Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Joe Bernard]

I always assumed it was devised to make shifting faster, with less effort, in 
the peloton: Faster buys you milliseconds in the sprint, less effort saves your 
hands on stage races where you're doing crazy miles for a week or more. I'm not 
sure this translates to a need in recreational riding, but some folks are 
willing to pay for the benefits.  

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[RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[drew]

Well thanks. All the feedback seems like I should definitely go ahead and get 
them. Nobody seems unhappy. maybe I'll flip a coin as to the variation. 

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[RBW] Nitto R26 rack

[C Lin]

Any one know what is the max load rating? I can't find it on line

Thanks,

Carlos

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[John Stowe]

The only truly distinctive feature I can point to for electronic shifting is 
that you can put the buttons where you need them, and you can have more than 
one per derailleur. Not crucial for the riding most of us do, perhaps, but on a 
time trial bike the ability to shift either on the aero bars or on the outer 
bullhorns, while maintaining control of the bike, could conceivably make a 
difference in a race.

But for the rest of us? Shrug.

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[RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

To further confuse matters, the box that my TBs came in has no mention of  
Raceguard, Liteskin, or Snakeskin. Instead, it reads :

*Evolution Line*
The best possible.
Highest quality materials.
The latest technology

*Performance Line*
Excellent quality for intensive use.

*Active Line*
Reliable brand quality.


On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 2:17:31 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>
>
> This may help or it may confuse you more ...prolly a bit of both !  
> https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/all/definitions/Performance.html
>
>
> *RaceGuard®*
> This belt was developed specially with racing in mind. A synthesis of 
> special india rubber and several layers of nylon fabric offers very 
> effective protection against penetration punctures. There is only a minimal 
> increase in weight and rolling resistance of these tires.
>
>  
>>
>   *SnakeSkin:* A light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly 
> resistant to scrubbing.
>
> *   LiteSkin:* Skin Tires have light, thin sidewalls. Advantages: 
>> Weight saving and reduced rolling resistance.
>
>
>  
> It appears the raceguard version relies on a fabric belt with the 
> lightskin sidewalls for puncture resistance whereas the snakeskin is "A 
> light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly resistant to scrubbing" .  
> So that infers a completely different carcass .  
>
> So Drew I'd assume a snakeskin version would be a good choice for you. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The reason for devising it has little to do with practicality and much to 
do with the way our economy is set up, as well as the law of diminishing 
returns and a number of other interesting factors. When TSHTF, and your 
electronic shifting gizmo goes on the fritz, good luck finding someone who 
A. knows how to fix it, and B. can source parts. But at that point, 
e-shifts will likely not be one of your top 100 concerns, so don't fret!

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 7:33:40 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> No, the *question *was whether e shifting *reduced* mis-shifts, and 
> whether this *reduction* was the *reason* for devising it.
>
> I'm afraid Steve is right; you've not stated any good reason for electric 
> shifting except cosmetic, and in my book, that's a pretty modest reason for 
> an entirely new system.
>
> Now, I personally rather like the idea of getting rid of cams and cables 
> and pinch bolts and using servomechs to shift. After all, once you take the 
> indexing step, then the matter of skill is out the door, and you might as 
> well choose the simpler and more reliable system.
>
> But that's back to my question: is electric shifting more reliable and 
> more simple? Will the stuff last as long as STI?
>
> So, once again *(please read carefully!)*: What is, or what are, the 
> reasons for switching to batteries and servo motors?
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Brewster Fong  > wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>> Agree. But the concern was whether e-shifting leads to "mis-shifts."  In 
>> my group, I haven't notice it. 
>>
>>>
>>> Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. 
>>> There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I 
>>> know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap 
>>> loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing 
>>> about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a 
>>> track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In 
>>> contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many frames, especially 
>>> carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add 
>>> in a Garmin to track everything and being able to upload your latest time 
>>> and you're set! 
>>>
>>> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with 
>>> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring 
>>> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and 
>>> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t 
>>> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no 
>>> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is 
>>> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done 
>>> effortlessly!
>>>
>>>
>>> You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're 
>>> limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to 
>>> avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD 
>>> anywhere you like).  So that gives back something that was lost when they 
>>> went to STI.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, but you're limiting yourself to one system!  Yes, Shimano STI 
>> shifters are positional and have limited amount of trim. Sram double tap is 
>> positional too. They both also require specific shifters if you want to use 
>> a triple versus a double crank.  However, Campy ergo front shifting is a 
>> rachet and has multiple positions so you can shift either a triple of 
>> double. It's almost like friction shifting.
>>
>> The last is Sram etap. It is also positional as you have to shift both 
>> levers at once to go from big ring to small ring and visa versa.  But my 
>> buddy loves it and says he has never had a mis-shift.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No, 
>>> seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys - 
>>> Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my 
>>> group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. Simply 
>>> amazingGood Luck!
>>>
>>>
>>> Other than trimming the front derailleur, you haven't give a genuine 
>>> reason to do so.  The fact that it works isn't enough: cable shifting works 
>>> too, and costs thousands less without requiring charging a battery.
>>> Being "new" is insufficient; you really need to show "better."  And that 
>>> you haven't done.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not trying to show "better."  What I like about etap is the look. No 
>> derailleur cables!  Very clean look and once they have e-braking, no cables 
>> at all! ;)  If I had the money, this Mark DiNucci would be on my list 
>> (click the picture for the slideshow):
>>
>>
>> http://theradavist.com/2016/02/2016-nahbs-dinucci-classic-road-with-sram-red-etap/#1
>>
>> As for pricing, yes etap is pricey as the basic shifters, FD, RD and 
>> charger is 

[RBW] Re: F/S 62cm Proto- Hunqapillar/Bomba

[Kieran J]

OH DANGGG! If only ... :-)

KJ


On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 4:07:03 PM UTC-5, Kurt Manley wrote:
>
>
> 
> Up for sale is my awesome Riv ProtoVelo. This was a long bike 
> Hunqapillar-ish prototype. It has ProtoVelo decals but a Hunq headbadge. 
> Regardless of what you call it it's a rad on and off road bike with a limo 
> like ride. 
> I've used this bike for everything from grocery shopping to long off road 
> backcountry touring. It has always been awesome. Super stable, descends 
> like no other bike I've ridden. Load it up and hit the road or strip it 
> down and hit some singletrack. It will do it all. I have used and loved 
> this bike for many amazing rides and it has plenty of buseage to prove it. 
> Scratches, scrapes, and an unpainted fork (rattle can clear) highlight the 
> cosmetic issues but there are no dents at all, the bike rides like a dream, 
> perfectly straight, rides no handed perfect and is ready for your next 
> adventure. If you are looking for a cosmetically perfect bike this is not 
> it but if you want somethigng that sill looks great and gets compliments 
> everywhere you go and dont mind some scratches here you go.I listed this a 
> while back but had some second thoughts about selling at the time since I 
> love this bike but you know the drill, too many bikes, not enough 
> space..
>
> Fits pretty much exactly like a 62cm regular Hunq as far as stand over/tt 
> length/ect, the top tube slopes up a bit more but it still fits the same 
> just less spacers under the top nut. It's just way longer in the 
> chainstays. Definitely for a taller person, I'm just a hair shy of 6'5" and 
> the bike fits me incredibly well. The saddle height shown in the photos is 
> actually a bit higher than I run. 
>
> Build is Pretty standard Riv style but some highlights are
>
> Filet brazed Nitto bulmoose bars (discontinued)
> Brooks B17
> Velocity Hubs to Dyads
> Sugino Triple
> Awesome IRD/Silver friction shifters (I love these!)
> Avid SD& V brakes (these don't match the rest of the build that well but 
> they work amazingly! I would be happy to switch out for a set of cx70 
> cantis I have but you'd need to add you levers and cables.)
> MKS sneaker pedals
> Tires on the bike are pretty much done but I'll include some Big Bens with 
> lot's of life 
> Also will include a 40z Two Fish bottle cage
>
> $1450 plus professional packing and shipping.   
>
> I'm in Oakland, CA if you'd like to check it out
>
> Link to more photos
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0lo3ibv0lbjwxf8/AACvvaafFwjwXMiYF7TBoEQka?dl=0
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kurt
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tires for HHH tandem

[Daniel Jackson]

Compass SBH Standard casing going on ours. Talked to Paul today at Paul 
Component and decided to spec some Motolites over the Honjo H-80 fender. He was 
certain clearances would work well. 

Excited to put this all together in time for summer travels. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ron Mc]

What seems to make the most sense would be a dyno hub or dyno BB that keeps 
your battery charged.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 4:33:40 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> No, the *question *was whether e shifting *reduced* mis-shifts, and 
> whether this *reduction* was the *reason* for devising it.
>

As someone who doesn't own a bike with e-shifting, I can only say what I 
see, *NONE* of my friends with e-shifting have every had a "mis-shift," but 
that's a small sampling and anecdotal. Also, I don't think this was the 
reason it was devised. I think it was devised to make faster shifting. I 
mean, a computer is faster than manual in processing pretty much anything. 
So why wouldn't shifting be the same? Does it make that much of a 
difference if you're 1 second or less faster shifting? For the majority, I 
would say no. Still, for the pros it might make that difference and we all 
know how we MUST emulate what the pros are riding!

