Re: What would you build with a web of data? Decision support
Hi Georgi, First let me underline that the following is not a detached theory, it is very practical: The web of data can support the clinician in his cycle of decision: (a)The clinician makes measurements (in the broadest sense, also speaking with the patient and looking at a picture is a measurement). (b)The clinician focuses on those measurement results which are interesting for his therapeutic decisions (feature extraction). (c)The clinician compares these measurement results with experience. At this he may use rules or models which are derived from common experience. (d)The clinician decides for therapy, and measures the effect of his decision, i.e. the cycle starts again with (a). Good and large experience is very important for step (c). The cycle of decision (measurements - feature extraction - comparison with experience - decision) is also effective outside medicine: Before every conscious decision we *compare* decision relevant data with experience (or a model which is derived from common experience). Experience says, at *similar* situations possibility X yields better results than other possibilities, so we decide for possibility X. Even if we try to decide best, our decisions are suboptimal due to limited experience. The web of data can be designed in a way, that it collects experiences (also decision relevant measurements of machines) in a precise and *comparable* way (much more precise and better comparable than text). So the web of data can summarize experiences in well defined comparable way for decision support. For this a clear similarity relation is necessary. The natural way to do this is a vectorial description of resources, i.e. quantification of the resource's properties and regarding the result (a sequence of numbers) as vector. After defining an appropriate metric (distance function) we can calculate similarity of vectors by calculating the distance between them - the less the distance, the more similar are the vectors and (in case of good quantification) the original resources. Using HTTP URIs allows that all domain name owners can define these vectors and optimized distance functions. Therefore i suggest to introduce standardized Vectorial Resource Descriptors (VRDs) on the WEB - and it seems the best possibility to integrate these in Linked Data. The paper http://www.orthuber.com/wp1.pdf describes details. It is not completely up to date, and though the basal content of the VRDs (and Vector Space Descriptors - VSDs) is clear, I have not been sure about the syntax of the RDF examples (Chapters 2.2.2 and 2.2.3 currently) - and I would like to adapt the syntax to suggestions from the community. So comments and suggestions are very welcome! Best Wolfgang Georgi Kobilarov schrieb: Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com
RE: What would you build with a web of data?
Hi Bernard, From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:16 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? I have a few ideas, which eventually will certainly turn out to be completely wrong ... Please share them! That is what I hoped to accomplish with my - certainly overly bold - statement. that people start talking about what they think might have to change. In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. If you imply that it was my message, I think you got me wrong. No technologies will save the world. People will do, or will not. Tools might help, or not. I simply said that I would like to see applications based on linked data connecting problems to their solutions, or at least connecting people facing similar issues in similar contexts, which seems something both totally relevant and technically doable. After that, it's up to people to use them or not. Just unearthed an old post from a similar debate about topic maps back in 2001 which I could re-write today here ... http://www.petesbox.net/pipermail/topicmapmail/2001q3/002844.html Sorry, I didn't mean that as a reaction directly to your post, but to what I hear quite often. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Currently what I suggest is not possible mostly because relevant data are not necessarily present in the current data cloud. So, is it really just because the relevant data isn't present in the current data cloud? If the community just continues to publish more and more data to the cloud in the same way it's been happening in the last years, will we see applications appear some day? That is what I doubt. There is still a lot to tap out there. BTW people at wiserearth.org I have mentioned are clearly asking for help in integrating their data to the LOD cloud, because they don't have currently the task force to achieve that. And they definitely would want the kind of applications I mentioned. Not one day but today (or tomorrow morning). And not necessarily complex applications. I'd certainly be happy to help getting their data integrated with the cloud. Cheers, Georgi
RE: What would you build with a web of data?
