[issue33095] Cross-reference isolated mode from relevant locations

[Karthikeyan Singaravelan]

Karthikeyan Singaravelan  added the comment:

There are four parts where I could see sys.path manipulation being mentioned 
while running scripts : 

-c option (https://docs.python.org/3/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-c)
-m option (https://docs.python.org/3/using/cmdline.html#cmdoption-m)
-  (input option) 

Re: syntax difference

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 3:30 PM, Ben Finney  wrote:
> Sharan Basappa  writes:
>
>> I think I am now confused with format options in Python.
>
> You should refer to the documentation for string formatting
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#str.format>
> https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>
>
> (or, if you want to continue with the older less-flexible style,
> )

For the record, there's nothing at all wrong with printf-style
formatting; its flexibility and brevity make it extremely useful in
many situations.

ChrisA
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Re: syntax difference

[Ben Finney]

Sharan Basappa  writes:

> I think I am now confused with format options in Python.

You should refer to the documentation for string formatting
https://docs.python.org/3/library/stdtypes.html#str.format>
https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html#formatstrings>

(or, if you want to continue with the older less-flexible style,
)

> I tried an example as below and both print proper value:
>
> age = 35
>
> print "age is %s" % age

The ‘s’ format specifier says “Ask the object for its text
representation, and put that text here”.

Every object has a text representation, so ‘s’ works with any object.

> print "age is %d" % age

The ‘d’ format specifier says “Format the integer as a decimal text
representation, and put that text here”.

Only objects that are integers (or that implement the format-as-decimal
API) will work with ‘d’.

> I other languages I know the format specifier should be same as the
> variable type. For example, in the above case, it has to be %d and not
> %s

Because you are explicitly specifying which formatting to use, there's
no ambiguity. With an object that is an integer, either of the above
makes sense in different use cases.

-- 
 \“A right is not what someone gives you; it's what no one can |
  `\ take from you.” —Ramsey Clark |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

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Re: syntax difference

[Sharan Basappa]

On Sunday, 17 June 2018 07:25:57 UTC+5:30, Ben Bacarisse  wrote:
> Cameron Simpson  writes:
> 
> > ... In Python 3 we have "format strings", which let you write:
> >
> >  name = "Sharon"
> >  age = 35
> >  print(f"The person named {name|r} is {age} years old.")
> 
> You meant {name!r} I think there.
> 
> -- 
> Ben.

thanks, everyone.

I think I am now confused with format options in Python.
I tried an example as below and both print proper value:

age = 35

print "age is %s" % age
print "age is %d" % age

%run "D:/Projects/Initiatives/machine learning/programs/six.py"
age is 35
age is 35

I other languages I know the format specifier should be same as the variable 
type. For example, in the above case, it has to be %d and not %s
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[issue26917] unicodedata.normalize(): bug in Hangul Composition

[Ma Lin]

Ma Lin  added the comment:

This issue can be closed, already fixed in issue29456

Also, PyPy's current code is correct.

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[issue29456] bugs in unicodedata.normalize: u1176, u11a7 and u11c3

[Ma Lin]

Ma Lin  added the comment:

You are right.

I found a Normalization Test Suite for Unicode 3.2
http://www.unicode.org/Public/3.2-Update/NormalizationTest-3.2.0.txt

\u1176 is not in the range of the second character.
\u11a7, \u11c3 are not in the range of the third character.

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Re: Understanding memory location of Python variables

[Grant Edwards]

On 2018-06-16, ip.b...@gmail.com  wrote:

> I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally
> contrary to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?
>
 myName = "Kevin"
 id(myName)
> 47406848
 id(myName[0])
> 36308576
 id(myName[1])
> 2476000

What's happening is that you're paying attention to the values
returned by id(), when you should not.  The fact that CPython returns
a VM address when you call id() is just an "accident" of that
particular implimentation.  You shouldn't assume that id() returns
anything other than a number that is unique to each object.  Any time
you spend worrying about how that number is calculated is proably
wasted.

> I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the myName 
> variable itself.

Python is not C.

> I also expected myName[1] to be located immediately after myName[0].

Python is not C.

Just in case you missed that...

Python is not C.

-- 
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[issue33872] doc Add list access time to list definition

[Ammar Askar]

Ammar Askar  added the comment:

I'd say edit the PR and the bug tracker issue to reflect the change. Though you 
might want to wait for the opinion of a core dev or someone with more 
documentation experience than me.

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[issue33872] doc Add list access time to list definition

[Andrés Delfino]

Andrés Delfino  added the comment:

If O(1) time complexity for element access is not a requirement (which it seems 
it's not), I agree that this PR as it is should be closed, and the Glossary 
entry should have this detail removed.

In that case, can I edit the PR or should I open a new one?

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[issue33872] doc Add list access time to list definition

[Ammar Askar]

Ammar Askar  added the comment:

I don't think this should be documented at all, not in the glossary, nor the 
stdtypes section. A quick search through of the glossary and stdtypes indicates 
that the glossary entry of list is the only place where a time complexity is 
documented.

The problem with documenting this is that the underlying complexity is an 
implementation detail, by saying its always O(1), alternative implementations 
like PyPy etc cannot freely implement lists in whatever way they wish.

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Re: syntax difference

[Ben Bacarisse]

Cameron Simpson  writes:

> ... In Python 3 we have "format strings", which let you write:
>
>  name = "Sharon"
>  age = 35
>  print(f"The person named {name|r} is {age} years old.")

You meant {name!r} I think there.

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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:58 AM, Gregory Ewing
 wrote:
> Alister wrote:
>>
>> A few quick tests later confirmed that whenever the photocopier made
>> multiple copies (approx 10+) the circuit would reset
>>  Cust advised to relocate photocopier, case closed :-)
>
>
> I was expecting the solution to be a note attached to the
> photocopier saying "Please do not make more than 9 copies
> at a time".

https://xkcd.com/1457/

XKCD is not a work of fiction. It is, at best, a slight exaggeration
of reality. My Dad used to reboot his computer before burning a DVD,
because it seemed to create less failed burns. No explanation was ever
found. (He doesn't make DVD backups any more, so the issue has been
dodged.)

ChrisA
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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Gregory Ewing]

Alister wrote:
A few quick tests later confirmed that whenever the photocopier made 
multiple copies (approx 10+) the circuit would reset
 
Cust advised to relocate photocopier, case closed :-)


I was expecting the solution to be a note attached to the
photocopier saying "Please do not make more than 9 copies
at a time".

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[issue33883] doc Mention mypy, pytype and PyAnnotate in FAQ

[Andrés Delfino]

Change by Andrés Delfino :


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[issue33883] doc Mention mypy, pytype and PyAnnotate in FAQ

[Andrés Delfino]

New submission from Andrés Delfino :

As far as I know, mypy and pytype are more advanced that any of the other tools 
mentioned in the FAQ for static analysis, however we are not touching them.

PR adds mentions.

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components: Documentation
messages: 319798
nosy: adelfino, docs@python
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: doc Mention mypy, pytype and PyAnnotate in FAQ
type: enhancement
versions: Python 2.7, Python 3.6, Python 3.7, Python 3.8

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[issue33878] Doc: Assignment statement to tuple or list: case missing.