Patrick, if you really want to know more, why are you asking the ibob list 
where most people are probably still using friction shifters or at least 
that's the reputation?!  Why not read a few cycling review and then go test 
it yourself. I'm sure trhere's a Trek/Spec/C'dale has a shop near you?!  

Anyways, take a look at a few articles like this one:

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/six-reasons-electronic-groupsets-better-mechanical-224550

Hey even your buddies at retrogrouch addressed this issue:

http://bikeretrogrouch.blogspot.com/2016/05/electronic-vs-mechanical-shifting.html

So whether its cosmetic or actual interest in faster shifting, e-shifting 
is here to stay. The question is whether you are open enough to investigate 
it for yourself without being influence by others.

btw, I've tried it and like it. I don't have it, but can see myself getting 
it on a future bike. Why not? Cycling is suppose to be fun! Good Luck!



> I'm afraid Steve is right; you've not stated any good reason for electric 
> shifting except cosmetic, and in my book, that's a pretty modest reason for 
> an entirely new system.
>
> Now, I personally rather like the idea of getting rid of cams and cables 
> and pinch bolts and using servomechs to shift. After all, once you take the 
> indexing step, then the matter of skill is out the door, and you might as 
> well choose the simpler and more reliable system.
>
> But that's back to my question: is electric shifting more reliable and 
> more simple? Will the stuff last as long as STI?
>
> So, once again *(please read carefully!)*: What is, or what are, the 
> reasons for switching to batteries and servo motors?
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Brewster Fong  > wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>> Agree. But the concern was whether e-shifting leads to "mis-shifts."  In 
>> my group, I haven't notice it. 
>>
>>>
>>> Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. 
>>> There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I 
>>> know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap 
>>> loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing 
>>> about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a 
>>> track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In 
>>> contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many frames, especially 
>>> carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add 
>>> in a Garmin to track everything and being able to upload your latest time 
>>> and you're set! 
>>>
>>> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with 
>>> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring 
>>> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and 
>>> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t 
>>> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no 
>>> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is 
>>> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done 
>>> effortlessly!
>>>
>>>
>>> You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're 
>>> limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to 
>>> avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD 
>>> anywhere you like).  So that gives back something that was lost when they 
>>> went to STI.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, but you're limiting yourself to one system!  Yes, Shimano STI 
>> shifters are positional and have limited amount of trim. Sram double tap is 
>> positional too. They both also require specific shifters if you want to use 
>> a triple versus a double crank.  However, Campy ergo front shifting is a 
>> rachet and has multiple positions so you can shift either a triple of 
>> double. It's almost like friction shifting.
>>
>> The last is Sram etap. It is also positional as you have to shift both 
>> levers at once to go from big ring to small ring and visa versa.  But my 
>> buddy loves it and says he has 

[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[George Schick]

What happened to Kogswell, indeed!?  I recall surfing into there website a 
few years ago and it was defunct.  Not sure exactly when or why they pulled 
the plug, but it was a shame.

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:03:44 PM UTC-6, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> I remember when those came out. Wasn't there a kerfuffle over the name (or 
> proposed name)? What happened to Kogswell?
>
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:22:41 AM UTC-5, Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>> Saw an ebay listing for a 62cm Kogswell P and the ad copy stated it was 
>> an exact copy of the Rambouillet geometry. IIRC, the P was only made 
>> briefly, used lugs and HT tubes out of Taiwan.  Does anyone know if was in 
>> fact a close relative or truly an exact copy? 
>>
>> Hard to believe, but the Ram took a "nap" about 10 years ago now and 
>> still hasn't woken up :)  I saw an Orange 55 CM frame here on the list this 
>> week and ALMOST bought it. It is truly a big too big though, even if I 
>> built it as a 650B. I hope someone who will enjoy its ride gets it and 
>> builds it up. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ron Mc]

Brewster nailed it, Electronic shifting = N+1

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:00:10 PM UTC-6, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:49:03 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Continuing this aside: what exactly is the purpose of electric shifting? 
>> I assume there is some benefit to someone besides the seller, since someone 
>> or other has been trying to make it work since the mid or late '90s. Does 
>> it make mis-shifts, which I assume (right? wrong?) are more common with 
>> cables the smaller the gaps between cogs, less likely?
>>
>
> What's the purpose  of e-shifting?! Are you crazy?!  Of course, its to 
> sell more bikes!  Come on, get with it!
>
> But seriously, the latest e-shifting is fast and reliable. Unlike the old 
> Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. There's basically 
> tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I know have Shimano 
> ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap loves it too and in 
> fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing about etap is there's 
> no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a track bike with only 
> brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In contrast, Shimano di2 
> does require wires, but many frames, especially carbon ones, are being 
> designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add in a Garmin to track 
> everything and being able to upload your latest time and you're set! 
>
> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with 
> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring 
> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and 
> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t 
> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no 
> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is 
> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done 
> effortlessly!
>
> If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No, 
> seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys - 
> Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my 
> group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. Simply 
> amazingGood Luck! 
>
>  
>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: F/S 62cm Proto- Hunqapillar/Bomba

[Bin Chen]

Beautiful bike. Some tall man (or woman) is going to be very happy.

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 1:07:03 PM UTC-8, Kurt Manley wrote:
>
>
> 
> Up for sale is my awesome Riv ProtoVelo. This was a long bike 
> Hunqapillar-ish prototype. It has ProtoVelo decals but a Hunq headbadge. 
> Regardless of what you call it it's a rad on and off road bike with a limo 
> like ride. 
> I've used this bike for everything from grocery shopping to long off road 
> backcountry touring. It has always been awesome. Super stable, descends 
> like no other bike I've ridden. Load it up and hit the road or strip it 
> down and hit some singletrack. It will do it all. I have used and loved 
> this bike for many amazing rides and it has plenty of buseage to prove it. 
> Scratches, scrapes, and an unpainted fork (rattle can clear) highlight the 
> cosmetic issues but there are no dents at all, the bike rides like a dream, 
> perfectly straight, rides no handed perfect and is ready for your next 
> adventure. If you are looking for a cosmetically perfect bike this is not 
> it but if you want somethigng that sill looks great and gets compliments 
> everywhere you go and dont mind some scratches here you go.I listed this a 
> while back but had some second thoughts about selling at the time since I 
> love this bike but you know the drill, too many bikes, not enough 
> space..
>
> Fits pretty much exactly like a 62cm regular Hunq as far as stand over/tt 
> length/ect, the top tube slopes up a bit more but it still fits the same 
> just less spacers under the top nut. It's just way longer in the 
> chainstays. Definitely for a taller person, I'm just a hair shy of 6'5" and 
> the bike fits me incredibly well. The saddle height shown in the photos is 
> actually a bit higher than I run. 
>
> Build is Pretty standard Riv style but some highlights are
>
> Filet brazed Nitto bulmoose bars (discontinued)
> Brooks B17
> Velocity Hubs to Dyads
> Sugino Triple
> Awesome IRD/Silver friction shifters (I love these!)
> Avid SD& V brakes (these don't match the rest of the build that well but 
> they work amazingly! I would be happy to switch out for a set of cx70 
> cantis I have but you'd need to add you levers and cables.)
> MKS sneaker pedals
> Tires on the bike are pretty much done but I'll include some Big Bens with 
> lot's of life 
> Also will include a 40z Two Fish bottle cage
>
> $1450 plus professional packing and shipping.   
>
> I'm in Oakland, CA if you'd like to check it out
>
> Link to more photos
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0lo3ibv0lbjwxf8/AACvvaafFwjwXMiYF7TBoEQka?dl=0
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kurt
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: SP Dynamo PV-8 (silver) Laced to anodized grey TB14 32hole

[Belopsky]

Sorry, yes. 700c. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Patrick Moore]

As to batteries going cold: hell, use a bigger battery!

