RE: [QUAD-L] **Warning - Slightly Graphic** - Rash Cures

[Ol' Man River]

i find rubbing alcohol works well on early preassure sores. i leave them open to the air and rub with a clean cloth and rubbing alchol about every two hours. they dry up quickly if found early. daveLana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gabe's staff uses a blow dryer on cool and dries the area. Then they applycreamy desitine. If it turns into a yeast infection, dry area with blowdryer on cool then use myconazole 2-3x day. It works well and has controlledproblem for many years.LanaGabe's mom-Original Message-From: Aaron Mann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 5:51 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: RE: [QUAD-L] **Warning - Slightly Graphic** - Rash CuresYeah, this TX humidity kills me...Any-woman know the name of a good ointment/crème? (Somehow I doubt lookingfor "Crotch Rot" at Walgreen's will work ;) ) I could ask the Pharmacist,but prefer going in with a recommendation.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 03!
 , 2005
 6:45 PMTo: Aaron Mann; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] **Warning - Slightly Graphic** - Rash CuresIn a message dated 10/3/05 6:37:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For you guys, and maybe gals too, what do you do for a sweaty crotch?This is the first year I've had this issue of constant redness and rashes.Me thinks that its "Crotch Rot" caused by high humidity, urine and a littlefecus. After the area is washed with soap and water, rinsed and properlydry, try adding the same ointment women use for crotch rot and spreadcarefully. At night, allow the air to dry out the area as best as you can.Best Wishes for a speedy recovery. Those rashes are nasty.WDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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Re: [QUAD-L] **Warning - Slightly Graphic** - Rash Cures

[Ol' Man River]

some, luckily it desn't hurt 
Jeremy Dickinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Good lord, I bet that makes you spasm.
On 10/4/05, Ol' Man River [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

i find rubbing alcohol works well on early preassure sores. i leave them open to the air and rub with a clean cloth and rubbing alchol about every two hours. they dry up quickly if found early. dave 
Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
Gabe's staff uses a blow dryer on cool and dries the area. Then they applycreamy desitine. If it turns into a yeast infection, dry area with blow dryer on cool then use myconazole 2-3x day. It works well and has controlledproblem for many years.LanaGabe's mom-Original Message-From: Aaron Mann [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 5:51 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: RE: [QUAD-L] **Warning - Slightly Graphic** - Rash CuresYeah, this TX humidity kills me...!
 Any-woman
 know the name of a good ointment/crème? (Somehow I doubt lookingfor "Crotch Rot" at Walgreen's will work ;) ) I could ask the Pharmacist,but prefer going in with a recommendation.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, October 03! , 2005 6:45 PMTo: Aaron Mann; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] **Warning - Slightly Graphic** - Rash CuresIn a message dated 10/3/05 6:37:40 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For you guys, and maybe gals !
 too, what
 do you do for a sweaty crotch?This is the first year I've had this issue of constant redness and rashes.Me thinks that its "Crotch Rot" caused by high humidity, urine and a littlefecus. After the area is washed with soap and water, rinsed and properly dry, try adding the same ointment women use for crotch rot and spreadcarefully. At night, allow the air to dry out the area as best as you can.Best Wishes for a speedy recovery. Those rashes are nasty.W
Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ 


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-- Jeremy - FloridaC-3 Quad since 4/11/01. Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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Re: [QUAD-L] shoulder injuries

[Ol' Man River]

i pushed a manual for 38 years. when my job moved to a big sprawling building, i went power. my fingers and shoulders were starting to show the wear. no problems now unless i try to push a long ways.



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


hey all

im writing an essay for school and wondering if you would answerfewquestions:

can or could youpush a manual wheelchair?

do you have a shoulder injury from pushing a manual chair?

has a rehab center, doctor, etc.suggested pushing a manual chair to build arm strength?

thanks guys. all input and suggestions arehelpful.

Luke

Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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[QUAD-L] http://earth.google.com/

[Ol' Man River]

very cool software. type in any address..
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[QUAD-L] problem du jour

[Ol' Man River]

i have a nice 20 meg avi file of a friend and her band. she wants it on her website whech accepts only 3.5 meg files max. i cut the 20 meg file into 3.5 meg sections and the 1st one plays great. the others don't. they have no header. i cut them into 1024k sections and can now add sections 4 and 5 to section 1 and it plays BUT it runs for 6 seconds instead of the 20 seconds i expect any ideas? how can i get more of this avi online in this stupid, limited environment? dave


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[QUAD-L] here's the site i'm updating

[Ol' Man River]

http://fabulousgadabouts.com/fortmcd/

u like ?
dave

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Re: [QUAD-L] Big award to quad

[Ol' Man River]

the last time i went to the ER (2 months ago), it was for a quick triage and then a 750ml iv drip of Levaquin. The whole deal took about 4 hours and most was spent unattended. The bill was 12,000$. Dividing 12,000 into 5,700,000 you get almost 500. 500 days is about a year and a half. If you are spending money on professional medical attention, your 5.7 million isn't going to last very long. Winning the million dollar jackpot just isn't such a thrill as it used to be. dave

Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





I thought this information would be of interest to you all. A man with paraplegia was hospitalized in one of our local hospitals, St. Luke’s, with pneumonia. When he was taken down to X-ray he was unconscious. They propped him up and left him unattended during the x-ray. He fell off the table and broke his neck. He is now a high quad. The settlement was announced a couple of days ago- 5.7 million dollars. My husband and I discussed if this would be enough to provide care for him for the rest of his life. I asked my husband if some of the money could be placed in trust so it wouldn’t have to all go to care. So he could buy a home and have other benefits and he felt his attorney would probably do so (he is an attorney- and works for the PA.) We have a friend who had a child born with disabilities because the doctor chose to golf rather than deliver her baby. She almost died !
 and her
 son was born blind and with very severe CP and multiple problems. They were awarded somewhere around 4 million. They had insurance. They started running out of money when he was ten. He lived until he was 18. 5.7 million sounds like a lot, but if you have to pay for all of your medical care out of it, it can be eaten up real quick. What do you guys think? 

When Gabe was hospitalized at St lukes yesterday the first thing the nurse said when he got to his room was “we lower the bed all the way so it’s easier on our back and so you can’t fall.” We all know nurses like to keep beds high because of possible back stain. Gabe will be coming home today, just an over nighter to remove kidney stones. 

Lana
Gabe’s mom

Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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Re: [QUAD-L] Pet peeve's

[Ol' Man River]

left turn sleepers
people who need THEIR show on while they sleep
lazy whiners
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Hello All,
 I was just thinking about something. I have three strong pet peeves
 1. people who lie
 2. people who are late - even myself
 3. people who boast

 What are some of your pet peeve's?Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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[QUAD-L] IBOT trial.....

[Ol' Man River]

WHAT A TOY. WHAT A WAY TO GO
COME ON POWERBALL... DADDY NEEDS NEW WHEELS...

http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/ibot/index.html


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[QUAD-L] Restless Leg Syndrom

[Ol' Man River]

While waiting for my neuro the other day (making sure he and I are on the same page for when SSDI calls) I saw a flier about RLS. It described leg twitching and jerking after one goes to bed. My neuro offered a few different sample drugs for RLS saying he doubted they would have any effect but he said, "what the hell?" He's an older guy and I really like him - he's willing to try anything under close supervision. He admits he doesn't know all the answers. The 1st time he saw me he walked backwards down the hall watching me push my manual chair - and then did a few tuning fork touch tests before he said, "it's easy to see that the only thing keeping you going is your will power. For my money, you are completely disabled and can't work a 40 hour a weekjob." (My get-out-of-jail-free card.)  The 1st one he gave me is Mirapex 0.25 mg, and it seems to work GREAT!!. My legs are !
 VERY
 quiet at night now and even less jumpy during the daytime. This drug evidently increases dopamine in the brain which affects random excess motor neural activity. -- http://www.mirapex.com/C/index.asp
I am REALLY happy with Mirapex and thought maybe any of you with similar symptoms might like to give it a try.




Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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RE: [QUAD-L] Restless Leg Syndrom

[Ol' Man River]

I get NO spasm relief from baclofen or vallium - I simply sleep thru all kicking - so says wifey. In the daytime I can hardly stay awake under the two aforementioned downers. I see that the web page says Mirapex can be used in conjunction with other drugs but - - BE SURE TO CHK THIS WITH YOUR DOC.


Eric W Rudd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Do you take this on top of other spasm meds. I already take baclofen and dantrium.


Eric W Rudd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-From: Ol' Man River [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:07 PMTo: quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: [QUAD-L] Restless Leg Syndrom
While waiting for my neuro the other day (making sure he and I are on the same page for when SSDI calls) I saw a flier about RLS. It described leg twitching and jerking after one goes to bed. My neuro offered a few different sample drugs for RLS saying he doubted they would have any effect but he said, "what the hell?" He's an older guy and I really like him - he's willing to try anything under close supervision. He admits he doesn't know all the answers. The 1st time he saw me he walked backwards down the hall watching me push my manual chair - and then did a few tuning fork touch tests before he said, "it's easy to see that the only thing keeping you going is your will power. For my money, you are completely disabled and can't work a 40 hour a weekjob." (My get-out-of-jail-free card.)  The 1st one he gave me is Mirapex 0.25 mg, and it seems to work GREAT!!. My legs are !
 ! VERY
 quiet at night now and even less jumpy during the daytime. This drug evidently increases dopamine in the brain which affects random excess motor neural activity. -- http://www.mirapex.com/C/index.asp
I am REALLY happy with Mirapex and thought maybe any of you with similar symptoms might like to give it a try.





Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ


Yahoo! for GoodClick here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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[QUAD-L] There still IS hope...

[Ol' Man River]

(Possible a U.L. but... who cares?)

At a fundraising dinner for a school that serves learning disabled children, the father of one of the students delivered a speech thatwould never be forgotten by all who attended.After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he offered a question."When not interfered with by outside influences, everything naturedoes is done with perfection. Yet my son, Shay, cannot learn things asother children do. He cannot understand things as other children do.Where is the natural order of things in my son?"The audience was stilled by the query.The father continued. "I believe, that when a child like Shay comes intothe world, an opportunity to realize true human nature presents itself,and it comes, in the way other people treat that child."Then he told the following story: Shay and his father had walked past apark where some boys Shay knew were playing baseball.Shay asked, "Do you think they'll !
 let me
 play?"Shay's father knew that most of the boys would not want someone likeShay on their team, but the father also understood that if his son wereallowed to play, it would give him a much-needed sense of belonging.Shay's father approached one of the boys on the field and asked if Shaycould play.The boy looked around for guidance and, getting none, he took mattersinto his own hands and said, "We're losing by six runs and the game isin the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to puthim in to bat in the ninth inning."In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shay's team scored a few runs butthey were still behind by three.In the top of the ninth inning, Shay put on a glove and played in theoutfield.Even though no hits came his way, he was obviously ecstatic just to bein the game and on the field, grinning from ear to ear as his fatherwaved to him from the stands.In the bo!
 ttom of
 the ninth inning, Shay's team scored again. Now, withtwo outs and the bases loaded, the potential winning run was on base andShay was scheduled to be next at bat.At this juncture, let Shay bat and give away their chance to win the game?Surprisingly, Shay was given the bat. Everyone knew that a hit was allbut impossible 'cause Shay didn't even know how to hold the batproperly, much less connect with the ball.However, as Shay stepped up to the plate, the pitcher moved in a fewsteps to lob the ball in softly so Shay could at least be able to makecontact.The first pitch came and Shay swung clumsily and missed. The pitcheragain took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly towards Shay.As the pitch came in, Shay swung at the ball and hit a slow ground ballright back to the pitcher.The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could have easily thrown theball to the first baseman. Shay would !
 have been
 out and that wouldhave been the end of the game.Instead, the pitcher took the ball and turned and threw the ball on ahigh arc to right field, far beyond the reach of the first baseman.Everyone started yelling, "Shay, run to first! Run to first!"Never in his life had Shay ever made it to first base. He scampered downthe baseline, wide-eyed and startled.Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second!"By the time Shay rounded first base, the right fielder had the ball.He could have thrown the ball to the second-baseman for the tag, but heunderstood the pitcher's intentions and intentionally threw the ballhighand far over the third-baseman's head.Shay ran toward second base as the runners ahead of him deliriouslycircled the bases toward home.Shay reached second base, the opposing shortstop ran to him, turnedhim in the direction of third base, and shouted, "Run to third!"As Shay r!
 ounded
 third, the boys from both teams were screaming, "Shay,run home!"Shay ran to home, stepped on the plate, and was cheered as the herowho hit the "grand slam" and won the game for his team."That day," said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face,"the boys from both teams helped bring a piece of true love and humanityinto this world."AND, NOW A LITTLE FOOTNOTE TO THIS STORY: We all send thousands of jokes through the e-mail without a secondthought, but when it comes to sending messages about life choices,people think twice about sharing.If you're thinking about forwarding this message, chances are thatyou're probably sorting out the people on your address list that aren'tthe "appropriate" ones to receive this type of message.Well, the person who sent you this believes that we all can make adifference. We all have thousands of opportunities every single day tohelp realize the "!
 natural
 order of things."So many seemingly trivial interactions between two people present uswith a choice:Do we pass along a little spark of love and humanity or do we pass upthat opportunity, and leave the world a little bit colder in the process?You now have two choices:1. Delete this.2. Forward it to the people you care about.You already know the choice I opted for.Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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[QUAD-L] Any cooks in the crowd??

[Ol' Man River]

We started a new cooking/recipe sharing group. All white thumbs are invited.
Thx,
Dave

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Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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[QUAD-L] ibot wheels

[Ol' Man River]

I'm trying one of these bad boys out tomorrow. Can't afford to buy but can try it out ok... http://www.independencenow.com/ibot/4wheel.html
I'll take pictures and post them...
Dave
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RE: [QUAD-L] Albuquerque

[Ol' Man River]

looks like ppl from alberqueque are responding with cute things like "where am i?"
dave phxLori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






What is your point dudes? 

I just said I know where 'most' (or many) of you residebut
MY POINT AND QUESTION was inquiring as to who lives in Alb?

Eric ... Palestine, IL

---Original Message---


From: Eric W Rudd
Date: 09/17/05 16:52:38
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Cc: 'Quad_List'
Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Albuquerque

And me?


Eric W Rudd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-From: Chet Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2005 5:41 PMTo: Lori MichaelsonCc: Quad_ListSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] Albuquerque
 Where do I Live?Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 







I know where most of you reside. But have I missed anyone who lives
in Albuquerque, NM???

Lori Michaelson
C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post
Tucson, AZ









__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Lori, and others with indwelling type caths.

[Ol' Man River]

i've been on LEVEQUIN a few times this year - all for UTI flareups. they just never seem to get completely gone. i thought there for a while that LEVEQUIN was a miracle drug, maybe it's not as hot as i thought...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Lori, I know you had quite a problem with a PROTEUS infection. I had a very serious PSEUDAMONAS infection that put in into the hospital for 1 week on IV drugs about a year and a half back, that my Urologist said he knew about but wanted to let it go, to see if I could get better on my own.Well it really messed me up and destroyed much of my white blood cells back then. NOW this Urologist say's I must go to my family Doc for all bladder infections. Well my family Doctor just told me I got Pseudamoas AGAIN Today ! He wants to try and treat it with ORAL anti-biotics -- Levequin. Do any of you know if the more serious types of bacteria can be treated like that or do they require IV Drugs ?? I'm Lost and confused on this...as my Doctors seem unsure themselves. I just gave blood today to see if my blood cells are messed up again Thanks, DanDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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[QUAD-L] POWER PUDDING

[Ol' Man River]

has anyone ever tried this..??

POWER PUDDINGPower pudding," an easy-to-prepare supplement, is both a source of fiber and a colonic stimulant. Patients can prepare it at home and often find it more palatable than other high-fiber options. The recipe is simple:2 cups miller's bran2 cups applesauce1 cup unsweetened prune Juice The mixture should be refrigerated and served in 2- to 3-tablespoon portions twice a day.Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired o!
 f spam? 
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Re: [QUAD-L] update

[Ol' Man River]

hurry back stacy,
we miss your input. i got some miracle mist, and i'm dying to try it out.. maybe on my sit down owie. 
Stacy Harim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Hey guys,

this is just a quick not since I need to use my time up for the bowel program and I'm in quite a bit of pain. I went to the surgeons and he will be opening up the tunnel to clean it out. He will have the vac put on it so it can heal that way. I have more confidence now that it will be opened since the opening to the tunnel is so narrow. I'll keep you all posted. HOpefully it wont take long b/c it is getting very lonely sitting in bed all alone. My neighbor/helper from the waiver comes over to bring me my meals and straighten my house but other than that there isn't many people to talk to since I have a very small family and don’t talk that much and the few friends that I have are very busy with their families and work. I'm trying to keep my spirits up so I can heal b/c I know that it's important for getting better. One thing that keeps me going os watching the news and thanking God that I am blessed to have what I do!
 .

Take care everyone and hopefully I'll have my roho soon so I can get up for a little bit during the day.

StacyDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Need new sites

[Ol' Man River]

i hear you W. yes we will be seeing lots of human nature in the future - both good AND bad. it's just frustrating to deal with people who prefer not to hear all sides of a story. the ostrich approach is pleasant for the ostrich but hardly realistic or useful in real life. dave

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Before this is all over with, in the next 5-10 years you and I are going tohear a lot, and read about a lot more crazy stories of both the bright side andthe dark side of almost every issue.Today in LA, California is a good example of hearsay gone wrong. Power Grid Interruption. Word out- TERRORIST. I heard several more stories before the truefacts were made present.WIn a message dated 9/12/05 6:22:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: these aren't MY stories and i'm not THINKING like the authors, and they aren't the only stories i see, they are just INTERESTING stories. you sure jump to a lot of conclusions about people. would you rather NOT see the dark side of our brethren? then delete my posts BEFORE you jump to the wrong conclusions. open your mind a little.
 Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
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Re: [QUAD-L] Need new sites

[Ol' Man River]

the tv stations out here are warning of buying "used" cars from new orleans. the cars won't be labeled as such but a title search will tell the tale. after the st. louis flood we got a bunch of refurbished cars too. 
i can't even imagine how many buildings are going tohave to be bulldozed, and then to rebuild in the same spot seems less than real smart. some insurance companies require replacements to be on the same land i think, any isurance people on here? our three 500-year floods in 3 consecutive years taught people a lot around here, temporary as that might be. that cheap river flood plain ground is real cheap to buy some can't pass up such a good deal. i'll bet that in 10 years, it will be very hard to tell what happened last month.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Amen Dave,As time passes, (and it does) we will find out a lot more of what happened and whatdidn't happen. I hope we learn that most can be rebuilt to the advantages of those who had to leave.What will happen to the economy of that area? How will people, in mass, be ableto pay for their mortgages, and utilities bills from before the hurricane? How willbusinesses be able to survive when there is no one to buy or pay their old bills?The car loans. I don't believe that the lenders are going to be that forgiving.Only time will tell. Only time will tell.WIn a message dated 9/13/05 11:33:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i hear you W. yes we will be seeing lots of human nature in the future - both good AND bad. it's just frustrating to deal with people who prefer not to hear all sides of !
 a story.
 the ostrich approach is pleasant for the ostrich but hardly realistic or useful in real life. dave Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates

[Ol' Man River]

You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least.

