[RBW] Re: For Sale Feelers: 2001 Riv Road, Joe/Joe, 52 cm

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Mark, did you get any nibbles on this bike? It's looks fantastic. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Saturday, May 20, 2017 at 6:32:11 PM UTC-4, Mark R. wrote:
>
> I thought I would post this to see if there is interest, it mostly sits in 
> my spare bedroom.  I like to look at it, since 2014 I think I rode it 
> twice.  Great bike, here are the details:
>
> ordered in 2001, built,  painted in 2001 by Joe Starck and Joe Bell. 
> Sovereign Blue.  Grant designed this for me as a road bike, to take tires 
> 700 by 27 to 35 with short reach brakes.  I usually have 28s on it, once 
> rode it with 32's.  Never ridden in rain, never fendered.  Babied, loved, 
> and tucked in at night :0).
>
> Never crashed, one or two minor chips touched up, biggest visual is that 
> there are rub marks from bar con/ergo cables when I had it set up that way.
>
> -Reynolds 753 main tubes, 531 forks, 725 rear triangle
> -130 rear spacing
> -tt 54 equivalent, seat tube 52, 72.5 parallel angles, bb drop 80, 
> Chainstay 43, top tube slope 1.5 degrees
> -framesavered when new, and each time between rebuilds (I have had 
> different parts on it from time to time)
> -currently a mix of Dura Ace (7800 derailluers, 7700 downtube shifters, 
> which are new, 7402 brakes and levers), with an R700 crank with 7900 bottom 
> bracket, 3 ttt bars/stem, wheels are ultegra rear hub laced to Specialized 
> Saturae rim, front is Specialized hub to same, 36 holes (not the wheels in 
> the pic).  King headset, Crystal fellow seat post
>
> If I sell the frame/fork/chris king headset/silca painted pump with campy 
> head, $1280 shipped in CONUS  (bike flights)
>
> Full bike (minus saddle, pedals, bottle cages) 2300 shipped in CONUS (bike 
> flights)
>
> Ping me off list if interested.  The pics show different builds, top 
> picture is current
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Rosenberg
> SDCA 
>

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[RBW] 60cm Cheviot Owner Questions: Which Hitch-mounted Bike Racks Work & Largest Tire Width With Fenders

[John Stowe]

Howard,

Can you describe the clearance problem you had in more detail? I have been 
contemplating the same Zeppelin/Snoqualmie combination for my Sam Hillborne, 
which currently has R559s.

Thanks!

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[RBW] FS: Schwalbe Marathon Supremes 700 x 32

[GSE]

2 Schwalbe Marathon Supreme 700 x 32 tires for sale.  The tires are in 
nearly new condition.  Have less than 50 miles of use.  Asking $75.00 
shipped in the lower 48, of the pair.  These are the folding model.

PM me offline if interested.

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Re: [RBW] FS: 650b tires. Schwalbe/ Compass

[Mike Williams]

Hey Zach,  switchbacks are sold.-Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 23, 2017, at 4:39 PM, Zach Duval  wrote:
> 
> Any chance those Switchback Hills are still available?
> 
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Re: [RBW] FS-Nigel Smythe Trunk Bag

[Marc Nolte]

Let me know if you come to an arrangement. I've the same bag at my house. 
Purchased but not mounted. NOS ca 2007. 

I don't want to flood the market. 

Marc in Calgary

> On May 23, 2017, at 9:25  don't AM, Peter H  
> wrote:
> 
> Update: I should have mentioned it's the large style trunk bag, dimensions 
> are 13" long x 5 3/4" wide x 6 1/2" tall
> 
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[RBW] Re: 650b, fenders and a Bob Yak

[Call Me Jay]

Cool.  Thanks.  I measured earlier and it seemed like it would be fine but 
Bob's website is vague about how things play with a fully fendered 650b 
bike.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:27:00 PM UTC-4, Orc wrote:
>
> The older bob yak (16" wheel) clears a Pari-Moto + fender with enough 
> clearance that I've never bothered to measure.  The modern yak says 360mm 
> clearance on the fork, which should be enough for up to a 50mm tire + 
> fender, but you should measure your machine nevertheless.
>
> -david parsons
>
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 6:02:19 PM UTC-7, Call Me Jay wrote:
>>
>> Will the standard size Bob Yak trailer fit a 650b Homer with fenders or 
>> do I need the bigger Yak 28?  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 650b, fenders and a Bob Yak

[Orc]

The older bob yak (16" wheel) clears a Pari-Moto + fender with enough 
clearance that I've never bothered to measure.  The modern yak says 360mm 
clearance on the fork, which should be enough for up to a 50mm tire + 
fender, but you should measure your machine nevertheless.

-david parsons

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 6:02:19 PM UTC-7, Call Me Jay wrote:
>
> Will the standard size Bob Yak trailer fit a 650b Homer with fenders or do 
> I need the bigger Yak 28?  
>

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[RBW] Re: Even a riv (design) can wobble

[ted]

Well claiming "won't ever" may be going too far, but my Gios has never even 
hinted at shimmy and I have ridden it no hands and bolt upright or leaning 
back to stretch many many times. That said, its handling is very very quick 
(great crit bike). If your balance and smooth spin aren't good you won't 
ride it no hands at all. I suspect it won't ever shimmy cause it would just 
keep going one way if it started (and wasn't stopped by rider response), 
therefore being incapable of oscillating.
 
My ill founded theory is, any bike that's neither twitchy nor dreadfully 
sluggish can be induced to shimmy.


On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 2:56:40 PM UTC-7, Nash Taylor wrote:
>
> Sounds like the way you were riding it.  Does a bike exist that won't ever 
> shimmy when someone rides no handed and leaning back?  
>
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 7:42:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce K Jamison wrote:
>>
>> My SOMA San Marcos 59cm has been a great bike.  At the end of a long ride 
>> where I was admittedly tired and not riding in the best fashion (no hands, 
>> leaning way back in the saddle), the bike got the dreaded wobble.   It went 
>> away quickly.  I went over the bike checking the usual suspects, and am 
>> happy to say everything is fine again.   But I was really surprised that it 
>> happened at all.   The San Marcos is so stable and it’s even a 2X top tube 
>> model.I guess it’s only human….  
>>
>>

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[RBW] Hubbuh Racks

[Daniel Jackson]

Those who have received your Hubbuhs:

I vaguely recall Grant mentioning that rack adapters were being made for 
the Hubbuh that allow the Nitto racks Riv sells to be used on the frames. 
Any word on this? I'm hoping to setup a big back rack on the Hubbuh...

Thanks,
Daniel in VT, patiently awaiting his Hubbuh.  

