Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Hi Phill, I produced a couple of Trump card clones in the 80's and still have the PCB designs at hand, so drawing up a schematic will not be difficult. If you can mail me the PLD dumps I'll label and comment the equations for you. I did this myself, but cannot locate the files any more. Cheers Malcolm On 21/02/2011 11:22, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: Hi all, I'm currently trying to modify the MESS source so that it's QL driver supports floppies by emulating the Trump Card. I have the actual disk access working and am able to access and load files from an image of a QL disk. However the emulated card will only see 640K of memory, I have managed to work out that the trump card plays some tricks with memory mapping. It seems initially the ROM is mapped in to both $C and $1, the QDOS start up routine finds the rom at $C, and calls it's initialisation routine at $C011E, which promptly does a jump to $10124, and continues execution from there. It seems that the trump card hardware maps out the copy of the ROM at $C, and maps the RAM into that area on any read from the $1-$17FFF area. This means that the QDOS ram test only finds ram up until $B, and so sets it to 640K (in the emulation). On the real machine it finds the full 896K, so must be finding RAM in the $C-$F area, so the trump card hardware must initially allow access to the RAM, before the ROM is mapped in, but I have no clue as to how this is achieved. Does anyone have any clues, or better still know how it actually works ? I have started tracing the trump cards circuitry, but there are two programable logic chips (PAL1 and PAL2v2), which though I have dumped, when I decompile them the logic makes no sense to me :( Has anyone worked out the logic for these ? Next step I guess will be to hook up the PALs to a microcontroler and probe all combinations of inputs and record outputs. Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Malcolm Lear wrote: Hi Phill, I produced a couple of Trump card clones in the 80's and still have the PCB designs at hand, so drawing up a schematic will not be difficult. Excellent :) If you can mail me the PLD dumps I'll label and comment the equations for you. I did this myself, but cannot locate the files any more. Sure, (I'll send them off list, not sure what atachement policy is for this list) I'm not that sure how accurate they are, my device reader only knows about TI 16L8s, whereas the ones on my TC are national semi. When I ran them through jed2eqn I ended up with things like output = i1 !i1 # vcc Which didn't seem very helpful :( :( Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Ah, that brings all the memories back. I'm sure the chips were protected and I had to switch all combinations of input to deduce the equations. The good news is that I can lay my hands on a board I manufactured and read back the equations from that. Unfortunately the earliest I can do that is next week. I seem to remember that initially the ROM is mirrored and access to a particular range of addresses (the jump) switches it out replacing it with RAM. Cheers Malcolm On 21/02/2011 14:03, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: Malcolm Lear wrote: Hi Phill, I produced a couple of Trump card clones in the 80's and still have the PCB designs at hand, so drawing up a schematic will not be difficult. Excellent :) If you can mail me the PLD dumps I'll label and comment the equations for you. I did this myself, but cannot locate the files any more. Sure, (I'll send them off list, not sure what atachement policy is for this list) I'm not that sure how accurate they are, my device reader only knows about TI 16L8s, whereas the ones on my TC are national semi. When I ran them through jed2eqn I ended up with things like output = i1 !i1 # vcc Which didn't seem very helpful :( :( Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Malcolm Lear wrote: Ah, that brings all the memories back. I'm sure the chips were protected and I had to switch all combinations of input to deduce the equations. I did wonder about that :) :) I may have a go at hooking them up to an AVR and getting it to scan and record for me :) :) The good news is that I can lay my hands on a board I manufactured and read back the equations from that. Excellent. Unfortunately the earliest I can do that is next week. No probs. I seem to remember that initially the ROM is mirrored and access to a particular range of addresses (the jump) switches it out replacing it with RAM. Indeed, I have worked out this much, however I think the RAM test takes place before this point so will hit the mirrored rom and only see 640K :( So there must be something else afoot :) Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: Indeed, I have worked out this much, however I think the RAM test takes place before