Ol' Man River [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



from another list i'm on..Subject: Katrina Volunteer ~ Another ViewpointTurn The Other Cheek?From a correspondent in Idaho.((This is from a guy here in Houston who went to volunteer his time to help the hurricane victims. It is pretty sad and disappointing to think people could be so ungrateful.))Katrina Volunteer ~ Another ViewpointSO I VOLUNTEERED..I thought I might inform the few friends I have on my recent traumatic experience. I am going to tell it straight, blunt, raw, and I don't give a damn. Long read, I know but please do read!I went to volunteer on Saturday at the George R. Brown convention for two reasons. * I wanted to help people to get a warm fuzzy* Curiosity.I've been watching the new!
 ! s
 lately and have seen scenes that have made me want to vomit. And, no, it wasn't dead bodies, the city under water, or the sludge everywhere. It was PEOPLE’S BEHAVIOR. The people on TV (99 percent being Black) were DEMANDING help. They were not asking nicely, but demanding as if society owed these people something. Well, the honest truth is WE DON'T.Help should be asked for in a kind manner and then appreciated. This is not what the press (FOX in particular) was showing. What I was seeing was a group of people yelling, demanding, looting, killing, raping, and SHOOTING back at the demanded help! So, I'm thinking this can't possibly be true can it? So I decide to submit to the DEMAND for help out of SHOCK. I couldn't believe this to be true of the majority of the people who are the weakest of society. So I went to volunteer and help folks out and see the truth. So I will tell the following story and you decide.I arrived at the astrodome only t!
 o find !
 out that there are too many volunteers and volunteers were needed at the George R. Brown Convention Center. As I was walking up to the Convention Center I noticed a line of cars that wrapped around blocks filled with donations. These were ordinary Houstonians coming with truckloads and trunks full of water, diapers, clothes, blankets, food ~ all types of good stuff. And lots of it was NEW. I felt that warm fuzzy while helping unload these vehicles of these wonderful human beings. I then went inside the building and noticed approximately 100,000 sq. ft. of clothes, shoes, jackets, toys and all types of goodies, all organized and ready for the people in need. I signed up, received a name badge and was on my merry way, excited to be useful. I toured the place to get familiar with my surrounding. The entire place is probably around 2 million sq. ft. I noticed rows as far as the eye could see of mattresses ~ not cots ~ BLOW UP MATTRESSES! All of which had nice pi!
 llows
 and! plenty of blankets. Two to three bottles of water lay on every bed. These full-size to queen-size beds, by the way, were comfortable ~ I laid on one to see for myself.I went to look at the medical area. I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing! A makeshift hospital created in 24 hours! It was unbelievable ~ they even had a pharmacy. I also noticed that they created showers, which would also have hot water. I went upstairs to the third floor to find a HUGE cafeteria created in under 24 hours! Rows of tables, chairs and food everywhere ~ enough to feed an army! I'm not talking about crappy food either. They had Jason's Deli food, apples, oranges, coke, diet coke, lemonade, orange juice, cookies and all types of chips and sandwiches. All the beverages, by the way, were put on ice and chilled! In a matter of about 24 hours or less, an entire mini-city was created by volunteers for the poor evacuees. This was not your rundown shelter ~ it was BUM HEAVEN.
 ! So that was the layout ~ great food, comfy beds, clean showers and free medical help. By the way, there was a library and a theatre room I forgot to mention. Great stuff, right? Well here is what happened on my journey. I started by handing out COLD water bottles to evacuees as they got off the bus. Many would take them and only 20 percent or less said “Thank you.” Lots of them would shake their heads and ask for sodas! So this went on for about 20 to 30 minutes until I was sick of being an unappreciated servant. I figured certainly these folks would appreciate some food! So I went upstairs to serve these beloved evacuees some GOOD food that I wish I could have at the moment! The following statements are graphic, truthful, and discuss UNRATIONAL behavior. Evacuees come slowly to receive this mountain of food that is worth serving to a king! I tell them that we

RE: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates

[Ol' Man River]

thank you, all knowing, most omnipotent michael. your ability to see all truths through all lies is nothing short of supernatural. we are so lucky to have one such as you in our company. do you prefer 'sir' or 'your hinus'?

Michael Norville [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


This is white supremacist propaganda pure and simple! I can't believe you would see fit to perpetuate such obvious exaggerations if not total lies! Where did this story originate? What's its origins? I noticed this fine fiction writer didn't have balls enough to sign his name. In one sentence he's thanking God and in the next he's condemning a "supposed" group of people to hell! Don't spread fires put them out before they can do further harm, please. 
THANK YOU!!
D0wn by that Highwayside -
~ Michael '-/ "Be aware of the time passing by, they say the end it's the wink of an eye" 








In a message dated 9/12/2005 11:05:55 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes:

It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even themayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say in my climate controled home with plenty of fresh waterand a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.

In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:05 AM 






It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even themayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say in my climate controled home with plenty of fresh waterand a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.


In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least.

Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

RE: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates

[Ol' Man River]

i send out stories from the internet only after i get two or three that support eah other. here's another for your reading pleasure. exactly how do you determine 'honesty' in reporting, whatever fits YOUR current belief system? wake up.

from yet another source

Yup pretty much my experience tooI had to leave the Laundromat today to keep from punching out a couple ofN***ers who were BRAGGING about mistreating ppl and DEMANDING what theywanted to eat or discussing their intent to sit on their fat asses whileFEMA Red Cross and couple other places paid for their rents. Oneparticularly irritating ingreatful bitch one said how she has signed a leaseand since they didn't charge her a deposit she was planning on trashing theplace before leaving. !!I have since seen that person AND her disrespectful thieving bastardoffspring who have spent last 2 days strong arming the kids in the complexin my complex and identified which apartment unit she is in. Bright andearly tomorrow the Complex Manager and I WILL be having a VERY long andpointed discussion about this woman.Michael Norville
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


"do you prefer 'sir' or 'your hinus'?"
Let's see, honest, will do you just fine.
D0wn by that Highwayside -
~ Michael '-/
From: "Ol' Man River" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Michael Norville [EMAIL PROTECTED], quad-list@eskimo.comCC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Fwd: IngratesDate: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:54:08 -0700 (PDT)
thank you, all knowing, most omnipotent michael. your ability to see all truths through all lies is nothing short of supernatural. we are so lucky to have one such as you in our company. do you prefer 'sir' or 'your hinus'?












This is white supremacist propaganda pure and simple! I can't believe you would see fit to perpetuate such obvious exaggerations if not total lies! Where did this story originate? What's its origins? I noticed this fine fiction writer didn't have balls enough to sign his name. In one sentence he's thanking God and in the next he's condemning a "supposed" group of people to hell! Don't spread fires put them out before they can do further harm, please. 
THANK YOU!!
D0wn by that Highwayside -
~ Michael '-/ "Be aware of the time passing by, they say the end it's the wink of an eye" 

In a message dated 9/12/2005 11:05:55 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes:
It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even the mayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say in my climate controled home with plenty of fresh water and a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least. 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:05 AM 
It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even the mayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say in my climate controled home with plenty of fresh water and a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least. 


Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You
 Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

RE: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates

[Ol' Man River]

you've come a long ways from "This is white supremacist propaganda pure and simple" to "I don'tknow if I believe all of that "
so do you think nobody said what was writen in the first post or do you just think it was inapropriate for me to send it on?
and to silas, i don't think all blacks are any one thing or another. i happen to have some black friends i enjoy very much. i do think there are a few who spoil the image for everyone else, just like there is in any group.
Michael - do you prefer Mark ?
QuadPirate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






I don'tknow if I believe all of that but I will tell you this.
Here in Arkansas we have several thousand evacuees around the state and a whole bunch in and around Saline county where I live because it's half country living half small town and we have a a bunch of 4H clubs and summer camps etc.. ...housing them and a lot of people have volunteered also mainly churchgroups and retiredcivilians.
One of my aids who works here also works in Wal-Mart and knows a lot of people personally and a lady was telling her that a majority of the people they were making breakfast for were complaining that "it's too early" and wanted them to start at a later time.
Now something this simple is what starts letters like this and then as they keep getting told of course not that they should've been complaining at all no matter how tired you are.
We of all people know how far 2 words can go and I thank my aids every day whether I'm tired or not.

Now what I don't get is why you need anyone cooking or doing anything else but giving the means they need to do it for each other, I mean they have time to take care of themselves.


Mark

---Original Message---


From: Ol' Man River
Date: 09/12/05 12:56:09
To: Michael Norville; quad-list@eskimo.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates

thank you, all knowing, most omnipotent michael. your ability to see all truths through all lies is nothing short of supernatural. we are so lucky to have one such as you in our company. do you prefer 'sir' or 'your hinus'?

Michael Norville [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


This is white supremacist propaganda pure and simple! I can't believe you would see fit to perpetuate such obvious exaggerations if not total lies! Where did this story originate? What's its origins? I noticed this fine fiction writer didn't have balls enough to sign his name. In one sentence he's thanking God and in the next he's condemning a "supposed" group of people to hell! Don't spread fires put them out before they can do further harm, please. 
THANK YOU!!
D0wn by that Highwayside -
~ Michael '-/ "Be aware of the time passing by, they say the end it's the wink of an eye" 








In a message dated 9/12/2005 11:05:55 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes:

It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even themayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say in my climate controled home with plenty of fresh waterand a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.

In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:05 AM 






It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even themayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say in my climate controled home with plenty of fresh waterand a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.


In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really existed? Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least.


Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ

Re: [QUAD-L] Wanted Fugitives from hurricane Area

[Ol' Man River]

that would be a nice goal for the world population in general. if only we could tell the bad guys from the general population. if only we could fingerprint them or something maybe full face and profile photos would help??
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Our newspaper here in St. Louis, Mo. said that in just on spot check of people taken in at Alton, Illinoisabout 35 minutes from here, that 162 at this location are known wanted fugitives from the law. This is just one group of the refugees from the hurricane, I guess having criminals of Any race mixed into the refugee population at all the help locations is going to be a big problem.Too bad the criminals can't be sorted out and put in jail where they belong, and keep them from getting money and free aid they do not deserve.but the system is overwhelmed right now and will take time if ever to catch many of them --plus many are in completely different States than where they are Wanted Fugitives.
 DanDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		Yahoo! for Good 
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 

[QUAD-L] Re: Need new sites

[Ol' Man River]

these aren't MY stories and i'm not THINKING like the authors, and they aren't the only stories i see, they are just INTERESTING stories. you sure jump to a lot of conclusions about people. would you rather NOT see the dark side of our brethren? then delete my posts BEFORE you jump to the wrong conclusions. open your mind a little.

Houston809 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe you need to start looking at some other internet sites. If these are the only stories you’re running into than you’re on some RACIST sites. But this is America and freedom 2 choose. Since you’re feeling like the people writing this non sense than I’ll pray 4 U as I’m praying 4 all the Evacuee’s that have been called some of everything Refugee’s, etc. So if this is the attitude that a few of them might even have I’m sure that no 2 people will react the same in the same situation.Houston On 9/12/05 1:14 PM, "Ol' Man River" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i send out stories from the internet only after i get two or three that support eah other. here's another for your reading pleasure. exactly how do you determine 'honesty' in reporting, whatever fits YOUR current belief system? wake up.from yet another sourceYup pretty much my experience tooI had to leave the Laundromat today to keep from punching out a couple ofN***ers who were BRAGGING about mistreating ppl and DEMANDING what theywanted to eat or discussing their intent to sit on their fat asses whileFEMA Red Cross and couple other places paid for their
 rents. Oneparticularly irritating ingreatful bitch one said how she has signed a leaseand since they didn't charge her a deposit she was planning on trashing theplace before leaving. !!I have since seen that person AND her disrespectful thieving bastardoffspring who have spent last 2 days strong arming the kids in the complexin my complex and identified which apartment unit she is in. Bright andearly tomorrow the Complex Manager and I WILL be having a VERY long andpointed discussion about this woman.Michael Norville [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

"do you prefer 'sir' or 'your hinus'?" 

Let's see, honest, will do you just fine. 

D0wn by that Highwayside - 

~ Michael '-/ 

From: "Ol' Man River" [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Norville [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , quad-list@eskimo.com mailto:quad-list@eskimo.com CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Fwd: IngratesDate: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 10:54:08 -0700 (PDT) 

thank you, all knowing, most omnipotent michael. your ability to see all truths through all lies is nothing short of supernatural. we are so lucky to have one such as you in our company. do you prefer 'sir' or 'your hinus'?

This is white supremacist propaganda pure and simple! I can't believe you would see fit to perpetuate such obvious exaggerations if not total lies! Where did this story originate? What's its origins? I noticed this fine fiction writer didn't have balls enough to sign his name. In one sentence he's thanking God and in the next he's condemning a "supposed" group of people to hell! Don't spread fires put them out before they can do further harm, please. THANK YOU!! D0wn by that Highwayside - ~ Michael '-/"Be aware of the time passing by, they say the end it's the wink of an eye" In a message dated 9/12/2005 11:05:55 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes:It has been in the news. i've seen people demanding help all over the news, even the mayor of new orleans. i can't say i wouldn't do the same though. i hope would have enough sense to appreciate help, but that's easy to say !
 in my
 climate controled home with plenty of fresh water and a belly full of food. now as for people showing hatred and cursing toward people that are helping, all i can say is that hating them back is only going fuel more hatred.In a message dated 9/12/2005 10:02:56 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://by104fd.bay104.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?mailto=1amp;msg=69FBB45B-A93E-4052-A8FC-9036FEBC2527amp;start=0amp;len=8383amp;src="" PROTECTED]amp;cc=amp;bcc=amp;subject=amp;body=amp;curmbox=D31F7541-C863-4436-94C writes:You know, there have been lots of live and taped reports from these areas and not one supports the claim of this Internet story. Don't you suppose we would have seen and heard a little of this negative attitude on camera if it really exi!
 sted?
 Do you suppose all media have been instructed not to publish such reports? Do you suppose they would obey if they WERE asked to suppress such comments? Pretty curious at the least. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://by104fd.bay104.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?mailto=1amp;msg=69FBB45B-A93E-4052-A8FC-9036FEBC2527amp;start=0amp;len=8383amp;src="" PROTECTED]amp;cc=amp;bcc=amp;subject=amp;body=amp;curmbox=D31F7541-C863-4436-94C4-
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://by104fd.bay104.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/compose?mailto=1amp;msg=69FBB45B-A93E-40

Re: [QUAD-L] Why post nonsense

[Ol' Man River]

nonsense and racial trash? another crystal ball owner heard from. what was the REAL story down there then houston? fill us in, ok? i'll be happy when everyone is resettled too.

Houston809 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Why did U even post this non sense. It’s some racist trash. But even if it were true . How is a person that’s life has been totally devastated supposed 2 act and behave when they’ve been through the ordeal that they’ve been through? I’ll be happy when they’ve all found other homes 2 live in and start 2 get their lives back in some sorts. Turn The Other Cheek?From a correspondent in Idaho.((This is from a guy here in Houston who went to volunteer his time to help the hurricane victims. It is pretty sad and disappointing to think people could be so ungrateful.))Katrina Volunteer ~ Another ViewpointSO I VOLUNTEERED..I thought I might inform the few friends I have on my recent traumatic experience. I am going to tell it straight, blunt, raw, and I don't give a damn. Long read, I know but please do read!I
 went to volunteer on Saturday at the George R. Brown convention for two reasons. * I wanted to help people to get a warm fuzzy* Curiosity.I've been watching the new! s lately and have seen scenes that have made me want to vomit. And, no, it wasn't dead bodies, the city under water, or the sludge everywhere. It was PEOPLE’S BEHAVIOR. The people on TV (99 percent being Black) were DEMANDING help. They were not asking nicely, but demanding as if society owed these people something. Well, the honest truth is WE DON'T.Help should be asked for in a kind manner and then appreciated. This is not what the press (FOX in particular) was showing. What I was seeing was a group of people yelling, demanding, looting, killing, raping, and SHOOTING back at the demanded help! So, I'm thinking this can't possibly be true can it? So I decide to submit to the DEMAND for help out of SHOCK. I couldn't believe this to be true of the!
  majority
 of the people who are the weakest of society. So I went to volunteer and help folks out and see the truth. So I will tell the following story and you decide.I arrived at the astrodome only to find ! out that there are too many volunteers and volunteers were needed at the George R. Brown Convention Center. As I was walking up to the Convention Center I noticed a line of cars that wrapped around blocks filled with donations. These were ordinary Houstonians coming with truckloads and trunks full of water, diapers, clothes, blankets, food ~ all types of good stuff. And lots of it was NEW. I felt that warm fuzzy while helping unload these vehicles of these wonderful human beings. I then went inside the building and noticed approximately 100,000 sq. ft. of clothes, shoes, jackets, toys and all types of goodies, all organized and ready for the people in need. I signed up, received a name badge and was on my merry way, excited to be useful. I
 toured the place to get familiar with my surrounding. The entire place is probably around 2 million sq. ft. I noticed rows as far as the eye could see of mattresses ~ not cots ~ BLOW UP MATTRESSES! All of which had nice pillows and! plenty of blankets. Two to three bottles of water lay on every bed. These full-size to queen-size beds, by the way, were comfortable ~ I laid on one to see for myself.I went to look at the medical area. I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing! A makeshift hospital created in 24 hours! It was unbelievable ~ they even had a pharmacy. I also noticed that they created showers, which would also have hot water. I went upstairs to the third floor to find a HUGE cafeteria created in under 24 hours! Rows of tables, chairs and food everywhere ~ enough to feed an army! I'm not talking about crappy food either. They had Jason's Deli food, apples, oranges, coke, diet coke, lemonade, orange juice, cookies and all types of chips!
  and
 sandwiches. All the beverages, by the way, were put on ice and chilled! In a matter of about 24 hours or less, an entire mini-city was created by volunteers for the poor evacuees. This was not your rundown shelter ~ it was BUM HEAVEN. ! So that was the layout ~ great food, comfy beds, clean showers and free medical help. By the way, there was a library and a theatre room I forgot to mention. Great stuff, right? Well here is what happened on my journey. I started by handing out COLD water bottles to evacuees as they got off the bus. Many would take them and only 20 percent or less said “Thank you.” Lots of them would shake their heads and ask for sodas! So this went on for about 20 to 30 minutes until I was sick of being an unappreciated servant. I figured certainly these folks would appreciate some food! So I went upstairs to serve these beloved evacuees some GOOD food that I wish I could have at the moment!
 The following statements are graphic, truthful, and discuss UNRATIONAL behavior. Evacuees come slowly to receive this mountain of food that is worth serving to a king! I 

