[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[Joe Bernard]

I love these stories! They're bringing back stuff I probably haven't 
thought of since the days when they happened, the welder one was wa 
back there in the recesses. 

Your "going over the guardrail" reminds me of the time my uncle - about 5 
years older, we were both still kids - took me to Shell Hill. This is a 
famously steep hill in Long Beach and not one to be trifled with. We got 
there on his Sting-Ray with me on the back of the banana seat, we'd walk up 
and sail back down. At some point he decided I should be on the front 
holding the bars and he would be on the back running the coaster brake (no 
front brakes, I don't think I'd ever even seen one). So we did that a few 
times then..well..Uncle John was crazy. The next time we got going he 
shouted YOU GOT IT! and jumped off the back. Unfortunately this sent me 
into a death wobble and I'm screaming down Shell Hill like this and he's 
screaming HOLD ON! and laughing his fool head off. But I have another 
problem looming. The stop sign. I've never stopped a really fast bike 
before AND I can't get this thing to quit wobbling and trying to spit me 
onto the pavement. But I did it! To this day I don't know how I got the 
bars to stabilize and my foot to ride steady on the coaster without 
skidding, but I STOPPED THAT BIKE BEFORE THE STOP SIGN AND DIDN'T SAIL INTO 
CROSS TRAFFIC 
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:14:30 PM UTC-7 Ray Varella wrote:

>
> There has never been a lag for me, it started on S.O.S Drive in Walnut 
> Creek, less than a mile from where Rivendell currently resides
> At under 3 years old I would push my tricycle up the hill and put my knee 
> on the seat to race down (tricycles are fixed gear)
> One day I came racing into the driveway and into the bushes, jamming a 
> stick into my eye. 
> Mom rushed me to the doctor, mom had one arm and one leg while the nurse 
> had the other, the doctor was kneeling on my chest to hold me still while 
> they pulled the stick out of my eye…no vision damage but three adults could 
> barely wrestle me. 
> Fast forward to the day before my 4th birthday, I found a crescent wrench 
> and used it to remove the training wheels from my solid rubber wheeled 16 
> inch wheeled bike, this was the day I became a mechanic. 
> I used to ride this bike down the same hill as the tricycle, I would put 
> my feet on the handlebars and ride down the hill. 
> I did this often. The day I removed my training wheels I did this same 
> routine but the bike went much faster because I wasn’t rocking from side to 
> side and scrubbing off speed with the training wheels. 
> I got to the bottom of the hill and crashed into the guardrail going over 
> it and getting pretty banged up. 
> After that it was game on, there has never been a period of my life where 
> bicycles didn’t play a large part. 
> Bicycles have always been so liberating. 
> My mom used to see me miles from home and want to know how I got there. 
> I rode the busiest roads, I never thought twice about it. 
> I rode cruisers, single speeds, ten speeds, road bikes, you name it. 
> I cobbled together out of my stash, I always had spare bikes for friends 
> to ride. 
> Decades of road bike miles were my best therapy during difficult times, 
> turning pedals for hours is how I meditate. 
> Bicycles are one of my very favorite inventions. I don’t know how I would 
> have spent my time without bicycles. 
> When I’m in need of tranquility, a bike ride out into nature provides the 
> best medicine. 
>
> Thank you for starting this thread, I owe so much to riding bikes. 
>
> Ray
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:32:14 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Several entries have reminded me that there actually wasn't a huge gulf 
>> between my 'kid on a bike' days and 'being a bikey' but in those days I 
>> didn't understand there was a thing called cycling, we just rode our bikes. 
>>
>> Leah's story reminded me of the welder guy on our block, which is where 
>> all the parents in the neighborhood bought Sting-Rays for their kids. He 
>> had a garage that was open all day and half the night and there were always 
>> dozens of bikes and frames in there. I don't know how he got them all - in 
>> N. Long Beach, CA. in the late-'60s you probably weren't going to ask the 
>> big guy with a welding torch in his hand too many questions - but he would 
>> weld the snapped downtubes back together, get some spray paint on there and 
>> sell it to your dad. Then - this was the heyday of Evel Knievel jumping 
>> buses - we would set up ramps in the alley and break them again! 
>>
>> Later I had a Sears 10-speed and a succession of Schwinn Varsitys and 
>> Continentals. My first job (like most boys then) was delivering newspapers 
>> on a Schwinn. Little kids at 4am wobbling down the street with huge heavy 
>> bags on the handlebars - crashing regularly, especially with Sunday papers 
>> - is unimaginable now, but we did it! 
>>
>> So that's the kid part of my story. 
>>
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[Ray Varella]

Every Schwann head badge I’ve removed or installed used little tapered 
screws , the taper allowed them to get nice and snug in the thick steel 
head tubes. 
I just located a head badge and I’m willing to bet the the screws are 
somewhere in the same drawer of the toolbox where I put them over 35 years 
ago for safe keeping. 

Ray

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:38:48 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, Laing. That is what I expected to be the case.
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 1:38 PM lconley  wrote:
>
>> Varsity headbadges were attached with screws as were other Schwinns, 
>> including the Paramount. I used one of the screw holes to route my internal 
>> light wiring on my Paramount.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:42 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I made a head badge, etched with an ungrammatical Latin tag, for my 
>>> second comprehensive bike build/rebuild circa 1972 (complete strip, 
>>> repaint, and rebuild of Alvit Varsity), and am quite clear that I didn't 
>>> drill and tap holes for mounting screws (I was 16 or so and had never heard 
>>> of such a process) and I am even more sure that double sided tape was not 
>>> offered. So even Varsity headbadges must have been mounted with screws? Can 
>>> anyone say?
>>>
>>> Note: The rehabb'd Varsity was a work of teenage art (black gloss, hand 
>>> pinstriped, half-stepped AW with Cyclo Benelux rd and single front ring, 
>>> whitewall tires, shiny silver aluminum fenders) but when I next fingered 
>>> one some 40+ years later I was shocked at what a dog it was. A very well 
>>> made and sturdy dog, but a true dog.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
>>> kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 It was mentioned before, and I'll put my vote in for VHB tape (very 
 high bond). Not a pro, so I can't make a pro tip, but as an enthusiastic 
 amateur, let me recommend that you first stick it to the badge, carefully 
 trim it back from the edge, and stick it, hopefully not upside down, 
 because- very high bond.
 -Kai

>>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[Ray Varella]

There has never been a lag for me, it started on S.O.S Drive in Walnut 
Creek, less than a mile from where Rivendell currently resides
At under 3 years old I would push my tricycle up the hill and put my knee 
on the seat to race down (tricycles are fixed gear)
One day I came racing into the driveway and into the bushes, jamming a 
stick into my eye. 
Mom rushed me to the doctor, mom had one arm and one leg while the nurse 
had the other, the doctor was kneeling on my chest to hold me still while 
they pulled the stick out of my eye…no vision damage but three adults could 
barely wrestle me. 
Fast forward to the day before my 4th birthday, I found a crescent wrench 
and used it to remove the training wheels from my solid rubber wheeled 16 
inch wheeled bike, this was the day I became a mechanic. 
I used to ride this bike down the same hill as the tricycle, I would put my 
feet on the handlebars and ride down the hill. 
I did this often. The day I removed my training wheels I did this same 
routine but the bike went much faster because I wasn’t rocking from side to 
side and scrubbing off speed with the training wheels. 
I got to the bottom of the hill and crashed into the guardrail going over 
it and getting pretty banged up. 
After that it was game on, there has never been a period of my life where 
bicycles didn’t play a large part. 
Bicycles have always been so liberating. 
My mom used to see me miles from home and want to know how I got there. 
I rode the busiest roads, I never thought twice about it. 
I rode cruisers, single speeds, ten speeds, road bikes, you name it. 
I cobbled together out of my stash, I always had spare bikes for friends to 
ride. 
Decades of road bike miles were my best therapy during difficult times, 
turning pedals for hours is how I meditate. 
Bicycles are one of my very favorite inventions. I don’t know how I would 
have spent my time without bicycles. 
When I’m in need of tranquility, a bike ride out into nature provides the 
best medicine. 

Thank you for starting this thread, I owe so much to riding bikes. 

Ray
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:32:14 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Several entries have reminded me that there actually wasn't a huge gulf 
> between my 'kid on a bike' days and 'being a bikey' but in those days I 
> didn't understand there was a thing called cycling, we just rode our bikes. 
>
> Leah's story reminded me of the welder guy on our block, which is where 
> all the parents in the neighborhood bought Sting-Rays for their kids. He 
> had a garage that was open all day and half the night and there were always 
> dozens of bikes and frames in there. I don't know how he got them all - in 
> N. Long Beach, CA. in the late-'60s you probably weren't going to ask the 
> big guy with a welding torch in his hand too many questions - but he would 
> weld the snapped downtubes back together, get some spray paint on there and 
> sell it to your dad. Then - this was the heyday of Evel Knievel jumping 
> buses - we would set up ramps in the alley and break them again! 
>
> Later I had a Sears 10-speed and a succession of Schwinn Varsitys and 
> Continentals. My first job (like most boys then) was delivering newspapers 
> on a Schwinn. Little kids at 4am wobbling down the street with huge heavy 
> bags on the handlebars - crashing regularly, especially with Sunday papers 
> - is unimaginable now, but we did it! 
>
> So that's the kid part of my story. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:41:27 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> A friend on PM asked how I got from the "flashy roadies" beginning of 
>> this story to Rivendell so here's that (slightly edited) answer:
>>
>> It was kind of a long gestation that overlapped the Riv world before that 
>> was a thing. The cool road bikes at the time were lugged steel and that 
>> first Bianchi I noticed was definitely friction shift, probably Campy. I 
>> was young and poor so I found older Motobecanes, Centurions and such and 
>> did the drop-bars-and-lycra thing. 
>>
>> In the late '80s I discovered Bridgestone, which as you know was Grant 
>> trying to hold onto sensible lugged steel bikes as the industry was about 
>> to tumble headlong into "rad" aluminum road (not many) and mountain 
>> (everybody had one) bikes. 
>>
>> So I stuck there with my lycra. I had a couple different used Bstones, my 
>> first new-as-an-adult bike was a closeout XO-3 with moustache handlebars, 
>> this was right after Bstone USA closed. At that point I was already signed 
>> up for Grant's Bridgestone Owners Bunch, which morphed into us early 
>> adopters getting the Rivendell Reader. Riv World!
>>
>> Fast forward: Still lycra, drop bars came stock but I probably switched 
>> to moustache at some point, my first Riv was a Romulus I got new from a 
>> dealer in Dublin in 2003. This had a Brooks B17 which was a stunning 
>> revelation for me. Soon I was in Riv shorts and a few years after that I 
>> started with pullback 

[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[Joe Bernard]

Several entries have reminded me that there actually wasn't a huge gulf 
between my 'kid on a bike' days and 'being a bikey' but in those days I 
didn't understand there was a thing called cycling, we just rode our bikes. 

Leah's story reminded me of the welder guy on our block, which is where all 
the parents in the neighborhood bought Sting-Rays for their kids. He had a 
garage that was open all day and half the night and there were always 
dozens of bikes and frames in there. I don't know how he got them all - in 
N. Long Beach, CA. in the late-'60s you probably weren't going to ask the 
big guy with a welding torch in his hand too many questions - but he would 
weld the snapped downtubes back together, get some spray paint on there and 
sell it to your dad. Then - this was the heyday of Evel Knievel jumping 
buses - we would set up ramps in the alley and break them again! 

Later I had a Sears 10-speed and a succession of Schwinn Varsitys and 
Continentals. My first job (like most boys then) was delivering newspapers 
on a Schwinn. Little kids at 4am wobbling down the street with huge heavy 
bags on the handlebars - crashing regularly, especially with Sunday papers 
- is unimaginable now, but we did it! 

So that's the kid part of my story. 

Joe Bernard

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:41:27 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> A friend on PM asked how I got from the "flashy roadies" beginning of this 
> story to Rivendell so here's that (slightly edited) answer:
>
> It was kind of a long gestation that overlapped the Riv world before that 
> was a thing. The cool road bikes at the time were lugged steel and that 
> first Bianchi I noticed was definitely friction shift, probably Campy. I 
> was young and poor so I found older Motobecanes, Centurions and such and 
> did the drop-bars-and-lycra thing. 
>
> In the late '80s I discovered Bridgestone, which as you know was Grant 
> trying to hold onto sensible lugged steel bikes as the industry was about 
> to tumble headlong into "rad" aluminum road (not many) and mountain 
> (everybody had one) bikes. 
>
> So I stuck there with my lycra. I had a couple different used Bstones, my 
> first new-as-an-adult bike was a closeout XO-3 with moustache handlebars, 
> this was right after Bstone USA closed. At that point I was already signed 
> up for Grant's Bridgestone Owners Bunch, which morphed into us early 
> adopters getting the Rivendell Reader. Riv World!
>
> Fast forward: Still lycra, drop bars came stock but I probably switched to 
> moustache at some point, my first Riv was a Romulus I got new from a dealer 
> in Dublin in 2003. This had a Brooks B17 which was a stunning revelation 
> for me. Soon I was in Riv shorts and a few years after that I started with 
> pullback bars. That's my story, I'm a Riv lifer! 
>
> Attached is a pic of a much younger and fitter me with my Rom. Apparently 
> I thought matching blue tires were cool! 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:48:18 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how 
>> he and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your 
>> initial foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice 
>> them later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>>
>> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was 
>> the flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
>> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
>> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
>> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
>> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
>> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
>> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>>
>> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[luckyturnip]

Love this thread.

