Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
In message 4e921069.4000...@lingula.org.uk, Stephen Usher st...@lingula.org.uk writes On 07/10/2011 19:48, Malcolm Cadman wrote: With, the QL, at the time of manufacture, it was the lack of a floppy disk drive (in favour of the micro drives). Erm, yes, there was the lack of a floppy drive, but then there was the foolish decision of make the over-worked keyboard controller chip also do sound and RS232 receiving. It wouldn't have cost much more per unit to put a proper DART in the machine to handle the serial communications. Basically, Sir Clive wasn't like Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was a perfectionist with an eye for detail. Sir Clive has lots of ideas, most of which involve either making things smaller (even to the detriment of their function) and electric vehicles. He gets bored quickly and wants to move on and sell things before they're properly ready for market. Steve Jobs also had his flaws, we all do, but putting half-baked ideas into market wasn't one of them. Steve Yes, it became an if only, with Sir Clive ... if only he had done this or done that . On the whole, Steve Jobs, did a good job with most of the products he brought to market. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
Morning Tony, ... The QL was quite the reverse - it was so trouble-prone it *demanded* tinkering at every level. That is what made (and makes) it so attractive, and gave Quanta its name - Isn't QL Users and Tinkerers Assocation? It is indeed the source of the name. The Sinclair kit always came with a decent sized manual which explained things like the screen format, the system variables and so on. All the information you needed was there - maybe not described as well as it could be, but it was there. Now, scroll forward to Windows XP, for example, and what do you get? a tiny little booklet, of no use what-so-ever, with the most important bit of information buried in the small print on page 19 (I wonder how many people got that far in reading it?) which states that your administrator user is set up without a password. That would be the one that gets caught within 10 minutes of connecting to the internet then? Linux systems are a little different, the information is there, but as Linux runs on so many different hardware platforms, it's unlikely that there will ever be the hardware details for tinkering - but at least the OS is well (ok, possibly nearly well) documented. Sinclair was the best, from the ZX81 (In my case) through the Spectrum to the QL, all came with excellent manuals. Just my £0.02. Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
On 10/10/2011 07:45, Norman Dunbar wrote: The Sinclair kit always came with a decent sized manual which explained things like the screen format, the system variables and so on. All the information you needed was there - maybe not described as well as it could be, but it was there. Not always. Once the ZX Spectrum+ came out the manual had been shrunk to almost nothing. It was practically a guide to plugging it in, switching it on and loading a game from tape. Now, scroll forward to Windows XP, for example, and what do you get? a tiny little booklet, of no use what-so-ever, with the most important bit of information buried in the small print on page 19 (I wonder how many people got that far in reading it?) which states that your administrator user is set up without a password. That would be the one that gets caught within 10 minutes of connecting to the internet then? Microsfot always thought that you should pay extra for any information. As for XP being 0w3d withn 10 minutes, yes, that was a major silliness, but only affected the Home edition. Basically, up until Vista Microsoft didn't see any business advantage in taking security seriously. They could sell more units by making things easier even if this was to the ultimate detriment of the security of the system. (e.g. Microsoft Outlook pre-opening documents in e-mails as they came in, even before you read them.) Linux systems are a little different, the information is there, but as Linux runs on so many different hardware platforms, it's unlikely that there will ever be the hardware details for tinkering - but at least the OS is well (ok, possibly nearly well) documented. Actually, with Linux half the information *ISN'T* there as either the coders thought it was obvious or they were too lazy to document it. Even when documentation is there it's often so out of date to be useless or is very poorly written by someone who hasn't a clue about technical writing. Sinclair was the best, from the ZX81 (In my case) through the Spectrum to the QL, all came with excellent manuals. Just my £0.02. Actually, Acorn were just as good in this respect. The BBC manual was an excellent primer. The Advanced User Guide actually went way beyond the Sinclair manuals, but it cost money. The whole bedroom coding thing came from the manuals rather than the specific hardware, in my opinion. This is why I was a little dismayed when the Raspberry Pi project decided to drop the idea of commissioning a tutorial and technical manual to go with the device. Steve ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