[Martin Panter]

Martin Panter  added the comment:

I think it is okay to leave out the options for the unpacking case. But I think 
it is worth clarifying that the single-target case also applies without 
parentheses, but that it doesn’t apply if there is a trailing comma. So:

‘‘‘
If the target list is a single target with no trailing comma, optionally in 
parentheses, the object is assigned to that target.

Else the object must be an iterable . . .
’’’

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[issue33882] doc Mention breakpoint() in debugger-related FAQ

[Andrés Delfino]

Change by Andrés Delfino :


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[issue33882] doc Mention breakpoint() in debugger-related FAQ

[Andrés Delfino]

New submission from Andrés Delfino :

IMHO, it's a good opportunity to advertise the convenience of breakpoint().

PR adds a mention.

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components: Documentation
messages: 319796
nosy: adelfino, docs@python
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
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type: enhancement
versions: Python 3.7, Python 3.8

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[issue33821] IDLE subsection of What's New 3.7

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

There will be more IDLE entries when features are added to maintenance 
releases.  See What's New 3.6 for examples, and PEP 434 for further 
explanation.  I prefer to have one issue for all patches to that section.

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Re: Understanding memory location of Python variables

[Chris Angelico]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 2:38 AM,   wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally contrary 
> to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?
>
 myName = "Kevin"
 id(myName)
> 47406848
 id(myName[0])
> 36308576
 id(myName[1])
> 2476000
>
> I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the myName 
> variable itself. I also expected myName[1] to be located immediately after 
> myName[0].
>

A string or array in C is allocated in contiguous memory. Python,
however, is not C. What you're looking at is the identities of
objects, not the memory locations of bytes. Everything you're assuming
about C should be discarded.

ChrisA
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Re: Understanding memory location of Python variables

[Steven D'Aprano]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 09:38:07 -0700, ip.bcrs wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally
> contrary to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?
> 
 myName = "Kevin"
 id(myName)
> 47406848
 id(myName[0])
> 36308576
 id(myName[1])
> 2476000
> 
> I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the
> myName variable itself.

Nothing in the above example tells you anything about memory locations 
(except by accident).

The id() function does not return a memory address (except by accident). 
It returns an opaque integer ID code, that is all. If you try that on 
another Python interpreter, such as Jython or IronPython, you will see 
something like this:

>>> sys.executable
'/usr/bin/jython'
>>> myName = "Kevin"
>>> id(myName)
3
>>> id(myName[1])
4
>>> id(myName[0])
5


Notice that IDs are allocated sequentially, in the order you ask for them.


> I also expected myName[1] to be located immediately after myName[0].

Why? Even if id() happens to return a memory address, the details of 
where Python allocates a new object is unpredictable.


-- 
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson

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[issue33821] IDLE subsection of What's New 3.7

[Stéphane Wirtel]

Stéphane Wirtel  added the comment:

Hi Terry,

not sure, but your PR have been merged, but this issue should be closed, do you 
confirm?

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Re: syntax difference

[Cameron Simpson]

On 16Jun2018 12:01, Sharan Basappa  wrote:

Is there a difference between these prints. The first one looks a bit complex. 
So, why should it be used?

my_age = 35 # not a lie

print "my age %s." % my_age
print "my age ", my_age

Output:
%run "D:/Projects/Initiatives/machine learning/programs/five.py"
my age 35.
my age  35


In case nobody else notices, the reason the second one has 2 spaces before "35" 
is that print puts a space between items. So you have a space from the "my age 
" and also a space from the item separation. The first print statement is only 
printing one item.


Regarding which style to use: the latter is better because it is more readable.  
The former can be better when constructing a string with several values where 
you want more control and better readablility _for the message as a whole_.


Consider:

 # variables, just to make the examples work
 # in a real programme perhaps these came from
 # some more complex earlier stuff
 name = "Sharon"
 age = 35
 print "The person named %r is %d years old." % (name, age)

versus:

 name = "Sharon"
 age = 35
 print "The person named", repr(name), "is", age, "years old."

I'd be inclined to prefer the former one because I can see the shape of the 
message.


Also, I notice you're using Python 2 (from the print syntax). In Python 3 we 
have "format strings", which let you write:


 name = "Sharon"
 age = 35
 print(f"The person named {name|r} is {age} years old.")

Win win!

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: pattern

[Cameron Simpson]

On 16Jun2018 11:59, Sharan Basappa  wrote:

This is so kind of you. Thanks for spending time to explain the code.
It did help a lot. I did go back and brush up lists & dictionaries.

At this point, I think, I need to go back and brush up Python from the start.
So, I will do that first.


Sure, sounds good.

But write code! It is not enough to read code and read about code. You need to 
write code and modify code. Otherwise the skills don't internalise well.


If you're running the code you asked about, one way to learn a lot about 
something that looks obscrure is simply to put in print() calls at various 
places, eg:


  print("iterate over traing_data =", repr(training_data))
  for pattern in training_data:
  # tokenize each word in the sentence
  print("pattern =", repr(pattern))
  w = nltk.word_tokenize(pattern['sentence'])
  print("w =", repr(w))
  # add to our words list
  words.extend(w)
  print("words =", repr(words))
  # add to documents in our corpus
  documents.append((w, pattern['class']))
  print("documents =", repr(documents))

Note the use of repr(): it will print out the structure of lists and so forth, 
very useful.


Just reviewing that loop, the logic does look a little weird to me. I think the 
"documents.append" should be inside the loop because otherwise it only accrues 
the _last_ "w" and "pattern".


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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[issue10652] test___all_ + test_tcl fails (Windows installed binary)

[Zachary Ware]

Zachary Ware  added the comment:

Excellent.  Thanks, Terry!

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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset c488558faaff4ffa44ba20e0c1f1fc8f18fe722f by Terry Jan Reedy in 
branch '2.7':
[2.7] bpo-33856: Add "help" to the welcome message of IDLE (GH-7755) (GH-7758)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/c488558faaff4ffa44ba20e0c1f1fc8f18fe722f


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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


--
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status: open -> closed

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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 25531fb7b8338a21cdcdf2ce0f981d781d21641f by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.6':
bpo-33856: Add "help" to the welcome message of IDLE (GH-7755)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/25531fb7b8338a21cdcdf2ce0f981d781d21641f


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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[Terry J. Reedy]

Change by Terry J. Reedy :


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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[miss-islington]

miss-islington  added the comment:


New changeset 6bb770445192e19aef94111c6a9913e1526c4d64 by Miss Islington (bot) 
in branch '3.7':
bpo-33856: Add "help" to the welcome message of IDLE (GH-7755)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/6bb770445192e19aef94111c6a9913e1526c4d64


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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


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[issue33856] IDLE: "help" is missing from the sign-on message

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Thanks for the clarification.

>>> help works

but is not in the sign-on message, even though it is by far the most important 
item mentioned.  I just merged to master.

--
assignee:  -> terry.reedy
components: +IDLE
resolution: not a bug -> 
stage: resolved -> backport needed
status: closed -> open
title: Type "help" is not present on win32 -> IDLE: "help" is missing from the 
sign-on message
type:  -> behavior
versions: +Python 2.7, Python 3.7, Python 3.8

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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[miss-islington]

Change by miss-islington :


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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset 9d49f85064c388e2dddb9f8cb4ae1f486bc8d357 by Terry Jan Reedy 
(Stéphane Wirtel) in branch 'master':
bpo-33856: Add "help" to the welcome message of IDLE (GH-7755)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/9d49f85064c388e2dddb9f8cb4ae1f486bc8d357


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[issue23660] Turtle left/right inverted when using different coordinates orientation

[Andre Roberge]

Andre Roberge  added the comment:

I am sorry to hear that this bug was closed based on the unproven assumption 
that this would impact teaching material.  I have *never* seen any pedaggical 
material for the turtle module where the instructor wrote "use left() to have 
the turtle turn right, and vice-versa".

