Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[John Moore]

Thanks Lance. That does seem to be the problem, so many (too many?) choices in 
bars. 

I do ride road and mtn, though probably 80% road thus that desire for something 
with a little drop and having a variety of hand positions. Am narrowing down 
option and albatross is in there. 

John

> On Jun 15, 2022, at 1:09 PM, Lance Terry  wrote:
> 
> John,
> I'm running Wavie bars on my Atlantis and really like them. I'm also a 
> mountain biker and maybe I'm just used to the wider bars and the feel of 
> them. I'm running silver thumbies and it works great. Definitely room for a 
> handlebar bag. I'm using them with the Jim stem, 80mm. Works great for me but 
> there are a lot of options. The Albatross is a favorite too. Hard decision to 
> make when you can't try out all the options, at least with a limited bank 
> account. 
> 
>> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 7:25:42 PM UTC-6 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Tough question! Sure to get a lot of different opinions. I am on my first 
>> Riv after decades on drops. I really like my 650 wide Tosco bar on my Clem 
>> L. The 650 might be the only one available in the 31.8 clamp size, which is 
>> nice as it is plenty stiff & simply does not slip using a FacePlater stem. 
>> It does not have as much rise as the Bosco. I doubt you will want to flip 
>> them once you try them upright. There are (for me) three good hand 
>> positions. It’s great for a handlebar bag. And it costs less than the Nitto 
>> bars though the finish is great. It is a heavy thing being ChrMo but it 
>> feels indestructible.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Jun 12, 2022, at 8:54 PM, John Moore  wrote:
 
>>> 
>> 
>>> In a few weeks I'll join the Rivendell ranks taking possession of a new 
>>> Atlantis 59cm. This will be my first more relaxed bike after decades of 
>>> serious road biking - basically downshifting, partly due to health, partly 
>>> due to changes in what I want a bike to do. 
>>> 
>>> For this Atlantis, I plan to do relaxed around town rides and voyages on 
>>> gravel roads - eg northern New England, rails to trails, eg the cross NY 
>>> state trail system etc., self-supported with the camping gear and the like. 
>>> 
>>> I'm starting to put together my build list and all is coming along fine. 
>>> Brooks saddle, Silver 178 crank, shimano rear derailleur, older campy front 
>>> derailleur, etc.
>>> 
>>> Where I'm really struggling is picking out the bars. Will have thumbies, 
>>> may want to have handlebar bag as well (used one yrs ago when touring 
>>> through Europe) and found it super handy. Also, remember, I'm very 
>>> accustomed to drop bars.
>>> 
>>> So...
>>> 
>>> Looking at Albastashe, but doesn't look compatible with handlebar bag. 
>>> Don't want stem and bar combo. Albatross looks better for handlebar bag but 
>>> not as many hand positions. Not sure about Bosco or Losco, would likely 
>>> flip most of these to get some drop. The portola handlebar from Soma looks 
>>> interesting but unlikely to have enough sweepback for that long top tube of 
>>> Atlantis. 
>>> 
>>> Lastly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
>>> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
>>> seems to be the case with Pauls.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me 
>>> a hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
>>> 
>>> - John
>> 
>>> -- 
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Lance Terry]

John,
I'm running Wavie bars on my Atlantis and really like them. I'm also a 
mountain biker and maybe I'm just used to the wider bars and the feel of 
them. I'm running silver thumbies and it works great. Definitely room for a 
handlebar bag. I'm using them with the Jim stem, 80mm. Works great for me 
but there are a lot of options. The Albatross is a favorite too. Hard 
decision to make when you can't try out all the options, at least with a 
limited bank account. 