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> No, the *question *was whether e shifting *reduced* mis-shifts, and
> whether this *reduction* was the *reason* for devising it.
>
> I'm afraid Steve is right; you've not stated any good reason for electric
> shifting except cosmetic, and in my book, that's a pretty modest reason for
> an entirely new system.
>
> Now, I personally rather like the idea of getting rid of cams and cables
> and pinch bolts and using servomechs to shift. After all, once you take the
> indexing step, then the matter of skill is out the door, and you might as
> well choose the simpler and more reliable system.
>
> But that's back to my question: is electric shifting more reliable and
> more simple? Will the stuff last as long as STI?
>
> So, once again *(please read carefully!)*: What is, or what are, the
> reasons for switching to batteries and servo motors?
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>> Agree. But the concern was whether e-shifting leads to "mis-shifts."  In
>> my group, I haven't notice it.
>>
>>>
>>> Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works.
>>> There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I
>>> know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap
>>> loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing
>>> about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a
>>> track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In
>>> contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many frames, especially
>>> carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add
>>> in a Garmin to track everything and being able to upload your latest time
>>> and you're set!
>>>
>>> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with
>>> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring
>>> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and
>>> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t
>>> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no
>>> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is
>>> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done
>>> effortlessly!
>>>
>>>
>>> You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're
>>> limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to
>>> avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD
>>> anywhere you like).  So that gives back something that was lost when they
>>> went to STI.
>>>
>>
>> Ah, but you're limiting yourself to one system!  Yes, Shimano STI
>> shifters are positional and have limited amount of trim. Sram double tap is
>> positional too. They both also require specific shifters if you want to use
>> a triple versus a double crank.  However, Campy ergo front shifting is a
>> rachet and has multiple positions so you can shift either a triple of
>> double. It's almost like friction shifting.
>>
>> The last is Sram etap. It is also positional as you have to shift both
>> levers at once to go from big ring to small ring and visa versa.  But my
>> buddy loves it and says he has never had a mis-shift.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No,
>>> seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys -
>>> Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my
>>> group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. Simply
>>> amazingGood Luck!
>>>
>>>
>>> Other than trimming the front derailleur, you haven't give a genuine
>>> reason to do so.  The fact that it works isn't enough: cable shifting works
>>> too, and costs thousands less without requiring charging a battery.
>>> Being "new" is insufficient; you really need to show "better."  And that
>>> you haven't done.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not trying to show "better."  What I like about etap is the look. No
>> derailleur cables!  Very clean look and once they have e-braking, no cables
>> at all! ;)  If I had the money, this Mark DiNucci would be on my list
>> (click the picture for the slideshow):
>>
>> http://theradavist.com/2016/02/2016-nahbs-dinucci-classic-ro
>> ad-with-sram-red-etap/#1
>>
>> As for pricing, yes etap is pricey as the basic shifters, FD, RD and
>> charger is about $1200-1600 and complete group is about $2000-2500. But
>> that's similar to mechanical Campy SR/DA 9100/Sram Red. The most popular
>> Shimano Ultegra 11 di2 can be found for under $1000 from the UK.  Yes, you
>> can get other gruppos for less - Ultegra 11 mechanical can be found for
>> about $500-600 and 105 11 speed which is probably 85% of DA can be found
>> around $400-500.
>>
>> So if you're happy with your shifting 

Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Patrick Moore]

No, the *question *was whether e shifting *reduced* mis-shifts, and whether
this *reduction* was the *reason* for devising it.

I'm afraid Steve is right; you've not stated any good reason for electric
shifting except cosmetic, and in my book, that's a pretty modest reason for
an entirely new system.

Now, I personally rather like the idea of getting rid of cams and cables
and pinch bolts and using servomechs to shift. After all, once you take the
indexing step, then the matter of skill is out the door, and you might as
well choose the simpler and more reliable system.

But that's back to my question: is electric shifting more reliable and more
simple? Will the stuff last as long as STI?

So, once again *(please read carefully!)*: What is, or what are, the
reasons for switching to batteries and servo motors?

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:

>
>>
> Agree. But the concern was whether e-shifting leads to "mis-shifts."  In
> my group, I haven't notice it.
>
>>
>> Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works.
>> There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I
>> know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap
>> loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing
>> about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a
>> track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In
>> contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many frames, especially
>> carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add
>> in a Garmin to track everything and being able to upload your latest time
>> and you're set!
>>
>> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with
>> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring
>> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and
>> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t
>> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no
>> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is
>> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done
>> effortlessly!
>>
>>
>> You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're
>> limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to
>> avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD
>> anywhere you like).  So that gives back something that was lost when they
>> went to STI.
>>
>
> Ah, but you're limiting yourself to one system!  Yes, Shimano STI shifters
> are positional and have limited amount of trim. Sram double tap is
> positional too. They both also require specific shifters if you want to use
> a triple versus a double crank.  However, Campy ergo front shifting is a
> rachet and has multiple positions so you can shift either a triple of
> double. It's almost like friction shifting.
>
> The last is Sram etap. It is also positional as you have to shift both
> levers at once to go from big ring to small ring and visa versa.  But my
> buddy loves it and says he has never had a mis-shift.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No,
>> seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys -
>> Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my
>> group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. Simply
>> amazingGood Luck!
>>
>>
>> Other than trimming the front derailleur, you haven't give a genuine
>> reason to do so.  The fact that it works isn't enough: cable shifting works
>> too, and costs thousands less without requiring charging a battery.
>> Being "new" is insufficient; you really need to show "better."  And that
>> you haven't done.
>>
>
> I'm not trying to show "better."  What I like about etap is the look. No
> derailleur cables!  Very clean look and once they have e-braking, no cables
> at all! ;)  If I had the money, this Mark DiNucci would be on my list
> (click the picture for the slideshow):
>
> http://theradavist.com/2016/02/2016-nahbs-dinucci-classic-
> road-with-sram-red-etap/#1
>
> As for pricing, yes etap is pricey as the basic shifters, FD, RD and
> charger is about $1200-1600 and complete group is about $2000-2500. But
> that's similar to mechanical Campy SR/DA 9100/Sram Red. The most popular
> Shimano Ultegra 11 di2 can be found for under $1000 from the UK.  Yes, you
> can get other gruppos for less - Ultegra 11 mechanical can be found for
> about $500-600 and 105 11 speed which is probably 85% of DA can be found
> around $400-500.
>
> So if you're happy with your shifting and don't want to try anything new,
> keep going! Hey, I'm still have 9 speed and both my bikes (Calfee carbon
> and LItespeed ti) are over 20 years old!  Although I will admit that if I
> get something new, I'm probably going to give etap a try. :0 

[RBW] Re: FS: SP Dynamo PV-8 (silver) Laced to anodized grey TB14 32hole

[Bob B]

700c?

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:48:46 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Front wheel $200 shipped.
>
> Can potentially also sell the entire wheelset for $350 shipped.
>
> Wheel (and wheels) seen here: https://goo.gl/photos/DXqZfMPRy3PZL1av7
>
> 32 hole. Low mileage, 20miles on the front wheel. Just trued and tensioned.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 4:07:18 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 02/27/2017 07:00 PM, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:49:03 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote: 
>>
>> Continuing this aside: what exactly is the purpose of electric shifting? 
>> I assume there is some benefit to someone besides the seller, since someone 
>> or other has been trying to make it work since the mid or late '90s. Does 
>> it make mis-shifts, which I assume (right? wrong?) are more common with 
>> cables the smaller the gaps between cogs, less likely?
>>
>
> What's the purpose  of e-shifting?! Are you crazy?!  Of course, its to 
> sell more bikes!  Come on, get with it!
>
> But seriously, the latest e-shifting is fast and reliable. 
>
>
> So too is cable shifting.
>

Agree. But the concern was whether e-shifting leads to "mis-shifts."  In my 
group, I haven't notice it. 

>
> Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. 
> There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I 
> know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap 
> loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing 
> about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a 
> track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In 
> contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many frames, especially 
> carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add 
> in a Garmin to track everything and being able to upload your latest time 
> and you're set! 
>
> One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with 
> major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring 
> at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and 
> 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t 
> rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no 
> rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is 
> it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done 
> effortlessly!
>
>
> You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're 
> limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to 
> avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD 
> anywhere you like).  So that gives back something that was lost when they 
> went to STI.
>

Ah, but you're limiting yourself to one system!  Yes, Shimano STI shifters 
are positional and have limited amount of trim. Sram double tap is 
positional too. They both also require specific shifters if you want to use 
a triple versus a double crank.  However, Campy ergo front shifting is a 
rachet and has multiple positions so you can shift either a triple of 
double. It's almost like friction shifting.

The last is Sram etap. It is also positional as you have to shift both 
levers at once to go from big ring to small ring and visa versa.  But my 
buddy loves it and says he has never had a mis-shift.

>
>
>
> If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No, 
> seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys - 
> Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my 
> group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. Simply 
> amazingGood Luck!
>
>
> Other than trimming the front derailleur, you haven't give a genuine 
> reason to do so.  The fact that it works isn't enough: cable shifting works 
> too, and costs thousands less without requiring charging a battery.
> Being "new" is insufficient; you really need to show "better."  And that 
> you haven't done.
>

I'm not trying to show "better."  What I like about etap is the look. No 
derailleur cables!  Very clean look and once they have e-braking, no cables 
at all! ;)  If I had the money, this Mark DiNucci would be on my list 
(click the picture for the slideshow):

http://theradavist.com/2016/02/2016-nahbs-dinucci-classic-road-with-sram-red-etap/#1

As for pricing, yes etap is pricey as the basic shifters, FD, RD and 
charger is about $1200-1600 and complete group is about $2000-2500. But 
that's similar to mechanical Campy SR/DA 9100/Sram Red. The most popular 
Shimano Ultegra 11 di2 can be found for under $1000 from the UK.  Yes, you 
can get other gruppos for less - Ultegra 11 mechanical can be found for 
about $500-600 and 105 11 speed which is probably 85% of DA can be found 
around $400-500.