I file the original bug report and the code to fix it based on a report on the 
edu-sig mailing list, more than 3 years ago 
https://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/2015-March/011207.html

This bug makes it pedagogically unwise to set the coordinate system as 
described since a left() instruction makes the turtle turns right, and 
vice-versa. So, no one using the turtle module to teach can currently use this 
type of coordinate choice as it would be too confusing to students.  The 
solution provided would have fixed that.

If that is the final decision, then so be it - and I will advise people to use 
Brython's turtle module instead as it does not have this bug.

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[issue10652] test___all_ + test_tcl fails (Windows installed binary)

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I believe the following means 'No' and that you can close this.

f:\dev\27>python -m test.regrtest test___all__ test_tcl
Running Debug|Win32 interpreter...
Run tests sequentially
0:00:00 [1/2] test___all__
0:00:24 [2/2] test_tcl
All 2 tests OK.

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[issue10531] write tilted text in turtle

[Ammar Askar]

Ammar Askar  added the comment:

I don't think backwards compatibility matters too much for the turtle package 
but the way its proposed in the initial report makes it so that text in 
previous versions would now be angled to the turtle's heading.

To keep the previous behavior a keyword arg could be added but given that this 
package is mostly for learning and fun, that might complicate it a little.

Aside from that, the patch to add this is fairly trivial now.

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[issue33879] Item assignment in tuple mutates list despite throwing error

[R. David Murray]

Change by R. David Murray :


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[issue23922] Refactor icon setting to a separate function for Turtle

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I am closing and rejecting this as not worth the bother and "ain't gonna 
happen" at things now stand.  

The 'IDLE icons' are not IDLE icons.  They are Python application icons which I 
adapted for IDLE.  The one on the Windows taskbar are set by the Windows 
installer.

The IDLE code could be copied into turtle (where it might stagnate if tk 
changes), but this would require making turtle a package.  Not worth it.
I don't consider using the tk icons that big a problem.  They work across 
platforms and the tk people will continue to make sure they do.  I would not be 
terribly surprised is some beginners think that the blue feature *is* a turtle 
logo ;-).

To use the IDLE code directly, it should be in a public interface module.  I am 
willing to create one within idlelib, but there would be opposition, so this is 
off the table for now.

I think there should be a utility module under tkinter, but Serhiy has shown no 
interest, and I am not going to divert my energy to pushing this at present.  
In any case, I think such a proposal should be a clean new issue.

--
resolution:  -> rejected
stage: needs patch -> resolved
status: open -> closed
versions: +Python 3.8 -Python 3.7

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/16/2018 12:38 PM, Rick Johnson wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 9:14:13 PM UTC-5, Richard Damon wrote:

if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
of worked [...]

...that's when the engineers in the Redmond, WA area know it's time to package 
and ship the product!


And in so doing, produce an exponential growth in wasted money and time 
worldwide as countless people struggle to do things that "sort of work".


-Jim

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[issue29560] Tkinter and turtle graphics fill differs between Windows and *nix

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Behavior has not changed.  It is a legitimate doc issue for both tkinter and 
turtle.

The turtle intro, https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html#introduction, 
currently 24.1.1. says nothing about the sidebar and image.  I think there 
should be a short paragraph added, which includes "The image was drawn on 
Linux.  On Windows, the star will be filled in solid." 

The filling doc, https://docs.python.org/3/library/turtle.html#filling, should 
also have a note.

If you do a PR, I will review.

The tkinter docs should be handled separately.

--
assignee:  -> docs@python
components: +Documentation
nosy: +docs@python
stage:  -> needs patch
title: Turtle graphics fill behavior differs between versions -> Tkinter and 
turtle graphics fill differs between Windows and *nix
versions: +Python 3.7, Python 3.8 -Python 3.5

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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[Alister via Python-list]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 14:25:52 -0400, William Ray Wing wrote:

>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:54:15 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jim Lee  wrote:
>> 
 I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
 the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
 otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
 problem,
 but then someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner. 
 When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless
 of temperature.
 
 
>>> I would be mind-blown if I did not have the aforementioned too many
>>> hours. Sadly, I am merely facepalming. Wow.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Let me add one more story (true) to the list.  Concerns an old IBM
> mainframe installed in a bank in New York City, that crashed rarely, and
> only night, never during the day.  They called IBM; repair man spent the
> night with it - no crash; same story the next night and the next. 
> Finally on the forth night he left around 10:00 PM to get something to
> eat and some coffee.  Came back to find the computer had crashed.  Spent
> the next night - no crash.  Left the next again for coffee, came back to
> find the computer down.  Obviously it was only crashing when he wasn't
> watching.  Next night he left, but only took the elevator down to the
> ground floor, didn’t go outside.  Computer crashed.  He rebooted,
> restarted the job stream, left the computer room for the same length of
> time, but didn’t leave the floor.  No crash.
> 
> To make a long story short, it was the motor-generator set that ran the
> elevators.  During the day, there was enough constant elevator traffic
> so that the MG set never shut down and even it it did, there was enough
> load elsewhere in the building to make the start-up transient a
> relatively small perturbation.  At night it would time out, shut down,
> and when he called for the elevator late at night, the start-up
> transient was too much for the computer’s power regulators.
> 
> Earlier crashes turned out to be coincident with janitorial staff
> working extra late after special events.
> 
> Bill
> 
My supervisor had a similar issue with a PBX (Telephone system) that 
would cut of callers when the lift was used.

I personally one attended a site to try to identify why an ISDN circuit 
kept randomly resetting.
I had been on the phone with the BT engineer for about 1/2 hr monitoring 
the circuit when it suddenly cut off.

"Was it anything I did" asked the person using the photo copier

A few quick tests later confirmed that whenever the photocopier made 
multiple copies (approx 10+) the circuit would reset
 
Cust advised to relocate photocopier, case closed :-)

or if you want a really strange one we used to maintain PBX's for a 
particular Bank.
A common fault report was the earpiece buzzing.
This turned out to be caused by blown halogen light bulbs in a nearby 
display board (i don't know who originally identified that one). working 
on the help desk it was always "fun" trying to convince the user that 
this was the problem, understandably they though we were pulling their 
leg"

 

> 
> 
>> --
>> Steven D'Aprano "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've
>> been seeing it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
>> 
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list





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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Stéphane Wirtel]

Stéphane Wirtel  added the comment:

PR proposed

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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Stéphane Wirtel]

Change by Stéphane Wirtel :


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[issue24990] Foreign language support in turtle module

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

Al did post to python-ideas, with a link to a prototype.  I think a fair 
summary is that core-developers had at least the same reluctance to be involve 
with code translations as with doc translations.  We rejected doing the latter 
as part of cpython by pydev.  I am doing the same with respect to this specific 
implementation.

Looking at the prototype, I agreed with Al hard-coding translations is a 
"terrible way for a software module to implement internationalization,".  For 
one thing, mixing multiple languages does not scale.