On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 7:25:42 PM UTC-6 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Tough question! Sure to get a lot of different opinions. I am on my first 
> Riv after decades on drops. I really like my 650 wide Tosco bar on my Clem 
> L. The 650 might be the only one available in the 31.8 clamp size, which is 
> nice as it is plenty stiff & simply does not slip using a FacePlater stem. 
> It does not have as much rise as the Bosco. I doubt you will want to flip 
> them once you try them upright. There are (for me) three good hand 
> positions. It’s great for a handlebar bag. And it costs less than the Nitto 
> bars though the finish is great. It is a heavy thing being ChrMo but it 
> feels indestructible.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 12, 2022, at 8:54 PM, John Moore  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> In a few weeks I'll join the Rivendell ranks taking possession of a new 
> Atlantis 59cm. This will be my first more relaxed bike after decades of 
> serious road biking - basically downshifting, partly due to health, partly 
> due to changes in what I want a bike to do. 
>
> For this Atlantis, I plan to do relaxed around town rides and voyages on 
> gravel roads - eg northern New England, rails to trails, eg the cross NY 
> state trail system etc., self-supported with the camping gear and the like. 
>
> I'm starting to put together my build list and all is coming along fine. 
> Brooks saddle, Silver 178 crank, shimano rear derailleur, older campy front 
> derailleur, etc.
>
> Where I'm really struggling is picking out the bars. Will have thumbies, 
> may want to have handlebar bag as well (used one yrs ago when touring 
> through Europe) and found it super handy. Also, remember, I'm very 
> accustomed to drop bars.
>
> So...
>
> Looking at Albastashe, but doesn't look compatible with handlebar bag. 
> Don't want stem and bar combo. Albatross looks better for handlebar bag but 
> not as many hand positions. Not sure about Bosco or Losco, would likely 
> flip most of these to get some drop. The portola handlebar from Soma looks 
> interesting but unlikely to have enough sweepback for that long top tube of 
> Atlantis. 
>
> Lastly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
> seems to be the case with Pauls.
>
> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give 
> me a hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
>
> - John
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Mackenzy Albright]

I really enjoy the Losco handlebars. I've found they've been able to be fit 
on any bike comfortably. Long and high (clem) long and low (romancuer) 
somewhere inbetween (my touring bike) 

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 8:27:01 AM UTC-6 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I second what Joe said: Billie bars are my favorite, particularly for the 
> type of riding you describe. The hand position next to the stem is quite 
> far forward on the Billie bar, so it puts my back in a fairly low position, 
> similar to riding in the drops. I use that position for fast cruising, or 
> riding into a headwind.
>
> Another thing you can do is just drop the quill stem in the middle of the 
> ride if you feel like you want a lower position. It takes less than 30 
> seconds, and a couple inches makes a dramatic difference. I regularly 
> change my stem height mid ride.
>
> I tried flipping around the Billie bars so they have negative rise, and 
> that didn't work for me, because I lost the advantages of the hands next to 
> stem position. It also looks less attractive than the positive rise, IMHO.
>
> Finally, you can always have another bike set up with drop bars ;)
>
> -Clark
> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 9:43:09 AM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I’ve had some Choco bars in the parts bin for a few years. The reason 
>> I’ve yet to mount them is because they sweep back from the flats and offer 
>> nothing in front of the stem. Coming from drops and riding in the hoods, I 
>> like to sometimes have a position out in front of the stem which is what 
>> the Albatross bars give me. Maybe when the Roaduno comes out those Choco 
>> bars will find a home... 
>>
>> Joe in Los Angeles 
>>
>> > On Jun 13, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > I can't help with a bar, but I've used Pauls, DC, Shimano, Mafac, and 
>> > Tektro cantis, and the Paul's do seem to have more power -- perhaps a 
>> > bit more rigid? -- and they are certainly easiest to set up, including 
>> > 15" wrench flats to adjust spring tension, which I find very, very 
>> > desirable. And the principal advantage, for me, is that their pivots 
>> > seemed to have less slop, which reduces judder and squeal caused by 
>> > the flex of very long head and steerer tubes and a headset mounted 
>> > housing stop. My frame has no crown hole, tho' one day I may get 
>> > around to drilling one to mount a stop there. But the judder and 
>> > squeal disappeared, or as much as makes no difference, when I replaced 
>> > Tektros with Pauls; same stops and pads. 
>> > 
>> > Whether all this justifies their price, I'll leave to you. 
>> > 
>> > On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 6:54 PM John Moore  
>> wrote: 
>> >> Lasstly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much 
>> better then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive 
>> which seems to be the case with Pauls. 
>> >> 
>> >> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to 
>> give me a hand. Appreciate any and all replies. 
>> >> 
>> >> - John 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvV0%3DNo3GOSfCz9U1LOqJ7DNXfve0Lua%2B%2BjVQ50oLd%2B5g%40mail.gmail.com.
>>  
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Hi John,

I second what Joe said: Billie bars are my favorite, particularly for the 
type of riding you describe. The hand position next to the stem is quite 
far forward on the Billie bar, so it puts my back in a fairly low position, 
similar to riding in the drops. I use that position for fast cruising, or 
riding into a headwind.

