tired of flavor of the day, and these vendors keep pushing things, then changing it, killing backwards compatibility, or never implementing it, etc. I'm sure you can identify with that. It would be nice to have a clear path, but then it wouldn't be so interesting, would it How many (MANY!) things could this be said about in the computer/technology industry! -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1307873919.11729.1462217...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On 6/12/2011 6:18 AM, Alan Bourke wrote: Well, I think Javascript can't be thought of as a mere scripting language any more, in fact the way Microsoft are going you might see HTMl5 and Javascript being brought forward and Silverlight etc quietly getting shoved aside. Oh don't say that. To me, Silverlight is very young/new yet so to have it shoved aside seems like that would completely justify what John is saying. -- Mike Babcock, MCP MB Software Solutions, LLC President, Chief Software Architect http://mbsoftwaresolutions.com http://fabmate.com http://twitter.com/mbabcock16 ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/4df4c561.4050...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 09:55 -0400, MB Software Solutions,LLC mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com wrote: Oh don't say that. To me, Silverlight is very young/new yet so to have it shoved aside seems like that would completely justify what John is saying. Well, it won't disappear overnight but there is general unease out there as to just what Microsoft's direction going forward will be, and to a lot of people it looks like HTML5 and Javascript. See here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/04/14/silverlight_kinect_armchair/ You might see Silverlight being aimed at the phone and table UI. -- Alan Bourke alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1307890104.14676.1462267...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Well, I think Javascript can't be thought of as a mere scripting language any more, in fact the way Microsoft are going you might see HTMl5 and Javascript being brought forward and Silverlight etc quietly getting shoved aside. The Microsoft message on HTML5/Javascript vs. Silverlight is more confusing than anything I have seen come out of Microsoft's Developer Division in the last decade. I also believe this is purposely being done as well, and not a right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. What Microsoft does not get though is this approach is driving developers away. Without developers their platforms are doomed. Most people understand the key is to learn from mistakes. Unfortunately, Microsoft seems to be focused on repeating them. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/003901cc2925$994ef880$cbece980$@whitelightcomputing.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Silverlight is a me-too product coming 10 years after its predecessor - Flash/Flex/etc. - based on a triple belief: - 95% use Windows, and will increase, - 95% use Internet Explorer, and will increase, - HTML will never catch up with proprietary software for RIA All these three beliefs came out wrong. And a fourth event came in : smartphones and tablets. I agree with Rick: if ever m$ had a strategy during the past 10 years, it went out all wrong. Thierry Nivelet +33 6 08 82 44 63 Le 12 juin 2011 à 19:24, Rick Schummer pro...@whitelightcomputing.com a écrit : Well, I think Javascript can't be thought of as a mere scripting language any more, in fact the way Microsoft are going you might see HTMl5 and Javascript being brought forward and Silverlight etc quietly getting shoved aside. The Microsoft message on HTML5/Javascript vs. Silverlight is more confusing than anything I have seen come out of Microsoft's Developer Division in the last decade. I also believe this is purposely being done as well, and not a right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. What Microsoft does not get though is this approach is driving developers away. Without developers their platforms are doomed. Most people understand the key is to learn from mistakes. Unfortunately, Microsoft seems to be focused on repeating them. Rick White Light Computing, Inc. www.whitelightcomputing.com www.swfox.net www.rickschummer.com [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/b18bcc0d-c074-4f4e-b67f-dd2d09784...@foxincloud.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Rick Schummer pro...@whitelightcomputing.com wrote: Well, I think Javascript can't be thought of as a mere scripting language any more, in fact the way I think mere is not an appropriate adjective to use with scripting languages. Except for a few high-level languages that _have_to_ be compiled to native code, the world runs on scripting languages. The Microsoft message on HTML5/Javascript vs. Silverlight is more confusing than anything I have seen come out of Microsoft's Developer Division in the last decade. I also believe this is purposely being done as well, and not a right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. I think you're exactly right, and this is a key Microsoft strategy: throw it on the wall and see what sticks. Visual J++, FrontPage, Expression, Office, Access, Microsoft Bob. Some worked, some flopped. Microsoft tossed out DotNet (1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, etc.) and thrashed through Dynamic Languages, lots of different metaphors, several languages (Iron Python, anyone?), changed strategic directions as they got feedback, evaluated competitors, got criticism. Microsoft doesn't provide a strategy, a vision, nor a roadmap. They throw out me, too products and see if they sell. If so, they improve and modify based on feedback. MS is reactionary, not revolutionary. And not an industry leader. -- Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/BANLkTinkkrLHsG01EXkAbpJ467XsDury=a...@mail.gmail.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
I think they are more sinister than just reactionary. They embrace, absorb/assimilate and overcome. Usually by their 2rd iteration they have it down to a usable product and because of the size of their crowd, they become the market. That doesn't really bother me, it's just all the turbulence that they and other vendors bring. John -Original Message- From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ted Roche Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2011 5:00 PM To: profox@leafe.com Subject: Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 1:24 PM, Rick Schummer pro...@whitelightcomputing.com wrote: Well, I think Javascript can't be thought of as a mere scripting language any more, in fact the way I think mere is not an appropriate adjective to use with scripting languages. Except for a few high-level languages that _have_to_ be compiled to native code, the world runs on scripting languages. The Microsoft message on HTML5/Javascript vs. Silverlight is more confusing than anything I have seen come out of Microsoft's Developer Division in the last decade. I also believe this is purposely being done as well, and not a right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. I think you're exactly right, and this is a key Microsoft strategy: throw it on the wall and see what sticks. Visual J++, FrontPage, Expression, Office, Access, Microsoft Bob. Some worked, some flopped. Microsoft tossed out DotNet (1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, etc.) and thrashed through Dynamic Languages, lots of different metaphors, several languages (Iron Python, anyone?), changed strategic directions as they got feedback, evaluated competitors, got criticism. Microsoft doesn't provide a strategy, a vision, nor a roadmap. They throw out me, too products and see if they sell. If so, they improve and modify based on feedback. MS is reactionary, not revolutionary. And not an industry leader. -- Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/03da01cc2964$06904b90$13b0e2b0$@shelbynet.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
Hi all
Took an in-depth look at the site sample code.