On python-ideas, I urged Al to make this a pypi project.  I give below a 
different path that would also be mostly independent of cpython and this 
tracker.

The March 2017 pydev decision with respect to document translations, as 
described in the PEP, was that they should be a separate project with a 
separate team, team leaders, contributor agreement, infrastructure, and 
procedures. The pydev/cpython contribution was limited adding the language 
selection box and whatever html is needed to grab a translation.

Code translations should be handled the same way. One of the common issues, for 
instance, is trust.  Core developers are in no position to check that 
translations are not, for instance, 'adults-only'. The translation project 
leaders have worked out whatever procedure they have for vetting translators 
and translations.  For one thing, I believe they usually have more than one 
person per language team.

According to the PEP,  https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/doc-sig
is used for discussion of document translations.  When I feel like revisiting 
the issue of translating IDLE's menus, I will discuss it with them.

I think anyone interested in turtle command translations should do the same.  
When there is something to hook to and therefore a need to modify turtle, a new 
issue can be opened.

--
resolution:  -> rejected
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Rick Johnson]

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 9:14:13 PM UTC-5, Richard Damon wrote:
> if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
> of worked [...]

...that's when the engineers in the Redmond, WA area know it's time to package 
and ship the product!
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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Stéphane Wirtel]

Stéphane Wirtel  added the comment:

Hi Zach, in fact, it's not a problem with Python itself, but with Idle.

I just downloaded a virtualbox image via 
(https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/tools/vms/) and started 
the installation of Python 3.6.5

and when you execute IDLE, "help()" is not present, but this sentence is 
present in the prompt of python3.

I am going to provide a small patch.

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[issue10652] test___all_ + test_tcl fails (Windows installed binary)

[Zachary Ware]

Zachary Ware  added the comment:

The root of this issue was fixed by #20035 for 3.5+.  Terry, do you still have 
issues with this with 2.7, and is it still worth trying to fix?

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Re: Scanner freakishness [was Re: Python list vs google group]

[William Ray Wing]

> On Jun 16, 2018, at 9:10 AM, Steven D'Aprano 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 11:54:15 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Jim Lee  wrote:
> 
>>> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
>>> the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
>>> otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware problem,
>>> but then someone released a native Linux driver for the scanner.  When
>>> I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine regardless of
>>> temperature.
>>> 
>>> 
>> I would be mind-blown if I did not have the aforementioned too many
>> hours. Sadly, I am merely facepalming. Wow.
> 
> 

Let me add one more story (true) to the list.  Concerns an old IBM mainframe 
installed in a bank in New York City, that crashed rarely, and only night, 
never during the day.  They called IBM; repair man spent the night with it - no 
crash; same story the next night and the next.  Finally on the forth night he 
left around 10:00 PM to get something to eat and some coffee.  Came back to 
find the computer had crashed.  Spent the next night - no crash.  Left the next 
again for coffee, came back to find the computer down.  Obviously it was only 
crashing when he wasn't watching.  Next night he left, but only took the 
elevator down to the ground floor, didn’t go outside.  Computer crashed.  He 
rebooted, restarted the job stream, left the computer room for the same length 
of time, but didn’t leave the floor.  No crash.

To make a long story short, it was the motor-generator set that ran the 
elevators.  During the day, there was enough constant elevator traffic so that 
the MG set never shut down and even it it did, there was enough load elsewhere 
in the building to make the start-up transient a relatively small perturbation. 
 At night it would time out, shut down, and when he called for the elevator 
late at night, the start-up transient was too much for the computer’s power 
regulators.

Earlier crashes turned out to be coincident with janitorial staff working extra 
late after special events.

Bill


> 
> -- 
> Steven D'Aprano
> "Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
> it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
> 
> -- 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

-- 
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Re: Understanding memory location of Python variables

[Alister via Python-list]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 13:19:04 -0400, Joel Goldstick wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 12:38 PM,   wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally
>> contrary to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?
>>
> myName = "Kevin"
> id(myName)
>> 47406848
> id(myName[0])
>> 36308576
> id(myName[1])
>> 2476000
>>
>> I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the
>> myName variable itself. I also expected myName[1] to be located
>> immediately after myName[0].
>> --
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
> 
> Others can probably give a more complete explanation, but small numbers,
> and apparently letters are cached since they are so common.

also ID is not necessarily a memory location (at least not according to 
the language specification)
the standard cpython implementation does user the memory location for an 
object's ID but this is an implementation detail
 
if you are tying to make use of ID in any way to manipulate computer 
memory your program is fundamentaly broken



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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Zachary Ware]

Zachary Ware  added the comment:

I suspect you either had a non-python.org version of Python, or had the 
embeddable distribution rather than a proper installation (the embeddable 
distribution should not be used unless you're embedding, hence the name :)).  
Either way, the standard distribution started normally imports site by default, 
which monkeypatches `help` into builtins on all platforms.

--
nosy: +zach.ware
resolution:  -> not a bug
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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Re: syntax difference

[Alister via Python-list]

On Sat, 16 Jun 2018 12:01:16 -0700, Sharan Basappa wrote:

> Is there a difference between these prints. The first one looks a bit
> complex. So, why should it be used?
> 
> my_age = 35 # not a lie
> 
> print "my age %s." % my_age print "my age ", my_age
> 
> Output:
> %run "D:/Projects/Initiatives/machine learning/programs/five.py"
> my age 35.
> my age  35

in that example probably no difference - readability counts.
but if you want to display a slightly different message then you could 
the following

print "may age is %s years",% my_age

which is arguably nicer than
print "my age is",
print my_age,
print "Years"

& less error prone


you can of course expand this format with multiple insertions & even 
explicit formatting for specific data types.





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syntax difference

[Sharan Basappa]

Is there a difference between these prints. The first one looks a bit complex. 
So, why should it be used?

my_age = 35 # not a lie

print "my age %s." % my_age
print "my age ", my_age

Output:
%run "D:/Projects/Initiatives/machine learning/programs/five.py"
my age 35.
my age  35
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[issue33881] dataclasses should use NFKC to find duplicate members

[Eric V. Smith]

Change by Eric V. Smith :


--
title: dataclasses should use NFKD to find duplicate members -> dataclasses 
should use NFKC to find duplicate members

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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Ammar Askar]

Ammar Askar  added the comment:

Can't recreate from latest Python 3.6.5 downloaded off python.org

  > D:\Python365\python.exe
  Python 3.6.5 (v3.6.5:f59c0932b4, Mar 28 2018, 16:07:46) [MSC v.1900 32 bit 
(Intel)] on win32
  Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

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Re: pattern

[Sharan Basappa]

Dear Cameron,

This is so kind of you. Thanks for spending time to explain the code.
It did help a lot. I did go back and brush up lists & dictionaries.

At this point, I think, I need to go back and brush up Python from the start.
So, I will do that first.