Hi Yves, -Original Message- From: Yves Raimond [mailto:yves.raim...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 1:11 PM Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... Aw. Come on Georgi. How can you launch such a FUD after having seen a demo of the amazing Musicbore, really. http://vimeo.com/5561292 http://blog.dbtune.org/post/2009/07/13/Music-Hack-Day-and-the- MusicBore Okay, you got me, it is awesome! :-) But do you at all see the point I'm trying to make? I won't even bother mentioning other (potentially more useful) apps re- using/publishing Linked Data, as I am pretty sure you're entirely aware of their existence :-) And the BBC Wildlife Finder would get my vote as by far the best linked data site out there. Well, it's just an amazing site and users don't have to appreciate at all how it works in the background to find it amazing. But does it qualify as a pure LOD consuming site? Do people have enough trust in the data and link quality of todays LOD cloud to build a real application on top without a separate curation layer? I don't... Cheers, Georgi
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
On Monday 12 April 2010 16:14:56 Georgi Kobilarov wrote: [...] So after your work on SQUIN, what is your conclusion? Does the distributed querying approach work well enough that you can imagine a developer building an application/website using it? First of all, the query approach implemented by SQUIN and the underlying Semantic Web Client library (SWClLib) is very different from distributed query processing. I call this new approach link traversal based query execution. Re your question: building an application based on this query approach is very easy, in particular, if you use a tool like SQUIN that can be accessed as if it were a SPARQL endpoint. What might be a bit tricky for beginners is the development of the queries. We implemented two real LD based application using SQUIN: * http://researchersmap.informatik.hu-berlin.de/ * http://linkeddata.informatik.hu-berlin.de/altmed/ These applications, indeed, use Linked Data from multiple sources. An application for users who have no appreciation for the underlying technology at all and hence no tolerance for hickups cause by it? That's a different story. SQUIN and SWClLib are prototypes that don't work very efficiently and that still lack several features. Hence, I wouldn't recommend them for real applications that require UI-friendly response times, yet. However, the query approach in general, implemented with suitable caching mechanisms, can serve specific LD based applications quite well. Greetings, Olaf
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
+1 thanks Nathan for pointing this out, very very relevant. luckly so far it seems a bit too rooted in MS stack of things (just looking at it very very superficially) :-)? Gio ps: realistically there's the whole microsoft thing to keep in the back of our minds; they have pretty much a semi-proprietary full end to end of most of the above, from M through OData through Pivot via silverlight and seadragon - and realistically by 2011 this will be starting to take off in a big way; there is a chance linked data could miss the boat and become nothing more than legacy data which people transform in to odata then use on the (by then) well supported and rolled out tech stack. pps: google are pushing in this direction too, it won't be long before we get a big surprise from their end (gdata + openid + oauth + gmail/buzz-additions + chromium-os + chrome + android + comparatively unlimited resources and thousands of amazing developers + a huge developer community) regardless of what anybody says, these two companies will push there own versions of what we're doing out within the next 12-18 months, with full developer support. please do remember I'm a huge linked data fan have my interests firmly planted in linked data + read/write web - just aware of the realities at hand. regards!
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
I'm going to set aside the question of problems and consider *possibilities* for a moment. I think linked open data offers profound opportunities for community-driven applications; I'll use citizen science as a specific example. I was reminded of this as I listened to this week's episode of Material World, in which ...Quentin Cooper hears how records from two and a half centuries of nature-watching reveal the gradual advance of spring, and what this says about climate change... see http://bit.ly/ccFVFM Check out the applet at nature's calendar http://www.naturescalendar.org.uk/, based on user-contributed data, and imagine what is possible both in the citizen-driven science realm and across domains, into other areas. To me the magic of linked data will be revealed in the applications that are created in a matter of hours (if that!) upon hearing about a particular data source becoming available (bird sightings! flowers blooming! real-time bike race or marathon results! celebrity sightings! ) and published as linked data, thus allowing enthusiastic meshers and mashers to create and share applications which may become popular. To power this, I think we a class of platform that is accessible as blogs for non-technical enthusiasts to publish, mesh and mash. Such a platform need to be more that data hosts; they must also allow users to easily create shareable active behaviors that filter and otherwise transform data the way Yahoo! Pipes diddle with feeds and other sources --- think Google Desktop Gadgets for Linked Data. -- John S. Erickson, Ph.D. http://bitwacker.wordpress.com olyerick...@gmail.com Twitter: @olyerickson
What would you build with a web of data?
Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
Georgi you are mistaken. Links to resources or even simple things such as reusing labels are already saving me time and money when building apps for customers. in reality I get more than labels, I get maps, relations, etc which otherwise would have been costly to attain. Also, the exploration of datasets by jumping links is a great way to attain insights an ideas. Intranet-wise, linkeddata is a killer app and I have hard, front line evidence. On Apr 9, 2010, at 11:13, Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Bernard, well, why did I ask people to write about their ideas for apps? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Cheers, Georgi -Original Message- From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:25 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? Hi Georgi Copying below the comment I just posted on ReadWriteWeb. Looks like a rant, but could have been worse ... I could have added that if the Web of Data is used to find out more cute cats images, well, I wonder what I do on this boat. I'm amazed, not to say frightened, by the egocentrism and lack of imagination of the applications proposed so far. Will the Web of Data be an effective tool for tackling our planet critical issues, or just another toy for spoiled children of the Web? I would like to see the Web of Data enable people anywhere in the world to find out smart, sustainable and low-cost solutions to their local development issues. What are the success (or failure) stories in e.g., farming, water supply, energy, education, health etc. in environments similar to mine, anywhere in the world? Something along the lines of http://www.wiserearth.org (of which data, BTW would be great to have in the Linked Data cloud). Best Bernard 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_ build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com -- Bernard Vatant Senior Consultant Vocabulary Data Engineering Tel: +33 (0) 971 488 459 Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com Mondeca 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France Web:http://www.mondeca.com Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com
RE: What would you build with a web of data?
Hi Aldo, Georgi you are mistaken. Links to resources or even simple things such as reusing labels are already saving me time and money when building apps for customers. well, do we then really need all that sophisticated rdf data? If it comes down to reusing labels? in reality I get more than labels, I get maps, relations, etc which otherwise would have been costly to attain. Are you describing an application of linked open data, or just open data? Also, the exploration of datasets by jumping links is a great way to attain insights an ideas. Intranet-wise, linkeddata is a killer app and I have hard, front line evidence. Please, share your evidence... Cheers, Georgi On Apr 9, 2010, at 11:13, Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Bernard, well, why did I ask people to write about their ideas for apps? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Cheers, Georgi -Original Message- From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:25 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? Hi Georgi Copying below the comment I just posted on ReadWriteWeb. Looks like a rant, but could have been worse ... I could have added that if the Web of Data is used to find out more cute cats images, well, I wonder what I do on this boat. I'm amazed, not to say frightened, by the egocentrism and lack of imagination of the applications proposed so far. Will the Web of Data be an effective tool for tackling our planet critical issues, or just another toy for spoiled children of the Web? I would like to see the Web of Data enable people anywhere in the world to find out smart, sustainable and low-cost solutions to their local development issues. What are the success (or failure) stories in e.g., farming, water supply, energy, education, health etc. in environments similar to mine, anywhere in the world? Something along the lines of http://www.wiserearth.org (of which data, BTW would be great to have in the Linked Data cloud). Best Bernard 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_ build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com -- Bernard Vatant Senior Consultant Vocabulary Data Engineering Tel: +33 (0) 971 488 459 Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com Mondeca 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France Web:http://www.mondeca.com Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
Hi All, Good question. Here's a description of an app about energy independence www.reengineeringllc.com/EnergyIndependence1.pdf and here is the same thing as a video www.reengineeringllc.com/EnergyIndependence1Video.htm (Flash video with audio) You can also run the app itself, and get explanations of the results, at the same site. As you may see from the above presentations, there was some human effort in gathering and reformatting the data from various sources. So, perhaps this is a good challenge example, for folks to show how much easier writing the app could be over LOD? And of course to demonstrate ad hoc linking to extend the app. Here's a starter example for such an exercise: www.reengineeringllc.com/demo_agents/RDFQueryLangComparison1.agent Cheers, -- Adrian Internet Business Logic A Wiki and SOA Endpoint for Executable Open Vocabulary English over SQL and RDF Online at www.reengineeringllc.com Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements Adrian Walker Reengineering On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.dewrote: Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com
RE: What would you build with a web of data?
