[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Ian A]

Sorry about my post. It was truncated. I was trying to write my guess is 
that you slipped on some diesel or oil under the water on the road. I used 
to ride motorcycles in the UK and the biggest risk of losing traction was 
when it had been dry for a few days and then you found yourself riding home 
from work in fresh rain. Any oil on the road would not be washed away yet 
and was much more hazardous under a sheen of water.

Whether on drops or upright bars, the chance of going down in those 
circumstances are the same. Wet leaves have also caught me out on the 
bicycle and the transition between upright and lying on the ground is like 
a quarter of a second.

It was nothing you did wrong and the bike set up would make little to no 
difference. Just bad luck combined with two wheels. 

Heal quickly and well and get back in the saddle when it feels right.

IanA
Alberta Canada
On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:09:46 PM UTC-7 Jim Bronson wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin 
> area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or 
> so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of 
> course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the 
> rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.
>
> Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a 
> traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out 
> from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked 
> the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that 
> I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this 
> time I was down on the ground in a flash.
>
> Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair 
> distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends 
> to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot 
> put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic 
> surgeon says after that.
>
> The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my 
> Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended 
> it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking 
> maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at 
> some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of 
> "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in 
> order to do it.
>
> I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing 
> but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B 
> converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I 
> took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to 
> puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  
>
> So anyway.
> Prove me wrong!
> Drops for Clem 2022!
>
> -Jim
> austin suburbs, tx
>
> -- 
> --
> signature goes here
>

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[RBW] Re: NorCal Cycling

[Luke Hendrickson]

Dude living in San Francisco here: it’s pretty great 

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:26:54 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of 
> cyclists who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the 
> "Frisco" bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted 
> by "Henry Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up 
> and down some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads 
> equipped with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to 
> wear in the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nivex on a Rivendell?

[Bill Gibson]

I see derailleurs for sale for $20, and up. I bet they shift just fine with
skillful installation and practice. Dura-Ace costs a little more than the
Nivex Nuevo, but not much, which I guess is a statement about the place in
the universe the Nivex claims. Better and lighter and cheaper than
Dura-Ace! The price is not the point. The point is, well like, Louis
Armstrong said, "If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know." It is
about pure mechanical joy. I would love to ride with it. I am surprised
that indexing came before friction, but will be interested in future
batches. I'd like to see a bolt-on version, even though I know the braze-on
version is better, hands down. I might put a bolt-on version on my
Quickbeam. I come from the era when the "best" frames had no braze-ons,
only clamp-ons. Something about heat damaging the frames of that time. Same
for the Herse brakes, a bolt-on adapter for those, and a path to integrated
heaven for the masses, imagined or real. Heck, I want a chain rest, too.

Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA
My Photographs  :
https://billbgibson.myportfolio.com/ and on Behance:
https://www.behance.net/BillGibson 


On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 12:22 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> As Grant said circa 1997: "We are product driven, not market driven."
>
> I don't have a use for very wide sweepback bars or a Nivex rd, but I do
> admire them both for forcing the design and creation of things they love in
> a market where everything is flowing in the opposite direction, *and* it's
> not an apparent expensive "lifestyle" or "style alone" thing as Silca's and
> Chaterlea's new offerings seem to be. (But I am open to correction about
> Silca and Chaterlea.)
>
> Patrick Moore, who hedged his close-ratio 3-speed Sturmey Archer bet with
> a second, backup AM hub.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 12:12 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> ... In my book Jan and Grant are exactly the same.  Both took enormous
>> time, effort and expense to execute a project they believe in.  Neither
>> will make money for their companies.  Neither was a publicity stunt.  They
>> just believed in something and decided to do it.  Both think all current
>> derailers are great.  Both wanted to offer an alternative choice.  Both
>> would not have bothered if such a thing was available today.   If you want
>> one, buy one.  If you don't want one, no problem.
>>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Gus - bikepacking mode

[Luke Hendrickson]

Goddamn that’s SICK

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 7:00:09 PM UTC-8 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> What a beautiful setup! I can’t wait to see pictures from the next trip! 
> I’ll be watching to see what the bag behind the seat tube comes out like, 
> I’ve definitely been interested in using that space. 
>
> Is your light mount solid on the makeshift Pec Deck? I was thinking about 
> doing that as well but thought it might not be super stable. I have it 
> mounted with the stock mount the Edelux came with but haven’t had a chance 
> to test it very much. It has been studded riding for weeks and I have those 
> on the Clem with fenders… Loving your setup!
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I think I've finally gotten my bikepacking setup dialed in on my Gus, and 
>> thought I'd share. My previous efforts were a bit slapdash, but I'm 
>> planning on a couple of overnighters down in Florida this winter and want 
>> to take Gus with me. After all, that's what I bought this bike for (I 
>> replaced my old Surly Troll with this Gus for off-road bikepacking).
>>
>> 8.5 lbs in the rear, and 5.5 lbs up front. I haven't factored in food and 
>> clothing, but this is my typical weight distribution.
>>
>> All bags are supported; the rear BxB Goldback is secured to my saddle via 
>> a Carradice Bagman QR, and is primarily supported by the R14. The front 
>> Fab's Chest is supported by my makeshift "Pec Deck", which also 
>> conveniently holds my Edelux. I'm also currently working with Andy Schmidt 
>> from Lord's Luggage in Portland to design a prototype frame bag for the 
>> space behind the seat tube on Gus and Susies - more to come on that early 
>> next year!
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/rGKnL3BhiXeUeZGp6
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Joe Bernard]

It's possible the OP feels that the lower/forward position will give him 
more grip up front. I like (and with my arthritis, need) a super-upright 
position, but there's no doubt all that distance from the front contact 
patch can feel a little skittish sometimes. Especially in the wet! 

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 7:31:02 PM UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I'm not super good at math but it seems to be that you would fall the same 
> distance whether you are upright or leaning more because of drops. You are 
> still at the same height on your bike. It's just a perception of being 
> lower because you are leaning forward. Basically I am not sure it would 
> have ended up any different for you. But I am not discouraging different 
> cockpits. Variety is the spice of life. Change it up.
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:36:02 PM UTC-5 Ian A wrote:
>
>> My guess is that you slipp
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:09:46 PM UTC-7 Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin 
>>> area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or 
>>> so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of 
>>> course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the 
>>> rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.
>>>
>>> Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a 
>>> traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out 
>>> from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked 
>>> the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that 
>>> I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this 
>>> time I was down on the ground in a flash.
>>>
>>> Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair 
>>> distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends 
>>> to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot 
>>> put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic 
>>> surgeon says after that.
>>>
>>> The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my 
>>> Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended 
>>> it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking 
>>> maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at 
>>> some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of 
>>> "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in 
>>> order to do it.
>>>
>>> I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually 
>>> doing but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 
>>> 650B converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day 
>>> I took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to 
>>> puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  
>>>
>>> So anyway.
>>> Prove me wrong!
>>> Drops for Clem 2022!
>>>
>>> -Jim
>>> austin suburbs, tx
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> --
>>> signature goes here
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Johnny Alien]

I'm not super good at math but it seems to be that you would fall the same 
distance whether you are upright or leaning more because of drops. You are 
still at the same height on your bike. It's just a perception of being 
lower because you are leaning forward. Basically I am not sure it would 
have ended up any different for you. But I am not discouraging different 
cockpits. Variety is the spice of life. Change it up.

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 9:36:02 PM UTC-5 Ian A wrote:

> My guess is that you slipp
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:09:46 PM UTC-7 Jim Bronson wrote:
>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin 
>> area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or 
>> so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of 
>> course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the 
>> rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.
>>
>> Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a 
>> traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out 
>> from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked 
>> the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that 
>> I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this 
>> time I was down on the ground in a flash.
>>
>> Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair 
>> distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends 
>> to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot 
>> put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic 
>> surgeon says after that.
>>
>> The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my 
>> Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended 
>> it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking 
>> maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at 
>> some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of 
>> "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in 
>> order to do it.
>>
>> I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing 
>> but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B 
>> converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I 
>> took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to 
>> puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  
>>
>> So anyway.
>> Prove me wrong!
>> Drops for Clem 2022!
>>
>> -Jim
>> austin suburbs, tx
>>
>> -- 
>> --
>> signature goes here
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Gus - bikepacking mode

[Ryan Frahm]

What a beautiful setup! I can’t wait to see pictures from the next trip! 
I’ll be watching to see what the bag behind the seat tube comes out like, 
I’ve definitely been interested in using that space. 

Is your light mount solid on the makeshift Pec Deck? I was thinking about 
doing that as well but thought it might not be super stable. I have it 
mounted with the stock mount the Edelux came with but haven’t had a chance 
to test it very much. It has been studded riding for weeks and I have those 
on the Clem with fenders… Loving your setup!

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:59:16 PM UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I think I've finally gotten my bikepacking setup dialed in on my Gus, and 
> thought I'd share. My previous efforts were a bit slapdash, but I'm 
> planning on a couple of overnighters down in Florida this winter and want 
> to take Gus with me. After all, that's what I bought this bike for (I 
> replaced my old Surly Troll with this Gus for off-road bikepacking).
>
> 8.5 lbs in the rear, and 5.5 lbs up front. I haven't factored in food and 
> clothing, but this is my typical weight distribution.
>
> All bags are supported; the rear BxB Goldback is secured to my saddle via 
> a Carradice Bagman QR, and is primarily supported by the R14. The front 
> Fab's Chest is supported by my makeshift "Pec Deck", which also 
> conveniently holds my Edelux. I'm also currently working with Andy Schmidt 
> from Lord's Luggage in Portland to design a prototype frame bag for the 
> space behind the seat tube on Gus and Susies - more to come on that early 
> next year!
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/rGKnL3BhiXeUeZGp6
>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Ian A]

My guess is that you slipp

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:09:46 PM UTC-7 Jim Bronson wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin 
> area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or 
> so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of 
> course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the 
> rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.
>
> Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a 
> traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out 
> from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked 
> the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that 
> I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this 
> time I was down on the ground in a flash.
>
> Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair 
> distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends 
> to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot 
> put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic 
> surgeon says after that.
>
> The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my 
> Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended 
> it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking 
> maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at 
> some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of 
> "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in 
> order to do it.
>
> I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing 
> but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B 
> converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I 
> took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to 
> puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  
>
> So anyway.
> Prove me wrong!
> Drops for Clem 2022!
>
> -Jim
> austin suburbs, tx
>
> -- 
> --
> signature goes here
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[iamkeith]

Joe,

before throwing in my 2 cents, I want to acknowledge that this is not 
really answering your questions but, instead, telling you to do something 
different.   I usually get annoyed when people answer a direct question 
with "you don't need that" but, in this case, my friend, I know enough 
about you and your bike-purchase-and-subsequent-regret habits to want to 
save you some hassle.  Others have already mentioned a couple of the ideas 
I was going to offer, but here it is with more explanation:

I haven't read through  your other ibob thread completely, but do 
understand that much of your interest comes from wanting to relieve wrist 
discomfort - especially on rough trails..  So this response is partly in 
consideration of that question.