[QUAD-L] Fwd: Ingrates

[Ol' Man River]

from another list i'm on..Subject: Katrina Volunteer ~ Another ViewpointTurn The Other Cheek?From a correspondent in Idaho.((This is from a guy here in Houston who went to volunteer his time to help the hurricane victims. It is pretty sad and disappointing to think people could be so ungrateful.))Katrina Volunteer ~ Another ViewpointSO I VOLUNTEERED..I thought I might inform the few friends I have on my recent traumatic experience. I am going to tell it straight, blunt, raw, and I don't give a damn. Long read, I know but please do read!I went to volunteer on Saturday at the George R. Brown convention for two reasons. * I wanted to help people to get a warm fuzzy* Curiosity.I've been watching the new!
 s lately
 and have seen scenes that have made me want to vomit. And, no, it wasn't dead bodies, the city under water, or the sludge everywhere. It was PEOPLE’S BEHAVIOR. The people on TV (99 percent being Black) were DEMANDING help. They were not asking nicely, but demanding as if society owed these people something. Well, the honest truth is WE DON'T.Help should be asked for in a kind manner and then appreciated. This is not what the press (FOX in particular) was showing. What I was seeing was a group of people yelling, demanding, looting, killing, raping, and SHOOTING back at the demanded help! So, I'm thinking this can't possibly be true can it? So I decide to submit to the DEMAND for help out of SHOCK. I couldn't believe this to be true of the majority of the people who are the weakest of society. So I went to volunteer and help folks out and see the truth. So I will tell the following story and you decide.I arrived at the astrodome only to find !
 out that
 there are too many volunteers and volunteers were needed at the George R. Brown Convention Center. As I was walking up to the Convention Center I noticed a line of cars that wrapped around blocks filled with donations. These were ordinary Houstonians coming with truckloads and trunks full of water, diapers, clothes, blankets, food ~ all types of good stuff. And lots of it was NEW. I felt that warm fuzzy while helping unload these vehicles of these wonderful human beings. I then went inside the building and noticed approximately 100,000 sq. ft. of clothes, shoes, jackets, toys and all types of goodies, all organized and ready for the people in need. I signed up, received a name badge and was on my merry way, excited to be useful. I toured the place to get familiar with my surrounding. The entire place is probably around 2 million sq. ft. I noticed rows as far as the eye could see of mattresses ~ not cots ~ BLOW UP MATTRESSES! All of which had nice pillows and!
  plenty
 of blankets. Two to three bottles of water lay on every bed. These full-size to queen-size beds, by the way, were comfortable ~ I laid on one to see for myself.I went to look at the medical area. I couldn't believe what my eyes were seeing! A makeshift hospital created in 24 hours! It was unbelievable ~ they even had a pharmacy. I also noticed that they created showers, which would also have hot water. I went upstairs to the third floor to find a HUGE cafeteria created in under 24 hours! Rows of tables, chairs and food everywhere ~ enough to feed an army! I'm not talking about crappy food either. They had Jason's Deli food, apples, oranges, coke, diet coke, lemonade, orange juice, cookies and all types of chips and sandwiches. All the beverages, by the way, were put on ice and chilled! In a matter of about 24 hours or less, an entire mini-city was created by volunteers for the poor evacuees. This was not your rundown shelter ~ it was BUM HEAVEN. !
 So
 that was the layout ~ great food, comfy beds, clean showers and free medical help. By the way, there was a library and a theatre room I forgot to mention. Great stuff, right? Well here is what happened on my journey. I started by handing out COLD water bottles to evacuees as they got off the bus. Many would take them and only 20 percent or less said “Thank you.” Lots of them would shake their heads and ask for sodas! So this went on for about 20 to 30 minutes until I was sick of being an unappreciated servant. I figured certainly these folks would appreciate some food! So I went upstairs to serve these beloved evacuees some GOOD food that I wish I could have at the moment! The following statements are graphic, truthful, and discuss UNRATIONAL behavior. Evacuees come slowly to receive this mountain of food that is worth serving to a king! I tell them that we have two types of great deli sandwiches to choose from ~ ham and t!
 urkey.
 Many look at the food in disgust and DEMAND burgers, pizza, and even McDonalds! Jason's deli is better than McDonalds! Only one out of ten people who took something would say "Thank you." The rest took items as if it was their God-given right to be served without a shred of appreciation! They would ask for beer and liquor.They complained that we didn't have good enough food. They refused 

Re: [QUAD-L] mri?

[Ol' Man River]

my c3 and c4 are wired together with a 3 or 4 inch piece of metal wire. in my MRI the whole area looked black and smudged - pretty uninformative. there certainly was no explosion or ripping, just much interfearance on the pictire. dave


Fragile [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
has anyone here with metal in their neck ever had an mri? my doc has ordered one, but my grandmother is sure it's going to rip my neck apart because of some show she saw on tv. Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Re: [QUAD-L] Katrina timeline

[Ol' Man River]

Yes that was I. What's your point? Do you have more "look the other away and this will all go away" advice to offer? You don't think we should see what went wrong at FEMA? You are satisfied with the LA. governer BlancoNOT using the hundreds of school busses to evacuate all the people they could carry? Do you have anything constructave at all to offer here?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Pardon me if i'm wrong but are'nt you the one that wrote PAGES about HOW STUPID they all were for LIVING BELOW SEA LEVELand not doing more to move to better area's and improve their lives as you and your wife did from Michigan to Arizona ? AND about how many have way to many kids and rape and rob and so on ??? 
 DanDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Katrina timeline

[Ol' Man River]

i've done over 125$ so far and a lot of clothes. open mouth and insert foot. you stopped conversing because you can't pursue your current ill thoughtout diatribes. a little more think and less emotion before writing would do you both well.
elburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Good job Dan, 
I also been trying to help, I gave the red cross 100$ and our church has took up over a 1000$. Their collecting food and clothes also. Ive offered my home for a coupel of desplaced victims. Your wasting your time trying to reason with this guy, he preaches a good sermon. I wonder what he has done to help, besides run his mouth. Thats what went wrong in the first place, to much talking and no action. 
Silas 

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; quad-list@eskimo.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Katrina timeline

 As a matter of fact I am part of a group that RAISED thousands of dollars for the victims in a fund raiser . And talk about busses--one group PRE-PAID over 21 thousand dollars for busses to take them out of the area...ONLY to have police and other officials confenscate all the busses from them. 
 DanDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Re: Fw: [QUAD-L] you fatalists will LOVE this.

[Ol' Man River]

you call it backing up, i call it inserting words like SOME where you are understanding ALL.

Silas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Backing up again Dave. Lol. You win ive heard enough of your sermons! 
Silas 

- Original Message - 
From: Ol' Man River 
To: Silas Shelburne 
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] you fatalists will LOVE this.

So just what part do you disagree with Silas? Do you deny that there ARE fatalists, or that some might be living in New Olreans (who by the way not only think the government is their enemy but are out shooting atgovernment helicopters that are trying to save them)? I am not including EVERYONE in New Orleans in any one group or another, and I am certainly not poking fun at anyone truley suffering from anything anywhere New Orleans included.My problem is with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own future and take any opportunity available to 'even the playing field' - and that DOES include looters taking plazma TVs and guns in this time of trial under the guize that they NEED them.All thinking men KNOW why they take such things and THAT is truely laughable as they are caught and make up stories of unfairness and subserviance at the hands of yours and my
 grandparents.

By the way, I'm glad you agree with me about fate having almost nothing to do with Katrina UNLESS of course you take into consideration that New Orleans is in the path of Carribbean hurricaines and it can dodge the bullit only so long. Tell me something Silas, if someone puts one bullit in a six shooter and spins the barrel and pulls the trigger, how many times to you think they could do this beforea shot gets fired? Fate would tend to favor the number 6. Theodds of hurricaines hitting New Orleans is smaller but it's the same principle. 

Silas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




My god Dave, 
Do you actually think people suffering and dieing is entertainment, your one sick cookie. You should louse everything you have then see how entertaining it would be! You set on your high thron and poke fun out of these peoples misfortunes. By the way fate had nothing to do with Katrinia nore did the Iraqe rebels that are taking the credit, nobody but God can control mother nature. 
Silas 

- Original Message - 
From: Ol' Man River 
To: quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 10:08 AM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] you fatalists will LOVE this.

I'm not a fatalist Greg. I also don't agree with the New World Orderadvocates. I don't think the government is out to get me and I don't think we are headed towards a police state.

I DO think there is a small percentage of any group that are followers rather than leaders and a small percentage of them who need to be told where to go and what to do. Those people go on about how unfair life is, how much somebody owes them somethiing in life, and how everyone is against them. They buy guns and food beyond their needs, they preach all kinds of misinformed conclusions about how"THE GOVERNMENT" is out to get them and they form little groups. One of these groups calls themselves the new world order.  

If nothing else, they DO provide the rest of us with an amusing form of entertainment. Dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Dave,you are so right, we have reached our police state, many of these refugees are going to FEMA camps right now. I guess the people will not wake up in time. Alex Jones, Jeff Rense, have tried to expose the resources for the plan, kaboom

rense.com 

infowars.net

Greg

www.3-7-12.com 

In a message dated 9/6/2005 9:00:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

here's an interesting site on New Orleans. http://infowars.net/Pages/Sept05/050905New_World_Orleans.htmthe sky is falling.
Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 


Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 
Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

[Ol' Man River]

i'm not eating anything silas nor am i about to. i'm trying to present alternatives to living under the sea on the gulf coast. i haven't seen any ideas from your corner - are you a fatalist who believes some people are destined for a life of crap, who have no power over their own future, who MUST be the downtrodden of society, who's future has already been determined? phoenix has so far flown in 1000 refugees from new orleans and put them up at our sports arena. their addresses have been changed and they are being transported to and fromthe employment agencies to apply for available jobs. suitable housing is being located and finances worked out between lenders, landlords, and social services. if the other 48 would do the same, we can fix up quite a few folks withbetter lives.as long as new orleans has to rebuild so much now, why not build on the high side of town, above the se!
 a where
 this type of disaster can be avoided in the future? they could take the bus down town anytime they want to visittheir fatalistic relatives who CAN'T leave and provide a shelter for same when the next hurricaine roars through. dave


 Silas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Are we eating crow are what? Just where would you expect a 100, 000.00 people to move too, you've seem to have all the answers. 
Silas 

- Original Message - 
From: Ol' Man River 
To: David K. Kelmer ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Hello


i never meant to imply that anyone was lazy because they are poor or poor because they are lazy. the numbers here don't speak to either case. i am saying they weren't too smart to remain living under the sea in hurricane alley. i understand roots and ties to neighborhoods and all, still they chose to remain under the sea in h.a. now that the place has been wiped out,I'm saying they won't be very smart to move back to the old neighborhood after it is pumped out again. i think it would be a big mistake to set the trap of destructionn again but i feel confident the ruling powers will do just that. they like roots too. it looks like there are a lot safer places tolive at the mercy of the government without putting ones life in direct danger like waiting for the next hurricane. why do you suppose they stay there, Dave? there must be some reasonable explanation. are you going t!
 ! o try
 and tell me they can't move?Dave


"David K. Kelmer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi Dave,

All thing considered...being poor doesn't necessarilymean one is lazy, as this survey of June 2001from the Brookings Institution shows. It has some interesting figures, no emotions, aboutNew Orleans that may be surprising to some. I hope this helps clarify the facts, at least up to 2001 on the working poor in N.O.

Center on Urban  Metropolitan Policy
Rewarding Work: The Impact of the Earned Income Tax Credit in Greater New Orleans
"Despite a great deal of public and policy interest in the working poor and working families, particularly in the aftermath of welfare reform, there is little understanding of who the working poor are and where they live. Families may claim an Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) if they are working but not earning more than roughly 200 percent of the federal poverty level. Therefore, this survey uses EITC receipt as a measure of the number and location of low-income working residents in a metropolitan area. This New Orleans survey is one of a series looking at the EITC and its value to 27 regions around the country. Using IRS data, this survey mapped the geographic distribution of the EITC to help these regions better understand where working poor families in their areas live. This survey confirms that working families live throughout the New Orlea!
 ! ns
 metropolitan area, and that the EITC is an important source of income for these families and their jurisdictions."

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/es/urban/EITC/NewOrleans.pdf#search='new%20orleans%20welfare%20rate'
This figures on the Demographics of three sample cities are fromWikipedia, free encyclopedia, last modified 18 August 2005, 3 September 2005, and 5 September 2005. 

Wichita Falls, TX- The median income for a household in the city is $32,554, and the median income for a family is $39,911. Males have a median income of $27,609 versus $21,877 for females. The per capita income for the city is $16,761. 13.9% of the population and 10.8% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 17.7% of those under the age of 18 and 10.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.
Phoenix, AZ - The median income for a household in the city was $41,207, and the median income for a family was $46,467. Males had a median income of $32,820 versus $27,466 for females. The per capita income for the city was $19,833. 15.8% of the population and 11.5% of families were below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 21.0% of those under th

Re: [QUAD-L] Happy labor day

[Ol' Man River]

Labor Day, the first Monday in September, is a creation of the labor movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and well-being of our country.

http://www.dol.gov/opa/aboutdol/laborday.htm

wheel - you are SSOO bad. WHACK !![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



In a message dated 05/09/2005 20:35:05 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Happy Labor Day to you too Houston.I think you and I missed StuntmanBBQ, with Warrior's friend, Crazy Mike.WIn a message dated 9/5/05 12:45:32 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Happy Labor Day Everyone :)Houston 

Ok I'm being a dumbass again folks... whats Labor Day??

Love Smurf xxxDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello, Hello, Helloooooooooo! Is there anyone out there.

[Ol' Man River]

never will be a perfect answer, w. just like left in general. just like food, drink, health, occupation, and friends. but thereARE informed and uninformed decisions that will be made as well.
btw - look at that crazy tax paid government support flooding the area now !!! immediate help in the 1st hours is difficult - but compounded by the new (probably soon to be ex) leader of FEMA. what a terrible place and way to 'learn' one's job.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 9/6/05 11:06:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i'm thinking there aren't many more than 2 or 3 places MORE dangerous to live. When deciding on where to live, one has to consider the plus and minuses of each location. And the potential job market. And its location in relation to the rest ofthe family. The SouthEast has much to offer. And we recently discovered much totake away. There is no perfect answer... yet.WDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello, Hello, Helloooooooooo! Is there anyone out there.

[Ol' Man River]

i'm thinking there aren't many more than 2 or 3 places MORE dangerous to live. anywhere on the gulf coast and the bottom half of the east coast is dangerous but UNDER THE SEA wins 1st place formultiple fatalityvulnerability. shakey town is a distant second as property is the big loser for shakes. river beds - only if you build on the flood planes - similar mentality as lower new orleans. any big towns for knives and guns sure but not thousands in a week in any one town. freezing climates - by the tens of thousands?not hardly.
tornados - http://www.tornadoproject.com/toptens/1.htm 




May 1-10, 2003: Record number of tornadoes hit the USA. ... March 18, 1925: The Tri-State tornado kills 689 people in Illinois, Indiana and Missouri. ...
( they are counting in the hundreds not thousands)

The chicago fire of 1891 = "300 Chicagoans were dead, 90,000 homeless, and the property loss was $200 million. "

The Great 1906 San Francisco Earthquake And Fire
When it is remembered, also, that over six hundred lives were lost in the disaster, it would appear that matters could hardly have been worse

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do you suppose they stay there, Dave? There must be some reasonable explanation. Are you going to try and tell me they can't move? Dave I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about that as I know that thereare a thousand more spots in North America that are equally dangerousand perhaps more dangerous than living in New Orleans, and all that Jazz.The Western Plains that are subjected to tornados everyday during the 9 monthseason. Those who live on the Mississippi River, from Minnesota to Gulf whenit overflows due to ice blockage. California, with their earthquakes, fire and periodsof little or no water. The snowbelt and those who must survive each year, wheresnow is measured by the yards and not inches. Yes, there are a lot more dangerous places to live, knowing dead might be at yourdoorstep at an!
 ytime. I
 wish that I had the perfect planWDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

[QUAD-L] this is a classic...

[Ol' Man River]

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded thatEnglish spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this willmake the sivil servants jump with joy.The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear upkonfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expected to reach the stage where more komplikated c!
 hanges
 are possible.Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the language is disgrasful and it should go away.By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords containing "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl.Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tuunderstand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.If zis mad you smil, pleas pas on to oza pepl__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

[QUAD-L] Re: Is there anyone out there.