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[RBW] 650b, fenders and a Bob Yak

[Call Me Jay]

Will the standard size Bob Yak trailer fit a 650b Homer with fenders or do 
I need the bigger Yak 28?  

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[RBW] FS: 650b tires. Schwalbe/ Compass

[Zach Duval]

Any chance those Switchback Hills are still available?

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[RBW] Re: 60cm bombadil frameset 600 usd + shipping

[Sky Coulter]

Sale pending...Thanks to the many listers who expressed an interestsky

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 5:30:34 PM UTC-7, Sky Coulter wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> I've got to start getting rid of some of the bikes and frames I have 
> laying about. First up is a dark dark green 60cm bombadil frameset with the 
> two parallel toptube design. It's got lots of scratches and scrapes. Has 
> been touched up multiple times and it wouldn't hurt to repaint it 
> altogether. But no dents or cracks.
>
> Please reply off list.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sky in new west
>

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[RBW] Some bags FS

[Joe Bernard]

I have way too many bags for my current 'less bikes' situation. All prices 
shipped CONUS, PM for pics. 

Olive Carradice, has side pockets and a longflap, vg condition, don't know 
model, $85

Sackville Bar Tube brown, vg condition, $55

Olive Sackville small/front Trunksack, beausaged but not ratty, $50 

Tannish Brand V bar bag for drops, don't remember model name, no longer made, 
beausaged but not ratty, $50

PM, or text 415 seven eight six 46 two three.

Thanks!
Joe Bernard
Vallejo, CA. 

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[RBW] Re: 60cm Cheviot Owner Questions: Which Hitch-mounted Bike Racks Work & Largest Tire Width With Fenders

[Clayton.sf]

it works well with my 1up rack.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:05:39 PM UTC-7, tc wrote:
>
> The 60cm Cheviot has a 48" (122cm) wheelbase, as confirmed by Vince at 
> Rivendell today.  Right on, LeahFoy, thank you!
>

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[RBW] Re: Even a riv (design) can wobble

[Nash Taylor]

Sounds like the way you were riding it.  Does a bike exist that won't ever 
shimmy when someone rides no handed and leaning back?  

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 7:42:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce K Jamison wrote:
>
> My SOMA San Marcos 59cm has been a great bike.  At the end of a long ride 
> where I was admittedly tired and not riding in the best fashion (no hands, 
> leaning way back in the saddle), the bike got the dreaded wobble.   It went 
> away quickly.  I went over the bike checking the usual suspects, and am 
> happy to say everything is fine again.   But I was really surprised that it 
> happened at all.   The San Marcos is so stable and it’s even a 2X top tube 
> model.I guess it’s only human….  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Brewster Fong]

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 2:10:23 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> IMHO, Steelman priced himself out of the market. Nice frames that suddenly 
> rocketed into the stratosphere in price while remaining pretty much the 
> same.
>

I believe steelman's prices were similar to Sachs and Vanilla. The 
difference is they have excellent marketing and he didn't. Same goes for 
BG, his prices were the same and quality equal or better than the others, 
but his marketing isn't anywhere near what Sachs and Vanilla developed. 



> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On May 23, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Brewster Fong  
> wrote:
>
> The boutique custom steel framebuilding business isn't easy. I understand 
> that one of the best, Mark DiNucci gets about $5500 for his framesets but 
> he doesn't have a big wait list. The two steel framebuilders who supposedly 
> have 5+ year wait list and can command top dollar for their framesets, 
> i.e., $5500+ per frameset are Richard Sachs and Sasha White/Vanilla. 
>
> Others like Dave Kirk and Dave Wages/Ellis Cycles don't have as long a 
> waitlist, but are getting about $4000/frameset.  Still are others like 
> Rivendell, who I believe contracts with Mark Nobilette (sp?), and Waterford 
> and they get about $3500+ per frameset.
>
> BG is old school and his framesets go for top dollar too. I just don't 
> think he has much business. Framebuilding is a tough business. Ask Brent 
> Steelman. He was asking $5000+ for his framesets and is now completely out 
> of the business, choosing to sell imported rugs instead and I understand 
> he's doing very well. 
>
> Good Luck! 
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Eric Norris]

IMHO, Steelman priced himself out of the market. Nice frames that suddenly 
rocketed into the stratosphere in price while remaining pretty much the same.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On May 23, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Brewster Fong  wrote:
> 
> The boutique custom steel framebuilding business isn't easy. I understand 
> that one of the best, Mark DiNucci gets about $5500 for his framesets but he 
> doesn't have a big wait list. The two steel framebuilders who supposedly have 
> 5+ year wait list and can command top dollar for their framesets, i.e., 
> $5500+ per frameset are Richard Sachs and Sasha White/Vanilla. 
> 
> Others like Dave Kirk and Dave Wages/Ellis Cycles don't have as long a 
> waitlist, but are getting about $4000/frameset.  Still are others like 
> Rivendell, who I believe contracts with Mark Nobilette (sp?), and Waterford 
> and they get about $3500+ per frameset.
> 
> BG is old school and his framesets go for top dollar too. I just don't think 
> he has much business. Framebuilding is a tough business. Ask Brent Steelman. 
> He was asking $5000+ for his framesets and is now completely out of the 
> business, choosing to sell imported rugs instead and I understand he's doing 
> very well. 
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Brewster Fong]

The boutique custom steel framebuilding business isn't easy. I understand 
that one of the best, Mark DiNucci gets about $5500 for his framesets but 
he doesn't have a big wait list. The two steel framebuilders who supposedly 
have 5+ year wait list and can command top dollar for their framesets, 
i.e., $5500+ per frameset are Richard Sachs and Sasha White/Vanilla. 

Others like Dave Kirk and Dave Wages/Ellis Cycles don't have as long a 
waitlist, but are getting about $4000/frameset.  Still are others like 
Rivendell, who I believe contracts with Mark Nobilette (sp?), and Waterford 
and they get about $3500+ per frameset.

BG is old school and his framesets go for top dollar too. I just don't 
think he has much business. Framebuilding is a tough business. Ask Brent 
Steelman. He was asking $5000+ for his framesets and is now completely out 
of the business, choosing to sell imported rugs instead and I understand 
he's doing very well. 

Good Luck! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[sameness]

Any way he'd just help design some frames, give 'em the Pope's blessing for 
an annual plus per-unit licensing agreement, then allow someone else to 
foot the startup costs and job 'em out to Toyo or Maxway? 

Keep the name alive, keep the frames coming, keep a regular income, and 
keep his skin out of the game.

I own a Hikari with BG on the head tube, and/but the bike is no worse off 
for his having never put a torch to it.

Dunno.