I always loved bikes, I remember pedaling my own hand-me-down banana seat bike 
shirtless around the neighborhood at age 6 or so.

Age 12 I started babysitting for a family that had a used FRENCH ROAD RACING 
BIKE sitting on their porch—that no one rode! I’d discovered that bike racing 
was a thing, and I loved mechanical stuff, so I brokered a deal: Babysit the 
whole year, every Friday or Saturday, and they‘d give me that bike.

It was an ASTRA by Motobecane. It just succumbed to intrusive rust this year…35 
years after I earned it. It’s travelled abroad and had several configurations 
in its lifetime.

And was one of probably 100 bikes I’ve owned, sold, traded since then. 

Discovered Bridgestone in the early 90’s Discovered Riv in the mid-90’s

Now have two Bridgestones (MB-5 and MB-1) and an Atlantis (amongst other 
non-Riv bikes). 

> On Sep 3, 2021, at 19:47, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> <0286DF72-AD8D-4769-BD82-B1A4BE769160.jpeg>
> I can’t ever remember not loving bikes, but the problem was that I got the 
> damaged ones from garage sales. I remember my trike had been backed over by a 
> family car (was it our family car???) and if you pedaled with all your might 
> you could inch along. I was 5 when I got my first bike, another garage sale 
> find that had ALSO been backed over by the family’s car. The dad welded the 
> bike back into shape, good as new, surely. It had no training wheels (who had 
> those in the 80s?) but it DID have little rose decals and a purple banana 
> seat, and it smelled like freedom. I determined I would learn to ride it. I 
> pushed off and crashed my way down the busiest street in my tiny hometown, 
> shoeless and bleeding, scaring the neighbors as they drove by. I’m sure no 
> one could be bothered to see that I had air in the tires. But I was building 
> character! 80s kid character.
> 
> Like my damaged trike, this damaged bike took massive effort to pedal. I 
> didn’t realize or know any different until my friend got her Rainbow Brite 
> bike. I was pea green with envy. She had a basket and STREAMERS. And when I 
> pedaled her bike, it was like butter. So easy. In 6th grade, my parents 
> bought me a Huffy mountain bike for Christmas. The best Christmas gift ever, 
> and no one had run it over with the family car yet. It was December in North 
> Dakota, so I waited months to ride that bike. But I went out to the garage to 
> admire it often. Ok, all the time. It had a little zippered handlebar bag and 
> a plastic water bottle (with a crack in the lid). I was delighted. My best 
> friend got the same bike and we’d sometimes ride to her farm on a Friday 
> after school (5 miles of gravel, seemed like we were setting out into the 
> great unknown) and ride her horses all weekend.
> 
> Then came high school and a long bike drought.
> 
> My husband bought me a Schwinn bike from Walmart for my birthday in my 20s, 
> and my father in law bought me a bike trailer, so I could bring my baby boys. 
> It was so fun and freeing and it reminded me of being a kid. I was so proud 
> of that bike; if it said Schwinn, it must be quality! I rode that blue 
> Schwinn until it developed mechanical problems and THEN I found Rivendell. 
> The rest of the story has been written elsewhere…
> 
> Here is a photo that proves I haven’t gone too far from my roots. We might 
> discuss what is going on with those fenders, and muse that my parents NAILED 
> the saddle height, which appears to remain unchanged. And another photo of my 
> Christmas bike in the storage shed at Mom and Dad’s. I swear it was so much 
> cooler than you think.
> Leah
> 
> 
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 4:44:37 PM UTC-7 Robert Tilley wrote:
>> I was 18 and was a bit chubby. I decided I needed to find some exercise to 
>> keep me fit and knew I needed to settle on something I enjoyed so that I’d 
>> keep at it. I hated jogging but loved riding and rode all over town up until 
>> I got my license on my 16th birthday. So bicycles it was.
>> 
>> The first bike I bought was a Schwinn Sierra in the sweet black chrome 
>> “colorway” and I rode that to work as well as to campus. A bit later I 
>> decided I needed something for recreational riding and picked up a Nishiki 
>> Prestige in an even sweeter plum/mauve “colorway”. 
>> 
>> I have too many other outdoor hobbies but cycling is still #1 and the one I 
>> spend the most time, and money, on. I’m 54 now so it’s been over 30 years 
>> since I made that decision.
>> 
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Sep 3, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
 
>>> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
>>> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
>>> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
>>> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los 

[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[ascpgh]

My re-immersion in cycling followed a fairly rapid progression of 
graduation, commission, service in the military and a month and a half at 
Walter Reed. 

I had a rough recovery and did lots of reading and talking to folks about 
mountain bikes and their riding in the kinds of places I risked with the 
greatest of care on my Motobecane. As a kid in the St. Louis area, I rode 
everywhere, got my Bicycling Merit badge in the scouts,  carefully charted 
and rode a route down to the Gateway Arch and back surreptitiously on that 
bike. I rode it with friends on their little BMX bikes into the trails 
behind the motorcycle shop which backed up to the western margin of our 
development. Early underbiker. 

When I came home from the service to my folks home in Hot Springs, AR I had 
a yellow 1996 Specialized RockHopper with less than 100 miles on it in my 
room, a leg brace and crutches. Once I got enough range of motion with my 
knee to let me sit on the saddle and turn the pedals without being jacked 
up each turn, I walked the bike to the garage, left my crutches, steadied 
myself on the door frame while tightening the toe clip straps around my 
right foot. Without return of proprioception I discovered the trainer stand 
was almost deadly when my foot just floated off the pedal at the top of a 
stroke and would get tangled up in something. I found Keirin double toe 
strap loop clips for the win. 

I was the petrified cripple on a bike riding six miles into town on a 
mountain bike (thankfully). I ultimately began to ride to the summit of one 
then both of the mountains in the National Park each morning. By summer I 
was repeating the same trip in the afternoon each day. I visited friends 
back in my college town and an idea struck me after wandering around there 
for a few days. Their bike shops were not grasping MTBs. I cooked up an 
idea to open a narrow high quality selection MTB shop in an existing 
outdoor outfitter that was becoming an institution there. My five paragraph 
op order format business plan was a win and I worked there for ten years 
selling midline and up bikes including Bridgestone as well as managing the 
business. 

Fast forward through meeting and marrying my wife when I was asked to ride 
across the country with a few other folks and my smoldering  thoughts about 
not liking the fit of my RB-1 got worse. Rides beyond four hours were 
painful. I needed a shorter top tube frame and when I called Grant he said 
had the ticket, in a shipping container, on the ocean, to be painted when 
they got here. Rivendell's second production frame, the Rambouillet, an 
audax-inspired bike good for a 15 pound load and credit card camping. There 
I was, drop bars a bit above my Brooks B-17, 110BCD triple TA Zephyr, 105 
derailleurs and indexed (then) bar end shifters on some 33m Jack Browns. It 
arrived the night before I was due in Yorktown, VA. Cross country was the 
test ride. I rode many places on that bike and still do. It and many on 
this list provided insights collected over the years with which I put 
together a new bike for my uses. 

Lots of cycling miles, lots of recovery from injuries over the years, both 
visible and not aided by riding. I commute daily to work now and am 
introduced by others not so much as a guy who is "bikey" but someone who 
rides a bike anywhere, any time, all year long and tends to his own issues. 
I guess that's pretty astute. It's been very touching to have the 
occasional opportunity to share cycling with others who really get it and 
become bikey too. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:48:18 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>
> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the 
> flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>
> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>
> Joe Bernard
>

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Re: [RBW] Need 700x45C recommendations, please

[Mark Allen]

I hate to be that person who recommends the thing you *just* said you don't 
want, but as a not-small person I've had impressively good luck on Rene 
Herse's 700x44 Snoqualmie Pass with the Endurance casing. The combo of the 
tougher casing and wider width (which allowed lower tire pressures) let me 
get nearly 7k miles with only one flat before the rear needed to be 
replaced, where earlier attempts with RH/Compass tires were not nearly as 
successful.

Mark
Toronto
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:04:19 PM UTC-4 Pancake wrote:

> My early Hillborne fits and rides Schwalbe G-one Allround tires very well, 
> strongly recommended 56cm frame for reference. Also did well with 44mm 
> Snoqualmie Pass tires.
> [image: IMG_5445a.jpg][image: IMG_4510.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Matthew Williams]

Quickbeam
61cm (listed as 24", verify with seller)
$1250
Walnut Creek, CA
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/d/alamo-rivendell-quickbeam-24/7375332438.html


Atlantis
64cm
$2600
Reno, NV
https://reno.craigslist.org/bik/d/reno-rivendell-atlantis-rohloff/7375321284.html

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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[rltilley]

I was 18 and was a bit chubby. I decided I needed to find some exercise to keep 
me fit and knew I needed to settle on something I enjoyed so that I’d keep at 
it. I hated jogging but loved riding and rode all over town up until I got my 
license on my 16th birthday. So bicycles it was.

The first bike I bought was a Schwinn Sierra in the sweet black chrome 
“colorway” and I rode that to work as well as to campus. A bit later I decided 
I needed something for recreational riding and picked up a Nishiki Prestige in 
an even sweeter plum/mauve “colorway”. 

I have too many other outdoor hobbies but cycling is still #1 and the one I 
spend the most time, and money, on. I’m 54 now so it’s been over 30 years since 
I made that decision.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
> 
> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the 
> flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on a 
> motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
> 
> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
> 
> Joe Bernard
> -- 
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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[Garth]

I've been riding a bike since I was able to straddle our no-name shared 
spray painted green kids bike, with a gold striped banana seat. I still 
remember taking off down the driveway with training wheels yip !  
It was like when a bird takes it's first flight . there's no going back 
nor is there anywhere to go back to. It was and still is the floating thru 
the air with great ease and grace that I ride . My sister and I used to 
ride around the block on Sunday afternoons listening to America's Top 40 
with Casey Kasem. She had the transistor radio in her quaint little white 
front basket while we meandered around the block. My first "real bike" was 
a '76-77 red Raleigh 3-speed, an LTD I think. I had it but a few years and 
sold it for used classic yellow Fuji 10-speed I bought from a doctor. That 
was a whole lot more fun to ride than the 3-speed !



On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 6:29:55 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I was an avid cyclist as a small child -- recall an early family photo of 
> myself and friend, age about 8, posing proudly with our cruisers -- 
> interesting: his was a very ancient 28" wheel, but American wheels, 
> cruiser; mine a 24" wheel JC Higgins -- but started self-consciously 
> identifying with bicycles and cycling at age 14, 1969, Eddy's first annus 
> mirabilis (2 "n's"), when I first sensed the world of pro cycling; that's 
> about the time I began to read the local municipal (Nairobi, Kenya, some 6 
> years after the Brits left) library's small and forlorn collection of 
> cycling literature, including all sorts of ancient and weird and long-since 
> debunked pro lore by forgotten Brit riders counseling "ankling," frames 
> "softening with age," and very thin silk socks under your tightly cinched 
> Dettos for best foot-to-pedal interface. 
>
> After hot-rodding my metallic gold (with white accents) Raleigh Sports 
> (which itself replaced, by a complex sale-for-purchase upgrade from an 
> already hot-rodded rod braked, scarlet-painted, AW geared Hero just before 
> the move from New Delhi to Nairobi), I built my first bike-from-scratch in 
> mid-summer 1970 (December 1970, 90 miles So of the equator, halfway through 
> Sophomore year*). 50X15 X 622 bsd.This was the bike about which I've 
> regaled you: Indian rod-braked roadster frame for 28" Westwood wheels, 700C 
> Czecho steel flip flop rear, 24" Westwood front stolen from my little 
> brother's kiddie's bike. No brake would fit, so I rode on hilly roads** and 
> downtown traffic, and braked by jamming my right Ked Hightop onto the front 
> tire, wearing a diagonal groove across the sole.
>
> then a year or so later, refurbished an Alvit Varsity with half-stepped AW 
> drivetrain. My last upgrade during high school years was to sell the 
> 'rodded Varsity for KS 250/- and buy a departing American expat's roadie 
> Raleigh Sprite. Now, there are Sprites and Sprites, but this was just one 
> step below the Grand Prix, with 10-sp half step, swaged and cottered crank, 
> Brooks B 15, rat trap pedal build. I was not able to take this to college 
> halfway around the world, so there was a 10-year hiatus when I'd ride 
> borrowed bikes but owned none, until I "got back into" cycling circa 1986 
> with the purchase of an LL Bean-branded, low-end equipped Cannondale sports 
> tourer; and since then, I've not looked back.
>
> *My mother kept our Nairobi International School yearbooks for decades 
> after publication, and my brother just a few days ago told me that the 
> Sophomore edition, with photo of me and this first bike build, first 
> quarter 1971, was tossed with much other family lore in the welter of 
> cleaning out my mother's house after she died in Jan 2015. 
>
> ** Kenya had, so we children were told, the world's highest auto accident 
> rate in the world at that (late '60s early '70s) point in history. I saw 
> buses racing each other side by side around blind corners on very hilly, 
> winding, narrow roads with no shoulders -- we came across a priest of our 
> acquaintance standing bewildered by the side of the road, his (original, 4" 
> long) Fiat 500 overturned, after he had to bail when a bus came round the 
> blind corner on the wrong side of the road); and I saw a small British 
> sedan left destroyed on the road down the hill from our house after being 
> decapitated (all sheared off above the doors) by a lorry racing along on 
> the wrong side of the road after reaching ~60 mph at the bottom of a long, 
> steep hill. I was told that the car carried a young family.
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 3:43 PM Jack Doran  wrote:
>
>> Being newly unemployed and poor, newly single and heartbroken during the 
>> great recession. Set up a free cycled, cheap aluminum rear rack on my Surly 
>> Cross Check, bungee corded a car camping sleeping bag, pad, and tent to it, 
>> and rode up to a spot I knew in Tilden where I figured nobody would bother 
>> me if I spent the night.
>>
>> Can we bring "bikie" back? 