Hi Matthias, There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? I don't see why limiting applications to use only a selected subset of data sources equals not really using the linked data cloud. This is like saying you have not _really_ used Microsoft Word unless you use every possible font effect for each document you write. Okay, how about this analogy: would you say you read the Financial Times every day, if all you do is have a look at weather forecast on the last page? Limiting your application to certain, selected datasets seems to be the only 'no-nonsense' way of using data out there while still taking care of reliability, relevance and trust issues. What I'm saying is that Linked Open Data is links open data. If we aren't using both, what's the point in making all the effort? Don't get me wrong, I do believe in the potential of the Web of Data. But the question is: what has to happen to get us there? And part of that is to realize that we aren't there yet. I'd be happy to discuss what I think are the issue. But that's kind of pointless if the overall perception is that we already have the Web of Data, and just more people need to adopt it... Cheers, Georgi
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
Hi On Apr 9, 2010, at 11:45, Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Aldo, Georgi you are mistaken. Links to resources or even simple things such as reusing labels are already saving me time and money when building apps for customers. well, do we then really need all that sophisticated rdf data? If it comes down to reusing labels? 1. It is not complex! Rdf is very basic, least common denominator for a webby graph model 2. We need RDF or similar to cover diverse verticals. Anything less does not scale in reality I get more than labels, I get maps, relations, etc which otherwise would have been costly to attain. Are you describing an application of linked open data, or just open data? A linked data intranet. They used to have a combo box with countries. They now have a map an detail pages for each country in multiple languages integrated to the intranet. Same for other seconday entities All I did was owl:sameAs to dbpedia and virtuoso sponge Also, the exploration of datasets by jumping links is a great way to attain insights an ideas. Intranet-wise, linkeddata is a killer app and I have hard, front line evidence. Please, share your evidence... Will blog Cheers, Georgi On Apr 9, 2010, at 11:13, Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de wrote: Hi Bernard, well, why did I ask people to write about their ideas for apps? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Cheers, Georgi -Original Message- From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:25 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? Hi Georgi Copying below the comment I just posted on ReadWriteWeb. Looks like a rant, but could have been worse ... I could have added that if the Web of Data is used to find out more cute cats images, well, I wonder what I do on this boat. I'm amazed, not to say frightened, by the egocentrism and lack of imagination of the applications proposed so far. Will the Web of Data be an effective tool for tackling our planet critical issues, or just another toy for spoiled children of the Web? I would like to see the Web of Data enable people anywhere in the world to find out smart, sustainable and low-cost solutions to their local development issues. What are the success (or failure) stories in e.g., farming, water supply, energy, education, health etc. in environments similar to mine, anywhere in the world? Something along the lines of http://www.wiserearth.org (of which data, BTW would be great to have in the Linked Data cloud). Best Bernard 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_ build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com -- Bernard Vatant Senior Consultant Vocabulary Data Engineering Tel: +33 (0) 971 488 459 Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com Mondeca 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France Web:http://www.mondeca.com Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Hi Bernard, well, why did I ask people to write about their ideas for apps? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... Agree that there could be more apps, but I've seen a few that are useful. Linked Geo Data and Data WIki spring to mind. There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? I think limited support for sparql update means that linked data is largely read only. When sparql 1.1 comes out, hopefully that will change. In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Decentralization of data will become a growing theme. 5 years ago there were almost no blogs, but now blogs have changed the way we consume news. The newspaper industry has struggled to adapt to the decentralization of documents. The end user is probably better off for it. I think one big area could be ecommerce, or data driven commerce. Decentralizing transactions (i would again use a data wiki driven solution for this) within our current legal framework could facilitate better control of peoples finances and offer a boost to the economy. Countries like greece could benefit from a boost to their economy. In fact, all countries could. WIth any decentralization process there's going to be winners and losers, but again hopefully the end user will be better off in the long term. WIll this equate to saving the planet? Maybe, just maybe ... :) Cheers, Georgi -Original Message- From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:25 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? Hi Georgi Copying below the comment I just posted on ReadWriteWeb. Looks like a rant, but could have been worse ... I could have added that if the Web of Data is used to find out more cute cats images, well, I wonder what I do on this boat. I'm amazed, not to say frightened, by the egocentrism and lack of imagination of the applications proposed so far. Will the Web of Data be an effective tool for tackling our planet critical issues, or just another toy for spoiled children of the Web? I would like to see the Web of Data enable people anywhere in the world to find out smart, sustainable and low-cost solutions to their local development issues. What are the success (or failure) stories in e.g., farming, water supply, energy, education, health etc. in environments similar to mine, anywhere in the world? Something along the lines of http://www.wiserearth.org (of which data, BTW would be great to have in the Linked Data cloud). Best Bernard 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_ build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com -- Bernard Vatant Senior Consultant Vocabulary Data Engineering Tel: +33 (0) 971 488 459 Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com Mondeca 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France Web:http://www.mondeca.com Blog:http://mondeca.wordpress.com