Another thing you can do is just drop the quill stem in the middle of the 
ride if you feel like you want a lower position. It takes less than 30 
seconds, and a couple inches makes a dramatic difference. I regularly 
change my stem height mid ride.

I tried flipping around the Billie bars so they have negative rise, and 
that didn't work for me, because I lost the advantages of the hands next to 
stem position. It also looks less attractive than the positive rise, IMHO.

Finally, you can always have another bike set up with drop bars ;)

-Clark
On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 9:43:09 AM UTC-7 jmlmu...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’ve had some Choco bars in the parts bin for a few years. The reason I’ve 
> yet to mount them is because they sweep back from the flats and offer 
> nothing in front of the stem. Coming from drops and riding in the hoods, I 
> like to sometimes have a position out in front of the stem which is what 
> the Albatross bars give me. Maybe when the Roaduno comes out those Choco 
> bars will find a home...
>
> Joe in Los Angeles
>
> > On Jun 13, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> > 
> > I can't help with a bar, but I've used Pauls, DC, Shimano, Mafac, and
> > Tektro cantis, and the Paul's do seem to have more power -- perhaps a
> > bit more rigid? -- and they are certainly easiest to set up, including
> > 15" wrench flats to adjust spring tension, which I find very, very
> > desirable. And the principal advantage, for me, is that their pivots
> > seemed to have less slop, which reduces judder and squeal caused by
> > the flex of very long head and steerer tubes and a headset mounted
> > housing stop. My frame has no crown hole, tho' one day I may get
> > around to drilling one to mount a stop there. But the judder and
> > squeal disappeared, or as much as makes no difference, when I replaced
> > Tektros with Pauls; same stops and pads.
> > 
> > Whether all this justifies their price, I'll leave to you.
> > 
> > On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 6:54 PM John Moore  
> wrote:
> >> Lasstly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much 
> better then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive 
> which seems to be the case with Pauls.
> >> 
> >> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to 
> give me a hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
> >> 
> >> - John
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvV0%3DNo3GOSfCz9U1LOqJ7DNXfve0Lua%2B%2BjVQ50oLd%2B5g%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Joe Mullins]

I’ve had some Choco bars in the parts bin for a few years. The reason I’ve yet 
to mount them is because they sweep back from the flats and offer nothing in 
front of the stem. Coming from drops and riding in the hoods, I like to 
sometimes have a position out in front of the stem which is what the Albatross 
bars give me. Maybe when the Roaduno comes out those Choco bars will find a 
home...

Joe in Los Angeles

> On Jun 13, 2022, at 8:55 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> I can't help with a bar, but I've used Pauls, DC, Shimano, Mafac, and
> Tektro cantis, and the Paul's do seem to have more power -- perhaps a
> bit more rigid? -- and they are certainly easiest to set up, including
> 15" wrench flats to adjust spring tension, which I find very, very
> desirable. And the principal advantage, for me, is that their pivots
> seemed to have less slop, which reduces judder and squeal caused by
> the flex of very long head and steerer tubes and a headset mounted
> housing stop. My frame has no crown hole, tho' one day I may get
> around to drilling one to mount a stop there. But the judder and
> squeal disappeared, or as much as makes no difference, when I replaced
> Tektros with Pauls; same stops and pads.
> 
> Whether all this justifies their price, I'll leave to you.
> 
> On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 6:54 PM John Moore  wrote:
>> Lasstly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
>> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
>> seems to be the case with Pauls.
>> 
>> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me 
>> a hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
>> 
>> - John
> 
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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Patrick Moore]

I can't help with a bar, but I've used Pauls, DC, Shimano, Mafac, and
Tektro cantis, and the Paul's do seem to have more power -- perhaps a
bit more rigid? -- and they are certainly easiest to set up, including
15" wrench flats to adjust spring tension, which I find very, very
desirable. And the principal advantage, for me, is that their pivots
seemed to have less slop, which reduces judder and squeal caused by
the flex of very long head and steerer tubes and a headset mounted
housing stop. My frame has no crown hole, tho' one day I may get
around to drilling one to mount a stop there. But the judder and
squeal disappeared, or as much as makes no difference, when I replaced
Tektros with Pauls; same stops and pads.

