[RBW] Re: Going around in circles with shifters.

[Ben Adrian]

Scene report!

To the Riv out for an urban cruise today. Shifting was still terrible. I 
did some tests while riding where I just leaned over and pulled on the 
shifting cables between the stops and the bottom bracket. The shifting was 
really smooth. So it must be the cable going through the handlebar bends 
while under load/tension. Around the circle I continue to go...
On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 6:38:13 AM UTC-7 Bill Schairer wrote:

> Having ridden for years with a front handlebar bag, I guess I'm just used 
> to pushing the cables from the bar end shifters one way or the other to 
> mount or unmount the bag.  That said, I now run my Atlantis with a DT front 
> shifter and bar end rear shifter for two reasons unrelated to cable/bag 
> interference - for some reason, my left hand is less tolerant of the 
> shifting motion required for the bar end shifter than my right and, on past 
> tours, my front derailleur has at times become balky in dirty conditions 
> which I attribute partially to the derailleur spring having trouble 
> overcoming the additional friction caused by dirty cable housing.  I find 
> the front shift much more reliable and quick with less effort with the DT 
> shifter.  On a two month tour just completed, I had zero troubles with 
> front shifts despite lots of gravel and rain whereas one week tours on 
> gravel of past with bar end required daily lubrication and exercise of the 
> front derailleur and still things could get balky.  For whatever it is 
> worth, a couple of the guys I toured with used brifters and suffered from 
> similar issues.  The downside was the double shift to or from the granny 
> was not nearly as smooth as with two bar ends but at least they always did 
> happen.  I just don't worry much where I've got to push the cables from the 
> bar ends. I have another bike with two bar ends and a bag which works just 
> fine for me on day rides.
>
> Bill S 
> San Diego
>
> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 2:44:26 PM UTC-7 bunny...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I love all the replies and knowledge here. It's pretty fun.
>>
>> I did a little test. I put my RD in the biggest cog. I then shifted all 
>> the way down to the smallest cog without pedaling to put slack in the 
>> cable. Then I pulled the cable tight at the downtube. Then I shifted back 
>> up to the biggest cassette without any derailleur spring tension in the 
>> way. It actually felt pretty smooth. I never did this test BEFORE this 
>> routing, so I have no control, though.
>>
>> I will say that just a couple days before I ran new cable that I put a 
>> derailleur hangar extender on the rear so I could go up to a 32t rear cog 
>> with my Ultegra 6500 derailleur. It works fine, but I wonder if some of the 
>> shifting resistance is more about making larger cog jumps and running my 
>> derailleur out of spec, and not entirely cable friction. Also, I've been 
>> running the bike in indexed mode.
>>
>> So, step 1 is to go to friction mode and hang out on the smaller side of 
>> the cassette; see if it feels any easier. If so I'll have to figure out 
>> where to go. If not...
>> Step 2, try the long floppy cable thing.
>> Step 3. consider Tiagra 4703 and a 4700/5800/6800 long rear derailleur. I 
>> have a 2x10 4700 setup on a budget carbon road bike and it was actually 
>> pretty good. It looks like they have a 3x10 lever setup. I know that RD can 
>> handle a 34, shifts smoothly, and is easy to set-up. Plus a 10s cassette 
>> will still fit my older wheels.
>>
>> Or I just go back to a high end, ratchet, downtube shifter and learn to 
>> love it ;) Keep this circle going!
>>
>> By no means should this kill the conversation, though. Chat away!
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Ben
>>
>> On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 12:15:35 PM UTC-7 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>
>>> Ben: I will add my 2 cents: we are big bar-end fans - they are on the 
>>> bikes that have drop handlebars.  We only go friction - not indexed, so 
>>> YMMV.  We use front racks and Wald baskets, and yes, depending upon your 
>>> specific setup, the pair of long "U" cable and cable housing can get in the 
>>> way.  Try routing the big U's under the Mark's rack and then zip-tie them 
>>> to the rack so they are somewhat stationary.  Finally zip tie both U's 
>>> together so they act like a single unit.  Yeah, it looks clunky but it 
>>> might help keep those big U's under control.
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> Claremont, CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 6:48:00 PM UTC-7 bunny...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey all! Just looking for some gear chat.

 I have a Rambouillet with drop bars. I'm finally getting everything 
 comfortable, but I've been around the block with my shifters.

 My bike came with 8 speed bar end shifters. However, when I did my 
 first configuration I mounted them on the downtube. They worked great. It 
 was kind of a bummer to reach down, but I went with it because I loved the 
 simplicity and getting the 

[RBW] Re: FS: Rack - Nitto Mini-Front 32F

[jeffbog...@hotmail.com]

Sold.

On Saturday, 27 August 2022 at 08:24:54 UTC-5 jeffbog...@hotmail.com wrote:

> Perfect shape as pictured. $95
>
> Jeff
> (Alabama)
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Randonneuring Bike

[William Lindsay]

Nikko has gotta hear more about how I categorize bikes. He said “ i'm happy
to treat a cyclocross bike as a gravel bike any day. “

There’s nothing wrong with treating a cyclocross race bike as a gravel
bike. There’s nothing wrong with using your cyclocross race bike as a
gravel bike or riding it on a gravel ride. Similarly one can take their
cyclocross race bike on a road ride or a brevet or a commute. Those uses
don’t change the fact that the Rivendell Legolas is a cyclocross race bike.
That’s all.

Gravel Bike means a broad spectrum of things in 2022.  For me the main
differences between a gravel bike and a cyclocross race bike are the gravel
bike has a lower BB, wider tire clearance, a longer front center, and a
slacker STA (in my book). A cyclocross race bike is also set up to be
carried in cyclocross races.