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.dewrote: Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Lots of things: (1) A 'smart' encyclopedia that can reformat Wikipedia (and other content) for specific audiences/context. For instance, a children's encyclopedia, an encyclopedia about what people in Heian Japan could have plausibility known about, etc. (2) Systems that add 'Xanalogical' (sorry T. Nelson) structure to text based on text understanding. For instance, if I'm reading a text, I want something that can infer intertextuality and add 'footnotes' that clarify any issue that I want clarified. The text involved could be anything: tweets, cheat sheets for video games (how exactly can I get that item?), scientific papers, Shakespeare, even parallel texts. (I'd love to line up an English translation of the Kojiiki w/ the archaic original Japanese and have tools that let somebody who barely understands Japanese [me] get a lot out of it) (3) A site like boxedup.com without all the stupid web 2.0 features that never really worked... I want to be able to just bookmark an item and have the system extract good data about it... and NOT ask me to fill out tags. The book Pull makes a good case for how semantic technology enables ambient computing... I had a talk with an a MIT media lab graduate years ago who was fundamentally skeptical about the ability of computers to understand context and do the kind of things that a good butler does. Ultimately a big 'commonsense' knowledge base is going to make 'impossible' things happen. http://thepowerofpull.com/pull/
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
I'm surprised, not to say puzzled, to see e-commerce popping us so late in this conversation. I think the first useful application of linked data will be an answer to questions such as Where can I find a product with such and such properties at the cheapest price? and What should I do this weekend? The weekend answer will integrate data such as weather forecast, concert schedules, hotel prices, etc. And the Sparql parsing of the product question seems pretty easy, if the data is accessible. This being said, I agree with Bernard that this sort of questions are a bit futile. I just think the big questions will be dealt with a bit later. On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Melvin Carvalho melvincarva...@gmail.comwrote: 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Hi Bernard, well, why did I ask people to write about their ideas for apps? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... Agree that there could be more apps, but I've seen a few that are useful. Linked Geo Data and Data WIki spring to mind. There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? I think limited support for sparql update means that linked data is largely read only. When sparql 1.1 comes out, hopefully that will change. In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Decentralization of data will become a growing theme. 5 years ago there were almost no blogs, but now blogs have changed the way we consume news. The newspaper industry has struggled to adapt to the decentralization of documents. The end user is probably better off for it. I think one big area could be ecommerce, or data driven commerce. Decentralizing transactions (i would again use a data wiki driven solution for this) within our current legal framework could facilitate better control of peoples finances and offer a boost to the economy. Countries like greece could benefit from a boost to their economy. In fact, all countries could. WIth any decentralization process there's going to be winners and losers, but again hopefully the end user will be better off in the long term. WIll this equate to saving the planet? Maybe, just maybe ... :) Cheers, Georgi -Original Message- From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:25 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? Hi Georgi Copying below the comment I just posted on ReadWriteWeb. Looks like a rant, but could have been worse ... I could have added that if the Web of Data is used to find out more cute cats images, well, I wonder what I do on this boat. I'm amazed, not to say frightened, by the egocentrism and lack of imagination of the applications proposed so far. Will the Web of Data be an effective tool for tackling our planet critical issues, or just another toy for spoiled children of the Web? I would like to see the Web of Data enable people anywhere in the world to find out smart, sustainable and low-cost solutions to their local development issues. What are the success (or failure) stories in e.g., farming, water supply, energy, education, health etc. in environments similar to mine, anywhere in the world? Something along the lines of http://www.wiserearth.org (of which data, BTW would be great to have in the Linked Data cloud). Best Bernard 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/web_of_data_what_would_you_ build.php Let's be creative about stuff we'd build with the web of data. Assume the Linked Data Web would be there already, what would build? Cheers, Georgi -- Georgi Kobilarov Uberblic Labs Berlin http://blog.georgikobilarov.com -- Bernard Vatant Senior Consultant Vocabulary Data Engineering Tel: +33 (0) 971 488 459 Mail: bernard.vat...@mondeca.com Mondeca 3, cité Nollez 75018 Paris France Web:http
Re: What would you build with a web of data?
