Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On Feb 03, 2010, at 09:55 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
-snip snip-
from __future__ import unicode_literals
def func(foo, bar):
print foo, bar
kw = {'foo': 7, 'bar': 9}
func(**kw)
-snip snip-
That will raise a TypeError in 2.6 but works in 2.7. Is it appropriate and
feasible to back port that to Python 2.6? I remember talking about this a
while back but I don't remember what we decided and I can't find a bug on the
issue.
I don't know about feasible but I think it's (borderline) appropriate.
There are various other paths that lead to this error and it feels to
me it's just a long-standing bug that we never took care of until 2.7.
However, I don't think it needs to support non-ASCII characters in the
keywords (even though 2.7 does seem to support those).
The back port from trunk of r68805 to fix this was really pretty trivial.
http://bugs.python.org/issue4978
http://bugs.python.org/file16124/py26-backport.patch
Assigned to Benjamin for review.
-Barry
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[Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jan 31, 2010, at 01:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: We deliberate don't document -U because its typical effect is break the world - it makes all strings unicode in 2.x. As an aside, I think this should be documented *somewhere* other than just in import.c! I'd totally forgotten about it until I read the source and almost missed it. Either it should be documented or it should be ripped out. Ripping it out is probably a reasonable idea given that there is a much better approach available now (i.e. trying to run under Py3k) that actually has a vague hope of working. Then again, if 2.7 really is the last non-maintenance 2.x release, what's to be gained by messing with it? Cheers, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan | ncogh...@gmail.com | Brisbane, Australia --- ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
Nick Coghlan wrote: Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jan 31, 2010, at 01:44 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: We deliberate don't document -U because its typical effect is break the world - it makes all strings unicode in 2.x. It only affects string literals, not all strings. As an aside, I think this should be documented *somewhere* other than just in import.c! I'd totally forgotten about it until I read the source and almost missed it. Either it should be documented or it should be ripped out. Ripping it out is probably a reasonable idea given that there is a much better approach available now (i.e. trying to run under Py3k) that actually has a vague hope of working. Then again, if 2.7 really is the last non-maintenance 2.x release, what's to be gained by messing with it? Nothing much, but then it's been undocumented for a number of releases in order to be able to remove it at some point, so +1 to get rid off it for 2.7. Note that in Python 2.7 you can use from __future__ import unicode_literals on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Feb 03 2010) Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On 02:52 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote: Note that in Python 2.7 you can use from __future__ import unicode_literals on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect. In Python 2.6 as well. Jean-Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 02:52 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote: Note that in Python 2.7 you can use from __future__ import unicode_literals on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect. In Python 2.6 as well. Right, but there are a few issues in 2.6 that will be fixed in 2.7. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Feb 03 2010) Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On 03:21 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote: exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 02:52 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote: Note that in Python 2.7 you can use from __future__ import unicode_literals on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect. In Python 2.6 as well. Right, but there are a few issues in 2.6 that will be fixed in 2.7. Ah. I don't see anything on the What's New page. Got a link? Jean-Paul ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 03:21 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote: exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote: On 02:52 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote: Note that in Python 2.7 you can use from __future__ import unicode_literals on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect. In Python 2.6 as well. Right, but there are a few issues in 2.6 that will be fixed in 2.7. Ah. I don't see anything on the What's New page. Got a link? http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2009-January/085110.html http://bugs.python.org/issue4978 and related: http://bugs.python.org/issue2931 http://bugs.python.org/issue4319 -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Feb 03 2010) Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/ mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/ ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH Pastor-Loeh-Str.48 D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611 http://www.egenix.com/company/contact/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On Feb 03, 2010, at 11:10 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: Ripping it out is probably a reasonable idea given that there is a much better approach available now (i.e. trying to run under Py3k) that actually has a vague hope of working. Then again, if 2.7 really is the last non-maintenance 2.x release, what's to be gained by messing with it? Well, in case we decide to do it, this bug tracks that effort: http://bugs.python.org/issue7847 -Barry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On Feb 03, 2010, at 04:21 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
On 02:52 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote:
Note that in Python 2.7 you can use
from __future__ import unicode_literals
on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect.
In Python 2.6 as well.
Right, but there are a few issues in 2.6 that will be fixed
in 2.7.
