Re: [RBW] Re: Personal Experiences Request.

[Patrick Cronin]

Hugh,

Here's a quick observation from master wheel builder Bill Mould, who 
inspected my abused White Industries MI5/Velocity Dyad wheelset:

Bill took a magnifying glass to each and every spoke hole and nipple and 
found significant flaking and cracks. He recommended replacing the rim. 
Next, he said, "let's see about this hub." He spun it in his hands and 
said, "Here, you hold this wheel while I spin it and then we'll swap it 
with this wheel over here with a brand new MI5 hub." There was no 
observable difference in feel. He then took the old wheel and placed it on 
the truing stand and spun it slowly; we laughed as it just kept on turning, 
refusing to stop. He smiled and said, "arguably the best hub ever made."

Spend the money on the White Industries hub. 

-Patrick



On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 6:35:02 AM UTC-5 Steve Cole wrote:

> Hugh,  You and I seem to share the same aesthetic.  About a year ago, I 
> purchased a long chain stay Atlantis.  I also wanted silver hubs and rims. 
>  I worked with James and Candice, the great folks at Analog Cycles, to make 
> my dream bike.  It has a James-recommended silver 36H Bitex BX103R rear hub 
> fitted to a 9 cog cassette, a silver  Schmidt SON Deluxe Wide body QR 32H 
> Front Hub, Velocity Quill Rims, and Sapim Race spokes.  These wheels are 
> shod with Rene Horse 700C x 55 Antelope Hill gum wall tires.  I love my 
> wheels, not to mention my Atlantis. I would not change a thing.  Not 
> inexpensive, but I expect this great bike to be the one bike for the 
> remainder of my riding.  Good luck,
>
> Steve Cole
> Arlington, VA
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 5:47:41 AM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Prowheelbuilder.com has the silver color Shimano 105 (R7000) rear hub for 
>> $61 and front for $36.  105 is a longer tested product than V-O, if you can 
>> live with a non polished finish, and the price is certainly right.  I built 
>> a 650B set with these hubs and Velocity Synergy rims.  More recently I 
>> bought a set of wheels with A23 rims and like them so far.  I have 38mm 
>> tires on both wheelsets. A third wheelset has the polished White Ind hubs 
>> and Synergy wheels and 32mm tires. All of them ride just fine. 
>>
>> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 2:34:54 AM UTC-6 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> You don't sound argumentative and I appreciate your opinion.
>>>
>>> Is that article online? If it is, I'd appreciate a link, I'm curious to 
>>> read Jan's opinion on this matter. I was expressing someone else's belief 
>>> which I think I mentioned. I have had various experiences with larger tires 
>>> and depending on the rim and psi I've felt the tire roll or collapse on 
>>> cornering. Probably user error, running too low of a tire pressure. I've 
>>> had 2.1 thunder burts on a 23mm rim and 2.8 and 3.0's on a DT Swiss 40mm 
>>> rim and on my AHH I ran Velocity A23's with numerous tires from 38 to 42mm. 
>>> As far as the Pacenti rims I think my buddies opinion was simply the j hook 
>>> that holds the bead on isn't a good as say the HED's but good god $165 per 
>>> rim. I actually like the look of the Pacenti rim. Although I can't recall 
>>> where I heard this but they were difficult to set up tubeless? I may be 
>>> wrong on this matter. If you have first had experience with the Pacenti I'm 
>>> happy to listen/hear.
>>>
>>> Best, 
>>>
>>> ~Hugh
>>>
>>> “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep 
>>> moving.” ― Albert Einstein
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Ben Miller  wrote:
>>>
 Hi Hugh,

 Sounds like you know what you are after in terms of rim size, and yeah 
 as you found I think you're choices in silver are limited. 

 I'm not trying to argue or change you're mind, but I am going to offer 
 a counterpoint to anyone else you is following this thread. Jan of Bicycle 
 Quarterly has opinion that rim width on larger tyres doesn't effect 
 handling. He has a brief section in his recent book on this very subject 
 called "rim width and cornering" that includes a compelling (to me) 
 example. And, from my own experience, I have 60 mm wide tyres on Velocity 
 Dyads which have an internal width of 18.6 mm.

 Everyone has their own experiences and preferences, which is one of the 
 best things about building up bikes because you get to express that. I'm 
 sure you'll be happy with you're piece of mind on wider rims! Best of luck.


 On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 9:29:32 PM UTC-8 Weston Hein wrote:

> The wheelset on my Clem is built from the previous generation VO 
> touring hubs (same manufacturer?)  laced to Cliffhangers. I've run 2.35 
> G-One speeds and 55mm Antelope hills on them and both tires set up very 
> easily tubeless using velocity rim tape. 
>
> I'm really happy with the hubs- they feel really smooth and have 
> minimal resistance when spinning them in the 

[RBW] Re: A Hydraulic Disc Brake Rivendell...

