[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Here is a well thought out response from the author of the Perfect Health Diet. Paleofantasy and the State of Ancestral Sciencehttp://perfecthealthdiet.com/2013/03/paleofantasy-and-the-state-of-ancestral-science/ http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2013/03/paleofantasy-and-the-state-of-ancestral-science/ With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 5:55:21 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Precisely why we Paleo's eat grass fed and wild game and organically grown leafy greens or from our own gardens when possible.many locals in my area raise livestock this way. We just purchased 90 pounds for $4.00 lb. of every cut imaginable but not much ground. Last I checked, Australian aboriginals and Inuit's in Alaska a generation or two past didn't evolve in grasslands per say. Additionally there are other cultures in South America who have lived off the rain forest vegetation, water creatures and land mammals. I'm not one to throw out the concept behind eating low carb/grain free/minimal to no processed food for health simply because much of our food supply is tainted. The main point I think Grant is making is that modern industrialized people are not healthy and our disease rates prove it. Further, outward appearances don't always tell the whole story. If you don't believe that look at how many supposedly healthy, skinny people have heart attacks. My own Grandfather lived to 100 but always had a pot belly. He ate seafood that he often caught and vegetables and was moderate in the consumption of deserts and alcohol and did not smoke. He kept busy with work until 88 walked and worked outside for exercise. He wasn't a Paleo eater but he ate a natural low carb diet. My father on the other hand did the opposite for most of his life and became a diabetic at about 55 and only lived to 76 On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:36:19 AM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote: Frankly, except when I am stuck sitting next to a wide body on the subway, I tend not to be all that concerned about what others eat. That said, the Paleo diet advocates insistence early humans did not eat grain is rot. Humans evolved in grass lands. As telhe linked article points out, there is good archaelogical evidence of grain processing going about as far back into human history. Yes, modern society modifies grains and refines the heck out of them. But the dead animals paleos eat have also been genetically modified, are pumped with anti-biotics, absorb pollutants from the air and water and eat modified and processed grain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Not really Patrick, but I can see how it may appear ! ahahahah The basic premise is : Am I a product of conditions' or are conditions are product of I ? For each to define for themselves On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:17:13 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: This is getting very weird. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Again this is all anecdotal evidence, as was pointed out earlier. My grandfather drank and smoked every day of his life. He used to have two Martinis for breakfast, calling them his eye openers. As an Italian he ate alot of carbs along with alot of meat and cheese. He lived until he was 87 but was always active and hardly ever sick. Would I say he had the ideal diet and regimen all should follow since he lived so long and was rarely sick or inactive? No, of course not. In my line of work I know alot of Vegans and Vegetarians who tell me how great they feel and how long their family members have lived by not eating any meat, cheese, fish, etc. But again its just all anecdotal. People put food just below religion in terms of how strongly they hold their convictions it seems. It feels like there are true believers in both camps that will espouse their merits no matter what. Just remember, I dont think at least any of us are doctors so before you start some fad diet please see a real actual Dr. to make sure you dont get sick. I can still remember the Juice Diet fads and how sick some people got, these extreme diets are not for everyone. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: Not really Patrick, but I can see how it may appear ! ahahahah The basic premise is : Am I a product of conditions' or are conditions are product of I ? For each to define for themselves On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:17:13 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: This is getting very weird. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
What science isn't based on anecdotal evidence? I did x, observed y, measured z... The Perfect Health Diet is based on research on several hundred scientific studies. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:06:37 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Again this is all anecdotal evidence, as was pointed out earlier. My grandfather drank and smoked every day of his life. He used to have two Martinis for breakfast, calling them his eye openers. As an Italian he ate alot of carbs along with alot of meat and cheese. He lived until he was 87 but was always active and hardly ever sick. Would I say he had the ideal diet and regimen all should follow since he lived so long and was rarely sick or inactive? No, of course not. In my line of work I know alot of Vegans and Vegetarians who tell me how great they feel and how long their family members have lived by not eating any meat, cheese, fish, etc. But again its just all anecdotal. People put food just below religion in terms of how strongly they hold their convictions it seems. It feels like there are true believers in both camps that will espouse their merits no matter what. Just remember, I dont think at least any of us are doctors so before you start some fad diet please see a real actual Dr. to make sure you dont get sick. I can still remember the Juice Diet fads and how sick some people got, these extreme diets are not for everyone. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: Not really Patrick, but I can see how it may appear ! ahahahah The basic premise is : Am I a product of conditions' or are conditions are product of I ? For each to define for themselves On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:17:13 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: This is getting very weird. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
My natural diet is a mix of quality meat, fruit, veggies, nuts, and eggs, which is a simple version of what some call paleo. Do these basic ingredients seem like a fad or an extreme diet? Does a diet consisting of these basic ingredients even seem worthy of a trademarked name like The Paleo Diet? When I eat these things, I have lots of energy and I feel good and my weight stays in control. When I deviate from this, and eat breads and sweets, I quickly start to feel bad, look puffy, and gain weight. I don't need a doctor's note to tell me that eating natural food and avoiding processed food is a good idea. The notion that eating these basic, natural foods is extreme, and that somehow eating a bowl of manufactured cereal with a side of pastry every morning is natural is backwards. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Even Grant, in his book makes a disclaimer that he is not a Dr. and you should ask yours before changing drastically changing your diet. Maybe extreme was too harsh of a word. I just ate Froot Loops with Almond Milk and I feel great! On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: My natural diet is a mix of quality meat, fruit, veggies, nuts, and eggs, which is a simple version of what some call paleo. Do these basic ingredients seem like a fad or an extreme diet? Does a diet consisting of these basic ingredients even seem worthy of a trademarked name like The Paleo Diet? When I eat these things, I have lots of energy and I feel good and my weight stays in control. When I deviate from this, and eat breads and sweets, I quickly start to feel bad, look puffy, and gain weight. I don't need a doctor's note to tell me that eating natural food and avoiding processed food is a good idea. The notion that eating these basic, natural foods is extreme, and that somehow eating a bowl of manufactured cereal with a side of pastry every morning is natural is backwards. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