Whether all this justifies their price, I'll leave to you.

On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 6:54 PM John Moore  wrote:
> Lasstly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
> seems to be the case with Pauls.
>
> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me a 
> hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
>
> - John

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Stephen]

Hey John,

I'm surprised no one's talked about choco bars yet. Personally I have yet 
to try them, but I think they look great. Riv describes them as being good 
for roadish bikes as an alternative to drop bars. Bikesnobnyc has them on 
his homer.

Paul brakes are incredible. I haven't used the dia compe canti's, but the 
paul's ease of setup and adjustibility allow you to dial in such a perfect 
brake feel in my experience. Painfully expensive but they'll last forever!

stephen

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 8:33:32 AM UTC-4 larson@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: 3CF862D8-6758-4A8F-92A3-23A113CC1071.jpeg]
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 7:32:03 AM UTC-5 larson@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have always been more of a drop bar guy, but after 500 miles on Billie 
>> bars I am starting to change my thinking. I do not like a too upright 
>> position - the front curves, which I use a lot, are about saddle level. The 
>> ends are angled slightly down which I like for descending or on the trail. 
>> The front curves feel similar to riding on the hoods of a drop bar. I keep 
>> thinking that  as my rides get longer I will wish for drop bars, but I have 
>> not found that to be the case. I feel like by flexing my elbows I can get a 
>> low enough position for a headwind, though obviously not as low as drops. 
>> Yesterday I rode 40+ miles in complete comfort with no hand, neck or 
>> shoulder (I’m rehabbing a rotator cuff injury)pain, and feel that 50-60 
>> miles would be no problem. These days I do not ride longer than that very 
>> often. The Joe Appaloosa with Billie bars is making me rethink my ideas on 
>> comfort.
>>
>> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:52:54 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> I will definitely second being less comfortable when I am too upright. I 
>>> still haven't found a bar with back sweep and rise (albatross, boscos, 
>>> etc.) that I feel comfortable on. My bikes are all pretty much drops or 
>>> flat bars (wavies, bullmoose, Jones). I can only descend hills at any sort 
>>> of speed on drop bars. My favorite drops are Randonneur Bars (which Riv 
>>> does not sell) - the bars sweep up at the outside so that the ramps are 
>>> above the stem. I have been riding drops for 52 years since that first 
>>> Varsity Sport, the Super Sport a year later introduced me to Randonneur 
>>> bars (and Chrome-Moly frames and alloy rims and Brooks saddles). The top of 
>>> my bars are above the Saddle these days, but the drops are still below the 
>>> saddle.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> Delray Beach FL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:03:47 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>
 Hi John, 

 I'm surely not a "typical" Riv rider in that I grew up and am still 
 most comfortable/relaxed with a forward leaning position. The more upright 
 I go the more unstable I feel on the bike, exactly the opposite of what's 
 being touted. Don't believe anything/everything you read, *even this*, 
 everything you need to know you already know within yourself. I wouldn't 
 make a very good teacher as that'd be about all I'd say to the 
 "students". that and "why ask me that which you already know and are 
 ?" 
 Why ? so that in asking and answering we can laugh/revel in the 
 hilarity of playing *question and answer *!  Self Revelation  ...
  