this point so will hit the mirrored rom and only see 640K :( So there must be something else afoot :) RAM test is pretty much the first thing the OS does, long before initializing the ROMs. The ROM will probably patch the RAMTOP system variable to the new value or something like that. Marcel ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Since the RAM on a standard QL was only ever intended to extend up to $B, would the test ever go beyond that. Cheers Malcolm On 21/02/2011 14:50, Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: Malcolm Lear wrote: Ah, that brings all the memories back. I'm sure the chips were protected and I had to switch all combinations of input to deduce the equations. I did wonder about that :) :) I may have a go at hooking them up to an AVR and getting it to scan and record for me :) :) The good news is that I can lay my hands on a board I manufactured and read back the equations from that. Excellent. Unfortunately the earliest I can do that is next week. No probs. I seem to remember that initially the ROM is mirrored and access to a particular range of addresses (the jump) switches it out replacing it with RAM. Indeed, I have worked out this much, however I think the RAM test takes place before this point so will hit the mirrored rom and only see 640K :( So there must be something else afoot :) Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Malcolm Lear wrote: Since the RAM on a standard QL was only ever intended to extend up to $B, would the test ever go beyond that. Yep it does, loop only stops when it finds a location where it gets a different value back than it wrote. Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Trump Card questions
Marcel Kilgus wrote: Phill Harvey-Smith wrote: Indeed, I have worked out this much, however I think the RAM test takes place before this point so will hit the mirrored rom and only see 640K :( So there must be something else afoot :) RAM test is pretty much the first thing the OS does, long before initializing the ROMs. The ROM will probably patch the RAMTOP system variable to the new value or something like that. I may check in mess for the RAMTOP being modified / accessed by the TC rom, if it does thaen that would probably be the explanation, but however this should also work on the emulation as I do the pageswap when the $1 page code starts to be executed. Cheers. Phill. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
Hi all, After a bit of back and forth, it looks like I will be assembling the remaining stock of Tony Firshman's Mplane. If it happens, they will be available in about 2-3 months. For those that don't remember, the MPlane offers 3 expansion ports and has a 4-pin power connector to take power from a standard AT power supply. It also has a ROM port. This design is great for fitting in smaller cases because it folds back on the QL in a very slimline way. However, AT cases and power supplies are not the easiest to find, and don't have the best form factors any more. There are some interesting slimline and lightweight ATX cases available. I have been asked if it would be possible to do an ATX version or adaptor for this type of backplane. This came up in 2002-3 too, so the need must be even stronger now. My thinking is that many might like this within the QL community, and it would certainly be useful in many other applications so we can have our parts subsidised by wider sales - as with the battery adaptor PCB. Is there much interest in this? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Lee Privett lee.priv...@gmail.com wrote: Dave, it my help those like me with less knowledge of such things to know exactly what QL'ers could make use of a back plane for, plugging in additional peripherals such as floppy drive adapter are already realised with through connections on the memory unit. A backplane allows you to place each card in its own slot. It multiplies the QL's expansion port into three, four or more ports. This means cards don't need to use through-connectors. It also allows them to be powered by an external power supply, if you have so many cards that they strain the QL power supply. This is especially helpful if you have a Gold Card, SGC or Aurora... Imagine a Gold Card in a slot, a QubIDE in one slot, and still having a slot free. Backplanes are usually used if you remove your QL circuit board from the original case and put it in a regular PC case. There are different formats of backplane that allow you to place your QL in a different case - usually an older AT computer case with an AT power supply. AT power supplies have a ON/OFF switch to operate the PSU directly. ATX power supplies are more complicated. They are switched on an off electronically by a control signal from the computer's circuit board - circuitry QLs and most pre-1995 computers do not have. The switch is connected to the