[Ol' Man River]

ooohhh baby.. not to mention the consequences of Roosevelt dam failing. it is at the top of the salt river and would cause the failure of two more dams downstream resulting in most of south phoenix being put under water. they were concerned with just that in '79, '80, '81 during one of our 500 year floods. they were letting water go from all reservoirs at max capability (300,000 cfs) and still the water level was rising. i don't remember many people evacuating the area at the time and there would be only about 1 hour warning should the dam fail. human nature seems pretty predictable don't you think?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Before this is over... we are going to discover that a great deal of people will be affected. Both Left and Right. Ups and Downs. Reds and Blues. Insured and uninsured.Intelligent and those who are uneducated. The Hurricane, shows little mercy. Had itbeen a bit more favorable, the levy would have held and the damage not so great. Unfortunately, Hurricanes don't take that into consideration.Me personally?? I'm going to wait a couple of months before I cast judgment on anyone. I want and hope to get all of the facts before judging anyone's actions orjudgments. (I'm also concerned about all those who live in the valley below thegreat Hoover Dam)WIn a message dated 9/6/05 11:20:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: never will be a perfect answer, w. just like left in general. just like food, drink, heal!
 th,
 occupation, and friends. but there ARE informed and uninformed decisions that will be made as well.btw - look at that crazy tax paid government support flooding the area now !!! immediate help in the 1st hours is difficult - but compounded by the new (probably soon to be ex) leader of FEMA. what a terrible place and way to 'learn' one's job. Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Re: [QUAD-L] Drinking in bed

[Ol' Man River]

i was thinking of buying 20 feet of 1/4 inch tubing to hook to the drain of my legbag and run it into the john. i regularly excrete about 3 qts of liquid at night. that would sure simplify things. the 1/8 inch tubing sounds like a great idea for input especially with the source below the head so there's necessary syphon back to keep one dry after sucking. i don't usu get thirsty at night but instead don't sleep worth crap without sleepytime drugs. some nights get pretty long indeed. dave
Greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Also, instead of costly specialty straws.
In past days, I used an IV line or bought rubber tubing from a hardware store on a 100 foot roll. That way it can be as long as you want, and best, it's a lot cheaper.
Greg


- Original Message - 
From: Joan Anglin 
To: quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 9:12 PM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Drinking in bed
Hi everyone 
I have a question, those of you like me, who cannot reach for a drink at night, what you do to stay hydrated throughout the night. I only have a PCA that comes in the morning for four hours, and a private PCA that comes for one hour to put me to bed at 9 p.m.. From 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. I am dependent on various people to give me a drink. And from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m. I often get very thirsty. And I just bought a drink straw (J. A. M straw) for $47 hoping that it would solve the problem. Unfortunately I do not have enough movement to turn my head far enough so that I do not have to have the straw hanging straight down over my mouth, which means that it touches me whenever I moved my face -- rather annoying. It also has a very hard end which is not comfortable to grab hold of, and if I do take a drink I have to blow the water back up the straw so that it does not drip on my face. Do any of you have any suggestions? I live alone with two handicapped guys that have been with me fo!
 r 25
 years. They are very good at helping me out, but this drink problem has me stifled. Looking forward to some awesome answers. JoanDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Drinking Driving a bed

[Ol' Man River]

that's right up there with eating bugs for me. i know it can be done but Fear Factor is totally out for me. i gag just watching them eat that slop. i sure hope i never get into the position of having to eat bugs to survive. if so, i'll be dancing sooner than i thought.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Recycling in not a new idea. The military has had field recycling units for over 20 years. After all, what is urine, but sterile waste with some junk in it. Urine is veryeasy to process. Solid waste is another matter. (lol)WIn a message dated 9/6/05 2:20:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: you scared me thinking you were going to suggest recycling like on the shuttle. Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Re: [QUAD-L] Drinking Driving a bed

[Ol' Man River]

you scared me thinking you were going to suggest recycling like on the shuttle. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sounds like its time for someone to develop a Rube Goldberg invention to processliquid waste, in several steps, from the bag, to the waste processor, as in atoilet.A mime, is a terrible thing to waste!WIn a message dated 9/6/05 2:00:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: i was thinking of buying 20 feet of 1/4 inch tubing to hook to the drain of my legbag and run it into the john. i regularly excrete about 3 qts of liquid at night. that would sure simplify things. the 1/8 inch tubing sounds like a great idea for input especially with the source below the head so there's necessary syphon back to keep one dry after sucking. i don't usu get thirsty at night but instead don't sleep worth crap without sleepytime drugs. some nights get pretty long indeed. dave Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Can't run or hide

[Ol' Man River]

ok so you ARE a fatalist. there is nopredetermined time for anyone, my time to die was in 1967 but i decided not to go - i cheated death. there'll be pleanty of time for that later.





Noun
1.
fatalist - anyone who submits to the belief that they are powerless to change their destiny 
determinist, predestinarian, predestinationist
necessitarian - someone who does not believe the doctrine of free will
you have lots of company, most of those in southern new orleans.

the operative word you missed below is MORE dangerous. Yes many large cities are dangerous but not manyMORE so than new orleans. i'm talking of multiple deaths in a single act here


Houston809 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I’m not understanding your thinking or rationality behind it. New orleans is a dangerous place 2 live. Gary, Indiana, Chicago, New York, Detroit, Miami, Atlanta every major city in the USA has crimes and murders are considered dangerous places 2 live. So if everyone moves some place else than those places become over crowed less jobs crime rates rise than its time 2 move again. If it’s your time 2 die than no matter where U R U will die!!On 9/6/05 11:05 AM, "Ol' Man River" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i'm thinking there aren't many more than 2 or 3 places MORE dangerous to live. anywhere on the gulf coast and the bottom half of the east coast is dangerous but UNDER THE SEA wins 1st place for multiple fatality vulnerability. shakey town is a distant second as property is the big loser for shakes. river beds - only if you build on the flood planes - similar mentality as lower new orleans. any big towns for knives and guns sure but not thousands in a week in any one town. freezing climates - by the tens of thousands? not hardly. tornados - http://www.tornadoproject.com/toptens/1.htm May 1-10, 2003: Record number of tornadoes hit the USA. ... March 18, 1925: The Tri-State
 tornado kills 689 people in Illinois, Indiana and Missouri. ...( they are counting in the hundreds not thousands)The chicago fire of 1891 = "300 Chicagoans were dead, 90,000 homeless, and the property loss was $200 million. "The Great 1906 San Francisco Earthquake And FireWhen it is remembered, also, that over six hundred lives were lost in the disaster, it would appear that matters could hardly have been worse[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why do you suppose they stay there, Dave? There must be some reasonable explanation. Are you going to try and tell me they can't move? Dave I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about that as I know that thereare a thousand more spots in North America that are equally dangerousand perhaps more dangerous than living in New Orleans, and all that Jazz.The Western Plains that are subjected to tornados everyday during the 9 monthseason. Those who live on the Mississippi River, from Minnesota to Gulf whenit overflows due to ice blockage. California, with their earthquakes, fire and periodsof little or no water. The snowbelt and those who must survive each year, wheresnow is measured by the yards and not inches. Yes, there are a lot more dangerous places to live, knowing dead might be at yourdoorstep at an! ytime. I wish that I ha!
 d the
 perfect planWDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/index.html __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix
 AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

[QUAD-L] you fatalists will LOVE this.

[Ol' Man River]

here's an interesting site on New Orleans. http://infowars.net/Pages/Sept05/050905New_World_Orleans.htmthe sky is falling.Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

[Ol' Man River]

i never meant to imply that anyone was lazy because they are poor or poor because they are lazy. the numbers here don't speak to either case. i am saying they weren't too smart to remain living under the sea in hurricane alley. i understand roots and ties to neighborhoods and all, still they chose to remain under the sea in h.a. now that the place has been wiped out,I'm saying they won't be very smart to move back to the old neighborhood after it is pumped out again. i think it would be a big mistake to set the trap of destructionn again but i feel confident the ruling powers will do just that. they like roots too. it looks like there are a lot safer places tolive at the mercy of the government without putting ones life in direct danger like waiting for the next hurricane. why do you suppose they stay there, Dave? there must be some reasonable explanation. are you going t!
 o try and
 tell me they can't move?Dave
 

"David K. Kelmer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Hi Dave,

All thing considered...being poor doesn't necessarilymean one is lazy, as this survey of June 2001from the Brookings Institution shows. It has some interesting figures, no emotions, aboutNew Orleans that may be surprising to some. I hope this helps clarify the facts, at least up to 2001 on the working poor in N.O.

Center on Urban  Metropolitan Policy
Rewarding Work: The Impact of the Earned Income Tax Credit in Greater New Orleans
"Despite a great deal of public and policy interest in the working poor and working families, particularly in the aftermath of welfare reform, there is little understanding of who the working poor are and where they live. Families may claim an Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) if they are working but not earning more than roughly 200 percent of the federal poverty level. Therefore, this survey uses EITC receipt as a measure of the number and location of low-income working residents in a metropolitan area. This New Orleans survey is one of a series looking at the EITC and its value to 27 regions around the country. Using IRS data, this survey mapped the geographic distribution of the EITC to help these regions better understand where working poor families in their areas live. This survey confirms that working families live throughout the New Orlea!
 ns
 metropolitan area, and that the EITC is an important source of income for these families and their jurisdictions."

http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/es/urban/EITC/NewOrleans.pdf#search='new%20orleans%20welfare%20rate'
This figures on the Demographics of three sample cities are fromWikipedia, free encyclopedia, last modified 18 August 2005, 3 September 2005, and 5 September 2005. 

Wichita Falls, TX- The median income for a household in the city is $32,554, and the median income for a family is $39,911. Males have a median income of $27,609 versus $21,877 for females. The per capita income for the city is $16,761. 13.9% of the population and 10.8% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 17.7% of those under the age of 18 and 10.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.
Phoenix, AZ - The median income for a household in the city was $41,207, and the median income for a family was $46,467. Males had a median income of $32,820 versus $27,466 for females. The per capita income for the city was $19,833. 15.8% of the population and 11.5% of families were below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 21.0% of those under the age of 18 and 10.3% of those 65 and older were living below the poverty line.
New Orleans, LA - The median income for a household in the city is $27,133, and the median income for a family is $32,338. Males have a median income of $30,862 versus $23,768 for females. The per capita income for the city is $17,258. 27.9% of the population and 23.7% of families are below the poverty line. Out of the total population, 40.3% of those under the age of 18 and 19.3% of those 65 and older are living below the poverty line.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USOl' Man River [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

ok i see we are all emotion and no common sense here. i don't mean they are staying this week because they arelazy, I'm saying they aren't too smart watching hurricanes blow in all over the place the last 2, 3, or 4 years while living under the sea. I visited there once and couldn't wait to get back above ground. anyone with common sense would think it's only a matter of time until n.o. takes a hit. sure it was worse than anyone expected. I'm thinking if i lived there, i'd be taking a bus ride to high ground when one headed for me. now why would anyone think all quads are bitter and nasty because of my comments? do you think all blacks are stupid because so many stayed in n.o. watching the storm blow in on them? of course not. maybe they will think, let's check with those quads next time a storm blows this way. right that'll happen. I'm not 

Re: [QUAD-L] It's official

[Ol' Man River]

quarter centurey - noshit. remember counting the days...then weeks... then months...? me too.
dave c3 1967
Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I am officially an antique quadriplegic, paralyzed from the neck down 25 years ago on Labor Day- PeterDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

[Ol' Man River]

i am very compassionate for the people stranded in n.o. all the while knowing there is very little i can do to help them. now i hope we/they take the intelligent step to NOT RETURN to living under the sea in hurricaine alley. that part of n.o. needs to blocked off and returned to the sea where it belongs. there's pleanty of room above sea level in la. to rebuild. if they choose to return, or stay, it will be hard to temper compassion based on stupidity.Silas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Hey Corie, 
Good post, the poor people just couldn't get out. That doesn't mean their lazy like some people on this list are saying, their cheap labor made the city function. 
Silas 

- Original Message - 
From: Corie Jones 
To: quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

Well said Lana! I am totally shocked at a few people on this list and their replies about this tragedy. I can't believe the lack of compassion being shown by the comments that these people (over 100,000) should have evacuated and therefore have no right to complain that they are without food, water, shelter, medication, and medical care. As Lana pointed out, these people who did not evacuate were the poor, elderly, sick, and disabled. They did not have the means to leave, without money, transportation, or being too sick, old, or disabled.These people should have been HELPED to evacuate before the hurricane, not left behind. And for people to make comments that these suffering people should have known what would happen or should have gotten out, is ridiculous!This was a natural disaster that could have happened anywhere to anyone of us and I can't believe anyone could be anything but compassionate for these people and want to!
  help in
 any way!Corie

- Original Message - 
From: Lana Baugh 
To: quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 1:54 PM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina


Folks have some empathy. 

From what I understand there are people there that could have left. This includes a criminal element to see how they could benefit.

However, the majority of people who did not leave were ill, elderly, disabled, the individuals caring for them and the poor. One of the dead sitting covered by a sheet outside the superdome was in a wheelchair. Poor means it was the end of the month and they had no money to get out of there. I’ve been that poor! If you haven’t you really don’t understand.

There were people who stayed because they didn’t think it would be that bad. They made a huge mistake. I’m sure they regret it. Haven’t you ever made a huge mistake and later regretted it. 

They all still need and deserve help. We help people in other countries in like situations. What’s wrong with helping fellow Americans?

Lana
Gabe’s momDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] USA for ___

[Ol' Man River]

amen to that david. any part of the country not prone to natural disaster is certainly vulnerable to terrorist attack. poisioning the water would probably be the easiest and most effective assult. if any of that happens here, i'll be the 1st one on the road out of here. iif we just continue to build and expandhere in the desert where the natural resources already can't support us all, i will plan on leaving before we have to ration water or power. i'm considering a reverse mortgage right now while prices are high - this can't last. 

"David K. Kelmer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Hi Dave,

I remember when I moved to Phoenix in the 60's,before they put the CAP in, the city reliedon the Roosevelt Irrigation Ditch for a lot of its water. With the CAP in they are getting more water from the Colorado River.

Hoover Dam -

After considering the concerns of all interested parties, Secretary Hoover drafted the Colorado River Compact. The Compact proposed dividing the Colorado basin into two parts, the upper and lower. Water from the upper basin would supply Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, and Wyoming, while the water from the lower basin would be used by Arizona, California, and Nevada. Hoover Dam, built during the Great Depression, drew men desperate for work to a remote and rugged canyon near Las Vegas. There they struggled against brutal heat, choking dust and perilous heights to build a colossus of concrete that brought electricity and water to millions, transforming the American Southwest. Todaythe seventeen main turbinesat this powerhouse generate 2,074 megawattsof hydroelectric power.

CAP -
What is the length of the canal? 336 miles from Lake Havasu City to Tucson.

How much did the project cost? CAP cost $3.6 billion to construct. According to the contract with the federal government, $1.65 billion has to be repaid.

Who gets CAP water? There are three classifications of users: municipal (e.g., cities such as Phoenix, Mesa, and Scottsdale), agricultural (we commonly deliver water to agricultural irrigation districts such as the Maricopa-Stanfield Irrigation District), and Indian communities (12 tribes have allocations).

How much water is in the canal? The canal will deliver an average of 1.5 million acre feet of Colorado River water annually. If the canal were operated full-bore year round, the capacity would be approximately 2.2 million acre feet.

Why was this project built? The state of Arizona is suffering from a 2.5 million acre foot groundwater overdraft. This means that 2.5 million acre-feet of groundwater are being removed from the ground faster than nature can replace it. This can cause serious structural damage to homes, agricultural lands and industry. In an effort to offset this problem, CAP was authorized to counteract the overdraft by providing an alternative source of surface water.

How is terrorism prevented? The entire length of the canal is fenced and CAP has a security force that patrols the canal by land and by air. There are alarms at all key structures, pumping plants, turnouts, and check structures. Regular water quality tests also would alert us to contamination.


Of course, God forbid, If any 'natural disaster' were to interrupt the water or the power from either of these two'man-made' projects, I think the people of AZ might be in for a rough time.


With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USA 
Ol' Man River [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Many places in Africa need exactly what New Orleans needs, a U-HAUL. Guess what, that's not a good place to live. Either there's too much water or not enough, in either case, weather is tough to change. If you can't dig a well to get water or build a good dyke to keep it out - better off to move. Staying put and crying about the weather if futile. When shakey town gets shook and most of the town is destroyed and most of the population is killed then maybe it's time for them to make the same decision. If a few shakes here and there don't bother you that much then oh well. If you don't like seeing whole cities or countrys wiped out by mother nature, then it's time to wake up and move.


Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I was just thinking about all the Hollywood Tycoons and artists who *have*
the clout to make a difference.

USA FOR AFRICA (1983ish) sold millions of copies to help a country that is no
better off today than they were from the monetary help back then.

I don't see a concert effort like USA for NEW ORLEANS coming together
anytime soon.

Ideally such nation-renowned events should take place before the
next natural disaster hits.

It's as if folks blindfold themselves into that ~it can't happen here~ mindset.

Wait till a tidal wave hits L.A.!!! And/or a quake in Calif is quite overdue...
especially along the fault line. The fault line (and it's previous destruction)
hasn't stopped folks from risky living.

Lori Michaelson
C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post
Tucson, AZ









Dave 

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

[Ol' Man River]

ok i see we are all emotion and no common sense here. i don't mean they are staying this week because they arelazy, i'm saying they aren't too smart watching hurricanes blow in all over the place the last 2, 3, or 4 years while living under the sea. I visited there once and couldn't wait to get back above ground. anyone with common sense would think it's only a matter of time until n.o. takes a hit. sure it was worse than anyone expected. i'm thinking if i lived there, i'd be taking a bus ride to high ground when one headed for me. now why would anyone think all quads are bitter and nasty because of my comments? do you think all blacks are stupid because so many stayed in n.o. watching the storm blow in on them? of course not. maybe they will think, let's check with those quads next time a storm blows this way. right that'll happen. i'm not bitter or mean or in pain!
  or
 sleepy or anything else you might blame on me. i AM however, dissappointed that the people in those under the sea slums don't try very hard to get out and do something positive with their lives. you think they can't get a manual labor job and move out of there to a safer slum somewhere? you think they HAVE to stay thereand live like they do? you think no relative or friend anywhere in the country wouldn't help them move out and start a new life above ground somewhere? i'm a little curious as the where the big water trucks are - the military has lots of them, the dairies have nothing but big tankers that could be filled with water and driven right to most of these people. where are they? they really need my dollar a quart fufu water? i don't think so. we have government agencies dedicated to these types of rescues, paid for by you and me - we've already given much more than 5 10 or 20 bucks. if i had a tanker !
 truck,
 i'd fill it with water and drive it there - a few quarts just isn't the right solution. and if we allow those low parts of town to be rebuilt and reinhabited - WE are fools. yes i'm compassionate - let's get them out of there and get them relocated to a safer place. this shouldn't be as formidable task as we are seeing on the news. something is very wrong in our government paid rescue agencies.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Dave,
Who peed in your coffee? Don't let folks hear you rant like that. They will think all quads are bitter nasty folks with no sense of compassion for others. Thousands get killed in car wrecks and damned if they don't still buy more cars. If they had any sense they'd all fly. Its much safer.
gsus
Just thank god it wasn't you and pry your wallet open and bust loose a few greenbacks.

I use to be ill tempered till I found out I need pain meds. When you feel better the world ain't so bad.

john

In a message dated 9/3/2005 5:39:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

no it's not because they made a mistake that they don't deserve compassion, it's because they PREFER to live lives of lazy 'you owe me a living', sit on their asses, expect to be given something by the evil government, and steal whatever they want because life has cheated them that they don't deserve much compassion. they made concious choices to be leeches of society rather than make any attempt to better themselves. lazy leeches aren't deserving of much compassion especially while they takejoy in shooting their own feet off on public tv all the while blaming you and me for their past and current situations. we saw the same thing in l.a. when the cops got off for beating rodney king. "you owe me", self destructive mentalitybecause they refuse to take responsibility for their lives.

QuadPirate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






So you saying some people don't deserve our compassion because they made a freakin mistake?
And whoare those?
Go ahead and tell me who they are since you know they're exact situation because I don't think you know anything about what really happened there unless you were there.
Was that clear?

And tell me what part of the planet isn't vurnerable to a majordisaster?
Mother nature is everywhere Stunt.

Mark

---Original Message---


From: Your Name
Date: 09/02/05 20:47:53
To: QuadPirate; Tim Syfert; quad-list@eskimo.com; Jim Lubin
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

OK, lack of clarity.
Compassion for those deserving of it has not been compromised by any of
the posts I've read here, so you leave me wondering???
I personaly wouldn't live below sea level even if I wasn't in a
wheelchair.
I feel more for those who lived in the areas other than New Orleans
which were wiped out.
Why?
Common sense tells you not to live in hurricane alley below sea level.
Stunt

 No didn't say anything about the government.

