Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
Yesterday Rich Mellor wrote: Urs - what were the issue motherboards you got hold of - was it an issue 2 I sent to you which was missing the expansion connector? I'm still lurking on the mailing-list. Amazing how busy it is those days. Go on! There's a video where I'm talking about this subject. Here's the direct link to the section of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlujA78ERdY#t=9m17s Interested tinkerers please check the links below for more in-depth QL stories... Cheers, Urs - QLvsJAGUAR - Much more than retro! - Always remember: QL forever! Website: http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/QLvsJaguar Pictures: http://cid-c250d8748980ce5a.photos.live.com/albums.aspx ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
Remembered last night that my very brief ownership of less than an hour with QL number 1 was an Version FB machine. I was 18. Urs Koenig (QL) q...@bluewin.ch 04 February 2011 14:18 Yesterday Rich Mellor wrote: Urs - what were the issue motherboards you got hold of - was it an issue 2 I sent to you which was missing the expansion connector? I'm still lurking on the mailing-list. Amazing how busy it is those days. Go on! There's a video where I'm talking about this subject. Here's the direct link to the section of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlujA78ERdY#t=9m17s Interested tinkerers please check the links below for more in-depth QL stories... Cheers, Urs - QLvsJAGUAR - Much more than retro! - Always remember: QL forever! Website: http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/QLvsJaguar Pictures: http://cid-c250d8748980ce5a.photos.live.com/albums.aspx ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
It's interesting that this is a D07- machine. My first QL was a D07- with JM ROMs, and my second was a D13- with JS ROMS. The first was $399 and as reliable as a Lada. The second was $99 and probably still works. Dave On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Neil Riley neil.ri...@boxclever.co.ukwrote: Remembered last night that my very brief ownership of less than an hour with QL number 1 was an Version FB machine. I was 18. Urs Koenig (QL) q...@bluewin.ch 04 February 2011 14:18 Yesterday Rich Mellor wrote: Urs - what were the issue motherboards you got hold of - was it an issue 2 I sent to you which was missing the expansion connector? I'm still lurking on the mailing-list. Amazing how busy it is those days. Go on! There's a video where I'm talking about this subject. Here's the direct link to the section of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlujA78ERdY#t=9m17s Interested tinkerers please check the links below for more in-depth QL stories... Cheers, Urs - QLvsJAGUAR - Much more than retro! - Always remember: QL forever! Website: http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/QLvsJaguar Pictures: http://cid-c250d8748980ce5a.photos.live.com/albums.aspx ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
Don't forget that Sinclair would have recycled many of the cases and motherboards - so the serial number does not necessarily indicate an early version motherboard. On 04/02/2011 15:14, Plastic wrote: It's interesting that this is a D07- machine. My first QL was a D07- with JM ROMs, and my second was a D13- with JS ROMS. The first was $399 and as reliable as a Lada. The second was $99 and probably still works. Dave On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Neil Rileyneil.ri...@boxclever.co.ukwrote: Remembered last night that my very brief ownership of less than an hour with QL number 1 was an Version FB machine. I was 18. Urs Koenig (QL)q...@bluewin.ch 04 February 2011 14:18 Yesterday Rich Mellor wrote: Urs - what were the issue motherboards you got hold of - was it an issue 2 I sent to you which was missing the expansion connector? I'm still lurking on the mailing-list. Amazing how busy it is those days. Go on! There's a video where I'm talking about this subject. Here's the direct link to the section of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlujA78ERdY#t=9m17s Interested tinkerers please check the links below for more in-depth QL stories... Cheers, Urs - QLvsJAGUAR - Much more than retro! - Always remember: QL forever! Website: http://www.qlvsjaguar.homepage.bluewin.ch Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/QLvsJaguar Pictures: http://cid-c250d8748980ce5a.photos.live.com/albums.aspx ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
On 03/02/2011 12:49, Dilwyn Jones wrote: It was followed by FB which may never have left the factory - we know that Psion had to alter their boot programs to cope with the difference in the AT command in the FB ROM compared to later QL ROMs (they didn't bother checking for the earlier PM ROM). No-one else had to make this change or ever use it, so it looks as though by the time the public got their hands on the QL, the operating system was at least AH (which was soon followed by JM, JS and MG ROMs). I'm pretty sure I had an FB machine when they came out, as I remember the AT x,y problem quite clearly . Also, as I didn't find out about version PM until many years later (I remember Simon explaining about it), I'm sure it must have been version FB ROM which I had. That QL got returned within weeks for an update, but I don't know if the machine which came back was the same one as I first had, or a different computer. So, assuming that the old DJ memory chips are working correctly and I'm correct, FB must have been issued to some early customers. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I guess some customers did have the FB ROMs - (interesting) The odd thing is that only the main 4 Psion packages ever made allowance for the difference in the AT command - presumably no-one else ever raised this with an issue with software producers, as all the machines were returned to Sinclair. Turbo and Q-liberator would have fun compiling the AT command if it was written on the FB ROM ! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