Re: [RBW] Need 700x45C recommendations, please

[David Hallerman]

If 700x43 is okay, Gravel King SS has a really useful mixed tread.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 6:29 PM EricP  wrote:

> Looking to put the biggest tires I can on my early Sam Hillborne. With the
> sidepulls, 45mm is supposedly max. So what's out there? I have the Kendas
> from the Clem on there now. Heavy and slow, but very reliable.
>
> As I am very heavy don't want to try the Rene Herse (Grand Bois) again.
> Had a set of Barlow Pass on this spring and ended up with three punctures
> on one ride. Just not worth it for the super light weight.
>
> So far am thinking of the Schwalbe G-One, but what are some other favorite
> options?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] HUGE Rivendell archive update: Catalogs, flyers, brochures and more

[Eric Marth]

Peace and love, everyone! 

EricP -- I don't have a Hillborne brochure or the other small folded 
article pamphlet thing! DM sent ;) 

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 6:25:07 PM UTC-4 EricP wrote:

> Thanks for doing this. That took a lot of work.
>
> Notice that you didn't include the Sam Hillborne brochure or the small 
> folded piece that has a couple of short articles (the shoes ruse) and then 
> the other side has the bikes available.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:21:54 PM UTC-5 esoter...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Eric,
>>
>> Just another list member who's sending you heaps of thanks for taking 
>> this project on and sharing with the community. Thank you Thank You THANK 
>> YOU!!  Cheers,
>>
>> ~Mark
>> Raleigh, NC
>>
>>
>> On Sep 3, 2021, at 15:59, Olivier Chételat  wrote:
>>
>> Much much impressive archiving work. Superthanks!
>>
>> -Oli in SF
>>
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-7 Benjamin Kelley wrote:
>>
>>> Even got a shoutout on the newsletter this week.
>>> Excellent work!.
>>>
>>> --ben in KC
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 6:53 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
 I hope you all enjoy, these catalogs are really cool. Great wisdom and 
 writing, cool parts through the ages. Heartbreaking wool prices. 


 [image: IMG_5960.JPG]

 On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 5:36:06 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams 
 wrote:

> Oh, this is great. Thank you, Eric!
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 2, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> I've spent the last several months scanning my collection of Rivendell 
> catalogs, flyers, ads and brochures. 
>
> Reed, who hosts the archive of Rivendell Readers at 
> http://notfine.com/rivreader/, kindly added all of my scans to the 
> site. Now there is quite a trove of Rivendell ephemera. 
>
> He created a new link (the old one still works!): 
> http://notfine.com/rivendell/
>
> Enjoy reading! All of the files are text searchable. If you have 
> anything that we haven't included please send me a DM. 
>
>
>- All 20 Rivendell catalogs
>   -  Catalogs from 1996-2018
>- Frame brochures
>   - 1995 frames mailer
>   - Atlantis and Atlantis 2
>   - Rambouillet
>   - Romulus
>   - Rivendell Frame Brochure
>   - An early frame paint chart
>   - *I'm missing the Cheviot brochure*
>- Flyers
>   - Nine flyers from 2002–2009
>   - *I'm missing Hiawatha Holidays No. 1 *
>- Ads
>   - An add for the reader from Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
>   - A 2014 Cheviot ad
>
>
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
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>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/eb11aa9f-061c-4dde-a616-f7ea2e69c997n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>> -- 
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Laing. That is what I expected to be the case.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 1:38 PM lconley  wrote:

> Varsity headbadges were attached with screws as were other Schwinns,
> including the Paramount. I used one of the screw holes to route my internal
> light wiring on my Paramount.
>
> Laing
>
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:42 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I made a head badge, etched with an ungrammatical Latin tag, for my
>> second comprehensive bike build/rebuild circa 1972 (complete strip,
>> repaint, and rebuild of Alvit Varsity), and am quite clear that I didn't
>> drill and tap holes for mounting screws (I was 16 or so and had never heard
>> of such a process) and I am even more sure that double sided tape was not
>> offered. So even Varsity headbadges must have been mounted with screws? Can
>> anyone say?
>>
>> Note: The rehabb'd Varsity was a work of teenage art (black gloss, hand
>> pinstriped, half-stepped AW with Cyclo Benelux rd and single front ring,
>> whitewall tires, shiny silver aluminum fenders) but when I next fingered
>> one some 40+ years later I was shocked at what a dog it was. A very well
>> made and sturdy dog, but a true dog.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
>> kaivi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It was mentioned before, and I'll put my vote in for VHB tape (very high
>>> bond). Not a pro, so I can't make a pro tip, but as an enthusiastic
>>> amateur, let me recommend that you first stick it to the badge, carefully
>>> trim it back from the edge, and stick it, hopefully not upside down,
>>> because- very high bond.
>>> -Kai
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Need 700x45C recommendations, please

[EricP]

Looking to put the biggest tires I can on my early Sam Hillborne. With the 
sidepulls, 45mm is supposedly max. So what's out there? I have the Kendas 
from the Clem on there now. Heavy and slow, but very reliable.

As I am very heavy don't want to try the Rene Herse (Grand Bois) again. Had 
a set of Barlow Pass on this spring and ended up with three punctures on 
one ride. Just not worth it for the super light weight.

So far am thinking of the Schwalbe G-One, but what are some other favorite 
options? 

Thanks.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[Patrick Moore]

I was an avid cyclist as a small child -- recall an early family photo of
myself and friend, age about 8, posing proudly with our cruisers --
interesting: his was a very ancient 28" wheel, but American wheels,
cruiser; mine a 24" wheel JC Higgins -- but started self-consciously
identifying with bicycles and cycling at age 14, 1969, Eddy's first annus
mirabilis (2 "n's"), when I first sensed the world of pro cycling; that's
about the time I began to read the local municipal (Nairobi, Kenya, some 6
years after the Brits left) library's small and forlorn collection of
cycling literature, including all sorts of ancient and weird and long-since
debunked pro lore by forgotten Brit riders counseling "ankling," frames
"softening with age," and very thin silk socks under your tightly cinched
Dettos for best foot-to-pedal interface.

After hot-rodding my metallic gold (with white accents) Raleigh Sports
(which itself replaced, by a complex sale-for-purchase upgrade from an
already hot-rodded rod braked, scarlet-painted, AW geared Hero just before
the move from New Delhi to Nairobi), I built my first bike-from-scratch in
mid-summer 1970 (December 1970, 90 miles So of the equator, halfway through
Sophomore year*). 50X15 X 622 bsd.This was the bike about which I've
regaled you: Indian rod-braked roadster frame for 28" Westwood wheels, 700C
Czecho steel flip flop rear, 24" Westwood front stolen from my little
brother's kiddie's bike. No brake would fit, so I rode on hilly roads** and
downtown traffic, and braked by jamming my right Ked Hightop onto the front
tire, wearing a diagonal groove across the sole.

then a year or so later, refurbished an Alvit Varsity with half-stepped AW
drivetrain. My last upgrade during high school years was to sell the
'rodded Varsity for KS 250/- and buy a departing American expat's roadie
Raleigh Sprite. Now, there are Sprites and Sprites, but this was just one
step below the Grand Prix, with 10-sp half step, swaged and cottered crank,
Brooks B 15, rat trap pedal build. I was not able to take this to college
halfway around the world, so there was a 10-year hiatus when I'd ride
borrowed bikes but owned none, until I "got back into" cycling circa 1986
with the purchase of an LL Bean-branded, low-end equipped Cannondale sports
tourer; and since then, I've not looked back.

*My mother kept our Nairobi International School yearbooks for decades
after publication, and my brother just a few days ago told me that the
Sophomore edition, with photo of me and this first bike build, first
quarter 1971, was tossed with much other family lore in the welter of
cleaning out my mother's house after she died in Jan 2015.

** Kenya had, so we children were told, the world's highest auto accident
rate in the world at that (late '60s early '70s) point in history. I saw
buses racing each other side by side around blind corners on very hilly,
winding, narrow roads with no shoulders -- we came across a priest of our
acquaintance standing bewildered by the side of the road, his (original, 4"
long) Fiat 500 overturned, after he had to bail when a bus came round the
blind corner on the wrong side of the road); and I saw a small British
sedan left destroyed on the road down the hill from our house after being
decapitated (all sheared off above the doors) by a lorry racing along on
the wrong side of the road after reaching ~60 mph at the bottom of a long,
steep hill. I was told that the car carried a young family.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 3:43 PM Jack Doran  wrote:

> Being newly unemployed and poor, newly single and heartbroken during the
> great recession. Set up a free cycled, cheap aluminum rear rack on my Surly
> Cross Check, bungee corded a car camping sleeping bag, pad, and tent to it,
> and rode up to a spot I knew in Tilden where I figured nobody would bother
> me if I spent the night.
>
> Can we bring "bikie" back? I've read posts by Jobst Brandt where he uses
> it, but I haven't heard it anywhere else.
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 2:29:48 PM UTC-7 Jon Richardson wrote:
>
>> After I had to stop coaching Soccer after my fifth knee surgery.  I
>> started with a Colnago C40 road bike, it was fast and light.  I then had a
>> Heart Attack out of nowhere...and used cycling as a means to recover and
>> started to enjoy my old steel bike.  I found a Rivendell Rambo and fitted
>> with Jack Black 33s...it was a dream to ride.  It has become my go to bike.
>>
>> Cycling has given me the physical outlet I need, so far delayed my knee
>> replacement and has helped me mentally and physically in a number of
>> possitive ways.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 4:54 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:
>>
>>> For me it was  seeing road cyclists out training on Whitney Ave. in
>>> Hamden and New Haven, Ct. Most or all were on the Yale cycling team, and
>>> they would wave to me when I was riding my Humber Clipper Grand Prix that I
>>> got in 1964. Steve
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:48 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 Will has an 

[RBW] Re: FS: three sets of 700c tires

[Paul Richardson]

the gravelkings and somas are spoken for.  

i'm open to any reasonable offer on the schwalbes.  (shipping will cost me 
$15.50, so consider that the base price, plus whatever the tires are worth 
to you).

thanks again for helping me clean out my garage!
paul
takoma park, md.

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Re: [RBW] HUGE Rivendell archive update: Catalogs, flyers, brochures and more

[EricP]

Thanks for doing this. That took a lot of work.

Notice that you didn't include the Sam Hillborne brochure or the small 
folded piece that has a couple of short articles (the shoes ruse) and then 
the other side has the bikes available.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:21:54 PM UTC-5 esoter...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Eric,
>
> Just another list member who's sending you heaps of thanks for taking this 
> project on and sharing with the community. Thank you Thank You THANK YOU!! 
>  Cheers,
>
> ~Mark
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> On Sep 3, 2021, at 15:59, Olivier Chételat  wrote:
>
> Much much impressive archiving work. Superthanks!
>
> -Oli in SF
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-7 Benjamin Kelley wrote:
>
>> Even got a shoutout on the newsletter this week.
>> Excellent work!.
>>
>> --ben in KC
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 6:53 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> I hope you all enjoy, these catalogs are really cool. Great wisdom and 
>>> writing, cool parts through the ages. Heartbreaking wool prices. 
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_5960.JPG]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 5:36:06 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Oh, this is great. Thank you, Eric!




 On Sep 2, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Eric Marth  wrote:

 I've spent the last several months scanning my collection of Rivendell 
 catalogs, flyers, ads and brochures. 

 Reed, who hosts the archive of Rivendell Readers at 
 http://notfine.com/rivreader/, kindly added all of my scans to the 
 site. Now there is quite a trove of Rivendell ephemera. 

 He created a new link (the old one still works!): 
 http://notfine.com/rivendell/

 Enjoy reading! All of the files are text searchable. If you have 
 anything that we haven't included please send me a DM. 