*"Novelty" concerns:* I was a pretty early adopter of fat bikes. They're 
the only kind of bike I can even ride for fully 6 months of the year or 
more, due to the amount of snow where I live. (Along with northern 
Minnesota and Anchorage, my area - the sister communities of Teton County 
Idaho and Teton County Wyoming - were where much of the early fatbike 
development occurred.) For a number of years around 2010 or so, I rode a 
fat bike almost exclusively, all year. I liked it for it's back-to-basics, 
monster-truck, roll-over-anything simplicity. But, even for an retro-grouch 
like me who lives in a place where they make complete sense, that appeal 
eventually wore off and I now only ride it when no other bike will work. 
Most people who get fat bikes enjoy the novelty for an even shorter period 
of time. They eventually tire of the extra rolling resistance and steering 
compromises and increased q- factor and mechanical complications and 
weight. Then they quit riding them. 

*Tire Size considerations*: Keep in mind that there have been HUGE advances 
in tire manufacturing and technology since (and because) 26" fat bike tires 
were invented - even though that wasn't all that long ago. 2008, maybe? 
Much of what made 26x4 tires work so well was their diameter, which was 
similar to the not-much-older 29er development. But, unless you really plan 
on riding in loose sand or deep snow most of the time, there is no longer 
any advantage to 4" tires. There are now some 650b semi-fat tires that give 
you almost all of the advantages of 26x4 with none of the problems. If you 
think about it, there's nothing more "rivendell-esqe" than 650b, right? 
They wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Rivendell! 

*Regarding suspension and bounciness*: The best thing about fat bikes is 
that they eliminate the need for suspension for most "normal" riding. But 
it takes a lot of effort to tune the tire pressure to really take advantage 
of this. Almost as much hassle as dealing with shock rebound rates and 
pressure settings, etc. on a true full-suspension bike. When you get tire 
pressure >just< right, you don't bounce at all, and you don't have funny 
steering or excessive rolling inefficiency. But the optimum pressure 
requirement changes depending on terrain and load, so you end up fussing 
with it a lot. (or giving up and getting frustrated with the ride qualities 
- a la the "novelty wearing off topic." ) The REALLY important thing to 
keep in mind here is that the bigger the tire volume / cross section, the 
more sensitive it is  to pressure adjustments, and the more you need to 
mess with it. So you're absolutely better off only getting as much tire as 
you really need! 4" is really overkill most of the time, now that there are 
intermediate options.

*Geometry considerations (and Pugsley concern)*: You specifically asked 
about the Puglsey. I'll venture that is probably NOT the bike for you. I 
had a first generation pugsly at one point (with canti brakes!) . The thing 
about wrist pain - as you know from Grant teaching us - is that it's more 
of an issue of frame geometry than it is of tire plushness or vibrations 
and impacts being transferred through the bars. In particular, it comes 
from bikes with too-low handlebars and too-steep seat tubes angles and 
twitchy steering geometries, all conspiring to require you to put lots of 
your body weight on the handlebars. They may have gotten better since mine, 
but the thing about pretty much ALL surly bikes is that they have extremely 
short head tubes and stack heights. You can add 4" of stem spacers and a 
high-rise stem but, at some point, you're probably fighting the design 
intent of the bike. 

Similarly and, as CJ noted, many accomplished snow bike racers prefer short 
chainstays, and it's probably valid.. to a point. I've had that same 
conversation with Mike Curiak and Jay Petervary. The think to keep in mind 
is that these are extremely fit riders who have the strength to shift their 
weight fore and aft as needed, as a technique for staying on top of the 
snow. AND they're riding in the iditarod, for christ's sake. For most of us 
mortals - and for someone who's not really even riding on snow - that's 
much 

[RBW] Re: Gus for sale

[Joe Bernard]

Hehe, the seller Jesse is the one who posted this thread. The saddle height 
question is better answered here for all to see, there's very little chance 
I'm tall enough to ride this bike. 

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 5:26:21 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:

> Hi Joe,
> According to Mike Ghort he spoke to the seller Jesse, who was very nice 
> and helpful, sent him a full build list, was willing to have the bike 
> shipped. (864) 884-4957
> Call Jesse and ask him about the saddle height. Great price !  I have no 
> interest just encouragement. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 4:07:06 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Golly jeepers that's a nice bike. Do you know the saddle height as 
>> pictured? 
>>
>> Joe "yes I know I'm too short, I've been short all my life" Bernard 
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:15 AM UTC-8 jht...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://greenville.craigslist.org/bik/d/greenville-rivendell-gus-boots-wilson/7557071734.html
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Wald 137 basket w/o hardware

[George Cline]

Shipping will be tough not because of weight but because of the size of the 
package. I just sent a rear rack via USPS and almost fainted at the cost! 
Better to find a new one online or at an LBS.

George in NoCal

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:02:18 PM UTC-8 phoen...@gmail.com wrote:

> Edward, thanks you’re absolutely right. I suppose I should just open this 
> up to 137’s with or without hardware. I know that the hardware is easy to 
> remove. I was requesting no hardware to potentially save a few $$ on 
> shipping. I imagine that the basket shipped with struts would require a 
> larger box, than sans struts.
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 10:54:45 AM UTC-8 edwardb...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Todd, you can purchase any basket and remove the hardware yourself. I did 
>> that with my 139 with a screwdriver and a small pair of pliers. Sometimes 
>> the basket sans hardware can be difficult to find. 
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 10:39 AM Todd G  wrote:
>>
>>> Looking for a Wald 137 basket, specifically the model with no hardware 
>>> as it will be secured to a Nitto rack. 
>>>
>>> If you have one to part with please send me a message, or reply here. 
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Gus for sale

[Kim Hetzel]

Hi Joe,
According to Mike Ghort he spoke to the seller Jesse, who was very nice and 
helpful, sent him a full build list, was willing to have the bike shipped. 
(864) 884-4957
Call Jesse and ask him about the saddle height. Great price !  I have no 
interest just encouragement. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 
On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 4:07:06 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Golly jeepers that's a nice bike. Do you know the saddle height as 
> pictured? 
>
> Joe "yes I know I'm too short, I've been short all my life" Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:15 AM UTC-8 jht...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> https://greenville.craigslist.org/bik/d/greenville-rivendell-gus-boots-wilson/7557071734.html
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Bob]

Joe,

The final iteration of Surly's Pugsley had 460 mm chainstays and accepted 
4.8 in. tires "with drivetrain restrictions." It also had a 72° seat tube 
angle, which would feel a little more relaxed and Rivish than the steeper 
angles on MTBs these days.

The Tumbleweed Prospector and the Crust Scapegoat max out at 4.0 in. tires, 
I think, but have 73 mm bottom brackets for a more comfortable Q factor. (I 
ride a Pugsley, and have a limited tolerance for the 200 mm Q factor.)

If you go custom, Myth Cycles in Durango CO has the Chimera 
(https://mythcycles.com/bikes/chimera/). The listed geometry is shorter in 
chainstay and wheelbase than you want, evidently the design allows a 
narrower Q than usual for a fatbike while also accommodating 4.8 in. tires.

That Tanglefoot Bull Thistle, though… wow. They present it as a 
drop-bar-specific design, but the top tube and reach are long enough to 
work with an upright bar, I think. Limited to 4.0 in. tires, but the bottom 
bracket is 83 mm so the Q factor will be narrower than most fatbikes. The 
angles (ST 71°, HT 69.5°) rather Riv-like, and the lugs—the LUGS!

I'm curious to see how your quest plays out.

--
Bob

P.S. Maybe the most Rivesque fatbike would be an early Pugsley, when they 
still had cantilever studs and Large Marge rim-brake-compatible rims. (See 
Rivendell Reader 39 from 2007.)

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 12:21:16 PM UTC-7 Joe D. wrote:

> Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
> picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
> characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
> wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).
>
> The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 
> inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
> studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
> addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
> I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
> love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
> use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
> a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
> off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 
>
> How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
> got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
> stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
> bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling 
> my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the 
> crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
> manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
> bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
> bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
> chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.
>
> For reference, scroll down here (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
>  
> and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
> both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
> consider these two models (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
>  
> The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
> sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
> long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
> achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
> out front.
>
> Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay 
> length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a 
> more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with 
> the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.
>
> Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get 
> me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other 
> fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than 
> geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few 
> chromoly fat bikes.
>
> (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy 
> discussion)
>
> - Joe
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[CJ]

I've owned 5 different fat bikes over the last 10 years, and I love riding 
on snowy trails. In my opinion, you do not want long chainstays for that. 
Shorter chainstays make it easier to get traction and get up on top of the 
snow. Multiple time Iditabike winner, Mike Curiak, feels the same way 
, so I know 
I'm not alone in this opinion. If you want a four season fat bike, I'd 
recommend the Surly Wednesday. It rides great all year round, fits 4.6" 
tires for all but the deepest powder days, works great with 29x3" wheels, 
and doesn't have the super wide Q-factor of a full 5" tire fat bike. If you 
want max flotation, the Surly Ice Cream truck is a great choice with 
clearance for 5.05" Vee Snowshoe XL tires. 

Another thing, if you're in between sizes, you can size down for a more 
nimble ride (shorter front-center and overall wheelbase) or up for a more 
stable ride.

Chris

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:21:16 PM UTC-5 Joe D. wrote:

> Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
> picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
> characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
> wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).
>
> The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 
> inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
> studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
> addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
> I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
> love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
> use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
> a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
> off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 
>
> How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
> got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
> stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
> bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling 
> my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the 
> crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
> manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
> bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
> bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
> chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.
>
> For reference, scroll down here (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
>  
> and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
> both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
> consider these two models (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
>  
> The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
> sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
> long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
> achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
> out front.
>
> Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay 
> length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a 
> more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with 
> the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.
>
> Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get 
> me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other 
> fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than 
> geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few 
> chromoly fat bikes.
>
> (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy 
> discussion)
>
> - Joe
>

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[RBW] Re: Gus for sale

[Joe Bernard]

Golly jeepers that's a nice bike. Do you know the saddle height as 
pictured? 