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[larson....@gmail.com]

I have always been more of a drop bar guy, but after 500 miles on Billie 
bars I am starting to change my thinking. I do not like a too upright 
position - the front curves, which I use a lot, are about saddle level. The 
ends are angled slightly down which I like for descending or on the trail. 
The front curves feel similar to riding on the hoods of a drop bar. I keep 
thinking that  as my rides get longer I will wish for drop bars, but I have 
not found that to be the case. I feel like by flexing my elbows I can get a 
low enough position for a headwind, though obviously not as low as drops. 
Yesterday I rode 40+ miles in complete comfort with no hand, neck or 
shoulder (I’m rehabbing a rotator cuff injury)pain, and feel that 50-60 
miles would be no problem. These days I do not ride longer than that very 
often. The Joe Appaloosa with Billie bars is making me rethink my ideas on 
comfort.

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:52:54 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> I will definitely second being less comfortable when I am too upright. I 
> still haven't found a bar with back sweep and rise (albatross, boscos, 
> etc.) that I feel comfortable on. My bikes are all pretty much drops or 
> flat bars (wavies, bullmoose, Jones). I can only descend hills at any sort 
> of speed on drop bars. My favorite drops are Randonneur Bars (which Riv 
> does not sell) - the bars sweep up at the outside so that the ramps are 
> above the stem. I have been riding drops for 52 years since that first 
> Varsity Sport, the Super Sport a year later introduced me to Randonneur 
> bars (and Chrome-Moly frames and alloy rims and Brooks saddles). The top of 
> my bars are above the Saddle these days, but the drops are still below the 
> saddle.
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>
> On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:03:47 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> Hi John, 
>>
>> I'm surely not a "typical" Riv rider in that I grew up and am still most 
>> comfortable/relaxed with a forward leaning position. The more upright I go 
>> the more unstable I feel on the bike, exactly the opposite of what's being 
>> touted. Don't believe anything/everything you read, *even this*, 
>> everything you need to know you already know within yourself. I wouldn't 
>> make a very good teacher as that'd be about all I'd say to the 
>> "students". that and "why ask me that which you already know and are ?" 
>> Why ? so that in asking and answering we can laugh/revel in the 
>> hilarity of playing *question and answer *!  Self Revelation  ...
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[John Moore]

Thank you one and ll who have provided some feedback on bars and brakes. Really 
helps a lot with decision process. 

And yes, after some years racing, fast group rides, big long solos in a day I 
do see moving to a Riv as a bit of downshifting but that is not a bad thing. In 
fact I’m really looking forward to those longer more leisurely adventures on 
one of these beautiful frames - just want to be sure that it is a comfortable 
ride as I know from past experiences, the wrong bars can just get uncomfortable 
after a period of time. While I don’t mind sitting more upright for a good part 
of ride, there are times when I just want to get down into the bike, eg drops. 


Happy trails,
John

> On Jun 12, 2022, at 9:25 PM, Richard Rose  wrote:
> 
> Tough question! Sure to get a lot of different opinions. I am on my first 
> Riv after decades on drops. I really like my 650 wide Tosco bar on my Clem L. 
> The 650 might be the only one available in the 31.8 clamp size, which is nice 
> as it is plenty stiff & simply does not slip using a FacePlater stem. It does 
> not have as much rise as the Bosco. I doubt you will want to flip them once 
> you try them upright. There are (for me) three good hand positions. It’s 
> great for a handlebar bag. And it costs less than the Nitto bars though the 
> finish is great. It is a heavy thing being ChrMo but it feels indestructible.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Jun 12, 2022, at 8:54 PM, John Moore  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> In a few weeks I'll join the Rivendell ranks taking possession of a new 
>> Atlantis 59cm. This will be my first more relaxed bike after decades of 
>> serious road biking - basically downshifting, partly due to health, partly 
>> due to changes in what I want a bike to do. 
>> 
>> For this Atlantis, I plan to do relaxed around town rides and voyages on 
>> gravel roads - eg northern New England, rails to trails, eg the cross NY 
>> state trail system etc., self-supported with the camping gear and the like. 
>> 
>> I'm starting to put together my build list and all is coming along fine. 
>> Brooks saddle, Silver 178 crank, shimano rear derailleur, older campy front 
>> derailleur, etc.
>> 
>> Where I'm really struggling is picking out the bars. Will have thumbies, may 
>> want to have handlebar bag as well (used one yrs ago when touring through 
>> Europe) and found it super handy. Also, remember, I'm very accustomed to 
>> drop bars.
>> 
>> So...
>> 
>> Looking at Albastashe, but doesn't look compatible with handlebar bag. Don't 
>> want stem and bar combo. Albatross looks better for handlebar bag but not as 
>> many hand positions. Not sure about Bosco or Losco, would likely flip most 
>> of these to get some drop. The portola handlebar from Soma looks interesting 
>> but unlikely to have enough sweepback for that long top tube of Atlantis. 
>> 
>> Lastly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
>> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
>> seems to be the case with Pauls.
>> 
>> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me 
>> a hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
>> 
>> - John
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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[lconley]