[Patrick Cronin]

Bill,

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on how that hydraulic lever/caliper 
works as a tandem brake compared to a drag brake set up. My HHH has a Paul 
Klamper linked to a DuraAce bar-end shifter on the stoker's bosco end. The 
captain's controls are XTR V-brakes like yours. My stokers are used to 
actuating an Arai drum brake with a friction shifter, so my thinking was 
that setting up the HHH with a drag function, rather than with a 
traditional lever, would be most similar. In practice, that has held only 
somewhat true because the efficiency of the Klamper is exponentially 
greater than a drum; my 4-year old delights in testing the friction 
threshold of the rear tire using the Klamper, a feat the Arai drum brake 
could never accomplish even with herculean effort. The Klamper/bar-end 
set-up works like a dream on long descents because it can be set and stay 
on for minutes, if necessary, just like the old Arai drum.

Do you prefer to have the stoker feather the rear disc brake rather than 
have the Captain feather using the V-brakes? How do you handle this with 
communication/commands? Generally, I go with, "brake on", "more", "good", 
and "brake off". The stoker brake then is only used for drag applications, 
never feathered or for short bursts. Thus, I have no experience Captaining 
with a Stoker who has a traditional brake lever.

Cheers,
Patrick

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 9:49:57 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Tonight I finally got around to an upgrade that I'd been planning for a 
> long long time.  I installed a hydraulic disc brake on the back of my 
> Rivendell HubbuHubbuH tandem.  I'd been making do with XTR V-brakes, but 
> have had a few situations where I definitely wanted a bit more.  Now I have 
> a reliable no-nonsense Shimano M447 hydro disc for the stoker to actuate.  
> Shimano hydro discs work absurdly well, are dead simple to work on, cost 
> practically nothing.  It's a win win win.  I also installed a stoker bell.  
>
> One of my favorite stokers is coming back from college for the holidays, 
> so the upgrades serve as a welcome back.  
>
> Pics prove even big bikes can enjoy their time in the stand:
>
> Hydro brake lever | Flickr 
>  
> Cheap Shimano Hydro Drag | A Shimano M447 hydro caliper give… | Flickr 
>  
> Stoker Bell | This mini Crane gives the stoker a friendly wa… | Flickr 
> 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/34ca478c-266f-478d-995a-9324779f88e2n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Weirdest Rivendell ideas?

[Patrick Cronin]

Custom design and fabrication of a friction shifter in 2020.
Custom design and fabrication of cantilever brakes in 2020.

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 7:43:36 PM UTC-4 J L wrote:

> Remember Foss tubes? I like that Riv has always tried to be out of the 
> box. Stick shifting?
>
> What are some of the other head scratcher ideas and products from 
> yesteryear? None of them have ever been dumb.
>
> This is in praise of creative thinking and taking chances.
>
> Cheers
> Jason

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/48175547-eb0d-4c59-acb2-7c8bb81aeb7cn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Fender clearance

[Patrick Cronin]

Your fender will eventually rub off the paint on the inside of both 
chainstays. Rust will likely develop afterward. 

-Patrick

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:10:57 AM UTC-4 Sam Perez wrote:

> This is the chain stay. Any thoughts on the rolled edges on the near 
> sidewalls.
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 7:56 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> It would be better to have a bit more clearance at the side, even for a 
>> rear tire, but the critical gap is at the top of the tire, and as long as 
>> this is close to 5 mm and as long as the tire has no knobs, I think it will 
>> be fine. I have slightly less than 5 mm clearance under the top of my rear 
>> fender over the Big One, and it has caused no problems. Of course, you'll 
>> want a much wider safety margin in front.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 8:16 AM Sam Perez  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a steel frame that was designed around a 650x42 tire, I wanted to 
>>> go a little wider fir more buoyancy.so I tried a pari moto 48. Is this 
>>> enough clearance?  the tight spot is in the crimped fender /chain stay 
>>> area. What's good clearance? What's minimal clearance ? 
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkMtsFi4gNa031OJ_bvxucjXVhS%2BmaC5CRvt5UhoQODag%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgv4sFQP4WV%2BLC6FTiSXhH8TK7k9RkZKytzApU626mBY4A%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/24019f34-bb27-49e6-952f-3922ac375b49n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Best saddle for very upright posture?

[Patrick Cronin]

The only similar visual I could find was a Troll with 
Boscos: 
https://forums.mtbr.com/attachments/surly/828213d1377900206-surly-troll-troll-3-side-small.jpg
 
Looks like they are running a Thompson setback post (or similar) and even 
then their saddle is all the way aft. Their stem is about as long as they 
come. Curious what you end up with.
-Patrick

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 11:28:48 AM UTC-4 Jesse Stoddard wrote:

> In addition to running Boscos, I have my Ogre setup with a 7 inch 
> threadless stem riser. So yeah, I'm bolt upright, hands slightly behind the 
> steering axis etc. I love it. Also I run two sets of Surly's dropout 
> spacers in the back, yielding ~46cm stays. 
>
> The 73 degree STA is too steep for sit-up-and-beg I'm finding, so in 
> conjunction with a long setback post, looks like I'll have to run something 
> like the WTB saddle Pete suggested. 
>
> Still wondering about how far back I can get the Loveland and C67, too. 
> Also have never been on a saddle as short as the Loveland and wonder if 
> that would agree with me.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b94359ba-3600-45e9-a8a5-e6f473711f91n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Best saddle for very upright posture?