So if you're happy with your shifting and don't want to try anything new, 
keep going! Hey, I'm still have 9 speed and both my bikes (Calfee carbon 
and LItespeed ti) are over 20 years old!  Although I will admit that if I 
get something new, I'm probably going to give etap a try. :0  Good Luck!   

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/27/2017 07:00 PM, Brewster Fong wrote:



On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:49:03 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

Continuing this aside: what exactly is the purpose of electric
shifting? I assume there is some benefit to someone besides the
seller, since someone or other has been trying to make it work
since the mid or late '90s. Does it make mis-shifts, which I
assume (right? wrong?) are more common with cables the smaller the
gaps between cogs, less likely?


What's the purpose  of e-shifting?! Are you crazy?!  Of course, its to 
sell more bikes!  Come on, get with it!


But seriously, the latest e-shifting is fast and reliable.


So too is cable shifting.

Unlike the old Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. 
There's basically tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people 
I know have Shimano ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram 
etap loves it too and in fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The 
best thing about etap is there's no wires. So if you like your bike to 
look like a track bike with only brakes cables, then this is the 
system for you!  In contrast, Shimano di2 does require wires, but many 
frames, especially carbon ones, are being designed to hide the battery 
and control boxes. Add in a Garmin to track everything and being able 
to upload your latest time and you're set!


One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys 
with major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big 
chainring at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 
chainrings and 11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t 
big ring and 32t rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   
With di2, there's no rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts 
to avoid any noise. Now is it good for the life of the chain? Who 
cares, everything is done effortlessly!


You've neglected to mention, with integrated brake/shift levers you're 
limited in how much adjustment you can make of the front derailleur to 
avoid rubbing (unlike friction shifters, where you can position the FD 
anywhere you like).  So that gives back something that was lost when 
they went to STI.





If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! 
No, seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys - 
Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in 
my group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc 
brakes. Simply amazingGood Luck!


Other than trimming the front derailleur, you haven't give a genuine 
reason to do so.  The fact that it works isn't enough: cable shifting 
works too, and costs thousands less without requiring charging a battery.
Being "new" is insufficient; you really need to show "better."  And that 
you haven't done.



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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Christopher Cote]

I remember when those came out. Wasn't there a kerfuffle over the name (or 
proposed name)? What happened to Kogswell?


On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:22:41 AM UTC-5, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> Saw an ebay listing for a 62cm Kogswell P and the ad copy stated it was an 
> exact copy of the Rambouillet geometry. IIRC, the P was only made briefly, 
> used lugs and HT tubes out of Taiwan.  Does anyone know if was in fact a 
> close relative or truly an exact copy? 
>
> Hard to believe, but the Ram took a "nap" about 10 years ago now and still 
> hasn't woken up :)  I saw an Orange 55 CM frame here on the list this week 
> and ALMOST bought it. It is truly a big too big though, even if I built it 
> as a 650B. I hope someone who will enjoy its ride gets it and builds it up. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Brewster Fong]

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:49:03 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Continuing this aside: what exactly is the purpose of electric shifting? I 
> assume there is some benefit to someone besides the seller, since someone 
> or other has been trying to make it work since the mid or late '90s. Does 
> it make mis-shifts, which I assume (right? wrong?) are more common with 
> cables the smaller the gaps between cogs, less likely?
>

What's the purpose  of e-shifting?! Are you crazy?!  Of course, its to sell 
more bikes!  Come on, get with it!

But seriously, the latest e-shifting is fast and reliable. Unlike the old 
Mavic Zap stuff from the 90s, this stuff really works. There's basically 
tiny computers controlling the shifting. Most people I know have Shimano 
ultegra di2 and love it. But the one guy with Sram etap loves it too and in 
fact, upgraded his second bike to it. The best thing about etap is there's 
no wires. So if you like your bike to look like a track bike with only 
brakes cables, then this is the system for you!  In contrast, Shimano di2 
does require wires, but many frames, especially carbon ones, are being 
designed to hide the battery and control boxes. Add in a Garmin to track 
everything and being able to upload your latest time and you're set! 

One interesting thing that I notice is you see with all these guys with 
major cross chain where you're in the big cog in the back and big chainring 
at the same time. Further, with 11 speeds, you can get 50/34 chainrings and 
11-32 in the rear. So, you see guys riding in their 50t big ring and 32t 
rear cog, with no noise or protest from the system!   With di2, there's no 
rubbing either as the FD "automatically" shifts to avoid any noise. Now is 
it good for the life of the chain? Who cares, everything is done 
effortlessly!

If you don't have guys in your group with e-shifting, shame on you! No, 
seriously, go down to a LBS and check it out. Go to the big boys - 
Trek/Specialized/C'dale/Giant. You'll see the latest! The big thing in my 
group that got everyone drooling is etap with hydraulic disc brakes. Simply 
amazingGood Luck! 

 

>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Steve Palincsar  > wrote:
>
>> Yes, that happened to a woman on a ride I led a couple of weeks ago.  Not 
>> a way to make me fall in love with that technology, unless there's a 
>> special use-case involved.  Those stick them anywhere auxiliary shift 
>> buttons could be a godsend to someone with only one hand that works (and I 
>> have encountered such folks along the way) but certainly for me it's a 
>> solution that offers nothing whatsoever.
>>
>> On 02/27/2017 06:04 PM, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> I was on a ride last week when two guys on bikes rolled in to the coffee 
>> place. One was on a bike with electronic shifting. Halfway through a 
>> 40-mile ride, he was stuck in the small ring because the bike’s battery was 
>> low. Granted, he said he hardly ever has to charge the bike’s batteries, 
>> but my “old-fashioned” bikes with cable-actuated shifting will never have 
>> that problem. 
>>
>> Disclaimer: I have plenty of electronics with me when I ride … just not 
>> shifters. If all my batteries died, my bike would still work.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com 
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Brewster Fong > > wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, my riding buddies all have the latest in bicycles. They're all 
>> drooling over disc brakes and e-shifting and if you don't have either, well 
>> watch out for all the death and destruction!
>>
>> So, I'm the guy with the "old bikes" in the group. Both of my bikes were 
>> both used - a 94-ish Calfee carbon bike and a 90-ish Litespeed Classic. I 
>> bought my Calfee used in 1997 and I believe its a 94 model. It is strong 
>> and I easily expect it to last another 20 years. My litespeed was picked up 
>> a few years ago for $400 and it is now my commuter with fenders and lights. 
>> Both are running Campy 9 speed, although I'm considering "upgrading" the 
>> Calfee to 11 speed as I would like to check out the Campy 3rd gen ergo 
>> levers which I call gumby hood. 
>>
>> I'm old and fat, so I really not interested in the latest. But what's 
>> newGood Luck!
>>
>> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:36:50 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote: 
>>>
>>> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
>>> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
>>> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
>>> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
>>> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
>>> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
>>> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
>>> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday! 
>>>
>>> 

Re: [RBW] When is a bike old?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 02/27/2017 09:36 AM, Addison Wilhite wrote:
I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the 
rushing Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my 
"beautiful old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And 
then it occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my 
Allrounder is going on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks 
sharp...I've taken care of it through commutes and offroading and 
tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and posting a couple pics.  Happy 
Monday!


http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html



By the standards of most consumer goods, 18 is pretty old (imagine an 18 
year old computer) but bicycle frames are in an entirely different 
category.  At least, steel ones are.  (I wouldn't bet on 18 year old 
carbon or aluminum.)  Steel's pretty sturdy!  Stuff like cranks, bottom 
brackets and wheels are really just consumable parts, they're not /the 
bike/ -- that's the frame.  Swap wheels and it's still the same 
Allrounder; go from 7 to 8 to 9 as I did with my 1991 Titanium Spectrum 
and it's really nothing more than replacing shifters and cassettes, 
obviously still the same bike.


Consider for a moment the 1963 Jack Taylor frame and fork that's been 
posted on another list.  Wheels, brakes and a drive train are required, 
but pick the right ones and that bike could be every bit as nice and 
just about as contemporary as your Allrounder or, for that matter, a 
brand new Roadeo.  Well, a tiny bit limited by the 120mm dropout 
spacing, that standard is at this point /old/ and it is limiting 
compared to 130 but basically it just limits you to no more than 6 
sprockets.  But that's a frame that's almost 55 years old.   With the 
right set of parts you can have perfectly contemporary performance, 
albeit within the limitation of having only 18 speeds to choose from.  
(However, it's my belief that all 18 could actually be used.)


There are several bikes shown in The Golden Age of Handbuilt Bikes that 
went back to the builder at some point for modernization and updating.  
I think I recall one Herse that was updated by Alex Singer.  The idea 
that bikes are disposables certainly hadn't come about at that point.