I will definitely second being less comfortable when I am too upright. I 
still haven't found a bar with back sweep and rise (albatross, boscos, 
etc.) that I feel comfortable on. My bikes are all pretty much drops or 
flat bars (wavies, bullmoose, Jones). I can only descend hills at any sort 
of speed on drop bars. My favorite drops are Randonneur Bars (which Riv 
does not sell) - the bars sweep up at the outside so that the ramps are 
above the stem. I have been riding drops for 52 years since that first 
Varsity Sport, the Super Sport a year later introduced me to Randonneur 
bars (and Chrome-Moly frames and alloy rims and Brooks saddles). The top of 
my bars are above the Saddle these days, but the drops are still below the 
saddle.

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Monday, June 13, 2022 at 6:03:47 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Hi John, 
>
> I'm surely not a "typical" Riv rider in that I grew up and am still most 
> comfortable/relaxed with a forward leaning position. The more upright I go 
> the more unstable I feel on the bike, exactly the opposite of what's being 
> touted. Don't believe anything/everything you read, *even this*, 
> everything you need to know you already know within yourself. I wouldn't 
> make a very good teacher as that'd be about all I'd say to the 
> "students". that and "why ask me that which you already know and are ?" 
> Why ? so that in asking and answering we can laugh/revel in the 
> hilarity of playing *question and answer *!  Self Revelation  ...
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Garth]

Hi John, 

I'm surely not a "typical" Riv rider in that I grew up and am still most 
comfortable/relaxed with a forward leaning position. The more upright I go 
the more unstable I feel on the bike, exactly the opposite of what's being 
touted. Don't believe anything/everything you read, *even this*, everything 
you need to know you already know within yourself. I wouldn't make a very 
good teacher as that'd be about all I'd say to the "students". that and 
"why ask me that which you already know and are ?" Why ? so that in 
asking and answering we can laugh/revel in the hilarity of playing *question 
and answer *!  Self Revelation  ...

As the story goes  
On my Franklin custom road bike, after using Dirt Drop bars on it 
originally, I tried some 56cm steel Albatross bars which worked for me only 
because being a custom, it had a comparitively very long top tube. and 
I used Tektro bar end brake levers. It became obvious to me no matter where 
I put mtb levers the lever mount was always in the way of my hands. The 
Alba has *all that room* without any brake levers .. so enter the bar 
end levers !  I use regular bar tape up and just over the curve, where I 
have the thumbshifters. For bar usability like that, the Alba are to me 
much more usable than the Billie, which I do have a pair but doubt I'll 
ever use them as none of the so called positive attributes in print apply 
to me. It's quite narrow at the curve and it's width at the ends only comes 
from a slightly wider outsweep angle. It must be noted that my Alba is the 
no longer made 56cm. whose curve radius is a little larger in hand than the 
55 versions. I bought some 55's thinking they'd be exactly the same, with 
the narrowness coming from the center portion, but no, it wasn't. The 
Albastache is much more like the 56 Alba in that it has that nicely shaped 
radius for your hands. I have a pair I was hesitant to use as I didn't like 
how road brake levers felt in the positions touted in all the how-to's. 
What are they thinking, it's awful ! That's where you just can't live by 
what you read as depicting reality. Creativity needs and has no 
"instruction" ! Bar end brake levers be a screaming for that bar !  For 
shifters I'll either get some 23.8 thumbshifter mounts and place them just 
inside the curve, like my Alba, or possibly mount my Suntours on the stem 
vertically, or simply use DT shifters. The Albastache doesn't have much 
back reach so positioning it is more like doing a drop bar. 