computer, and is a momentary switch. It tells the computer that a power toggle was requested, and the computer PCCB can refer to its internal settings to decide what to do. This allows the computer to shut itself down, and to define whether the computer should stay off or turn on after a power failure. There are no QL backplanes which work with ATX power supplies, because they lack that power control circuitry. There is a good description of ATX power and control here: http://pinouts.ru/Power/atx_v2_pinout.shtml Taking power from pin 9 (5VSB) we can operate a bistable flip-flop which is operated by a momentary switch, and feeds the flip-flop's output to pin 16 (/PS_ON). In plain English, a bistable flip-flip is a circuit that, when triggered, changes state then stays in that state until triggered again. So each time you press the switch, the output changes from 1 to 0 or from 0 to 1. Feeding this back to the control circuit of the power supply allows the power supply to turn on and off all the other power outputs as required. The circuit to control this is so trivial, it should really be used in all new designs where a PSU may be needed. Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Adrian Ives adr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Yes, the ATX connector (or better) is a must. You probably want to look into an adapter lead that also bridges the Power Good signal, otherwise you won't get the PSU to switch on. This is what I had to do with my QPlanes in ATX cases. Hehe, this. When you solved that problem, what did you bridge it to? I just shunted it through a resistor to ground in my prototype, as the PSUs I tested only provided 5V at 10-20mA. And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
A backplane allows you to place each card in its own slot. It multiplies the QL's expansion port into three, four or more ports. This means cards don't Didn't Sinclair ROMs have a bug preventing usage of all expansion slots except for the first one? Daniele ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:40 PM, JJ Ruiz jjruiz_r...@yahoo.es wrote: I would get one to connect an Aurora and a Gold Card, powering them through the backplane. The 9V line, will carry 9V? or 5V? or it will be selectable? or it will be selectable by each expansion connector? ATX v2 PSUs supply +5V and +/i12V. It is perfectly possible to supply +9V from a +12V line using a 7809... Depending on the current requirement, this could supply up to 2 amps, but would generate a fair amount of heat. For smaller values like 500mA it wouldn't generate much or need a heatsink. Is the 9V for serial? Or to feed 5V cards that have a 7805 regulator? Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
Dave Park wrote, on 21/Feb/11 19:04 | Feb21: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Adrian Ivesadr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Yes, the ATX connector (or better) is a must. You probably want to look into an adapter lead that also bridges the Power Good signal, otherwise you won't get the PSU to switch on. This is what I had to do with my QPlanes in ATX cases. Hehe, this. When you solved that problem, what did you bridge it to? I just shunted it through a resistor to ground in my prototype, as the PSUs I tested only provided 5V at 10-20mA. Yes - that is what I do, and a ground is right next door! And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Oh yes there is - a wet tongue (8-)# Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
Dave Park wrote, on 21/Feb/11 19:45 | Feb21: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:40 PM, JJ Ruizjjruiz_r...@yahoo.es wrote: I would get one to connect an Aurora and a Gold Card, powering them through the backplane. The 9V line, will carry 9V? or 5V? or it will be selectable? or it will be selectable by each expansion connector? ATX v2 PSUs supply +5V and +/i12V. It is perfectly possible to supply +9V from a +12V line using a 7809... Depending on the current requirement, this could supply up to 2 amps, but would generate a fair amount of heat. For smaller values like 500mA it wouldn't generate much or need a heatsink. Is the 9V for serial? Or to feed 5V cards that have a 7805 regulator? The latter. I simply solder a two pin plug across the outer pins of the expansion card 7805 and us an HD style jumper - and a BIG label saying Check 9v!. Mind you it is amazing how long an SGC will survive (8-)# It took a little while to recover, but has worked fine ever since. BTW SGC has an external connector for 5V power. I have solder jumpered *all* of mine. The through contact when not used was very dodgy indeed, especially once the socket had been used. The best and most stable solution with the QL motherboard is to jumper all cards, and to connect the 5V to the 9V rail on the QL motherboard. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