[Patrick Cronin]

The Ogre, with its super sloping top tube, tends not to have handlebars 
above saddle height. The title of this post is, "very upright posture". Not 
too many Ogres are set up that way. Based on the information you've 
provided, it seems like you need a longer stem or a stem with more rise, 
but that may not be the case. Plenty of Ogres out there with B17, Flyers, 
and Cambiums, but hardly ever with B67.

-Patrick

On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 10:35:35 AM UTC-4 Jesse Stoddard wrote:

> Okay, so I borrowed a B17 this morning and set it up on my Ogre (73 seat 
> tube angle) with a Velo Orange long setback post (30mm setback), and even 
> with the saddle slammed, still didn't have enough setback. Also couldn't 
> get the nose angled up high enough. Within the next couple years I intend 
> to own a frame with a slacker seat tube angle, but in the interim I'll have 
> to come up with something with rails that will allow for greater setback, 
> which I understand is a feature of the Rivet Loveland. 
>
> I'm pretty curious about that C67, too. Any owners of which in this group?
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c0ee5c7a-f9d6-4dfe-8679-e77425cc84c2n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Best saddle for very upright posture?

[Patrick Cronin]

Selle Anatomica also has a loyal following. The only leather saddles I've 
ridden are Brooks. B17 saddles (unsprung) do ok for upright, but the flyer 
(basically a sprung B17) is better. I have a Flyer on my Hunqapillar. For 
super upright riding, the B67, wide and sprung, is touted as superior (and 
I have one on my Hubbuhubbuh tandem), but I prefer the flyer. The reason 
has to do with my sit bones (narrow) and bottom mass (minimal). For those 
with wider sit bones and more bottom mass, the B67 would likely be ideal 
and the flyer too narrow. Both the Flyer and the B67 come in "short" 
versions for women and smaller riders.

Another Brooks saddle to consider, but one I have not tried, is the Cambium 
C67 ( https://www.brooksengland.com/en_us/c67.html ). 

-Patrick
On Tuesday, October 13, 2020 at 7:42:42 AM UTC-4 Jesse wrote:

> What I really want is a sprung Brooks, but I'm not heavy enough to actuate 
> the springs. Can't afford a Berthoud.
>
> The only other option I know of is the Rivet Loveland, which I've heard is 
> excellent quality.
>
> Anything else to consider?
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/cb016a2a-2126-4d7e-bfb3-ef4438b3b35bn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Phil Wood bolt on rear hub

[Patrick Cronin]

May I ask, what did you hope to gain from the switch? 

Are you breaking spokes and noticing wheel flex on the quick release axle? 
If so, I'm not sure the Hillibike is what you need. Perhaps a smaller 
diameter wheel, not a solid axle, would provide the strength you need.

Cheers,

Patrick


On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 11:22:33 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Just received my 135mm 9 speed 48 spoke Phil Wood touring hub that 
> was converted to bolt-on. The Phil touring hubs had smaller drive side 
> flanges in order to equalize spoke lengths so that riders on tour only 
> needed to carry one length of extra spokes. I bought this in a set of 
> wheels from Peter White in 2011. There was nothing wrong with the wheels, 
> still ran true, but I find myself wanting wider rims than the Chukkers 
> now. The front 48 spoke SON hub from the wheelset is destined for my Riv 
> Cargo bike commuter. This hub is destined for a 48 spoke 700C Velocity 
> Cliffhanger for my Gus Boots Willsen. The front is a 40 spoke bolt-on Phil 
> Wood hub that I got in a great deal on eBay. Once I had it, I decided that 
> bolt-on made sense on a Hillibike, so I unlaced the old wheel and sent the 
> rear hub back to PW for conversion. Still looks and feels new. That is the 
> old QR axle and spacers in front.
> [image: IMG_0692 (2).jpg]
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a3e528ed-61a3-4506-9100-1ddd0a0e67bcn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: MUSA pants and shorts replacement elastic band?

[Patrick Cronin]

Edwin,

I've tried two replacements, both 1". One was from Amazon and it was total 
crap. The other was from JoAnn Fabric and it is perfect! The latter was 
"non-roll" and after comparing the two, I now understand what that means, 
i.e. the Amazon one was so thin that it rolls lengthwise, whereas the JoAnn 
band has ribbing that stops it from rolling or doubling over.
 Here's a link with different colors:
https://www.joann.com/sewing/sewing-and-quilting-supplies/elastic/

I've also ditched the buckle and gone with a 1" plastic strap adjuster...

Cheers,
Patrick
On Monday, August 31, 2020 at 8:16:00 AM UTC-4 Edwin W wrote:

> Has anyone replaced the elastic band on their MUSA pants or shorts? I 
> replaced with climbing webbing, but it has no stretch. I would love to hear 
> of a tried a true source, as it is hard to see how thick the bands are 
> online, and I am not sure where to even go in person to find such a thing.
> I think it is a 15mm elastic band.
>
> Thanks for any advice,
>
> Edwin
> Nashville
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7f0b4042-998a-4c21-9f09-50258da271bfn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

@Jeff, I appreciate your story especially as the owner of two tandems. I, 
too, am surprised that your front wheel was more impacted than your rear 
wheel. In years of racing and now un-racing, I've never checked/inspected 
rims before *every* ride and I still don't see any need with rim brakes. If 
I were running disc brakes I'd be inclined to check rims more often. As 
soon as I saw my cracked rim I cut out the Phil hub and shipped it off to 
be rebuilt. However, Chris Murray's rim failure story has me thinking that 
I should have inspected the rim more often after discovering the bulging 
rim and possibly replaced it sooner. If I have a similar experience on a 
front wheel I will certainly retire it sooner. That is the whole reason I 
posted in the first place--to noodle on the experience and seek input from 
others. Thanks for yours!