The one that bites me most often is that in 2.6, keyword arguments must be
strs; unicodes are not accepted:
-snip snip-
from __future__ import unicode_literals
def func(foo, bar):
print foo, bar
kw = {'foo': 7, 'bar': 9}
func(**kw)
-snip snip-
That will raise a TypeError in 2.6 but works in 2.7. Is it appropriate and
feasible to back port that to Python 2.6? I remember talking about this a
while back but I don't remember what we decided and I can't find a bug on the
issue.
-Barry
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Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
On Feb 03, 2010, at 04:21 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
exar...@twistedmatrix.com wrote:
On 02:52 pm, m...@egenix.com wrote:
Note that in Python 2.7 you can use
from __future__ import unicode_literals
on a per module basis to achieve much the same effect.
In Python 2.6 as well.
Right, but there are a few issues in 2.6 that will be fixed
in 2.7.
The one that bites me most often is that in 2.6, keyword arguments must be
strs; unicodes are not accepted:
-snip snip-
from __future__ import unicode_literals
def func(foo, bar):
print foo, bar
kw = {'foo': 7, 'bar': 9}
func(**kw)
-snip snip-
That will raise a TypeError in 2.6 but works in 2.7. Is it appropriate and
feasible to back port that to Python 2.6? I remember talking about this a
while back but I don't remember what we decided and I can't find a bug on the
issue.
I don't know about feasible but I think it's (borderline) appropriate.
There are various other paths that lead to this error and it feels to
me it's just a long-standing bug that we never took care of until 2.7.
However, I don't think it needs to support non-ASCII characters in the
keywords (even though 2.7 does seem to support those).
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
That will raise a TypeError in 2.6 but works in 2.7. Is it appropriate and
feasible to back port that to Python 2.6? I remember talking about this a
while back but I don't remember what we decided and I can't find a bug on the
issue.
I don't know about feasible but I think it's (borderline) appropriate.
I fail to see the point there as well. There will be about two more 2.6
releases until we stop fixing bugs in it, and start recommending 2.7.
So who would be helped if such a feature would be added to 2.6?
There are various other paths that lead to this error and it feels to
me it's just a long-standing bug that we never took care of until 2.7.
However, I don't think it needs to support non-ASCII characters in the
keywords (even though 2.7 does seem to support those).
Is it really necessary to ban them? In the regular keyword argument
syntax (arg=value), the lexer will reject them. If you pass them through
a dictionary, why go through the dictionary and ban those that you don't
like? If the callee also uses the **kw syntax, they may actually be able
to receive them.
Notice that this works also in 2.5:
py def foo(**kw):pass
...
py foo(**{'':None})
py foo(**{'\0':None})
Regards,
Martin
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Re: [Python-Dev] The fate of the -U option
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
That will raise a TypeError in 2.6 but works in 2.7. Is it appropriate and
feasible to back port that to Python 2.6? I remember talking about this a
while back but I don't remember what we decided and I can't find a bug on
the
issue.
I don't know about feasible but I think it's (borderline) appropriate.
I fail to see the point there as well. There will be about two more 2.6
releases until we stop fixing bugs in it, and start recommending 2.7.
So who would be helped if such a feature would be added to 2.6?
Presumably the people who asked for it want it. Regardless of what you
(or I) recommend, 2.6 will be in use for a long time.
There are various other paths that lead to this error and it feels to
me it's just a long-standing bug that we never took care of until 2.7.
However, I don't think it needs to support non-ASCII characters in the
keywords (even though 2.7 does seem to support those).
Is it really necessary to ban them?
No, that's not what I meant -- I just meant that it wasn't necessary
to support non-ASCII if it would in any way complicate the patch.
In the regular keyword argument
syntax (arg=value), the lexer will reject them. If you pass them through
a dictionary, why go through the dictionary and ban those that you don't
like? If the callee also uses the **kw syntax, they may actually be able
to receive them.
Notice that this works also in 2.5:
py def foo(**kw):pass
...
py foo(**{'':None})
py foo(**{'\0':None})
OTOH a more conservative solution would convert the keywords to str
instances so that the receiving end (the body of foo) would never see
Unicode objects even while allowing (some) Unicode objects on the
sending end (foo's caller).
--
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
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