On Friday, 15 June 2018 09:12:22 UTC+5:30, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> On 14Jun2018 20:01, Sharan Basappa  wrote:
> >> >Can anyone explain to me the purpose of "pattern" in the line below:
> >> >
> >> >documents.append((w, pattern['class']))
> >> >
> >> >documents is declared as a list as follows:
> >> >documents.append((w, pattern['class']))
> >>
> >> Not without a lot more context. Where did you find this code?
> >
> >I am sorry that partial info was not sufficient.
> >I am actually trying to implement my first text classification code and I am 
> >referring to the below URL for that:
> >
> >https://machinelearnings.co/text-classification-using-neural-networks-f5cd7b8765c6
> 
> Ah, ok. It helps to include some cut/paste of the relevant code, though the 
> URL 
> is a big help.
> 
> The wider context of the code you recite looks like this:
> 
>   words = []
>   classes = []
>   documents = []
>   ignore_words = ['?']
>   # loop through each sentence in our training data
>   for pattern in training_data:
>   # tokenize each word in the sentence
>   w = nltk.word_tokenize(pattern['sentence'])
>   # add to our words list
>   words.extend(w)
>   # add to documents in our corpus
>   documents.append((w, pattern['class']))
> 
> and the training_data is defined like this:
> 
>   training_data = []
>   training_data.append({"class":"greeting", "sentence":"how are you?"})
>   training_data.append({"class":"greeting", "sentence":"how is your day?"})
>   ... lots more ...
> 
> So training data is a list of dicts, each dict holding a "class" and 
> "sentence" 
> key. The "for pattern in training_data" loop iterates over each item of the 
> training_data. It calls nltk.word_tokenize on the 'sentence" part of the 
> training item, presumably getting a list of "word" strings. The documents 
> list 
> gets this tuple:
> 
>   (w, pattern['class'])
> 
> added to it.
> 
> In this way the documents list ends up with tuples of (words, 
> classification), 
> with the words coming from the sentence via nltk and the classification 
> coming 
> straight from the train item's "class" value.
> 
> So at the end of the loop the documents array will look like:
> 
>   documents = [
> ( ['how', 'are', 'you'], 'greeting' ),
> ( ['how', 'is', 'your', 'day', 'greeting' ),
>   ]
> 
> and so forth.
> 
> Cheers,
> Cameron Simpson 

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[issue33856] Type "help" is not present on win32

[Stéphane Wirtel]

Stéphane Wirtel  added the comment:

Hi Steven,

On Thursday, I gave a python training with some Windows computers and I have 
executer python, just the REPL, normally, you have 

Python 3.6.5 (default, Apr  4 2018, 15:01:18) 
[GCC 7.3.1 20180303 (Red Hat 7.3.1-5)] on linux
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> 

But I didn't see the message with "help" in the prompt on the Windows computer. 
I would like to confirm with the standard bundle of python.org but I don't have 
a windows computer. and I didn't check the author of this bundle, but it was 
the 3.6.x version.

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Paul St George]

On 15/06/2018 17:33, T Berger wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 12:14:30 PM UTC-4, Mark Lawrence wrote:

On 15/06/18 16:47, T Berger wrote:

On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 11:31:47 AM UTC-4, Alister wrote:


it certainly seems to be the source of most SPAM
as such some users of this list/newsgroup call it what you like block all
posts from google groups


But you don't think you get more replies to a question posted here than emailed 
to the list? The forum and the email list are supposed to be different access 
routes to the same content, but I don't find that to be the case. I replied to 
a post via email, but my reply did not show up on this forum.

Tamara



For the third and final time, just get a (semi-)decent email client/news
reader/whatever it's called, point it at news.gmane.org and read this
forum, hundreds of other python forums and thousands of other technical
forums with no problems at all.  No cluttered inbox so no need to filter
anything.  I happen to use thunderbird, there are umpteen other choices.

--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence




Would you also need to know that the Newsgroup is called 
comp.python.general? I wasted many minutes looking for comp.lang.python.


So, in Thunderbird, File > New > Other Accounts...
News Server name (NNTP): news.gmane.org
Subscribe to: gmane.comp.python.general
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[issue33663] Web.py wsgiserver3.py raises TypeError when CSS file is not found

[Steve Dower]

Steve Dower  added the comment:

For the NEWS entry, I'd suggest putting "Library" for the category and use your 
commit message for the text at the end.

You should also fill out the CLA form posted in your PR by the bot. While we 
*can* overlook it for very simple changes, best to get it done anyway.

As to Jean-Marc's comment, what you are describing is basically a bug in a 
third-party library and should be reported to them. As far as I can tell, 
http.server handles the encoding just fine, and if the web package has 
overridden part of it then it needs to override the rest in order to send 
headers properly. We can be less surprising to subclasses by only sending str, 
but if they're handling the conversion to bytes we can't really help any more 
than that.

--
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[issue24978] Contributing to Documentation. Translation to Russian.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

There are now several official translations: see current doc pages, the bottom 
of https://devguide.python.org/experts/, and 
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0545/.  According to the pep, discussion is 
on doc-sig.  https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/doc-sig

'third party' is not quite right, but there is no 'separate repository and 
issues tracker' selection.

Carol, perhaps devguide 7. Documenting Python should have a short new section 
7.6 Translations with at least the above info, better formatted.

--
nosy: +terry.reedy, willingc
resolution:  -> third party
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed
title: Contributing to Python 2x and 3x Documentation. Translation to Russian. 
-> Contributing to Documentation. Translation to Russian.

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[issue33663] Web.py wsgiserver3.py raises TypeError when CSS file is not found

[Karthikeyan Singaravelan]

Karthikeyan Singaravelan  added the comment:

Congratulations! All the changes and patches are collected in Misc/NEWS.d file. 
You can find more information and the process to create one here : 
https://devguide.python.org/committing/?highlight=blurb#what-s-new-and-news-entries
 .

Happy hacking :)

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[issue31725] Turtle/tkinter: NameError crashes ipython with "Tcl_AsyncDelete: async handler deleted by the wrong thread"

[Rick J. Pelleg]

Rick J. Pelleg  added the comment:

Thanks!

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 18:53 Carol Willing  wrote:

>
> Carol Willing  added the comment:
>
> Hi Rick,
>
> I'm closing this issue as not reproducible. Thanks for filing it and using
> Turtle.
>
> --
> nosy: +willingc
> resolution:  -> not a bug
> stage:  -> resolved
> status: open -> closed
>
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> 
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[issue33880] namedtuple should use NFKD to find duplicate members

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

Actually, should this be NKFC?

>From https://docs.python.org/3.6/reference/lexical_analysis.html#identifiers : 

"All identifiers are converted into the normal form NFKC while parsing; 
comparison of identifiers is based on NFKC."

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[issue33663] Web.py wsgiserver3.py raises TypeError when CSS file is not found

[Valeriya Sinevich]

Valeriya Sinevich  added the comment:

Hello!

I created a PR for this but I am new to the process, so I don't know what to do 
with the error on "no news entry" issue. Could someone please help me with the 
next steps?

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How to get the versions of dependecies

[Cecil Westerhof]

If I update prompt-toolkit, I get:
ipython 6.4.0 has requirement prompt-toolkit<2.0.0,>=1.0.15, but you'll 
have prompt-toolkit 2.0.3 which is incompatible.

So I should not. At least not at the moment. But how do I get to know
which versions of a package are needed?