Cheers,
Patrick

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 2:12:47 AM UTC-5, Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
> Patrick, I have to agree with what Jim Bronson kindly suggests/advises.
>
> My wife and I ride tandem.  Late last year I built up a set of wheels with 
> new rims (Velocity Dyads).  We were on a night ride with our local cycling 
> club.  We were headed downhill on a decent hill and struck a very large dip 
> in the road which I, as the Captain, did not see (my bad).  It was quite 
> severe and jolted the heck out of us.  We have a good headlight too.  We 
> immediately had a pinch flat on the front and I was able to fortunately 
> keep us up and stop in a calm manner.  Whew!  Caught our breaths and fixed 
> the flat and got going.  
>
> I took both wheels off to check.  I found a very large bulge on the front 
> rim (36 hole).  I took the tube and tire off and checked the spokes. All 
> the spokes were amazingly intact.  The rim took the brunt of the force 
> absorbing most of the energy.  The rear wheel was not nearly as bad (which 
> is interesting) with a much less pronounced bulge.  The rear is 40 hole, 
> but most of our weight was on it.  BUT, I have in the garage two (2) brand 
> new Velocity Dyad rims, ready to be re-laced up.
>
> Maybe reconsider eventual replacement of parts that take normal wear and 
> tear.  Enough said.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 12:32:51 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>> Rivendells are great bikes and the owners are usually experienced 
>> cyclists, which has me all the more scratching my head about this thread.
>>
>> You'd be better off not ignoring signs of impending rim failure, like an 
>> obvious and severe rim braking surface crack, than making any sort of moral 
>> equivocation about what brake types are best for safety.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but riding this for 1000 miles was not a good idea.  If it 
>> were me, the first time I noticed it, I would have nursed the bike home and 
>> immediately replaced it.
>>
>> I replaced one of my back rims a while ago for some barely noticeable 
>> surface cracks, and another one more recently when the eyelets started 
>> pulling through.  There's no way I would have ridden with the damage that 
>> you depict in your picture.
>>
>> Does anyone remember "ABC Quick Check every time you ride"?  It's a good 
>> idea.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Patrick Cronin <patrick...@gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> After riding a bulging 40-spoke Velocity Dyad rim on my Hunqapillar for 
>>> too long it finally cracked. The only way I knew about the bulge is because 
>>> once per rotation the wheel rubbed *both* brake pads. The wheel was 
>>> never out of true, so I kept riding it ~1000 miles. I decided to rebuild 
>>> the wheel only because I hit a sand/salt patch on the road, skidded about 
>>> ten feet when the rim hit the brake pads and I nearly went down. Most 
>>> notable is that I never flatted, as in not once since this wheel was built 
>>> in 2011. I'm curious if I would have known about the issue had I been 
>>> running disc brakes. That got me thinking more: I wonder if rim brakes are 
>>> safer for this reason. Had I been running discs I likely would have had a 
>>> catastrophic rim failure because, other than cosmetic, there would have 
>>> been no indication of a problem. Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>> -Patrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7YsTmvCvYnY/Wpay8RfsJeI/srY/azDpm_9nqTgfXd0uBXN694VubKvvY9K9wCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_0002.jpg>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

Re: [RBW] Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

@Jim, there were no signs of impending rim failure except for a slight 
symmetrical bulge. The first time I noticed the brake rub I thought the 
wheel was simply out of true. It took a truing stand to detect the 
symmetrical bulge. Even after that the rim seemed fine. I now know 
otherwise. With that said, the rim did last another 1000 miles, so your 
definition of 'impending' may differ from mine.

-Patrick

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 3:32:51 PM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> Rivendells are great bikes and the owners are usually experienced 
> cyclists, which has me all the more scratching my head about this thread.
>
> You'd be better off not ignoring signs of impending rim failure, like an 
> obvious and severe rim braking surface crack, than making any sort of moral 
> equivocation about what brake types are best for safety.
>
> I'm sorry, but riding this for 1000 miles was not a good idea.  If it were 
> me, the first time I noticed it, I would have nursed the bike home and 
> immediately replaced it.
>
> I replaced one of my back rims a while ago for some barely noticeable 
> surface cracks, and another one more recently when the eyelets started 
> pulling through.  There's no way I would have ridden with the damage that 
> you depict in your picture.
>
> Does anyone remember "ABC Quick Check every time you ride"?  It's a good 
> idea.
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 8:33 AM, Patrick Cronin <patrick...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> After riding a bulging 40-spoke Velocity Dyad rim on my Hunqapillar for 
>> too long it finally cracked. The only way I knew about the bulge is because 
>> once per rotation the wheel rubbed *both* brake pads. The wheel was 
>> never out of true, so I kept riding it ~1000 miles. I decided to rebuild 
>> the wheel only because I hit a sand/salt patch on the road, skidded about 
>> ten feet when the rim hit the brake pads and I nearly went down. Most 
>> notable is that I never flatted, as in not once since this wheel was built 
>> in 2011. I'm curious if I would have known about the issue had I been 
>> running disc brakes. That got me thinking more: I wonder if rim brakes are 
>> safer for this reason. Had I been running discs I likely would have had a 
>> catastrophic rim failure because, other than cosmetic, there would have 
>> been no indication of a problem. Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> -Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7YsTmvCvYnY/Wpay8RfsJeI/srY/azDpm_9nqTgfXd0uBXN694VubKvvY9K9wCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_0002.jpg>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
>> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> signature goes here
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