Joe "yes I know I'm too short, I've been short all my life" Bernard 

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:15 AM UTC-8 jht...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> https://greenville.craigslist.org/bik/d/greenville-rivendell-gus-boots-wilson/7557071734.html
>

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Re: [RBW] Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Julian Westerhout]

Jim, 

I'm sorry to hear about your crash and I hope that you heal well and 
quickly. 

I'm also tall - ride a 65 cm Clem and 66-68 cm road bikes. What bars do you 
have on the Clem now? I ride a 65 Clem with Chocomoose, they feel better 
than the Bosco to me, but still are quite upright. I'm not so sure that 
putting drops on the Clem will do that much in changing the center of 
gravity unless you plan on making the bars overall a lot lower than the 
saddle and always riding in the drops, and even then it's not going to make 
that much of a difference. How much do you think drops will lower your COG? 
maybe 6" or a foot? Will that make a real difference in a crash like that? 
I'm not sure it would. 

Had it rained a fair amount in the days prior to your ride and crash? If 
not, there might have been more oil on the road, making it slippery. Texas 
rain is, I'm guessing, not quite the same as western Oregon, 
condition-wise. In the case of your crash, I'm not sure that drops would 
make much difference in breaking a fibula or not -- after all, you can't 
get much lower than that on the leg without breaking your foot, so the bar 
height likely did not play a major role if at all. 

In my experience getting back on the bike once healed and overcoming 
stiffness caused by excessive caution (paired with as sensible level of 
caution, still!) is the answer to post-crash jitters. 

All the best, 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 






On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 4:28:31 PM UTC-6 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh dang - so sorry for you. Sounds like you are on the road to recovery so 
> that’s what counts. But, why do you think this happened? Just due to the 
> wet pavement?
> Heal well.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 15, 2022, at 5:09 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin 
> area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or 
> so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of 
> course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the 
> rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.
>
> Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a 
> traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out 
> from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked 
> the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that 
> I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this 
> time I was down on the ground in a flash.
>
> Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair 
> distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends 
> to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot 
> put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic 
> surgeon says after that.
>
> The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my 
> Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended 
> it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking 
> maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at 
> some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of 
> "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in 
> order to do it.
>
> I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing 
> but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B 
> converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I 
> took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to 
> puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  
>
> So anyway.
> Prove me wrong!
> Drops for Clem 2022!
>
> -Jim
> austin suburbs, tx
>
> -- 
> --
> signature goes here
>
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> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>  
> .Had
>  
> it rained a fair amount recently? If not, thee might have been more oil on 
> the road, making it slippery. Texas rain is, I'm guessing, not quite the 
> same as western Oregon, condition-wise. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Richard Rose]

Oh dang - so sorry for you. Sounds like you are on the road to recovery so that’s what counts. But, why do you think this happened? Just due to the wet pavement?Heal well.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 15, 2022, at 5:09 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:Hi folks,Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this time I was down on the ground in a flash.Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic surgeon says after that.The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in order to do it.I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  So anyway.Prove me wrong!Drops for Clem 2022!-Jimaustin suburbs, tx-- --signature goes here



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[RBW] NorCal Cycling

[George Schick]

At this time of the year I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous of cyclists 
who live in California, especially in the the NoCal area of the "Frisco" 
bay.  Lately I've been leering enviously at YouTube videos posted by "Henry 
Wildberry" where he and his riding companion(s) are cycling up and down 
some excellent North Bay area hilly/mountainous paths and roads equipped 
with little more than "fair weather" garments vs. what we have to wear in 
the Midwest Winters. Makes me want to move there...but not really.

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[RBW] Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[Jim Bronson]

Hi folks,

Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin
area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or
so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of
course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the
rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.

Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a
traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out
from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked
the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that
I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this
time I was down on the ground in a flash.

Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair
distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends
to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot
put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic
surgeon says after that.

The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my Clem
when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended it,
but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking maybe
it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at some
point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of "dropping
my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in order to do it.

I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing
but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B
converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I
took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to
puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.

So anyway.
Prove me wrong!
Drops for Clem 2022!

-Jim
austin suburbs, tx

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Wald 137 basket w/o hardware

[Todd G]

Edward, thanks you’re absolutely right. I suppose I should just open this 
up to 137’s with or without hardware. I know that the hardware is easy to 
remove. I was requesting no hardware to potentially save a few $$ on 
shipping. I imagine that the basket shipped with struts would require a 
larger box, than sans struts.




On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 10:54:45 AM UTC-8 edwardb...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Todd, you can purchase any basket and remove the hardware yourself. I did 
> that with my 139 with a screwdriver and a small pair of pliers. Sometimes 
> the basket sans hardware can be difficult to find. 
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 10:39 AM Todd G  wrote:
>
>> Looking for a Wald 137 basket, specifically the model with no hardware as 
>> it will be secured to a Nitto rack. 
>>
>> If you have one to part with please send me a message, or reply here. 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Gus - bikepacking mode

[Brian Turner]

I think I've finally gotten my bikepacking setup dialed in on my Gus, and 
thought I'd share. My previous efforts were a bit slapdash, but I'm 
planning on a couple of overnighters down in Florida this winter and want 
to take Gus with me. After all, that's what I bought this bike for (I 
replaced my old Surly Troll with this Gus for off-road bikepacking).

8.5 lbs in the rear, and 5.5 lbs up front. I haven't factored in food and 
clothing, but this is my typical weight distribution.

All bags are supported; the rear BxB Goldback is secured to my saddle via a 
Carradice Bagman QR, and is primarily supported by the R14. The front Fab's 
Chest is supported by my makeshift "Pec Deck", which also conveniently 
holds my Edelux. I'm also currently working with Andy Schmidt from Lord's 
Luggage in Portland to design a prototype frame bag for the space behind 
the seat tube on Gus and Susies - more to come on that early next year!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/rGKnL3BhiXeUeZGp6

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[luckyturnip]

I just saw a lovely Tumbleweed Prospector on Tumbleweed’s IG set up as a fatbike with 26x4On Dec 15, 2022, at 13:39, Brian Turner  wrote:Speaking of Riv-esque? How about the Tanglefoot Bull Thistle? Pricey and extravagant for sure, but it sure is lovely. It's made by my buddy Alex Meade, too.On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 4:29 PM Coal Bee Rye Anne  wrote:There's also the updated Crust Scapegoat/bot which takes up to 26x4" through 29x3"https://crustbikes.com/collections/frames/products/scapegoatOn Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 4:23:20 PM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:I forgot the Blackborow was redesigned as a cargo long tail... I was never in the market for such a thing but did initially have a slight interest in the v1 Blackborow with the dinglespeed build: https://www.salsacycles.com/bikes/2015_blackborow_dsHere's a TI fat bike from Bearclaw with 463 chainstays, over 1000 wheelbase across all sizes and 1177 WB/66cm toptube at my XL size which rivals the 66 or 67cm TT of my Clem H, though angles of 73/70.5  definitely differ than 72.5/72.5 of my Clem.  No experience with fat bikes or Bearclaw in general but recall coming across some other Bearclaw models online and that they had a fat-fat tired model. https://bearclawbicycleco.com/frank-titanium-fat-bike/On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:53:02 PM UTC-5 Slin wrote:Joe - Have you taken a look at fat tire cargo bikes like the Surly Big Fat Dummy? Or the Salsa Blackborow? I don't have experience with either, but maybe they could be options to fit your use case?SOn Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:16 AM UTC-8 Joe D. wrote:Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.For reference, scroll down here (https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,) and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, consider these two models (https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,). The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way out front.Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few chromoly fat bikes.(Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy discussion)- Joe



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Brian Turner]

Speaking of Riv-esque? How about the Tanglefoot Bull Thistle? Pricey and
extravagant for sure, but it sure is lovely. It's made by my buddy Alex
Meade, too.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 4:29 PM Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There's also the updated Crust Scapegoat/bot which takes up to 26x4"
> through 29x3"
> https://crustbikes.com/collections/frames/products/scapegoat
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 4:23:20 PM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
>> I forgot the Blackborow was redesigned as a cargo long tail... I was
>> never in the market for such a thing but did initially have a slight
>> interest in the v1 Blackborow with the dinglespeed build:
>> https://www.salsacycles.com/bikes/2015_blackborow_ds
>> Here's a TI fat bike from Bearclaw with 463 chainstays, over 1000
>> wheelbase across all sizes and 1177 WB/66cm toptube at my XL size which
>> rivals the 66 or 67cm TT of my Clem H, though angles of 73/70.5  definitely
>> differ than 72.5/72.5 of my Clem.  No experience with fat bikes or Bearclaw
>> in general but recall coming across some other Bearclaw models online and
>> that they had a fat-fat tired model.
>> https://bearclawbicycleco.com/frank-titanium-fat-bike/
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:53:02 PM UTC-5 Slin wrote:
>>
>>> Joe - Have you taken a look at fat tire cargo bikes like the Surly Big
>>> Fat Dummy? Or the Salsa Blackborow? I don't have experience with either,
>>> but maybe they could be options to fit your use case?
>>>
>>> S
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:16 AM UTC-8 Joe D. wrote:
>>>
 Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on
 picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride
 characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long
 wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).

 The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true
 4-5 inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with
 studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in
 addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun,
 I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d
 love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail
 use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for
 a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year
 off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now.

 How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another
 state got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long
  chain stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux
 cargo bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for
 hauling my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and
 the crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads
 totally manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that
 all my bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept
 back bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that
 leaves chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.

 For reference, scroll down here (
 https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
 and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis,
 both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes,
 consider these two models (
 https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
 The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its
 sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still
 long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It
 achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way
 out front.

 Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max
 chainstay length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm),
 leading to a more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat
 bikes with the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s
 have.

 Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would
 get me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality?
 Other fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors
 other than geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are
 very few chromoly fat bikes.