- All 20 Rivendell catalogs
   -  Catalogs from 1996-2018
- Frame brochures
   - 1995 frames mailer
   - Atlantis and Atlantis 2
   - Rambouillet
   - Romulus
   - Rivendell Frame Brochure
   - An early frame paint chart
   - *I'm missing the Cheviot brochure*
- Flyers
   - Nine flyers from 2002–2009
   - *I'm missing Hiawatha Holidays No. 1 *
- Ads
   - An add for the reader from Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
   - A 2014 Cheviot ad



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[RBW] Re: New Wheels for Clem; need advice

[EricP]

Good luck with whatever you choose. For my weight, the stock wheels on the 
Clem Jr. L are fine. But the tires had to go. They're now on my Hillborne 
and am seriously searching for something else in 700x45. That bike is now 
slower than the Clem, which shouldn't be the case.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:47:09 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I'm a huge fan of the Pacenti wheelsets. Affordable, light and well built.
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:38:55 AM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Hi Joyce
>>
>> Lighter tires would be a good first start for the Clem , as Ray 
>> mentioned. If you're interested in high-quality handbuilt wheels such as 
>> Joe mentioned...very nice BTW; I had some built for my Riv mixte...I'd use 
>> those wheels on your Platy..which is your "fun" bike, whereas the Clem is 
>> your utility bike...or, depending on what you have on the Platy, swap those 
>> over to the Clem and put the fancy new wheels on the Platypus. I'm assuming 
>> both bikes are 650B.
>>
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:14:56 AM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>>
>>> I had started with a stock complete Clem (65cm 'H' style.)
>>> I've since swapped out saddle/bars/stem/grips/tires and 
>>> added/removed/added different racks.
>>>
>>> Saddle is now a vintage B-72(scavenged from a Raleigh Sports) with 
>>> Breezer double rail adapter on the stock seat-post.
>>> - I've also since picked up a seatpost shim so I could eventually use 
>>> any 27.2 post (likely a 2-bolt post since I much prefer the ease of angle 
>>> adjustability and less chance of slipping vs. single post post (i've had 
>>> saddles slip on micro-adjust single bolts, admittedly rare and not enough 
>>> to be a huge concern, bit it's happened and annoying.)
>>> Bars/stem = Riv Bullmoose with some Ergon style grips I picked up from a 
>>> local shop 'take-off bin.'
>>> Tires = Continental MountainKing since I wanted something with more 
>>> tread/grip in loose local gravel.
>>>
>>> At the time when they announced the pre-order for the huge 65cm size I 
>>> opted for the complete since I'd still have needed a set of wheels/tires 
>>> and a couple other bits to make a complete combined with spare parts I had 
>>> on hand so the value was in the ready-to-ride complete aspect, not having 
>>> to think much about this or that, or the ultimate expense of individual 
>>> parts purchases that would likely either meet or exceed the cost of the 
>>> complete.
>>>
>>> Obviously it wasn't long before I started tinkering with it but I'm 
>>> still riding the stock wheels and drivetrain, despite swapping out much of 
>>> the rest.  Stock bosco bars and stem were traded away long ago but I still 
>>> have the stock saddle and grips around for other bikes.
>>>
>>> The multicolored spokes are one of my favorite details, though this 
>>> hasn't exactly influenced much in regard to decisions around the purchase 
>>> or ugrades.  My only real issue with the stock wheelset was the rear 
>>> non-drive size rubber dust cover for the hub... it would squeak like crazy 
>>> rubbing somewhere so I just removed it.  This will certainly lead to 
>>> earlier bearing wear I'm sure but I'd rather wear out the hub faster 
>>> without the annoying squeaks and this'll just give me an excuse to ponder 
>>> the same questions around what wheels/hubs to use next!
>>>
>>> I've debated converting to single speed for a bit with a Paul Melvin 
>>> tensioner I have set aside once the drivetrain wears out a bit more and/or 
>>> I finally get completely sick of the occasional ghost shifting with the 
>>> stock Sunrace shifters.
>>> I've also debated moving to an index 12-36 9speed with 
>>> shifter/cassette/derailer left over from a prior build that has since been 
>>> put back in reserve but this might end up on one of my wife's bikes instead 
>>> (waiting on final verdict on some bars to determine final shifting solution 
>>> vs. current downtube shifters.)
>>>
>>> On my shortlist for replacement wheels is the new Velo Orange Voyager 
>>> wheels.  Mostly for the range of adaptability 
>>> (rim/disc/tube/tubeless/38mm-2"+ tire sizes/QR/Thru-axle/etc.)  Not sure of 
>>> any weight savings but more thinking it'll be one wheelset I could adapt to 
>>> just about anything (I could see myself ending up with) since I still 
>>> occasionally like to try something different though I am trying to simplify 
>>> things so this consideration may ultimately be an over indulgence if 
>>> nothing else.
>>>
>>> Clem is absolutely my biggest bike, but not sure if the heaviest in it's 
>>> current state vs. my current regular rider = an old Raleigh 700c 
>>> conversion(long story how this thing evolved) with beefy 48spoke single 
>>> speed wheels, rack/basket, removable rear child seat, etc.
>>>
>>> I honestly don't even think much about Clem's weight except for when 
>>> lugging in/out the front door (no garage!) and even then it's size is the 
>>> greater obstacle.  In fact, it's 

[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[EricP]

All the neighborhood kids had bikes. Pretty sure mine was a Sears model 
with solid rubber tires. So I could always lay down a skid on the hill and 
not worry about blowing out. Then by the time I was in high school, 
Breaking Away was big. So I got more serious. Bought a 10 speed and over 
the next couple years rebuilt it. Helps that I started going to college 
that had a great bike shop near. Also started commuting by bike as it was 
quicker than the bus, even in winter. And the time spent riding in a storm 
seemed less dangerous than the mile plus walk to the bus stop.

Not sure how, but in about 1983/84 found out about mountain bikes and got 
one. Of course it spent most of the time commuting, but did race and 
explore trails. Basically doing back then what Rivendell started promoting 
later.

There have been a number of years where I didn't bike and even now my miles 
are a lot less than they used to be. But still enjoy it. (Oh, and I 
definitely don't consider myself a bikey.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 5:07:04 PM UTC-5 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:

> My parents were mot rich, they got me a Columbia fat tired bike from S 
> green stamps when I was 13 or so and I was in heaven.  The bike got put 
> away when in HS but in my Sr. year of college I bought a Giro D’Italia.  I 
> was in heaven.  It took me 2 more years to really ride it, why, well I quit 
> my job and started my graduate work part time in 1975, rode all that summer 
> because I liked it, usually 40+ miles a day in converse sneakers, short cut 
> offs and no shirt, no spare, no water, never thought about it.  The next 
> summer I did the same thing before heading out to St. Louis to finish my 
> masters.  I’ve been riding ever since when physical limitations do not get 
> in the way.  
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 5:45:53 PM UTC-4 Jack Doran wrote:
>
>>
>> Being newly unemployed and poor, newly single and heartbroken during the 
>> great recession. Set up a freecycled, cheap aluminum rear rack on my Surly 
>> Cross Check, bungee corded a car camping sleeping bag, pad, and tent to it, 
>> and rode up to a spot I knew in Tilden where I figured nobody would bother 
>> me if I spent the night. The next morning, I couldn't understand why 
>> everyone didn't do this.
>>
>> Can we bring "bikey" back? I've read posts by Jobst Brandt where he uses 
>> it, but I haven't heard it anywhere else.
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:48:18 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how 
>>> he and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your 
>>> initial foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice 
>>> them later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>>>
>>> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was 
>>> the flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
>>> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
>>> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
>>> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
>>> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
>>> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
>>> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>>>
>>> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[J S]

My parents were mot rich, they got me a Columbia fat tired bike from S 
green stamps when I was 13 or so and I was in heaven.  The bike got put 
away when in HS but in my Sr. year of college I bought a Giro D’Italia.  I 
was in heaven.  It took me 2 more years to really ride it, why, well I quit 
my job and started my graduate work part time in 1975, rode all that summer 
because I liked it, usually 40+ miles a day in converse sneakers, short cut 
offs and no shirt, no spare, no water, never thought about it.  The next 
summer I did the same thing before heading out to St. Louis to finish my 
masters.  I’ve been riding ever since when physical limitations do not get 
in the way.  

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 5:45:53 PM UTC-4 Jack Doran wrote:

>
> Being newly unemployed and poor, newly single and heartbroken during the 
> great recession. Set up a freecycled, cheap aluminum rear rack on my Surly 
> Cross Check, bungee corded a car camping sleeping bag, pad, and tent to it, 
> and rode up to a spot I knew in Tilden where I figured nobody would bother 
> me if I spent the night. The next morning, I couldn't understand why 
> everyone didn't do this.
>
> Can we bring "bikey" back? I've read posts by Jobst Brandt where he uses 
> it, but I haven't heard it anywhere else.
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:48:18 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how 
>> he and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your 
>> initial foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice 
>> them later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>>
>> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was 
>> the flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
>> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
>> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
>> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
>> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
>> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
>> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>>
>> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[Collin A]

Oh, this'll be a fun one!

I was 'made' a bikey by a combination of things. It was mostly my time as 
an undergrad at UC Davis in a town that appreciated and supported bicycles 
as a major mode of transportation that showed it was possible to live a car 
free life.

The other was dating a girl on the triathlon team and I wanted to spend 
more time with her, so I used my Dad's 1986 Trek 520 (that was my commuter) 
to go on rides with her. That was when the (metaphorical) bug bit when 
doing fun, but fast-ish rides to the nearby brewery on scenic country roads 
with good people.

Collin, back in Sacramento

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:48:18 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>
> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the 
> flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>
> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>
> Joe Bernard
>

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[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[Jack Doran]

Being newly unemployed and poor, newly single and heartbroken during the 
great recession. Set up a freecycled, cheap aluminum rear rack on my Surly 
Cross Check, bungee corded a car camping sleeping bag, pad, and tent to it, 
and rode up to a spot I knew in Tilden where I figured nobody would bother 
me if I spent the night. The next morning, I couldn't understand why 
everyone didn't do this.

Can we bring "bikey" back? I've read posts by Jobst Brandt where he uses 
it, but I haven't heard it anywhere else.
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:48:18 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>
> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the 
> flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>
> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>
> Joe Bernard
>

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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[Jack Doran]

Being newly unemployed and poor, newly single and heartbroken during the 
great recession. Set up a free cycled, cheap aluminum rear rack on my Surly 
Cross Check, bungee corded a car camping sleeping bag, pad, and tent to it, 
and rode up to a spot I knew in Tilden where I figured nobody would bother 
me if I spent the night.

Can we bring "bikie" back? I've read posts by Jobst Brandt where he uses 
it, but I haven't heard it anywhere else.

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 2:29:48 PM UTC-7 Jon Richardson wrote:

> After I had to stop coaching Soccer after my fifth knee surgery.  I 
> started with a Colnago C40 road bike, it was fast and light.  I then had a 
> Heart Attack out of nowhere...and used cycling as a means to recover and 
> started to enjoy my old steel bike.  I found a Rivendell Rambo and fitted 
> with Jack Black 33s...it was a dream to ride.  It has become my go to bike.
>
> Cycling has given me the physical outlet I need, so far delayed my knee 
> replacement and has helped me mentally and physically in a number of 
> possitive ways.
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 4:54 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:
>
>> For me it was  seeing road cyclists out training on Whitney Ave. in 
>> Hamden and New Haven, Ct. Most or all were on the Yale cycling team, and 
>> they would wave to me when I was riding my Humber Clipper Grand Prix that I 
>> got in 1964. Steve
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:48 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how 
>>> he and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your 
>>> initial foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice 
>>> them later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>>>
>>> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was 
>>> the flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
>>> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
>>> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
>>> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
>>> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
>>> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
>>> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>>>
>>> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ba0d13a9-5d4d-456f-99a1-813bab06d4c2n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[Jon Richardson]

After I had to stop coaching Soccer after my fifth knee surgery.  I started
with a Colnago C40 road bike, it was fast and light.  I then had a Heart
Attack out of nowhere...and used cycling as a means to recover and started
to enjoy my old steel bike.  I found a Rivendell Rambo and fitted with Jack
Black 33s...it was a dream to ride.  It has become my go to bike.

Cycling has given me the physical outlet I need, so far delayed my knee
replacement and has helped me mentally and physically in a number of
possitive ways.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021, 4:54 PM Steven Sweedler  wrote:

> For me it was  seeing road cyclists out training on Whitney Ave. in Hamden
> and New Haven, Ct. Most or all were on the Yale cycling team, and they
> would wave to me when I was riding my Humber Clipper Grand Prix that I got
> in 1964. Steve
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:48 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how
>> he and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your
>> initial foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice
>> them later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist?
>>
>> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was
>> the flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being
>> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on
>> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s.
>> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know
>> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was
>> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing,
>> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process!
>>
>> I was hooked, what hooked you?
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ba0d13a9-5d4d-456f-99a1-813bab06d4c2n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: What made you a bikey?