@Mark, the symmetry of the bulge was diagnosed in a truing stand. 
Everything looked great about the rim except for a <2mm bulge on each side. 
There wasn't excessive wear observed by eye or finger. I did not measure 
the thickness of the wall to confirm wear, though. And admittedly there was 
not a flat spot to indicate impact damage to the top of the walls. The 
reason I'm convinced it is impact related is that a buddy and I were 
bombing down a rutted gravel road at about 30mph and I hit a rock and 
bottomed out badly. We stopped to see if I pinch-flatted, but I had not. 
The bulging did not happen that day or even that week, but it was soon 
thereafter that a slight rub started and I put the wheel in a truing stand. 
It is entirely possible (maybe probable) that brake wear contributed to the 
weakness of the rim. I chose to ride the rim another 1000 miles because the 
rim seemed fine otherwise. I'm not sure that was advisable. 

-Patrick


On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 3:12:11 PM UTC-5, Mark Anderson wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 9:06:40 AM UTC-6, Patrick Cronin wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty sure an impact caused the bulging as both sides were equally 
>> protruding when the rubbing first happened. 
>>
>
> Is your evidence that both sides were bulging equally the observation that 
> the rim would strike both brake pads at the bulge? 
>
> Striking both pads does not imply a symmetric bulge.  A one-sided bulge 
> will rub both brake pads as long as the bulge is big enough to take up the 
> total pad clearance on both sides of the rim.  The bulge pushing on the 
> proximate brake pad will cause the opposite brake pad to be pulled against 
> the other, non-bulging, side of the rim. 
>
> I have a similarly worn-out and cracked rim that I should get around to 
> fixing someday.  It binds both brake pads, but only one side bulges, as 
> measured on a truing stand.  BTW, the bulge can only be measured with an 
> inflated tire.  Take off the tire, the bulge relaxes and the rim seems 
> perfectly true.
>
> -- 
> Mark
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

@Chris, You present a fine point and now have me paranoid!

-Patrick

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 2:55:18 PM UTC-5, Christopher Murray 
wrote:
>
> I had a rim fail like this but it happened very quickly. I didn’t notice 
> anything until the wheel locked up and I came to a skidding halt. I managed 
> to keep the bike upright but it was a pretty scary experience. On a front 
> wheel especially it could be a very dangerous failure. I think of this as a 
> downside to rim brakes not a feature or benefit. 
>
> Cheers, 
> Chris

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

I didn't crash. By listening to and feeling the rim brakes I was forced to 
remove the wheel before it completely failed. I'm not sure that would have 
happened with disc brakes. However, perhaps I should have stopped using the 
wheel earlier. I'm simply exploring one possible way that rim and disc 
brakes are different. Some have already suggested that maybe my rim would 
not have cracked had the pads not rubbed into the rim, thus calling into 
question any added benefit rim brakes might have otherwise. I respect that 
line of logic. I find little credibility in a rider suggesting that "all it 
takes is a second to look at a rim to see if there is damage" because rim 
brake pads give far more feedback than the eyeball in terms of vertical and 
lateral consistency. The original bulge was imperceptible to the eye. 

Calling me absurd for riding a bulging rim would have been for more tactful!

-Patrick

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-5, nash...@gmail.com 
wrote:
>
> But you ignored the bulge for 1000 miles and only fixed it when you 
> crashed.  All it takes is a second to look at a rim to see if there is 
> damage.  What good is this safety method if you don't do anything about it?
>
> Why do people like to find reasons why rim brakes are better than disc 
> brwkes?  It is equally absurd as people finding reasons why disc brakes are 
> better than rim brakes.  They are just different. 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

I'm not really concerned with what caused this particular crack. I'm more 
interested in knowing whether rim brakes provide a sort of built-in wheel 
health test once-per-rotation in a way that disc brakes do not. Ever since 
I read about the ENVE failure scandal in PinkBike 
(https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/so-enve-rims/) I wondered if disc 
brake users are not getting as much wheel/rim feedback as rim-brake users. 
Let's not get carried away with an alloy vs. crabon argument.

-Patrick

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 10:31:16 AM UTC-5, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> The impact may have brought on the cracks but chances are the rim was 
> weakened from the brakes wearing down the brake tracks. Rim wear is just a 
> fact of life with rim brakes. An easy way to check for rim wear is to feel 
> the brake tracks with your finger. As they get thin enough to crack they 
> take on a pronounced "c" shape as tire pressure flexes the top of the rim 
> outwards. I recommend replacing your rims as soon as they exhibit this 
> shape. Yours cracked slowly but they can fail catastrophically, blowing off 
> the tire and causing a loss of control.
>
> I still like rim brakes!
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

Steve,

I'm pretty sure an impact caused the bulging as both sides were equally 
protruding when the rubbing first happened. However, one could argue that 
the wear on the braking surface caused *greater* damage due to the impact.