 (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a
 bike-nerdy discussion)

 - Joe

>>> --
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> "RBW 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

There's also the updated Crust Scapegoat/bot which takes up to 26x4" 
through 29x3"
https://crustbikes.com/collections/frames/products/scapegoat
On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 4:23:20 PM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> I forgot the Blackborow was redesigned as a cargo long tail... I was never 
> in the market for such a thing but did initially have a slight interest in 
> the v1 Blackborow with the dinglespeed build: 
> https://www.salsacycles.com/bikes/2015_blackborow_ds
> Here's a TI fat bike from Bearclaw with 463 chainstays, over 1000 
> wheelbase across all sizes and 1177 WB/66cm toptube at my XL size which 
> rivals the 66 or 67cm TT of my Clem H, though angles of 73/70.5  definitely 
> differ than 72.5/72.5 of my Clem.  No experience with fat bikes or Bearclaw 
> in general but recall coming across some other Bearclaw models online and 
> that they had a fat-fat tired model. 
> https://bearclawbicycleco.com/frank-titanium-fat-bike/
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:53:02 PM UTC-5 Slin wrote:
>
>> Joe - Have you taken a look at fat tire cargo bikes like the Surly Big 
>> Fat Dummy? Or the Salsa Blackborow? I don't have experience with either, 
>> but maybe they could be options to fit your use case?
>>
>> S
>>
>> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:16 AM UTC-8 Joe D. wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
>>> picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
>>> characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
>>> wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).
>>>
>>> The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 
>>> 4-5 inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
>>> studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
>>> addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
>>> I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
>>> love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
>>> use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
>>> a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
>>> off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 
>>>
>>> How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
>>> got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
>>> stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
>>> bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling 
>>> my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the 
>>> crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
>>> manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
>>> bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
>>> bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
>>> chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.
>>>
>>> For reference, scroll down here (
>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
>>>  
>>> and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
>>> both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
>>> consider these two models (
>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
>>>  
>>> The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
>>> sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
>>> long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
>>> achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
>>> out front.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max 
>>> chainstay length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), 
>>> leading to a more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat 
>>> bikes with the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s 
>>> have.
>>>
>>> Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would 
>>> get me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? 
>>> Other fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors 
>>> other than geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are 
>>> very few chromoly fat bikes.
>>>
>>> (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a 
>>> bike-nerdy discussion)
>>>
>>> - Joe
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I forgot the Blackborow was redesigned as a cargo long tail... I was never 
in the market for such a thing but did initially have a slight interest in 
the v1 Blackborow with the dinglespeed 
build: https://www.salsacycles.com/bikes/2015_blackborow_ds
Here's a TI fat bike from Bearclaw with 463 chainstays, over 1000 wheelbase 
across all sizes and 1177 WB/66cm toptube at my XL size which rivals the 66 
or 67cm TT of my Clem H, though angles of 73/70.5  definitely differ than 
72.5/72.5 of my Clem.  No experience with fat bikes or Bearclaw in general 
but recall coming across some other Bearclaw models online and that they 
had a fat-fat tired 
model. https://bearclawbicycleco.com/frank-titanium-fat-bike/

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 3:53:02 PM UTC-5 Slin wrote:

> Joe - Have you taken a look at fat tire cargo bikes like the Surly Big Fat 
> Dummy? Or the Salsa Blackborow? I don't have experience with either, but 
> maybe they could be options to fit your use case?
>
> S
>
> On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:16 AM UTC-8 Joe D. wrote:
>
>> Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
>> picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
>> characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
>> wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).
>>
>> The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 
>> inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
>> studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
>> addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
>> I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
>> love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
>> use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
>> a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
>> off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 
>>
>> How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
>> got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
>> stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
>> bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling 
>> my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the 
>> crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
>> manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
>> bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
>> bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
>> chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.
>>
>> For reference, scroll down here (
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
>>  
>> and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
>> both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
>> consider these two models (
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
>>  
>> The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
>> sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
>> long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
>> achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
>> out front.
>>
>> Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay 
>> length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a 
>> more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with 
>> the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.
>>
>> Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get 
>> me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other 
>> fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than 
>> geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few 
>> chromoly fat bikes.
>>
>> (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy 
>> discussion)
>>
>> - Joe
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Slin]

Joe - Have you taken a look at fat tire cargo bikes like the Surly Big Fat 
Dummy? Or the Salsa Blackborow? I don't have experience with either, but 
maybe they could be options to fit your use case?

S

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 11:21:16 AM UTC-8 Joe D. wrote:

> Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
> picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
> characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
> wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).
>
> The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 
> inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
> studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
> addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
> I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
> love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
> use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
> a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
> off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 
>
> How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
> got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
> stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
> bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling 
> my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the 
> crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
> manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
> bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
> bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
> chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.
>
> For reference, scroll down here (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
>  
> and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
> both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
> consider these two models (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
>  
> The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
> sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
> long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
> achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
> out front.
>
> Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay 
> length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a 
> more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with 
> the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.
>
> Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get 
> me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other 
> fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than 
> geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few 
> chromoly fat bikes.
>
> (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy 
> discussion)
>
> - Joe
>

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Re: [RBW] New Gus shipping from Canada

[Richard Rose]

Whoa! That’s a lot different than Jacob’s experience.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 15, 2022, at 2:20 PM, Ronald Halili  wrote:I too ordered my Gus from C Cycles at the end of the day of Thursday, 9/22/22 and it was delivered on Wednesday, 9/28/22 to NYC. From Canada it was shipped via Purolator and then transferred to UPS for final delivery. I received an email from UPS on Tuesday afternoon regarding import fees stating that I could either pay online or have check ready for the delivery driver. I chose the latter and wrote a check to UPS for the amount of $243.92 USD. As for the original question regarding clearance fee, I do not know how it was calculated other than the split of brokerage fee and import tax fee that was stated in the UPS email. Here is the breakdown of my purchase:





Frame/Fork/Headset/54cm Orange
(C$2600.00 + C$199.19 Shipping)
= $2095.83 USD
+ $191.42 USD Import Tax
+ $52.50 USD Brokerage Fee
= $2339.75 USDOn Monday, December 12, 2022 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-5 jacob...@gmail.com wrote:I bought my Gus from C Cycles out of Montreal. They shipped it to me (Pennsylvania) via UPS. I think it took 3 days? UPS sent me the bill for import fees and I think it was around $50. Dead simple process. Cheers,JacobSent from my iPhoneOn Dec 12, 2022, at 12:01 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:Yes, the Gus I found is at a Riv dealer in Canada. Having googled until I cannot stand it anymore I ask; anyone have experience with "clearance" fees associated with importing a bicycle frame from Canada? The closest I have come to uncovering the cost is that items valued under $2,500.00 US are less expensive and easier to do than items over $2,500.00. I started a Bikeflights estimate and I get the shipping cost and a message that clearance fees will be calculated and added to order.



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[RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Mr. Ray]

Just find a bike with chainstays that can accommodate 4.5" tires.  Long 
wheelbase is not necessary since the volume of the tires would be your 
"comfort and suspension".

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 2:21:16 PM UTC-5 Joe D. wrote:

> Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
> picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
> characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
> wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).
>
> The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 
> inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
> studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
> addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
> I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
> love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
> use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
> a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
> off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 
>
> How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
> got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
> stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
> bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling 
> my two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the 
> crazy long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
> manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
> bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
> bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
> chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.
>
> For reference, scroll down here (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
>  
> and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
> both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
> consider these two models (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
>  
> The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
> sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
> long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
> achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
> out front.
>
> Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay 
> length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a 
> more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with 
> the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.
>
> Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get 
> me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other 
> fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than 
> geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few 
> chromoly fat bikes.
>
> (Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy 
> discussion)
>
> - Joe
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Nivex on a Rivendell?

[Patrick Moore]

As Grant said circa 1997: "We are product driven, not market driven."

I don't have a use for very wide sweepback bars or a Nivex rd, but I do
admire them both for forcing the design and creation of things they love in
a market where everything is flowing in the opposite direction, *and* it's
not an apparent expensive "lifestyle" or "style alone" thing as Silca's and
Chaterlea's new offerings seem to be. (But I am open to correction about
Silca and Chaterlea.)

Patrick Moore, who hedged his close-ratio 3-speed Sturmey Archer bet with a
second, backup AM hub.


On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 12:12 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> ... In my book Jan and Grant are exactly the same.  Both took enormous
> time, effort and expense to execute a project they believe in.  Neither
> will make money for their companies.  Neither was a publicity stunt.  They
> just believed in something and decided to do it.  Both think all current
> derailers are great.  Both wanted to offer an alternative choice.  Both
> would not have bothered if such a thing was available today.   If you want
> one, buy one.  If you don't want one, no problem.
>

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Re: [RBW] Is there a 31.8 clamp drop bar comparable to a Nitto Noodle 54cm?

[Patrick Moore]

I have to retract my overly confident assertion: "best" for bars and
saddles can only mean "best for me." But here is what I like about the Maes
Parallel, after using scores of other road and "dirt" drop  bars.

The long flat ramps. I like my bars set up with ramps and ends of hooks
parallel to the ground, and the MP seems perfectly designed for this,
allowing you to mount your levers high enough without eliminating the flat
ramp ahead of the hoods.

Positions: Instead of 4 positions: hooks, hoods, ramps behind hoods, flats,
I get 5: hooks, hoods, ramps behind hoods, ramps a bit further back, flats.

The flat hooks. My left palm hurts when I rest it for more than 10 minutes
on a slanted hook. The other day I was in the hooks of the MP bar for a
good 5 miles non-stop, total 7 miles with a bit of a break; again, very
sensitive left palm. True, I did shift the left palm around every half mile
or mile, but I was in the drop position as described. Can't do that with
drop bar slanted downward.

The moderate drop. I like an aero hoods position, but enough difference
when moving from hoods to hooks so that there is material advantage against
a headwind; but I dislike deep drops which at almost 68 I find too low --
reason I swapped out the 140 mm drop Nitto 165 and Giro d'Italia bars for
the MPs (both have 90 mm ramps and 140 mm drop, IIRC). The MPs are
wonderful for this: again, long reach, modest drop.

Finally, the quality: the best of Nitto standards among all the levels of
high Nitto quality standards.

Oh, and even more finally: they have a prettier polish than say the Noodle
or 165 or GdI.


