Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On Wed, 6 Jun 2018 at 02:09 Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2018-06-05, 15:03 GMT, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > I was actually looking into this recently to see if the > > repository import feature could be used to run a regularly > > updated repository mirror that included all issues and PR > > comments in addition to the code, > > Good, thank you very much. I didn’t, so I just worked out of the > PR materials and documentation on their side. I am glad somebody > did. > > > I'm more confident in my ability to predict Microsoft's > > business incentives based on the prevailing technology > > landscape than I am in my ability to predict the actions of > > a VC firm like Andreesen Horowitz :) > > Perhaps. I still would be more comfortable, if we were thinking > from time to time about alternatives in case Microsoft (or > somebody else) returns to The Bad Old Ways. I hope it won't > happen, but it might. > Backing up the git repo is not terribly troublesome because you just need to to it regularly by cron job. Plus since git is distributed we have copies of that repo all over the place and you can verify integrity through the commit hashes, so even without an official backup we have a ton of unofficial backups. :) As for the PR data, that could be done by recording every webhook event from our repo if someone wanted to. Then you could reconstruct things by essentially replaying the log of events. There are also probably more structured ways to do it as well if people cared. But the key thing is someone has to take the time and effort to set something up. I'm personally not planning to put in the effort since I think there's a massively bigger chance we will switch hosts again rather than GitHub deciding to shut off data access with no data export feature or lead time such that we have to craft our own solution and we can't do it fast enough to prevent the loss of data (and I don't think doing this ahead of time for an eventual migration is worth it either as any platform we move to might have its own migration support, etc.). IOW I ain't worried, but I think everyone assumed that for me. :) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 2018-06-05, 15:03 GMT, Nick Coghlan wrote: > I was actually looking into this recently to see if the > repository import feature could be used to run a regularly > updated repository mirror that included all issues and PR > comments in addition to the code, Good, thank you very much. I didn’t, so I just worked out of the PR materials and documentation on their side. I am glad somebody did. > I'm more confident in my ability to predict Microsoft's > business incentives based on the prevailing technology > landscape than I am in my ability to predict the actions of > a VC firm like Andreesen Horowitz :) Perhaps. I still would be more comfortable, if we were thinking from time to time about alternatives in case Microsoft (or somebody else) returns to The Bad Old Ways. I hope it won't happen, but it might. Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 May integrity and uprightness preserve me, for I wait for you. -- Psalm 25:21 ESV ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 5 June 2018 at 23:10, Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2018-06-04, 23:38 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else. > > > > In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping > > money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, > > compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get > > aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple". > > Let me just to say here, that gitlab.com has export of > repository together with all metadata. Just saying. > I was actually looking into this recently to see if the repository import feature could be used to run a regularly updated repository mirror that included all issues and PR comments in addition to the code, and noticed that one of the things that GitLab really requires to create a high quality export is for folks to have linked their GitLab instance accounts with their GitHub ones - if you don't already have that account mapping in place, then the import currently loses the ability to link users correctly with their comments and commits (We have a partial mapping due to folks adding their account names to bugs.python.org for CLA signing purposes, but not in a form that GitLab could actually use, since they need the API access authorisation). That said, I personally don't think this changes much about our relationship with GitHub, except for the fact that we're now dealing with a large publicly traded multinational with relatively transparent financial reports rather than a smallish privately held company that was only financially accountable to the venture capitalists backing it. I'm more confident in my ability to predict Microsoft's business incentives based on the prevailing technology landscape than I am in my ability to predict the actions of a VC firm like Andreesen Horowitz :) Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 5.6.2018 15:10, Matěj Cepl wrote: On 2018-06-04, 23:38 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote: No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else. In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple". Let me just to say here, that gitlab.com has export of repository together with all metadata. Just saying. GitHub has: https://developer.github.com/changes/2018-05-24-user-migration-api/ but I'm not sure what exactly is there. -- Miro Hrončok -- Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 2018-06-04, 23:38 GMT, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else. > > In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping > money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, > compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get > aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple". Let me just to say here, that gitlab.com has export of repository together with all metadata. Just saying. Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 Oh, to be young, and to feel love’s keen sting. -- Albus Dumbledore ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Something that may change is the way they treat Github accounts, after all, MS is very much a sales driven company. But then there's always the possibility to move to Gitlab as alternative (hosted or run on PSF VMs), so I would worry too much. Do note, however, that the value in Github is not so much with the products they have, but with the data. Their databases know more about IT developer than anyone else and given that Github is put under the AI umbrella in MS should tell us something :-) On 04.06.2018 19:02, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. > For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote > (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve > integrations with other CI services? > > Regards > > Antoine. > > > On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 > Guido van Rossum wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >>> >>> On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 >>> Victor Stinner wrote: At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything. >>> >>> It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to >>> worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about >>> moving issues to Github. >>> >> >> I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had >> remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it >> would make enough money to stay in business. >> > > ___ > Python-Dev mailing list > Python-Dev@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev > Unsubscribe: > https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/mal%40egenix.com > -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Experts (#1, Jun 05 2018) >>> Python Projects, Coaching and Consulting ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> Python Database Interfaces ... http://products.egenix.com/ >>> Plone/Zope Database Interfaces ... http://zope.egenix.com/ ::: We implement business ideas - efficiently in both time