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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Patrick Moore]

Continuing this aside: what exactly is the purpose of electric shifting? I
assume there is some benefit to someone besides the seller, since someone
or other has been trying to make it work since the mid or late '90s. Does
it make mis-shifts, which I assume (right? wrong?) are more common with
cables the smaller the gaps between cogs, less likely?



On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Yes, that happened to a woman on a ride I led a couple of weeks ago.  Not
> a way to make me fall in love with that technology, unless there's a
> special use-case involved.  Those stick them anywhere auxiliary shift
> buttons could be a godsend to someone with only one hand that works (and I
> have encountered such folks along the way) but certainly for me it's a
> solution that offers nothing whatsoever.
>
> On 02/27/2017 06:04 PM, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> I was on a ride last week when two guys on bikes rolled in to the coffee
> place. One was on a bike with electronic shifting. Halfway through a
> 40-mile ride, he was stuck in the small ring because the bike’s battery was
> low. Granted, he said he hardly ever has to charge the bike’s batteries,
> but my “old-fashioned” bikes with cable-actuated shifting will never have
> that problem.
>
> Disclaimer: I have plenty of electronics with me when I ride … just not
> shifters. If all my batteries died, my bike would still work.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:
>
> Yeah, my riding buddies all have the latest in bicycles. They're all
> drooling over disc brakes and e-shifting and if you don't have either, well
> watch out for all the death and destruction!
>
> So, I'm the guy with the "old bikes" in the group. Both of my bikes were
> both used - a 94-ish Calfee carbon bike and a 90-ish Litespeed Classic. I
> bought my Calfee used in 1997 and I believe its a 94 model. It is strong
> and I easily expect it to last another 20 years. My litespeed was picked up
> a few years ago for $400 and it is now my commuter with fenders and lights.
> Both are running Campy 9 speed, although I'm considering "upgrading" the
> Calfee to 11 speed as I would like to check out the Campy 3rd gen ergo
> levers which I call gumby hood.
>
> I'm old and fat, so I really not interested in the latest. But what's
> newGood Luck!
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:36:50 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote:
>>
>> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but
>> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing
>> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful
>> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it
>> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going
>> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it
>> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and
>> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>>
>> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>>
>> Addison Wilhite, M.A.
>>
>>
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*Stat crux dum volvitur orbis.* *(The cross stands motionless while the
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*Kinei hos eromenon.* (*It moves [all things] as the beloved.) *Aristotle

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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Frank Brose]

I have a P58 for sale with new paint from Chris Kvale. Built after paint 
rode three times unbuilt because I decided to stick with 650b. I also had a 
Ram 58. I really liked both but I really like 650b. more. The difference 
between the two was  small,very small to someone like me.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 8:22:41 AM UTC-6, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> Saw an ebay listing for a 62cm Kogswell P and the ad copy stated it was an 
> exact copy of the Rambouillet geometry. IIRC, the P was only made briefly, 
> used lugs and HT tubes out of Taiwan.  Does anyone know if was in fact a 
> close relative or truly an exact copy? 
>
> Hard to believe, but the Ram took a "nap" about 10 years ago now and still 
> hasn't woken up :)  I saw an Orange 55 CM frame here on the list this week 
> and ALMOST bought it. It is truly a big too big though, even if I built it 
> as a 650B. I hope someone who will enjoy its ride gets it and builds it up. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Brewster Fong]

I have to admit that if I was going to go to e-shifting, etap is the way to 
go. Yes, you do have to monitor the battery to make sure its charged, but 
my buddy says he "rarely" ever charges it and probably only does it once a 
month. Still, the wireless feature is kind of neat, makes a bike look like 
a track bike!  

However, I'm the luddite and am holding out against disc brakes. Too many 
standards and it doesn't seem necessary for road bikes. Now off-road is 
different and I hear its great!  In contrast, my "buddies" are amazed that 
I still use single-pivot brakes and haven't killed anyone yet

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:04:14 PM UTC-8, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> I was on a ride last week when two guys on bikes rolled in to the coffee 
> place. One was on a bike with electronic shifting. Halfway through a 
> 40-mile ride, he was stuck in the small ring because the bike’s battery was 
> low. Granted, he said he hardly ever has to charge the bike’s batteries, 
> but my “old-fashioned” bikes with cable-actuated shifting will never have 
> that problem.
>
> Disclaimer: I have plenty of electronics with me when I ride … just not 
> shifters. If all my batteries died, my bike would still work.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Brewster Fong  
> wrote:
>
> Yeah, my riding buddies all have the latest in bicycles. They're all 
> drooling over disc brakes and e-shifting and if you don't have either, well 
> watch out for all the death and destruction!
>
> So, I'm the guy with the "old bikes" in the group. Both of my bikes were 
> both used - a 94-ish Calfee carbon bike and a 90-ish Litespeed Classic. I 
> bought my Calfee used in 1997 and I believe its a 94 model. It is strong 
> and I easily expect it to last another 20 years. My litespeed was picked up 
> a few years ago for $400 and it is now my commuter with fenders and lights. 
> Both are running Campy 9 speed, although I'm considering "upgrading" the 
> Calfee to 11 speed as I would like to check out the Campy 3rd gen ergo 
> levers which I call gumby hood. 
>
> I'm old and fat, so I really not interested in the latest. But what's 
> newGood Luck!
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:36:50 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote:
>>
>> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
>> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
>> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
>> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
>> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
>> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
>> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
>> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>>
>> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>>
>> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>>
>> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>>  
>>
>> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>>
>> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>>
>> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Steve Palincsar]

Yes, that happened to a woman on a ride I led a couple of weeks ago.  
Not a way to make me fall in love with that technology, unless there's a 
special use-case involved.  Those stick them anywhere auxiliary shift 
buttons could be a godsend to someone with only one hand that works (and 
I have encountered such folks along the way) but certainly for me it's a 
solution that offers nothing whatsoever.



On 02/27/2017 06:04 PM, Eric Norris wrote:
I was on a ride last week when two guys on bikes rolled in to the 
coffee place. One was on a bike with electronic shifting. Halfway 
through a 40-mile ride, he was stuck in the small ring because the 
bike’s battery was low. Granted, he said he hardly ever has to charge 
the bike’s batteries, but my “old-fashioned” bikes with cable-actuated 
shifting will never have that problem.


Disclaimer: I have plenty of electronics with me when I ride … just 
not shifters. If all my batteries died, my bike would still work.


--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com 
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Brewster Fong > wrote:


Yeah, my riding buddies all have the latest in bicycles. They're all 
drooling over disc brakes and e-shifting and if you don't have 
either, well watch out for all the death and destruction!


So, I'm the guy with the "old bikes" in the group. Both of my bikes 
were both used - a 94-ish Calfee carbon bike and a 90-ish Litespeed 
Classic. I bought my Calfee used in 1997 and I believe its a 94 
model. It is strong and I easily expect it to last another 20 years. 
My litespeed was picked up a few years ago for $400 and it is now my 
commuter with fenders and lights. Both are running Campy 9 speed, 
although I'm considering "upgrading" the Calfee to 11 speed as I 
would like to check out the Campy 3rd gen ergo levers which I call 
gumby hood.


I'm old and fat, so I really not interested in the latest. But what's 
newGood Luck!


On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:36:50 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote:

I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time
now but yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a
photo of the rushing Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to
compliment me on my "beautiful old bike."  I just said thanks and
didn't correct him.  And then it occurred to me that I shouldn't
correct him because my Allrounder is going on 18 years of age. 
Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it through

commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and
posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html


Addison Wilhite, M.A.




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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Steve Palincsar]

Wow.  I sure do like the look of that Bianchi!  Honestly, when you 
factor in that chain guard, crank and fenders, Clementine doesn't stand 
a chance in the "fairest of them all" competition.



On 02/27/2017 05:39 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Here's the oldest bicycle in my current stable, a Bianchi 650b city 
bike. Due to poor impulse control, it just got bumped down the line in 
terms of getting it roadworthy.




Of course, despite being, by far, my newest bicycle in terms of date 
of manufacture, my Clementine has an ageless beauty.






On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:36:50 AM UTC-5, Addison wrote:

I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now
but yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of
the rushing Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment
me on my "beautiful old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't
correct him.  And then it occurred to me that I shouldn't correct
him because my Allrounder is going on 18 years of age.  Many miles
but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it through commutes and
offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and posting a
couple pics.  Happy Monday!


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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Eric Norris]

I was on a ride last week when two guys on bikes rolled in to the coffee place. 
One was on a bike with electronic shifting. Halfway through a 40-mile ride, he 
was stuck in the small ring because the bike’s battery was low. Granted, he 
said he hardly ever has to charge the bike’s batteries, but my “old-fashioned” 
bikes with cable-actuated shifting will never have that problem.