-Patrick

On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 9:47:27 AM UTC-5, stevef wrote:
>
> Kind of a causality paradox since this crack was most likely caused by 
> wear of the brake surface.  Disc brakes don't cause that sort of wear.
>
> On Wednesday, February 28, 2018 at 9:33:09 AM UTC-5, Patrick Cronin wrote:
>>
>>
>> After riding a bulging 40-spoke Velocity Dyad rim on my Hunqapillar for 
>> too long it finally cracked. The only way I knew about the bulge is because 
>> once per rotation the wheel rubbed *both* brake pads. The wheel was 
>> never out of true, so I kept riding it ~1000 miles. I decided to rebuild 
>> the wheel only because I hit a sand/salt patch on the road, skidded about 
>> ten feet when the rim hit the brake pads and I nearly went down. Most 
>> notable is that I never flatted, as in not once since this wheel was built 
>> in 2011. I'm curious if I would have known about the issue had I been 
>> running disc brakes. That got me thinking more: I wonder if rim brakes are 
>> safer for this reason. Had I been running discs I likely would have had a 
>> catastrophic rim failure because, other than cosmetic, there would have 
>> been no indication of a problem. Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> -Patrick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7YsTmvCvYnY/Wpay8RfsJeI/srY/azDpm_9nqTgfXd0uBXN694VubKvvY9K9wCLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_0002.jpg>
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Cracked Rim & Safety

[Patrick Cronin]

After riding a bulging 40-spoke Velocity Dyad rim on my Hunqapillar for too 
long it finally cracked. The only way I knew about the bulge is because 
once per rotation the wheel rubbed *both* brake pads. The wheel was never 
out of true, so I kept riding it ~1000 miles. I decided to rebuild the 
wheel only because I hit a sand/salt patch on the road, skidded about ten 
feet when the rim hit the brake pads and I nearly went down. Most notable 
is that I never flatted, as in not once since this wheel was built in 2011. 
I'm curious if I would have known about the issue had I been running disc 
brakes. That got me thinking more: I wonder if rim brakes are safer for 
this reason. Had I been running discs I likely would have had a 
catastrophic rim failure because, other than cosmetic, there would have 
been no indication of a problem. Thoughts?


-Patrick






-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Front rack for panniers and handlebar bag

[Patrick Cronin]

No mention of the Surly Front Rack? I've used both v1 and v2; the 
difference is width. v2 tips the scales at just over 3lbs, but it can 
support 70lbs. I have v2 on my HHH and have had v1 on my Hunqapillar. 
Blurry pic shows the former.

-Patrick



On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 7:59:41 PM UTC-5, John G. wrote:
>
> Hey folks,
>
> I'm looking for recommendations for a front rack that will let me use 
> lowrider panniers AND a handlebar bag. I'm sure the Nitto Big Front Rack 
> works, but has anyone used something else and loved it?
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuh is finished!

[Patrick Cronin]

René,

Your bike looks great! It is interesting to see the blue cables stand out 
less on the complete build than they did in your first set of photos. I'll 
be curious to see if my Klamper has issues like you describe. Before 
bending the tabs I wonder if the in and outboard adjusters on the Klamper 
could be loosened to allow the rotor to spin without contact; the effect 
would be a drag brake like a drum rather than having the close tolerance 
and power of a primary stopper. As far as the video is concerned, I'd like 
to recommend disregarding the last step as it applies to clipless pedals. 
Having ridden a tandem with my wife for years and then with my sons, the 
start is much easier without clipless pedals. I'd recommend you tell your 
son (and your wife) to start pedaling and NOT stop. The video shows the 
stoker stop pedaling to allow the captain to clip in. Without clipless 
pedals, this pause is unnecessary and makes for a much smoother start, just 
as it does on a single bike. One other recommendation I have is to shift 
gears before you stop; as you coast toward a stop (and literally announce, 
"coast" to your stoker), shift gears (and literally announce, "shift" and 
spin one rotation). What this affords is the ability for the stoker to 
easily pedal the bicycle forward when you start again. On a single bike 
many people do this subconsciously. On a tandem it must be communicated. 
This holds true for many other single bike behavior, like pausing while 
pedaling to drink, reposition, stand, etc. 