On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 3:25 PM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Patrick:
>
> Please, clarify what you mean by "best road drop bar on the market at
> least for non-brifter brake levers."
>
> I have a set of Ultegra brifters I'm wanting to install on my newly
> purchased HR Randonneur bars, as you know are similar to the Maes Parrallel.
>
> Scott
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 12:10:08 AM MST, Patrick Moore <
> bertin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I use the Maes Parallel on 3 bikes and IMO it's the best road drop bar on
> the market at least for non-brifter brake levers: longish reach, long flat
> ramps, modest drop, flat hooks. It does come in 31.8.
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 9:34 AM 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Are you in same position I am, looking for a 31.8 drop?
>
> Did you see the RH Maes Parallel on the their site?
>
> Thoughts?!
>
> Has anyone else tried the RH Randonneur or Maes Parallel? Takes, please?
>
> Best,
>
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, December 8, 2022 at 05:37:57 AM MST, Steven Sweedler <
> sweed...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Scott, yesterday on the Bob list I asked about comparisons of the Noodle
> and the RH Randonneur bar that comes in 31.8. The two responders liked both
> bars and had used them for years. Steve
>
> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 10:07 PM 'Scott' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Hey, all:
>
> I'm wanting to try a 54cm Nitto Noodle drop, but I want to keep my 31.8
> Faceplater to facilitate cockpit changes.
>
> Anyone know of a comparable bar or solution? Maybe I should just get a
> Noodle and stem for change outs...
>
> Also, am I on the right track going with a Noodle (54cm cuz I'm tall)? I
> plan on using it as a cockpit option for my Atlantis build.
>
> Happy Holidays,
>
> Scott
>
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> .
>
> --
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
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Re: [RBW] Atlantis 10 speed friction shifting?

[Patrick Moore]

All you need is a shift lever that pulls enough cable. How much "enough" is
depends on the derailleur's design: how much it moves per unit of cable
movement. Older rds move more per ditto, newer ones less -- so I
understand; I very rarely use any rd beyond 8 speed era.

My experience: Dura Ace 7402 rd pulled by Simplex Retrofriction (= small
barrel) dt shifters over 11-23 and 12-25 Am Classic 10 sp cassettes:
beautiful shifting.

DA 740? -- I think it may be the same 7402, but it might be a 7401 -- pulls
across 13-25 10 sp with a Suntour barcon: wonderful; the lever has to move
just a wee bit more than 90* to shift from small to big cog.

Close: Microshift road rd pulled across 9 cogs with a Silver 1 BES with
movement in both to spare; very good shifting.

Ditto but with reverse-pull LX rd.

On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 12:09 AM Sosa  wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> My Atlantis is equipped with the silver 38/24 crank up front, and an 11-42
> 10 speed cassette in the rear.  For rear shifting, I have the Deore Rapid
> Fire trigger shifter (index).
>
> I'd like to switch to friction shifting in the rear, without having to
> change the cassette. Any ideas / experience on how to make this work?
>
>  Thanks -
> Sam in StL , MO
>
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Cliffhanger alternatives?

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I have been happily riding 72 mm (actual; labeled 3"/76 mm) tires
(tubed and tubeless) on (non-tubeless) Alex 24 mm OW (again, OW, so
internal width probably what, 20 mm?) rims (with, tubless, a lot of Stan's
tape) and a cupful of OS Endurance in each tire. 13 psi. Works fine, as did
the 1.95s on 19 mm OW (13 mm IW) rims 30 years ago at 28 psi.

As with derailleur specs, I think that real world workability extends much
further than manufacturers' specs.

On Tue, Dec 13, 2022 at 8:29 AM Richard Rose  wrote:

> 2.5"-2.6" tires seem to be at the very upper limits for the venerable
> Cliffhanger. Is anyone aware of a 700c  rim brake rim that is a bit wider?
> I have not found one.
>
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[RBW] Re: Annual Head-Badge Poster Update

[isaac ramos]

THANKS!! this is super rad. I am going to print and frame for sure. 
NOT AN AD - I used these dudes MPIX all the time for a one off nice print, 
they have all kinda formats. I am going to use the Giclee print

https://www.mpix.com/products/prints/giclee-prints

I would be down for a calendar, I just made a 26" mountain bike calendar 
with a pal and the interest has been good for a Bike calendar.  


On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 5:07:24 AM UTC-8 Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:

> Climbing past 2,300 views now - a new record for these updates! Glad you 
> all like it. Beginning to think about something new. Open to ideas from the 
> bunch as to what kind of Riv-related poster (or calendar?) you might like 
> to see. I've done one of the bike models before, but it was difficult to 
> find good hi-res photos of all the bikes. No promise that I'll do something 
> in the near future, but when the mood strikes I want to have some ideas in 
> mind that this group would appreciate. 
>
> Marty
>
> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 8:57:53 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Marty !
>>
>> What a wonderful job you have done !  Magnifico !
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 7, 2022 at 4:46:14 PM UTC-8 C Lin wrote:
>>
>>> I would like to frame a print and mounted on my wall. Any suggestion on 
>>> material to print to and what is maximum size?
>>>
>>> Would also appreciate if someone can recommend a local San Diego printer 
>>>
>>> Carlos in San Diego
>>> On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 8:16:44 AM UTC-8 Marty Gierke, 
>>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>>
 Had some time to update the poster, and made a number of changes to 
 keep things interesting. Hope you all like it.

1. Highlighted the very first Rivendell badge (cast pewter) front 
and center and larger than life.
2. Swapped in a new version of the Riv badge in purple at the top 
left - I had not seen this one before. I like it!
3. Brought back the Heron badge. I LOVE it! 
4. Swapped in a different version of the Roadeo badge - this time 
in blue.  
5. Added the latest badge: the "Roaduno" even though it's not being 
sold yet. 
6. Enlarged the entire poster to 18X24 to accommodate all the 
badges. Frames are standard for this size print. 

 I keep thinking this will be the last update,  but if RIvendell 
 continues to add new models I'm duty bound to plug ahead. 

 As always, here's the link to the hi-res file on Flickr. Download and 
 print to your heart's content! Enjoy the holiday season and every ride 
 throughout the year!

 Rivendell Badge Poster File 
 

 Marty

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Francisco/Bay Area Riv Riders

[nicholas price]

I’m also in Nob Hill. Will be out of town for new years but would be happy to meet up for a later ride. Nicholas. On Dec 14, 2022, at 07:51, Brendan Willard in SF  wrote:I'm in Nob Hill, SF.  I'll be in Hawaii until the 10th, but count me in for future rides anywhere in the Bay Area.BrendanOn Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 7:27:01 AM UTC-8 Slin wrote:Luke  - I won't be in town for the 31/1st, but I'll join in on later dates for sure!On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 10:17:05 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Eric – it’d be fun to ch3ck out your neck of the woods. Jay – into it. Also suuuper game for Marin-based rides, too. I love it up there. Just did Bolinas Ridge on my Atlantis. Zac – sick!It goes without saying that having a Riv or riding a Riv to hang out is super not required.On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 8:41:58 PM UTC-8 zac.te...@gmail.com wrote:into it. 31st or 1st works for me if it gets nailed down. On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 8:08:17 PM UTC-8 Jay P wrote:I'd also appreciate the invitation for Bay Area rides and to meet some of yousJay PMarinOn Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 9:16:48 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Hey all! I know that it’s been a bit wet & cold, but I’d love to see if anyone would want to have a little ride in the coming week(s). Perhaps even a New Year’s day ride to celebrate in the new year in style?I’m in the City proper and was thinking about some mixed terrain around town while keeping it mostly road-ish so that no one’s limited by the ride route. Pastries + hot drinks + more snacks?I’d love to hear from anyone interested or even connect with other like-minded people for more than just a one-off ride. 



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[RBW] Gus for sale

[Jesse Tate]

https://greenville.craigslist.org/bik/d/greenville-rivendell-gus-boots-wilson/7557071734.html

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[RBW] Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Joe D.]

Hello Rivendell aficionados! The short version: I’d like some advice on 
picking a fat bike (4-5” wide tires) that shares similar ride 
characteristics with the current crop of Rivendell long chainstay-long 
wheelbase bikes (e.g. Clem, Atlantis, Platy, Gus/Susie).

The long version: I’m in the market for a full-on fat bike, with true 4-5 
inch wide tires. I live in Montana and my previous winter riding with 
studded 3 inch tires just wasn’t enough. We’re a one car family, so in 
addition to riding on winter trails or snowy forest service roads for fun, 
I’ll use the bike for groceries and errands as well. And as much as I’d 
love an Atlantis or Platy for dirt roads, bike camping, and light trail 
use, the more economical choice would be to get a set of 29 inch wheels for 
a fat bike and run 2.8 or 3 inch tires in non-snow season for an all year 
off-road bike. Hence the importance of making a good choice now. 

How I came to desire a Rivendell-esq fat bike: A friend in another state 
got a 2019 Clem and raves about the comfy, stable ride with the long  chain 
stays/wheelbase. But the real kicker was when I got a Yuba Mundo Lux cargo 
bike (https://yubabikes.com/cargobikestore/yuba-mundo-lux/) for hauling my 
two kids around. The swept back bars get me sitting upright, and the crazy 
long chainstay (753mm) and wheelbase (1410) make 150lb loads totally 
manageable. It’s like a Cadillac. Since the Yuba, I’ve vowed that all my 
bikes will be long and upright. Fortunately upright stems and swept back 
bars can take care of the upright part for near any bike, so that leaves 
chainstay/wheelbase length as the big question for a fat bike.

For reference, scroll down here 
(https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5d1ae74763bde8001707cf36,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e28,)
 
and you can see the chainstay/wheelbase lengths on the Clem and Atlantis, 
both ~550mm for chainstays and ~1235mm for wheelbase. For fat bikes, 
consider these two models 
(https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5ff009522655ff0017c6e96a,61c0a2add559210021256cf2,).
 
The Wyatt can actually have a longer wheelbase than the Rivendells with its 
sliding dropouts (1250 max wheelbase). But its chainstay is only 465, still 
long-ish for mountain bikes but not near what a Riv or cargo bike is. It 
achieves that with a slack head tube angle that pushes the front tire way 
out front.

Alternatively, the Giant fat bike in the link has a similar max chainstay 
length as the Wyatt (460mm) but a shorter wheelbase (1170mm), leading to a 
more centered position on the bike. I’m unable to find any fat bikes with 
the combination of long chainstay/wheelbase that the Rivendell’s have.

Any tips on which bike, and which geometry approach in general, would get 
me closest to the Rivendell/cargo bike-like comfort and ride quality? Other 
fat bikes? For simplicities sake, I guess don’t evaluate factors other than 
geometry, like frame material. For what it’s worth, there are very few 
chromoly fat bikes.

(Sorry for the length! I appreciate anyone getting into such a bike-nerdy 
discussion)

- Joe

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Re: [RBW] Re: How you choose 2 Rivendells?