Morning Steve, Not always. Once the ZX Spectrum+ came out the manual had been shrunk to almost nothing. It was practically a guide to plugging it in, switching it on and loading a game from tape. I never had a Spectrum+, was that actually Sinclair or had Amstrad taken over by then? I can't remember. Microsfot always thought that you should pay extra for any information. Indeed! As for XP being 0w3d withn 10 minutes, yes, that was a major silliness, but only affected the Home edition. Again, I'm not 100% sure, but my Pentium 4 Sony Vaio had the blank password and I'm sure that came with XP Professional installed. I could be wrong as I eventually wiped it completely and re-installed OpenSuse on the entire disc rather than as a dual boot. Actually, with Linux half the information *ISN'T* there as either the coders thought it was obvious or they were too lazy to document it. This may be true, and I agree. But at least you have the source code as well to look through. Now I agree that not everyone wants to. But it's there if they do. Even when documentation is there it's often so out of date to be useless or is very poorly written by someone who hasn't a clue about technical writing. This is the case with everything software in my experience! Sadly, I also write documentation - and mine is currently out of date as well! :-( Actually, Acorn were just as good in this respect. The BBC manual was an excellent primer. The Advanced User Guide actually went way beyond the Sinclair manuals, but it cost money. I never had one, so I'm unable to comment. I occasionally used one at College, but I never saw the manuals. The whole bedroom coding thing came from the manuals rather than the specific hardware, in my opinion. This is why I was a little dismayed when the Raspberry Pi project decided to drop the idea of commissioning a tutorial and technical manual to go with the device. Bad news! And kind of defeats the purpose of the Pi - to encourage the bedroom coder habit! Cheers, Norm. -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
On Oct 10, at 09:43 | Oct10, Stephen Usher wrote: On 09/10/2011 23:37, Tony Firshman wrote: Nope - all they needed to do was to program it better. Laurence Reeves proved with Hermes you could get working code with the 8049. It's only issue was it was not fast enough to get a true 19200 input throughput. Ok it was a relatively slow serial port but perfectly good enough at the time when BBSs were V23. It even coped with V22bis perfectly well a few years later (at 2400). Except when the chip had to do sound as well. Indeed, but the QLs sound was never worth listening to (8-)# Putting a dedicated chip in there would have made the system far more flexible and able to go way beyond 19200 baud. Not only this but a proper serial chip would have had hardware buffering and would have been able to have been fully interrupt driven rather than polling. Steve Jobs also had his flaws, we all do, but putting half-baked ideas into market wasn't one of them. … but his philosophy with *all* his products was not to aid tinkering. Iphone especially is very very difficult to modify at firmware level. He even up to recently made it a puzzle even to *open* the products. It is a great step forward that not only are the Macbooks now openable, but there are official instructions on how to replace RAM and HD. Battery though has dire warnings not to meddle, even if one removes the screwed on back. The QL was quite the reverse - it was so trouble-prone it *demanded* tinkering at every level. That is what made (and makes) it so attractive, and gave Quanta its name - Isn't QL Users and Tinkerers Assocation? This is indeed his biggest flaw, and it started with the Macintosh. Mind you 'flaw' depends on where you are standing. From his point of view it was the key to success. It meant people were sucked into a Mac only environment. It happened to me. I bought an HTC Desire as Iphone had no hardware radio. It has internet radio of course, at maybe 30mb plus per hour! The irony is that Iphone has the same broadcom chip with radio hardware, but Apple did not implement FM. It is for Macbook use and I even took my Macbook. Of course it failed - the Mac could not use the HTC modem at all. What phone will be compatible for my use - none was the reply, so I got my money back and bought an Iphone. The irony is I am pleased, even without an FM radio. Steve Jobs won. They make supremely good products both at hardware and OS level. I can't easily tinker (but I do of course!). … and I run the QL on my Macbook, via VMware XP and Qemulator. Qemulator successfully reads the USB floppy, once I realised it was B: (8-)# Mind you it is confusing, as XP *seems* to access the drive as A:, much as it does with a standard floppy cable. I must try the native OS X application! Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