At the very least, it seems obvious that there are different types of people. Some eat a bread/pasta-based diet and stay skinny and live a long healthy life. I'm not one of those. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Froot Loops? Now there's a diet I can live with! –Eric N Sent from my iPhone 5 On Mar 14, 2013, at 7:08 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: Even Grant, in his book makes a disclaimer that he is not a Dr. and you should ask yours before changing drastically changing your diet. Maybe extreme was too harsh of a word. I just ate Froot Loops with Almond Milk and I feel great! On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: My natural diet is a mix of quality meat, fruit, veggies, nuts, and eggs, which is a simple version of what some call paleo. Do these basic ingredients seem like a fad or an extreme diet? Does a diet consisting of these basic ingredients even seem worthy of a trademarked name like The Paleo Diet? When I eat these things, I have lots of energy and I feel good and my weight stays in control. When I deviate from this, and eat breads and sweets, I quickly start to feel bad, look puffy, and gain weight. I don't need a doctor's note to tell me that eating natural food and avoiding processed food is a good idea. The notion that eating these basic, natural foods is extreme, and that somehow eating a bowl of manufactured cereal with a side of pastry every morning is natural is backwards. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Unless and until you repeat it yourself, it's all anecdote. You are reading the study, which is anecdote. A very specific type of anecdote, but anecdote nonetheless. I have many foibles, but confusing science with religion is not one of them. Science is one tool for helping us understanding God's natural law, and thus serves faith. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:57:42 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Actual science, its based on lab tests and studies and years of research, not just stories. Maybe you are confusing science with religion, where you can just site a big book of maybe real, maybe pretend stories to fit your world view. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Deacon Patrick lamon...@mac.comjavascript: wrote: What science isn't based on anecdotal evidence? I did x, observed y, measured z... The Perfect Health Diet is based on research on several hundred scientific studies. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 7:06:37 AM UTC-6, Peter M wrote: Again this is all anecdotal evidence, as was pointed out earlier. My grandfather drank and smoked every day of his life. He used to have two Martinis for breakfast, calling them his eye openers. As an Italian he ate alot of carbs along with alot of meat and cheese. He lived until he was 87 but was always active and hardly ever sick. Would I say he had the ideal diet and regimen all should follow since he lived so long and was rarely sick or inactive? No, of course not. In my line of work I know alot of Vegans and Vegetarians who tell me how great they feel and how long their family members have lived by not eating any meat, cheese, fish, etc. But again its just all anecdotal. People put food just below religion in terms of how strongly they hold their convictions it seems. It feels like there are true believers in both camps that will espouse their merits no matter what. Just remember, I dont think at least any of us are doctors so before you start some fad diet please see a real actual Dr. to make sure you dont get sick. I can still remember the Juice Diet fads and how sick some people got, these extreme diets are not for everyone. On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Garth gart...@gmail.com wrote: Not really Patrick, but I can see how it may appear ! ahahahah The basic premise is : Am I a product of conditions' or are conditions are product of I ? For each to define for themselves On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:17:13 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: This is getting very weird. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@**googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.**com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-**UShttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_outhttps://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
I prefer my spirits neat! (Except when mixed.) And I applaud your good humor! Patrick Moore, whose role model for weight and longevity is GK Chesterton: Chesterton was a large man, standing 6 feet 4 inches (1.93 m) and weighing around 21 stone (130 kg; 290 lb). ... During World War I a lady in London asked why he was not out at the Front; he replied, If you go round to the side, you will see that I am.On another occasion he remarked to his friend George Bernard Shaw: To look at you, anyone would think a famine had struck England. Shaw retorted, To look at you, anyone would think you have caused it. P. G. Wodehouse once described a very loud crash as a sound like Chesterton falling onto a sheet of tin. Chesterton wrote around 80 books, several hundred poems, some 200 short stories, 4000 essays, and several plays. He was a literary and social critic, historian, playwright, novelist, Catholic theologian and apologist, debater, and mystery writer. He was a columnist for the Daily News, the Illustrated London News, and his own paper, G. K.'s Weekly; he also wrote articles for the Encyclopædia Britannica, including the entry on Charles Dickens and part of the entry on Humour in the 14th edition (1929). [He was contemptuous of socialism and communism and truly hated capitalism, even in the juvenile form it took in his life.] He died at 62 but I'd rather die young having lived much than die old having fretted my life away. Patrick Moore, who has hardly the wit nor the girth of Chesterton and who is dragging this thread even further into the OT wilds (and who will now cease to comment on the subject). On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 5:41 AM, Garth garth...@gmail.com wrote: Not really Patrick, but I can see how it may appear ! ahahahah The basic premise is : Am I a product of conditions' or are conditions are product of I ? For each to define for themselves On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 5:17:13 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: This is getting very weird. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- __ BUSINESS BUILDING COME-ON!! $300 off a $600 resume + letter or Linked In profile package with referral that leads to full price sale! Refer two full-pay clients and you get the package for free! I am not cheap, but I am very good. So they say. Patrick Moore, Ph.D, MBA, ACRW, Albuquerque, NM, USA http://resumespecialties.com/index.html * patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com __ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. attachment: chesterton1.jpg
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Seems like a good diet to me. I am having issues cutting the processed white carbs; they are just so pervasive in society. It's a shame. I am bound and determined to do it this year though. On Thursday, March 14, 2013 9:00:57 AM UTC-5, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: My natural diet is a mix of quality meat, fruit, veggies, nuts, and eggs, which is a simple version of what some call paleo. Do these basic ingredients seem like a fad or an extreme diet? Does a diet consisting of these basic ingredients even seem worthy of a trademarked name like The Paleo Diet? When I eat these things, I have lots of energy and I feel good and my weight stays in control. When I deviate from this, and eat breads and sweets, I quickly start to feel bad, look puffy, and gain weight. I don't need a doctor's note to tell me that eating natural food and avoiding processed food is a good idea. The notion that eating these basic, natural foods is extreme, and that somehow eating a bowl of manufactured cereal with a side of pastry every morning is natural is backwards. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
At most medical schools, only an hour or so the four-year-long curriculum is devoted to diet and nutrition. So your primary doc may or may not know much about the subject. It must be tough to try to do scientific research on the health effects of diet. I haven't read any of the literature. I can imagine designing experiments with short-term surrogate outcomes like weight loss, changes in blood lipid profiles, and so on. But what are the truly relevant outcomes related to diet and health? Longevity? Quality-adjusted life years? Overall long-term happiness? It would be impossible to run a randomized controlled trial (e.g., paleo vs. conventional USA diet) with those outcomes. And I would think that observational studies would have problems related to potential confounders, etc. This may be an area where anecdotal evidence has value, and self-experimentation is a reasonable approach. - David G (MD) in SF On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:08 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote: Even Grant, in his book makes a disclaimer that he is not a Dr. and you should ask yours before changing drastically changing your diet. Maybe extreme was too harsh of a word. I just ate Froot Loops with Almond Milk and I feel great! On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:00 AM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: My natural diet is a mix of quality meat, fruit, veggies, nuts, and eggs, which is a simple version of what some call paleo. Do these basic ingredients seem like a fad or an extreme diet? Does a diet consisting of these basic ingredients even seem worthy of a trademarked name like The Paleo Diet? When I eat these things, I have lots of energy and I feel good and my weight stays in control. When I deviate from this, and eat breads and sweets, I quickly start to feel bad, look puffy, and gain weight. I don't need a doctor's note to tell me that eating natural food and avoiding processed food is a good idea. The notion that eating these basic, natural foods is extreme, and that somehow eating a bowl of manufactured cereal with a side of pastry every morning is natural is backwards. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 06:36 -0700, Deacon Patrick wrote: What science isn't based on anecdotal evidence? I did x, observed y, measured z... Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence I see little support for your assertion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