Bill Lindsay
Somewhere near the border of Germany and the Netherlands.

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 10:42 PM Nikko in Oakland 
wrote:

> Bill (via Toshi)
> Off topic, but I gotta hear more about this delineation between a racing
> cyclocross bike and an aggressive gravel bike. I have my own thoughts on
> the same topic, but i'm happy to treat a cyclocross bike as a gravel bike
> any day.
>
> On topic, I was dithering pretty heavily on whether or not my Legolas was
> going to be my brevet bike or not, and decided against it for some of the
> same reasons Bill mentioned. A bit too responsive (great for short rides
> and hard corners), and it's set up slightly more aggressive than my past
> rando bikes. I was initially hunting down a 60cm Rambouillet for brevets
> and commuting, but ended up stumbling upon a good deal on a Boulder Brevet
> that is literally the perfect bike for me.
>
> My two cents... Ram, AHH, Sam, Roadini, Roadeo are your better bets for
> rando, from best to least best (mostly because of luggage options and the
> such). At Del Puerto 200km 2021, I did see someone on a really sick ruby or
> red Atlantis.
> On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 4:08:10 PM UTC-7 John Hawrylak wrote:
>
>> Just 1 bit of advice for the weight in a front bag & saddle bag for a
>> Rivendell, I remember from a Grant P blog
>>
>> Put the heavy items, tools, tubes, extra clothes, extra food, in the
>> saddlebag .Put LIGHT items in the front bag, food until the next
>> control *and* items you will want to get while moving *or* not
>> dismounting.
>>
>> Since the Riv models have higher wheel flop (due to higher trail),
>> keeping the load light upfront minimizes the effects of high wheel flop.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 4:52:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for opinions/thoughts on the best Riv for Brevets, 200-400K
>>> rides. Looking for current models as well as older models. Thanks
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[brendonoid]

Grant has said previously that no one local is interested, including Paul.
I was more pointing out that I wouldn't be paying hundreds of dollars for
anything made in China, and that the prices Grant was talking about
definitely makes domestic production more attractive.
There are lots of places in Asia to ethically produce something and China
is not one of those places. Full stop. I don't really care what lies they
tell you or fake factory floor they show you pictures of.

I suspect Eric Daume is right. *It aint worth it*.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Johnny Alien]

I am sure a Paul made one would be well north of a grand. You might pay it 
but I would guess most of the regular world would not.  Especially with 
cheap RR options available used. It's not like this is a product people are 
trying desperately to get. Its a product that Rivendell is going to have to 
convince people they need. I'm up to try one but when the Altus derailer I 
have on my Clem works so f'n fantastic at $25 it's hard for me to think of 
paying 20 times that to make it go backwards. It would be an odd sell for a 
company that has long been saying the cheapest Shimano shift as good as all 
of the expensive stuff. I still hope he can pull it together I was 
certainly interested in the low end version.

On Saturday, August 27, 2022 at 6:20:13 AM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> $19k was for one cage plate. So, two cage plates, and what? four parts of 
> the upper link? Probably well over $100k total in tooling.
>
> Bringing back rapid rise ain't worth it. 
>
> Eric
> who has tried RR but doesn't see the point
>
> On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 2:02 AM brendonoid  wrote:
>
>> A bit more concerning in the blahg was that the tooling to make the 
>> non-cnc'd version was going to cost ~$19k?
>> I suspect that would be a no go for proceeding.
>>
>> I sort of wish Paul or white industries or someone local would just do it 
>> for a crazy expensive price. At least it would be MUSA and you know it 
>> would be great quality, considering what Paul derailleurs go for in the 
>> second hand market I have no doubt he would be able to sell them even at a 
>> crazy price point.
>>
>> I wouldn't be happy paying 500 for a made in china derailleur. That is as 
>> much a political choice as anything else but I wouldn't do it. 
>> I might consider paying a grand for a Paul derailleur though...
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[Eric Daume]

$19k was for one cage plate. So, two cage plates, and what? four parts of
the upper link? Probably well over $100k total in tooling.

Bringing back rapid rise ain't worth it.

Eric
who has tried RR but doesn't see the point

On Sat, Aug 27, 2022 at 2:02 AM brendonoid  wrote:

> A bit more concerning in the blahg was that the tooling to make the
> non-cnc'd version was going to cost ~$19k?
> I suspect that would be a no go for proceeding.
>
> I sort of wish Paul or white industries or someone local would just do it
> for a crazy expensive price. At least it would be MUSA and you know it
> would be great quality, considering what Paul derailleurs go for in the
> second hand market I have no doubt he would be able to sell them even at a
> crazy price point.
>
> I wouldn't be happy paying 500 for a made in china derailleur. That is as
> much a political choice as anything else but I wouldn't do it.
> I might consider paying a grand for a Paul derailleur though...
>
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> .
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[RBW] Re: Do you Rapid Rise? (Share pics and thoughts)

[brendonoid]

A bit more concerning in the blahg was that the tooling to make the 
non-cnc'd version was going to cost ~$19k?
I suspect that would be a no go for proceeding.

I sort of wish Paul or white industries or someone local would just do it 
for a crazy expensive price. At least it would be MUSA and you know it 
would be great quality, considering what Paul derailleurs go for in the 
second hand market I have no doubt he would be able to sell them even at a 
crazy price point.

I wouldn't be happy paying 500 for a made in china derailleur. That is as 
much a political choice as anything else but I wouldn't do it. 
I might consider paying a grand for a Paul derailleur though...

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