Cheers,

Patrick

On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 1:31:31 PM UTC-4, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>
> Rene, 
>
> Congratulations on the first ride! 
>
> Bill McReady of Santana tandems is a promoter of what he calls "the proper 
> method" for starting and stopping. I can't find a link on their website to 
> his now old original article, but did find a short Youtube video of a 
> couple demonstrating the method.   
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm4Hf4izxtw
>
> I find it really works to make things smooth -- that plus communication to 
> your stoker of bumps, etc. as much as possible. 
>
> You might want to take it out for a few short rides on your own w/o a 
> stoker just to get the feel for the long bike in turns, stopping, etc. 
>
> As far as your disk mount goes, I'm not sure I follow. On my setup the 
> brake caliper is attached to an mount/adaptor, which is attached to the 
> frame bosses. The mount/adaptor has a fair amount of side to side 
> adjustment possible so a parallel setup of the caliper is fairly easy. Does 
> your setup not have that adjustability? 
>
> As far as the tire pressure goes, what is the recommended max on the 
> Switchback Hills? We ride Hetres on our Bilenky -- usually at 50 +/- psi, 
> even loaded and pulling a trailer I do not go over 60 psi, and we're (at 
> least me) not a small team. On the HHH I'm running Maxxis Re-Fuse at 
> about 45 psi so far, although they're a bit wider than 
> the Switchback Hills. 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
>
>
> On Sunday, June 4, 2017 at 11:29:18 AM UTC-5, René wrote:
>>
>> After being away for two weeks for work and waiting for parts, the 
>> Hubbuhubbuh is finally finished!
>>
>> https://flic.kr/p/Vpyjod - keep scrolling. 
>>
>> I still want to add Fenders, and the front one will be Rinkoed, but I 
>> need more time for that.  In the meantime, it's ready to roll and start us 
>> on the tandem riding learning curve. 
>>
>> First maiden ride was with my son, and it quickly highlighted the fact 
>> that we do need to learn how to coordinate our action and do the team 
>> dance. Very short maiden ride in front of the house, and by the end things 
>> were much improved. I still was petrified to take my hands off the grips, 
>> no shifts were done, starting and stopping successful but not smooth yet. 
>>
>> It has made me realize that he and I need to practice plenty before I'm 
>> comfortable enough to try to go for a try with my wife. I don't think it's 
>> going to take long, but it's going to take some work for sure. Tandem 
>> riding seems to be an exhilarating experience, it just adds another 
>> dimension to the experience of riding a bike. 
>>
>> I'm very happy I followed my "gut" and ordered the Hubbuhubbuh when 
>> announced. If you're thinking about getting one on the next order, do so. 
>> It's a whole new experience. 
>>
>> A few notes:
>>
>> - The recommendation to use the Spar Urethane for the cork grips was 
>> excellent. I really like how they turned out after three coats. Beautiful, 
>> very smooth and great feeling when holding them. 
>>
>> - On my frame, it seems the disc brake tab is not perfectly parallel to 
>> the disc rotor. I swapped the Paul disc brake that like most mechanical 
>> disc brakes only has one piston on the outside which would run the rotor a 
>> lot, with a TRP Spyke mechanical disc brake which has pistons on both 
>> sides, and after adjusting it, almost all of the ribbing was removed, with 
>> 

[RBW] Re: What tires are people running on their Hubbuhubbuhs?

[Patrick Cronin]

Jim,

You scored with the matching bar tape and tires. Also digging the small 
touches like the headset spacer in orange and the Paul skewers. 

-Patrick

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 1:05:20 PM UTC-4, Jim S. wrote:
>
> I attached a couple of photos. Picked it up Friday night. Rode Friday and 
> Saturday. I'm delighted with this bike. The 43 mm tires are appropriate. 
> Don't need anything bigger - the stoker is a skinny 12-year old who barely 
> fits even with his seat post slammed. 
>
> Some reviews emphasize how "fun" this bike is. In some instances, when I 
> hear that a bike is "fun" I think "slow and upright." It can be damning 
> with faint praise, like when somebody wants to set you up with a girl with 
> "a good personality." 
>
> This tandem is fun, but not in a slow and clunky way, or 
> girl-with-a-good-personality way. I'm not claiming that we're especially 
> strong riders, but we were buzzing around town much faster than we do when 
> we ride separately. And then the fast riding feeds on itself. When I feel 
> the kid pedaling hard, I pedal harder, and vice versa.
>
> This bike is fast enough that I am already contemplating a shift to 
> albastache bars, as my hands were mostly out front in the "aero" position, 
> and I'm wanting some brake levers to grab on to when I'm out there.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 9:40:53 PM UTC-5, Ray Varella wrote:
>>
>> We will have to see pictures of that combo Jim S.
>> I saw that orange and it's wild. 
>>
>> I went with the Schwalbe Super Motos. They look like big fat motorcycle 
>> tires. I'm looking forward to trying them out. I don't know how they'll 
>> ride but they should wear really well. 
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Large orange HHH build, shake down ride

[Patrick Cronin]

Looks great! What fenders are those?

-Patrick

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 9:55:48 AM UTC-4, Julian Westerhout wrote:
>
> I finished building our large HHH last night. We took it on a 14 mile 
> shake down ride this morning in ridiculous 25-30 mph winds. Tried to stay 
> with sidewinds, HHH dealt with them well. 
>
> This is our third tandem (second in current fleet -- the other is a custom 
> S Bilenky tourer). The initial ride indicates the HHH will be lots of 
> fun. The orange is a lot brighter than we expected, but it's growing on us. 
>
> It's been quite the Rivendell May here -- my 65cm green Clem arrived last 
> week -- set it up with Chocomoose bars -- also lots of fun. 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: The Hubbuhubbuhs are here!