Paul brakes I've never really been tempted by as the design simply doesn't 
work for me in any way. Give me what works, what's practicaIlike 
"traditional" cantilevers, full rubber, road sized, post-style centered 
pads that totally clear the stays. In todays retail, that'd be the 
DiaComple DC988. Why Riv doesn't offer it, you got me. It's everything in a 
cantilever they claim doesn't exist anymore. It never went away ;-) It even 
comes in anodised colors if you prefer from Porkchop BMX. I love that 
store as they also have many small DiaCompe parts as well as applicalbe 
road parts. They have stickers too, fun stickers, all kinds of stickers 
. and stickers are just plain fun. 

BTW, With a Nitto Lamp Holder 2, you could mount any bar bag .The bar sits 
70mm forward of the clamp and it's 200mm wide.  
https://benscycle.vtexassets.com/arquivos/ids/5687997/Nitto-Lamp-Holder-2-70---260mm-bens-large-nitto-lamp-holder-2-70-4724.jpg

The only difference between serious and relaxed riding is that one takes 
itself seriuosly  the other does not. The bike of itself does not 
matter, it's only a "prop" to act out the play..  

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Joe Mullins]

John,

Congrats on the Atlantis! Personally, I think that moving from serious road 
biking to the Atlantis is upshifting rather than downshifting. You can ride 
that Atlantis anywhere your legs can take you, carry whatever you want within 
limit, and change it up as your tastes change. Going from an Atlantis to what I 
imagine a serious road bike to be would be a downshift in my book…so welcome!

I love Albatross bars on my Hillborne-- my “racing” bike which can go anywhere 
I want to go. I have a bar end shifter for the rear and a thumby on the stem 
for the front. This gives me plenty of grip space. I rode the demo Gus with 
Billie bars and thumbies and while it felt good, I prefer the feel of Albatross 
or anything wider more (I’m 5’10 with slightly longish arms and an 85PBH).

I have 58cm Bosco bars with a right thumby on my Rosco and while others may 
disagree, I tend to consider these bars having only 2 positions…on the grips 
and on the flats. If I didn’t have the thumby I still don’t have as much room 
in front of the grips as I do with Albatross bars. I’m not sure what other 
positions folks find on these bars.

If I was you I’d try the ones you are leaning towards most and if you can 
afford to, try something different down the road. Never hurts to ask here on 
the group if someone has a set of bars collecting dust. If I had an Atlantis 
I’d try Albatross or Tosco’s or maybe even Losco’s. I would imagine that the 
current Atlantis was probably designed around Albatross bars and would love to 
hear other’s thoughts on this…

I have Paul Mini-Moto’s on my Hillborne and they are almost too good. The smoke 
my Shimano V-Brakes IMO. They just feel more solid. I would imagine the canti’s 
feel just as good.

Joe in Los Angeles

> On Jun 12, 2022, at 8:32 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
> 
> Billie Bars for the win. They're a smidge wider than Albatross and shallower, 
> which will work for a more pleasant grip in the curves if you flip them. Lots 
> of room for shifters, levers and grips too. Accept no substitutes! 
> 
> Joe Bernard 
> 
> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:54:25 PM UTC-7 John Moore wrote:
> In a few weeks I'll join the Rivendell ranks taking possession of a new 
> Atlantis 59cm. This will be my first more relaxed bike after decades of 
> serious road biking - basically downshifting, partly due to health, partly 
> due to changes in what I want a bike to do. 
> For this Atlantis, I plan to do relaxed around town rides and voyages on 
> gravel roads - eg northern New England, rails to trails, eg the cross NY 
> state trail system etc., self-supported with the camping gear and the like. 
> 
> I'm starting to put together my build list and all is coming along fine. 
> Brooks saddle, Silver 178 crank, shimano rear derailleur, older campy front 
> derailleur, etc.
> 
> Where I'm really struggling is picking out the bars. Will have thumbies, may 
> want to have handlebar bag as well (used one yrs ago when touring through 
> Europe) and found it super handy. Also, remember, I'm very accustomed to drop 
> bars.
> 
> So...
> 
> Looking at Albastashe, but doesn't look compatible with handlebar bag. Don't 
> want stem and bar combo. Albatross looks better for handlebar bag but not as 
> many hand positions. Not sure about Bosco or Losco, would likely flip most of 
> these to get some drop. The portola handlebar from Soma looks interesting but 
> unlikely to have enough sweepback for that long top tube of Atlantis. 
> 
> Lastly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
> seems to be the case with Pauls.
> 
> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me a 
> hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
> 
> - John
> 
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>  
> .
> 

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Re: [RBW] Bars and more bars...