Jeff "Never Met Him" Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Joe Bernard]

I don't think anybody is making a killing building frames. If you were smart 
and lucky and didn't get hosed by business partners, you became Ritchey Logic. 
BG never reached that level of mass market penetration, and now just wants to 
unload his shop and sell some tires. I hope it works out for him, but I don't 
see the buyer coming from someone else's GoFundMe campaign. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: 60cm bombadil frameset 600 usd + shipping

[S. Greco]

Is this still available? Can i call dibs? 

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 9:16:23 PM UTC-4, Sky Coulter wrote:
>
> Hi Steven.  
>
> Its 700c and fits a 55mm without and a 50mm with.  I'm pretty sure it can 
> fit bigger than that, given i had it setup with 63mm fenders, but didn't 
> run anything that big so don't wanna say.
>
> Saddle is at 77cm height.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sky 
>
> On May 22, 2017, at 6:08 PM, Steven Sweedler  > wrote:
>
> Sky, is it 650B or 700, how wide a tire with or without fenders, what is 
> the crank bolt to top of saddle height in your picture. thanks, Steve
>
> On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 8:54 PM Sky Coulter  > wrote:
>
>> And a pic of it in better lighting built up:
>>
>>
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/140959259@N03/32640008764/in/dateposted-public/
>>
>> Sky in new west
>>
>>
>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 5:30:34 PM UTC-7, Sky Coulter wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> I've got to start getting rid of some of the bikes and frames I have 
>>> laying about. First up is a dark dark green 60cm bombadil frameset with the 
>>> two parallel toptube design. It's got lots of scratches and scrapes. Has 
>>> been touched up multiple times and it wouldn't hurt to repaint it 
>>> altogether. But no dents or cracks.
>>>
>>> Please reply off list.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Sky in new west
>>>
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> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
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[RBW] Staem Cleaning and Rando Bars

[Clifton Long]

Does anyone steam clean their bike?  All the muddy dirt roads here gunk up 
my chain and it's so time consuming to clean it.  I'm wondering if I can 
use the steam cleaner I have, a household, low pressure model. for that as 
well as components, rims etc.  Will the tires and paint spand 212 degrees?
I notice that most rando bars , because of their flare, are narrow on top.  
Is this just a feature of the flare or is the hand position somehow better 
suited to a narrower bar?

Thanks!
Clifton

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[RBW] Re: 60cm Cheviot Owner Questions: Which Hitch-mounted Bike Racks Work & Largest Tire Width With Fenders

[tc]

The 60cm Cheviot has a 48" (122cm) wheelbase, as confirmed by Vince at 
Rivendell today.  Right on, LeahFoy, thank you!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Evan Baird]

I don't believe that is the case. Knowing how much his tires cost to make 
there's no way he's going to retire on that alone.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Orc]

Does anyone make a /good/ living framebuilding, or is it just that some 
framebuilders can do a good job of pretending that they're living lives of 
opulent excess while actually bailing like mad to keep ahead of the 
constant inflow of one expense after another?

Shoot, Riv itself seems like a much bigger and more stable business than 
BG, but every now and then Grant still posts a "ohmygodwe'redrowninghere" 
article on the Riv weblog.

-david parsons

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 12:04:24 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Vincent van Gogh committed suicide after years of mental illness and 
> poverty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh).
>
> Bruce has made (I would hope) a good living producing bikes for other 
> people. He owns some now that he can sell, but he might have an inflated 
> idea of their value. I hope he was setting aside something over the years 
> in a 401k to cover his retirement.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On May 23, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Orc  
> wrote:
>
> It would be nicer if they were donated, yes, but I can imagine why BG 
> would be somewhat annoyed after coming to the realization that spending 
> most of his life as a (really good) framebuilder and $2.50 is worth a cup 
> of drip coffee at Starbucks.
>
> -david parsons
>
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:21:45 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> If he can’t sell the bikes, he should consider donating them. There are 
>> probably a few tall people out there in need of transportation who could 
>> use a serviceable bicycle. Much better than having them scrapped.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>>
>> On May 23, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Evan Baird  wrote:
>>
>> We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to 
>> use. If you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I 
>> encourage you to send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you 
>> think Bruce is messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't 
>> actually know him very well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, 
>> so if nobody wants them badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly 
>> don't care what happens as long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is 
>> respect, dignity and a comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would 
>> say it's a bargain.
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>>>
>>> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
>>>
>>> Evan, 
>>>
>>> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough 
>>> $ to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
>>> minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
>>> has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that 
>>> once he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a 
>>> "museum" with his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your 
>>> master builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see 
>>> his collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
>>>
>>> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection 
>>> instead of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's 
>>> irrational -- if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else 
>>> to sell it for him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of 
>>> support/guidance will he provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a 
>>> BG-less BG Cycles? 
>>>
>>> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in 
>>> getting the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
>>> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of 
>>> drive. If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the 
>>> funds raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an 
>>> escrow service? 
>>>
>>> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into 
>>> the laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
>>> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
>>> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
>>>
>>> Julian Westerhout
>>> Bloomington, Il
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:

 Cross Post from BOB




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[RBW] FS: 700c XT/DT Wheelset

[Clayton.sf]

Hi All,

Have a wheelset for sale:

Front (100) and rear (135) XT hubs (T780, rim brake) silver 36h laced to DT 
Swiss TK540 black with silver DT Double Butted spokes with brass nipples 
and washers. 3x front and rear. 
Comes with original Skewers. 

Wheels are in good shape with plenty of life left and no damage other than 
some brake-track wear. 

$200 shipped to CONUS or local pickup. If I ship it will likely take me a 
few days to source the box. 

Best,
Clayton Scott
SF, CA

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[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Johnny Alien]

I agree.  $250,000 is actually a large amount of money for this business as 
it is. If it was "chump change" he would have gotten an offer by now.  But 
he wants to hold on to the most profitable and easy to take over portion 
which is the tires.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Eric Norris]

Vincent van Gogh committed suicide after years of mental illness and poverty 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_van_Gogh 
).

Bruce has made (I would hope) a good living producing bikes for other people. 
He owns some now that he can sell, but he might have an inflated idea of their 
value. I hope he was setting aside something over the years in a 401k to cover 
his retirement.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On May 23, 2017, at 11:44 AM, Orc  wrote:
> 
> It would be nicer if they were donated, yes, but I can imagine why BG would 
> be somewhat annoyed after coming to the realization that spending most of his 
> life as a (really good) framebuilder and $2.50 is worth a cup of drip coffee 
> at Starbucks.
> 
> -david parsons
> 
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:21:45 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
> If he can’t sell the bikes, he should consider donating them. There are 
> probably a few tall people out there in need of transportation who could use 
> a serviceable bicycle. Much better than having them scrapped.
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
> 
>> On May 23, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Evan Baird  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to use. 
>> If you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I encourage 
>> you to send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you think Bruce 
>> is messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't actually know him 
>> very well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, so if nobody wants 
>> them badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly don't care what happens 
>> as long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is respect, dignity and a 
>> comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would say it's a bargain.
>> 
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
>> 
>> Evan, 
>> 
>> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough $ 
>> to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
>> minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
>> has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that once 
>> he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a "museum" with 
>> his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your master 
>> builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see his 
>> collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
>> 
>> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection instead 
>> of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's irrational -- 
>> if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else to sell it for 
>> him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of support/guidance will he 
>> provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a BG-less BG Cycles? 
>> 
>> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in getting 
>> the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
>> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of drive. 
>> If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the funds 
>> raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an escrow 
>> service? 
>> 
>> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into the 
>> laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
>> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
>> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
>> 
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, Il
>> 
>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>> Cross Post from BOB
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 

[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Evan Baird]

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:50:51 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>
> Evan, 
>
> If you " honestly don't care what happens as long as Bruce gets what he 
> deserves" then this endeavor is really pointless. You seem to think a 
> quarter million dollars is chump change. Having been on the board of 
> several established not-for-profits (not bike related) I can tell you 
> raising that sort of money unless you have some sort of real draw is not 
> easy.  
>
> Your effort, such as it is (seems limited to a quick GoFundMe page), does 
> not even consider how you'll keep this going even if you should raise the 
> funds. I admire the desire, but this sort of seat-of-the-pants approach is 
> ill advised, IMHO. 
>
> FWIW, BG saying he'll tell anyone who doesn't have $250k to f-off is part 
> of the problem. 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
>  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>>
>> We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to 
>> use. If you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I 
>> encourage you to send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you 
>> think Bruce is messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't 
>> actually know him very well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, 
>> so if nobody wants them badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly 
>> don't care what happens as long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is 
>> respect, dignity and a comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would 
>> say it's a bargain.
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>>>
>>> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
>>>
>>> Evan, 
>>>
>>> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough 
>>> $ to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
>>> minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
>>> has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that 
>>> once he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a 
>>> "museum" with his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your 
>>> master builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see 
>>> his collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
>>>
>>> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection 
>>> instead of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's 
>>> irrational -- if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else 
>>> to sell it for him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of 
>>> support/guidance will he provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a 
>>> BG-less BG Cycles? 
>>>
>>> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in 
>>> getting the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
>>> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of 
>>> drive. If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the 
>>> funds raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an 
>>> escrow service? 
>>>
>>> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into 
>>> the laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
>>> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
>>> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
>>>
>>> Julian Westerhout
>>> Bloomington, Il
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:

 Cross Post from BOB





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[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Julian Westerhout]

Evan, 

If you " honestly don't care what happens as long as Bruce gets what he 
deserves" then this endeavor is really pointless. You seem to think a 
quarter million dollars is chump change. Having been on the board of 
several established not-for-profits (not bike related) I can tell you 
raising that sort of money unless you have some sort of real draw is not 
easy.  

Your effort, such as it is (seems limited to a quick GoFundMe page), does 
not even consider how you'll keep this going even if you should raise the 
funds. I admire the desire, but this sort of seat-of-the-pants approach is 
ill advised, IMHO. 

FWIW, BG saying he'll tell anyone who doesn't have $250k to f-off is part 
of the problem. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il
 



On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 1:19:09 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to use. 
> If you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I encourage 
> you to send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you think Bruce 
> is messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't actually know him 
> very well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, so if nobody 
> wants them badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly don't care what 
> happens as long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is respect, dignity 
> and a comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would say it's a 
> bargain.
>
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>>
>> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
>>
>> Evan, 
>>
>> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough 
>> $ to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
>> minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
>> has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that 
>> once he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a 
>> "museum" with his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your 
>> master builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see 
>> his collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
>>
>> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection 
>> instead of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's 
>> irrational -- if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else 
>> to sell it for him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of 
>> support/guidance will he provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a 
>> BG-less BG Cycles? 
>>
>> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in 
>> getting the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
>> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of 
>> drive. If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the 
>> funds raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an 
>> escrow service? 
>>
>> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into 
>> the laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
>> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
>> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, Il
>>
>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> Cross Post from BOB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Orc]

It would be nicer if they were donated, yes, but I can imagine why BG would 
be somewhat annoyed after coming to the realization that spending most of 
his life as a (really good) framebuilder and $2.50 is worth a cup of drip 
coffee at Starbucks.

-david parsons

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 11:21:45 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> If he can’t sell the bikes, he should consider donating them. There are 
> probably a few tall people out there in need of transportation who could 
> use a serviceable bicycle. Much better than having them scrapped.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On May 23, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Evan Baird  
> wrote:
>
> We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to use. 
> If you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I encourage 
> you to send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you think Bruce 
> is messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't actually know him 
> very well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, so if nobody 
> wants them badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly don't care what 
> happens as long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is respect, dignity 
> and a comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would say it's a 
> bargain.
>
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>>
>> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
>>
>> Evan, 
>>
>> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough 
>> $ to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
>> minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
>> has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that 
>> once he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a 
>> "museum" with his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your 
>> master builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see 
>> his collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
>>
>> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection 
>> instead of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's 
>> irrational -- if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else 
>> to sell it for him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of 
>> support/guidance will he provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a 
>> BG-less BG Cycles? 
>>
>> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in 
>> getting the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
>> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of 
>> drive. If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the 
>> funds raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an 
>> escrow service? 
>>
>> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into 
>> the laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
>> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
>> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, Il
>>
>> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> Cross Post from BOB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Evan Baird]

Trust me, we've been over all the options. If you think you have a better 
rapport with him than I do be my guest.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Eric Norris]

If he can’t sell the bikes, he should consider donating them. There are 
probably a few tall people out there in need of transportation who could use a 
serviceable bicycle. Much better than having them scrapped.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On May 23, 2017, at 11:19 AM, Evan Baird  wrote:
> 
> We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to use. If 
> you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I encourage you to 
> send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you think Bruce is 
> messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't actually know him very 
> well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, so if nobody wants them 
> badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly don't care what happens as 
> long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is respect, dignity and a 
> comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would say it's a bargain.
> 
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
> 
> Evan, 
> 
> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough $ to 
> buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively minimal 
> value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He has been 
> struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that once he is 
> gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a "museum" with his 
> name on it but with no other connection? Who are your master 
> builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see his 
> collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
> 
> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection instead of 
> sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's irrational -- if 
> he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else to sell it for him. 
> If he cannot even manage that what sort of support/guidance will he provide 
> as you attempt to succeed at pushing a BG-less BG Cycles? 
> 
> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in getting 
> the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of drive. 
> If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the funds raised? 
> Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an escrow service? 
> 
> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into the 
> laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
> 
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
> 
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
> Cross Post from BOB
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Evan Baird]

We've got a group of people together to discuss the best framework to use. 
If you have experience setting up a nonprofit, coop or b corp I encourage 
you to send me your email and I'll add you to the group. If you think Bruce 
is messing around maybe you're right, or maybe you don't actually know him 
very well. The way he put it to me is he can't ride them, so if nobody 
wants them badly enough to pay up then fuck it. I honestly don't care what 
happens as long as Bruce gets what he deserves, which is respect, dignity 
and a comfortable retirement. If you have 250,000 I would say it's a 
bargain.