When Using:
pip3 -vvv show ipython

I just get:
Name: ipython
Version: 6.4.0
Summary: IPython: Productive Interactive Computing
Home-page: https://ipython.org
Author: The IPython Development Team
Author-email: ipython-...@python.org
License: BSD
Location: /usr/local/lib/python3.5/dist-packages
Requires: traitlets, decorator, pickleshare, backcall, prompt-toolkit, 
pexpect, jedi, simplegeneric, setuptools, pygments
Required-by: 
Metadata-Version: 2.0
Installer: pip
Classifiers:
  Framework :: IPython
  Intended Audience :: Developers
  Intended Audience :: Science/Research
  License :: OSI Approved :: BSD License
  Programming Language :: Python
  Programming Language :: Python :: 3
  Programming Language :: Python :: 3 :: Only
  Topic :: System :: Shells
Entry-points:
  [console_scripts]
  iptest = IPython.testing.iptestcontroller:main
  iptest3 = IPython.testing.iptestcontroller:main
  ipython = IPython:start_ipython
  ipython3 = IPython:start_ipython
  [pygments.lexers]
  ipython = IPython.lib.lexers:IPythonLexer
  ipython3 = IPython.lib.lexers:IPython3Lexer
  ipythonconsole = IPython.lib.lexers:IPythonConsoleLexer

-- 
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Senior Software Engineer
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/cecilwesterhof
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[issue10531] write tilted text in turtle

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

c.create_text(100, 100, angle=90.0, text='test text')
is a tclerror in 8.5 and works in 8.6.

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[issue33663] Web.py wsgiserver3.py raises TypeError when CSS file is not found

[Valeriya Sinevich]

Change by Valeriya Sinevich :


--
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pull_requests: +7361
stage:  -> patch review

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[issue33880] namedtuple should use NFKD to find duplicate members

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

See issue 33881 for the corresponding dataclasses issue.

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[issue33881] dataclasses should use NFKD to find duplicate members

[Eric V. Smith]

New submission from Eric V. Smith :

See issue 33880 for the same issue with namedtuple.

This shows up on dataclasses only through make_dataclass. This is an expected 
ValueError:

>>> make_dataclass('a', ['a', 'b', 'c', 'a'])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
1123, in make_dataclass
raise TypeError(f'Field name duplicated: {name!r}')
TypeError: Field name duplicated: 'a'

But this is a SyntaxError:

>>> make_dataclass('a', ['\u00b5', '\u03bc'])
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
1133, in make_dataclass
unsafe_hash=unsafe_hash, frozen=frozen)
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
958, in dataclass
return wrap(_cls)
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
950, in wrap
return _process_class(cls, init, repr, eq, order, unsafe_hash, frozen)
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
871, in _process_class
else 'self',
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
490, in _init_fn
return_type=None)
  File 
"/cygdrive/c/home/eric/.local/lib/python3.6/site-packages/dataclasses.py", line 
356, in _create_fn
exec(txt, globals, locals)
  File "", line 1
SyntaxError: duplicate argument 'μ' in function definition

--
assignee: eric.smith
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 319766
nosy: eric.smith
priority: low
severity: normal
status: open
title: dataclasses should use NFKD to find duplicate members
versions: Python 3.7

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[issue33880] namedtuple should use NFKD to find duplicate members

[Eric V. Smith]

Eric V. Smith  added the comment:

Not that it really matters to this issue, but here's how dataclasses and attrs 
deal with this:

dataclasses has the same issue, via make_dataclass().

attrs gives a syntax error with your field names, but interestingly this 
succeeds:

>>> Foo = attr,make_class('Foo', ['a', 'b', 'a'])
>>> Foo(1, 3)

I'll open a corresponding issue for dataclasses.
Foo(a=1, b=3)

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Gene Heskett]

On Saturday 16 June 2018 12:31:28 Jim Lee wrote:

> On 06/16/2018 08:36 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> > On 6/15/18 11:07 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
>  I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver. 
>  If the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in
>  color - otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a
>  hardware problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver
>  for the scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it
>  worked fine regardless of temperature.
> 
>  -Jim
> >
> > That sounds like it would probably be classified as a software issue
> > then (or possibly documentation). It could be hardware if the
> > Windows SCSI card didn't support something it was expected to or
> > perhaps indicated that it did, or didn't negotiate correctly.
> >
> > Ultimately, often the difference between a hardware error and a
> > software error is what the documentation says, I have seen more than
> > once a hardware document saying something like Feature A was
> > intended to work this way but the hardware doesn't work right to
> > implement it, so the software needs to do XYZ as a work around. So
> > now, if the software doesn't do XYZ it is a software error, all due
> > to a hardware design issue that was just redefined.
>
> It was a software issue that manifested itself as a hardware failure. 
> However, SCSI was such a temperamental beast to begin with that finger
> pointing usually took as much time as diagnosing the problems.
>
My finger never gets tired of pointing at the bean counter between 
engineering design and the production floor. And there has been a time 
or 3 over the last 70 years when the finger was loaded.
> -Jim



-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 
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[issue6717] Some problem with recursion handling

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I reran Dino's test.py on current master on Win10 and got 

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "f:/dev/tem/recursion_crash.py", line 23, in 
f()
  File "f:/dev/tem/recursion_crash.py", line 18, in f
f()
  File "f:/dev/tem/recursion_crash.py", line 18, in f
f()
  File "f:/dev/tem/recursion_crash.py", line 18, in f
f()
  [Previous line repeated 991 more times]
  File "f:/dev/tem/recursion_crash.py", line 17, in f
print(sys.getrecursionlimit())
RecursionError: maximum recursion depth exceeded while calling a Python object

The request for a fix to get a nice traceback is out of date.

When I run Gregor's tkinter_recursionbug_31.py, I immediately get this:

f:\dev\3x>python f:/dev/tem/tk_recbug.py
Running Debug|Win32 interpreter...
f:/dev/tem/tk_recbug.py:14: DeprecationWarning: invalid escape sequence \P
  """

The closet I came to reproducing this is
>>> eval(r"f'\P{1}'")

Warning (from warnings module):
  File "", line 1
DeprecationWarning: invalid escape sequence \P
'\\P1'

When I continue and move the red box, I eventually get

Fatal Python error: Cannot recover from stack overflow.

Current thread 0x12c8 (most recent call first):
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\enum.py", line 535 in __new__
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\enum.py", line 307 in __call__
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1431 in _substitute
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1701 in __call__
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1174 in update
  File "f:/dev/tem/tk_recbug.py", line 39 in move
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1702 in __call__
  File "F:\dev\3x\lib\tkinter\__init__.py", line 1174 in update
  
  ...

f:\dev\3x>

and the tk window disappears.  With pythonw, the tk window disappears with no 
feedback.

There is no Windows message box, so the request to not get one is fixed 
already.  There is a (truncated) traceback (without the code lines, but they 
are viewable in the source), so the requested to get one is also fulfilled.  
The only thing left is 'Fatal Python error'.  From Antoine's messages, the 
request to get a normal exception instead is "Won't fix unless someone has a 
bright new idea".

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Re: For specific keys , extract non empty values in a dictionary

[Peter Otten]

Ganesh Pal wrote:

> *How do I check  few specific/selected  keys in a dictionary and extract
> their values if they are not empty*

You mean not None.

> o_num  = {'one': 1,
>   'three': 3,
>   'bar': None,
>   'five' : 5,
>   'rum' : None,
>   'seven' : None,
>   'brandy': None,
>   'nine' : 9,
>   'gin': None}

> args_list = ["one","three","seven","nine"]

> *Output:*
> 
> *1 3 9*

>>> wanted = {"one", "three", "seven", "nine"}
>>> {k: o_num[k] for k in wanted & o_num.keys() if o_num[k] is not None}
{'one': 1, 'nine': 9, 'three': 3}

> I am a Python 2.7 user and on Linux box

You have to replace keys() with viewkeys() in Python 2.