[Richard Rose]

Tough question! Sure to get a lot of different opinions. I am on my first Riv 
after decades on drops. I really like my 650 wide Tosco bar on my Clem L. The 
650 might be the only one available in the 31.8 clamp size, which is nice as it 
is plenty stiff & simply does not slip using a FacePlater stem. It does not 
have as much rise as the Bosco. I doubt you will want to flip them once you try 
them upright. There are (for me) three good hand positions. It’s great for a 
handlebar bag. And it costs less than the Nitto bars though the finish is 
great. It is a heavy thing being ChrMo but it feels indestructible.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 12, 2022, at 8:54 PM, John Moore  wrote:
> 
> 
> In a few weeks I'll join the Rivendell ranks taking possession of a new 
> Atlantis 59cm. This will be my first more relaxed bike after decades of 
> serious road biking - basically downshifting, partly due to health, partly 
> due to changes in what I want a bike to do. 
> 
> For this Atlantis, I plan to do relaxed around town rides and voyages on 
> gravel roads - eg northern New England, rails to trails, eg the cross NY 
> state trail system etc., self-supported with the camping gear and the like. 
> 
> I'm starting to put together my build list and all is coming along fine. 
> Brooks saddle, Silver 178 crank, shimano rear derailleur, older campy front 
> derailleur, etc.
> 
> Where I'm really struggling is picking out the bars. Will have thumbies, may 
> want to have handlebar bag as well (used one yrs ago when touring through 
> Europe) and found it super handy. Also, remember, I'm very accustomed to drop 
> bars.
> 
> So...
> 
> Looking at Albastashe, but doesn't look compatible with handlebar bag. Don't 
> want stem and bar combo. Albatross looks better for handlebar bag but not as 
> many hand positions. Not sure about Bosco or Losco, would likely flip most of 
> these to get some drop. The portola handlebar from Soma looks interesting but 
> unlikely to have enough sweepback for that long top tube of Atlantis. 
> 
> Lastly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better 
> then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which 
> seems to be the case with Pauls.
> 
> Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me a 
> hand. Appreciate any and all replies.
> 
> - John
> -- 
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[RBW] Bars and more bars...

[John Moore]

In a few weeks I'll join the Rivendell ranks taking possession of a new
Atlantis 59cm. This will be my first more relaxed bike after decades of
serious road biking - basically downshifting, partly due to health, partly
due to changes in what I want a bike to do.

For this Atlantis, I plan to do relaxed around town rides and voyages on
gravel roads - eg northern New England, rails to trails, eg the cross NY
state trail system etc., self-supported with the camping gear and the like.

I'm starting to put together my build list and all is coming along fine.
Brooks saddle, Silver 178 crank, shimano rear derailleur, older campy front
derailleur, etc.

Where I'm really struggling is picking out the bars. Will have thumbies,
may want to have handlebar bag as well (used one yrs ago when touring
through Europe) and found it super handy. Also, remember, I'm very
accustomed to drop bars.

So...

Looking at Albastashe, but doesn't look compatible with handlebar bag.
Don't want stem and bar combo. Albatross looks better for handlebar bag but
not as many hand positions. Not sure about Bosco or Losco, would likely
flip most of these to get some drop. The portola handlebar from Soma looks
interesting but unlikely to have enough sweepback for that long top tube of
Atlantis.

Lastly, brakes. I'm going canti. Are touring Pauls really that much better
then Dia Compe to justify the price. I like bling, but not excessive which
seems to be the case with Pauls.

Anyway, now calling upon the collective intelligence of this grp to give me
a hand. Appreciate any and all replies.

- John

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