Coding extensively in JavaScript with the Prototype framework, I saw nothing
very new and/or disruptive in Coffee script.
They seem to ignore javascript's automatic coercion feature when they write:
if (typeof elvis !== undefined elvis !== null) {
alert(I knew it!);
}
As JS coerce both undefined and null to false, you can simply write
if (elvis) alert(I knew it!);
Also because you don't need '{}' when 'if' deals with a single instruction.
If you work on web dev, coding in JavaScript gives you access to the FANTASTIC
Firebug tool (Firefox extension by the facebook team) and its VFP-like IDE:
command window, debugger, coverage profiler and more.
I strongly recommend taking a look at Prototype to ease JS dev.; it's quite
different from other JS frameworks like jquery as it not only extends HTML DOM
model, but the JS language itself.
Regarding arrays and more generically enumerable collections, Prototype offers
a bunch of convenient methods such as each(), map(), detect(), invoke(), and
many more. And of course you can chain calls as every method returns the
element it works on:
[1,2,3].each().detect().map().etc.
If anyone needs guidance or advice on JavaScript and/ HTML DOM dev., I'd be
happy to help.
Thierry Nivelet
+33 6 08 82 44 63
Le 11 juin 2011 à 19:28, Malcolm Greene pro...@bdurham.com a écrit :
Passing on a recommendation from the Python mailing list to take
a look at CoffeeScript
[1]http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
This is a high level language that compiles to portable
Javascript. CoffeeScript's syntax is similar to Python and Ruby.
I have no hands-on experience with this tool, but after my
initial reading of the website, I'm very impressed.
Have any of you come across this language before?
Regards,
Malcolm
References
1. http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
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RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
This is just what we need . . . another scripting language. I think anyone who
comes up with a NEW scripting language should be shot!
John
-Original Message-
From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
Thierry Nivelet
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 1:17 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in
Javascript
Hi all
Took an in-depth look at the site sample code.
Coding extensively in JavaScript with the Prototype framework, I saw nothing
very new and/or disruptive in Coffee script.
They seem to ignore javascript's automatic coercion feature when they write:
if (typeof elvis !== undefined elvis !== null) {
alert(I knew it!);
}
As JS coerce both undefined and null to false, you can simply write if (elvis)
alert(I knew it!); Also because you don't need '{}' when 'if' deals with a
single instruction.
If you work on web dev, coding in JavaScript gives you access to the FANTASTIC
Firebug tool (Firefox extension by the facebook team) and its VFP-like IDE:
command window, debugger, coverage profiler and more.
I strongly recommend taking a look at Prototype to ease JS dev.; it's quite
different from other JS frameworks like jquery as it not only extends HTML DOM
model, but the JS language itself.
Regarding arrays and more generically enumerable collections, Prototype offers
a bunch of convenient methods such as each(), map(), detect(), invoke(), and
many more. And of course you can chain calls as every method returns the
element it works on:
[1,2,3].each().detect().map().etc.
If anyone needs guidance or advice on JavaScript and/ HTML DOM dev., I'd be
happy to help.
Thierry Nivelet
+33 6 08 82 44 63
Le 11 juin 2011 à 19:28, Malcolm Greene pro...@bdurham.com a écrit :
Passing on a recommendation from the Python mailing list to take a
look at CoffeeScript [1]http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
This is a high level language that compiles to portable Javascript.
CoffeeScript's syntax is similar to Python and Ruby.
I have no hands-on experience with this tool, but after my initial
reading of the website, I'm very impressed.
Have any of you come across this language before?
Regards,
Malcolm
References
1. http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
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to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
What don't you like in scripting languages ?
Thierry Nivelet
+33 6 08 82 44 63
Le 11 juin 2011 à 20:54, John Harvey john.har...@shelbynet.com a écrit :
This is just what we need . . . another scripting language. I think anyone
who comes up with a NEW scripting language should be shot!
John
-Original Message-
From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
Thierry Nivelet
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 1:17 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in
Javascript
Hi all
Took an in-depth look at the site sample code.