Dave Park wrote, on 21/Feb/11 19:41 | Feb21: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Daniele Terdinadanieleterd...@hotmail.com wrote: A backplane allows you to place each card in its own slot. It multiplies the QL's expansion port into three, four or more ports. This means cards don't Didn't Sinclair ROMs have a bug preventing usage of all expansion slots except for the first one? I do recall using a QubIDE and SuperQBoard on a JM ROM QL without problems, but I think there are specific reasons for that. Maybe someone with more knowledge than myself can reply? I also don't recall such a problem. The JM did have a bug where Basic loaded RESPR extensions were not recognised in the 'boot' program, which is why boots in my commercial programs had simply LRUN driveboot1. Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Daniele Terdina danieleterd...@hotmail.com wrote: Didn't Sinclair ROMs have a bug preventing usage of all expansion slots except for the first one? Being a re-newbie I also have (I hope!) a few related questions : This might be a FAQ so apologies in advance if this subject has been beaten to a painful death many times before Is the section Peripheral ROM problem in chapter 9 of The Sinclair QDOS Companion still relevant? Andrew Pennell outlines a procedure to work around the early QDOS bug where only the first peripheral routine is discovered. Should this workaround still be applied to make sure all peripheral drivers get initialized properly? Does the workaround actually *break* things with newer QDOS versions and more recent peripherals? Cheers, Petri ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
Am 21.02.2011 21:47, schrieb Petri Pellinen: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Daniele Terdina danieleterd...@hotmail.com wrote: Didn't Sinclair ROMs have a bug preventing usage of all expansion slots except for the first one? Being a re-newbie I also have (I hope!) a few related questions : This might be a FAQ so apologies in advance if this subject has been beaten to a painful death many times before Is the section Peripheral ROM problem in chapter 9 of The Sinclair QDOS Companion still relevant? Andrew Pennell outlines a procedure to work around the early QDOS bug where only the first peripheral routine is discovered. Should this workaround still be applied to make sure all peripheral drivers get initialized properly? Does the workaround actually *break* things with newer QDOS versions and more recent peripherals? Quite an interesting question, just a wild guess on it: Well, I don't have the Pennel book, so don't know his recipe - But would expect he recommends scanning the potential expansion port ROM start candidates for a valid ROM header and mimicking the correct initialisation sequence (i.e calling initialisation routine at x+6 and linking in Basic procedures at x+4. So what could go wrong: Waste of memory - All drivers need to allocate at least a 40+ bytes driver linkage block plus any additional scratchpad memory they need. So if you initialize a driver twice, memory of the first is potentially lost. (The driver as such won't be called twice, because drivers may very well shadow each other, only the first one that tells the system it has recognized its device name will actualy be called (This is one of the mechanisms used by the PE to 'hide' the original con_ driver) Waste of CPU: Drivers linking in a polling or scheduler loop might very well do that twice, same for an external interrupt routine. Polling or scheduler loops just waste CPU. External interrupt routines hooked in twice shouldn't hurt (but probably wasting CPU as well), as an interrupt routine should really clear the interrupt source befor it returns. BTW all of the link traps have no failure exit - they will just link in whatever routine they're asked for. Same goes with SuperBASIC extensions - just a waste of memory - the last one hides the others. This would be one typical usage of a thing: When a driver is initialized, it could check for existance of its correspondent thing and gracefully exits without further initialisation if it's already there. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