[lconley]

I got the Cycling Merit Badge when I was in the Boy Scouts. Had to do 6 @ 
25 mile rides and 1 @ 50 mile ride. Did them on a Schwinn Stingray with 20" 
wheels and a 2 speed kickback Bendix hub in 1969 (13 years old). Then I 
bought a 10 speed Schwinn Suburban (upright handlebars, kind of 
albatross-like, with fenders, saddlebag and generator lights - kind of 
Rivvy long before there was a Rivendell). It got stolen and I bought a 
Schwinn Varsity sport. This was just before the bike boom and people were 
puzzled by the strange dropped handlebars. Started riding with a local bike 
club that had been started by a local doctor who had been a cyclist for 
Sweden in the Olympics years earlier. By 1973 I had a Gitane Tour de France 
with Reynolds 531 frame, Campagnolo derailleurs and silk sew-up tires and 
had ridden my 1st Century. This was all in Daytona Beach and Ormond Beach.

Laing
On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:48:18 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 
>
> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the 
> flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 
>
> I was hooked, what hooked you? 
>
> Joe Bernard
>

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Re: [RBW] What made you a bikey?

[Steven Sweedler]

For me it was  seeing road cyclists out training on Whitney Ave. in Hamden
and New Haven, Ct. Most or all were on the Yale cycling team, and they
would wave to me when I was riding my Humber Clipper Grand Prix that I got
in 1964. Steve

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 4:48 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he
> and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial
> foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them
> later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist?
>
> Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the
> flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being
> stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on
> a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s.
> This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know
> that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was
> the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing,
> too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process!
>
> I was hooked, what hooked you?
>
> Joe Bernard
>
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] What made you a bikey?

[Joe Bernard]

Will has an interesting post in the the recent Riv Newsletter about how he 
and some friends first noticed bikes and got into them. After your initial 
foray as a kid with a bike, what was the thing that made you notice them 
later and turn you into an adult-person-cyclist? 

Mine is similar to Will's as a young man in Los Angeles, except it was the 
flashy riders in "tight clothes" I picked up on. I vividly recall being 
stopped on Pacific Coast Highway somewhere south of Long Beach (probably on 
a motorcycle) and watching all the roadies go by, this would be early '80s. 
This one guy went by on a green (actually celeste blue, but I didn't know 
that at the time) Bianchi with matching bar tape and riding gear. That was 
the moment I - a car and motorcycle nut - realized bicycles were a thing, 
too. A very cool thing, and you got a workout in the process! 

I was hooked, what hooked you? 

Joe Bernard

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[RBW] Re: i pinched seat tube putting on problem solvers brand front derailleur clamp

[Christopher Cote]

I don't know what you used for a torque wrench, but I find the click-type 
often need to be used a click or two after being set, before it will click 
over at the set torque. Internal sticktion or something like that. I like 
to set the torque wrench, and then test it on some bolt that I know is 
torqued way more than the current setting. The swingarm bolt on my DR650 
motorcycle is often used for this, but I'm sure you can find something 
handy if you don't have one of those in the shop.

Chris


On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 12:59:34 AM UTC-4 JP wrote:

> On unhealthy air days i've been playing around - trying out different 
> parts to see what happens and learn about maintenance.  
>
> I have a torque wrench but not a lot of experience with it.  When putting 
> on a braze on clamp adapter i made a little pinch in and seat tube and that 
> makes me a bit sad.The clamp said to use 4 NM and that's what i sent 
> the wrench at.
>
> It's a steel sam h. that will likely be fine - but any tips  to avoid this 
> type of damage going forward?
>
> (like i was thinking should i tighten slower or lubricate the clamp or 
> something?). 
>
> thanks in advance!
>
> JP
>

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[RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[Christopher Cote]

I've never had much long term success with silicone adhesives on metal. 
3M's whole business is making things to stick this to that. Their auto trim 
tape is made to stick metal do-dads to paint. It's the perfect product for 
reattaching a headbadge to a bike. A $5 roll is easily available and a 
lifetime supply.

Chris


On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 1:21:08 PM UTC-4 Scott McLain wrote:

> I am with Garth.  Silicone adhesive seams like it would be better than two 
> way tape/adhesive.  Just my $0.02.
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 8:33:57 AM UTC-6 Christopher Cote wrote:
>
>> I've had to reattach all the glued-on headbadges on my Riv bikes. I use 
>> 3M auto trim tape, available at auto parts stores, and of course at Amazon. 
>> Works perfectly, and comes in reasonably sized (and priced) rolls. I find 
>> many uses around the house and shop for the remainder of the roll. 
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 8:46:30 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:
>>
>>> My cheviot fell off my Cheviot. Thankfully, I saw it about to go and 
>>> grabbed it, sheepie is not sitting forlornly on the side of a road 
>>> somewhere. 
>>>
>>> I need to replace the double-sided sticky rubber thing they use to keep 
>>> the headbadges on. Anyone know what it is, or have a better solution? 
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] HUGE Rivendell archive update: Catalogs, flyers, brochures and more

[esoterica etc]

Eric,

Just another list member who's sending you heaps of thanks for taking this 
project on and sharing with the community. Thank you Thank You THANK YOU!!  
Cheers,

~Mark
Raleigh, NC


> On Sep 3, 2021, at 15:59, Olivier Chételat  wrote:
> 
> Much much impressive archiving work. Superthanks!
> -Oli in SF
> 
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-7 Benjamin Kelley wrote:
>> Even got a shoutout on the newsletter this week.
>> Excellent work!.
>> 
>> --ben in KC
>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 6:53 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>> I hope you all enjoy, these catalogs are really cool. Great wisdom and 
>>> writing, cool parts through the ages. Heartbreaking wool prices. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 5:36:06 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:
 Oh, this is great. Thank you, Eric!
 
 
 
 
> On Sep 2, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Eric Marth  wrote:
> 
> I've spent the last several months scanning my collection of Rivendell 
> catalogs, flyers, ads and brochures. 
> 
> Reed, who hosts the archive of Rivendell Readers at 
> http://notfine.com/rivreader/, kindly added all of my scans to the site. 
> Now there is quite a trove of Rivendell ephemera. 
> 
> He created a new link (the old one still works!): 
> http://notfine.com/rivendell/
> 
> Enjoy reading! All of the files are text searchable. If you have anything 
> that we haven't included please send me a DM. 
> 
> All 20 Rivendell catalogs
>  Catalogs from 1996-2018
> Frame brochures
> 1995 frames mailer
> Atlantis and Atlantis 2
> Rambouillet
> Romulus
> Rivendell Frame Brochure
> An early frame paint chart
> I'm missing the Cheviot brochure
> Flyers
> Nine flyers from 2002–2009
> I'm missing Hiawatha Holidays No. 1 
> Ads
> An add for the reader from Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
> A 2014 Cheviot ad
> 
> 
 
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>>> 
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Re: [RBW] HUGE Rivendell archive update: Catalogs, flyers, brochures and more

[Olivier Chételat]

Much much impressive archiving work. Superthanks!
-Oli in SF

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:26 AM UTC-7 Benjamin Kelley wrote:

> Even got a shoutout on the newsletter this week.
> Excellent work!.
>
> --ben in KC
>
> On Thu, Sep 2, 2021 at 6:53 PM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> I hope you all enjoy, these catalogs are really cool. Great wisdom and 
>> writing, cool parts through the ages. Heartbreaking wool prices. 
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_5960.JPG]
>>
>> On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 5:36:06 PM UTC-4 Matthew Williams wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, this is great. Thank you, Eric!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2021, at 10:08 AM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
>>> I've spent the last several months scanning my collection of Rivendell 
>>> catalogs, flyers, ads and brochures. 
>>>
>>> Reed, who hosts the archive of Rivendell Readers at 
>>> http://notfine.com/rivreader/, kindly added all of my scans to the 
>>> site. Now there is quite a trove of Rivendell ephemera. 
>>>
>>> He created a new link (the old one still works!): 
>>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/
>>>
>>> Enjoy reading! All of the files are text searchable. If you have 
>>> anything that we haven't included please send me a DM. 
>>>
>>>
>>>- All 20 Rivendell catalogs
>>>   -  Catalogs from 1996-2018
>>>- Frame brochures
>>>   - 1995 frames mailer
>>>   - Atlantis and Atlantis 2
>>>   - Rambouillet
>>>   - Romulus
>>>   - Rivendell Frame Brochure
>>>   - An early frame paint chart
>>>   - *I'm missing the Cheviot brochure*
>>>- Flyers
>>>   - Nine flyers from 2002–2009
>>>   - *I'm missing Hiawatha Holidays No. 1 *
>>>- Ads
>>>   - An add for the reader from Vintage Bicycle Quarterly
>>>   - A 2014 Cheviot ad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e1bbd2f0-4c63-4dce-86e4-46d0cb929453n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[lconley]

Varsity headbadges were attached with screws as were other Schwinns, 
including the Paramount. I used one of the screw holes to route my internal 
light wiring on my Paramount.

Laing


On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 11:31:42 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I made a head badge, etched with an ungrammatical Latin tag, for my second 
> comprehensive bike build/rebuild circa 1972 (complete strip, repaint, and 
> rebuild of Alvit Varsity), and am quite clear that I didn't drill and tap 
> holes for mounting screws (I was 16 or so and had never heard of such a 
> process) and I am even more sure that double sided tape was not offered. So 
> even Varsity headbadges must have been mounted with screws? Can anyone say?
>
> Note: The rehabb'd Varsity was a work of teenage art (black gloss, hand 
> pinstriped, half-stepped AW with Cyclo Benelux rd and single front ring, 
> whitewall tires, shiny silver aluminum fenders) but when I next fingered 
> one some 40+ years later I was shocked at what a dog it was. A very well 
> made and sturdy dog, but a true dog.
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
> wrote:
>
>> It was mentioned before, and I'll put my vote in for VHB tape (very high 
>> bond). Not a pro, so I can't make a pro tip, but as an enthusiastic 
>> amateur, let me recommend that you first stick it to the badge, carefully 
>> trim it back from the edge, and stick it, hopefully not upside down, 
>> because- very high bond.
>> -Kai
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[Patrick Moore]

I made a head badge, etched with an ungrammatical Latin tag, for my second
comprehensive bike build/rebuild circa 1972 (complete strip, repaint, and
rebuild of Alvit Varsity), and am quite clear that I didn't drill and tap
holes for mounting screws (I was 16 or so and had never heard of such a
process) and I am even more sure that double sided tape was not offered. So
even Varsity headbadges must have been mounted with screws? Can anyone say?

Note: The rehabb'd Varsity was a work of teenage art (black gloss, hand
pinstriped, half-stepped AW with Cyclo Benelux rd and single front ring,
whitewall tires, shiny silver aluminum fenders) but when I next fingered
one some 40+ years later I was shocked at what a dog it was. A very well
made and sturdy dog, but a true dog.

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 8:32 AM Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY <
kaiviers...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It was mentioned before, and I'll put my vote in for VHB tape (very high
> bond). Not a pro, so I can't make a pro tip, but as an enthusiastic
> amateur, let me recommend that you first stick it to the badge, carefully
> trim it back from the edge, and stick it, hopefully not upside down,
> because- very high bond.
> -Kai
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[rltilley]

GoPro uses the 3M VHB tape for their mounts so it should be plenty strong for 
most uses. I bought some of these for another project and they have held up 
well:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HLYCBRI?psc=1=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2021, at 7:33 AM, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY  
> wrote:
> 
> It was mentioned before, and I'll put my vote in for VHB tape (very high 
> bond). Not a pro, so I can't make a pro tip, but as an enthusiastic amateur, 
> let me recommend that you first stick it to the badge, carefully trim it back 
> from the edge, and stick it, hopefully not upside down, because- very high 
> bond.
> -Kai
> 
>> On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 3:28:32 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:
>> Thanks all I'll take a look at the options.
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 1:21:08 PM UTC-4 Scott McLain wrote:
>>> I am with Garth.  Silicone adhesive seams like it would be better than two 
>>> way tape/adhesive.  Just my $0.02.
>>> 
>>> 
 On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 8:33:57 AM UTC-6 Christopher Cote wrote:
 I've had to reattach all the glued-on headbadges on my Riv bikes. I use 3M 
 auto trim tape, available at auto parts stores, and of course at Amazon. 
 Works perfectly, and comes in reasonably sized (and priced) rolls. I find 
 many uses around the house and shop for the remainder of the roll. 
 