En/Je/On 2011-10-10 10:07, Norman Dunbar escribió / skribis / wrote : I never had a Spectrum+, was that actually Sinclair or had Amstrad taken over by then? I can't remember. ZX Spectrum+ (1984-10) was Sinclair's, just a normal ZX Spectrum with a QL style keyboard and a reset button. The ZX Spectrum 128 (1985-09), was developed in conjunction with Sinclair's Spanish distributor, Investrónica. The ZX Spectrum +2 (1986), was the first one by Amstrad. Marcos -- http://programandala.net ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
On 07/10/2011 19:48, Malcolm Cadman wrote: With, the QL, at the time of manufacture, it was the lack of a floppy disk drive (in favour of the micro drives). Erm, yes, there was the lack of a floppy drive, but then there was the foolish decision of make the over-worked keyboard controller chip also do sound and RS232 receiving. It wouldn't have cost much more per unit to put a proper DART in the machine to handle the serial communications. Basically, Sir Clive wasn't like Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was a perfectionist with an eye for detail. Sir Clive has lots of ideas, most of which involve either making things smaller (even to the detriment of their function) and electric vehicles. He gets bored quickly and wants to move on and sell things before they're properly ready for market. Steve Jobs also had his flaws, we all do, but putting half-baked ideas into market wasn't one of them. Steve ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
On 07/10/2011 20:05, peet vanpeebles wrote: To be fair Apple products have a had a checkered reliability as well. I've fixed a number of ibooks. Not mention the faults with older ipods or phones with no signal. Or the top of range liquid cooled G5s that were prone to leaking. Ebay is awash with spares or repair Apple equipment. Sir Clive made some shonky stuff in his time but never charged 1000s. If you pay a few thousand for a computer I'd expect more than a 1 year warranty. Again, to be fair, this is the same with *ALL* manufacturer's kit at the moment. The same factories in China that make Apples make Dells and HPs etc. Having said that, and dealing day-to-day with a large number of people with a large number of types and manufacture of machines, the Apple machines, like for like, are about the same price as an equivalent corporate Dell and are, in general, better put together and reliable. They all fail but on the whole the Apples are slightly better. They're also (mostly) a darn sight easier to repair and get parts for as the models don't change as often as their PC counterparts. They are nice to use and I own a few myself but I think it's more about the branding, image and selling a lifestyle. Actually, there's some of that but they just don't play in the bargain basement, where ASUS, Acer etc. fail to make money. Steve ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
On Oct 9, at 22:21 | Oct9, Stephen Usher wrote: On 07/10/2011 19:48, Malcolm Cadman wrote: With, the QL, at the time of manufacture, it was the lack of a floppy disk drive (in favour of the micro drives). Erm, yes, there was the lack of a floppy drive, but then there was the foolish decision of make the over-worked keyboard controller chip also do sound and RS232 receiving. It wouldn't have cost much more per unit to put a proper DART in the machine to handle the serial communications. Nope - all they needed to do was to program it better. Laurence Reeves proved with Hermes you could get working code with the 8049. It's only issue was it was not fast enough to get a true 19200 input throughput. Ok it was a relatively slow serial port but perfectly good enough at the time when BBSs were V23. It even coped with V22bis perfectly well a few years later (at 2400). Basically, Sir Clive wasn't like Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was a perfectionist with an eye for detail. Sir Clive has lots of ideas, most of which involve either making things smaller (even to the detriment of their function) and electric vehicles. He gets bored quickly and wants to move on and sell things before they're properly ready for market. Steve Jobs also had his flaws, we all do, but putting half-baked ideas into market wasn't one of them. … but his philosophy with *all* his products was not to aid tinkering. Iphone especially is very very difficult to modify at firmware level. He even up to recently made it a puzzle even to *open* the products. It is a great step forward that not only are the Macbooks now openable, but there are official instructions on how to replace RAM and HD. Battery though has dire warnings not to meddle, even if one removes the screwed on back. The QL was quite the reverse - it was so trouble-prone it *demanded* tinkering at every level. That is what made (and makes) it so attractive, and gave Quanta its name - Isn't QL Users and Tinkerers Assocation? Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