At 19:33 21/02/2011 +, you wrote: Only in the JM and previous rom versions. From JS onwards I believe it works as it's supposed to. Certainly Minerva and MG tested each 16k ROM slot when I made my 256k EPROM expansion card Incidently I mapped the floppy drive code in that slot freom 64k upwards. I jave done many odd things in the hardware field that folk may be interested in. But when two people here asked for pics I find myself dismayed at their responses. One came back instantly with Oh no it isnt., the other to four emails gave no substantive reply save one to explain why it doesn't work. They both come across as experts and I was just an shamateur bodger. I did tread , I think, a an unusual trail through computing and have for some time have been thinking of writing it up with illustrations (crippling limitation of this board.) Not to forget the backplanes. My own solution was not planar, more like a crooked spine., in effect a 2 or 3 way expansion. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On Feb 21, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Tony Firshman t...@firshman.co.uk wrote: Dave Park wrote, on 21/Feb/11 19:04 | Feb21: On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 12:59 PM, Adrian Ivesadr...@acanthis.co.uk wrote: Yes, the ATX connector (or better) is a must. You probably want to look into an adapter lead that also bridges the Power Good signal, otherwise you won't get the PSU to switch on. This is what I had to do with my QPlanes in ATX cases. Hehe, this. When you solved that problem, what did you bridge it to? I just shunted it through a resistor to ground in my prototype, as the PSUs I tested only provided 5V at 10-20mA. Yes - that is what I do, and a ground is right next door! And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Oh yes there is - a wet tongue. Oh really? Wet tongued heal. Fried QLs do not self-repair. ;) Dave ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On 22/02/2011 00:12, Dave Park wrote: On Feb 21, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Tony Firshmant...@firshman.co.uk wrote: And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Oh yes there is - a wet tongue. Oh really? Wet tongued heal. Fried QLs do not self-repair. ;) Though prolly not if they've had 40A @ 12V (480W) through them... Mind TBH, if I where powering QL+addons from an ATX I'd prolly put apropreatly rated fuses in the cables between PSU and computer, after all the sorts of currents that an AT/ATX PSU can supply could under fault conditions cause the QL board to catch fire without ever over strainging the PSU.. Common misconception: fuses are there to prevent shocks, they're not they're there to melt/blow and break the circuit before it can become damaged / catch fire. Cheers. Phill. -- Phill Harvey-Smith, Programmer, Hardware hacker, and general eccentric ! You can twist perceptions, but reality won't budge -- Rush. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
On Feb 21, 2011, at 6:27 PM, Phill Harvey-Smith a...@aurigae.demon.co.uk wrote: On 22/02/2011 00:12, Dave Park wrote: On Feb 21, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Tony Firshmant...@firshman.co.uk wrote: And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Oh yes there is - a wet tongue. Oh really? Wet tongued heal. Fried QLs do not self-repair. ;) Though prolly not if they've had 40A @ 12V (480W) through them... Mind TBH, if I where powering QL+addons from an ATX I'd prolly put apropreatly rated fuses in the cables between PSU and computer, after all the sorts of currents that an AT/ATX PSU can supply could under fault conditions cause the QL board to catch fire without ever over strainging the PSU.. Common misconception: fuses are there to prevent shocks, they're not they're there to melt/blow and break the circuit before it can become damaged / catch fire. Indeed. It is always best to ensure a weak point in the circuit is one you can replace for less than 50p. Dave. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] [ql-users] Backplanes...
All this talk is making hunger for an SGC not having seen or used before, are there really none out there or not ever being made? Lee - Back to the QL- On 22/02/2011 00:12, Dave Park wrote: On Feb 21, 2011, at 2:02 PM, Tony Firshmant...@firshman.co.uk wrote: And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Oh yes there is - a wet tongue. Oh really? Wet tongued heal. Fried QLs do not self-repair. ;) Though prolly not if they've had 40A @ 12V (480W) through them... Mind TBH, if I where powering QL+addons from an ATX I'd prolly put apropreatly rated fuses in the cables between PSU and computer, after all the sorts of currents that an AT/ATX PSU can supply could under fault conditions cause the QL board to catch fire without ever over strainging the PSU.. Common misconception: fuses are there to prevent shocks, they're not they're there to melt/blow and break the circuit before it can become damaged / catch fire. QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Ql-Users Digest, Vol 84, Issue 81
On 2/21/2011 7:51 PM, ql-users-requ...@lists.q-v-d.com wrote: snip And, have a good insulating backing plate, because there's nothing worse than 40 amps of 12V shorting onto something metal in the case, or worse, to something on a PCB... Oh yes there is - a wet tongue (8-)# Tony BETTER, one of the kids wet tongue! :-) (Psst, they still remember that little lesson in life) -- Paul Holmgren Mine: 2 57 300-C's in Indy Hers: 05 PT GT R/T HO Stage 1 Hoosier Corps L#6 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