OK. I overstated. Most science done today is anecdotal. It does not meet the standard of double-blind, peer reviewed data. So I treat it as anecdotal. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:29:45 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 06:36 -0700, Deacon Patrick wrote: What science isn't based on anecdotal evidence? I did x, observed y, measured z... Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence I see little support for your assertion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 13:45 -0700, Deacon Patrick wrote: OK. I overstated. Most science done today is anecdotal. It does not meet the standard of double-blind, peer reviewed data. So I treat it as anecdotal. Most is such a big word... and the burden of proof is on you. With abandon, Make that With RECKLESS abandon... 8=) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
That's still not quite correct, Patrick. Science by definition is not anecdotal: it is based on testable hypotheses and repeatable results resulting in data which can be analyzed and independently confirmed or disproved. Double blind studies are appropriate and necessary in some aspects of science but not in others- indeed, in most scientific experiments the double blind model is not necessary or sometimes not possible, such as the search for gravitational lensing to confirm part of Einstein's theory of general relativity or chemical analysis of proteins. The double blind model, on the other hand, is very useful for comparing the efficacy of a medication to placebo by reducing the effects of bias and expectation on outcomes. Gallileo did not need to use the double blind model to measure the acceleration of objects in Earth's gravitational field. Once one gets to repeatable observation and measurement, one has left the realm of anecdote. Anecdotes may be very accurate but it is the scientific method that ultimately provides the confirmation. Cheers! Tim On Mar 14, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote: OK. I overstated. Most science done today is anecdotal. It does not meet the standard of double-blind, peer reviewed data. So I treat it as anecdotal. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:29:45 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 06:36 -0700, Deacon Patrick wrote: What science isn't based on anecdotal evidence? I did x, observed y, measured z... Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence I see little support for your assertion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Chesterton LIVED a rich and FULL life YES !! What's not to love about that ? .so much for longevity Life is to be lived NOW now now now ! ahahahaahahah with lots of laughs and good spirits :) On Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:17:33 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: I prefer my spirits neat! (Except when mixed.) And I applaud your good humor! Patrick Moore, whose role model for weight and longevity is GK Chesterton: Chesterton was a large man, standing 6 feet 4 inches (1.93 m) and weighing around 21 stone (130 kg; 290 lb). ... During World War I a lady in London asked why he was not out at the Front; he replied, If you go round to the side, you will see that I am.On another occasion he remarked to his friend George Bernard Shaw: To look at you, anyone would think a famine had struck England. Shaw retorted, To look at you, anyone would think you have caused it. P. G. Wodehouse once described a very loud crash as a sound like Chesterton falling onto a sheet of tin. Chesterton wrote around 80 books, several hundred poems, some 200 short stories, 4000 essays, and several plays. He was a literary and social critic, historian, playwright, novelist, Catholic theologian and apologist, debater, and mystery writer. He was a columnist for the Daily News, the Illustrated London News, and his own paper, G. K.'s Weekly; he also wrote articles for the Encyclopædia Britannica, including the entry on Charles Dickens and part of the entry on Humour in the 14th edition (1929). [He was contemptuous of socialism and communism and truly hated capitalism, even in the juvenile form it took in his life.] He died at 62 but I'd rather die young having lived much than die old having fretted my life away. Patrick Moore, who has hardly the wit nor the girth of Chesterton and who is dragging this thread even further into the OT wilds (and who will now cease to comment on the subject). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
OK. I'll bow to that. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 3:25:44 PM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote: That's still not quite correct, Patrick. Science by definition is not anecdotal: it is based on testable hypotheses and repeatable results resulting in data which can be analyzed and independently confirmed or disproved. Double blind studies are appropriate and necessary in some aspects of science but not in others- indeed, in most scientific experiments the double blind model is not necessary or sometimes not possible, such as the search for gravitational lensing to confirm part of Einstein's theory of general relativity or chemical analysis of proteins. The double blind model, on the other hand, is very useful for comparing the efficacy of a medication to placebo by reducing the effects of bias and expectation on outcomes. Gallileo did not need to use the double blind model to measure the acceleration of objects in Earth's gravitational field. Once one gets to repeatable observation and measurement, one has left the realm of anecdote. Anecdotes may be very accurate but it is the scientific method that ultimately provides the confirmation. Cheers! Tim On Mar 14, 2013, at 3:45 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote: OK. I overstated. Most science done today is anecdotal. It does not meet the standard of double-blind, peer reviewed data. So I treat it as anecdotal. With abandon, Patrick On Thursday, March 14, 2013 2:29:45 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Thu, 2013-03-14 at 06:36 -0700, Deacon Patrick wrote: What science isn't based on anecdotal evidence? I did x, observed y, measured z... Compare http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdotal_evidence with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_evidence I see little support for your assertion. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Well this is a really interesting topic, and for what it’s worth and due respect towards Peter M’s comment to end this topic and Jim who makes decisions on whether a topic continues, I think its fine to have off topic discussions (as long as they stay civil) though I think this talk of diet is very relevant to cycling what you put in fuels you. This is a group of Rivendell owners but first and foremost we are a group of cyclists who appreciate sensible logic applied to the design of comfortable pedal powered transportation it just goes to reason that this also applies to other aspects revolving around our core fascination. Next, I am impressed by the vast knowledge of all the posters on this subject and am humbled as I in no way have such breath of knowledge like grant on the evolution of Homo Sapiens (quite an interesting subject though) that said I’d like to throw my two cents in. IMHO as cyclists we tend to be more acute to what we ingest, I for instance as I’ve aged have developed a sense of what feels good to eat and what doesn’t; as Peter M. states when I eat sugar and breads I feel a general un-wellness, oh darn all this thinking of diet has made me hungry gonna go make some eggs with beef sausage kale and other veggies… Okay full and feeling good. Okay where was I …right when I eat a small (emphasis here) portion of meat, sweet potatoes and greens I feel great! Jim Thill made a point “At the very least, it seems obvious that there are different types of people. Some eat a bread/pasta-based diet and stay skinny and live a long healthy life. I'm not one of those” continuing with this thinking some people can live over a hundred