Rich Mellor wrote, on 3/Feb/11 12:21 | Feb3: We have now managed to resurrect an early example of the Sinclair QL home computer as it was first unveiled to the expectant media, complete with the slow v1 Psion software and the infamous Dongle (or Kludge) which contained one third of the QL's operating system. In 26 years of being involved with the QL, this is the first example we have ever come across and we have managed to resurrect it, complete with early microdrive units and the AH operating system and very early First Edition manual (predates the First Edition dated 6/84). All of these machines were sent back to Sinclair for upgrades (to replace the operating system with one needing two ROM chips fitted internally, plus various hardware modifications to make the QL more reliable and even useable!). We even found one of the three EPROM chips required for the PM version of QDOS. Unfortunately, the other two chips (and their code) are missing. PM was one of the earliest versions of QDOS (pre-release). It was followed by FB which may never have left the factory - we know that Psion had to alter their boot programs to cope with the difference in the AT command in the FB ROM compared to later QL ROMs (they didn't bother checking for the earlier PM ROM). No-one else had to make this change or ever use it, so it looks as though by the time the public got their hands on the QL, the operating system was at least AH (which was soon followed by JM, JS and MG ROMs). I got mine in June 1984 and it wasn't AH. I think it may well have been FB. The post office lost it on its way back to Sinclair! snip Tony -- QBBS (QL fido BBS 2:257/67) +44(0)1442-828255 t...@firshman.co.uk http://firshman.co.uk Voice: +44(0)1442-828254 Fax: +44(0)1442-828255 Skype: tonyfirshman TF Services, 29 Longfield Road, TRING, Herts, HP23 4DG ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
It was followed by FB which may never have left the factory - we know that Psion had to alter their boot programs to cope with the difference in the AT command in the FB ROM compared to later QL ROMs (they didn't bother checking for the earlier PM ROM). No-one else had to make this change or ever use it, so it looks as though by the time the public got their hands on the QL, the operating system was at least AH (which was soon followed by JM, JS and MG ROMs). Yep, I can remember my first machine was FB. I never managed to keep it going more than 10 minutes before it crashed! Malcolm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
Rich Mellor wrote: On 03/02/2011 12:49, Dilwyn Jones wrote: It was followed by FB which may never have left the factory - we know that Psion had to alter their boot programs to cope with the difference in the AT command in the FB ROM compared to later QL ROMs (they didn't bother checking for the earlier PM ROM). No-one else had to make this change or ever use it, so it looks as though by the time the public got their hands on the QL, the operating system was at least AH (which was soon followed by JM, JS and MG ROMs). I'm pretty sure I had an FB machine when they came out, as I remember the AT x,y problem quite clearly . Also, as I didn't find out about version PM until many years later (I remember Simon explaining about it), I'm sure it must have been version FB ROM which I had. That QL got returned within weeks for an update, but I don't know if the machine which came back was the same one as I first had, or a different computer. So, assuming that the old DJ memory chips are working correctly and I'm correct, FB must have been issued to some early customers. I guess some customers did have the FB ROMs - (interesting) The odd thing is that only the main 4 Psion packages ever made allowance for the difference in the AT command - presumably no-one else ever raised this with an issue with software producers, as all the machines were returned to Sinclair. Turbo and Q-liberator would have fun compiling the AT command if it was written on the FB ROM ! I'd always understood the order to be FB, PM, AH, JM, JS, MGx; I think I read that in an early edition of QL User. PM was supposedly never released. FB allegedly stood for Full of Bugs, AH for Angela's Holiday. Not sure about the others... I had an AH QL (s/n D06 IIRC) from new in about June or July 1984, if my beer-addled memory serves me correctly. Sadly, one of the soldered-on chips on the AH board has given up the ghost (which had some hand-soldered modifications), but the AH chips live on in another, newer, board. Cheers! Ade. ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