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I'd further suspect the act of simply raising the bars may additionally 
contribute to some kind of anatomical/physiological relief.  In other 
words, maybe allowing additional flex within your own system that may not 
have been nearly as present with lower bars/posture.  This is purely 
un-informed, non-scientific, speculation but having experienced several fit 
issues of my own (primarily from just having too small frames for too long) 
I've wondered whether some experiences of perceived stiffness may have been 
more or less resulting from or increased by already present muscular 
tension from a less than desirable riding posture/postion/grip, etc.  

I tried numerous builds across a rotation of frames over a rather short 
period of time before settling into my current small stable.  Some of these 
short lived builds were just for fun, or to practice 
wrenching/maintenance/troubleshooting, or just make use of parts/frames 
that fell into my hands at the time, but I definitely found some that just 
didn't work or feel right, without ever being able to directly attribute 
the source.  It was a challenge to directly compare some, as a few became 
nothing more than a seasonal special/flavor of the month or quickly moved 
into other hands after build was complete (for a few hand me downs built 
out of necessity and fueled by a growing parts stash.)  In hindsight there 
were some missed opportunities there as some builds were rather impulsive 
with an abundance of time/parts and lots of swapping/scavenging so 
occasionally one build would be fully abandoned to feed another but I 
definitely felt those quill vs. threadless flex differences on some but not 
as much as expected on others.

JP, out of curiosity, has the rest of the Legolas build otherwise remained 
the same or were the steerer mods accompanied with further parts changes?

As for my response/approach to the OP's initial question I guess I'd echo 
the work and play sentiments mentioned above.  I already own a Clem H as 
one of my theoretical two Rivs and it truthfully covers all of my immediate 
and realistic cycling needs, whether for work/utility or play.  If adding a 
2nd to complement the Clem it would likely be a fully lugged country-bike 
with the Clem serving as the more utilitarian hillibike.  I do not commute 
by bike but most rides these days are for brief and local leisure rides 
when time permits or errand running.  The fully lugged countrybike I 
suppose I'd look to build as a simpler, lighter go-fast type bike but with 
the ability to load it up when necessary.  Just not fully racked or 
anything.  As mentioned in another thread, right around the time the 65cm 
Clem H was on the verge of being released I was seriously considering 
investing in a Hillborne or Hilsen as a one Riv and one bike solution, but 
I was very pleased to discover the big Clem was forthcoming and joined the 
presale without much hesitation.  I've since acquired two old, x-large 
frames that have been great as countrybike stand-ins with builds that would 
easily transfer or at least inspire a fresh build on something like the 
current Hillborne (I especially like that limeolive) or MIT A.Homer Hilsen 
but I'm really awaiting/anticipating the Roaduno release since I still 
can't shake the single speed bug and it's really suited my local terrain 
and riding habits:  mostly flat, multi-use paths, pavement, gravel with 
some occasional off-road/underbiking, but nothing technical aside from a 
ridiculously short stretch in the local park system which has actually been 
the single downside of the Clem (it's sheer size has made navigating the 
handful of tight spots on the short strip of single track a challenge 
compared to my old 26" rigid MTB and short-lived hardtail/full suspension 
experiments.)

Brian Cole
Lawrence NJ


On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 1:19:52 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> You had the stiffness of the steerer as your "quill", plus there was less 
> quill effect as your stem/bars were lower. You're probably feeling the flex 
> of that new taller and less stiff stem. 
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 10:07:09 AM UTC-8 MoVelo wrote:
>
>> I find this topic very interesting. Hope you don't mind if I indulge 
>> myself here a bit and solicit an opinion or three.
>>
>> While I love both the Legolas and Rambouillet, I purchased the Ram first 
>> as a used frame, due to the high praise it received on this and other 
>> forums. I've had it for over 10 years now and have not grown tired of it's 
>> utility, comfort and looks. It's a bike I can ride all day and not feel 
>> abused in any way and is well suited to the type of rides I most often do. 
>> It's not the lightest steel bike I own but it is probably my favorite and 
>> the one I most often ride. Even tho the weight of the frame is not much of 
>> a consideration for this audience; it seems to me that it could be one 
>> metric of an informed  opinion, and while it won't divulge the tubing 

Re: [RBW] Saddle height and BPH

[Andy Beichler]

I am not very flexible.  Even when I was young, before I hit my growth 
spurt, touching my toes was difficult at best.  I have a 92 PBH and run my 
saddle around 78 cm.  Anything higher and I feel like I am reaching for the 
pedal.  I usually just get it in the ballpark and adjust it if I start to 
hurt.

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 4:26:06 PM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

> I'm about your same size (36"/91cm PBH), but I run a 32"/81cm saddle 
> height (bottom bracket center to top of my (of course) level saddle). I 
> couldn't imagine pedaling with my saddle 6cm lower.
>
> When I played around with mid foot pedaling, I found I had to drop my 
> saddle, but less than an inch. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 12:49 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
>> I just took delivery of a new (non-Riv) bike and am dialing in the fit. 
>> I’m a little worried that the frame is too big for me, since I only have 
>> maybe 2” standover, which seems tight for a gravel bike.
>>
>> So I went out and measured the saddle height on my Hunq (which is a size 
>> 62). It came in at about 75cm. This gives me a solid fistful of seatpost. 
>> Then I remeasured my PBH, which is 93-94 cm depending on hard I pull. For 
>> reference, here’s the relevant page from HQ:
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/pages/pubic-bone-height-how-to-measure-your-pbh
>>
>> This suggests that based on my  PBH my saddle height should be closer to 
>> 83 cm – an 8cm discrepancy. Before riding in this morning I raised my 
>> saddle height to 79 cm, basically splitting the difference. It felt weird, 
>> which of course it would after so many years at 75cm. But I made it in and 
>> my feet were in full contact with the pedals without any tippytoe 
>> maneuvers. So I guess I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time? Kind of 
>> embarrassing. Even so, according to the Riv method my saddle height is 
>> still ~4cm lower than my PBH would suggest. 
>>
>> So I guess I’m wondering about alternative ways of determining saddle 
>> height somewhat objectively, and/or whether I should now be looking at 
>> other variables such as a fore-aft saddle positioning, saddle angle, and 
>> even saddle type (currently a B68, slammed back as far as it can go on a 
>> S83, with the nose pitched up ~10 degrees or so). Other relevant factors 
>> might be crank arm length (175mm), pedal height (Pedaling Innovations 
>> platform pedals), and shoes (Chuck Taylors, typically). Looking for the 
>> optimum balance of comfort, efficiency, and protecting my perineum.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] New Gus shipping from Canada

[Ronald Halili]

I too ordered my Gus from C Cycles at the end of the day of Thursday, 
9/22/22 and it was delivered on Wednesday, 9/28/22 to NYC. From Canada it 
was shipped via Purolator and then transferred to UPS for final delivery. I 
received an email from UPS on Tuesday afternoon regarding import fees 
stating that I could either pay online or have check ready for the delivery 
driver. I chose the latter and wrote a check to UPS for the amount of 
$243.92 USD. As for the original question regarding clearance fee, I do not 
know how it was calculated other than the split of brokerage fee and import 
tax fee that was stated in the UPS email. Here is the breakdown of my 
purchase:

Frame/Fork/Headset/54cm Orange

(C$2600.00 + C$199.19 Shipping)

= $2095.83 USD

+ $191.42 USD Import Tax

+ $52.50 USD Brokerage Fee

= $2339.75 USD

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 12:34:08 PM UTC-5 jacob...@gmail.com wrote:

> I bought my Gus from C Cycles out of Montreal. They shipped it to me 
> (Pennsylvania) via UPS. I think it took 3 days? UPS sent me the bill for 
> import fees and I think it was around $50. Dead simple process. 
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jacob
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 12, 2022, at 12:01 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>
> Yes, the Gus I found is at a Riv dealer in Canada. Having googled until I 
> cannot stand it anymore I ask; anyone have experience with "clearance" fees 
> associated with importing a bicycle frame from Canada? The closest I have 
> come to uncovering the cost is that items valued under $2,500.00 US are 
> less expensive and easier to do than items over $2,500.00. I started a 
> Bikeflights estimate and I get the shipping cost and a message that 
> clearance fees will be calculated and added to order. 
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Platypus ride report

[Patrick Moore]

Tom: congratulations on the Platypus. I'd love to test ride one, set up per
all the Rivendellian specifications, too.

Cold and wind: I'm no arctic rider, but I'm fine down to high teens with
light wind and no rain; secret? 3 things: (1) wool and layers of wool; (2)
add and remove clothing per conditions (I just added the winter
Barley/Junior to my 1999 Joe Starck stripped down gofast exactly to carry
outer layers as temps warm up), and (3) start out a bit cold; don't worry,
you'll warm up in 5 minutes.

My main problem areas in cold weather are ears and fingers. Solutions,
imperfect but they help: balaclavas or wool neck gaiters that you can use
to keep your neck warm and pull up over your head and ears and wear under a
winter cycling cap or helmet; gloves 2 sizes too large; and gloves in
layers instead of big fat down-filled arctic-type gloves. Silk liners under
wool liners under lightly-lined windstop gloves -- I use ex-German Polezei
leather gloves with light fluffy lining and snap wrist straps in XL over L
woolies and M (my real size) silk liners.

Loads and handling: Rivendell brought Carradice saddlebags back to the US
market and later developed with the Sackville line what I believe are truly
the best saddlebags on the market. Why do so many people want front loading
on their Rivendells?

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 7:10 AM Tom Palmer  wrote:

> Hi all,
> After many shortish 8-10mile rides, I finally did a real ride on the
> Platypus. over 20 miles, 37 degrees and rain for about half of it. It was
> actually a pleasant ride because almost no wind. If it was 5 degrees cooler
> or blowing, it would have been miserable and I would have cut it short.
> The bike is brilliant. Did some decent hills (for west Michigan) that
> included nice flowy descents. I put a small front rack and basket and moved
> tool/tube and neck warmer/hat to the rack. Handling not quite as quick as
> with the handlebar bag with same contents. I think the handling was
> affected by the weight being out front more, even though it was lower. Will
> be going to wider bars soon as the Albas just a tiny bit narrow for my
> standing  and rocking the bars climbing technique.
> Back to the brilliance of this Platypus. The bike is a big floaty couch
> that is still quick to accelerate and climb. It handles amazingly well. It
> is my most enigmatic bike by a long way.
>
> Tom (riding as much as possible before real winter strikes) Palmer
> Twin Lake, MI
>
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> 
> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Nivex on a Rivendell?

[Patrick Moore]

Funny. When I saw the header I immediately guessed the price and thought,
"$700?" I thought I would overestimate but apparently not.