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Re: Understanding memory location of Python variables

[MRAB]

On 2018-06-16 17:38, ip.b...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi everyone,

I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally contrary 
to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?


myName = "Kevin"
id(myName)

47406848

id(myName[0])

36308576

id(myName[1])

2476000

I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the myName 
variable itself. I also expected myName[1] to be located immediately after 
myName[0].

The 'id' function returns an integer ID for a value/object. The only 
guarantee is that no 2 values have the same ID at the same time.


It is _not_ an address.

myName is bound to the string "Kevin", and id(myName) tells you the ID 
of that string.


myName[0] returns the string "K", and id(myName[0]) tells you the ID of 
that string.


(As a side note, The CPython implementation, which is written in C, 
happens to use the address, but the Jython implementation, which is 
written in Java, doesn't.)

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Re: Understanding memory location of Python variables

[Joel Goldstick]

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 12:38 PM,   wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally contrary 
> to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?
>
 myName = "Kevin"
 id(myName)
> 47406848
 id(myName[0])
> 36308576
 id(myName[1])
> 2476000
>
> I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the myName 
> variable itself. I also expected myName[1] to be located immediately after 
> myName[0].
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Others can probably give a more complete explanation, but small
numbers, and apparently letters are cached since they are so common.

-- 
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http://joelgoldstick.com/blog
http://cc-baseballstats.info/stats/birthdays
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[issue33880] namedtuple should use NFKD to find duplicate members

[John Cooke]

New submission from John Cooke :

from collections import namedtuple
# create a namedtuple whose members are:
# 00B5;MICRO SIGN;Ll;
# 03BC;GREEK SMALL LETTER MU;Ll
# these are both legal identifier names
names = ['\u00b5', '\u03bc']
for name in names:
assert name.isidentifier()
mu = namedtuple('mu', names)

# should have raised ValueError, but instead get SyntaxError

--
components: Library (Lib)
messages: 319763
nosy: John Cooke
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: namedtuple should use NFKD to find duplicate members
type: behavior
versions: Python 3.8

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For specific keys , extract non empty values in a dictionary

[Ganesh Pal]

*How do I check  few specific/selected  keys in a dictionary and extract
their values if they are not empty*



*Example : Extract the values  for key "one","three","seven"  and "nine” if
they are not empty*



*Input :*

*o_num  = {'one': 1,*

*  'three': 3,*

*  'bar': None,*

*  'five' : 5,*

*  'rum' : None,*

*  'seven' : None,*

*  'brandy': None,*

*  'nine' : 9,*

*  'gin': None}*



*Output:*

*1 3 9*



Here is my solution , Please  review the below code and let me know your
suggestion .



#/usr/bin/python



o_num  = {'one': 1,

  'three': 3,

  'bar': None,

  'five' : 5,

  'rum' : None,

  'seven' : None,

  'brandy': None,

  'nine' : 9,

  'gin': None}





args_list = ["one","three","seven","nine"]



args_dict = dict( (k,v) for k, v in o_num.items() if v and k in args_list )



print args_dict



o/p:

root@X1:/Play_ground/DICT# python hello.py

{'nine': 9, 'three': 3, 'one': 1}





Also,  Is unpacking the elements in the o_num  dictionary as shown below
fine  or are there any other alternatives



arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4, = map(args_dict.get, ('one', 'three', 'seven',
'nine'))

print arg1, arg2, arg3, arg4





I am a Python 2.7 user and on Linux box



Regards,

Ganesh
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[issue33879] Item assignment in tuple mutates list despite throwing error

[Karthikeyan Singaravelan]

Karthikeyan Singaravelan  added the comment:

Interesting. I googled this and came across this note which covers this : 
https://docs.python.org/2/faq/programming.html#why-does-a-tuple-i-item-raise-an-exception-when-the-addition-works

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[issue33855] IDLE: Minimally test every non-startup module.

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:


New changeset 833b3d2dcc7043be20ac19f7821552fcb21f4365 by Terry Jan Reedy in 
branch '3.6':
[3.6] bpo-33855: Minimally test all IDLE modules. (GH-7689) (GH-7734)
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/833b3d2dcc7043be20ac19f7821552fcb21f4365


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[issue22571] Remove import * recommendations and examples in doc?

[Terry J. Reedy]

Terry J. Reedy  added the comment:

I am going to accept Raymond's rejection of a general change.  I will 
reconsider the tkinter doc should I ever work on it.

For IDLE code, I have settled on 'from tkinter import Tk, Text, ..., perhaps 
followed by 'from tkinter.ttk import Scrollbar, ...'.  But having alternate 
sources for many modules is a special case.  Listing each object is a bit more 
effort*, but I like knowing what is imported, from where after reading the 
module header. (* With complete tests, NameErrors quickly expose omissions.)

Carol, thank you for bumping this issue.

--
resolution:  -> rejected
stage: needs patch -> resolved
status: open -> closed
type:  -> enhancement

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Understanding memory location of Python variables

[ip . bcrs]

Hi everyone,

I'm intrigued by the output of the following code, which was totally contrary 
to my expectations. Can someone tell me what is happening?

>>> myName = "Kevin"
>>> id(myName)
47406848
>>> id(myName[0])
36308576
>>> id(myName[1])
2476000

I expected myName[0] to be located at the same memory location as the myName 
variable itself. I also expected myName[1] to be located immediately after 
myName[0].
-- 
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Re: Python list vs google group

[Jim Lee]

On 06/16/2018 08:36 AM, Richard Damon wrote:

On 6/15/18 11:07 PM, Jim Lee wrote:

[snip]

I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver for the
scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine
regardless of temperature.

-Jim

That sounds like it would probably be classified as a software issue
then (or possibly documentation). It could be hardware if the Windows
SCSI card didn't support something it was expected to or perhaps
indicated that it did, or didn't negotiate correctly.

Ultimately, often the difference between a hardware error and a software
error is what the documentation says, I have seen more than once a
hardware document saying something like Feature A was intended to work
this way but the hardware doesn't work right to implement it, so the
software needs to do XYZ as a work around. So now, if the software
doesn't do XYZ it is a software error, all due to a hardware design
issue that was just redefined.


It was a software issue that manifested itself as a hardware failure.  
However, SCSI was such a temperamental beast to begin with that finger 
pointing usually took as much time as diagnosing the problems.


-Jim


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[issue33876] doc Mention the MicroPython implementation in Introduction

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

I think your suggestion for Brython and Skulpt is excellent. I believe that 
it's important to point out that Python can be used client-side, and both your 
suggestions have been around for a while, are stable, and often used in large 
courses such as OpenEdX.

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[issue33876] doc Mention the MicroPython implementation in Introduction

[Andrés Delfino]

Andrés Delfino  added the comment:

What do you think about also mentioning Skulpt and Brython? On one hand, they 
-like MicroPython/CirtcuitPython- cover a focus no other implementation does 
(and a special one: client side Web scripting); but on the other hand, we 
shouldn't make space for everybody to add her/his pythonesque implementation.