Disclaimer: I have plenty of electronics with me when I ride … just not 
shifters. If all my batteries died, my bike would still work.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Feb 27, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, my riding buddies all have the latest in bicycles. They're all drooling 
> over disc brakes and e-shifting and if you don't have either, well watch out 
> for all the death and destruction!
> 
> So, I'm the guy with the "old bikes" in the group. Both of my bikes were both 
> used - a 94-ish Calfee carbon bike and a 90-ish Litespeed Classic. I bought 
> my Calfee used in 1997 and I believe its a 94 model. It is strong and I 
> easily expect it to last another 20 years. My litespeed was picked up a few 
> years ago for $400 and it is now my commuter with fenders and lights. Both 
> are running Campy 9 speed, although I'm considering "upgrading" the Calfee to 
> 11 speed as I would like to check out the Campy 3rd gen ergo levers which I 
> call gumby hood. 
> 
> I'm old and fat, so I really not interested in the latest. But what's 
> newGood Luck!
> 
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:36:50 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote:
> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful old 
> bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it occurred to 
> me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going on 18 years of 
> age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it through commutes 
> and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and posting a couple 
> pics.  Happy Monday!
> 
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html 
> 
> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
> 
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology  
> 
> “Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”
> 
> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Brewster Fong]

Yeah, my riding buddies all have the latest in bicycles. They're all 
drooling over disc brakes and e-shifting and if you don't have either, well 
watch out for all the death and destruction!

So, I'm the guy with the "old bikes" in the group. Both of my bikes were 
both used - a 94-ish Calfee carbon bike and a 90-ish Litespeed Classic. I 
bought my Calfee used in 1997 and I believe its a 94 model. It is strong 
and I easily expect it to last another 20 years. My litespeed was picked up 
a few years ago for $400 and it is now my commuter with fenders and lights. 
Both are running Campy 9 speed, although I'm considering "upgrading" the 
Calfee to 11 speed as I would like to check out the Campy 3rd gen ergo 
levers which I call gumby hood. 

I'm old and fat, so I really not interested in the latest. But what's 
newGood Luck!

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 6:36:50 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote:
>
> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>
> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>  
>
> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>
> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>
> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Don Compton]

Wow, the 60 cm Kogswell P's geometry is identical to my old blue 60 cm 
Rambouillet.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 9:19:00 PM UTC-8, eflayer wrote:
>
> The truth be told:
>
> http://yojimg.net/bike/kogswell/kogswell_docs/Model%20P/Model%20P.pdf
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 6:22:41 AM UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>> Saw an ebay listing for a 62cm Kogswell P and the ad copy stated it was 
>> an exact copy of the Rambouillet geometry. IIRC, the P was only made 
>> briefly, used lugs and HT tubes out of Taiwan.  Does anyone know if was in 
>> fact a close relative or truly an exact copy? 
>>
>> Hard to believe, but the Ram took a "nap" about 10 years ago now and 
>> still hasn't woken up :)  I saw an Orange 55 CM frame here on the list this 
>> week and ALMOST bought it. It is truly a big too big though, even if I 
>> built it as a 650B. I hope someone who will enjoy its ride gets it and 
>> builds it up. 
>>
>

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[RBW] F/S 62cm Proto- Hunqapillar/Bomba

[Kurt Manley]

Up for sale is my awesome Riv ProtoVelo. This was a long bike 
Hunqapillar-ish prototype. It has ProtoVelo decals but a Hunq headbadge. 
Regardless of what you call it it's a rad on and off road bike with a limo 
like ride. 
I've used this bike for everything from grocery shopping to long off road 
backcountry touring. It has always been awesome. Super stable, descends 
like no other bike I've ridden. Load it up and hit the road or strip it 
down and hit some singletrack. It will do it all. I have used and loved 
this bike for many amazing rides and it has plenty of buseage to prove it. 
Scratches, scrapes, and an unpainted fork (rattle can clear) highlight the 
cosmetic issues but there are no dents at all, the bike rides like a dream, 
perfectly straight, rides no handed perfect and is ready for your next 
adventure. If you are looking for a cosmetically perfect bike this is not 
it but if you want somethigng that sill looks great and gets compliments 
everywhere you go and dont mind some scratches here you go.I listed this a 
while back but had some second thoughts about selling at the time since I 
love this bike but you know the drill, too many bikes, not enough 
space..

Fits pretty much exactly like a 62cm regular Hunq as far as stand over/tt 
length/ect, the top tube slopes up a bit more but it still fits the same 
just less spacers under the top nut. It's just way longer in the 
chainstays. Definitely for a taller person, I'm just a hair shy of 6'5" and 
the bike fits me incredibly well. The saddle height shown in the photos is 
actually a bit higher than I run. 

Build is Pretty standard Riv style but some highlights are

Filet brazed Nitto bulmoose bars (discontinued)
Brooks B17
Velocity Hubs to Dyads
Sugino Triple
Awesome IRD/Silver friction shifters (I love these!)
Avid SD& V brakes (these don't match the rest of the build that well but 
they work amazingly! I would be happy to switch out for a set of cx70 
cantis I have but you'd need to add you levers and cables.)
MKS sneaker pedals
Tires on the bike are pretty much done but I'll include some Big Bens with 
lot's of life 
Also will include a 40z Two Fish bottle cage

$1450 plus professional packing and shipping.   

I'm in Oakland, CA if you'd like to check it out

Link to more photos
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0lo3ibv0lbjwxf8/AACvvaafFwjwXMiYF7TBoEQka?dl=0

Thanks!

Kurt

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[RBW] FS: Velocity Atlas / Velo Orange Grand Cru Fixed/Single Speed $225 shipped

[Belopsky]

Need these gone. Going with a lighter set for my upcoming build.

Sapim Race 2.0/1.8 spokes. 32hole.

Rims have 200miles. Hubs are brand new. Laced these up and never mounted 
tubes or tires. May need final tensioning though they are good right now.

Photos:
https://goo.gl/photos/X4eB4XRoamLdCEEC8

$225 shipped

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Bob Lovejoy]

Not that I, uhhh, would be looking for or have room for a new bike, though 
I think that Gossamer's Appaloosa is beautiful...

But curiosity has its place so I was looking up the geometry for the 
Appaloosa and found that the specific Appaloosa page lists, I believe, 
physical top tube length versus effective, while the "Bike Geometry" page 
lists "effective top tube" length (with the 6 degree slope of the the top 
tube).  "Front Center" measurements are also shown differently.

https://www.rivbike.com/collections/framesets/products/appaloosa-framesets

[image: image]

https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry




I know both are "right", probably anyway, or at least have a basis in 
reality. I also know that somewhere, when the Appaloosa's came out, there 
were warnings and admonitions and maybe even slightly different versions of 
the frame(?).  Still, without that, the differences in reporting might 
mislead someone, at some point, as they analyze and envision.  We all know 
that conversations with the RIv folks are a good idea - and they are! 
 Still, my age is showing when inconsistencies make me twitch...

Back to normal programming...  Sorry for the twitching and noise!

Bob

 

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[RBW] Re: thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[Garth]

This may help or it may confuse you more ...prolly a bit of both !  
https://www.schwalbetires.com/sites/all/definitions/Performance.html
   

*RaceGuard®*
This belt was developed specially with racing in mind. A synthesis of 
special india rubber and several layers of nylon fabric offers very 
effective protection against penetration punctures. There is only a minimal 
increase in weight and rolling resistance of these tires.

 
>
  *SnakeSkin:* A light and flexible carcass makes the tire highly 
resistant to scrubbing.

*   LiteSkin:* Skin Tires have light, thin sidewalls. Advantages: 
> Weight saving and reduced rolling resistance.


 
It appears the raceguard version relies on a fabric belt with the lightskin 
sidewalls for puncture resistance whereas the snakeskin is "A light and 
flexible carcass makes the tire highly resistant to scrubbing" .  So that 
infers a completely different carcass .  

So Drew I'd assume a snakeskin version would be a good choice for you. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Tim Gavin]

Wow, I love the carbide headlamp on that Flying Merkel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbide_lamp

The "halloween backgammon" paint job is awesome too.

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> ps - a 1917 Flying Merkel
>
> 
>
> looks pretty Rivesque from a distance
>
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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ron Mc]

ps - a 1917 Flying Merkel



looks pretty Rivesque from a distance

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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Ron Mc]

Stopped in my LBS today to get a new Whitworth 26 tpi headsead installed on 
a 57 Lenton GP bare frame and original fork I bought recently.  
On they build stand they had (another) new Cervelo P5.  
How's that for a contrast?  

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[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[cyclotourist]

Depending on what my role is, it will probably be the one I do. I might get 
stuck doing road signage that a.m., which would me no riding at all :-(
I love the roll out in the morning, and the after party, so as long as I 
get both of those accomplished, I'm happy!!!