Coding extensively in JavaScript with the Prototype framework, I saw nothing
very new and/or disruptive in Coffee script.
They seem to ignore javascript's automatic coercion feature when they write:
if (typeof elvis !== undefined elvis !== null) {
alert(I knew it!);
}
As JS coerce both undefined and null to false, you can simply write if
(elvis) alert(I knew it!); Also because you don't need '{}' when 'if' deals
with a single instruction.
If you work on web dev, coding in JavaScript gives you access to the
FANTASTIC Firebug tool (Firefox extension by the facebook team) and its
VFP-like IDE: command window, debugger, coverage profiler and more.
I strongly recommend taking a look at Prototype to ease JS dev.; it's quite
different from other JS frameworks like jquery as it not only extends HTML
DOM model, but the JS language itself.
Regarding arrays and more generically enumerable collections, Prototype
offers a bunch of convenient methods such as each(), map(), detect(),
invoke(), and many more. And of course you can chain calls as every method
returns the element it works on:
[1,2,3].each().detect().map().etc.
If anyone needs guidance or advice on JavaScript and/ HTML DOM dev., I'd be
happy to help.
Thierry Nivelet
+33 6 08 82 44 63
Le 11 juin 2011 à 19:28, Malcolm Greene pro...@bdurham.com a écrit :
Passing on a recommendation from the Python mailing list to take a
look at CoffeeScript [1]http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
This is a high level language that compiles to portable Javascript.
CoffeeScript's syntax is similar to Python and Ruby.
I have no hands-on experience with this tool, but after my initial
reading of the website, I'm very impressed.
Have any of you come across this language before?
Regards,
Malcolm
References
1. http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
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to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
I've seen it in relation to it's use to generate Javascript for use with Appcelerator Titanium cross-platform mobile development toolkit. So it would be Coffeescript to Javascript and then to Java or Objective-C, depending on Android or iPhone, then into whatever low-level format they compile it to. On Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:28 -0400, Malcolm Greene pro...@bdurham.com wrote: Passing on a recommendation from the Python mailing list to take a look at CoffeeScript [1]http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/ This is a high level language that compiles to portable Javascript. CoffeeScript's syntax is similar to Python and Ruby. I have no hands-on experience with this tool, but after my initial reading of the website, I'm very impressed. Have any of you come across this language before? Regards, Malcolm References 1. http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/ --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- [excessive quoting removed by server] ___ Post Messages to: ProFox@leafe.com Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/1307820594.3303.1462085...@webmail.messagingengine.com ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
RE: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in Javascript
I just get tired of flavor of the day, and these vendors keep pushing things,
then changing it, killing backwards compatibility, or never implementing it,
etc. I'm sure you can identify with that.
It would be nice to have a clear path, but then it wouldn't be so
interesting, would it
John
-Original Message-
From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
Thierry Nivelet
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 2:07 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to programming in
Javascript
What don't you like in scripting languages ?
Thierry Nivelet
+33 6 08 82 44 63
Le 11 juin 2011 à 20:54, John Harvey john.har...@shelbynet.com a écrit :
This is just what we need . . . another scripting language. I think anyone
who comes up with a NEW scripting language should be shot!
John
-Original Message-
From: profox-boun...@leafe.com [mailto:profox-boun...@leafe.com] On
Behalf Of Thierry Nivelet
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 1:17 PM
To: profox@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] CoffeeScript as a high level alternative to
programming in Javascript
Hi all
Took an in-depth look at the site sample code.
Coding extensively in JavaScript with the Prototype framework, I saw nothing
very new and/or disruptive in Coffee script.
They seem to ignore javascript's automatic coercion feature when they write:
if (typeof elvis !== undefined elvis !== null) { alert(I knew
it!); } As JS coerce both undefined and null to false, you can simply
write if (elvis) alert(I knew it!); Also because you don't need '{}' when
'if' deals with a single instruction.
If you work on web dev, coding in JavaScript gives you access to the
FANTASTIC Firebug tool (Firefox extension by the facebook team) and its
VFP-like IDE: command window, debugger, coverage profiler and more.
I strongly recommend taking a look at Prototype to ease JS dev.; it's quite
different from other JS frameworks like jquery as it not only extends HTML
DOM model, but the JS language itself.
Regarding arrays and more generically enumerable collections, Prototype
offers a bunch of convenient methods such as each(), map(), detect(),
invoke(), and many more. And of course you can chain calls as every method
returns the element it works on:
[1,2,3].each().detect().map().etc.
If anyone needs guidance or advice on JavaScript and/ HTML DOM dev., I'd be
happy to help.
Thierry Nivelet
+33 6 08 82 44 63
Le 11 juin 2011 à 19:28, Malcolm Greene pro...@bdurham.com a écrit :
Passing on a recommendation from the Python mailing list to take a
look at CoffeeScript [1]http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
This is a high level language that compiles to portable Javascript.
CoffeeScript's syntax is similar to Python and Ruby.
I have no hands-on experience with this tool, but after my initial
reading of the website, I'm very impressed.
Have any of you come across this language before?
Regards,
Malcolm
References
1. http://jashkenas.github.com/coffee-script/
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