years like these Georgians (I could be wrong about the exact geographic location certainly I remember one of the regions of the old Soviet Union) they smoke and drink Vodka religiously bath in ice cold water and have a really long life span or how about the Okinawan’s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet These people also work like crazy well into their 90’s and beyond, the concept of retirement I don’t think exists for themJ I have a chronic Kidney disease called IGA Nephropathy (diagnosed at 38) and am supposed to limit my animal protein to no more than 7oz per day. I submit this as an example of why diet is individual based and leads me to another point about human evolution we live longer now because of better hygiene and modern western medicines. The progress in medicine has allowed us to beat many of the odds our ancestors just couldn’t, yes many of the diseases we suffer from as a modern society such as diabetes and obesity( many ramifications statistically) are caused by a diet rich in processed foods and sugar and could be eliminated by a proper diet. Yet as we have lived longer we are seeing diseases populate as our bodies can no longer make the necessary repairs. (This link is interesting) http://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html Again modern medicine steps in to manage these prolonging our lives. Our Bronze Age ancestor’s average life expectancy was 26 and the world life expectancy at the early 20th century was 31. I believe it was 48 in the United States at the turn of the century. The point is what our ancestor’s ate was what was available and they died comparatively young and there is no way to determine had our most recent ancestor’s eaten a better diet they would have lived longer, perhaps just felt a heck of a lot better while they lived. I never meant to go on but this topic has captivated my thoughts and caused me to look closely at my own diet ( I love a good Tuscan bread toasted with butter yummy in moderation ) Perhaps riding my bicycle allows me to indulge. Food for thought (pun intended). Hugh Sunland, CA (High of 91 degrees) Global warming? Sorry that’s for another topicJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
This is officially the Rivendell Engine thread. Totally relevant and appropriate! I will add another source to the debate, although others (maybe Grant) brought this up before, but since he's local (Seattle), I feel obligated to mention Stephan Guyenet. He's also an official scientist doing research on what makes folks obese, and has his own food reward theory: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/ Brian Seattle, WA On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 7:45 PM, hsmitham hughsmit...@gmail.com wrote: Well this is a really interesting topic, and for what it’s worth and due respect towards Peter M’s comment to end this topic and Jim who makes decisions on whether a topic continues, I think its fine to have off topic discussions (as long as they stay civil) though I think this talk of diet is very relevant to cycling what you put in fuels you. This is a group of Rivendell owners but first and foremost we are a group of cyclists who appreciate sensible logic applied to the design of comfortable pedal powered transportation it just goes to reason that this also applies to other aspects revolving around our core fascination. Next, I am impressed by the vast knowledge of all the posters on this subject and am humbled as I in no way have such breath of knowledge like grant on the evolution of Homo Sapiens (quite an interesting subject though) that said I’d like to throw my two cents in. IMHO as cyclists we tend to be more acute to what we ingest, I for instance as I’ve aged have developed a sense of what feels good to eat and what doesn’t; as Peter M. states when I eat sugar and breads I feel a general un-wellness, oh darn all this thinking of diet has made me hungry gonna go make some eggs with beef sausage kale and other veggies… Okay full and feeling good. Okay where was I …right when I eat a small (emphasis here) portion of meat, sweet potatoes and greens I feel great! Jim Thill made a point “At the very least, it seems obvious that there are different types of people. Some eat a bread/pasta-based diet and stay skinny and live a long healthy life. I'm not one of those” continuing with this thinking some people can live over a hundred years like these Georgians (I could be wrong about the exact geographic location certainly I remember one of the regions of the old Soviet Union) they smoke and drink Vodka religiously bath in ice cold water and have a really long life span or how about the Okinawan’s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okinawa_diet These people also work like crazy well into their 90’s and beyond, the concept of retirement I don’t think exists for themJ I have a chronic Kidney disease called IGA Nephropathy (diagnosed at 38) and am supposed to limit my animal protein to no more than 7oz per day. I submit this as an example of why diet is individual based and leads me to another point about human evolution we live longer now because of better hygiene and modern western medicines. The progress in medicine has allowed us to beat many of the odds our ancestors just couldn’t, yes many of the diseases we suffer from as a modern society such as diabetes and obesity( many ramifications statistically) are caused by a diet rich in processed foods and sugar and could be eliminated by a proper diet. Yet as we have lived longer we are seeing diseases populate as our bodies can no longer make the necessary repairs. (This link is interesting) http://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html Again modern medicine steps in to manage these prolonging our lives. Our Bronze Age ancestor’s average life expectancy was 26 and the world life expectancy at the early 20th century was 31. I believe it was 48 in the United States at the turn of the century. The point is what our ancestor’s ate was what was available and they died comparatively young and there is no way to determine had our most recent ancestor’s eaten a better diet they would have lived longer, perhaps just felt a heck of a lot better while they lived. I never meant to go on but this topic has captivated my thoughts and caused me to look closely at my own diet ( I love a good Tuscan bread toasted with butter yummy in moderation ) Perhaps riding my bicycle allows me to indulge. Food for thought (pun intended). ** ** Hugh Sunland, CA (High of 91 degrees) Global warming? Sorry that’s for another topicJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Frankly, except when I am stuck sitting next to a wide body on the subway, I tend not to be all that concerned about what others eat. That said, the Paleo diet advocates insistence early humans did not eat grain is rot. Humans evolved in grass lands. As the linked article points out, there is good archaelogical evidence of grain processing going about as far back into human history. Yes, modern society modifies grains and refines the heck out of them. But the dead animals paleos eat have also been genetically modified, are pumped with anti-biotics, absorb pollutants from the air and water and eat modified and processed grain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Sorry, folks. i did not realize the history or firestorm my comment would proved. If what you eat works, go that route till it doesn't. I haven't read the book and likely won't. But from the reviews I've read she does not address the core reasons I choose to eat this way, which are very scientifically backed. Her argument appears to be a straw man argument. Hence the reason I said poor logic and reason. The insulen/glucose cycle is heavily documented and getting out of that cycle has helped my brain and body function far, far better. To address a few points: -- Paleo is a non specific term that refers to any number of diets and reasons and thus has no particular meaning. -- We eat 100% grass fed meat and animal products. The difference from grain fed is primarily is the fat, and the flavor is rich and dynamic. By eliminating grains from any part of the food cycle our family eats, we have experienced dramatic improvements. -- Yes, humans have eaten glucose for a very long time. We need glucose (either produced from fat by our liver or ingested directly). I do much better eating safe carbs such as white rice, potatoes, and sweet potatoes (about 1-2 cups a day). Anyone interested in the science will find a plethora of information at www.PerfectHealthDiet.com and their book. My apologies for inadvertently ruffling feathers. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Feathers are meant to be ruffled. Controversy is good for the soul. The other Patrick in ABQ, NM happily stuffing himself with Beer and Bacon (at least, no bacon until Orthodox lent is over -- deep fried cheese sticks; but I'm not giving up beer). On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: My apologies for inadvertently ruffling feathers. -- __ BUSINESS BUILDING COME-ON!! $300 off a $600 resume + letter or Linked In profile package with referral that leads to full price sale! Refer two full-pay clients and you get the package for free! I am not cheap, but I am very good. So they say. Patrick Moore, Ph.D, MBA, ACRW, Albuquerque, NM, USA http://resumespecialties.com/index.html * patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com __ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Hey All, If I remember correctly from my under grad days, when I studied, among other stuff, physical anthropology, there is more than a little evidence in the human family tree that our predecessors were eating stuff that needed to be crushed rather than sliced, so grasses, grains, etc. At least that's what we were taught. Regards, Chris Redding, Ca. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