I'll be interested in hearing others' reports on it. I'd love to try it,
but a purchase would be foolish given my riding and the fact that I found
the Huret Alvit on the as-new Collegiate I owned 10 years ago to shift
wholly unexceptionally.

Someone do a back-to-back RH/Rivendell derailleur shootout.

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 8:57 AM Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA <
martinpgie...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The Nivex is on the market now, and I really like the look of it. Even at
> $729.00 it feels like money well spent if you want something a little
> different and appreciate all that goes into making something like this.
> KUDOs to Jan for sticking with it.
> Nivex Rear
> 
> [image: Oregon-Outback-RH_Nivex-600x387.jpeg]
>
> For a custom Rivendell, it might make for a very sweet build. If my ship
> comes in I'd be tempted to spring for one, but I'll hold out until I see
> the new Riv rear derailer.
>
> Marty
>
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> 
> .
>


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---
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[RBW] Chain Ring Compatibility

[Chris Dresden]

 Considering using an IRD Lobo 42T 110 CR (10/11) on a 9 speed system but 
IRD wasn't sure it will work on a 9 speed. Anyone else used it? The 42 will 
be the outer ring on a triple.

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Re: [RBW] Saddle height and BPH

[Patrick Moore]

Whoops, that's 4 *centimeters* ...

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 2:13 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I agree that rules of thumb are only starting points. The heel-on-pedal at
> max leg extension puts my saddle a good 3 cm too low as I like a lot of leg
> extension and tend to pedal toe-down. But it's a good starting point.
>
> And get your saddle set back to where it is comfortable before doing
> anything else; IMO and IME, saddle height and setback are the 2 primary
> adjustments around which all others are determined.
>
> But heck, if you've been comfortable with your previous "4-inches-too-low"
> and slammed back saddle -- no hip-rockin', no aching quads, no strained
> whatever it is along the inside of the thigh, you have been doing it right.
>
> But I disagree that standover is a negligible part of fit; try an
> emergency dismount on a steep slope facing uphill.
>
> On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 10:49 AM Jay Lonner  wrote:
>
>> I just took delivery of a new (non-Riv) bike and am dialing in the fit.
>> I’m a little worried that the frame is too big for me, since I only have
>> maybe 2” standover, which seems tight for a gravel bike.
>>
>> So I went out and measured the saddle height on my Hunq (which is a size
>> 62). It came in at about 75cm. This gives me a solid fistful of seatpost.
>> Then I remeasured my PBH, which is 93-94 cm depending on hard I pull. For
>> reference, here’s the relevant page from HQ:
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/pages/pubic-bone-height-how-to-measure-your-pbh
>>
>> This suggests that based on my  PBH my saddle height should be closer to
>> 83 cm – an 8cm discrepancy. Before riding in this morning I raised my
>> saddle height to 79 cm, basically splitting the difference. It felt weird,
>> which of course it would after so many years at 75cm. But I made it in and
>> my feet were in full contact with the pedals without any tippytoe
>> maneuvers. So I guess I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time? Kind of
>> embarrassing. Even so, according to the Riv method my saddle height is
>> still ~4cm lower than my PBH would suggest.
>>
>> So I guess I’m wondering about alternative ways of determining saddle
>> height somewhat objectively, and/or whether I should now be looking at
>> other variables such as a fore-aft saddle positioning, saddle angle, and
>> even saddle type (currently a B68, slammed back as far as it can go on a
>> S83, with the nose pitched up ~10 degrees or so). Other relevant factors
>> might be crank arm length (175mm), pedal height (Pedaling Innovations
>> platform pedals), and shoes (Chuck Taylors, typically). Looking for the
>> optimum balance of comfort, efficiency, and protecting my perineum.
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
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Re: [RBW] Saddle height and BPH

[Patrick Moore]

I agree that rules of thumb are only starting points. The heel-on-pedal at
max leg extension puts my saddle a good 3 cm too low as I like a lot of leg
extension and tend to pedal toe-down. But it's a good starting point.

And get your saddle set back to where it is comfortable before doing
anything else; IMO and IME, saddle height and setback are the 2 primary
adjustments around which all others are determined.

But heck, if you've been comfortable with your previous "4-inches-too-low"
and slammed back saddle -- no hip-rockin', no aching quads, no strained
whatever it is along the inside of the thigh, you have been doing it right.

But I disagree that standover is a negligible part of fit; try an emergency
dismount on a steep slope facing uphill.

On Mon, Dec 12, 2022 at 10:49 AM Jay Lonner  wrote:

> I just took delivery of a new (non-Riv) bike and am dialing in the fit.
> I’m a little worried that the frame is too big for me, since I only have
> maybe 2” standover, which seems tight for a gravel bike.
>
> So I went out and measured the saddle height on my Hunq (which is a size
> 62). It came in at about 75cm. This gives me a solid fistful of seatpost.
> Then I remeasured my PBH, which is 93-94 cm depending on hard I pull. For
> reference, here’s the relevant page from HQ:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/pages/pubic-bone-height-how-to-measure-your-pbh
>
> This suggests that based on my  PBH my saddle height should be closer to
> 83 cm – an 8cm discrepancy. Before riding in this morning I raised my
> saddle height to 79 cm, basically splitting the difference. It felt weird,
> which of course it would after so many years at 75cm. But I made it in and
> my feet were in full contact with the pedals without any tippytoe
> maneuvers. So I guess I’ve been doing it wrong this whole time? Kind of
> embarrassing. Even so, according to the Riv method my saddle height is
> still ~4cm lower than my PBH would suggest.
>
> So I guess I’m wondering about alternative ways of determining saddle
> height somewhat objectively, and/or whether I should now be looking at
> other variables such as a fore-aft saddle positioning, saddle angle, and
> even saddle type (currently a B68, slammed back as far as it can go on a
> S83, with the nose pitched up ~10 degrees or so). Other relevant factors
> might be crank arm length (175mm), pedal height (Pedaling Innovations
> platform pedals), and shoes (Chuck Taylors, typically). Looking for the
> optimum balance of comfort, efficiency, and protecting my perineum.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
>
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>


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Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Andrew Turner]

Tom Bombadill is described as wearing yellow boots and a blue coat which 
was perhaps the inspiration for the frame color. I'll be curious to see if 
John adds some blue accents to the frame...I seem to recall a blue Paul 
rear mech on sale on eBay a few months back... 
On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 9:43:07 PM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> I have a freehub that has a 7-speed and can take an 11/12 without a 
> spacer. Idk what John meant when he said that… maybe CK is different. 
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 4:22:59 PM UTC-8 Andrew Letton wrote:
>
>> I'll add a link to some photos of my original order 2TT 60cm Bombadil:
>> 2009 Rivendell Bombadil 
>>
>> 2009 Rivendell Bombadil
>>
>> Explore this photo album by letton on Flickr!
>> 
>> Most of the photos are from the original build in 2009, but the last two 
>> show a recent iteration here in Australia, complete with Towel Rack bars 
>> and Gravity dropper post.
>>
>> On my most recent bikepacking trip, I found myself the oldest, heaviest, 
>> least-fit rider on the heaviest, most-overpacked bike, so in an effort to 
>> keep my friends from having to wait for me at the top of every hill, I'm in 
>> the process of reconfiguring it yet again with more of a bikepacking theme: 
>> half frame bag, fork bags, handlebar roll, and long, narrow Ortlieb drybag 
>> strapped a Nitto R14 rack (so I can still use the dropper). With the 
>> smaller bags, I'll be less able to pack as many kitchen sinks. ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrew...north of Sydney
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 02:16:17 AM GMT+11, Eric Marth <
>> eric...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're stout, 
>> beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs. While 
>> I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on the 
>> origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>>
>> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about these 
>> bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>>
>> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
>> thread 
>> , 
>> there's 
>> some great info there. 
>>
>> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>>
>> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
>> 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very 
>> into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many 
>> Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose 
>> absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the picture 
>> below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 
>>
>> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>>
>> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I 
>> believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's got 
>> a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike sometime soon. 
>>
>> [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]
>>
>> And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and write-up here 
>> .
>>
>> [image: Johns-Rivendell-Hunqapillar-29er-Klunker-76.jpg] 
>>
>> Are both of these frame names borrowing from Tolkien? I understand RBW 
>> had to stop using Tolkien names. 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: How you choose 2 Rivendells?

[Patrick Moore]

James: No need to apologize at all; you answered my question thoroughly and
clearly --many  thanks. Interesting comparison. I liked the way that my
blue Ram handled, but it felt a bit "sedate" compared to my customs;
perhaps the Legolas would be just enough quicker. And you say it takes 42s,
which I think would be just fat enough as an all rounder sweet spot size
for firm dirt and pavement.

Not that I'll have a chance to test ride a Legolas, but it's nice to think
out loud.

On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 11:14 AM MoVelo  wrote:

> Patrick Moore asked these questions, and since I own both a Ram and
> Legolas I will attempt to answer them. Be forewarned I am not the best
> writer, nor do I believe I am the best at describing the subtleties of
> various different bikes (ie handling, ride and so forth).
>
>  "planing"? -- to the Roadeo or to the Rambouillet, or to the old Road
> Standard or to an older Road Custom?>
>
> The short answers is that my Ram has a lower bottom bracket (7mm) which
> seems a small increment but does make the Ram handle a bet less twitchier
> than the Legolas. I will say I was looking to move the Legolas along until
> I found someone to thread the steerer tube for me. Evidently the flex the
> cockpit now possesses now makes the bike much more comfortable yet still
> comparatively twitcher , or more subject to minute steering inputs, which
> perhaps can be attributed to the one degree steeper seat tube angle?
>
> I currently have my Ram set up 650b which allows me to run a true 42mm
> width which works well for the loose river run gravel the local road
> department folks like to slather about.
> I have no peddle strike issues with the Ram with the 650b conversion, but
> I will say that I do not peddle thru corners.
>
>  handling or feel?>
>
> Yes, the Legolas BB drop is 70mm whilst the Rambouillet BB drop is 70mm.
> In my opinion this does make the Ram feel more stable but slower. The
> Legolas has .5mm longer chain stays than the Ram which should theoretically
> make it a bit more stable.
>
> The head tube angle is the same for the two sizes  have. 59cm for the
> Legolas, 58cm for the Ram.
>
> What I don't know is the weight difference. The Legolas seems lighter to
> me yet stiffer, or less 'planey', but I'm sure the tires make a bigger
> difference in that regard.
>
> 
>
> I am experimenting with this and currently run a Gravel King 43mm up front
>  which is a true 43mm; and a Soma Vitesse 42mm in the back which is
> actually 40mm width. looks like I could squeeze a true 42mm in there if I
> could find one. I see on Rene Herse website they say 44mm is in actuality a
> 42mm on the type of rims I have. I'm not sure the extra 2mm in width back
> there is worth it tho. I am running these with tubes and OS (thanks for the
> huge tip on that), but might experiment with tubeless when the weather
> becomes more agreeable.
>
> Both bikes I would consider all-rounders. The Ram with the 42mm width tire
> is a great gravel/country road bike. I am currently running Panaracer
> Pari-motos which I love. I have the ability to easily change the wheels by
> sliding the Tektro 559's to the top of the slot for 700c and the bottom of
> the slot for 650b. I know a lot of folks on this list do not like the 559s
> breaking feel or strength but I have no complaints. I will say tho that I
> live in the flatlands and do not have miles long descents to contend with.
>
> The Legolas now with the handlebar makeover and my testing with wider
> tires is becoming more lovable. With 35mm or 38mm it is a go fast road
> bike, with the 42mm tires it is a very capable gravel/dirt/country road
> bike.
>
> Let me know if you have more questions. I posted pics of both bikes a few
> days back in this thread if you want to see them.
>
> I apologize that this has gotten a bit long winded and so to quote Twain
> "it would be a lot short if I had more time".
>
>  Cheers
> James P
>
>