 Chris
 
 
> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 8:46:30 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:
> My cheviot fell off my Cheviot. Thankfully, I saw it about to go and 
> grabbed it, sheepie is not sitting forlornly on the side of a road 
> somewhere. 
> 
> I need to replace the double-sided sticky rubber thing they use to keep 
> the headbadges on. Anyone know what it is, or have a better solution? 
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB short extension, tall stack 31.8 quill stem

[sam . perez . 2002]

I have a nitto crust bj stem 31.8, feel free to reach out if interested.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Coal Bee Rye Anne  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kevin,
> 
> Not 100% what you seek, and this is not immediately available... however, IF 
> the following scenarios align it is possible I may have an alternative:
> 
> Velo Orange quill-to-threadless adapter and 60mm Dimension riser threadless 
> 31.8, 4 bolt stem (both silver.)  I'm 90% sure it's 60mm effective reach 
> based on last time I measured but don't think it's marked anywhere and I 
> picked this stem up in a trade.
> 
> This in the event you do not find exactly what you want and still do not wish 
> to spend $$$ on new (from Analog or elsewhere) AND if the 31.8 stem/shim/25.4 
> bar currently installed on my partner's bike proves to be a poor fit and 
> another swap is requested, thus freeing the stem to pair with the VO adapter 
> in my parts box. 
>  
> I'd previously used this combo with a Jones riser loop bar but have since set 
> the Jones bar aside and have no immediate use for the VO adapter otherwise.
> 
> I completely understand if this is an undesirable 'kludge' and you wish to 
> pass.  But should this be an option you need let me know and we could discuss 
> further.  I may be open to outright sale or trade.
> 
> Best,
> Brian Cole
> Lawrence NJ
> 
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-4 Kevin wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I know these are hard to find these days but I'm looking for. 60-70mm, 31.8 
>> quill stem with a good amount of stack. The Nitto ones sold by Riv would be 
>> great. Something like the Crust UI would as well. 
>> 
>> I'm using the 80mm VO one now and it's workable, but just a touch longer 
>> than ideal. I know Analog sells one, but  $200 stem for a marginal fit 
>> upgrade is a hard pill to swallow.
>> 
>> I have cranks, bars, tires, other stems to trade if that interests you more 
>> than US dollars.
>> 
>> Thanks.
> 
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[RBW] Re: WTB short extension, tall stack 31.8 quill stem

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi Kevin,

Not 100% what you seek, and this is not immediately available... however, 
IF the following scenarios align it is possible I may have an alternative:

Velo Orange quill-to-threadless adapter and 60mm Dimension riser threadless 
31.8, 4 bolt stem (both silver.)  I'm 90% sure it's 60mm effective reach 
based on last time I measured but don't think it's marked anywhere and I 
picked this stem up in a trade.

This in the event you do not find exactly what you want and still do not 
wish to spend $$$ on new (from Analog or elsewhere) AND if the 31.8 
stem/shim/25.4 bar currently installed on my partner's bike proves to be a 
poor fit and another swap is requested, thus freeing the stem to pair with 
the VO adapter in my parts box. 
 
I'd previously used this combo with a Jones riser loop bar but have since 
set the Jones bar aside and have no immediate use for the VO adapter 
otherwise.

I completely understand if this is an undesirable 'kludge' and you wish to 
pass.  But should this be an option you need let me know and we could 
discuss further.  I may be open to outright sale or trade.

Best,
Brian Cole
Lawrence NJ

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-4 Kevin wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I know these are hard to find these days but I'm looking for. 60-70mm, 
> 31.8 quill stem with a good amount of stack. The Nitto ones sold by Riv 
> would be great. Something like the Crust UI would as well. 
>
> I'm using the 80mm VO one now and it's workable, but just a touch longer 
> than ideal. I know Analog sells one, but  $200 stem for a marginal fit 
> upgrade is a hard pill to swallow.
>
> I have cranks, bars, tires, other stems to trade if that interests you 
> more than US dollars.
>
> Thanks.
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB short extension, tall stack 31.8 quill stem

[Garth]

You may be better off for now using a Genetic brand quill stem adapter and 
and  the threadless stem extension you need.  If you must have that certain 
road stem look, then of course forget about this ! 

Something like this for example 

https://www.nashbar.com/genetic-stem-quill-adapter-1-to-11-8-smgeq1s/p-ruazqzwazqaeyaa2
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomson-Elite-X4-Mountain-Bike-Stem-70mm-31-8mm-Silver-10d-SM-E109-SL-/294343661516?




On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 1:05:49 PM UTC-4 Kevin wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I know these are hard to find these days but I'm looking for. 60-70mm, 
> 31.8 quill stem with a good amount of stack. The Nitto ones sold by Riv 
> would be great. Something like the Crust UI would as well. 
>
> I'm using the 80mm VO one now and it's workable, but just a touch longer 
> than ideal. I know Analog sells one, but  $200 stem for a marginal fit 
> upgrade is a hard pill to swallow.
>
> I have cranks, bars, tires, other stems to trade if that interests you 
> more than US dollars.
>
> Thanks.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: i pinched seat tube putting on problem solvers brand front derailleur clamp

[JP]

Thanks again all - so far i've had very positive experiences taking apart 
and redoing this bike (i wanted lower gearing and changing the crank and BB 
magically did that) I feel like while a bike that comes new from Riv is 
built up much more cleanly and proficiently than I would do - there becomes 
a crossover point where the ability to readjust things and replace the odd 
thing leaves me with a better riding bike than something I'm too scared to 
touch.

This is the first bruise - and i feel like i can reduce the risk better in 
the future - even though i have a nice clicky, but non-moving-scale 3-6 NM 
wrench for the job, i probably wouldn't have overtightened if i would have 
just use my own feel.   I was worried about under tightening and then the 
cable pulling the clamp screech down the tube at the other extreme.

Finally I can't see any reason to blame the part per se (the 28.6 problem 
solvers clamp) which was another of my concerns!

Best,

JP

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:40:01 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:

> Good comments.  Another thing about torque wrenches - IIRC, the ones with 
> the moving indicator-needle-along-a-scale (not the ones that "click" when 
> target torque is achieved), need to be held in a specific way with one's 
> index finger on the wrench arm as a nut or bolt is tightened or you'll get 
> an inaccurate reading.  At least, that's what a mechanic told me once.
>
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:19:57 AM UTC-5 thoma...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> This is maybe the biggest downside about torque specs is that it's easy 
>> to lose the natural "hey, I wonder if this is tight enough?" instinct and 
>> go straight to "well it says put it at 9Nm so *crack*!"
>>
>> Firstly, the published torque for clamps is not a "target number" to hit, 
>> but actually a maximum. The object being clamped will also have a maximum 
>> value, and for a thin-walled butted seat tube, it may well be less than 
>> 4Nm. For front derailleurs, just tighten until it gets snug and give it 
>> another 1/4-1/2 turn. It should be completely immobile and very easy to 
>> tighten down using the short end of an allen key or p-handle wrench. If you 
>> have to use a long arm to torque a derailleur band, it's likely that 
>> something bad is happening. Don't lubricate the clamp because that will 
>> require more clamping force to resist moving, but you can grease the 
>> threads of the bolt.
>>
>> The good news is that there are millions of steel bikes out there with 
>> slight dimples on their seat tube from front derailleur clamps and they're 
>> completely fine. I have a frame with *two* dimples because the 
>> Incredible Hulk installed the derailleur too high or too low the first 
>> time. It's also nearly impossible to detect those dimples unless you're 
>> specifically looking and feeling for them, so you'll likely forget they're 
>> even there in a year or two.
>>
>> This may get me some push back (although perhaps not from this crowd) but 
>> I generally do not use a torque wrench on anything involving a metal to 
>> metal interface with a few exceptions (Shimano HT crank pinch bolts being 
>> the most common). With things that are common on Riv bikes like quill stems 
>> and threaded headsets, most of these components were designed before every 
>> mechanic had access to a torque wrench and have no meaningful torque spec 
>> because the limiting factor is rarely the stem and more often the steerer 
>> that fails. These components, and square taper cranks, just need to be 
>> torqued *a lot* but not too much, and finding that by hand is pretty 
>> easy if you go slow, evaluate what you're doing and the effect as you go, 
>> and don't use a wrench that is too big for the job!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Thomas in Portland, OR
>>
>> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:40:46 AM UTC-7 David Hallerman wrote:
>>
>>> Dunno about 4Nm being quite a lot. Just earlier this week I installed a 
>>> new, early 21st century Campagnolo front derailleur. And the multi-language 
>>> instruction sheet put 5Nm as the target torque for the clamp.
>>>
>>> Dave, who prefers Nm over the other torque metrics because hey Isaac 
>>> Newton
>>> + + +
>>> Hudson Valley NY
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:26 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>>
 That surprises me. I've been fitting band-on front derailleurs for 
 about half a century, and can't recall ever even damaging paintwork, let 
 alone denting a seat tube. Mind you, 4Nm is quite a lot - I'm rather 
 surprised that the marked setting would be that high. I've never used a 
 torque wrench on an FD clamp when assembling a bike, but it doesn't need 
 anything like that much force applied to the pinch bolt to hold the 
 derailleur in place. After all, the handlebar clamp bolts on threadless 
 stems are usually marked as 5Nm; that's sufficient to hold the handlebars 
 in place, and the rotational force on a drop handlebar when you've got 
 your 
 weight out 

[RBW] WTB short extension, tall stack 31.8 quill stem

[Kevin]

Hi all,

I know these are hard to find these days but I'm looking for. 60-70mm, 31.8 
quill stem with a good amount of stack. The Nitto ones sold by Riv would be 
great. Something like the Crust UI would as well. 

I'm using the 80mm VO one now and it's workable, but just a touch longer 
than ideal. I know Analog sells one, but  $200 stem for a marginal fit 
upgrade is a hard pill to swallow.

I have cranks, bars, tires, other stems to trade if that interests you more 
than US dollars.

Thanks.

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[RBW] Re: New Wheels for Clem; need advice

[Johnny Alien]

I'm a huge fan of the Pacenti wheelsets. Affordable, light and well built.

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 9:38:55 AM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Hi Joyce
>
> Lighter tires would be a good first start for the Clem , as Ray mentioned. 
> If you're interested in high-quality handbuilt wheels such as Joe 
> mentioned...very nice BTW; I had some built for my Riv mixte...I'd use 
> those wheels on your Platy..which is your "fun" bike, whereas the Clem is 
> your utility bike...or, depending on what you have on the Platy, swap those 
> over to the Clem and put the fancy new wheels on the Platypus. I'm assuming 
> both bikes are 650B.
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:14:56 AM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
>> I had started with a stock complete Clem (65cm 'H' style.)
>> I've since swapped out saddle/bars/stem/grips/tires and 
>> added/removed/added different racks.
>>
>> Saddle is now a vintage B-72(scavenged from a Raleigh Sports) with 
>> Breezer double rail adapter on the stock seat-post.
>> - I've also since picked up a seatpost shim so I could eventually use any 
>> 27.2 post (likely a 2-bolt post since I much prefer the ease of angle 
>> adjustability and less chance of slipping vs. single post post (i've had 
>> saddles slip on micro-adjust single bolts, admittedly rare and not enough 
>> to be a huge concern, bit it's happened and annoying.)
>> Bars/stem = Riv Bullmoose with some Ergon style grips I picked up from a 
>> local shop 'take-off bin.'
>> Tires = Continental MountainKing since I wanted something with more 
>> tread/grip in loose local gravel.
>>
>> At the time when they announced the pre-order for the huge 65cm size I 
>> opted for the complete since I'd still have needed a set of wheels/tires 
>> and a couple other bits to make a complete combined with spare parts I had 
>> on hand so the value was in the ready-to-ride complete aspect, not having 
>> to think much about this or that, or the ultimate expense of individual 
>> parts purchases that would likely either meet or exceed the cost of the 
>> complete.
>>
>> Obviously it wasn't long before I started tinkering with it but I'm still 
>> riding the stock wheels and drivetrain, despite swapping out much of the 
>> rest.  Stock bosco bars and stem were traded away long ago but I still have 
>> the stock saddle and grips around for other bikes.
>>
>> The multicolored spokes are one of my favorite details, though this 
>> hasn't exactly influenced much in regard to decisions around the purchase 
>> or ugrades.  My only real issue with the stock wheelset was the rear 
>> non-drive size rubber dust cover for the hub... it would squeak like crazy 
>> rubbing somewhere so I just removed it.  This will certainly lead to 
>> earlier bearing wear I'm sure but I'd rather wear out the hub faster 
>> without the annoying squeaks and this'll just give me an excuse to ponder 
>> the same questions around what wheels/hubs to use next!
>>
>> I've debated converting to single speed for a bit with a Paul Melvin 
>> tensioner I have set aside once the drivetrain wears out a bit more and/or 
>> I finally get completely sick of the occasional ghost shifting with the 
>> stock Sunrace shifters.
>> I've also debated moving to an index 12-36 9speed with 
>> shifter/cassette/derailer left over from a prior build that has since been 
>> put back in reserve but this might end up on one of my wife's bikes instead 
>> (waiting on final verdict on some bars to determine final shifting solution 
>> vs. current downtube shifters.)
>>
>> On my shortlist for replacement wheels is the new Velo Orange Voyager 
>> wheels.  Mostly for the range of adaptability 
>> (rim/disc/tube/tubeless/38mm-2"+ tire sizes/QR/Thru-axle/etc.)  Not sure of 
>> any weight savings but more thinking it'll be one wheelset I could adapt to 
>> just about anything (I could see myself ending up with) since I still 
>> occasionally like to try something different though I am trying to simplify 
>> things so this consideration may ultimately be an over indulgence if 
>> nothing else.
>>
>> Clem is absolutely my biggest bike, but not sure if the heaviest in it's 
>> current state vs. my current regular rider = an old Raleigh 700c 
>> conversion(long story how this thing evolved) with beefy 48spoke single 
>> speed wheels, rack/basket, removable rear child seat, etc.
>>
>> I honestly don't even think much about Clem's weight except for when 
>> lugging in/out the front door (no garage!) and even then it's size is the 
>> greater obstacle.  In fact, it's size is what has regrettably moved it into 
>> storage for a while so it's not even getting the miles it deserves.  
>> Between limited storage space and a single detail that made it not work 
>> with the rear child seat we already have I've had to choose another bike as 
>> my primary.
>>
>> I have 2 complete single speeds stored in house, then my Clem and 2 
>> other, old, spare frames plus parts in storage/reserve.
>>
>> None of this really offers any 

[RBW] Re: 2020 Appaloosa Paint

[Pancake]

*I think I remember a video of Mark or Grant (found it here) 
 doing a repair like this: 
light blue frame that gets chips filled with blobs of red nail polish.* This 
is a "visible mending" repair which is awesome and becoming a style of 
sorts (more for clothing, see the last paragraph below). 