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 9:37:16 AM UTC-7, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>
> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
>
> Evan, 
>
> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough $ 
> to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
> minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
> has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that 
> once he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a 
> "museum" with his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your 
> master builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see 
> his collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
>
> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection instead 
> of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's irrational 
> -- if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else to sell it 
> for him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of support/guidance will 
> he provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a BG-less BG Cycles? 
>
> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in 
> getting the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of 
> drive. If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the 
> funds raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an 
> escrow service? 
>
> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into 
> the laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
>
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>>
>> Cross Post from BOB
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Eric Norris]

Ah … the “greater fool” theory: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory 
 

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On May 23, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Orc  wrote:
> 
> More hassle than throwing them into a dumpster.   I suspect that what BG 
> wants is for one of the more-money-than-god-less-sense-than-a-cat .com 
> billionaires that infest the bay area to throw down some pocket change, then 
> show up with a moving truck and get the things out of his hair.   And they 
> won't do that unless they think that it's a rare & valuable collection that 
> they're getting at a steal from an eccentric genius.   Which it is.  And he 
> is.  And maybe it's a steal.   It's not much more than a Tesla, and I'd say 
> they've got more value for money than it would have.
> 
> 
> -david parsons
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:28:32 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
> He’s going to take a potentially valuable bicycle collection to the recycler 
> for scrap? That strikes me as either monumentally stupid or something done in 
> a fit of pique. What’s wrong with selling them?
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
> 
>> On May 22, 2017, at 8:40 PM, Evan Baird  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Cross Post from BOB
>> 
>> Hey Everybody. I spoke with Bruce Gordon again this afternoon and he still 
>> hasn't found a buyer for his shop. My partner Norma and I decided that we 
>> want to try to raise the money to turn BG Cycles into a frame building 
>> school and bike touring museum and open it to the public. I think what Bruce 
>> is asking is an insanely low amount of one of the most respected names in 
>> custom bicycles and I think that he deserves a comfortable retirement after 
>> everything he's done for the American Bike Industry. If you can't support us 
>> directly please help us spread the word about our crowdfunding campaign. We 
>> have about a month to pull this off, after which Bruce told me he's just 
>> going to take his bicycle collection to the recyclers and scrap the lot. I 
>> really believe he intends to do that, and I would break my heart to see such 
>> beautiful and historical bikes get destroyed.
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.gofundme.com/save-bruce-gordon-cycles 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Orc]

More hassle than throwing them into a dumpster.   I suspect that what BG 
wants is for one of the more-money-than-god-less-sense-than-a-cat .com 
billionaires that infest the bay area to throw down some pocket change, 
then show up with a moving truck and get the things out of his hair.   And 
they won't do that unless they think that it's a rare & valuable collection 
that they're getting at a steal from an eccentric genius.   Which it is. 
 And he is.  And maybe it's a steal.   It's not much more than a Tesla, and 
I'd say they've got more value for money than it would have.


-david parsons


On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:28:32 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> He’s going to take a potentially valuable bicycle collection to the 
> recycler for scrap? That strikes me as either monumentally stupid or 
> something done in a fit of pique. What’s wrong with selling them?
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On May 22, 2017, at 8:40 PM, Evan Baird  
> wrote:
>
> Cross Post from BOB
>
> Hey Everybody. I spoke with Bruce Gordon again this afternoon and he still 
> hasn't found a buyer for his shop. My partner Norma and I decided that we 
> want to try to raise the money to turn BG Cycles into a frame building 
> school and bike touring museum and open it to the public. I think what 
> Bruce is asking is an insanely low amount of one of the most respected 
> names in custom bicycles and I think that he deserves a comfortable 
> retirement after everything he's done for the American Bike Industry. If 
> you can't support us directly please help us spread the word about our 
> crowdfunding campaign. We have about a month to pull this off, after which 
> Bruce told me he's just going to take his bicycle collection to the 
> recyclers and scrap the lot. I really believe he intends to do that, and I 
> would break my heart to see such beautiful and historical bikes get 
> destroyed.
>
>
> https://www.gofundme.com/save-bruce-gordon-cycles
>
>
> 
>
>
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>
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[RBW] Re: Even a riv (design) can wobble

[Ryan Fleming]

When did it go away? After you stopped riding no hands?

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 9:42:46 PM UTC-5, Bruce K Jamison wrote:
>
> My SOMA San Marcos 59cm has been a great bike.  At the end of a long ride 
> where I was admittedly tired and not riding in the best fashion (no hands, 
> leaning way back in the saddle), the bike got the dreaded wobble.   It went 
> away quickly.  I went over the bike checking the usual suspects, and am 
> happy to say everything is fine again.   But I was really surprised that it 
> happened at all.   The San Marcos is so stable and it’s even a 2X top tube 
> model.I guess it’s only human….  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto S84 27.2 x 250mm Lugged Seatpost

[GSE]

The seat post is sold.

On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 3:27:02 PM UTC-5, GSE wrote:
>
> I am selling a Nitto S-84 lugged steel seat post.  Pictures attached.  It 
> is 27.2 x 250 mm.  Asking $85.00 shipped to lower 48.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Eric Norris]

Thanks to Julian for asking some important questions. As good a framebuilder as 
he is, I wonder how many people will travel to Petaluma to see his workshop who 
aren’t already going to the US Bicycle Hall of Fame museum in Davis? Call 
Richard Sachs and ask him how many people show up at his doorstep to watch the 
*real* Richard Sachs actually building frames.

It would probably be helpful to look at the experience of Jan Heine, who bought 
the rights to the Rene Herse name and is building Herself bicycles. That’s the 
only example of which I’m aware (other than, say, Schwinn) in which a former 
builder’s name is being used by a different builder … and Herse is arguably a 
better-known name worldwide.