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[RBW] Re: The Bombadil on Ebay

['Bryan Dalik' via RBW Owners Bunch]

For anyone that is interested, John Watson of the Radavist scooped up this 
frame super quick (within a few minutes). I sent him a message as he is 
building it up - it's going to get decked out in some very nice retro parts 
as probably a trail centric build. Looking forward to seeing it done.

On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 2:13:00 AM UTC-5 foolis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Wow, this has my silver Bombadil a tad envious. What a beautiful banana 
> frame! 
>
> Does anyone have more production details on the Bombadil? How many frames 
> were made? Mine has always been a machine of lore to me.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] WTB: Wald 137 basket w/o hardware

[Edward Garnica]

Todd, you can purchase any basket and remove the hardware yourself. I did
that with my 139 with a screwdriver and a small pair of pliers. Sometimes
the basket sans hardware can be difficult to find.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 10:39 AM Todd G  wrote:

> Looking for a Wald 137 basket, specifically the model with no hardware as
> it will be secured to a Nitto rack.
>
> If you have one to part with please send me a message, or reply here.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] WTB: Wald 137 basket w/o hardware

[Todd G]

Looking for a Wald 137 basket, specifically the model with no hardware as 
it will be secured to a Nitto rack. 

If you have one to part with please send me a message, or reply here. 

Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Francisco/Bay Area Riv Riders

[Matthew Williams]

Once my ride is back together, count me in!



On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 1:15 AM Luke Hendrickson 
wrote:

> Slin & Brendan – stoked!
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:51:25 AM UTC-8 Brendan Willard in SF
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in Nob Hill, SF.  I'll be in Hawaii until the 10th, but count me in
>> for future rides anywhere in the Bay Area.
>>
>> Brendan
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 7:27:01 AM UTC-8 Slin wrote:
>>
>>> Luke  - I won't be in town for the 31/1st, but I'll join in on later
>>> dates for sure!
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 10:17:05 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>>
 Eric – it’d be fun to ch3ck out your neck of the woods.

 Jay – into it. Also suuuper game for Marin-based rides, too. I love it
 up there. Just did Bolinas Ridge on my Atlantis.

 Zac – sick!

 It goes without saying that having a Riv or riding a Riv to hang out is
 super not required.

 On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 8:41:58 PM UTC-8 zac.te...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> into it. 31st or 1st works for me if it gets nailed down.
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 8:08:17 PM UTC-8 Jay P wrote:
>
>> I'd also appreciate the invitation for Bay Area rides and to meet
>> some of yous
>>
>> Jay P
>>
>> Marin
>>
>> On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 9:16:48 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all! I know that it’s been a bit wet & cold, but I’d love to see
>>> if anyone would want to have a little ride in the coming week(s). 
>>> Perhaps
>>> even a New Year’s day ride to celebrate in the new year in style?
>>>
>>> I’m in the City proper and was thinking about some mixed terrain
>>> around town while keeping it mostly road-ish so that no one’s limited by
>>> the ride route. Pastries + hot drinks + more snacks?
>>>
>>> I’d love to hear from anyone interested or even connect with other
>>> like-minded people for more than just a one-off ride. 
>>>
>> --
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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] For sale: Suntour hats

[Eric Marth]

Hello — I shipped out hats yesterday and emailed everyone to let them know. 
Thought I'd post here in case I missed anyone. 

Thanks! 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 9:30:13 AM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:

> Thanks, Brendon. Shipping to Australia will be $20 which sounds high but 
> might be reasonable considering rates overall. The hats weight 4oz and I 
> can send them in a plastic mailer bag. 
>
> Next batch will be on charcoal black hats with white embroidery. Here's a 
> computer rendering using the latest AI tech and a picture of the blanks. 
> Caps have a cloth strap and no branding. 
>
> They're available for $30 shipped, CON-US. I can ship internationally but 
> let me know your country and postal code so I can work up a quote. 
>
> I don't have the hats on hand but I'm taking pre-orders. I placed the 
> order two days ago and they'll be ready in about two weeks, barring any 
> delays from vendors. 
>
> [image: unnamed.jpg]
> [image: unnamed.png]
> On Friday, December 2, 2022 at 7:40:57 PM UTC-5 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> It is such a nice hat Eric, I would love one but shipping to Aus would be 
>> more than the hat.
>> :(
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[Garth]

FWIW, my 2010 or so 700c 60cm Waterford Bomba could clear 65mm fenders with 
ease using cantilever brakes. I have SKS 53mm ones on there no and they 
have plenty of room. The 65 require just a smidge of modification for the 
fork blades. I bought some VO's but decided against using them unless I 
modified the lower front mount to go down lover as the stock holes are 
right where your toes could catch on them. Sheesh  The canti's I've 
used are the Shimano MC-70's, M732/34/whatever, and Dia Compe 988's. If you 
chop off the trailing portion of wonky Kool Stop offset and too long posted 
pads, they will clear the stays. I hate long/offest pads that don't clear 
the stays, just the dumbest design, ever. Dia Compe 988's come with road 
sized, centered smooth post pads, those are the best !  Stock Suntour XC 
Pro pads are that size too. Longer pads offer no better braking. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive thread

[J J]

Jay, I run cantis. I’ve never used Motolites or any other V brakes. I’m 
stubborn about some things and I just love my cantis! I’m curious if the 
Motolites would work, though — if anyone else reading this has tried them 
with the 65 SKS, please chime in. 

On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 11:12:44 PM UTC-5 Jay Lonner wrote:

> Are you using cantis or linear pull brakes with the 65 SKS fenders? When 
> my Big Bens wear out I’m thinking of switching to Antelope Hills, and am 
> hoping they’ll work with Motolites and fenders. 
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA 
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Dec 14, 2022, at 5:35 PM, J J  wrote:
>
> James, I can’t enumerate the all the differences, but I’m running René 
> Herse 29" x 2.2" (700C x 55) Antelope Hill tires on my green Waterford Hunq 
> 58, built in 2012, and there’s clearance to spare. Even with the 65 SKS 
> fenders. I know early literature on Hunqs said that 55 was the maximum 
> width. Later literature said the max was 2.3/58. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:37:40 PM UTC-5 mcgr...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> What are the differences between Hunqapillar generations?  I have a July 
>> 2010 Waterford 62cm.  Right now it's got 2.1" Schwalbe Thunder Burts.  I 
>> think getting 2.2" tires on the back would be dicey.  Did the green 
>> generation of the frame have bigger clearance?  Longer wheelbase?
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2022 at 7:26:45 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> One more note that I didn't think of until I hit submit - the batch 
>>> differences that exist on Bombadils (and maybe Hunqapillars too) are more 
>>> significant than the difference between a Bombadil and a Hunq if you remove 
>>> the location of manufacture from the equation. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 16:24:22 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Just catching this now, hey thanks for the shoutout Eric! And it means 
 a lot that you said that about the forest photo! That was a special day, 
 first ride on the rebuild after paint.

 I don't have nearly the historical knowledge that many here do, and a 
 lot has already been said. But here are my summarized thoughts between the 
 two anyway, beyond the obvious difference of location of manufacture. The 
 Hunqapillar seems to me like a "v2" Bombadil - they increased tire 
 clearance over the Bombadil from 2.1 to 2.4" on most sizes, they made 
 little geometry tweaks but just a smidge here and there, and notably they 
 made the frame more cost-effective by not only changing suppliers but by 
 simplifying the design a bit. 

 To me they are still both "ATB" Rivendells, made to tackle trails 
 loaded or not, and also be comfortable to ride on pavement as long as 
 you're not in too much of a rush. When it comes to which is more coveted, 
 it really comes down to whether the little superfluous (but beautiful) 
 details on the Bombadil are important to you, and/or which paint job and 
 geometry specifics suit you better. I think of them like the Appaloosa and 
 Atlantis - basically two flavors of the same bike.   

  

 On Sunday, 11 December 2022 at 07:16:08 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> It seems the Bombadil and Hunqapillar frames are beloved. They're 
> stout, beautiful, and sometimes have intricate additional tubes and lugs. 
> While I've done a lot of reading about Rivendell I was a bit unclear on 
> the 
> origins and intended uses of these frames. 
>
> I wanted to start a thread where we could share and dump info about 
> these bikes along with pictures of builds. 
>
> Joe and Jim were helpful in laying out a bit of background in another 
> thread 
> ,
>  there's 
> some great info there. 
>
> The original Hunqapillar catalog is up here: 
> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Hunqapillar.pdf
>
> The first mention I can find of the Bombadil is in RR 41, sometime in 
> 2009. Excerpted pages attached. As a few members might recall I am very 
> into raw frames with brass spilling out of the lugs! I know that many 
> Bombadil owners have had their frames repainted like Jason Fuller, whose 
> absolute stunner shows up here from time to time. By the way, the picture 
> below is one of my very favorite Rivendell images. 
>
> [image: Jason Bombadil green.jpg]
>
> There's also the butter-banana Bombadil that recently sold on eBay. I 
> believe that one was purchased by John Watson of the Radavist (and he's 
> got 
> a Hunq) so we might see some nice pics of that bike sometime soon. 
>
> [image: s-l1600-2.jpg]
>
> And speaking of, here's John's Hunqapillar, more images and write-up 
> here .
>
> [image: