Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

My own recollection is now somewhat fuzzy regarding all the different Clem 
batches but I can at least confirm Mustard Clem H's were available going 
back to 2016 as this was the first (only?) batch where the 65cm H was 
offered and I bought a 65cm complete on pre-order.  I recall later 
receiving an email from Dave sometime before they arrived asking whether 
I'd prefer green or mustard as they had added the second color choice.  
After previously being tempted by the 62cm mustard Appaloosa's I opted for 
the mustard Clem.

On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 8:28:03 PM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:

> Hi Eric,
>
> I *believe* they were both 2019 (both were bought that year, but it is 
> possible that the H was an older model... it was the mustard color, not 
> sure which year that was). 
>
> But I'm also basing my reasoning on bikeinsights geo charts, which show 
> differences for the same model year.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 20:01 Eric Daume  wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but I 
>> always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 
>>
>> Eric 
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  wrote:
>>
> Hi!
>>>
>>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
>>> away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
>>> front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length means 
>>> bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is 
>>> not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>>> ,
>>>
>>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
>>> sold the H and bought an L.
>>>
>>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a bit 
>>> stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're looking 
>>> for.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
 idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while pulling 
 my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over 
 but 
 sometimes it could be a benefit.

 On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only standing 
> still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. Of course 
> any 
> frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold mine & have 
> invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it though as 
> the 
> step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love about 
> this 
> bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so nice.
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge of 
> flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it (some 
> folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab that 
> H, 
> it's a good frame! 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a 
>> bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high 
>> for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 
>>
>> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use 
>> as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. 
>> I 
>> found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping 
>> for 
>> some opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H 
>> just 
>> has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the 
>> same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go 
>> than 
>> a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price 
>> bump on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a huge deal for me. 
>> Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
>>
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> 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[John Johnson]

Hi Eric,

I *believe* they were both 2019 (both were bought that year, but it is
possible that the H was an older model... it was the mustard color, not
sure which year that was).

But I'm also basing my reasoning on bikeinsights geo charts, which show
differences for the same model year.

Cheers,

John

On Tue, Aug 9, 2022, 20:01 Eric Daume  wrote:

> John,
>
> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but I
> always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years.
>
> Eric
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right away
>> there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer front
>> center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length means bars
>> fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is not
>> insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful:
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>> ,
>>
>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I
>> sold the H and bought an L.
>>
>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a bit
>> stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're looking
>> for.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the
>>> idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while pulling
>>> my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over but
>>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only standing
 still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. Of course any
 frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold mine & have
 invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it though as the
 step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love about this
 bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so nice.
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge of
 flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it (some
 folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab that H,
 it's a good frame!



 On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a
> bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high
> for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice!
>
> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use
> as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. I
> found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping for
> some opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H just
> has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the
> same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go than
> a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price
> bump on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a huge deal for me.
> Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
>
 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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 .

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> To 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Ryan Frahm]

Good luck with the sale Paul! Can’t wait to see the Rosco builds to come. 
Another cool looking bike!

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 1:19:24 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Correctumundo, the shortest Clems in both styles have the bendy seatstays 
> on the smaller sizes, the H went through at least (I think only) two 
> incarnations. The big difference now when looking at used H and L bikes is 
> the newer Ls are markedly stretched in comparison to any H you will find. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 1:15:13 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I’m not at all sure, but I think the H had at least one run with the new 
>> longer geo in 2019. It has more cream accents than the older ones is the 
>> only other thing I have noticed. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:48:41 AM UTC-7 Paul Choi wrote:
>>
>>> This might be premature but I have a FFHS 52 Clem H in Grilver that I 
>>> will be selling once my Roscoe comes in. I bought the bike last year from 
>>> the original owner. It has some damage to the drive side chainstay and 
>>> outside of the bottom bracket. The touch up job was very low quality. I 
>>> didn't care about the cosmetic issues. I think the damage was due to the 
>>> chain falling off and then some pedaling. I can provide photos if someone 
>>> is interested and will post an official FS later if there is no interest 
>>> now. I think this bike was purchased from RBW back in 2019. 
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:27:31 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 ... but i I guess I still don't know that short Hs were ever produced 
 again, after the Ls got longer.  This chart may have just included the 
 then-defunct H for reference or aspirational purposes.

 On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:21:18 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:

> Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
> DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
>> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold 
>> the 
>> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just 
>> do 
>> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
>> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
>> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn 
>> that 
>> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public 
>> way 
>> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard 
>>> color and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but 
>>> don’t know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>>>
>>> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and 
>>> head tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 
>>> 2 
>>> degrees on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very 
>>> similar though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the 
>>> same 
>>> paths and trails to decide!
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 John,

 Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, 
 but I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model 
 years. 

 Eric 


 On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  
 wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed 
> right away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, 
> longer front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube 
> length means bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be 
> adapted, 
> etc. This is not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
> ,
>
> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L 
> so I sold the H and bought an L.
>
> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being 
> a bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what 
> you're 
> looking for.
>
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Joe Bernard]

Correctumundo, the shortest Clems in both styles have the bendy seatstays 
on the smaller sizes, the H went through at least (I think only) two 
incarnations. The big difference now when looking at used H and L bikes is 
the newer Ls are markedly stretched in comparison to any H you will find. 

Joe Bernard 

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 1:15:13 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> I’m not at all sure, but I think the H had at least one run with the new 
> longer geo in 2019. It has more cream accents than the older ones is the 
> only other thing I have noticed. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:48:41 AM UTC-7 Paul Choi wrote:
>
>> This might be premature but I have a FFHS 52 Clem H in Grilver that I 
>> will be selling once my Roscoe comes in. I bought the bike last year from 
>> the original owner. It has some damage to the drive side chainstay and 
>> outside of the bottom bracket. The touch up job was very low quality. I 
>> didn't care about the cosmetic issues. I think the damage was due to the 
>> chain falling off and then some pedaling. I can provide photos if someone 
>> is interested and will post an official FS later if there is no interest 
>> now. I think this bike was purchased from RBW back in 2019. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:27:31 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> ... but i I guess I still don't know that short Hs were ever produced 
>>> again, after the Ls got longer.  This chart may have just included the 
>>> then-defunct H for reference or aspirational purposes.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:21:18 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
 DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  


 https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry

 On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:

> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold 
> the 
> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn 
> that 
> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public 
> way 
> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color 
>> and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t 
>> know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>>
>> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head 
>> tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 
>> degrees 
>> on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar 
>> though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths 
>> and trails to decide!
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, 
>>> but I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model 
>>> years. 
>>>
>>> Eric 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi!

 I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed 
 right away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, 
 longer front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube 
 length means bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be 
 adapted, 
 etc. This is not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
 https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
 ,

 In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so 
 I sold the H and bought an L.

 I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a 
 bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're 
 looking for.

 cheers,

 John

 On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like 
> the idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up 
> while 
> pulling my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting 
> a leg 
> over but sometimes it could be a benefit.
>
> On Thursday, 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Ryan Frahm]

I’m not at all sure, but I think the H had at least one run with the new 
longer geo in 2019. It has more cream accents than the older ones is the 
only other thing I have noticed. 

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:48:41 AM UTC-7 Paul Choi wrote:

> This might be premature but I have a FFHS 52 Clem H in Grilver that I will 
> be selling once my Roscoe comes in. I bought the bike last year from the 
> original owner. It has some damage to the drive side chainstay and outside 
> of the bottom bracket. The touch up job was very low quality. I didn't care 
> about the cosmetic issues. I think the damage was due to the chain falling 
> off and then some pedaling. I can provide photos if someone is interested 
> and will post an official FS later if there is no interest now. I think 
> this bike was purchased from RBW back in 2019. 
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:27:31 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> ... but i I guess I still don't know that short Hs were ever produced 
>> again, after the Ls got longer.  This chart may have just included the 
>> then-defunct H for reference or aspirational purposes.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:21:18 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
>>> DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  
>>>
>>>
>>> https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
 insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold 
 the 
 answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
 Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
 wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
 proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn 
 that 
 they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public way 
 that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.

 On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color 
> and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t 
> know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>
> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head 
> tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 
> degrees 
> on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar 
> though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths 
> and trails to decide!
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, 
>> but I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model 
>> years. 
>>
>> Eric 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
>>> away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
>>> front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length 
>>> means 
>>> bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This 
>>> is 
>>> not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>>> ,
>>>
>>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so 
>>> I sold the H and bought an L.
>>>
>>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a 
>>> bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're 
>>> looking for.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like 
 the idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while 
 pulling my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a 
 leg 
 over but sometimes it could be a benefit.

 On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only 
> standing still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex 
> disappears. Of 
> course any frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I 
> sold mine 
> & have invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it 
> though 
> as the step through is my favorite feature of 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Paul Choi]

This might be premature but I have a FFHS 52 Clem H in Grilver that I will 
be selling once my Roscoe comes in. I bought the bike last year from the 
original owner. It has some damage to the drive side chainstay and outside 
of the bottom bracket. The touch up job was very low quality. I didn't care 
about the cosmetic issues. I think the damage was due to the chain falling 
off and then some pedaling. I can provide photos if someone is interested 
and will post an official FS later if there is no interest now. I think 
this bike was purchased from RBW back in 2019. 

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:27:31 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> ... but i I guess I still don't know that short Hs were ever produced 
> again, after the Ls got longer.  This chart may have just included the 
> then-defunct H for reference or aspirational purposes.
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:21:18 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
>> DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  
>>
>>
>> https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
>>> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold the 
>>> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
>>> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
>>> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
>>> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn that 
>>> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public way 
>>> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color 
 and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t 
 know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 

 Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head 
 tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 
 degrees 
 on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar 
 though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths 
 and trails to decide!

 On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> John,
>
> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but 
> I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 
>
> Eric 
>
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
>> away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
>> front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length 
>> means 
>> bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is 
>> not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>> ,
>>
>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
>> sold the H and bought an L.
>>
>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a 
>> bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're 
>> looking for.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
>>> idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while 
>>> pulling 
>>> my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over 
>>> but 
>>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only 
 standing still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. 
 Of 
 course any frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold 
 mine 
 & have invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it 
 though 
 as the step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love 
 about this bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so 
 nice.
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge 
 of flex in the frame that shows 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[iamkeith]

... but i I guess I still don't know that short Hs were ever produced 
again, after the Ls got longer.  This chart may have just included the 
then-defunct H for reference or aspirational purposes.

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 9:21:18 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:

> Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
> DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
>> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold the 
>> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
>> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
>> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
>> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn that 
>> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public way 
>> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color 
>>> and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t 
>>> know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>>>
>>> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head 
>>> tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 degrees 
>>> on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar 
>>> though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths 
>>> and trails to decide!
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 John,

 Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but 
 I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 

 Eric 


 On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  
 wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
> away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
> front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length 
> means 
> bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is 
> not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
> ,
>
> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
> sold the H and bought an L.
>
> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a 
> bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're 
> looking for.
>
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
>> idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while 
>> pulling 
>> my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over 
>> but 
>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only 
>>> standing still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. 
>>> Of 
>>> course any frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold 
>>> mine 
>>> & have invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it 
>>> though 
>>> as the step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love 
>>> about this bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so 
>>> nice.
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge 
>>> of flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it 
>>> (some folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). 
>>> Grab 
>>> that H, it's a good frame! 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden 
 a bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time 
 high 
 for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 

 I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to 
 use as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more 
 stuff. I found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Slin]

Oh cool, thanks for digging up that link to the geo chart. 

I like the note at the end, "Don't get hung up on the numbers though. Go 
ride your bike!"

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:21:18 AM UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

> Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that 
> DOES simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  
>
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>
> On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
>> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold the 
>> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
>> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
>> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
>> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn that 
>> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public way 
>> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color 
>>> and would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t 
>>> know the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>>>
>>> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head 
>>> tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 degrees 
>>> on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar 
>>> though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths 
>>> and trails to decide!
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
 John,

 Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but 
 I always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 

 Eric 


 On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  
 wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
> away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
> front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length 
> means 
> bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is 
> not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
> ,
>
> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
> sold the H and bought an L.
>
> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a 
> bit stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're 
> looking for.
>
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
>> idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while 
>> pulling 
>> my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over 
>> but 
>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only 
>>> standing still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. 
>>> Of 
>>> course any frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold 
>>> mine 
>>> & have invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it 
>>> though 
>>> as the step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love 
>>> about this bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so 
>>> nice.
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge 
>>> of flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it 
>>> (some folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). 
>>> Grab 
>>> that H, it's a good frame! 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden 
 a bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time 
 high 
 for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 

 I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to 
 use as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more 
 stuff. I found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I 
 was 
 hoping for 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[iamkeith]

Well, I stand corrected.  Here's a geomety chart from the archive that DOES 
simultaneously show the shorter H and the longer L.  

https://web.archive.org/web/20200413014654/https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry

On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 8:20:47 AM UTC-6 iamkeith wrote:

> That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
> insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold the 
> answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
> Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
> wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
> proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn that 
> they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public way 
> that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color and 
>> would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t know 
>> the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>>
>> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head 
>> tube angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 degrees 
>> on the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar 
>> though. It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths 
>> and trails to decide!
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>>
>>> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but I 
>>> always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 
>>>
>>> Eric 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  wrote:
>>>
 Hi!

 I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
 away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
 front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length 
 means 
 bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is 
 not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
 https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
 ,

 In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
 sold the H and bought an L.

 I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a bit 
 stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're looking 
 for.

 cheers,

 John

 On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
> idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while 
> pulling 
> my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over 
> but 
> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only 
>> standing still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. 
>> Of 
>> course any frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold 
>> mine 
>> & have invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it 
>> though 
>> as the step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love 
>> about this bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so 
>> nice.
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge 
>> of flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it 
>> (some folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab 
>> that H, it's a good frame! 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a 
>>> bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time 
>>> high 
>>> for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 
>>>
>>> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to 
>>> use as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more 
>>> stuff. I found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was 
>>> hoping for some opinions about the differences here! From what I can 
>>> tell, 
>>> the H just has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to 
>>> be 
>>> about the same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as 
>>> parts go than a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get 
>>> a 
>>> decent price bump on 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[iamkeith]

That's interesting.  I'd  put my money on Eric being right and bike 
insights being wrong.  The wayback machine internet archive should hold the 
answers.  The Hs didn't last all that long before they decided to just do 
Ls.  They may even have dropped the upper bar an H version BECAUSE they 
wanted to lengthen them, and maybe something got whacky with the 
proportions or angles.  I remember that we were all surprised to learn that 
they'd gotten longer, so it wasn't talked about in the typical, public way 
that ,say, the decision to drop the clementine name was.

On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 1:06:21 PM UTC-6 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color and 
> would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t know 
> the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 
>
> Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head tube 
> angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 degrees on 
> the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar though. 
> It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths and trails 
> to decide!
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but I 
>> always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 
>>
>> Eric 
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right 
>>> away there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer 
>>> front center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length means 
>>> bars fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is 
>>> not insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>>> ,
>>>
>>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
>>> sold the H and bought an L.
>>>
>>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a bit 
>>> stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're looking 
>>> for.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
 idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while pulling 
 my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over 
 but 
 sometimes it could be a benefit.

 On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only standing 
> still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. Of course 
> any 
> frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold mine & have 
> invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it though as 
> the 
> step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love about 
> this 
> bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so nice.
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge of 
> flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it (some 
> folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab that 
> H, 
> it's a good frame! 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a 
>> bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high 
>> for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 
>>
>> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use 
>> as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. 
>> I 
>> found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping 
>> for 
>> some opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H 
>> just 
>> has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the 
>> same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go 
>> than 
>> a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price 
>> bump on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a huge deal for me. 
>> Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
>
> To view this discussion on the 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Ryan Frahm]

Thank you for the messages Dustin and John! I love that mustard color and 
would have liked to find one in it. I did pick up the one but don’t know 
the exact year. It is supposed to be here Friday! 

Eric, when I looked on bike insights it showed the fork rake and head tube 
angle being the main difference on the two. Steeper by about 2 degrees on 
the H I think with less rake. Trail numbers are still very similar though. 
It would be fun to spend a weekend riding both on the same paths and trails 
to decide!

On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 11:01:22 AM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> John,
>
> Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but I 
> always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years. 
>
> Eric 
>
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson  wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right away 
>> there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer front 
>> center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length means bars 
>> fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is not 
>> insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: 
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16
>> ,
>>
>> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I 
>> sold the H and bought an L.
>>
>> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a bit 
>> stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're looking 
>> for.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the 
>>> idea of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while pulling 
>>> my daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over but 
>>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only standing 
 still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. Of course 
 any 
 frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold mine & have 
 invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it though as the 
 step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love about this 
 bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so nice.
 [image: image0.jpeg]

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge of 
 flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it (some 
 folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab that H, 
 it's a good frame! 



 On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a 
> bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high 
> for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice! 
>
> I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use 
> as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. 
> I 
> found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping for 
> some opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H 
> just 
> has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the 
> same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go 
> than 
> a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price 
> bump on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a huge deal for me. 
> Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
>
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.


 To view this discussion on the web visit 
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 .

 -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/374a2883-03ab-480b-a3e4-3d1b50a01d51n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 

Re: [RBW] Clem H curious

[Eric Daume]

John,

Were your bikes the same gen? The Clem got longer in later models, but I
always thought the L and H had the same geo for the same model years.

Eric

On Thursday, August 4, 2022, John Johnson 
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I had a Clem H and my wife has the same size Clem L. I noticed right away
> there were a few differences; the L has a longer top tube, longer front
> center, and longer wheelbase. The difference in top tube length means bars
> fit differently, stem lengths will need to be adapted, etc. This is not
> insignificant. bikeinsights is as always helpful: https://bikeinsights.
> com/compare?geometries=5e234be7c6f2c50017f1e4cc,5e234e0e5c58cd001776de16,
>
> In the end, I was jealous of the extra reach on my wife's Clem L so I sold
> the H and bought an L.
>
> I would say they do ride a bit differently (agreed on the H being a bit
> stiffer). Both are great bikes, and it just depends on what you're looking
> for.
>
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 4:12:44 PM UTC+2 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the thoughts Richard, nice looking bike! I do like the idea
>> of the step thru on these. Especially for loading it up while pulling my
>> daughter in the trailer. I don’t have any trouble getting a leg over but
>> sometimes it could be a benefit.
>>
>> On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 5:59:11 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have an “L” and I do notice the flex when loaded - but only standing
>>> still or just “pushing off”. Once moving the flex disappears. Of course any
>>> frame bags you might have are useless on the “L”. So I sold mine & have
>>> invested in traditional racks & bags. It’s all been worth it though as the
>>> step through is my favorite feature of the many features I love about this
>>> bike. Not saying don’t get the “H”, but the “L” is just so nice.
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 3, 2022, at 1:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> It's basically the same, just a little stiffer. The L has a smidge of
>>> flex in the frame that shows up if you load a bunch of weight on it (some
>>> folks I've mentioned this to say they don't notice it, YRMV). Grab that H,
>>> it's a good frame!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 9:02:34 AM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a
 bike like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high
 for me! I do however find it to be almost too nice!

 I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use
 as my grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. I
 found a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping for
 some opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H just
 has a sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the
 same. Do they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go than
 a complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price
 bump on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a huge deal for me.
 Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

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[RBW] Clem H curious

[Ryan Frahm]

I just finished my Susie build (first Riv) and I have never ridden a bike 
like it. It brings comfort and riding enjoyment to an all time high for me! 
I do however find it to be almost too nice! 

I was interested in waiting for a Clem L to come back in stock to use as my 
grocery getter/winter bike to keep fenders on and haul more stuff. I found 
a Clem H for sale that I’m interested in though so I was hoping for some 
opinions about the differences here! From what I can tell, the H just has a 
sleeper head tube angle and everything else seems to be about the same. Do 
they ride similar? The H is a better deal as far as parts go than a 
complete. I’m also almost certain the complete will get a decent price bump 
on the next run. The step thru is cool but not a huge deal for me. 
Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

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