By the way, the only energy source your brain uses is glucose. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Grains are grass. In addition - and my primary problem with the whole paleo fad is with the increase in human population world wide, the amount of land available to 'grass' feed herbivores is shrinking both through human development and climate change. In the United States alone, currently the amount of range animals is the lowest it has been since the 1950s. At the same time, global fisheries are stressed to the point total collapse is a matter of if, not when. Even if you do not think converting the Amazon rain forest to pasture will have a delitorious impact on the global environment, the fact remains the added range land will not be sufficient to allow humanity to adopt a meat heavy diet. Unless the paleo advocates can come up with either a new source of ranges and some radical clean up of our waterways along with a magic way to get fish to reproduce more, the world will be far better off considering diets that use legumes as the primary protien source as the acerage requirement is significantly lower. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
the only energy source your brain uses is glucose. Uh, wrong. Ketones work wonderfully. Better for most of the brain, actually. A specific part of the brain requires glucose, which either can come from the liver making it (when ketogenic) or from starch ingested. A ketogenic diet is commonly used to treat epilepsy drug free. With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:24:36 AM UTC-6, Tim McNamara wrote: By the way, the only energy source your brain uses is glucose. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Wrong here too. In third world countries, herders are seeing the highest yields they've known returning to dense herds on grass. It helps reclaim land lost to desert bey promoting more growth. It turns unproductive land into productive land and feeds a lot more people. Check this TED Talk out: http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:31:10 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: Grains are grass. In addition - and my primary problem with the whole paleo fad is with the increase in human population world wide, the amount of land available to 'grass' feed herbivores is shrinking both through human development and climate change. In the United States alone, currently the amount of range animals is the lowest it has been since the 1950s. At the same time, global fisheries are stressed to the point total collapse is a matter of if, not when. Even if you do not think converting the Amazon rain forest to pasture will have a delitorious impact on the global environment, the fact remains the added range land will not be sufficient to allow humanity to adopt a meat heavy diet. Unless the paleo advocates can come up with either a new source of ranges and some radical clean up of our waterways along with a magic way to get fish to reproduce more, the world will be far better off considering diets that use legumes as the primary protien source as the acerage requirement is significantly lower. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
I think we should abandon this thread, it was only vaguely related to bikes and now has way gone off on a tangent. Doesnt anyone have a spring first ride report? I plan to have one soon, thankfully. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: Wrong here too. In third world countries, herders are seeing the highest yields they've known returning to dense herds on grass. It helps reclaim land lost to desert bey promoting more growth. It turns unproductive land into productive land and feeds a lot more people. Check this TED Talk out: http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:31:10 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: Grains are grass. In addition - and my primary problem with the whole paleo fad is with the increase in human population world wide, the amount of land available to 'grass' feed herbivores is shrinking both through human development and climate change. In the United States alone, currently the amount of range animals is the lowest it has been since the 1950s. At the same time, global fisheries are stressed to the point total collapse is a matter of if, not when. Even if you do not think converting the Amazon rain forest to pasture will have a delitorious impact on the global environment, the fact remains the added range land will not be sufficient to allow humanity to adopt a meat heavy diet. Unless the paleo advocates can come up with either a new source of ranges and some radical clean up of our waterways along with a magic way to get fish to reproduce more, the world will be far better off considering diets that use legumes as the primary protien source as the acerage requirement is significantly lower. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Doesnt anyone have a spring first ride report? My ten year old daughter does! Well, that is, if starting to commute by bike from home to school to the barn (for 4H) to the library and back home counts :-) Cheers! lyle On 13 March 2013 15:58, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote: I think we should abandon this thread, it was only vaguely related to bikes and now has way gone off on a tangent. Doesnt anyone have a spring first ride report? I plan to have one soon, thankfully. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.comwrote: Wrong here too. In third world countries, herders are seeing the highest yields they've known returning to dense herds on grass. It helps reclaim land lost to desert bey promoting more growth. It turns unproductive land into productive land and feeds a lot more people. Check this TED Talk out: http://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_green_the_world_s_deserts_and_reverse_climate_change.html With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 9:31:10 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: Grains are grass. In addition - and my primary problem with the whole paleo fad is with the increase in human population world wide, the amount of land available to 'grass' feed herbivores is shrinking both through human development and climate change. In the United States alone, currently the amount of range animals is the lowest it has been since the 1950s. At the same time, global fisheries are stressed to the point total collapse is a matter of if, not when. Even if you do not think converting the Amazon rain forest to pasture will have a delitorious impact on the global environment, the fact remains the added range land will not be sufficient to allow humanity to adopt a meat heavy diet. Unless the paleo advocates can come up with either a new source of ranges and some radical clean up of our waterways along with a magic way to get fish to reproduce more, the world will be far better off considering diets that use legumes as the primary protien source as the acerage requirement is significantly lower. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- lyle f bogart dpt 156 bradford rd wiscasset, me 04578 207.882.6494 206.794.6937 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Eat food, not too much, mostly greens.--Michael Pollan I love that. Seems like a good plan. Sadly, I have not been able to follow it. I will say that while my diet isn't ideal it's better than it was even 5 years ago and without a doubt it's better than what it was in my 20s. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
All Food is of the Mind and Spirit so what is there to debate ? Nuthin' ! Enjoy your life no matter who what where and when . Forgive yourself and forgive everyone. Not for arbitrary morality but because they are but a mirror of yourself. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