[Patrick Cronin]

Many thanks for posting these pics. I've been having sage envy and blue 
regret after seeing the first and even latest photo from Grant. I'm now 
really excited for this blue. Can't wait to put it up against the original 
Hunqapillar blue. Riv 'dealer', Gravel & Grind just took my deposit for 
parts and found a NOS xtr v-brakeset, which should look smart on the blue. 
Curious about the Paul Klamper, as I've never used.   

What did Riv say about the steerer length? It looks astronomic in height. 
Anyone else have thoughts about an ideal height for the Medium w/ 
bosco-bullmoose?

Cheers,

Patrick

On Thursday, May 4, 2017 at 5:48:03 PM UTC-4, René wrote:
>
> I drive up today to pick up my Medium Orange frame, Silver crankset, 
> special Bosco bars my 40 spoked custome Rich built wheels and a few extra 
> parts. As usual, Vince, Grant, Mark, Rich and everyone else were super 
> nice, and even though the frames were just delivered yesterday, the 
> accommodated my eagerness and anticipation and prepped the frame while I 
> was waiting. 
>
> I'm still waiting on the polished Motolites, which should ship out next 
> week at the latest and will enjoy building it slowly to savor every moment. 
> There will be numerous asks for my wife to give her feedback so she feels 
> she also owns it, such as blue vs. white vs. gray cables, blue vs. silver 
> pedals, grip types, etc. She needs to feel it's also hers so she starts 
> enjoying it. And I promise I'll be very gentle and obey her every whim when 
> she rides with me. 
>
> As usual, I'll post photos of the progress of the build and the different 
> options being considered. 
>
> In the meantime, enjoy the first view of the Hubbuhubbuhs hanging in the 
> showroom. One color is still not displayed. 
> https://flickr.com/photos/25160594@N05/sets/72157680299609103
>
> Enjoy!
>
> René 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: WTB: Tandem Child Stoker Kit

[Patrick Cronin]

Jack,

Below is a picture of a complete child stoker kit that fit my (then) 3-year 
old. The same kit fits my 6-year old, too. This one was purchased from 
Precision 
Tandems http://www.precisiontandems.com/catalogpartsweb.htm#childstoker, 
which at the time cost nearly $600 as they were the only full kit with an 
amazing custom shim. And even that kit, as evidenced by the funky 
upside-down drop bars, didn't have a correct size shim for the stem 
extender to attach child-narrow cowbell bars. Now there are available full 
kits sold by Tandems East 
http://www.tandemseast.com/parts/stoker_comfort.html that are a little 
cheaper, but still do the trick. Although it seems expensive, I recommend 
buying a new kit as the fitting of the bottom bracket to your stoker seat 
tube is absolutely critical. Additionally, the link you provided to the 
Co-Motion kit displays a partial kit. No seat, no shims, no pedals, no 
handlebars, etc.

If I had to pay the same price over again I'd do it because I take my two 
older boys on triple rides often (like even for school drop-offs) enough 
that they ask to go on rides all the time.

Cheers,

Patrick

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-T06XbdZ9zng/VVqQ7PsfjDI/r1o/0DoEnMWjsN4/s1600/2014-06-24%2B17.19.22.jpg



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-shKn7rnHwUQ/VVqMIFSmmtI/r1c/5LUMgpxKGLM/s1600/2014-06-24%2B17.01.04.jpg

On Monday, May 18, 2015 at 10:43:16 AM UTC-4, Jack K wrote:

 Hey RBW folk,

 I'm seeking a child stoker conversion kit, hopefully compete; i.e. with 
 BB/clamp assembly, cranks and both chainrings (1 for child crankarm and 1 
 for mounting inboard of existing ring on stoker left crankarm). Something 
 like: http://co-motion.com/index.php/product/co-motion-child-stoker-kit

 This will go on my steel Bilenky tandem with a 28.6mm OD seat-tube, though 
 obviously a shim can be used with units fitting larger diameter seat-tubes.

 Anyone have something they're no longer using and would like to move along 
 to a new home?

 Riv-ish content? 

- Long rides in the countryside with a 5 year old is pretty Rivvy, 
right?
- It's going on a fillet brazed steel Bilenky
- My preferred bars for kid stokers are reversed Nitto moustache bars 

 Thanks and safe riding!

 -Jack

 Raleigh, NC

 Cycle tracks will abound in Utopia.   -- H.G. Wells


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: FS: The Hunq. But I'm keeping the Atlantis!

[Patrick Cronin]

Ok, I've got to request pictures of this thing. I've got paul/schmidt hubs, 
lights, racks, and the works on my Hunq and I can't fathom what 6K would 
look like sans Royce Gold 
http://www.royceuk.co.uk/Racing-Gold-Carbon-Supreme/ components. Bore me 
to death, please!

Cheers,

Patrick

On Saturday, July 12, 2014 8:44:41 AM UTC-4, SS wrote:

 If there is zero interest in my used 58cm Hunq then I have to admit I'd be 
 pretty glad, deep down.  However.  I have a family, and have been laid off, 
 and have an Atlantis who won the coin toss fair and square, so I 
 halfheartedly offer my extra bike for sale.  I've pictures and can go on 
 for days about the components and all, but I won't bore anyone.  Feel free 
 to ask though. I'd like $6k, but, well, that's pretty optimistic, and we'll 
 hammer out vulgar discussions of that nature when appropriate.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW 
Owners Bunch group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.