 Mark
.

Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

[Ol' Man River]

well, that's cute BUT - looking at the medical advances - even the industrial revolution jumping us from the middle ages to a very advanced society speaks differently. i AM curious at parts of the world that continue to live in the stone age though. they don't have to figure out HOW to better their status - all they need to do is get up and follow directions. if the starving people can't drill water wells - with help of course - and learn to grow crops and support themselves, what exactly is the problem? being tied to crappy parts of the earth that can't support life is a nice homey concept but if phoenix suddenly turned into a place that couldn't sustain life - i'd move. i'd camp out, i'd carry groceries., i'd pick fruit, i'd GROW fruit, i'd shovel manure - but i would do what it takes to survive.if i fould i had chosen a place that was dangerous or hit by lightning often, i'd move again. i'd preserv!
 e my
 family by legal means. i would NOT depend on taking food from you to keep myself alive. if i did get hit by lightning, i'd appreciate any help to get out of there and find a new life but i would definately move. i know 'that's easy for me to say'. yes it is, i did just that 30 years ago to get out of mighigan where it freezes and i would do it again in a minute if my home was destroyed and in regular danger of distruction by anything.

 Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







"Men have never fully used [their] powers to advance the good in life, because they have waited upon some power external to themselves and to nature to do the work they are responsible for doing." 

--- John Dewey

---Original Message---


From: Ol' Man River
Date: 09/03/05 14:39:22
To: QuadPirate; Tim Syfert; quad-list@eskimo.com; Jim Lubin; Your Name
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

no it's not because they made a mistake that they don't deserve compassion, it's because they PREFER to live lives of lazy 'you owe me a living', sit on their asses, expect to be given something by the evil government, and steal whatever they want because life has cheated them that they don't deserve much compassion. they made concious choices to be leeches of society rather than make any attempt to better themselves. lazy leeches aren't deserving of much compassion especially while they takejoy in shooting their own feet off on public tv all the while blaming you and me for their past and current situations. we saw the same thing in l.a. when the cops got off for beating rodney king. "you owe me", self destructive mentalitybecause they refuse to take responsibility for their lives.

QuadPirate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






So you saying some people don't deserve our compassion because they made a freakin mistake?
And whoare those?
Go ahead and tell me who they are since you know they're exact situation because I don't think you know anything about what really happened there unless you were there.
Was that clear?

And tell me what part of the planet isn't vurnerable to a majordisaster?
Mother nature is everywhere Stunt.

Mark

---Original Message---


From: Your Name
Date: 09/02/05 20:47:53
To: QuadPirate; Tim Syfert; quad-list@eskimo.com; Jim Lubin
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Hello

OK, lack of clarity.
Compassion for those deserving of it has not been compromised by any of
the posts I've read here, so you leave me wondering???
I personaly wouldn't live below sea level even if I wasn't in a
wheelchair.
I feel more for those who lived in the areas other than New Orleans
which were wiped out.
Why?
Common sense tells you not to live in hurricane alley below sea level.
Stunt

 No didn't say anything about the government.

 Mark
.








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.

Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

[Ol' Man River]

Yes Lana, a lot of us here have made a huge mistake and regretted it. We have all moved forward in our new lives realizing there is no going back. Hopefully we as a nation can rescue these poor people who decided to live under the ocean in hurricaine alley and provide them with a new life, maybe in north New Orleans. My last home was in freezing Michigan - I decided to move to Arizona - with nothing. My wife and I got jobs at the bottom and started a new life leaving our families behind. Sometimes we have to think of what's best for US and just go do it. I find it difficult to believe these poor people can't find a job doing something in this service orientedAmerican culture. They DO have to have a desire to be self supporting though - we'll see what their true values are. Any one of them could jump a Greyhound right now and for $50 get to any place in the USA to start
 over. Don't hold your breath. Dave



Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Folks have some empathy. 

From what I understand there are people there that could have left. This includes a criminal element to see how they could benefit.

However, the majority of people who did not leave were ill, elderly, disabled, the individuals caring for them and the poor. One of the dead sitting covered by a sheet outside the superdome was in a wheelchair. Poor means it was the end of the month and they had no money to get out of there. I’ve been that poor! If you haven’t you really don’t understand.

There were people who stayed because they didn’t think it would be that bad. They made a huge mistake. I’m sure they regret it. Haven’t you ever made a huge mistake and later regretted it. 

They all still need and deserve help. We help people in other countries in like situations. What’s wrong with helping fellow Americans?

Lana
Gabe’s momDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

RE: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

[Ol' Man River]

My wife and I started out in Arizona with nothing. She got a job because she had a skill. She had a skill because while in public school, she took it upon herself to get a job somewhere. She filed checks in the local bank. From there she developed other skills that were marketable. I did the same but my broken neck severely limited my options. The state sent me through college (as it did any needy public high school graduate resident ) so I did have a marketable skill. Neither of us sat home at age 11 and smoked, drank and fornicated with our 11 year old neghbors. Neither of us were taught that the proper way of life was to have as many kids as we could as fast as we could without a responsible fatherfigure so we could get as much government aid as we could. We both were taught to keep our legs crossed and make something of our lives. I do indeed feel bad that many !
 people
 lived under the sea and got destroyed by this storm. I do not believe that was their only choice in life and do not feel too bad that they are poor. I believe most poor people are poor because they choose to be poor. ( They choose [ are taught] NOT to get up off their asses and do something constructive with their lives. )The fact that they were under the see is truely unfortunate and their demise was mostly unforseen.(and should never be again.)That is not the case now and if they choose to return to their old homes - they are foolish. Saying they have nowhere else to go is equally foolish. They can start new anywhere as easily as under the sea, BUT they have to WANT to.


Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









I just heard on CNN that the FEMA disaster plan knew that 100,000 people were considered poor and very likely unable to leave the city if an emergency occurred. We know that the poor include people with disabilities and the elderly. These are the people who work for minimum wage if they can work. If you are poor and have a health problem you are very unlikely to move elsewhere. It takes a lot to move to another city. You sound like an exception.

Very importantly, it was their work and low wages that made New Orleans such a rich vacation city.

I pray for these folks and their animals and am making donations to Red Cross and the ASPCA. Ya, I’m an animal lover and will support those efforts too.

People can make many mistakes in life. We would have a better world if everyone could be more understanding.

Lana,
Gabe’s mom




From: Ol' Man River [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:13 PMTo: Lana Baugh; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina


Yes Lana, a lot of us here have made a huge mistake and regretted it. We have all moved forward in our new lives realizing there is no going back. Hopefully we as a nation can rescue these poor people who decided to live under the ocean in hurricaine alley and provide them with a new life, maybe in north New Orleans. My last home was in freezing Michigan - I decided to move to Arizona - with nothing. My wife and I got jobs at the bottom and started a new life leaving our families behind. Sometimes we have to think of what's best for US and just go do it. I find it difficult to believe these poor people can't find a job doing something in this service orientedAm!
 erican
 culture. They DO have to have a desire to be self supporting though - we'll see what their true values are. Any one of them could jump a Greyhound right now and for $50 get to any place in the USA to start over. Don't hold your breath. Dave







Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Folks have some empathy. 

From what I understand there are people there that could have left. This includes a criminal element to see how they could benefit.

However, the majority of people who did not leave were ill, elderly, disabled, the individuals caring for them and the poor. One of the dead sitting covered by a sheet outside the superdome was in a wheelchair. Poor means it was the end of the month and they had no money to get out of there. I’ve been that poor! If you haven’t you really don’t understand.

There were people who stayed because they didn’t think it would be that bad. They made a huge mistake. I’m sure they regret it. Haven’t you ever made a huge mistake and later regretted it. 

They all still need and deserve help. We help people in other countries in like situations. What’s wrong with helping fellow Americans?

Lana
Gabe’s mom


Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ



Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

[Ol' Man River]

ok, so withwhat part do you disagree?


Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:








Again ... I agree with you Dave. We left the freezing northeast leaving family behind too. It was a
job transfer for my husband (moving 3000 miles) only to getLAID OFF in just 8 months!

We learned to live quickly WITHOUT the 6 figure income wewere used to. No medical
insurance and so on.

Lives can be turned upside down overnight. Ours did but the last thing we did was to
think someone other than ourselves were going to help us get to where we wanted to
go in life and how we wanted to live via sacrifices and so on.

Lori Michaelson
C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post
Tucson, AZ


---Original Message---


From: Ol' Man River
Date: 09/02/05 14:14:50
To: Lana Baugh; quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

Yes Lana, a lot of us here have made a huge mistake and regretted it. We have all moved forward in our new lives realizing there is no going back. Hopefully we as a nation can rescue these poor people who decided to live under the ocean in hurricaine alley and provide them with a new life, maybe in north New Orleans. My last home was in freezing Michigan - I decided to move to Arizona - with nothing. My wife and I got jobs at the bottom and started a new life leaving our families behind. Sometimes we have to think of what's best for US and just go do it. I find it difficult to believe these poor people can't find a job doing something in this service orientedAmerican culture. They DO have to have a desire to be self supporting though - we'll see what their true values are. Any one of them could jump a Greyhound right now and for $50 get to any place in the USA to start
 over. Don't hold your breath. Dave



Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Folks have some empathy. 

From what I understand there are people there that could have left. This includes a criminal element to see how they could benefit.

However, the majority of people who did not leave were ill, elderly, disabled, the individuals caring for them and the poor. One of the dead sitting covered by a sheet outside the superdome was in a wheelchair. Poor means it was the end of the month and they had no money to get out of there. I’ve been that poor! If you haven’t you really don’t understand.

There were people who stayed because they didn’t think it would be that bad. They made a huge mistake. I’m sure they regret it. Haven’t you ever made a huge mistake and later regretted it. 

They all still need and deserve help. We help people in other countries in like situations. What’s wrong with helping fellow Americans?

Lana
Gabe’s mom
Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

[Ol' Man River]

amen to my quad brethren who refuse to sit on their asses and cry 'why me?', but instead rise to the challenge before them.


Silas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Good sermon! 

- Original Message - 
From: Ol' Man River 
To: Lana Baugh ; quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 4:28 PM
Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina

My wife and I started out in Arizona with nothing. She got a job because she had a skill. She had a skill because while in public school, she took it upon herself to get a job somewhere. She filed checks in the local bank. From there she developed other skills that were marketable. I did the same but my broken neck severely limited my options. The state sent me through college (as it did any needy public high school graduate resident ) so I did have a marketable skill. Neither of us sat home at age 11 and smoked, drank and fornicated with our 11 year old neghbors. Neither of us were taught that the proper way of life was to have as many kids as we could as fast as we could without a responsible fatherfigure so we could get as much government aid as we could. We both were taught to keep our legs crossed and make something of our lives. I do indeed feel bad that many !
 people
 lived under the sea and got destroyed by this storm. I do not believe that was their only choice in life and do not feel too bad that they are poor. I believe most poor people are poor because they choose to be poor. ( They choose [ are taught] NOT to get up off their asses and do something constructive with their lives. )The fact that they were under the see is truely unfortunate and their demise was mostly unforseen.(and should never be again.)That is not the case now and if they choose to return to their old homes - they are foolish. Saying they have nowhere else to go is equally foolish. They can start new anywhere as easily as under the sea, BUT they have to WANT to.


Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









I just heard on CNN that the FEMA disaster plan knew that 100,000 people were considered poor and very likely unable to leave the city if an emergency occurred. We know that the poor include people with disabilities and the elderly. These are the people who work for minimum wage if they can work. If you are poor and have a health problem you are very unlikely to move elsewhere. It takes a lot to move to another city. You sound like an exception.

Very importantly, it was their work and low wages that made New Orleans such a rich vacation city.

I pray for these folks and their animals and am making donations to Red Cross and the ASPCA. Ya, I’m an animal lover and will support those efforts too.

People can make many mistakes in life. We would have a better world if everyone could be more understanding.

Lana,
Gabe’s mom




From: Ol' Man River [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 3:13 PMTo: Lana Baugh; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] Suffering from Katrina


Yes Lana, a lot of us here have made a huge mistake and regretted it. We have all moved forward in our new lives realizing there is no going back. Hopefully we as a nation can rescue these poor people who decided to live under the ocean in hurricaine alley and provide them with a new life, maybe in north New Orleans. My last home was in freezing Michigan - I decided to move to Arizona - with nothing. My wife and I got jobs at the bottom and started a new life leaving our families behind. Sometimes we have to think of what's best for US and just go do it. I find it difficult to believe these poor people can't find a job doing something in this service orientedAm!
 erican
 culture. They DO have to have a desire to be self supporting though - we'll see what their true values are. Any one of them could jump a Greyhound right now and for $50 get to any place in the USA to start over. Don't hold your breath. Dave







Lana Baugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Folks have some empathy. 

From what I understand there are people there that could have left. This includes a criminal element to see how they could benefit.

However, the majority of people who did not leave were ill, elderly, disabled, the individuals caring for them and the poor. One of the dead sitting covered by a sheet outside the superdome was in a wheelchair. Poor means it was the end of the month and they had no money to get out of there. I’ve been that poor! If you haven’t you really don’t understand.

There were people who stayed because they didn’t think it would be that bad. They made a huge mistake. I’m sure they regret it. Haven’t you ever made a huge mistake and later regretted it. 

They all still need and deserve help. We help people in other countries in like situations. What’s wrong with helping fellow Americans?

Lana
Gabe’s mom


Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ



Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Dave - C3, 1967

Re: [QUAD-L] USA for ___

[Ol' Man River]

Many places in Africa need exactly what New Orleans needs, a U-HAUL. Guess what, that's not a good place to live. Either there's too much water or not enough, in either case, weather is tough to change. If you can't dig a well to get water or build a good dyke to keep it out - better off to move. Staying put and crying about the weather if futile. When shakey town gets shook and most of the town is destroyed and most of the population is killed then maybe it's time for them to make the same decision. If a few shakes here and there don't bother you that much then oh well. If you don't like seeing whole cities or countrys wiped out by mother nature, then it's time to wake up and move.


Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







I was just thinking about all the Hollywood Tycoons and artists who *have*
the clout to make a difference.

USA FOR AFRICA (1983ish) sold millions of copies to help a country that is no
better off today than they were from the monetary help back then.

I don't see a concert effort like USA for NEW ORLEANS coming together
anytime soon.

Ideally such nation-renowned events should take place before the
next natural disaster hits.

It's as if folks blindfold themselves into that ~it can't happen here~ mindset.

Wait till a tidal wave hits L.A.!!! And/or a quake in Calif is quite overdue...
especially along the fault line. The fault line (and it's previous destruction)
hasn't stopped folks from risky living.

Lori Michaelson
C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post
Tucson, AZ








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Hello???

[Ol' Man River]

to say nothing about the smarts of people who willingly live 6 feet below sea level in hurricaine alley. go ahead and tell me they had no choice. daveSilas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey River,Man im in total disbelief watching Cnn, I can't believe people would actually build a city 6' below sea level. Im so pissed off at Bush he depleted the funds so he could go fight a war he will never win. And he could do something about this gas bull shit, I wish he had to wade around in the nasty water of LA and sleep on the streets. Yeah I know its not his fault, but come on Mr President get your head out of Iracs ass and take care of our country. I really wish I could volunteer to help out, like you River I feel so helpless.Silas- Original Message - From: "River Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Quad-List post" Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:12 AMSubject: [QUAD-L] Hello??? Is anyone out there? Is everyone paralyzed by the tragedy in Miss, LA,  an!
 d Al? i
 can't believe this happened in the "richest" country in the  world. I can't believe the slow response to the death and destruction of  this disaster. I can't believe that police have been kept from rescue efforts in order  to contain "looters" carrying out diapers and food for their survival. Many things leave me in disbelief. I curse my damn disability which  leaves me feeling helpless. I can't believe the gas prices have gone up over $5 in Ga and elsewhere. peace and love, River 
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Disaster alert!

[Ol' Man River]

Galvaston was an island at that time - the city is now located on the mainland - they learned something about where not to live. Now it looks like time to bulldose all the land currently under water and vow not to build another city under the sea again. There is pleanty of land up river and expanding outward from the current area under water. Will we build another human trap and wait for mother nature to spring it again? We'll see. (I won't be moving there for sure.)
Dave
Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:







Dave writes...
to say nothing about the smarts of people who willingly live 6 feet below sea level in hurricaine alley. go ahead and tell me they had no choice. dave"

Precisely, Dave! They THEN act amazed that mother nature could do such a thing to THEM.

At least we have the media and meterology to warn us these days to be prepared to get out!

The 1900 hurricane that hit Galveston WAS a surprise. So I think the death toll RELATED
to (directly or INDIRECTLY) Katrina was like 5?


Galveston Hurricane of 1900--The deadliest natural disaster in United States History, this Category
Four Hurricane moved through Cuba into the Gulf of Mexico before slamming ashore in Galveston, Texas
on September 8, 1900 killing 6,000 people.


In a list of the most powerful hurricanes since 1900 ... Galveston is number 4 on
the list. It's been a tv documentary example many times.
They hardly knew what hit them since media and meterology was in its infancy
back then. 6000 people dead! We have seen little footage of Katrina since we don't like to watch the

media. While it certainly IS a devastating event (like all hurricanes) ... if people
choose to live where they do (in this case BELOW SEA LEVEL ... LOL) then
they must not ignore that mother nature raises her ugly head quite often
and the consequences they'll have to live with.

Dave lived practically right on top of the Gulf for ten yrs when he lived in Houston.
In that time, they had2 hurricanes ... not even close to Katrina but not
without power outages and much more!

BUT Galveston (his area) will never forget the MAJOR hurricane that wiped out 
everything there in 1900 and another in 1969. So that area is well overdue and Katrina
may be the latest despite hitting Louisianna (TX's next door state) instead. 

In a list of the most powerful hurricanes since 1900 ... Galveston is number 4 on
the list. It's been a tv documentary example many times.

Floridiansare aware of their choice of living ... right down to my sister in PA
living nearby a river now known to wreak havoc. In 1972 houses on her street
went down the river! 

Calif is way overdue for an earthquake of catastrophic proportion and those
people choose to live there despite the biggest fault line being a deterrent.

I DID catch 2 minutes of the media as I was switching stations to the music
channel when reading. It showed the pipeline going clear up to the northeast
from New Orleans. BUT said IT would be resolved in a matter of days. There
is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE to raise any prices on anything. Retailers do it
only because THEY CAN and no other reason!

Lori Michaelson
C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post
Tucson, AZ








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

[QUAD-L] locating lost ppl in n.o.

[Ol' Man River]

Here's an important site for anyone who is looking for word from loved ones, or trying to reach a lost peep.Ya, gotta remember most survivors have no access to phone's,let alone web. Most don't even have houses anymore.This is just an amazing site. http://www.hurricanekatrinasurvivors.com/main/Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

[QUAD-L] on the road again

[Ol' Man River]

after a year off...
http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/dv/
dave
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] on the road again

[Ol' Man River]

i leave it buckled so i don't have to fuss with it. just drive up under it.c5sci97 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does someone have to buckle the seatbelt after you get in, or can you get in  out totally independently?
On 8/31/05, Ol' Man River [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


after a year off...
http://www.users.qwest.net/~daveoc/dv/
dave

__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- Eric W Rudd[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] on the road again

[Ol' Man River]

yes it fits very well, the floor is lowered and my head misses the top by about 2 inches. i also fit under the steering wheel which i don't on a big ford 250 drop floor with raised top. that was the main selling point of the mini. dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Dave is that a power chair you are in to get into van ? I was wondering if power chairs can fit into the smaller non raised roof vans ? 
 Thanks, DanDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

[QUAD-L] Re: piercings

[Ol' Man River]

how about some temporary pain that goes away leaving no marks to get your adrenaline going? like maybe...
http://www.medicaltoys.com/lib-nipple-play.html

just an idea...
abc




OUCH!! That looks painful!! LOL I'm not into the whole below my chin piercings. So I have no idea what the cleavage thing is all about. This is the first I've heard of it. I have my eyebrow pierced. It wasn't a societal reject thing at all. After I got my first tattoo, I learned the pleasure of the adrenaline rush. So I got another tattoo... It's this rush that stems from the fear of pain and then the overcoming of the pain while you're going through it and all of your adrenaline is raging and you have this beautiful art work that's on your body forever that you just want to show off. For me it's like being on cloud 9 for a few days... because I love the whole experience. So for about 3 years I've wanted my eyebrow pierced. I hate needles (kind of ironic for someone who loves tattoos), but the thought of a thick needle piercing my flesh freaked me out. One night, I got all hyper on Starbucks (2 ex!
 tra shots
 in that Latte please), and up and decided to fuck the fear and get it done. To my disappointment, it didn't hurt at all.. It didn't swell, bruise, bleed.. nothing. So I think I'm over the piercing craze.. I'll stick to tattoos... which I am currently contemplating my 3rd. :o)Just my thoughts...Nicole 
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] filing papers

[Ol' Man River]

a hanging file cabinet is very handy for this. i have tried saving things to appropriate folders like electric, phone, insurance, car, home, investments i have now switched back to a single folder per year for everything. it makes taxes easier - also just one place to look for elusive info. i use a credit card for almost everything outside of direct payment, then just save store receipts long enough to verify against electronic bank records. i have found one mistake in thepast 3 years - a restaurant forgot to include my tip on the final transaction. using the card insures i have a recourse on a bad transaction. dave

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


how do you guys file your papers? every 2 or 3 days my desk is covered with papers, which i just keep putting to the side, neglecting to sort them.

luke
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Scanning

[Ol' Man River]

i have scanned in many documents and find the largest file is 250k saved in jpg format. i usually scan at 300 dpi and in b/w. color scanning is very expensive bytewise. a cd would hold 700,000/250 = almost 3000 such documents. dvd burners are now less that 100$ and a 4.7 gig single density dvd will hold ~7 CDs. please condider an external USB hard drive before burning CDs or DVDs. A 200gig external USB drive runs about $150 and is mush more dependable than CD or DVD. I have a lot of CD and DVDs that are unreadable. My externat USB is always readable. Look on eBay - they are the best way to go. P.S. leave them unplugged unless you are actively backing up or restoring. Run XCOPY /? in a DOS window to simplify backing up. I use the following to back up periodically:
:: this backs up d to the usb external drive:set budrive=h:\home:set logfile=z_usb_bu-2-H.log::echo \i386\ _nocopy.txtecho \$VAULT$.AVG\ _nocopy.txtecho \_Restore\ _nocopy.txtecho \Recycled\ _nocopy.txtecho \System Volume Information\ _nocopy.txtecho \RECYCLER\ _nocopy.txt:echo
 \ghost\ _nocopy.txt:echo --- start  %logfile%date /t  %logfile%time /t  %logfile%xcopy D:\*.* %budrive%\DBU\ /E /D /C /F /H /R /Y /EXCLUDE:_nocopy.txt date /t  %logfile%time /t  %logfile%echo --- done  %logfile%exit
if you need help, please ask.
Dave

"B. Kimberlin (Quadius)" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have read that several individuals scan in their documents in order to conserve space and allow for better retrieval. I have been wanting to do something similar. In fact, it is almost imperative that I get many documents stand in the event I have to evacuate due to a catastrophic weather occurrence. The problem I am having is that each document which I scan is extremely large and difficult to store. For instance, I scanned in a very simple contract (two pages) and it took up 2MB worth of space. My question is does anyone know how to scan in a document so that it does not take up an inordinate amount of space. The primary reason I am asking is because I like to keep these documents on CDs for easy transportation in case of a disaster. FYI, I have been using Adobe Acrobat to scan in documents. I appreciate any feedback.Billy
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Ma! il has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Transfers

[Ol' Man River]

i hear ya tom. i'm a c3 partial "super-quad" and i'd give my left nut to be able to crap like my wife. we all seem to want just that little more than we got - i guess all things are relative aren't they? on judgement day - this nightmare goes away and we will answer all questions based on our current abilities. hopefully we can all say, "i did the best with what i had." keep stroken' dude. grades are for effort not accomplishments. dave

tahouston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I know that when the doctors told me that I was C5-C6 complete, all I wanted to be was a sea C8 with enough dexterity to use my hands, you as a screwdriver or just write without an aide. At the rehab, everyone I conversed with wanted to be just one or two levels more than what they were.

Tom Houston

- Original Message - 
From: Stacy Harim 
To: Houston809 ; dave oconnell ; quadlist ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; David K. Kelmer 
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Transfers


Houston, 

I've had a taste ofboth levels. I was a quad when I got out of my coma. I just thought that I would love it if I could use my arms. I'm T 7/8 but my torso is so long that I am paralyzed rightbelow my chest. I think quads want to be paras and paras want to walk. AB's want a better life, etc.. It goes on and on. Everyone wants something better than what they have.

Stacy

- Original Message - 
From: David K. Kelmer 
To: Houston809 ; dave oconnell ; Stacy Harim ; quadlist ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Transfers


Hi Houston,

I agree with you about Dave. I think we all are super just by showing each other, and everyone else, that we're here and doing whatever we can to live a good life. Each day adds up, and as the years go by we learn a little more about ourselves. I hope yours is a lucky 7. :)

With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USA 
Houston809 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dave,You sound 2 be a super quad yourself. Keep pushing you and others truly inspire me. I’ve met a few quads that stand, I’ve only met 1 so far that actually walk I like some others pray for medical break throughs. I’d love 2 just have a little more return. I just want to be a low level Para.Houston On 8/23/05 4:25 PM, "Ol' Man River" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
when i was at Wayne state univ in 1970 we had a few walking quads - we called them super-quads. they walked with short arm braces - it was very laborious and not completely functional out in the real world but still, they were impressive. I'm a incomplete c3 from a trampoline and i used to stand to put my w/c into the back seat of my 2 door cars. my legs are now not trustworthy enough for such activity so i have switched to a power chair and a van with a ramp. i have lived alone before and still can but prefer to have an a/b around in case i fall. getting up is outside my abilities. i drag my butt in and out of bed and get some help from triggered leg spasms to get there. i use back and leg muscles to get onto the raised jon. i really would like to offer more help to you on the list but it's evident we don't have all that much in common. i d!
 o suffer
 from many of the ills and dep! ressions described on here and of course am just as helpless as any quad in many public situations. heavy doors, curbs, narrow jon stalls, high drinking fountains, all are just as unusable to me as they are you. i do however, frequently ask for and get cheerful help from anyone around women seem particularly drawn to my helpless situations. not my first idea for meeting chicks tho. the winning combo is - never give up - persistence wins in the end.DaveStacy Harim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Wow, that is impressive to transfer without a board. I'm paraplegic and cannot in anyway do that. I have to have my board and I'm paraplegic. My torso is way too long to get shoulder depression b/c I am way strong enough. My tone doesn't work with me like yours does with you as well. I'm not mad about it but I am very impressed by you.Stacy
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:24 AMSubject: [QUAD-L] TransfersIn a message dated 8/23/2005 10:12:33 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes:
hey paulcan you do a weight shift in your chair or turn yourself at night? if not that would be a good starting point. I'm c-5/6 incomplete, have very weak tricepts and have been transfering independently (without sliding board) for couple of years. i transfer to the shower chair, stander, and bed. i use the tone in my legs to help me move. when i start to lean forward my spasms automatically kick in to help me lean back. when you first start transfering you'll have a tendency to scoot, which if you're in manual chair it will slide away from you. i use my tone to give me a push to lift and move over. i have never ended up on the floor doing a transfer (KNOCK ON W

Re: [QUAD-L] PIE SYSTEM for Sale

[Ol' Man River]

that's about 43 bucks per use - every other day. tuff to afford my my budget for sure.QuadPirate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






Did myeyes deceive me or did that say a months supply of disposable bags was $650?
That Magic Bullet sounding much cheaper.


Mark

---Original Message---


From: Ol' Man River
Date: 08/24/05 15:11:39
To: Approval Department; quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] PIE SYSTEM for Sale

couldn't find it on ebay but here's the skinny on it.
http://www.safetyplus.net/homehealthprod1.html
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mrs Wessman still has the PIE system and many accessories available and readyto sell. It's not new, but hasn't been used since they received it. Her son decidedafter it was purchased that he didn't want it and now the family is stuck with it.Send her an email and make an offer on the system. For those who wish to know howit works, email her at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]This is truly the best system of its kind and deserves some attention. I have noidea what her asking price is, but I'm sure anyone can check E-Bay for like pricing.W
Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 








Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] super quads

[Ol' Man River]

Wow Penny, you said it all here.I too think everyone here on this list is a super quad. super quads are survivors, they are the ones who refuse to give up, they are the ones who can say, "is that all you got? my mother hits harder than that." Any human that gets crunched into this sub world type of existence and refuses to go down with the tide is definitely a super human as well as a super quad. the absolute accomplishments aren't the proper measurements so much as the relative accomplishments. We all have different limits and the more we bump up against them and refuse to settle for less, the more super we become. for some it's breathing for a while without help and for others its transferring without help. both are just as big a success in the grand scheme. its all a defiant cry of success and refusal to succumb to the inevitable. rocky balboa better look out - there a!
 re some
 real kings (and queens) of the walk here now. Dave

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Just had to throw my thoughts out here on this subject of "super quads." I have been reading the post and find it amazing that you all do not see yourselves as "super individuals," I certainly find you all that way. Whenever I start to slip into a "pity party" attitude I come online and always find a post that picks me up. I know that is not the intention of the poster because rarely are any posts directed to me, but just reading what most of you face and how you all deal with each issueencourages me. I think that each and every person on this list is incredible, and in my mind it proves the old saying "that which does not kill you only makes you stronger" Recently, here locally and in some surrounding towns they had an unsung hero's tribute, and I think I'd have to say that my hero's can be found on this list. You might be surprised at the impact you have on peoples lives that youtouch. What I find sad is that most of youare rarely told how
 important you are, so I did not want to miss out on the opportunity to let you know what my thoughts are.


PennyDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] PIE SYSTEM for Sale

[Ol' Man River]

couldn't find it on ebay but here's the skinny on it.
http://www.safetyplus.net/homehealthprod1.html
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mrs Wessman still has the PIE system and many accessories available and readyto sell. It's not new, but hasn't been used since they received it. Her son decidedafter it was purchased that he didn't want it and now the family is stuck with it.Send her an email and make an offer on the system. For those who wish to know howit works, email her at: [EMAIL PROTECTED]This is truly the best system of its kind and deserves some attention. I have noidea what her asking price is, but I'm sure anyone can check E-Bay for like pricing.WDave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Transfers

[Ol' Man River]

when i was at Wayne state univ in 1970 we had a few walking quads - we called them super-quads. they walked with short arm braces - it was very laborious and not completely functional out in the real world but still, they were impressive. I'm aincomplete c3 from a trampoline and i used to stand to put my w/c into the back seat of my 2 door cars. my legs are now not trustworthy enough for such activity so i have switched to a power chair and a van with a ramp. i have lived alone before and still can but prefer to have an a/b around in case i fall. getting up is outside my abilities. i drag my butt in and out of bed and get some help from triggered leg spasms to get there. i use back and leg muscles to get onto the raised jon. i really would like to offer more help to you on the list but it's evident we don't have all that much in common. i do suffer from many of the ills and dep!
 ressions
 described on here and of course am just as helpless as any quad in many public situations. heavy doors, curbs, narrow jon stalls, high drinking fountains, all are just as unusable to me as they are you. i do however, frequently ask for and get cheerful help from anyone around women seem particularly drawn to my helpless situations. not my first idea for meeting chicks tho. the winning combo is - never give up - persistence wins in the end.
DaveStacy Harim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Wow, that is impressive to transfer without a board. I'm paraplegic and cannot in anyway do that. I have to have my board and I'm paraplegic. My torso is way too long to get shoulder depression b/c I am way strong enough. My tone doesn't work with me like yours does with you as well. I'm not mad about it but I am very impressed by you.

Stacy

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: quad-list@eskimo.com 
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 11:24 AM
Subject: [QUAD-L] Transfers


In a message dated 8/23/2005 10:12:33 AM Central Standard Time, TheOmen723 writes:

hey paul

can you do a weight shift in your chair or turn yourself at night? if not that would be a good starting point.I'm c-5/6 incomplete, have veryweak tricepts and have been transfering independently (without sliding board) for couple of years. i transfer to the shower chair,stander, and bed. i use the tone in my legs to help me move. when i start to lean forward myspasms automatically kick in to help me lean back.when you first start transfering you'll have atendency to scoot, which if you're in manual chairit willslide away from you. i use my tone to give me a push to lift and move over. i have never ended up on the floor doing a transfer (KNOCK ON WOOD). when my tone is real bad and i don't feel safe doing it i ask for help, though. 

i'd rather ask for help getting in bed than getting off the floor


Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Am I the only eBay shopper here?

[Ol' Man River]

I got my eBay Jazzy 1100 for 350 + 77 shipping and it's a real beater. It runs and all but the arm rests are drooping and it clicks as it rolls. It is a tank next to my Pride Jets at 2 inches taller. 2 inches wider, and 3 inches longer. I'll be using it to get my van on the street and that's about it. Glad to be back.
Dave



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


In a message dated 8/15/2005 10:04:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As a matter of fact yes I can. My manual chair is 16 wide. 
well then, thare ya go, you'll be rollin soon. your doingbetter than me. i'm getting that mid-age female hip spread. i don't sit in my manual much but when i do, those wheels are closing in on me! it's the same chair they sent me home with 15 yrs ago. a nice slim 117 then but nowNOT TELLING:-)
dd

Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] IBot

[Ol' Man River]

http://www.independencenow.com/index.html
( they are about 25k )
dave
Paul Jacobson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









Does anyone have any info on the IBot wheelchair?

Paul
c5/6 11/03
San Diego, CADave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

[QUAD-L] Fwd: Dear Dave, Your Co-operation Needed Please.

[Ol' Man River]

wow Nigeria - the world capitol of "crooksville."
I think next he wans my bank account # and then $100 for processing fees or something. Their government doesn't even care that so many Nigerians are scammers. I get an unsolicited Yahoo IM every week from some 22 year old female wanting to send me a money order to cash for her. 
Sounds too good to be true.
DaveBarrister Robert Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 02:37:38 -0700 (PDT)From: Barrister Robert Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Dear Dave, Your Co-operation Needed Please. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FROM BARRISTER ROBERT PETER ROBERT CHAMBERS  SOLICITORS34/38 TINUBU SQUAREIKOYI ,LAGOS NIGERIA.Email Address. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Dear Dave, 
This mail may be a surprise to you because you did not give me the permission to do so and neither do you know me but before I tell you about myself I want you to plesae forgive me for sending the mail without your permission. 
I am Barrister Robert Peter,a solicitor at law.I am the personal attorney to late Mr.Patrick Ferguson who was a contractor with European Development company.Herein after shall be referred to my client.
On the 2nd of january 2000 my client,his wife and their three children were involved in an automobile accident.All the occupants of the vehicle unfortunately lost their lives, since then I have made several inquiries to your embassy to locate any of my clientsextended relatives but this has proved unsuccessful.But before he died he had $7.5 million in bearer bonds in a bank. 
After these several unsuccessful attempts to locate any member of his family,to claim this money as his next of kin was not successful.
I have contacted youto assist in repatriating the money and propert left behind by my client in the bank where this money is lodged by acting as his next of kin so that the money will be paid into your account.
I have A Power of authority to carry out all obligations on his behaif and will use my powers as the attorney to the deceased in provide you with all legitimate documents that you will use to authenticate your claim with the bank and this aslo cover you from the law I know that you might be wonder why I have decided to trust you to get this money out and considering the fact that make it a lot easier and straight forward .
The money will be share in the following proporation ii.50%for me, 40%for you and 10% will be put aside for expenses that might occur in the course of this transaction .
As I said earlier I will provide you with all legal documents that can be used to backup any claim we may make .All I require is your honest co-operation to enable us see this deal through.
I guarantee that this will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law .
Please get in with me, with your personal telephone number or fax number to enable us discuss further.For the urgency this requires, please get to me via my private email address [EMAIL PROTECTED]. 
I look forward to your urgent response. 
Best regards, 
Barr.Robert Peter


Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more.Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

[QUAD-L] Am I the only eBay shopper here?

[Ol' Man River]

Invacare Ranger II Front-Wheel Drive Power Wheelchair
Item number: 6200238188

Do any of you guys buy power chairs from eBay? The price certainly is right. I have bought 3 for under 700$ each. They work fine. I'm looking at one now that is EZLOCK certified so I can drive with it. My Pride Jets are not certified. DHL will ship it driveway to driveway for 85$. Pretty good deal I think. Dave
Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

[QUAD-L] Sleeping Giants

[Ol' Man River]

These are NOT to be taken lightly. The sleeping giant here in Phoenix is normally dry 365 days a year. When it roars (from roughly 3 to 4 inches in the water shed) it flows at 350,000 cubic feet per second. That's like thhe Mississippi river at it's lowest where usually there is nothing. EVERYTHING in it's way (that has often been built near the riverbed in the past 40 years) gets washed away like so many ping pong balls. The smaller washes are equally violent in a smaller way. They however have undermined interstate bridges and collapsed the freeways right into the surging water. Nothing to mess with. We lose a few idiots each year who drive around baracades to cross washes - forgetting that the wash is now 3 feet deeper than normal. Cars just don't work well in 4 or 5 feet of rushing water. Dave[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




In a message dated 8/15/2005 3:25:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
the County is under a 'Flash Flood Watch' until 6:30 P.M. We have had over 4" of rain in the last 48 hours.

Sounds like all those dry "river beds" are about to become very wet. Stay safe, Dave and you other Texicans. 

BillLeesburg, FLC-6 Incomplete since 7/20/68AOL/AIM  Yahoo ID: MikeyBird3Stupidity is NOT a handicap! Park elsewhere!Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

[QUAD-L] Re: Am I the only eBay shopper here?

[Ol' Man River]

They are usually spelled out the an appropriate section on the eBay page. No one wants bad feedback on their record so all bend over backwards to please you. You ARE ultimately at the mercy of the seller so read carefully before you bid. I've returned about 4 things - no problems.
The current power chair says "NO RETURNS.ITEM SOLD AS IS." so I know it's mine. If I don't like it, I can always re-sell it. Dave
~LittleQuad~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I'm a shopper too but nothing that big.what's the return option?Ol' Man River [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 






Invacare Ranger II Front-Wheel Drive Power Wheelchair
Item number: 6200238188

Do any of you guys buy power chairs from eBay? The price certainly is right. I have bought 3 for under 700$ each. They work fine. I'm looking at one now that is EZLOCK certified so I can drive with it. My Pride Jets are not certified. DHL will ship it driveway to driveway for 85$. Pretty good deal I think. Dave
Dave(what's a quad?) 


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Re: Am I the only eBay shopper here?

[Ol' Man River]

As a matter of fact yes I can. My manual chair is 16 wide. Allows me to get into more johns. 46 minutes and it's all mine..
About time to sell one of my others. Anyone interested in a jet 1 2 or 3? Dave.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


In a message dated 8/15/2005 9:12:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:






Invacare Ranger II Front-Wheel Drive Power Wheelchair
Item number: 6200238188

Do any of you guys buy power chairs from eBay? The price certainly is right. I have bought 3 for under 700$ each. They work fine. I'm looking at one now that is EZLOCK certified so I can drive with it. My Pride Jets are not certified. DHL will ship it driveway to driveway for 85$. Pretty good deal I think. Dave
seems like a good deal but i didn't see a year and daveit's 16 inches, can you get your butt in that?
dd

Dave - C3, 1967, Phoenix AZ__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Those that have Dogs.

[Ol' Man River]

My Irish Setter is a pretty squirly breed, and I'm not really into training his idiot brain. We can't leave the room if bread is sitting out. He's out the doggie door with it in 10 seconds if we do. He loves going for walks but because I just let him run full out while tied to my scooter, no one else can walk him. Good thing no one else wants to. He's very good with strangers and if the situation is relativelt calm, he's cool with petting. As we filled his water bucket at the park one day, a little kid asked if he could pet him and i said, "sure". He jumped up and down flapping his arms and Rocky started barking. I said, "um, maybe better not." and left. I just never know with dogs an strangers and i would certainly error on the side of caution. Many other kids have petted him on my walks with no bad happenings - but they were calm about it. 

DaveLori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






Exactly Dana...

My dog is 81lbs but she can't pull my 350lb chair with my extra 145lbs!

My next door neighbor has a nice dog that the husband walks but he can barely handle her
when she's near another dog or person! This is uncool, dangerous and rude on the
owner's part.

My dog is a Golden Retriever with the breed's"natural" friendliness" and calm-ness. But she's
been trained with me and by me so she knows her "limits."

I am also in an EXTREMELY dog-friendly city sooo all children I come to pass
in my journeys alone with my dog ... the kids actually know the proper "ask" then "pet."
At the park, on my walks or in stores.

They all love/want to pet my lovely Golden - http://michaelsons.org/Brandys%20Page.htm-- pics of me  "Brandy"

People may have to start training in the house (say if they have manual chairs).

Like kids ... CONSISTENCY IS A MUST. Look also to see if you have any individuals or orgs in your area who train via
POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT ONLY. Better yet ... use clicker training (look it up). We have ooodles of individuals in Tucson
who train dogs by sessions or in-person.

Lori Michaelson
C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post
Tucson, AZ

---Original Message---


From: Dana Miller
Date: 08/13/05 16:44:34
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Those that have Dogs.

Actually its very easy.Make a stable hook or bolt to the arm of your
chair, find a lead that gives the dog enough length to stay away from your
wheels, but not so lonjg that they will stick their noses where it does not
belong!.They will teach themselves to stay away from the wheels.Teach
them not to pull by stopping everytime time they do pull and wait severasl
seconds.They will want to go, so should ran quickly that if they dom not
pull, they get to go.Be consistant!!Don't let a group of girls oggle
over him and he will like an climb and aact like a numbskull.First!The
girls must ask to pet him.Unfortunately a lot of people do not know or do
thatThe dog must sit, then one by one they can come up and pet the dog.
Then when he has met all of them, and he has kept his manners, then a
petting session can proceed.Let them ask why you are so stern--duh, the
dog is 'yours', not their play toy.They do not know the dog, the dog does
not know them.Plus its a good training exercise and the dog becomes a
well, mannered pet, not a raving maniac!

Dana and Rocco
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Aaron Mann" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:11 AM
Subject: RE: [QUAD-L] Those that have Dogs.


We have 9 dogs currently in our home (under our care).All of them know
how to walk with me (not pull me) in my chair.

Hard, no, just requires persistent consistency.

My wife trains service dogs and regular pet dogs. (She specializes in
pet dogs with aggressive behaviors)Feel free to call her for advice:
Cat @ 940.206.0016

_

From:  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:04 AM
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: [QUAD-L] Those that have Dogs.


Iwas wondering if it is hard to teach a dog to walk on a leash
with a wheelchair?..Have any of you got your dogs to learn this or
were they trained BEFORE you ever get them ?

Dan










Dave(what's a quad?)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] stem cells, ethics, and greed

[Ol' Man River]

crap - i should have bought some of this stock. look at the past 2 year history. 25 to 60 that's 240% - maybe it's not too late? dave
QuadPirate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






Hey you left out Halliburton who's doing some serious "War Profiteering"charging us $100 lb to wash the blood off our men in combat. Theyhave over charged thegovernment or the tax payer over a billion dollars in the first 2 years of war and the government or the Bush administration just forgave the billing error and instead they got a70 million dollar bonus for a job well done!
Can you imagine what the IRS would do to an average American if this happened? Do you think we'd get a freakin bonus.
Wake the hell up people and smell the Bush, he's right behind you with his hand on your wallet or in your purse.
read up.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=103654


Mark
---Original Message---


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 08/10/05 19:36:51
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] stem cells, ethics, and greed


The University of Wisconsin gets the money and sets the price on what are now contaminated ES cell lines. Limited funding? UW is building a huge facility for stem cell research. The facility far exceeds the so called funding. The limits are restricting the new ES cell lines means that even the labs not using federal money must use ES cell lines that are established. 
We will have to disagree on using embryos for research. If you prefer the hundreds of thousands of embryos be destroyed each year at fertility clinics, you should say it that way. Stem cell research holds the potential to change medicine. Diseases like diabetes, kidney failure, heart disease, cancer, traumatic central nervous system injuries become treatable. Stem cell research is the cutting edge of modern medicine. I have tried to understand the ethical dilemma that some people pop up with but I don't see stem cell research being anymore unethical than harvesting organs from the dying. We are simply harvesting cells from embryos that would otherwise be flushed down the drain.
The South Koreans are doing some remarkable things in creating stem cell lines from many different sources but if you saw the dog in the news you will quickly realize that many of the stem cells being studied are not even from human origin. This points out that America is quickly falling behind. After all, Washington doesn't care who researches it or what is done with it as long as the right people get the money. This is the only ethics that exists within the beltway. 
If there was a moral high ground, I think it was shoveled off so we could perform a regime change in Iraq. 
Look at the profits going to GWB's friends. 
We will build a new street for wal-marts corporate headquarters for 35 million. There is a famine breaking out in Niger. We will build a 250 million dollar bridge to an island where fewer than 50 people live, and lets not forget 14 billion for oil companies. Yet it is necessary to cut back medicaid by an equal amount. 
I will do my best at this point not to argue over my opinion. Everyone on here can see the information on stem cell research and draw your own conclusions. You certainly don't have to agree with me. 

In a message dated 8/10/2005 6:08:45 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
IF the president's policy, as YOU conclude, has nothing to do with anyone's beliefs but just greed to require other labs to use stem cell lines patented by UW then why limit federal funding? How does that put money into the pockets of friends of GWB? If the policy limited the use to those lines and increased federal funding to use those ES lines then your greed argument would make sense to me. But by limiting federal funding, as you pointed out, who is benefiting money wise? The president's policy only put restrictions on those receiving federal funding. Researchers receiving state or private funding are free to use stem cell lines from any source their funding source allows. While I personally don't think research should be done on embryos created from a human egg and sperm, I have !
 decided I
 personally don't have a moral or ethical problem with stem cells derived using freshly harvested eggs and nuclear transfer technology. I don't consider that a human life. I find it interesting that the South Korean scientist Hwang's research was funded with less than $200,000 a year. The cost was equivalent to about one hundredth of the funds that scientists in the United States work with on similar projects. So who is profiting from all the money being spent? At 06:28 PM 8/9/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been reading a lot about the stem cell arguments. I have tried to stay open minded and not jump to conclusions. I was checking up some back grounds on positions regarding Embryonic Stem Cell research and ran into some interesting facts. Tommy Thompson helped to design the presidents policy on ES cells. He is a former governor of Wisconsin. 

RE: [QUAD-L] Choosing a van ... Full or Mini

[Ol' Man River]

Here's my new baby. http://www.handicapvehicle.com/1997DG400827.html 
It's like new. now to get a power chair that's 'certfied' by EZLock. My Pride Jet isn't. If it ain't one thing, it's another. DaveLester Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:









The price are very similar in my experience. Around 45,000 to 50,000.

Lester-Denver
C4-c5 quad 17 post





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:09 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] Choosing a van ... Full or Mini



Lori or anyone,

What is the difference in price? Do you always buying new vans?Dana (C 4-5, 31 years post, 51, KC)In a message dated 8/10/2005 4:01:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Error! Cannot read or display file.Error! Cannot read or display file.





Thing is ... the pros  cons DO make it difficult to decide.



Common sense here but I've had 3 full-sized vans with 3 different lifts. With the full I liked the indoor maneuvering space and easierto travel with that space. I DON'T miss the bulk of it, the gas hogs they are or the longer wait on the lift unfolding, loading, refolding ESPECIALLY in freezing weather.



I now have a Braun Entervan (minivan) and love to just zoom up the ramp ... little wait. Better gas mileage. And not so bulky to drive around in. The lowered floors make a bumpier ride (bothers my back) but if it's not lowered I can't see out.



So I have no idea which choice to make next. I WANT to put a ball on the back to pull a smallU-haul and I'd like the bigger indoor space but, then againI love the mini-van ramps. *sigh* Choices, decisions, ugh!



Lori Michaelson

C4/5 complete quad, 25 years post

Tucson, AZ



---Original Message---




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: 08/10/05 13:37:12

To: quad-list@eskimo.com

Subject: [QUAD-L] Mini ramp van



Minis are nice, but only if they are right for you.If you are living in a

big city with limited parking, the minis are nice.If you are employed or

upwardly mobile, the minis are very nice.

If you tow a housetrailer, . no the minis are not for you.

If you have 8 people in your household,. no the minis are not for you.



Know your needs.

W



In a message dated 8/10/05 2:26:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:



 Have any of you tried one of these?



http://www.handicapvehicle.com/



any plusses or negs I should know about?



Dave 

















Dave(what's a quad?)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: FW: Re: [QUAD-L] Anniversary....

[Ol' Man River]

Go through it again - now there's a curious thought. Yes I would IF I could know all then that I know now. I'd make a few changes and enjoy the plusses a little more and avoid the lows. Sure there was some crappy times but what might have been the alternative(s)? Has anyone seen "The Butterfly Effect"? That's a VERY thought provoking movie about what might have been and the consequences of changing the past. Highly recommended for those who wish their lives were different. Dave
t crook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hey William, I wouldn't want to go through this again either. Good luck hangin' tough!
Tim
www.geocitites.com/onemofortom
William Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My anniversary was yesterday. Twas Saturday, about 1:30 in the afternoon. 34 years ago. Diving. I was 19. I would rather die than go thru it again. C5 and sick of it. God's got some splain' to do.From: "QuadPirate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: "QuadPirate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: , "t crook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] AnniversaryDate: Mon, 8 Aug 2005 14:30:34 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)I'm glad you had a great anniversary Tim!We've all come a long ways so no since in stopping now, I'm Rollin On andenjoying the ride.Mark---Original Message---From: t crookDate: 08/07/05 20:25:13To: quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: [QUAD-L] AnniversaryToday was!
 ! a bit
 like it was 17 yrs. ago today, a very hot early August day.However, today wasn't spent by my family and I wondering if I would live ordie. I spent the day embracing life along with all the hurdles andaccomplishments I have endured.Look around, thing's can always be worse.Today I feel strong.Tim c5-c-6 incomplete17 yrs. postwww.geocities.com/onemofortomStart your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Dave(what's a quad?)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

RE: [QUAD-L] mini ramp van

[Ol' Man River]

cool, this will be my get me to my job and the bar buggy. no riders, no hauling, no pulling. my big 250 ford is a pretty rough ride. and the 12mpg really sux at 2.50/gal. (heading for 3 - i should buy some oil options)
Thx Aron
Dave

Aaron Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Pros
Appearance
Gas Mileage
Parking Garages
Smoother Ride

Cons
LowClearance
Not as much room as a full size
Trailers will bog you down big time



From: Ol' Man River [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:25 PMTo: Approval Department; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: [QUAD-L] mini ramp van

Have any of you tried one of these?
http://www.handicapvehicle.com/
any plusses or negs I should know about?
DaveDave(what's a quad?) 
__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

RE: [QUAD-L] Controlling other computers

[Ol' Man River]

I think while the WELCOME screen is up, the OS is loading itself and all your preferences from disk. Check the disk activity light. If it's blinking or on solid, you are waiting for everything to get into memory and setup for your use. Shutting down takes too long for my liking. Haw many files can be open and need such lengthy cache dumping and closing? (I just edit the c:\boot.ini file to chg the other wait for OS choice to load. Never knew ther was an option somewhere.)
Dave

Aaron Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


O, heh, the Welcome screen image can be changed, but that is when your OS is pulling all the necessary components into memory to run. Only increased CPU speed or more memory will speed that up.


From: David K. Kelmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:32 PMTo: Aaron Mann; David Baker; Eric Olson; quadSubject: RE: [QUAD-L] Controlling other computers


Hi Aaron,

I thought that was where I saw it but there is a box for "Time to display list of operating systems:" I don't have that box checked somy default OS should start run at start up. I thought I had seen about the same-thing for the 'Welcome' screen but it may have been this.Thanks.

With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USAAaron Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


R-Click My Computer  Properties  Advanced Tab  Startup and RecoverySettings


From: David K. Kelmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:38 PMTo: David Baker; Eric Olson; quadSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] Controlling other computers


Hi David,

BTW: Do you know where to set the amount oftime the 'Welcome' screen is displayed at log-on? I know where to switch it on off (i.e. User Accounts,)but I remember seeingaplace toset the 'Welcome' screen once, but can't find it now. Thanks..
With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USA 
David Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




FOR ANY ONE INTERESTED WINDOWS XP HAS A FILE SHARE CAPABILITY BUILT IN IT ALL PC MUST HAVE THE XP TO COMMUNICATE

- Original Message - 
From: David K. Kelmer 
To: Eric Olson ; quad 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Controlling other computers


Hi Eric,

MS XP has a 'File Sharing Program' that lets you connect two computers and work the remote one from your computer. I don't know how or if it would work on a network, but you might try it out.

With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 ComplEric Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Gang O' Gimps,I finally have my my own little network at home. My desktop upstairs, my mother's desktop downstairs, and my mother's laptop. Anyway, mother isn't the most computer literate person in the world so it would be much easier for me to be able to control her computer than to try to explain to her what she needs to do. Anyone know a good program for doing that? ThanksEricDave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] wheelchair drop out

[Ol' Man River]

Every one of my dogs has been squirly on a leash when I took them outside. I tried hanging on only once - then I got a Cycle Chair - 20 inch electric bicycle trike - and tied them to that. Now we streak a mile to the park and back, I get out and they get worn out - a win-win situation.
Dave

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


hello everyone

i was just sitting outside looking at the ducksby the lake in our backyard with my dog, Daisy. doesn't her name just sound so sweet. well that sweet dog just pulled me out of my chair trying too get the ducks. i caught myself at first but i had the leashwrapped around my hand and she finished the job she started. to make things worst it started to rain. luckily there was a man across the lake that helped me back in my chair. this is the second time she's done it and i guess ididn't learn my lesson the first time.icouldn't punish her because by the time i was back where i could, she had already forgotten what she did. now she'slaying insideby my chair because she's scared of thunder. poor baby.

lukeDave(what's a quad?)
		Yahoo! Mail 
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour

Re: [QUAD-L] Banking

[Ol' Man River]

I had only one real problem... I overpaid my VISA bill once - decimal in wrong place. DUH. Called and got it fixed in 10 minutes. Any transaction can be un-done. All you need is a reasonable explanation. They really do want your business. On line banking, free bill paying auto or manual, download data to local PC very geekoid - just like this list likes.
Dave


"David K. Kelmer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Bill,

I agree with you about on-line banking being safe. It's not only safe, but convenient, too.

With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



In a message dated 8/6/2005 8:55:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I'm thinking about going to a debit card and computer banking. Does anyone do that and how safe do you think it is?

That is all I use. I'm confident in my firewall and AV systems. Bank has good security online. 

BillLeesburg, FLC-6 Incomplete since 7/20/68AOL/AIM  Yahoo ID: MikeyBird3Stupidity is NOT a handicap! Park elsewhere!Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] stem cells, ethics, and greed

[Ol' Man River]

pretty sad commentary on our ADVANCED civilization.
one can only hope there is justice - later.
if not, then what?
Dave
kaye allard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
I have to agree with your points and thank you for shedding light on the stem cell stuff. I, too am sad.
On 8/9/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I have been reading a lot about the stem cell arguments. I have tried to stay open minded and not jump to conclusions. 
I was checking up some back grounds on positions regarding Embryonic Stem Cell research and ran into some interesting facts. Tommy Thompson helped to design the presidents policy on ES cells. He is a former governor of Wisconsin. University of Wisconson was the place where ES cell lines were first established in 1998. They were the first to patent the lines and processes to establish those lines. Tommy Thompson is a little more than an alumni of UW. 
The way the presidents policy works is by requiring other labs to use existing stem cell lines which the University of Wisconsin has a near monopoly on. 
The ethical argument against ES cell research has nothing to do with anyone's beliefs. It is just greed. The government is using the religious right like a cheap hand puppet. This is about protecting UW 's patent. 
The ethical question that the country is faced with is how do we get rid of such immoral and unethical people as this administration. 
We are being milked like some stupid cow. Our money is going into the pockets of every friend GWB has ever had. He is killing American soldiers. He has elderly people going to Canada to get affordable meds. We are sending money overseas for oil faster than we can earn it.
I AM SAD!

By the way, there are no uncontaminated ES cell lines. Total federal spending on ES cell research to date, just under 10 million dollars. 
The energy bill passed by congress has a provision to build a 250 million dollar bridge to an island where fewer than 50 people live. 
The words "ethics, morality, and Washington DC" should never occur in the same sentence.

john-- Life is 440 horsepower in a 2-cylinder engine. -Henry Miller 
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Million Dollar Boobies Movie

[Ol' Man River]

I never thought of the porn version. Boinking until you're a complete quad? Billion Boinker Baby? Heck, I should start getting better if that process is reversable when you quit.
Great idea, W.
Dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Like television shows that last 19 minutes with commercials, movies have to end atsome time. The ending the directors chose could have been better, but because of time constraints, they ended it much too quickly.Can't wait until the porn industry comes out with their version of the movie as theyusually do after a winner/whiner is released, lol.WIn a message dated 8/8/05 10:40:11 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I didn't want to see this movie after I found out the ending because it seemed the easy and shitty way out. Then my sidekick told me I couldn't have an opinion on it until I watched itWell I was really right. I spent 2+ hours watching it last night. Yes she had an amazing career and fought her way up, but in the end she says she wants to fight her way out.. how is giving up and havi!
 ng
 someone kill you fighting your way out? I have been an complete quad with all the movement she had. I was active, sports, AND a 5 month old songreat life as wellI never once gave up! Nor would I! Needless to say I keep my initial opinion!!Okay, I'm off for a few hours haha...Amye Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Anniversary....

[Ol' Man River]

Congrats Tim. Keep clicking them off. We are as hardy as they come. I personally get no satisfaction playing a perfect hand, give me a challenge any day. You are doing very well.
Dave c3 - 38 clicks

 

Today was a bit like it was 17 yrs. ago today, avery hot early August day. However, today wasn't spent by my family and I wondering if I would live or die. I spentthe dayembracing life alongwith all the hurdles and accomplishments I have endured. 
Look around, thing's can always be worse. 
Today I feel strong.

Tim c5-c-6 incomplete 
17 yrs. post


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Re: [QUAD-L] bowel mgmt

[Ol' Man River]

Shahidul,
what's the exact name of this tea? i could use a miracle.
daveShahidul Alam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I use a miracle herbal tea with full satisfaction. Please read my experience here:

http://www.daruchinidip.com/sci/bowel.htm

Sorry, I had to post this page in my personal web site as scilist site not working today.

Please take care :-)

Shahidul

On 8/5/05, kemalzk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

c3 incomplete for 7 years.i take laxative(bisacodyl)orally and also a fleet enema in the morning every three days to have a bowel movement.and yet some times it does not work.
does anyone have something different to help me in bowel management?Dave(what's a quad?)
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Re: [QUAD-L] (no subject)

[Ol' Man River]

Bobby, I'm sure we all understand your frustration here. I find a major diversion helps me in those low moments. Dinner out in a nice place, a movie, some booze or weed to dull the senses. I like touching the opposite sex in a semi-sexy - flirty - chummy nature helps too. A sports bar is a good place for that. The mental diversion is the main tool though. Whatever works for you should be exercised soon. Dwelling on the moment just doesn't release the feeling. Please know you have many friends here who deal with the same crap to some extent or another, and we're al here to help in these darker moments. DaveSilas Shelburne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





Hey Bobbie, 
Man you must have it bad, haveyou talked to a Dr. You really need some professional help, don't you have family that you cantalk too? Anymore when I start to get depressed I think what good is going to come out ov me being down, all it does is make me misserable. Try to stay busy, email friends read a good book (you can access the library on the computer) ride around and get some fresh air and different scenery. Chouse each morning to be misserable or be glad to be alive, take each difficulty as a learning experience. Hell fire their going to find a cure for this dam SCI. Get involved with a local church or a club like the ruitain, Bobbie there's still things you can do, im on the county Industrial Development Authority it keeps me involved with whats going on in the county. Buy you a scanner and listen to the cops and robbers, I have several pets that keep me intertained also. Hope Bobbie, hope is the main stay.!
 p; Hang
 in their! Silas 


 
Dave(what's a quad?)
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Re: [QUAD-L] Gut

[Ol' Man River]

my doc keeps thinking there's some exercises i can do to 'build up' strength or maybe work down my quad belly. maybe he's right...
dave c3 inc. 1967Greg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




I think quad-guts are mostly on C5's and higher. At least the C6's I know can push their own manual chairs and have more stomach muscles. As a C5 there are not many exercises I can do. Other than lift my arms high and swing them around. I've used weights, but 1 pound and I can't do it much. I try and twist my body as fast and much as I can, but in 15 seconds I'm out of breath and dizzy.
GregDave(what's a quad?)
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Re: [QUAD-L] How I got cheated on home business deal.

[Ol' Man River]

10-4 dude, although there's already a few other mistakes already in there i'll have to move to make room. ducolax just doesn't seem to help. dave"David K. Kelmer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Dan,

It sounds like you and Dave in Phoenix have less cash and a hard learned experience with stuffing envelopes. I'm sure you both can think of somewhere to stuff a few envelopes. :)

With Love,
CtrlAltDel aka DaveC4/5 Complete - 29 Years PostTexas, USA [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Hello all, A few years back vocational rehab of Missouri was trying to help me get a job working from home.So my worker found an ad that said make hundreds guaranteed each week stuffing envelopes, just send 40 dollars and begin working. I told her I did'nt trust sending money up front...but she was sure it was for real and the Company was not listed as bad with the B.B.B. Well I sent the $40 bucks and got a letter saying "Most Amazing Fast Working Diet Plan Ever!!! Then it said for me to advertise in newspaper saying= Just sent $2 dollars and self addressed envelope to my rented Post Office Box.When I start getting the $2 each envelope...I was to stuff each one with a ( Just Drink Water..Healthy Fast and Guaranteed To Work ) Needless To Say More( I GOT RIPPED OFF ) DanDave(what's a quad?)
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Re: [QUAD-L] Banking

[Ol' Man River]

pretty funny - my son uses my credit card all the time and signs his own name. the cashier just asked me when i pointed it out, "its a good card isn't it?" any check i send in the mail ican sign "micky mouse" banks don't check this very often. my sig is mostly a wiggly line - no one cares.  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
My wife does all the banking. When I'm out with somebody else besides my wife, I have whom ever signed my name and then initial it with their initials in front of the check out.



JimDave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] LOOKING FOR FEEDBACK...

[Ol' Man River]

my very best friend is a guy i met in 7th grade. he came to my rescue a year after my accident and has been nearby ever since. i love this guy and we have a friendship very few on this planet enjoy. no, we are not gay - we are just very close soul buddies. you never know who or where your anchor will be, just keep your eyes open. i truely believe that when one door closes, another opens. dave c3-1967.~LittleQuad~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

well start going out again...i did, go to malls, movies, sit at a restuarant..
ask an old friend out.u just never know!i've had cheaters...don't let them back in no matter how hard they beg or how much you miss them or intimacy.just not worth itwell unless you can separate sex from emotion... :)
we're here for ya when ya need a friend
amye = littlequad

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Quad-list,My life has been filled with its biggest challenges in the past year. August 2, 2004 I had a life-changing diving accident that left me paralyzed from my chest down. I'm considered a quadriplegic because I have a little inervasion in my triceps and wrist flexors and I don't have any independent movement of my fingers. I was a 31-year-old, married, father of two, a successful chef, and a modern man of the house. After my accident, it was unclear what I would be able to do. The doctors made no promises, but I was told that my injury is considered incomplete, which means there's a chance to regain at least some movement and sensation.I spent a total of 115 days away from home. Most of that time was spent in rehab learning how to do such simple things as feed myself, bathe myself, sit up, and how to use what movement I have to be as independent as I
 can.While I was away from home, the community rallied in support. There were several fundraisers, all aimed at renovating my house for me and my wheelchair. There were many volunteers, friends, family, and complete strangers that donated money, time, prayers, or just generous words of support.Every day I looked forward to coming home. I would speak with my wife every evening, and she would come to visit almost every weekend. Even though it was a little rocky, I always thought we would make it work. We'd been together for over 10 years, married for almost six. I always thought we were soul-mates and would grow old together. We are now facing separation. I guess no one knows what they would do if their spouse became permanently handicapped.How do you know if you're not in the situation?Lots of people have told me that life goes on, you can do anything you could before, just a little different. I heard many success stories of people who went on to have
 successful careers, marriages, and families after a spinal cord injury. I was especially very positive in the beginning, when I had the support of therapists and specialists. My positive attitude faded when I came home, I became very depressed. I stopped exercising except for physical therapy, and began self-medicating. I was very frustrated with the things I used to be able to do at home. There was a" friend" who had been staying at my house for several months who was helping my wife with many of the things I used to do around the house. I was only home for two weeks before they became intimate.The Monday after New Year's she told me she wanted to move out, a week later she told me what had happened and had been going on for a month. I thought I could share her. It was only a matter of months before I snapped. She has left me the house, and acquired an apartment down the street for her and the kids, so they can come and visit often. I don't know where I!
 ! would
 be if it wasn't for a couple of close friends who have moved into my house to help me.How do I move on? I believe I have a lot to offer, I used to think we would be together forever, now I'm craving companionship, intimacy, and someone to be close to. I am grateful for any advice and or feedback,Truly yours, Paralyzed and Confused in the Adirondacks JT... 32 YO... C6... ALMOST 1 YR POST


http://fly.to/littlequadYahoo ID - littlequad Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Movie: Million Dollar Baby

[Ol' Man River]

Honorable mention Dave at 38 yrs (1967)
I think Mr. Boyd is 1948 or something - 50 some years... i think
Dave[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Mr. Boyd could easily be the King and the winner of the "longest period contest."Man, I miss that guy.WIn a message dated 7/29/05 2:57:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 34 years as a Quad ? Wow, I wonder if that is the record in here for the longest period that any of us in here have been quads ? By the way how did you become paralyzed ??Thanks, Dan Dave(what's a quad?)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] Surgery

[Ol' Man River]

LUCKILY YOU DON'T NEED THAT WISDOM TOOTH ANYWAY.
DAVE[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi Folks,

Just wanted to keep you updated. Although I haven't been replying to many emails on the list, I have been reading them and storing the ones that I want to reply to at a later date. 

I don't know how much I'll be around to do that in the next few days as I've got to have a operation this Thursday (2 days time). Basically I had a bit of a accident and managed to damage a couple of my teeth. At the moment they are planning to remove one of my wisdom teeth which thankfully got most of the damage to it, mend the gum properly around it plus mend the tooth next to it. Finger's crossed it's going to be a day surgery thing, but it depends weather the specialist finds that he needs to do more work as when he made the decision to operate it was still all pretty swollen, so fingers crossed.

Anyway like I say I will be replying to your emails at some point in the near future!

Take care,

Love Smurf xxxDave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

RE: [QUAD-L] i'm so depressed i could throw up

[Ol' Man River]

Iguess my main objection to your philosophy isthat it sounds a lot like my dear departed father. I always viewed his "buck up" attitude towards me as hisdis-interest in sympathizing or understanding or comforting one in a tough time. Those types of responses take time to deal with and reason through, and after all, it was MY problem, not his. He just wasn't one to express any loving and caring emotions verbally. He never once said he loved me - even though I know for sure he did by his actions. People like that view compassion as a weakness and prefer not to deal with those emotions. People like that also miss a lot of real life. When we'd fall down, he'd say, "I don't feel anything, it didn't hurt ME." That wasnot a comforting thing to hear. His lack of interest in my problems was something I just didn't need in my life and I think (AND thought at the time), !
 saying
 nothing would have been more comforting than, "buck up." I don't like hearing "you will never walk again so buck up" because there are a lot of less abrasive ways to say it with the same meaning.
Dave
 Aaron Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


You guys really confuse me. I share what worked for me and I get all sorts of slack, but you give your opinions and thoughts and it's all OK. And, yes, I do deal with depression too. 

"the worst thing that somebody can say is to get over it and get on with your life" - This is what works for ME, that's what makes what I said MY opinion. I grew up under the "buck up" philosophy and live that way.

Back to the original poster: I do hope you take something from our input. If none of our methods or advice help, then please seek professional help.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:38 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; quad-list@eskimo.comSubject: Re: [QUAD-L] i'm so depressed i could throw up
 
I agree with you Dave, that was a very shallow response that Aaron did. It proves that he also has issues and might be suffering from some depression himself with an answer like that. When I joined this list approximately two years ago the people on here were caring and loving and wanting to help each other. Now, somebody posts something and a few people have to tear them apart like it was the worst thing that ever happened. The depression is nothing to play with and the worst thing that somebody can say is to get over it and get on with your life. Life is always not an easy when you are able-bodied and when you became a quadriplegic can depend on everybody else it's that much easier and there are times that I even feel depressed because of the lifestyle.

We live in the greatest nation in the world so why would anybody even compare us to a poor nation with quadriplegics with no wheelchairs or medication or anything like that. Why do we have to live like they do when we're giving billions of dollars for foreign aid and still cutting our aid here in United States for people like us that truly needed. There is not one person on this list that would not give anything to be able to walk again and if they are saying that they enjoyed this lifestyle they are either lying or have bigger issues than the most of us.

JimDave(what's a quad?)
		Do you Yahoo!? 
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.

Re: [QUAD-L] Sterile H2O to flush catheters

[Ol' Man River]

Buy it for 8$ a liter I guess.Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






Oh DEFINITELY... we "boil the water" to make it "sterile" ... yes! How else ya going to get it sterile?

Lori

---Original Message-------


From: Ol' Man River
Date: 07/18/05 13:42:55
To: Approval Department; quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] Sterile H2O to flush catheters

wow - boiled water won't do? that's insredible.
Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






Either normal saline (via my agency) or home-madesterile water with a water/vinegar ratio.

Lori

---Original Message---


From: Eric W Rudd
Date: 07/18/05 12:36:07
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: [QUAD-L] Sterile H2O to flush catheters

What does everybody else use? I flush mine w/ 30ml on M/W/F, more if cath looks cloudy.But, a 1000ml bottle of sterile water (sodium chloride 0.9%) @ $8.00+ is getting expensive.

Eric W Rudd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]









Dave(what's a quad?) 


Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 








Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] Sterile H2O to flush catheters

[Ol' Man River]

wow - boiled water won't do? that's insredible.
Lori Michaelson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:






Either normal saline (via my agency) or home-madesterile water with a water/vinegar ratio.

Lori

---Original Message---


From: Eric W Rudd
Date: 07/18/05 12:36:07
To: quad-list@eskimo.com
Subject: [QUAD-L] Sterile H2O to flush catheters

What does everybody else use? I flush mine w/ 30ml on M/W/F, more if cath looks cloudy.But, a 1000ml bottle of sterile water (sodium chloride 0.9%) @ $8.00+ is getting expensive.

Eric W Rudd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]









Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] i'm so depressed i could throw up

[Ol' Man River]

John, 
Iguess it was your phrase -I do not, however, look at it as anything more than an effect of depression. - thatI find unusual. That seems to simplify a pretty complex and final act of desparation into a simple effect.I guess we all see things differently.
Dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Dear Dave, 
I didn't mean to sound like I condoned suicide. I don't. I do not, however, look at it as anything more than an effect of depression. Most of us get through our depression and go on. Some of my friends didn't make it. I still love them. Some didn't make it through infections. I hate the loss. 

john

In a message dated 7/16/2005 10:06:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
excellent observation john. by taking your own life you are not saying that you don't matter anywhere near as loud as you are telling your loved ones that THEY don't matter. what a slap in their faces that must be. dave[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 



Good post! I think you stepped in a minefield because we each have experienced depression. We are all different in many ways, including how we deal with depression. I have known a lot of folks that couldn't deal and have chosen to end their problems. Trouble with that is they ended everything. I'm not afraid of dying. I don't give advice on suicide because I've only decided that I want to live today. Some days that decision gets clouded by depression. I hope you let these bad feelings go and stay with us. But, I will never lower my opinion of any one on this list because they succumbed to depression. I look at depression in the same way I view UTI's. They can be fatal andI sure hope there is a better life awaiting us all. 
If you do take that route please get your affairs in order and don't leave trivial notes blaming others. The world is aware of what you did and why you did it. If you mess up you will do time in a psych center and it won't be fun, so don't mix up a suicide attempt with a cry for help. Do not set up some elaborate event where some poor schmuck kills you accidentally. They don't deserve that on their conscience. 

john


Dave(what's a quad?)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 

Re: [QUAD-L] i'm so depressed i could throw up

[Ol' Man River]

why won't voc rehab send you to school?
dave
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 
i'm 22, 5 yrspost,live with my mom,out in the middle of nowhere (no neighbors). i rarely see my friends(they are all in college). broke up with my girlfriend of almost 4yrs about 2yrs ago. iam a virgin. i have pain, spasms, infections, facial numbness, no shock absorbers on my chair (w/ only a small area of cement, the rest is off-road bumps), severe to moderate osteoporosis,problems sleeping but when i do i wake upwith back braking spasms,people to call, school stuff. 

i call all of this stuff a challenge. if things get worse then i challenge myself to except it and move on.

luke

ps i'm not saying ihaven't beendepressed since i had my accident. i tried to kill myself when i first got home after my accident and my little brother was the one that stopped me.Dave(what's a quad?)
		 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

Re: [QUAD-L] 39 years and I've had a good life!

[Ol' Man River]

Amen GA, You are definately setting the bar for us. I like you find the busier I am, the less time I have to fret about how bad off I am. I am recently laid off so now I will be looking for things to fill my time. So far a city councilman has asked me to be on a planning committee for the handicapped, and my buddy needs an office manager. Who knows what's next? Keep going dude.
Dave -- c3 inc38 years post. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
July 10th was my 39th post SCI. Looking back in many ways my accident was a blessing, some ways a curse.Life is what you make it and I'm enjoying it! Three stepchildren, 8 grandchildren, volunteering with the local historical society, chair of the building committee at church, helpful in other organizations that help the disabled, get my name in the paper every few months because I am doing something crazy like a walkathon for wheelchairs to rise money for a church elevator or some unimportant thing like that.The next project is to get a monthly church service in our community for the disabled only. We are going to discriminate.Later dudes,Gotta roll.GADave(what's a quad?)__Do You
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