I eat mostly greens, by volume. By calories, fat. With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 2:13:19 PM UTC-6, Mike wrote: Eat food, not too much, mostly greens.--Michael Pollan I love that. Seems like a good plan. Sadly, I have not been able to follow it. I will say that while my diet isn't ideal it's better than it was even 5 years ago and without a doubt it's better than what it was in my 20s. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 11:08:06 AM UTC-4, numbnuts wrote: Hey All, If I remember correctly from my under grad days, when I studied, among other stuff, physical anthropology, there is more than a little evidence in the human family tree that our predecessors were eating stuff that needed to be crushed rather than sliced, so grasses, grains, etc. At least that's what we were taught. Regards, Chris Redding, Ca. Correct. Very early ancestors survived on tropical plants, new study suggests http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121214200916.htm Perry I ain't buyi the paleo fantasy bro science Bessas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
I don't know a lot about all the different views of this subject, but I do know my own results..I have MS and neuropathy in hands, feet. I came across a book called wheatbelly back in December of 2012...The author (a cardio doc) mentioned that thousands of his patients have improved their lives cutting out wheat, grains and sugars. He mentioned how lots of evidence is starting to look like many of the auto immune diseases are somehow related to gluten and the new age wheat we have formulated.(these aren't the wheats of our grandfathers). Just to see what would happen, i started Dec 10 with cutting out ALL grains, sugars and processed foods. results after 3 months: My left hand is actually working most of the time now...my brain fog is gone...Migraines are history...pain is half of what it was...cholesterol numbers have been cut by 67%...I am no longer on high blood pressure medsand the list goes on and on and onPersonally, I think the wheat that we created 30 years ago is killing us slowly, but each of us has to decide what works and what doesn't...I want to thank Grant for getting me started on this. I was talking with him last year and it was he who first talked to me about diet and how important it was for sustaining a healthy life (he even had me watch a youtube video)...I encourage everyone to try for yourself and see what happens...what have you got to lose? Sorry for preaching... On Mar 12, 10:30 pm, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever works for (anybody) is the right thing. A good way to test is to have a complete blood and lipid test (testing for Type A and B LDL, or else it does't tell you anything), and include A1C in there, too. Do that now (for instance) to see how your diet is working, and then go super low carb (or minimally, quit grains and beer for three months) and test again. Anybody can stand on a scale and look in a mirror and get a *feel* for how things are going, but the blood tests tell things the scale and mirror don't. For those unfamiliar, this is about a super low-carb diet that eliminates all grains and most other high-carb foods. It is based on the notion that the species Homo has been around for 2.5 million years, but has had access to vast amounts of carbohydrates only for the last 12,000 years at best (middle east, asia), and some cultures---notably Native Americans and Africans and Af-Americans, and notably not middle-easterners and asians— have had less than two hundred years to adapt to high-carb diets. People with long histories of carbs have in their saliva more amylase, an enzyme that pre-digests starch before you swallow it. But the famous skinny Asians that people tend to use to discredit low-carb diets--are eastern asians who eat like birds and work like bees---a fistful of white rice, some veges and fish---and that when they eat typical western diets, they plump up like the rest of us. And---this is longer than I'd planned to speak here—the science behind the benefits of low-carb comes down to one word: Insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that determines whether you store fat or burn it. I am not a scientist, but even the most conservative scientists acknowledge that in the absence of insulin we burn body fat and fuel our cells with ketones (a byproduct of fat breakdown); and in the presence of insulin we create fat and store fat and burn glucose for energy. So if you carb up for a long ride, you will burn the calories that you ate, but not your body fat. (Insulin spikes with carbohydrate intake.) Is there an endocrinologist in the house who cares to weigh in here? There is mounting evidence (spoiler alert: I will soon ask if there's an oncologist or a cellular biologist in the house) that cancer cells thrie in the presense of glucose (comes from carbs) but they cannot live on ketones (fuel used when carbs are restricted). So cancer cells have been known to shrink on ketogenic diets. Oncologist? Cellular biologist? Of course if your body fat is where you want it and your blood scores reveal a picture of inner health, then it would be nutty to change. BUT if you're not where you wanna be and your blood scores suck, then low-carb is worth...not dismissing just because it is counterintuitive. good site: theeatingacademy.com and nusi.org They are two good sites that anybody with an open mind and uncrossed arms may find interesting. Over and out on this. On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 4:55:21 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) recently hosted a very interesting discussion with the author of Wheat Belly. Podcast is available for download here: http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2013/02/07/are-wheat-free-diets-a-fad/ Also on the show was Timothy Caulfield, Canada Research Chair in Health Law and Policy at the University of Alberta. With all due respect to PeterG, Mr. Caulfield points out many times in the interview the danger of relying on anecdotal information and individual experiences. PeterG's recovery is remarkable, but it's not necessary proof that the Wheat Belly diet works. Mr. Davis, author of Wheat Belly, provides a number of individual accounts like PeterG's during the interview; Mr. Caulfield just as often points out that there are no clinical studies to prove what Mr. Davis says. Listen to the podcast. It's excellent. --Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com www.campyonly.com campyonlyguy.blogspot.com On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:32 AM, PeterG ssubman2...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't know a lot about all the different views of this subject, but I do know my own results..I have MS and neuropathy in hands, feet. I came across a book called wheatbelly back in December of 2012...The author (a cardio doc) mentioned that thousands of his patients have improved their lives cutting out wheat, grains and sugars. He mentioned how lots of evidence is starting to look like many of the auto immune diseases are somehow related to gluten and the new age wheat we have formulated.(these aren't the wheats of our grandfathers). Just to see what would happen, i started Dec 10 with cutting out ALL grains, sugars and processed foods. results after 3 months: My left hand is actually working most of the time now...my brain fog is gone...Migraines are history...pain is half of what it was...cholesterol numbers have been cut by 67%...I am no longer on high blood pressure medsand the list goes on and on and onPersonally, I think the wheat that we created 30 years ago is killing us slowly, but each of us has to decide what works and what doesn't...I want to thank Grant for getting me started on this. I was talking with him last year and it was he who first talked to me about diet and how important it was for sustaining a healthy life (he even had me watch a youtube video)...I encourage everyone to try for yourself and see what happens...what have you got to lose? Sorry for preaching... On Mar 12, 10:30 pm, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever works for (anybody) is the right thing. A good way to test is to have a complete blood and lipid test (testing for Type A and B LDL, or else it does't tell you anything), and include A1C in there, too. Do that now (for instance) to see how your diet is working, and then go super low carb (or minimally, quit grains and beer for three months) and test again. Anybody can stand on a scale and look in a mirror and get a *feel* for how things are going, but the blood tests tell things the scale and mirror don't. For those unfamiliar, this is about a super low-carb diet that eliminates all grains and most other high-carb foods. It is based on the notion that the species Homo has been around for 2.5 million years, but has had access to vast amounts of carbohydrates only for the last 12,000 years at best (middle east, asia), and some cultures---notably Native Americans and Africans and Af-Americans, and notably not middle-easterners and asians— have had less than two hundred years to adapt to high-carb diets. People with long histories of carbs have in their saliva more amylase, an enzyme that pre-digests starch before you swallow it. But the famous skinny Asians that people tend to use to discredit low-carb diets--are eastern asians who eat like birds and work like bees---a fistful of white rice, some veges and fish---and that when they eat typical western diets, they plump up like the rest of us. And---this is longer than I'd planned to speak here—the science behind the benefits of low-carb comes down to one word: Insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that determines whether you store fat or burn it. I am not a scientist, but even the most conservative scientists acknowledge that in the absence of insulin we burn body fat and fuel our cells with ketones (a byproduct of fat breakdown); and in the presence of insulin we create fat and store fat and burn glucose for energy. So if you carb up for a long ride, you will burn the calories that you ate, but not your body fat. (Insulin spikes with carbohydrate intake.) Is there an endocrinologist in the house who cares to weigh in here? There is mounting evidence (spoiler alert: I will soon ask if there's an oncologist or a cellular biologist in the house) that cancer cells thrie in the presense of glucose (comes from carbs) but they cannot live on ketones (fuel used when carbs are restricted). So cancer cells have been known to shrink on ketogenic diets.