Francois, The problem is the lack of data. If there is not real time concert data plus weather forecast and hotel prices and availability, we can't create such a linked data application. I'm interested in seeing what people can create with the current linked open data PLUS other data. We need to show what can be done and what problems can be solved thanks to Linked Data... and which couldn't be solved, or with a lot of effort without non-semweb tech Juan Sequeda +1-575-SEQ-UEDA www.juansequeda.com 2010/4/9 François Dongier francois.dong...@gmail.com I'm surprised, not to say puzzled, to see e-commerce popping us so late in this conversation. I think the first useful application of linked data will be an answer to questions such as Where can I find a product with such and such properties at the cheapest price? and What should I do this weekend? The weekend answer will integrate data such as weather forecast, concert schedules, hotel prices, etc. And the Sparql parsing of the product question seems pretty easy, if the data is accessible. This being said, I agree with Bernard that this sort of questions are a bit futile. I just think the big questions will be dealt with a bit later. On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Melvin Carvalho melvincarva...@gmail.comwrote: 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Hi Bernard, well, why did I ask people to write about their ideas for apps? My observation is that there are zero real apps using linked open data (i.e. data from the cloud). Not even a single one. Null. After 3 years of linking open data... Agree that there could be more apps, but I've seen a few that are useful. Linked Geo Data and Data WIki spring to mind. There are applications that re-use identifiers, and there are applications that use single, hand-picked data sources. But let's be honest, that's not using the linked data cloud. So, why's that? There must be a reason. Which part of the ecosystem sucks? I think limited support for sparql update means that linked data is largely read only. When sparql 1.1 comes out, hopefully that will change. In my opinion we won't get to solve that question if we stick to linked data will save the planet, one day. But instead, figure out which apps people would want to build now, and then see why it's not possible. If it doesn't work on the small scale of some simple app, how will linked data ever save our planet? Decentralization of data will become a growing theme. 5 years ago there were almost no blogs, but now blogs have changed the way we consume news. The newspaper industry has struggled to adapt to the decentralization of documents. The end user is probably better off for it. I think one big area could be ecommerce, or data driven commerce. Decentralizing transactions (i would again use a data wiki driven solution for this) within our current legal framework could facilitate better control of peoples finances and offer a boost to the economy. Countries like greece could benefit from a boost to their economy. In fact, all countries could. WIth any decentralization process there's going to be winners and losers, but again hopefully the end user will be better off in the long term. WIll this equate to saving the planet? Maybe, just maybe ... :) Cheers, Georgi -Original Message- From: Bernard Vatant [mailto:bernard.vat...@mondeca.com] Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:25 PM To: Georgi Kobilarov Cc: public-lod Subject: Re: What would you build with a web of data? Hi Georgi Copying below the comment I just posted on ReadWriteWeb. Looks like a rant, but could have been worse ... I could have added that if the Web of Data is used to find out more cute cats images, well, I wonder what I do on this boat. I'm amazed, not to say frightened, by the egocentrism and lack of imagination of the applications proposed so far. Will the Web of Data be an effective tool for tackling our planet critical issues, or just another toy for spoiled children of the Web? I would like to see the Web of Data enable people anywhere in the world to find out smart, sustainable and low-cost solutions to their local development issues. What are the success (or failure) stories in e.g., farming, water supply, energy, education, health etc. in environments similar to mine, anywhere in the world? Something along the lines of http://www.wiserearth.org (of which data, BTW would be great to have in the Linked Data cloud). Best Bernard 2010/4/9 Georgi Kobilarov georgi.kobila...@gmx.de Yesterday issued a challenge on my blog for ideas for concrete linked open data applications. Because talking about concrete apps helps shaping the roadmap for the technical questions for the linked data community ahead. The real questions, not the theoretical ones... Richard MacManus of ReadWriteWeb picked up the challenge: http