On Oct 9, at 22:28 | Oct9, Stephen Usher wrote: On 07/10/2011 20:05, peet vanpeebles wrote: To be fair Apple products have a had a checkered reliability as well. I've fixed a number of ibooks. Not mention the faults with older ipods or phones with no signal. Or the top of range liquid cooled G5s that were prone to leaking. Ebay is awash with spares or repair Apple equipment. Sir Clive made some shonky stuff in his time but never charged 1000s. If you pay a few thousand for a computer I'd expect more than a 1 year warranty. Again, to be fair, this is the same with *ALL* manufacturer's kit at the moment. The same factories in China that make Apples make Dells and HPs etc. Having said that, and dealing day-to-day with a large number of people with a large number of types and manufacture of machines, the Apple machines, like for like, are about the same price as an equivalent corporate Dell and are, in general, better put together and reliable. They all fail but on the whole the Apples are slightly better. They're also (mostly) a darn sight easier to repair and get parts for as the models don't change as often as their PC counterparts. They are nice to use and I own a few myself but I think it's more about the branding, image and selling a lifestyle. Actually, there's some of that but they just don't play in the bargain basement, where ASUS, Acer etc. fail to make money. I agree - they are not trouble-free. My second Macbook had so many issues (power supply, power board, motherboard, membrane, ODD drives [2]) that they gave me a brand new top spec faster higher capacity model to replace my lower spec one. … and all very quickly and at the store. Try getting such a response from Sinclair (at the time)! Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
In message 4e8dff8e.5060...@dunbar-it.co.uk, Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk writes Hi Norman, I have never bought any Apple products ... although I appreciate the attention to detail (both inside the product and outside) from an Industrial Design viewpoint. I agree, that Apples' hidden strategy, as a business, is to lock you in to just their own products. Had Sir Clive Sinclair been more successful in business, then he could have been the UK equivalent of Jobs. Sir Clive always insisted on good looking design ideas, and then skimmed over on the manufacturing and quality control; and always left something important out in his products. With, the QL, at the time of manufacture, it was the lack of a floppy disk drive (in favour of the micro drives). Jobs, on the other hand, brought quality products - with good design - to success in the market; and consistently persuaded customers to pay a premium price. Evening, The great man Steve Jobs has passed on. It's always sad when someone passes away. Especially so young. A person would combined good design with new technology. It depends! Apple kit looks good, Apple Macs work extremely well (I'm told) although the Lisa was a bit of a non-starter as I remember. (Like Windows, stolen from Xerox's Palo Alto Research Park). I remember the first time I saw an iPod, it looked good and seemed to work well. I never bought one for the simple reason that Apple sell you things at vastly inflated prices - in my opinion. And many are the sheep that buy Apple because it's Apple - rather than weighing up the alternatives. Designer label collectors. ;-) The iPhone never did anything for me. The iPad didn't either - especially after they were advertising it showing a particular web site in full display. The website was 100% Flash based and because Steve Jobs has a spat with Adobe, there was no way that Flash would run on his kit! I predict, however, that Steve was the only man in charge who could make Apple profitable. I rather suspect that the will do what they did last time he left - go downhill. It will take a bit longer this time as the sheep have paid huge sums on money into the bank accounts of Apple. They can afford a few failures now - but they will eventually fail. :-( Of course, I could be wrong - it happens! ;-) May he rest in peace. Cancer is a bastard! Cheers, Norm. PS. The last Apple thing I liked enough to use was the Apple ][. With twin 5.5 floppies - then were the days! -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
In message capqk1de6iubhjk17w8q9brm2uuckxz5pb3ufgqetpz0e9hz...@mail.gmail.com, Darren Branagh darrenbran...@gmail.com writes Hi Darren, A close encounter with two very innovative people ... :-) Hi Guys, Was wondering when the great man would get a mention I've been in shock all day, I feel like I've lost a close friend. I never met him, but came close once. I now regret not leaning a little further on that guy I was stuck behind to get to shake his hand. However, I did meet the Woz, and he is a wonderful character - loving life and what he does. Just two guys who wanted to change the world a little, and ended up changing it quite a lot RIP Steve. Darren. On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk wrote: Hi, The great man Steve Jobs has passed on. A person would combined good design with new technology. -- Malcolm Cadman __**_ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/**smsqe.htmhttp://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/s msqe.htm -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