and costs ::: eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ http://www.malemburg.com/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On Mon, Jun 04, 2018 at 07:25:49PM +0200, Matěj Cepl wrote: > On 2018-06-04, 16:06 GMT, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if > > GitHub had remained independent there would have been be > > similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay > > in business. > > Beacuse Microsoft is known to keep a money loosing venture > around forever? No, but Guido is right: neither is anyone else. In that regard, Microsoft is probably *more* likely to keep pumping money into a failing business if it gives them a strategic advantage, compared to other investors with no long-term strategy other than "get aquired by Google/Microsoft/Oracle/Apple". But on the other hand, Microsoft (or at least the bad old Microsoft of Bill Gates' days) has a long history of "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" as policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish (Not that Microsoft is the only big tech company that does/did this.) Anyway, this is just all speculation at this point. In the short term, nothing changes, and it is too early to tell how it changes the long term. -- Steve ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 04.06.2018 21:46, Ethan Furman wrote: On 06/04/2018 10:49 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. We should have contingency plans and be prepared. More than one bought-out competitor has simply disappeared, or been hamstrung in its effectiveness. Actually, since M$ has closely integrated Python into VS, I'm expecting Guido to receive an acquisition offer next! -- ~Ethan~ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/vano%40mail.mipt.ru -- Regards, Ivan ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 2018-06-04, 16:06 GMT, Guido van Rossum wrote: > I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if > GitHub had remained independent there would have been be > similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay > in business. Beacuse Microsoft is known to keep a money loosing venture around forever? Best, Matěj -- https://matej.ceplovi.cz/blog/, Jabber: mc...@ceplovi.cz GPG Finger: 3C76 A027 CA45 AD70 98B5 BC1D 7920 5802 880B C9D8 To err is human, to purr feline. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Ethan Furman writes: > On 06/04/2018 10:49 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: > > > I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. > > We should have contingency plans and be prepared. More than one > bought-out competitor has simply disappeared, or been hamstrung in its > effectiveness. Yes. So, because such contingency plans take quite some time to prepare, now *is* the time to be talking about it. -- \ “There's a certain part of the contented majority who love | `\anybody who is worth a billion dollars.” —John Kenneth | _o__)Galbraith, 1992-05-23 | Ben Finney ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On 06/04/2018 10:49 AM, Mariatta Wijaya wrote: I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. We should have contingency plans and be prepared. More than one bought-out competitor has simply disappeared, or been hamstrung in its effectiveness. -- ~Ethan~ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Le 04/06/2018 à 19:49, Mariatta Wijaya a écrit : > I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. > If people are concerned with how Microsoft will manage GitHub, please > talk to Microsoft or GitHub representative, and not gossip in python-dev. What would talking to a MS or GH representative achieve? Of course they won't tell you if their company intend to disturb the current service in a few years. 1) being mere employees they are forbidden to make such statements that could hurt the company's bottom line; 2) they probably don't know themselves, since representatives aren't the ones making decisions, and there's no reason they would be notified months or years in advance. So, if you talk to a representative, you will obviously get some reassuring PR speak (which might be sincere btw). All we are left with is to speculate on where the company's interests lie. It's not unknown for products or services to endure stark changes after their provider is being bought by another entity. Microsoft themselves did it (see Skype), and of course others did as well. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
I think we shouldn't be speculating or making guesses. If people are concerned with how Microsoft will manage GitHub, please talk to Microsoft or GitHub representative, and not gossip in python-dev. If there is actual news or announcement of how GitHub will change, and how it will affect our workflow, we'll discuss in core-workflow. Mariatta On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 10:02 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. > For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote > (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve > integrations with other CI services? > > Regards > > Antoine > ᐧ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
That's true, but Microsoft has a lot of stakes in the ecosystem. For example, since it has its own CI service that it tries to promote (VSTS), is it in Microsoft's best interest to polish and improve integrations with other CI services? Regards Antoine. On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 09:06:28 -0700 Guido van Rossum wrote: > On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > > > On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 > > Victor Stinner wrote: > > > > > > At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that > > > it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big > > > company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that > > > nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about > > > anything. > > > > It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to > > worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about > > moving issues to Github. > > > > I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had > remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it > would make enough money to stay in business. > ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 > Victor Stinner wrote: > > > > At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that > > it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big > > company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that > > nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about > > anything. > > It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to > worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about > moving issues to Github. > I don't see how this *increases* the uncertainty. Surely if GitHub had remained independent there would have been be similar concerns about how it would make enough money to stay in business. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 17:03:27 +0200 Victor Stinner wrote: > > At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that > it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big > company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that > nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about > anything. It does spell uncertainty on the long term. While there is no need to worry for now, I think it gives a different colour to the debate about moving issues to Github. Regards Antoine. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Python-Dev] Microsoft to acquire GitHub for $7.5 billion
Hi, It's now official: Microsoft is acquiring GitHub. https://blog.github.com/2018-06-04-github-microsoft/ https://news.microsoft.com/2018/06/04/microsoft-to-acquire-github-for-7-5-billion/ I copy the news here since Python rely more and more on GitHub. At this point, I have no opinion about the event :-) I just guess that it should make GitHub more sustainable since Microsoft is a big company with money and interest in GitHub. I'm also confident that nothing will change soon. IMHO there is no need to worry about anything. Victor ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