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[issue33871] Possible integer overflow in iov_setup()

[Ned Deily]

Ned Deily  added the comment:

Test case:

import os
fo = open('/tmp/temp', 'wb')
fi = open('/tmp/temp', 'rb')
os.sendfile(fo.fileno(), fi.fileno(), 0, 0, headers=[b'x' * 2**16] * 2**15)

--
run against current master HEAD (2f9cbaa8b2190b6dfd3157ede9b6973523a3b939, as 
of 2018-06-15)
--with-pydebug
current macOS 10.13.5


64-bit Python

$ ./bin/python3.8 ~/Desktop/test_s.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "/Users/nad/Desktop/test_s.py", line 4, in 
   os.sendfile(fo.fileno(), fi.fileno(), 0, 0, headers=[b'x' * 2**16] * 2**15)
OSError: [Errno 38] Socket operation on non-socket
sys:1: ResourceWarning: unclosed file <_io.BufferedWriter name='/tmp/temp'>
sys:1: ResourceWarning: unclosed file <_io.BufferedReader name='/tmp/temp'>


32-bit Python

$ ./bin/python3.8-32 ~/Desktop/test_s.py
Fatal Python error: a function returned NULL without setting an error
SystemError:  returned NULL without setting an error

Current thread 0xa983a1c0 (most recent call first):
 File "/Users/nad/Desktop/test_s.py", line 4 in 
Abort trap: 6

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[issue31725] Turtle/tkinter: NameError crashes ipython with "Tcl_AsyncDelete: async handler deleted by the wrong thread"

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

Hi Rick,

I'm closing this issue as not reproducible. Thanks for filing it and using 
Turtle.

--
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resolution:  -> not a bug
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue33877] doc Mention Windows along UNIX for script running instructions

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


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[issue33877] doc Mention Windows along UNIX for script running instructions

[Ned Deily]

Change by Ned Deily :


--
components: +Windows
nosy: +paul.moore, steve.dower, tim.golden, zach.ware

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[issue23922] Refactor icon setting to a separate function for Turtle

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

I've updated the issue title to reflect Terry's comments and changed the stage 
to needs patch.

--
nosy: +willingc
stage: test needed -> needs patch
title: turtle.py and turtledemo use the default tkinter icon -> Refactor icon 
setting to a separate function for Turtle
versions:  -Python 3.6

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[issue29560] Turtle graphics fill behavior differs between versions

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

The next action for this issue would be to run the demo listed on Python 3.7 
and report the results back here. We can then document expected behavior if it 
differs.

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Re: Python list vs google group

[Richard Damon]

On 6/15/18 11:07 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
> 
> 
> On 06/15/2018 07:08 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On 6/15/18 9:00 PM, Jim Lee wrote:
>>>
>>> On 06/15/2018 05:00 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 4:52 AM, Rob Gaddi
  wrote:
> On 06/15/2018 11:44 AM, Larry Martell wrote:
>> My favorite acronym of all time is TWAIN
>>
> Really?  I always thought it didn't scan.
>
 Having spent way WAY too many hours trying to turn documents into
 images (and text), I very much appreciate that laugh.

 ChrisA
>>> I once had a Mustek color scanner that came with a TWAIN driver.  If
>>> the room temperature was above 80 degrees F, it would scan in color -
>>> otherwise, only black & white.  I was *sure* it was a hardware
>>> problem, but then someone released a native Linux driver for the
>>> scanner.  When I moved the scanner to my Linux box, it worked fine
>>> regardless of temperature.
>>>
>>> -Jim
>> There actually may still have been a hardware issue, likely something
>> marginal in the timing on the cable. (Timing changing with temperature).
>> It would take a detailed look, and a fine reading of specs, to see if
>> the Windows Driver was to spec, and the hardware is marginal (but the
>> Linux driver didn't push the unit to full speed and got around the
>> issue), of if the Windows driver broke some specification but still sort
>> of worked, especially if things were warm, while the Linux driver did it
>> right.
>>
> You are exactly right.  It was so long ago that I forgot some of the
> details, but it boiled down to the TWAIN driver pushing the SCSI bus out
> of spec.   I remember looking at the bus on a scope, measuring pulse
> widths, and playing with terminator values to try to optimize rise
> times.  I don't believe it used the Windows SCSI driver at all, but
> instead drove the scanner directly (I could be remembering wrong).
> 
> -Jim
> 

That sounds like it would probably be classified as a software issue
then (or possibly documentation). It could be hardware if the Windows
SCSI card didn't support something it was expected to or perhaps
indicated that it did, or didn't negotiate correctly.

Ultimately, often the difference between a hardware error and a software
error is what the documentation says, I have seen more than once a
hardware document saying something like Feature A was intended to work
this way but the hardware doesn't work right to implement it, so the
software needs to do XYZ as a work around. So now, if the software
doesn't do XYZ it is a software error, all due to a hardware design
issue that was just redefined.
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[issue26571] turtle regression in 3.5

[Carol Willing]

Change by Carol Willing :


--
stage:  -> needs patch

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[issue27461] Optimize PNGs

[Carol Willing]

Change by Carol Willing :


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stage:  -> patch review

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[issue24990] Foreign language support in turtle module

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

A good next step with this issue would be to look at the languages mentioned in 
the devguide experts page 
(https://devguide.python.org/experts/#documentation-translations) with people 
interested in translations

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[issue14117] Turtledemo: exception and minor glitches.

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

Hi @terry.reedy,

I'm triaging open "turtle" issues. What do you think would be a reasonable next 
step for this issue? Perhaps: a contributor runs the demo and reports back here 
with the current behavior experienced.

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[issue23660] Turtle left/right inverted when using different coordinates orientation

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

Hi aroberge,

Thanks for filing this issue.

I'm triaging all of the open 'turtle' issues. I'm closing this issue since 
introducing this suggested change would impact teaching materials and resources 
that have already been published. This would be a change that would break 
compatibility.

I've marked the resolution as "Remind" if someone in the future wishes to open 
a documentation issue.

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nosy: +willingc
resolution:  -> remind
stage:  -> resolved
status: open -> closed

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[issue10531] write tilted text in turtle

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

This would be a fun feature to add. The next step on this issue would be to 
determine if this can be accomplished with Tk 8.6.

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nosy: +willingc
versions: +Python 3.8 -Python 3.5

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[issue21077] Turtle Circle Speed 0

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

The next step on this issue would be to test if this behavior is still present 
in Python 3.6 and 3.7 and report the result of your test here.

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[issue33879] Item assignment in tuple mutates list despite throwing error

[njayinthehouse]

New submission from njayinthehouse :

Seems like a bug.

>>> a = (1, [1])
>>> a[1] += [2]
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
TypeError: 'tuple' object does not support item assignment
>>> a
(1, [1, 2])

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messages: 319748
nosy: njayinthehouse
priority: normal
severity: normal
status: open
title: Item assignment in tuple mutates list despite throwing error
type: behavior
versions: Python 2.7, Python 3.4, Python 3.5

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[issue16428] turtle with compound shape doesn't get clicks

[Carol Willing]

Carol Willing  added the comment:

This issue is "new contributor"-friendly.

The next steps would be to apply the patch to a recent version of Python 3, 
check if tests run cleanly, and if the patch resolves the issue.

I'm sorry ingrid that the patch review languished on the issue tracker.

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versions: +Python 3.6 -Python 2.7, Python 3.2

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