This whole thing needs a strong and level-headed business plan before people 
start handing over potentially non-refundable money.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On May 23, 2017, at 9:37 AM, Julian Westerhout  wrote:
> 
> My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 
> 
> Evan, 
> 
> Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough $ to 
> buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively minimal 
> value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He has been 
> struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that once he is 
> gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a "museum" with his 
> name on it but with no other connection? Who are your master 
> builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see his 
> collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 
> 
> Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection instead of 
> sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's irrational -- if 
> he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else to sell it for him. 
> If he cannot even manage that what sort of support/guidance will he provide 
> as you attempt to succeed at pushing a BG-less BG Cycles? 
> 
> What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in getting 
> the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
> withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of drive. 
> If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the funds raised? 
> Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an escrow service? 
> 
> As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into the 
> laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
> structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
> your plans and what you've developed so far. 
> 
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
> 
> On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
> Cross Post from BOB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Even a riv (design) can wobble

[Patrick Moore]

Do you mean "shimmy", where just riding along, the front end will start a
rapid, high frequency well, wobble? As opposed to the lower frequency
wobble you get say from a bent rim?

If it's shimmy, then IME all sorts of imponderable little things can cause
it. I've had shimmy come, or go, after swapping tires; after putting on a
front load; after adjusting saddle and bar. I'm not saying that these
changes caused the appearance or disappearance of shimmy, just that it
occurred or went away with such little changes.

Right now, knock on wood, the '2003 Curt road custom doesn't shimmy; it did
last year in straight lines starting at about 15 mph, if I took both hands
off the bar. What changed? Well, I put my Chauncey Matthews lowrider racks
back on. And the shimmy started when I swapped 35 mm Kojaks for the Elk
Passes. Or something.

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 3:00 PM, Bruce K Jamison  wrote:

> My SOMA San Marcos 59cm has been a great bike.  At the end of a long ride
> where I was admittedly tired and not riding in the best fashion (no hands,
> leaning way back in the saddle), the bike got the dreaded wobble.   It went
> away quickly.  I went over the bike checking the usual suspects, and am
> happy to say everything is fine again.   But I was really surprised that it
> happened at all.   The San Marcos is so stable and it’s even a 2X top tube
> model.I guess it’s only human….
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Julian Westerhout]

My response to this on the Boblist (for those who don't follow both): 

Evan, 

Do you have an actual business plan beyond hoping others give you enough $ 
to buy his bikes? Aside from his cool bike collection and the relatively 
minimal value of his tools, the value of the business IS Bruce Gordon. He 
has been struggling for the past few years -- what makes you think that 
once he is gone folks will flock to learn how to build bikes from a 
"museum" with his name on it but with no other connection? Who are your 
master builder/instructors? How many people do you imagine would pay to see 
his collection? How much would it cost you to keep the doors open? 

Your claim that he is threatening to recycle all of his collection instead 
of sell it piece by piece is indicative of the problem. That's irrational 
-- if he really was so low energy, he could engage someone else to sell it 
for him. If he cannot even manage that what sort of support/guidance will 
he provide as you attempt to succeed at pushing a BG-less BG Cycles? 

What happens to the $$ you are raising if you are not successful in getting 
the $250,000 you're asking for? You're using GoFundMe, which allows 
withdrawals of any and all monies collected, regardless of success of 
drive. If you don't raise the full amount, will you and Norma keep the 
funds raised? Refund your donors? Donate the funds to BG? Are you using an 
escrow service? 

As you plan on being a museum/educational facility, have you looked into 
the laws associated with doing so? Will you be a 501(C)3? How will you be 
structured? You're making a big ask -- perhaps you'd like to share more on 
your plans and what you've developed so far. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 10:40:21 PM UTC-5, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> Cross Post from BOB
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Deacon Patrick]

Perhaps as a Kickstarter venture rather than a donation?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 9:40:21 PM UTC-6, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> Cross Post from BOB
>
> Hey Everybody. I spoke with Bruce Gordon again this afternoon and he still 
> hasn't found a buyer for his shop. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis! Tire question

[Deacon Patrick]

Not that I noticed, Ed, but I just switched and kept riding happy and 
delighted, so I suppose the most accurate answer is the Racing Ralphs are 
at least as plush as the Thunder Burts as I'd have not kept ridding them if 
they were less plush.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 3:04:23 AM UTC-6, ed wrote:
>
> Hi Deacon,
> Is the Racing Ralphs more plush and smooth compared to Thunder Burts?
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:31 AM, Deacon Patrick  > wrote:
>
>> For a Compass tire-ish like ride (plush and smooth, without built in flat 
>> protection) while having knobbies, Thunder Burts (less aggressive lungs, 
>> slightly better on asphalt) and Racing Ralphs (more aggressive lugs, better 
>> in mud, snow, and loose, a bit noisier on asphalt but still quite smooth) 
>> are excellent options. Racing Ralphs are my Hunqa's tire for coming up on 
>> two years now, after a year with Thunder Burts.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:31:38 PM UTC-6, Birdman wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all, 
>>>
>>> I am beyond thrilled to say that I just put a deposit down on a 64 
>>> Atlantis with a double tt! Now I get to enjoy many months of anticipation 
>>> while fantasizing about bike builds... 
>>>
>>> Speaking of which, I always rode 32mm pasellas on my Quickbeam as well 
>>> as on my current touring bike, because of its relatively narrow crown and 
>>> chain stays. The option of running larger tires on the Atlantis is part of 
>>> its appeal for me, but I don't really know where to begin. 
>>>
>>> Any tire size/brand recommendations for commuting and touring with some 
>>> gravel and dirt roads? I know it all comes down to compromises and personal 
>>> preferences, but where should I start? 
>>>
>>> Thanks. I haven't posted here in many years. It's great to be coming 
>>> back to the RBW Owners Bunch. 
>>>
>>> Isaac
>>
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Re: [RBW] Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Christopher Murray]

He seems like an interesting guy. I highly doubt he's going to recycle his 
bikes- that seems like an idle threat. Why not raffle them off? Sell some 
tickets for $10 or $25. Have a minimum number of tickets you'd need to sell. 
Winners pay shipping. Or how about offering something to commemorate his 
retirement? A picture of him riding off into the sunset on a fully loaded bike? 
If he signed them I think a lot of people would be interested. I think there is 
a lot of potential here to raise enough funds for a comfy retirement. 