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Very early ancestors survived on tropical plants, new study suggests http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/12/121214200916.htm Perry I ain't buyi the paleo fantasy bro science Bessas It's all fine, but that study talks about apes (3 to 3.5 million years ago). Homo habilus, the first Homo, evolved around 2.5 MYA/ Apes vs Homo Gut length: Apes have about 3x the yardage, the better to digest raw plantfood with. They have upside-down cone-shaped rib cages and long torsoes, to better hold the long yards of guts. Jaw muscles: Apes have strong ones that attache atop the skull. The raw food requires massive muscles. The act of chewing compresses the skull, no big deal because the brain is small. Human jawmucles attach around the temple and are thin...and the thin-ness and lower attachment point came about (so some believe) as a result of eating progressively more chewable and digestible food. Short story, as short as I can make it, and even this is too long considering I agree with the change this topic advice...but I will take this liberty because I was named in an original post. Skip over if you don't care to listen to a guy with a 2-year junior college degree talk, shall we say, above his ken. It took about 500,000 years, from 3 million years ago to 2.5 MYA, to evolve the first human (Homo habilus), and it likely resulted from eating meat, since Hh was out of the jungle and living in grasslands, eating leftover carrion at first. Raw meat is like gum, unless it's kobe beef or sashimi, so he pounded and sliced it and tenderized it this way. This let him eat more of it AND made it more digestible. Over time, the dietary change shrunk the gut, weakend the jaw muscles, and let the skull and brain expand. The bigger brain led to other things, but among them, cooking meat. Cooked meat is a cinch to digest and eat more of, and soon (in evolutionary terms), we got Homo ergaster. Homo ergaster learned to cook and hunt--upping his meat consumption even more---and morphed into Homo heidelbergensis (this is all from memory, I'm not googling this as I go, so I may be off some). Homo heidelwith his bigger brain, learned ways of gathering even more meat--hunting with others, and of course this was helped by still more shrunken jaw muscles, bigger skull, and brain expension to go with the bigger skull. He also learned to bake and in general was largely a meat eater. Now and then a root or something else, but the point is, all of these evolutionary changes that cause Homo sapiens to evolve just 200,000 years ago are -- *related* to meat consumption, in some form or other. There were other things, but t is hard to make the case that the physical changes in guts and skulls, jaw muscles and brains---would have happened without meat. In any animal, the head geometry (including teeth) say something about the diet. The metabolic costs of pushing and digesting roughage through miles of guts to ultimate extract a few calories from them precludes growing a bigger brain, which, cubic centimeter by cubic centimeter, is the most metabolically expensive organ in the body. Something had to give, and it was the gut. This story is separate from any ethical issues that involve vegetariansim or greenhouse gases. Those are important, but purely in terms of what transpired along the evolutionary path from apes to Homo sapiens...meat had something to do with it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
At the other end of the spectrum there's always going food free... http://m.vice.com/read/rob-rhinehart-no-longer-requires-food?utm_source=vicefbus With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 5:55:21 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
If you want to hear an exchange between the guests about whether the Wheat Belly effect is real, listen to the podcast at 9:20 in ... --Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com www.campyonly.com campyonlyguy.blogspot.com On Mar 13, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com wrote: CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) recently hosted a very interesting discussion with the author of Wheat Belly. Podcast is available for download here: http://www.cbc.ca/q/blog/2013/02/07/are-wheat-free-diets-a-fad/ Also on the show was Timothy Caulfield, Canada Research Chair in Health Law and Policy at the University of Alberta. With all due respect to PeterG, Mr. Caulfield points out many times in the interview the danger of relying on anecdotal information and individual experiences. PeterG's recovery is remarkable, but it's not necessary proof that the Wheat Belly diet works. Mr. Davis, author of Wheat Belly, provides a number of individual accounts like PeterG's during the interview; Mr. Caulfield just as often points out that there are no clinical studies to prove what Mr. Davis says. Listen to the podcast. It's excellent. --Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com www.campyonly.com campyonlyguy.blogspot.com On Mar 13, 2013, at 9:32 AM, PeterG ssubman2...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't know a lot about all the different views of this subject, but I do know my own results..I have MS and neuropathy in hands, feet. I came across a book called wheatbelly back in December of 2012...The author (a cardio doc) mentioned that thousands of his patients have improved their lives cutting out wheat, grains and sugars. He mentioned how lots of evidence is starting to look like many of the auto immune diseases are somehow related to gluten and the new age wheat we have formulated.(these aren't the wheats of our grandfathers). Just to see what would happen, i started Dec 10 with cutting out ALL grains, sugars and processed foods. results after 3 months: My left hand is actually working most of the time now...my brain fog is gone...Migraines are history...pain is half of what it was...cholesterol numbers have been cut by 67%...I am no longer on high blood pressure medsand the list goes on and on and onPersonally, I think the wheat that we created 30 years ago is killing us slowly, but each of us has to decide what works and what doesn't...I want to thank Grant for getting me started on this. I was talking with him last year and it was he who first talked to me about diet and how important it was for sustaining a healthy life (he even had me watch a youtube video)...I encourage everyone to try for yourself and see what happens...what have you got to lose? Sorry for preaching... On Mar 12, 10:30 pm, grant grant...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever works for (anybody) is the right thing. A good way to test is to have a complete blood and lipid test (testing for Type A and B LDL, or else it does't tell you anything), and include A1C in there, too. Do that now (for instance) to see how your diet is working, and then go super low carb (or minimally, quit grains and beer for three months) and test again. Anybody can stand on a scale and look in a mirror and get a *feel* for how things are going, but the blood tests tell things the scale and mirror don't. For those unfamiliar, this is about a super low-carb diet that eliminates all grains and most other high-carb foods. It is based on the notion that the species Homo has been around for 2.5 million years, but has had access to vast amounts of carbohydrates only for the last 12,000 years at best (middle east, asia), and some cultures---notably Native Americans and Africans and Af-Americans, and notably not middle-easterners and asians— have had less than two hundred years to adapt to high-carb diets. People with long histories of carbs have in their saliva more amylase, an enzyme that pre-digests starch before you swallow it. But the famous skinny Asians that people tend to use to discredit low-carb diets--are eastern asians who eat like birds and work like bees---a fistful of white rice, some veges and fish---and that when they eat typical western diets, they plump up like the rest of us. And---this is longer than I'd planned to speak here—the science behind the benefits of low-carb comes down to one word: Insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that determines whether you store fat or burn it. I am not a scientist, but even the most conservative scientists acknowledge that in the absence of insulin we burn body fat and fuel our cells with ketones (a byproduct of fat breakdown); and in the presence of insulin we create fat and store fat and burn glucose for energy. So if you carb up for a long ride, you will burn the calories that you ate, but not your body fat. (Insulin spikes with carbohydrate intake.) Is there an endocrinologist in the house who cares to weigh in here? There is mounting evidence