The only larger paint resource for Rivendells seems to be 
here: http://www.cyclofiend.com/rbw/color.html (referenced by Rivbike 
here: https://www.rivbike.com/pages/frame-colors-frame-colors)
And it does not have a particular color for Appaloosa's. 

That said, I have tried color matching on a few bikes by rolling it into a 
hobby shop and picking 2 or 3 testors colors then mixing and matching 
knowing that it won't quite be right. Always looks great from 6' away, easy 
to notice from 1' away. Worked GREAT on a Cheviot (orange) and just okay on 
a Hillborne (gray-blue). 

If you do your own paint repair with nail polish or testors paint, then I 
strongly recommend:
(1) fill the chip with thin layers of paint until it is just proud of the 
surface of the original paint. In other words, make that little paint blog 
that is too tall.
(2) Reduce it to level with the original paint using some mineral oil on a 
cloth that doesn't lose any threads - I use a credit card to give the cloth 
some consistent pressure to keep the paint smooth. This is more art than 
science. If you go completely wrong then just use a little more mineral oil 
to remove all the fresh paint and start over. 
This is better described by a company that sells what appears to be very 
expensive mineral oil:
http://www.langka.com/index.php/2013-01-31-22-19-00/2013-01-31-22-22-24/9-instructions/9-scratchesmethod1theoriginalmethod-drymethod

"*Visible mending" repairs are awesome*: 
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/style/visible-mending.html. 
>From that article: "Showing off your patches, visible menders say, draws 
attention to the way a garment’s life span has been extended. It also 
subverts the notion, long held, that mended clothes are worn by the poor, 
while the height of luxury is buying a new wardrobe every season. 'We’re 
saying the opposite with our mended clothes,' Ms. Sekules said. 'The pride 
in the look of a mended thing, that’s pretty recent. That’s now.' "

Visible repairs show off that you use your bike while maybe acting as a 
minor theft deterrent, all good stuff. 

Stickers over chips also work nicely. 

Take care,
Abe


On Friday, 3 September 2021 at 09:13:41 UTC-7 André P wrote:

> I'm personally a fan of just doing clear nail polish to cover scratches as 
> it keeps it rust free and lets you not worry so much about the next time it 
> gets scratched.
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:46:57 AM UTC-7 David Hays wrote:
>
>> I foolishly forgot to set he limiting screws o the front derailleur of my 
>> orange 2020 Appaloosa before loaning it to my nephew to ride with me. He 
>> shifter beyond the small ring dropping the chain that wedged between the 
>> crank and the chain stay. My fault. Darn. 
>> Later at home I pulled the drive side releasing the chain and discovered 
>> a large gouge in the chain stay. Does anybody have an idea of the best 
>> Testor's or other match for the 2020 orange to touch it up and prevent 
>> rust? It's behind the smallest wheel of the crank so barely visible but I 
>> certainly don't want to neglect it.
>> Thanks.
>> David in Buffalo, New York
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 2020 Appaloosa Paint

[André P]

I'm personally a fan of just doing clear nail polish to cover scratches as 
it keeps it rust free and lets you not worry so much about the next time it 
gets scratched.

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:46:57 AM UTC-7 David Hays wrote:

> I foolishly forgot to set he limiting screws o the front derailleur of my 
> orange 2020 Appaloosa before loaning it to my nephew to ride with me. He 
> shifter beyond the small ring dropping the chain that wedged between the 
> crank and the chain stay. My fault. Darn. 
> Later at home I pulled the drive side releasing the chain and discovered a 
> large gouge in the chain stay. Does anybody have an idea of the best 
> Testor's or other match for the 2020 orange to touch it up and prevent 
> rust? It's behind the smallest wheel of the crank so barely visible but I 
> certainly don't want to neglect it.
> Thanks.
> David in Buffalo, New York
>

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[RBW] 2020 Appaloosa Paint

[David Hays]

I foolishly forgot to set he limiting screws o the front derailleur of my 
orange 2020 Appaloosa before loaning it to my nephew to ride with me. He 
shifter beyond the small ring dropping the chain that wedged between the 
crank and the chain stay. My fault. Darn. 
Later at home I pulled the drive side releasing the chain and discovered a 
large gouge in the chain stay. Does anybody have an idea of the best 
Testor's or other match for the 2020 orange to touch it up and prevent 
rust? It's behind the smallest wheel of the crank so barely visible but I 
certainly don't want to neglect it.
Thanks.
David in Buffalo, New York

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Re: [RBW] Re: i pinched seat tube putting on problem solvers brand front derailleur clamp

[George Schick]

Good comments.  Another thing about torque wrenches - IIRC, the ones with 
the moving indicator-needle-along-a-scale (not the ones that "click" when 
target torque is achieved), need to be held in a specific way with one's 
index finger on the wrench arm as a nut or bolt is tightened or you'll get 
an inaccurate reading.  At least, that's what a mechanic told me once.


On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 10:19:57 AM UTC-5 thoma...@gmail.com wrote:

> This is maybe the biggest downside about torque specs is that it's easy to 
> lose the natural "hey, I wonder if this is tight enough?" instinct and go 
> straight to "well it says put it at 9Nm so *crack*!"
>
> Firstly, the published torque for clamps is not a "target number" to hit, 
> but actually a maximum. The object being clamped will also have a maximum 
> value, and for a thin-walled butted seat tube, it may well be less than 
> 4Nm. For front derailleurs, just tighten until it gets snug and give it 
> another 1/4-1/2 turn. It should be completely immobile and very easy to 
> tighten down using the short end of an allen key or p-handle wrench. If you 
> have to use a long arm to torque a derailleur band, it's likely that 
> something bad is happening. Don't lubricate the clamp because that will 
> require more clamping force to resist moving, but you can grease the 
> threads of the bolt.
>
> The good news is that there are millions of steel bikes out there with 
> slight dimples on their seat tube from front derailleur clamps and they're 
> completely fine. I have a frame with *two* dimples because the Incredible 
> Hulk installed the derailleur too high or too low the first time. It's also 
> nearly impossible to detect those dimples unless you're specifically 
> looking and feeling for them, so you'll likely forget they're even there in 
> a year or two.
>
> This may get me some push back (although perhaps not from this crowd) but 
> I generally do not use a torque wrench on anything involving a metal to 
> metal interface with a few exceptions (Shimano HT crank pinch bolts being 
> the most common). With things that are common on Riv bikes like quill stems 
> and threaded headsets, most of these components were designed before every 
> mechanic had access to a torque wrench and have no meaningful torque spec 
> because the limiting factor is rarely the stem and more often the steerer 
> that fails. These components, and square taper cranks, just need to be 
> torqued *a lot* but not too much, and finding that by hand is pretty easy 
> if you go slow, evaluate what you're doing and the effect as you go, and 
> don't use a wrench that is too big for the job!
>
> Cheers,
> Thomas in Portland, OR
>
> On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:40:46 AM UTC-7 David Hallerman wrote:
>
>> Dunno about 4Nm being quite a lot. Just earlier this week I installed a 
>> new, early 21st century Campagnolo front derailleur. And the multi-language 
>> instruction sheet put 5Nm as the target torque for the clamp.
>>
>> Dave, who prefers Nm over the other torque metrics because hey Isaac 
>> Newton
>> + + +
>> Hudson Valley NY
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:26 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>>
>>> That surprises me. I've been fitting band-on front derailleurs for about 
>>> half a century, and can't recall ever even damaging paintwork, let alone 
>>> denting a seat tube. Mind you, 4Nm is quite a lot - I'm rather surprised 
>>> that the marked setting would be that high. I've never used a torque wrench 
>>> on an FD clamp when assembling a bike, but it doesn't need anything like 
>>> that much force applied to the pinch bolt to hold the derailleur in place. 
>>> After all, the handlebar clamp bolts on threadless stems are usually marked 
>>> as 5Nm; that's sufficient to hold the handlebars in place, and the 
>>> rotational force on a drop handlebar when you've got your weight out on the 
>>> brake hoods is many times greater than that on an FD.
>>>
>>> The other possible problem might be your torque wrench. If it's a torque 
>>> wrench that goes up to 25Nm or 30Nm, then it's quite likely to have 
>>> substantial error at low settings.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a89596aa-d20a-4f20-a64a-72ec0db5c4dbn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: i pinched seat tube putting on problem solvers brand front derailleur clamp

[Thomas Lawn]

This is maybe the biggest downside about torque specs is that it's easy to 
lose the natural "hey, I wonder if this is tight enough?" instinct and go 
straight to "well it says put it at 9Nm so *crack*!"

Firstly, the published torque for clamps is not a "target number" to hit, 
but actually a maximum. The object being clamped will also have a maximum 
value, and for a thin-walled butted seat tube, it may well be less than 
4Nm. For front derailleurs, just tighten until it gets snug and give it 
another 1/4-1/2 turn. It should be completely immobile and very easy to 
tighten down using the short end of an allen key or p-handle wrench. If you 
have to use a long arm to torque a derailleur band, it's likely that 
something bad is happening. Don't lubricate the clamp because that will 
require more clamping force to resist moving, but you can grease the 
threads of the bolt.

The good news is that there are millions of steel bikes out there with 
slight dimples on their seat tube from front derailleur clamps and they're 
completely fine. I have a frame with *two* dimples because the Incredible 
Hulk installed the derailleur too high or too low the first time. It's also 
nearly impossible to detect those dimples unless you're specifically 
looking and feeling for them, so you'll likely forget they're even there in 
a year or two.

This may get me some push back (although perhaps not from this crowd) but I 
generally do not use a torque wrench on anything involving a metal to metal 
interface with a few exceptions (Shimano HT crank pinch bolts being the 
most common). With things that are common on Riv bikes like quill stems and 
threaded headsets, most of these components were designed before every 
mechanic had access to a torque wrench and have no meaningful torque spec 
because the limiting factor is rarely the stem and more often the steerer 
that fails. These components, and square taper cranks, just need to be 
torqued *a lot* but not too much, and finding that by hand is pretty easy 
if you go slow, evaluate what you're doing and the effect as you go, and 
don't use a wrench that is too big for the job!

Cheers,
Thomas in Portland, OR

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 3:40:46 AM UTC-7 David Hallerman wrote:

> Dunno about 4Nm being quite a lot. Just earlier this week I installed a 
> new, early 21st century Campagnolo front derailleur. And the multi-language 
> instruction sheet put 5Nm as the target torque for the clamp.
>
> Dave, who prefers Nm over the other torque metrics because hey Isaac Newton
> + + +
> Hudson Valley NY
>
> On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:26 AM Nick Payne  wrote:
>
>> That surprises me. I've been fitting band-on front derailleurs for about 
>> half a century, and can't recall ever even damaging paintwork, let alone 
>> denting a seat tube. Mind you, 4Nm is quite a lot - I'm rather surprised 
>> that the marked setting would be that high. I've never used a torque wrench 
>> on an FD clamp when assembling a bike, but it doesn't need anything like 
>> that much force applied to the pinch bolt to hold the derailleur in place. 
>> After all, the handlebar clamp bolts on threadless stems are usually marked 
>> as 5Nm; that's sufficient to hold the handlebars in place, and the 
>> rotational force on a drop handlebar when you've got your weight out on the 
>> brake hoods is many times greater than that on an FD.
>>
>> The other possible problem might be your torque wrench. If it's a torque 
>> wrench that goes up to 25Nm or 30Nm, then it's quite likely to have 
>> substantial error at low settings.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a89596aa-d20a-4f20-a64a-72ec0db5c4dbn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bikes on eBay, CraigsLIst, and Other Sites

[Thomas Lawn]

57cm Roadeo frameset on Ebay with minor damage: 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/294373021638

No relation to seller, but from the description of the damage this should 
be inconsequential. Bid is at $400 + $100 shipping from Auburn, CA as of 
writing.