Cheers,
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Brewster Fong]

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:28:32 AM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> He’s going to take a potentially valuable bicycle collection to the 
> recycler for scrap? That strikes me as either monumentally stupid or 
> something done in a fit of pique. What’s wrong with selling them?
>

I think the problem is BG expects his bikes to fetch top dollar. I remember 
seeing pictures of his collection 10 years ago and the numerous awards he 
won. But there were a couple of problems with his bikes. First, Bruce is a 
big guy and rides a 61cm or something like that. So that narrows the 
market.  Second, he wants a lot for his bikes. Now, I don't blame him as 
his work is fabulous. But, when you're asking $7k to $10K or more, well the 
market gets really small, especially for steel. Yes, Richard Sachs and 
Sasha White/Vanilla can command $6K/frameset, but they're the exception.   
Here's a few examples of his work:

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fJhGNCfBn0Y/V1r1UbJBUgI/BLY/ivSDccAWoDgydhkjADq6uT2ws30nZkLRQCLcB/s1600/Picture%2B005.jpg

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vuHrbMAltWg/V1r1RdbBHVI/BLI/eqaSdrnpDMwCmOFq22ISj8HQXqkK9YE4QCKgB/s1600/jbl_030407_NAHBS_1084.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JnO-tW2_nB0/S8jQ9Ig0sHI/AIo/DXJWAmlYM-c/s1600/XA7I0020.JPG

Here are some photos of his collection:

http://urbanvelo.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/IMG_0734.jpg

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/sites/default/files/styles/colorbox_popup/public/images/article/Bruce%20Gordon%20Bicycle%20Gallery.jpg?itok=1pcJZ_CX

Good Luck! 



>
>
> On May 22, 2017, at 8:40 PM, Evan Baird  
> wrote:
>
> Cross Post from BOB
>
> Hey Everybody. I spoke with Bruce Gordon again this afternoon and he still 
> hasn't found a buyer for his shop. My partner Norma and I decided that we 
> want to try to raise the money to turn BG Cycles into a frame building 
> school and bike touring museum and open it to the public. I think what 
> Bruce is asking is an insanely low amount of one of the most respected 
> names in custom bicycles and I think that he deserves a comfortable 
> retirement after everything he's done for the American Bike Industry. If 
> you can't support us directly please help us spread the word about our 
> crowdfunding campaign. We have about a month to pull this off, after which 
> Bruce told me he's just going to take his bicycle collection to the 
> recyclers and scrap the lot. I really believe he intends to do that, and I 
> would break my heart to see such beautiful and historical bikes get 
> destroyed.
>
>
> https://www.gofundme.com/save-bruce-gordon-cycles
>
>
> 
>
>
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>
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[RBW] Re: FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar Ends, Sugino Triple

[Johnny Alien]

The thumbies are sold.

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Re: [RBW] Butch Bubbe

[Patrick Moore]

That looks very rideable. I've not kept up with the design details of the
later Riv models, but I thought that the RB, Clems, Appaloosas, and so on
were designed with very long tts and meant to be ridden with swept back
bars. Apparently not. What is the st and tt of this one? (C-c.)

On Mon, May 22, 2017 at 1:49 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> It looks like the rains are over now in California.  I decided to remove
> the fenders from my Rosco Bubbe Road bike, pulled off my 700x35 Compass Bon
> Jon Pass tires, and replaced them with 700x43 Bruce Gordon Rock and Roads.
> Now my Rosco is all butch and ready to monster cross it, when needed.  I
> would characterize the clearances as perfect, without fenders.  I think
> this will be the standard summertime configuration for this bike.  When I
> ran Rock and Roads on my Hillborne, things cleared, but were awfully
> close.  Anyway, enjoy.
>
>
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Eric Norris]

He’s going to take a potentially valuable bicycle collection to the recycler 
for scrap? That strikes me as either monumentally stupid or something done in a 
fit of pique. What’s wrong with selling them?

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On May 22, 2017, at 8:40 PM, Evan Baird  wrote:
> 
> Cross Post from BOB
> 
> Hey Everybody. I spoke with Bruce Gordon again this afternoon and he still 
> hasn't found a buyer for his shop. My partner Norma and I decided that we 
> want to try to raise the money to turn BG Cycles into a frame building school 
> and bike touring museum and open it to the public. I think what Bruce is 
> asking is an insanely low amount of one of the most respected names in custom 
> bicycles and I think that he deserves a comfortable retirement after 
> everything he's done for the American Bike Industry. If you can't support us 
> directly please help us spread the word about our crowdfunding campaign. We 
> have about a month to pull this off, after which Bruce told me he's just 
> going to take his bicycle collection to the recyclers and scrap the lot. I 
> really believe he intends to do that, and I would break my heart to see such 
> beautiful and historical bikes get destroyed.
> 
> 
> https://www.gofundme.com/save-bruce-gordon-cycles 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Save Bruce Gordon Cycles

[Brian Campbell]

Threats as motivation=not so good.

On Monday, May 22, 2017 at 11:40:21 PM UTC-4, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> Cross Post from BOB
>
> Hey Everybody. I spoke with Bruce Gordon again this afternoon and he still 
> hasn't found a buyer for his shop. My partner Norma and I decided that we 
> want to try to raise the money to turn BG Cycles into a frame building 
> school and bike touring museum and open it to the public. I think what 
> Bruce is asking is an insanely low amount of one of the most respected 
> names in custom bicycles and I think that he deserves a comfortable 
> retirement after everything he's done for the American Bike Industry. If 
> you can't support us directly please help us spread the word about our 
> crowdfunding campaign. We have about a month to pull this off, after which 
> Bruce told me he's just going to take his bicycle collection to the 
> recyclers and scrap the lot. I really believe he intends to do that, and I 
> would break my heart to see such beautiful and historical bikes get 
> destroyed.
>
>
> https://www.gofundme.com/save-bruce-gordon-cycles
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] FS-Nigel Smythe Trunk Bag

[Peter H]

Update: I should have mentioned it's the large style trunk bag, dimensions are 
13" long x 5 3/4" wide x 6 1/2" tall

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[RBW] Re: Butch Bubbe

[Brian Campbell]

What does "Butch" mean? Tough, useful or just an overall sense of 
satisfaction? 

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 8:12:43 AM UTC-4, William R. wrote:
>
> What the other Bill said from another Bill!
>
> Bill in Westchester, NY
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis! Tire question

[Patrick Moore]

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 8:51 AM, Jeremy Till 
wrote:"... the goatheads are endemic, so while I can see the appeal of
Compass or Soma suppleness it just doesn't make sense for me. "

Just in case: 175 gram tires with Orange seal are fine on our dirt roads,
and I'll be we have more goatheads than you do.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis! Tire question

[Jeremy Till]

Another plug for Marathon Supremes, especially in the 700x40.  My 
touring-ish bike (Long Haul Trucker) is first and foremost a commuter, and 
my commute involves urban and industrial streets with glass and metal 
debris, and even when I'm on country roads the goatheads are endemic, so 
while I can see the appeal of Compass or Soma suppleness it just doesn't 
make sense for me.  And I actually feel like the Supremes ride better than 
a lot of other Schwalbe tires, certainly the heavier plain Marathons or 
Marathon Plus's.  I even think they ride better than the supposedly lighter 
weight Kojak, but a lot of that is probably down to volume (35 vs. 40mm). 
 Also, reflective sidewalls, which are a big plus for me.  