--- On Fri, 7/10/11, Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk wrote: From: Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs To: ql-us...@q-v-d.com Date: Friday, 7 October, 2011, 19:48 In message 4e8dff8e.5060...@dunbar-it.co.uk, Norman Dunbar nor...@dunbar-it.co.uk writes Hi Norman, I have never bought any Apple products ... although I appreciate the attention to detail (both inside the product and outside) from an Industrial Design viewpoint. I agree, that Apples' hidden strategy, as a business, is to lock you in to just their own products. Had Sir Clive Sinclair been more successful in business, then he could have been the UK equivalent of Jobs. Sir Clive always insisted on good looking design ideas, and then skimmed over on the manufacturing and quality control; and always left something important out in his products. snip Jobs, on the other hand, brought quality products - with good design - to success in the market; and consistently persuaded customers to pay a premium price. snip To be fair Apple products have a had a checkered reliability as well. I've fixed a number of ibooks. Not mention the faults with older ipods or phones with no signal. Or the top of range liquid cooled G5s that were prone to leaking. Ebay is awash with spares or repair Apple equipment. Sir Clive made some shonky stuff in his time but never charged 1000s. If you pay a few thousand for a computer I'd expect more than a 1 year warranty. They are nice to use and I own a few myself but I think it's more about the branding, image and selling a lifestyle. Peter. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
[Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
Hi, The great man Steve Jobs has passed on. A person would combined good design with new technology. -- Malcolm Cadman ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
Evening, The great man Steve Jobs has passed on. It's always sad when someone passes away. Especially so young. A person would combined good design with new technology. It depends! Apple kit looks good, Apple Macs work extremely well (I'm told) although the Lisa was a bit of a non-starter as I remember. (Like Windows, stolen from Xerox's Palo Alto Research Park). I remember the first time I saw an iPod, it looked good and seemed to work well. I never bought one for the simple reason that Apple sell you things at vastly inflated prices - in my opinion. And many are the sheep that buy Apple because it's Apple - rather than weighing up the alternatives. Designer label collectors. ;-) The iPhone never did anything for me. The iPad didn't either - especially after they were advertising it showing a particular web site in full display. The website was 100% Flash based and because Steve Jobs has a spat with Adobe, there was no way that Flash would run on his kit! I predict, however, that Steve was the only man in charge who could make Apple profitable. I rather suspect that the will do what they did last time he left - go downhill. It will take a bit longer this time as the sheep have paid huge sums on money into the bank accounts of Apple. They can afford a few failures now - but they will eventually fail. :-( Of course, I could be wrong - it happens! ;-) May he rest in peace. Cancer is a bastard! Cheers, Norm. PS. The last Apple thing I liked enough to use was the Apple ][. With twin 5.5 floppies - then were the days! -- Norman Dunbar Dunbar IT Consultants Ltd Registered address: Thorpe House 61 Richardshaw Lane Pudsey West Yorkshire United Kingdom LS28 7EL Company Number: 05132767 ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] OT - The great man - Steve Jobs
Hi Guys, Was wondering when the great man would get a mention I've been in shock all day, I feel like I've lost a close friend. I never met him, but came close once. I now regret not leaning a little further on that guy I was stuck behind to get to shake his hand. However, I did meet the Woz, and he is a wonderful character - loving life and what he does. Just two guys who wanted to change the world a little, and ended up changing it quite a lot RIP Steve. Darren. On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Malcolm Cadman q...@mcad.demon.co.uk wrote: Hi, The great man Steve Jobs has passed on. A person would combined good design with new technology. -- Malcolm Cadman __**_ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/**smsqe.htmhttp://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- *Darren Branagh.* ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