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 10:57:48 AM UTC-7 Matthew Williams wrote:

> SimpleOne
> 56cm
> $1200
> Athens, GA
>
> https://athensga.craigslist.org/bik/d/athens-rivendell-simple-one/7374452894.html
>
>
> Sam Hillborne
> 62cm
> $2000
> Petaluma, CA
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/petaluma-62cm-sam-hillborne-new/7374660880.html

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[RBW] Re: sticky thing for keeping headbadge on bike

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

It was mentioned before, and I'll put my vote in for VHB tape (very high 
bond). Not a pro, so I can't make a pro tip, but as an enthusiastic 
amateur, let me recommend that you first stick it to the badge, carefully 
trim it back from the edge, and stick it, hopefully not upside down, 
because- very high bond.
-Kai

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 3:28:32 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:

> Thanks all I'll take a look at the options.
>
> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 1:21:08 PM UTC-4 Scott McLain wrote:
>
>> I am with Garth.  Silicone adhesive seams like it would be better than 
>> two way tape/adhesive.  Just my $0.02.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 1, 2021 at 8:33:57 AM UTC-6 Christopher Cote 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've had to reattach all the glued-on headbadges on my Riv bikes. I use 
>>> 3M auto trim tape, available at auto parts stores, and of course at Amazon. 
>>> Works perfectly, and comes in reasonably sized (and priced) rolls. I find 
>>> many uses around the house and shop for the remainder of the roll. 
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 31, 2021 at 8:46:30 PM UTC-4 Yankeebird wrote:
>>>
 My cheviot fell off my Cheviot. Thankfully, I saw it about to go and 
 grabbed it, sheepie is not sitting forlornly on the side of a road 
 somewhere. 

 I need to replace the double-sided sticky rubber thing they use to keep 
 the headbadges on. Anyone know what it is, or have a better solution? 

>>>

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[RBW] Re: New Wheels for Clem; need advice

[Ryan]

Hi Joyce

Lighter tires would be a good first start for the Clem , as Ray mentioned. 
If you're interested in high-quality handbuilt wheels such as Joe 
mentioned...very nice BTW; I had some built for my Riv mixte...I'd use 
those wheels on your Platy..which is your "fun" bike, whereas the Clem is 
your utility bike...or, depending on what you have on the Platy, swap those 
over to the Clem and put the fancy new wheels on the Platypus. I'm assuming 
both bikes are 650B.

On Friday, September 3, 2021 at 8:14:56 AM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> I had started with a stock complete Clem (65cm 'H' style.)
> I've since swapped out saddle/bars/stem/grips/tires and 
> added/removed/added different racks.
>
> Saddle is now a vintage B-72(scavenged from a Raleigh Sports) with Breezer 
> double rail adapter on the stock seat-post.
> - I've also since picked up a seatpost shim so I could eventually use any 
> 27.2 post (likely a 2-bolt post since I much prefer the ease of angle 
> adjustability and less chance of slipping vs. single post post (i've had 
> saddles slip on micro-adjust single bolts, admittedly rare and not enough 
> to be a huge concern, bit it's happened and annoying.)
> Bars/stem = Riv Bullmoose with some Ergon style grips I picked up from a 
> local shop 'take-off bin.'
> Tires = Continental MountainKing since I wanted something with more 
> tread/grip in loose local gravel.
>
> At the time when they announced the pre-order for the huge 65cm size I 
> opted for the complete since I'd still have needed a set of wheels/tires 
> and a couple other bits to make a complete combined with spare parts I had 
> on hand so the value was in the ready-to-ride complete aspect, not having 
> to think much about this or that, or the ultimate expense of individual 
> parts purchases that would likely either meet or exceed the cost of the 
> complete.
>
> Obviously it wasn't long before I started tinkering with it but I'm still 
> riding the stock wheels and drivetrain, despite swapping out much of the 
> rest.  Stock bosco bars and stem were traded away long ago but I still have 
> the stock saddle and grips around for other bikes.
>
> The multicolored spokes are one of my favorite details, though this hasn't 
> exactly influenced much in regard to decisions around the purchase or 
> ugrades.  My only real issue with the stock wheelset was the rear non-drive 
> size rubber dust cover for the hub... it would squeak like crazy rubbing 
> somewhere so I just removed it.  This will certainly lead to earlier 
> bearing wear I'm sure but I'd rather wear out the hub faster without the 
> annoying squeaks and this'll just give me an excuse to ponder the same 
> questions around what wheels/hubs to use next!
>
> I've debated converting to single speed for a bit with a Paul Melvin 
> tensioner I have set aside once the drivetrain wears out a bit more and/or 
> I finally get completely sick of the occasional ghost shifting with the 
> stock Sunrace shifters.
> I've also debated moving to an index 12-36 9speed with 
> shifter/cassette/derailer left over from a prior build that has since been 
> put back in reserve but this might end up on one of my wife's bikes instead 
> (waiting on final verdict on some bars to determine final shifting solution 
> vs. current downtube shifters.)
>
> On my shortlist for replacement wheels is the new Velo Orange Voyager 
> wheels.  Mostly for the range of adaptability 
> (rim/disc/tube/tubeless/38mm-2"+ tire sizes/QR/Thru-axle/etc.)  Not sure of 
> any weight savings but more thinking it'll be one wheelset I could adapt to 
> just about anything (I could see myself ending up with) since I still 
> occasionally like to try something different though I am trying to simplify 
> things so this consideration may ultimately be an over indulgence if 
> nothing else.
>
> Clem is absolutely my biggest bike, but not sure if the heaviest in it's 
> current state vs. my current regular rider = an old Raleigh 700c 
> conversion(long story how this thing evolved) with beefy 48spoke single 
> speed wheels, rack/basket, removable rear child seat, etc.
>
> I honestly don't even think much about Clem's weight except for when 
> lugging in/out the front door (no garage!) and even then it's size is the 
> greater obstacle.  In fact, it's size is what has regrettably moved it into 
> storage for a while so it's not even getting the miles it deserves.  
> Between limited storage space and a single detail that made it not work 
> with the rear child seat we already have I've had to choose another bike as 
> my primary.
>
> I have 2 complete single speeds stored in house, then my Clem and 2 other, 
> old, spare frames plus parts in storage/reserve.
>
> None of this really offers any direct solutions or recommendations to your 
> situation (and the Voyager wheels likely aren't what you are after) but 
> thought I'd take the opportunity to share some of my own Clem-evolution.
>
> Best,
> Brian Cole
> Lawrence NJ
>

[RBW] Re: New Wheels for Clem; need advice

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I had started with a stock complete Clem (65cm 'H' style.)
I've since swapped out saddle/bars/stem/grips/tires and added/removed/added 
different racks.

Saddle is now a vintage B-72(scavenged from a Raleigh Sports) with Breezer 
double rail adapter on the stock seat-post.
- I've also since picked up a seatpost shim so I could eventually use any 
27.2 post (likely a 2-bolt post since I much prefer the ease of angle 
adjustability and less chance of slipping vs. single post post (i've had 
saddles slip on micro-adjust single bolts, admittedly rare and not enough 
to be a huge concern, bit it's happened and annoying.)
Bars/stem = Riv Bullmoose with some Ergon style grips I picked up from a 
local shop 'take-off bin.'
Tires = Continental MountainKing since I wanted something with more 
tread/grip in loose local gravel.

At the time when they announced the pre-order for the huge 65cm size I 
opted for the complete since I'd still have needed a set of wheels/tires 
and a couple other bits to make a complete combined with spare parts I had 
on hand so the value was in the ready-to-ride complete aspect, not having 
to think much about this or that, or the ultimate expense of individual 
parts purchases that would likely either meet or exceed the cost of the 
complete.

Obviously it wasn't long before I started tinkering with it but I'm still 
riding the stock wheels and drivetrain, despite swapping out much of the 
rest.  Stock bosco bars and stem were traded away long ago but I still have 
the stock saddle and grips around for other bikes.

The multicolored spokes are one of my favorite details, though this hasn't 
exactly influenced much in regard to decisions around the purchase or 
ugrades.  My only real issue with the stock wheelset was the rear non-drive 
size rubber dust cover for the hub... it would squeak like crazy rubbing 
somewhere so I just removed it.  This will certainly lead to earlier 
bearing wear I'm sure but I'd rather wear out the hub faster without the 
annoying squeaks and this'll just give me an excuse to ponder the same 
questions around what wheels/hubs to use next!

I've debated converting to single speed for a bit with a Paul Melvin 
tensioner I have set aside once the drivetrain wears out a bit more and/or 
I finally get completely sick of the occasional ghost shifting with the 
stock Sunrace shifters.
I've also debated moving to an index 12-36 9speed with 
shifter/cassette/derailer left over from a prior build that has since been 
put back in reserve but this might end up on one of my wife's bikes instead 
(waiting on final verdict on some bars to determine final shifting solution 
vs. current downtube shifters.)

On my shortlist for replacement wheels is the new Velo Orange Voyager 
wheels.  Mostly for the range of adaptability 
(rim/disc/tube/tubeless/38mm-2"+ tire sizes/QR/Thru-axle/etc.)  Not sure of 
any weight savings but more thinking it'll be one wheelset I could adapt to 
just about anything (I could see myself ending up with) since I still 
occasionally like to try something different though I am trying to simplify 
things so this consideration may ultimately be an over indulgence if 
nothing else.

Clem is absolutely my biggest bike, but not sure if the heaviest in it's 
current state vs. my current regular rider = an old Raleigh 700c 
conversion(long story how this thing evolved) with beefy 48spoke single 
speed wheels, rack/basket, removable rear child seat, etc.

I honestly don't even think much about Clem's weight except for when 
lugging in/out the front door (no garage!) and even then it's size is the 
greater obstacle.  In fact, it's size is what has regrettably moved it into 
storage for a while so it's not even getting the miles it deserves.  
Between limited storage space and a single detail that made it not work 
with the rear child seat we already have I've had to choose another bike as 
my primary.

I have 2 complete single speeds stored in house, then my Clem and 2 other, 
old, spare frames plus parts in storage/reserve.

None of this really offers any direct solutions or recommendations to your 
situation (and the Voyager wheels likely aren't what you are after) but 
thought I'd take the opportunity to share some of my own Clem-evolution.

Best,
Brian Cole
Lawrence NJ

On Thursday, September 2, 2021 at 11:15:17 PM UTC-4 Ray Varella wrote:

>
> Joyce,
> I wouldn’t talk you out of wheels, I think nice hand built wheels with 
> carefully chosen parts are a very worthwhile investment that will last for 
> many miles. 
> I would suggest that while you are wading through a lot of information 
> about your “great” wheels, you try some lighter tires. 
> There are numerous really great tires out there these days. 
> I’m building up a Clem right now and used the majority of parts I already 
> owned. Mine feels reasonably unfettered. 
> I’ll get some miles on it this week and next. 
> I had some Schwalbe G-Ones, the fast, light ones they use for beach 
> racing, they 

Re: [RBW] Re: i pinched seat tube putting on problem solvers brand front derailleur clamp

[David Hallerman]

Dunno about 4Nm being quite a lot. Just earlier this week I installed a
new, early 21st century Campagnolo front derailleur. And the multi-language
instruction sheet put 5Nm as the target torque for the clamp.

Dave, who prefers Nm over the other torque metrics because hey Isaac Newton
+ + +
Hudson Valley NY

On Fri, Sep 3, 2021 at 5:26 AM Nick Payne  wrote:

> That surprises me. I've been fitting band-on front derailleurs for about
> half a century, and can't recall ever even damaging paintwork, let alone
> denting a seat tube. Mind you, 4Nm is quite a lot - I'm rather surprised
> that the marked setting would be that high. I've never used a torque wrench
> on an FD clamp when assembling a bike, but it doesn't need anything like
> that much force applied to the pinch bolt to hold the derailleur in place.
> After all, the handlebar clamp bolts on threadless stems are usually marked
> as 5Nm; that's sufficient to hold the handlebars in place, and the
> rotational force on a drop handlebar when you've got your weight out on the
> brake hoods is many times greater than that on an FD.
>
> The other possible problem might be your torque wrench. If it's a torque
> wrench that goes up to 25Nm or 30Nm, then it's quite likely to have
> substantial error at low settings.
>
> Nick
>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Front Derailleur Clamp Size for 64 cm Clem L

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

Anyone know what front derailleur clamp size I would need  to get for a 
64cm Clem L? Thanks-

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[RBW] Re: i pinched seat tube putting on problem solvers brand front derailleur clamp

[Nick Payne]

That surprises me. I've been fitting band-on front derailleurs for about 
half a century, and can't recall ever even damaging paintwork, let alone 
denting a seat tube. Mind you, 4Nm is quite a lot - I'm rather surprised 
that the marked setting would be that high. I've never used a torque wrench 
on an FD clamp when assembling a bike, but it doesn't need anything like 
that much force applied to the pinch bolt to hold the derailleur in place. 
After all, the handlebar clamp bolts on threadless stems are usually marked 
as 5Nm; that's sufficient to hold the handlebars in place, and the 
rotational force on a drop handlebar when you've got your weight out on the 
brake hoods is many times greater than that on an FD.

The other possible problem might be your torque wrench. If it's a torque 
wrench that goes up to 25Nm or 30Nm, then it's quite likely to have 
substantial error at low settings.

Nick

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