On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8, Doug Peterson wrote:
>
> David:
>
> Thanks a bunch!  Look forward to doing it.
>
> doug
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:59:34 AM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>>
>> FYI, working on a 20 mile option, with good dirt and less climbing. This 
>> will be an off the books sort of thing to keep as a backup plan!
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:04 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>>>
>>> Calendared it for March 18th!
>>>
>>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html
>>>
>>> Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Cheers,
>>> David
>>>
>>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>>
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[Doug Peterson]

David:

Thanks a bunch!  Look forward to doing it.

doug

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:59:34 AM UTC-8, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> FYI, working on a 20 mile option, with good dirt and less climbing. This 
> will be an off the books sort of thing to keep as a backup plan!
>
>
> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:04 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>>
>> Calendared it for March 18th!
>>
>> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html
>>
>> Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Cheers,
>> David
>>
>> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] thunder burt snakeskin vs raceguard

[drew]

so im doing a couple day tour on about 50/50 pavement and dirt. i really 
like the marathon supremes on my hunq (and actually think they are decently 
supple at the right pressure). but im not the best dirt rider, especially 
with a camping load. the last time i did this it felt like i was sliding 
around a lot. 

per the previous hunq-tire thread, id like to try the thunder burts. i'll 
be using tubes and i value puncture protection over super low weight. im 
more drawn to the tread, which seems pretty versatile, than to the low 
rolling resistance... though thats a plus

schwalbe has a description for snakeskin, liteskin and raceguard, but not a 
very good comparison between the 3. im pretty sure that i dont want 
liteskin, but im wondering what the difference between raceguard and 
snakeskin are.

and then follow up, while i'm at it. are these gonna be too fragile for 
touring?

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[RBW] WANTED: Nitto HiRiser 1-1/8" @ Ø25.4

[Wally Estrella]

WANTED: Nitto HiRiser 1-1/8" @ Ø25.4

Anyone have one? 

https://www.rivbike.com/products/nitto-hiriser-25-4-1-1-8-threadless-stem-16252?variant=23337063489


Hit me offlinePlease and Thank You!

CHEERS!
Wally



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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[Bill Lindsay]

Flashback to a Broadway moment:

"Hello!  You won't believe how much this bike will change your life!"

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:40:00 AM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Great news for all, it sounds like.  And boy, oh boy - just wait.  You're 
> not even going to believe how much you like single track once you hit it 
> with the Jones!
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[iamkeith]

Great news for all, it sounds like.  And boy, oh boy - just wait.  You're 
not even going to believe how much you like single track once you hit it 
with the Jones!

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:32:17 AM UTC-7, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> And SOLD.  Thanks for the interest REALLY, thanks for the sale.  I 
> went on a hunch that the Bomba would sell at this price and went ahead and 
> committed to buying a local used Jones+ 24" complete bike.  Money hasn't 
> changed hands on the Jones purchase yet but it appears to be solid.
>
> Now Saturday won't be as awkward with me adding a bike to the garage.  I'm 
> sad to see the Bomba go but mostly grateful for the unbelievable 
> introduction to singletrack riding it gave me.  
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Tony DeFilippo  > wrote:
>
>> SALE!!!  One of my target bikes came up at a tempting price, so long as 
>> it's available I'm motivated for a quick sale.
>>
>> F/F/HS/BB - $1,100 to me... You pay the shipping.
>>
>> Also happy to talk components.
>>
>> Help me out this morning and we could both be very happy! :)
>>
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>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: fillet-brazed 650B triple triangle F/F/HS/Fenders/Racks

[S. Greco]

Rear spacing is 135. I am located in New England and willing to drop off / 
meet someone within a reasonable distance from Providence, Rhode Island.

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[iamkeith]

Thanks for taking the time to answer, Gossamer.  Like Scott said, it's 
always useful to compare setups and hear what works for others - ESPECIALLY 
when the bike is your size (that's a 58, right?), or the questions are ones 
you've wrestled with.  I wish I had the money to buy this.  I'm kind of 
kicking myself for buying a 59 Clem on pre-sale, that I knew was too big... 
just before these Joes were announced.  Couldn't swing both, but this one 
would have been the better choice for what I was after.  Your experience 
and explanation is very helpful and confirms that it would have been the 
right choice.   C'est la vie.  Hope the sale goes well for you.

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 8:49:07 AM UTC-7, Gossamer wrote:
>
> Not inappropriate at all. More than happy to answer. While I agree with 
> the sizing methodology that RBW shares, I made the mistake in this 
> instance. Will tried to tell me, and I didn't listen, that this would not 
> be my best choice for a drop-bar bicycle when compared to the Atlantis. I 
> ordered it with the choco-moose bars thinking I could enjoy them and simply 
> cannot. I tried to put the shortest stem I can, along with a comfortable 
> drop bar but it's too much of a reach. As I've gotten older, I've become 
> less tolerant to little inconveniences on my bicycles. Rather than fight 
> this, I'll sell it, take my lumps and do what I should have done from the 
> onset.
>
> Hopefully someone will see the value in what I'm offering and buy it 
> quickly. Feel free to ask other questions, should you have any.
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 10:55:45 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:
>>
>> Hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but is that saddle set at your 
>> proper height?  If so, it looks to be an almost perfect fit, to me. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Bob Lovejoy]

Understood, and I suspect many of us could say "been there...".  The 
Appaloosa's just take the long top tube, and chain stays for that matter, 
to new territory, which is certainly not bad but, yeah, wow!

If you still have the stock levers and shifters from the Choco Moose setup, 
it seems they would would work on the Ahearn bars, though I have not 
checked.  The other good news is that at least the M/A bars do not need bar 
tape, just grips, so they are a little easier to deal with.  That said, I 
do know changing bars (repeatedly) on a bike is a real pain, no matter what.

Again, good luck with the sale - or the experiment!  I will say I know 
people with Atlantis' will confirm that they are a pretty magical 
combination of things, not easily matched.

Best to you,

Bob

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:05:40 AM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:
>
> You offer an interesting solution and I'll seriously consider it. My issue 
> is that I think the bars need to come back, as the bike was designed, to an 
> area appreciably behind the head tube. What I want to avoid is the constant 
> churn of handlebars, tape, shifters, levers...on and on. I do enjoy the 
> bike but am kicking myself for not doing what I was told. Will said, "If 
> you want an Atlantis, get the Atlantis. You'll wish you had." To be honest, 
> I thought I could accomplish the "Atlantis" feel for less than what it 
> would cost. I should know better by now.
>
> I will say this, the disadvantage I found with the choco moose bars, aside 
> from comfort (subjective) was that bar-end shifters make it difficult to 
> turn at times because of how they hit your knees when you turn or maneuver. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Gossamer: You might be able to solve that shifters-hit-knees problem with a 
different pullback bar and long stem. I don't use bar-ends on my 51cm 
Appaloosa, but I found that the Choco-Moose bars were just a smidge closer than 
I liked. I switched to an Albatross on a 12cm Nitto Pearl stem and got the room 
I needed: The stem is longer than the theoretical stem length on Choco-Moose, 
and Albas have more forward reach at the curves. 

I don't know if this will completely solve your shifter issue, but I think - 
considering the bike is too big with drops - it will lessen it considerably. 

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Gossamer]

You offer an interesting solution and I'll seriously consider it. My issue 
is that I think the bars need to come back, as the bike was designed, to an 
area appreciably behind the head tube. What I want to avoid is the constant 
churn of handlebars, tape, shifters, levers...on and on. I do enjoy the 
bike but am kicking myself for not doing what I was told. Will said, "If 
you want an Atlantis, get the Atlantis. You'll wish you had." To be honest, 
I thought I could accomplish the "Atlantis" feel for less than what it 
would cost. I should know better by now.

I will say this, the disadvantage I found with the choco moose bars, aside 
from comfort (subjective) was that bar-end shifters make it difficult to 
turn at times because of how they hit your knees when you turn or maneuver. 

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 10:13:33 AM UTC-6, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> I just want to throw this in... I was working with a bike that I knew had 
> too long of a top tube for drop bars but still loved (a Velo Orange 
> Polyvalent).  I set it up anyway for drops, using a Nitto dirt drop stem, 
> and that was ok, but just barely.  The experiments continued though, 
> changing out the drop bars and stem with a normal Nitto stem (10cm?) and 
> the Map / Ahearn all round handlebars ( 
> http://www.benscycle.com/p-1244-map-ahearne-all-rounder-handlebar-254-silver.aspx
>  
> ).  These, for me anyway, are a true middle-ground with regards to reach, 
> effectiveness, and fun riding.
>
> I hope the sale and all goes as you want it to as it is a beautiful bike! 
>  That said, if not, it might be worth an experiment with the MAP/Ahearn 
> bars.
>
> I have hopefully attached a couple of somewhat recent pictures of my 
> Polyvalent with the Ahearne bars.  Just throwing it out as a possibility.
>
> Good luck with the sale if it comes to that!
>
> Bob Lovejoy
> Galesburg, IL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:49:07 AM UTC-6, Gossamer wrote:
>>
>> Not inappropriate at all. More than happy to answer. While I agree with 
>> the sizing methodology that RBW shares, I made the mistake in this 
>> instance. Will tried to tell me, and I didn't listen, that this would not 
>> be my best choice for a drop-bar bicycle when compared to the Atlantis. I 
>> ordered it with the choco-moose bars thinking I could enjoy them and simply 
>> cannot. I tried to put the shortest stem I can, along with a comfortable 
>> drop bar but it's too much of a reach. As I've gotten older, I've become 
>> less tolerant to little inconveniences on my bicycles. Rather than fight 
>> this, I'll sell it, take my lumps and do what I should have done from the 
>> onset.
>>
>> Hopefully someone will see the value in what I'm offering and buy it 
>> quickly. Feel free to ask other questions, should you have any.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 2017 Redlands Strada Rossa

[cyclotourist]

FYI, working on a 20 mile option, with good dirt and less climbing. This 
will be an off the books sort of thing to keep as a backup plan!