If you are looking for something slightly more on the supple side but not 
full on Compass wispy, Continental has some sleepers in their tire line. 
 Before switching to the Schwalbes I rode Continental Speed Ride in the 
700x42 flavor and loved them, great ride, fast and decent flat protection. 
 It's kind of a combo cx/street tread so would also be great for gravel 
road exploring without giving up much on the street.  I may go back to them 
once I wear out my current Supremes but judging by their wear rate that may 
be  while.

On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 7:31:38 PM UTC-7, Birdman wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I am beyond thrilled to say that I just put a deposit down on a 64 
> Atlantis with a double tt! Now I get to enjoy many months of anticipation 
> while fantasizing about bike builds... 
>
> Speaking of which, I always rode 32mm pasellas on my Quickbeam as well as 
> on my current touring bike, because of its relatively narrow crown and 
> chain stays. The option of running larger tires on the Atlantis is part of 
> its appeal for me, but I don't really know where to begin. 
>
> Any tire size/brand recommendations for commuting and touring with some 
> gravel and dirt roads? I know it all comes down to compromises and personal 
> preferences, but where should I start? 
>
> Thanks. I haven't posted here in many years. It's great to be coming back 
> to the RBW Owners Bunch. 
>
> Isaac

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Geeter]

Thanks Ed.  I agree that the Hunq is a comfy ride for sure.  I love it.

  My pic is a few replies back from here.  Build is:

XT 1x11
165mm XT cranks
XT hydros with 203/180 rotors
Thomson setback
Loop bars
Selle Anatomica Titanico X
Velocity Dually with Hope Fatsno Evo 4 front and XT rear
Schwalbe Big One 29x2.35

I am debating building a 650b plus wheelset as the Jones will clear a 
27.5x3.  Maybe that one for knobbies


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[RBW] ISO Mountain Bike Brake Levers

[Broccoli Cog]

Could offer a set of MKS Grip King pedals to trade for brake levers is that 
interests anyone.

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[RBW] Re: FS: 61cm AHH...

['PeterG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Update...Hilsen is also soldThank youAll 3 bikes sold now...

On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:32:48 PM UTC-7, Peter Gillis wrote:
>
> I was a rider and on this forum for many years. I suffer from a neuro 
> disease and can no longer ride an upright bike, so am selling my AHH. It 
> has a few dings but is in great shape.Basic build and comes with the basket 
> and fenders, seat, kickstand, saddle.I am asking $1550 and you cover 
> shipping costs. I am in Reno,NV.I cannot use my hands very well so I will 
> have the bike packed at local bike shop. It does need cleaning as it had 
> been sitting in storage for 2 plus years...also have a barely used 59cm 
> soma san marcos with everything but wheelset for $750 plus shipping or 
> $2000 for both bikes...my email is: ssubm...@yahoo.com  

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[RBW] FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar Ends, Sugino Triple

[Daniel Jackson]

Hi Johnny,

I'll take your thumbies!

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[RBW] FS: Choco-Norm Bar, Tallux Stem, Paul Thumbies, Shimano Bar Ends, Sugino Triple

[Johnny Alien]

1.  54cm Aluminim Choc-Norm handlebar. 100% brand new/never used. - *$80 
shipped*

https://www.rivbike.com/products/nitto-choco-norm-bar-alu-ht-54cm-x-25-4-16249

2.  24.5 clamp 13cm reach Tallux Stem. 100% brand new/never used - *$60 
shipped*

3. Paul Thumbies - Package was opened but they are brand new. - *$45 
shipped*

4. Shimano 8/9 speed bar end shifters - *$60 shipped*

5.  Sugino triple.  The exact one Rivendell sells.  Taken off of one of 
their demo bikes.  Very low miles and in excellent condition. -  *$90 
shipped*

I can work out deals if you want multiple items.

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[RBW] Butch Bubbe

[William R.]

What the other Bill said from another Bill!

Bill in Westchester, NY

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[RBW] Re: Butch Bubbe

[Tony DeFilippo]

I love a Riv with RnR style tires, no fenders, overall minimal builds... 
absolutely love them.   Like the bike version of a tuxedo t shirt or a 
mullet...  stylish but still knows how to get down and dirty!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Daniel Jackson]

Love this machine:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTMjL1oA-qM/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis! Tire question

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Deacon,
Is the Racing Ralphs more plush and smooth compared to Thunder Burts?

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 12:31 AM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> For a Compass tire-ish like ride (plush and smooth, without built in flat
> protection) while having knobbies, Thunder Burts (less aggressive lungs,
> slightly better on asphalt) and Racing Ralphs (more aggressive lugs, better
> in mud, snow, and loose, a bit noisier on asphalt but still quite smooth)
> are excellent options. Racing Ralphs are my Hunqa's tire for coming up on
> two years now, after a year with Thunder Burts.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Sunday, May 21, 2017 at 8:31:38 PM UTC-6, Birdman wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am beyond thrilled to say that I just put a deposit down on a 64
>> Atlantis with a double tt! Now I get to enjoy many months of anticipation
>> while fantasizing about bike builds...
>>
>> Speaking of which, I always rode 32mm pasellas on my Quickbeam as well as
>> on my current touring bike, because of its relatively narrow crown and
>> chain stays. The option of running larger tires on the Atlantis is part of
>> its appeal for me, but I don't really know where to begin.
>>
>> Any tire size/brand recommendations for commuting and touring with some
>> gravel and dirt roads? I know it all comes down to compromises and personal
>> preferences, but where should I start?
>>
>> Thanks. I haven't posted here in many years. It's great to be coming back
>> to the RBW Owners Bunch.
>>
>> Isaac
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Jones and Hunq

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Geeter,
Sorry to hear that you have to go thru surgery because of your disc
issues.  I just got lucky that I only required rest, therapy and visits to
a chiropractor to help me recover.  After my slip disc recovery, I actually
felt better riding my Hunqapillar versus walking.  There is something in
the riding position that helps alleviate the pain.
Can you share a picture and the built of your Jones?

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 10:02 AM, Geeter  wrote:

> Ed, I bought a Hunq and now built the Jones because of my disc issues.  I
> recently had a microdiscectomy/laminectomy on L5/S1 and I really want to
> continue riding all day like I used to.   I am considering selling my road
> and cross bikes for good because I don't know when or if I will want to be
> back on drops.  The geo of the two bikes really has me comfortable and I am
> hoping that now after surgery I will be back in the saddle, pun intended.
>
>
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