On 3 Feb 2011, at 13:08, Rich Mellor wrote: Turbo and Q-liberator would have fun compiling the AT command if it was written on the FB ROM ! Since anything is possible Turbo could be adapted to cover this . . . BUT only if there is sufficient real demand. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
On 3 Feb 2011, at 15:05, Ade Vickers wrote: I'd always understood the order to be FB, PM, AH, JM, JS, MGx; I think I read that in an early edition of QL User. PM was supposedly never released. FB allegedly stood for Full of Bugs, AH for Angela's Holiday. Not sure about the others... I had an AH QL (s/n D06 IIRC) from new in about June or July 1984, if my beer-addled memory serves me correctly. Sadly, one of the soldered-on chips on the AH board has given up the ghost (which had some hand-soldered modifications), but the AH chips live on in another, newer, board. I only have AH, JM and JS roms. But the QL was obsolescent when I started buying them. George ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
My first QL arrived after many months of waiting... as no doubt did everyone. No dongle as i recall but it dids within a few minutes of switching on, so was promptly retuned. A replacement arrived a week or two later with AH Roms, It at least was reliable for the time I owned it. Seeing as I ordered my QL as soon as those fancy brochures appeared in PC World and other PC Mags, I do wonder how close I was to receiving a Dongled specimen. Neil Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk 03 February 2011 13:08 On 03/02/2011 12:49, Dilwyn Jones wrote: It was followed by FB which may never have left the factory - we know that Psion had to alter their boot programs to cope with the difference in the AT command in the FB ROM compared to later QL ROMs (they didn't bother checking for the earlier PM ROM). No-one else had to make this change or ever use it, so it looks as though by the time the public got their hands on the QL, the operating system was at least AH (which was soon followed by JM, JS and MG ROMs). I'm pretty sure I had an FB machine when they came out, as I remember the AT x,y problem quite clearly . Also, as I didn't find out about version PM until many years later (I remember Simon explaining about it), I'm sure it must have been version FB ROM which I had. That QL got returned within weeks for an update, but I don't know if the machine which came back was the same one as I first had, or a different computer. So, assuming that the old DJ memory chips are working correctly and I'm correct, FB must have been issued to some early customers. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I guess some customers did have the FB ROMs - (interesting) The odd thing is that only the main 4 Psion packages ever made allowance for the difference in the AT command - presumably no-one else ever raised this with an issue with software producers, as all the machines were returned to Sinclair. Turbo and Q-liberator would have fun compiling the AT command if it was written on the FB ROM ! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
*died not dids ! Neil Riley neil.ri...@boxclever.co.uk 03 February 2011 16:32 My first QL arrived after many months of waiting... as no doubt did everyone. No dongle as i recall but it dids within a few minutes of switching on, so was promptly retuned. A replacement arrived a week or two later with AH Roms, It at least was reliable for the time I owned it. Seeing as I ordered my QL as soon as those fancy brochures appeared in PC World and other PC Mags, I do wonder how close I was to receiving a Dongled specimen. Neil Rich Mellor r...@rwapservices.co.uk 03 February 2011 13:08 On 03/02/2011 12:49, Dilwyn Jones wrote: It was followed by FB which may never have left the factory - we know that Psion had to alter their boot programs to cope with the difference in the AT command in the FB ROM compared to later QL ROMs (they didn't bother checking for the earlier PM ROM). No-one else had to make this change or ever use it, so it looks as though by the time the public got their hands on the QL, the operating system was at least AH (which was soon followed by JM, JS and MG ROMs). I'm pretty sure I had an FB machine when they came out, as I remember the AT x,y problem quite clearly . Also, as I didn't find out about version PM until many years later (I remember Simon explaining about it), I'm sure it must have been version FB ROM which I had. That QL got returned within weeks for an update, but I don't know if the machine which came back was the same one as I first had, or a different computer. So, assuming that the old DJ memory chips are working correctly and I'm correct, FB must have been issued to some early customers. Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm I guess some customers did have the FB ROMs - (interesting) The odd thing is that only the main 4 Psion packages ever made allowance for the difference in the AT command - presumably no-one else ever raised this with an issue with software producers, as all the machines were returned to Sinclair. Turbo and Q-liberator would have fun compiling the AT command if it was written on the FB ROM ! -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm *** The contents of this email are confidential to the intended recipient. It may not be disclosed to or used by anyone other than the addressee, nor may it be copied in any way. If received in error, please contact the company on 01793-715380, then delete it from your system. Please note neither the company nor the sender accepts any responsibility for viruses and it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any) for viruses. No contract may be concluded on behalf of the company by means of email communications. BC Services (UK) Limited (trading as Boxclever), Technology House, Ampthill Road, Bedford, MK42 9QQ. Registered No. 5290544 England www.boxclever.co.uk *** ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
On 03/02/2011 16:34, Neil Riley wrote: *died not dids ! Neil Rileyneil.ri...@boxclever.co.uk 03 February 2011 16:32 My first QL arrived after many months of waiting... as no doubt did everyone. No dongle as i recall but it dids within a few minutes of switching on, so was promptly retuned. A replacement arrived a week or two later with AH Roms, It at least was reliable for the time I owned it. No dids - died in digital sense Excuse me butting in All the best - Bill ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
I'd always understood the order to be FB, PM, AH, JM, JS, MGx; I think I read that in an early edition of QL User. PM was supposedly never released. FB allegedly stood for Full of Bugs, AH for Angela's Holiday. Not sure about the others... JM apparently stood for John Mathieson, one of the Sinclair engineers at the time. According to Tony Tebby, there was also a version TB. But the sources for this went missing at Sinclair, so a development version of the ROM (JS) was adapted for the USA market, although JS contained a number of untested extensions to BASIC, minor bug fixes and what Tony called fiddles to microdrive routines. As we know now, TB machines never appeared (in any great quantity) at least, and the UK also got JS machine. The later MG ones were only meant to go abroad, I don't know if any ended up over here. There was a later MGUK, but that wasn't by Sinclair, it was written by (I think) John Alexander a bit later. It was fascinating to read in Tony Tebby's article that version JM was actually ready for launch in March 1984, but another magazine (can't remember which, probably QL User) said that 89 version FB ROM machines were shipped. Something to do with meeting 4 or 6 week delivery deadlines (something like that, though I can't find the original article to check that). Seems somewhat strange that somehow Sinclair contrived to deliver those very early QLs with an older operating system than they had available! Unless it was something to do with either the lead times for programming ROMs/EPROMs, or the fact that those early boards were scrapped upon return to Sinclair (up to version D05 of the boards, according to Tony Tebby). Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
Re: [Ql-Users] Extremely rare example of a Sinclair QL with Dongle
On 03/02/2011 17:16, Dilwyn Jones wrote: I'd always understood the order to be FB, PM, AH, JM, JS, MGx; I think I read that in an early edition of QL User. PM was supposedly never released. FB allegedly stood for Full of Bugs, AH for Angela's Holiday. Not sure about the others... JM apparently stood for John Mathieson, one of the Sinclair engineers at the time. According to Tony Tebby, there was also a version TB. But the sources for this went missing at Sinclair, so a development version of the ROM (JS) was adapted for the USA market, although JS contained a number of untested extensions to BASIC, minor bug fixes and what Tony called fiddles to microdrive routines. As we know now, TB machines never appeared (in any great quantity) at least, and the UK also got JS machine. The later MG ones were only meant to go abroad, I don't know if any ended up over here. There was a later MGUK, but that wasn't by Sinclair, it was written by (I think) John Alexander a bit later. It was fascinating to read in Tony Tebby's article that version JM was actually ready for launch in March 1984, but another magazine (can't remember which, probably QL User) said that 89 version FB ROM machines were shipped. Something to do with meeting 4 or 6 week delivery deadlines (something like that, though I can't find the original article to check that). Seems somewhat strange that somehow Sinclair contrived to deliver those very early QLs with an older operating system than they had available! Unless it was something to do with either the lead times for programming ROMs/EPROMs, or the fact that those early boards were scrapped upon return to Sinclair (up to version D05 of the boards, according to Tony Tebby). Dilwyn Jones ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm It is odd in some ways and I am glad my email has sparked some comment and reminiscences about the early days of the QL - much as the Tony Tebby articles did in QL Today. I have had a magnifying glass to the article in the launch issue of QL User, and it appears that they had an issue 4 motherboard in the QL they used for the photo. Urs - what were the issue motherboards you got hold of - was it an issue 2 I sent to you which was missing the expansion connector? -- Rich Mellor RWAP Services http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk http://www.rwapservices.co.uk -- Try out our new site: http://sellmyretro.com ___ QL-Users Mailing List http://www.q-v-d.demon.co.uk/smsqe.htm