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Based on the reviews I've read, the author appears to have incredibly poor logic and reason. For vibrant discussion see: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/huaraches/n8Ap2wV-iNI With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 5:55:21 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Wow. (Mentally flicking bits of mud off my computer.) --Eric Norris campyonly...@me.com www.campyonly.com campyonlyguy.blogspot.com On Mar 12, 2013, at 5:14 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: Based on the reviews I've read, the author appears to have incredibly poor logic and reason. For vibrant discussion see: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/huaraches/n8Ap2wV-iNI With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 5:55:21 PM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 5:14 PM, Deacon Patrick lamontg...@mac.com wrote: Based on the reviews I've read, the author appears to have incredibly poor logic and reason. For vibrant discussion see: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/huaraches/n8Ap2wV-iNI Those reviews are from people vested in the paleo diet, and what I read in your link has people attacking a point (e.g., blue eyes) and then someone pointing out why Zuk is right (or probably right). Anyone who thinks the diet issue has been settled by the paleo recommendations is fooling themselves. There is plenty of research showing that source of calories don't matter. Even at RBW the issue is not settled. There are several Riv-workers of Asian heritage who rightfully point out that a rice-heavy diet is not a recipe for obesity. I'm not trying to fan a flame war -- if it works for you, great. But to think that there aren't flaws in the reasoning behind this (or any) diet is fantasy. happy trails jim m wc ca -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
I haven't read Zuk's book, but this article seems to be focused on Zuk's refutations of various common conceptions and misconceptions of paleo peoples' lifestyles, from an evolutionary or anthropological perspective. I often think that the paleo adjective does more harm than good because it brings out the nitpickers (the role this article's author is playing) who like to focus on red herrings related to the belief that paleo people ate certain types of food or lived a certain way. What Zuk seems to be saying is: it's not that simple. I don't think anybody disagrees with that. I think even Zuk would agree that most people aren't well suited to the Standard American Diet based on refined grains and sugars and engineered fats. She'd probably also agree that a diet centered on high quality meats, vegetables, nuts, and eggs, is probably a healthier way to eat. On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:55:21 PM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Very very few people have gotten fat by eating too much raw spinach. :) On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:13:08 PM UTC-7, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: I haven't read Zuk's book, but this article seems to be focused on Zuk's refutations of various common conceptions and misconceptions of paleo peoples' lifestyles, from an evolutionary or anthropological perspective. I often think that the paleo adjective does more harm than good because it brings out the nitpickers (the role this article's author is playing) who like to focus on red herrings related to the belief that paleo people ate certain types of food or lived a certain way. What Zuk seems to be saying is: it's not that simple. I don't think anybody disagrees with that. I think even Zuk would agree that most people aren't well suited to the Standard American Diet based on refined grains and sugars and engineered fats. She'd probably also agree that a diet centered on high quality meats, vegetables, nuts, and eggs, is probably a healthier way to eat. On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 6:55:21 PM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Yeah. The presentation of health issues in the media suffers greatly from dumbing down and miscommunication, among other things. I looked at that Salon article and there are points that I don't believe an evolutionary biologist would have made in such an unqualified way, which suggests to me that the reviewer has misunderstood the science in the book... but you never know. I don't even really know what the paleo diet is (I can guess), I haven't read the Zuk book or any books on the topic, but I would humbly say that it's a good thing to be able to read about the conflicting points of view. Anyone with an interest would be better off reading the book and making up their own mind rather than worrying about the media's presentation of it. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: “Paleofantasy”: Stone Age delusions - Is Grant Eating the Wrong Stuff?
Whatever works for (anybody) is the right thing. A good way to test is to have a complete blood and lipid test (testing for Type A and B LDL, or else it does't tell you anything), and include A1C in there, too. Do that now (for instance) to see how your diet is working, and then go super low carb (or minimally, quit grains and beer for three months) and test again. Anybody can stand on a scale and look in a mirror and get a *feel* for how things are going, but the blood tests tell things the scale and mirror don't. For those unfamiliar, this is about a super low-carb diet that eliminates all grains and most other high-carb foods. It is based on the notion that the species Homo has been around for 2.5 million years, but has had access to vast amounts of carbohydrates only for the last 12,000 years at best (middle east, asia), and some cultures---notably Native Americans and Africans and Af-Americans, and notably not middle-easterners and asians— have had less than two hundred years to adapt to high-carb diets. People with long histories of carbs have in their saliva more amylase, an enzyme that pre-digests starch before you swallow it. But the famous skinny Asians that people tend to use to discredit low-carb diets--are eastern asians who eat like birds and work like bees---a fistful of white rice, some veges and fish---and that when they eat typical western diets, they plump up like the rest of us. And---this is longer than I'd planned to speak here—the science behind the benefits of low-carb comes down to one word: Insulin. Insulin is a metabolic hormone that determines whether you store fat or burn it. I am not a scientist, but even the most conservative scientists acknowledge that in the absence of insulin we burn body fat and fuel our cells with ketones (a byproduct of fat breakdown); and in the presence of insulin we create fat and store fat and burn glucose for energy. So if you carb up for a long ride, you will burn the calories that you ate, but not your body fat. (Insulin spikes with carbohydrate intake.) Is there an endocrinologist in the house who cares to weigh in here? There is mounting evidence (spoiler alert: I will soon ask if there's an oncologist or a cellular biologist in the house) that cancer cells thrie in the presense of glucose (comes from carbs) but they cannot live on ketones (fuel used when carbs are restricted). So cancer cells have been known to shrink on ketogenic diets. Oncologist? Cellular biologist? Of course if your body fat is where you want it and your blood scores reveal a picture of inner health, then it would be nutty to change. BUT if you're not where you wanna be and your blood scores suck, then low-carb is worth...not dismissing just because it is counterintuitive. good site: theeatingacademy.com and nusi.org They are two good sites that anybody with an open mind and uncrossed arms may find interesting. Over and out on this. On Tuesday, March 12, 2013 4:55:21 PM UTC-7, Eric Norris wrote: Thought this might be of interest to some on this list. I'm not an expert--or even an amateur--on the paleo living topic, but this article makes some interesting points. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/10/paleofantasy_stone_age_delusions/ --Eric N www.CampyOnly.com CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