On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 11:02:04 PM UTC-7, cyclotourist wrote:
>
> Calendared it for March 18th!
>
> http://redlands-strada-rossa.blogspot.com/2016/09/march-18-2017.html
>
> Hope to see some familiar faces this spring!
>
>
> -- 
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[drew]

My SO's dad consistently claims that his best friend had the same bike 
(hunqapillar) when they were younger. ive given up trying to say otherwise. 
i think he just sees green+lugs=same bike

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Daniel D.]

I dont know, seems like a nitpicky reason to return a tire...

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[RBW] FS: SP Dynamo PV-8 (silver) Laced to anodized grey TB14 32hole

[Belopsky]

Front wheel $200 shipped.

Can potentially also sell the entire wheelset for $350 shipped.

Wheel (and wheels) seen here: https://goo.gl/photos/DXqZfMPRy3PZL1av7

32 hole. Low mileage, 20miles on the front wheel. Just trued and tensioned.

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[RBW] When is a bike old?

[Garth]

You can call a bike anything you want but a bike is still a bike no matter when.



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[RBW] Re: FS: fillet-brazed 650B triple triangle F/F/HS/Fenders/Racks

[Brian Campbell]

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 3:30:51 PM UTC-5, S. Greco wrote:
>
> some more dims:
>
> 18.5 cm set back
> 4 cm trail
> 45.5 cm chain stays
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Nice! What is the rear spacing and where are you located?
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Gossamer]

Not inappropriate at all. More than happy to answer. While I agree with the 
sizing methodology that RBW shares, I made the mistake in this instance. 
Will tried to tell me, and I didn't listen, that this would not be my best 
choice for a drop-bar bicycle when compared to the Atlantis. I ordered it 
with the choco-moose bars thinking I could enjoy them and simply cannot. I 
tried to put the shortest stem I can, along with a comfortable drop bar but 
it's too much of a reach. As I've gotten older, I've become less tolerant 
to little inconveniences on my bicycles. Rather than fight this, I'll sell 
it, take my lumps and do what I should have done from the onset.

Hopefully someone will see the value in what I'm offering and buy it 
quickly. Feel free to ask other questions, should you have any.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 10:55:45 PM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but is that saddle set at your 
> proper height?  If so, it looks to be an almost perfect fit, to me. 

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[RBW] Re: FS - Shimano BR-600 'Long Reach' Front Caliper Brake - New in Box!

[stoker]

SOLD - sorry for the double post...

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 8:31:49 PM UTC-6, stoker wrote:
>
> Hi All -
>
> I have for sale a *Shimano BR-600 'Long Reach' Front Caliper Brake*. It 
> is New in Box: Never mounted, perfect shape. Top notch hardware! Brake 
> reach is 47mm to 57mm.
> Includes original box and instructions. This is ONLY the front brake.
>
> $40 shipped CONUS. Please RM off-line if interested. PayPal.
>
> Thanks for looking - Bob
>

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[RBW] Re: FS-Joe Appaloosa

[Scott Blouke]

I wonder that on every Riv or iBob'ish bike I see.  It makes it so much 
easier to do a mental comparison of that bike size to mine.  I hope its not 
like asking a lady her age so thanks for being first.
Scott

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 8:55:45 PM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Hope this isn't an inappropriate question, but is that saddle set at your 
> proper height?  If so, it looks to be an almost perfect fit, to me. 

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[RBW] Re: When is a bike old?

[Jock Dewey]

Addison, et. al.:

Yes, indeed, been thinking a lot about that lately myself. Other riders 
comment favorably all the time on my beautiful 'old' bike, even when it was 
'new' in 2004. Like you, I just smile and thank them for their kind 
generosity and sharp eye. And actually, some bits ARE what even I would 
call old -- but also some, quite a few actually, are new as almost 
yesterday.

Someone once wisely advised me that 'there's no need to educate the bus 
driver if you're getting off at the next stop.' But we all like to receive 
the 'thanks' due to a fine compliment.

So here's my pix for the day on that machine.

Cheers!

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 9:36:50 AM UTC-5, Addison wrote:
>
> I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but 
> yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing 
> Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful 
> old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it 
> occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going 
> on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it 
> through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and 
> posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html
>
> Addison Wilhite, M.A. 
>
> Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 
>  
>
> *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*
>
> Educator: Professional Portfolio 
>
> Blogger: Reno Rambler  
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[Tony DeFilippo]

And SOLD.  Thanks for the interest REALLY, thanks for the sale.  I went
on a hunch that the Bomba would sell at this price and went ahead and
committed to buying a local used Jones+ 24" complete bike.  Money hasn't
changed hands on the Jones purchase yet but it appears to be solid.

Now Saturday won't be as awkward with me adding a bike to the garage.  I'm
sad to see the Bomba go but mostly grateful for the unbelievable
introduction to singletrack riding it gave me.

Tony


On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 6:08 AM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:

> SALE!!!  One of my target bikes came up at a tempting price, so long as
> it's available I'm motivated for a quick sale.
>
> F/F/HS/BB - $1,100 to me... You pay the shipping.
>
> Also happy to talk components.
>
> Help me out this morning and we could both be very happy! :)
>
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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[eflayer]

There was a bike shop in the Northwest that had a batch of Ps painted in 
their own color. Those blues ones were killer.

Matthew Grimm was a character for our times.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 6:22:41 AM UTC-8, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> Saw an ebay listing for a 62cm Kogswell P and the ad copy stated it was an 
> exact copy of the Rambouillet geometry. IIRC, the P was only made briefly, 
> used lugs and HT tubes out of Taiwan.  Does anyone know if was in fact a 
> close relative or truly an exact copy? 
>
> Hard to believe, but the Ram took a "nap" about 10 years ago now and still 
> hasn't woken up :)  I saw an Orange 55 CM frame here on the list this week 
> and ALMOST bought it. It is truly a big too big though, even if I built it 
> as a 650B. I hope someone who will enjoy its ride gets it and builds it up. 
>

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[RBW] When is a bike old?

[Addison Wilhite]

I've had people assume my Riv is an "old" bike for a long time now but
yesterday when I was riding home I stopped to take a photo of the rushing
Truckee River in Reno and a gent paused to compliment me on my "beautiful
old bike."  I just said thanks and didn't correct him.  And then it
occurred to me that I shouldn't correct him because my Allrounder is going
on 18 years of age.  Many miles but it looks sharp...I've taken care of it
through commutes and offroading and tours.  Anyway, just ruminating...and
posting a couple pics.  Happy Monday!

http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2017/02/when-is-bike-old.html

Addison Wilhite, M.A.

Academy of Arts, Careers and Technology 

*“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”*

Educator: Professional Portfolio 

Blogger: Reno Rambler 

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[RBW] Re: FS - NIB Shimano BR-600 Front Caliper Brake 47-57mm Reach

[eflayer]

personal message sent.

On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 7:16:53 PM UTC-8, stoker wrote:
>
> Hi All -
>
> I have a Shimano BR-600 'Long Reach' front caliper brake. The reach is 
> 47-57mm. The brake has top notch hardware, it has never been mounted/used. 
> Please note it is the FRONT BRAKE ONLY. The brake will come 'new in box' 
> with install instructions as pictured.
>
> Please PM off list if interested. $40 shipped CONUS. PayPal preferred.
>
> Thanks for looking!
>

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[RBW] Re: Kogswell P vs. Rambouillet

[Belopsky]

Those were lovely frames. I could not afford them at the time. I'm sure 
production costs increased but if those were offered again, at those 
prices, they'd sell really well.

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[RBW] Re: FS - 56cm Bombadil - 650B Goldilocks Bike!

[Tony DeFilippo]

SALE!!!  One of my target bikes came up at a tempting price, so long as it's 
available I'm motivated for a quick sale. 

F/F/HS/BB - $1,100 to me... You pay the shipping.  

Also happy to talk components. 

Help me out this morning and we could both be very happy! :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: New tires, perhaps?

[Garth]

Leah as I mentioned above you can get your exact same tire you had before, the 
Conti Tour Ride 42-584 27.5 x 1.5 
While this is just one retailer, they do at least have them in stock. This, 
assuming a self install. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0035Y3HP8/ref=twister_dp_update?_encoding=UTF8=1

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