[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

You asked how long I had been biking so I basically told you most of my 
life - since perhaps 5 years old.  Not easy for a women to say her age in 
an open forum but I did. :)   I'm very flexible if that is what you are 
getting at so it's not like I can't ride a road bike if I wanted/preferred 
to with drop bars.  I guess you can say its an evolution but I'm not sure 
I'd contribute it to physical issues.  More riding for exercise and 
enjoyment - which is actually what I was doing in my 20's.

On Friday, May 13, 2016 at 3:25:49 PM UTC-4, pb wrote:
>
>
> On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 2:15:33 PM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>>
>> I'm 57 and been biking since I was a little girl. Interpret that as you 
>> will
>
>
>
> Huh?  Wouldn't it be more enlightening if you were to try to report 
> on what has motivated the changes in your tastes?  
>
> At 59 I find that I value comfort and stability more than I did as a 
> 20-year-old racer, just because I want to relax.  I find that my neck isn't 
> as flexible, and I need to run my bars higher.  My tastes were very 
> different at 25.
>
> ~pb 
>

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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

['pb' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 2:15:33 PM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>
> I'm 57 and been biking since I was a little girl. Interpret that as you 
> will



Huh?  Wouldn't it be more enlightening if you were to try to report on what 
has motivated the changes in your tastes?  

At 59 I find that I value comfort and stability more than I did as a 
20-year-old racer, just because I want to relax.  I find that my neck isn't 
as flexible, and I need to run my bars higher.  My tastes were very 
different at 25.

~pb 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Patrick Moore]

That's the group I remember; I think the magazine was more interesting back
then.

On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 8:42 AM, Bernie Burton 
wrote:

> I was a little known member of the Bicycling Magazine editorial health
> board from 1987 to 2001. Ed Pavelka, Fred Matheny, Dr. Ed Burke and the
> entirety of the editorial health board were summarily dismissed at the same
> time.
>
> Dr Bernie Burton
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> The editor I have in mind was quite a bit after DeLong and Bertoe; this
>> man was part of the team through the '90s, and among other entries I recall
>> his account of a record breaking - personal or absolute - ride through the
>> up and down terrain of Pennsylvania. He later had a blog, but I forget his
>> name -- aggressive roadie type, but interesting to read while, at the same
>> time, sneering smugly at his racer puritanism. A big man with curly hair,
>> IIRC -- which, given my weakness for remembering names, may not count for
>> much.
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 8:44 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> "... Of course, one reason I dumped Bicycling is that most of its
>>> writing was pretty dull, after they dumped their editors -- Bill
>>> Strickland, the aging, raging roadie whose name I forget, and others in the
>>> annum horribilem 2 decades or so ago ..."
>>>
>>> I used to subscribe for a number or years back in the mid-70's, too, and
>>> the tech editor I remember was Fred DeLong.  Not sure if that's who you're
>>> thinking of.  I will say this about mags like Bicycling - special interest
>>> periodicals tend to regurgitate the same old stuff in a cyclical fashion
>>> because how much can you talk about something in a niche, narrow scope
>>> without exhausting the material, doesn't matter if it's golf, fishing,
>>> archery, etc.  So, they tend to pick up new, unfamiliar readers on the
>>> front end and gradually drop the more experienced ones off the back.  It's
>>> a tough business and the new, fresh break throughs are few and far
>>> between.  Which is probably why they went along with the latest and
>>> greatest when all the aluminum, titanium, and CF stuff came along.  But the
>>> great thing about the old, old Bicycling was people like Fred and his
>>> always innovative ways of viewing something, including clever maintenance
>>> and repairs.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Bernie Burton]

I was a little known member of the Bicycling Magazine editorial health
board from 1987 to 2001. Ed Pavelka, Fred Matheny, Dr. Ed Burke and the
entirety of the editorial health board were summarily dismissed at the same
time.

Dr Bernie Burton

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The editor I have in mind was quite a bit after DeLong and Bertoe; this
> man was part of the team through the '90s, and among other entries I recall
> his account of a record breaking - personal or absolute - ride through the
> up and down terrain of Pennsylvania. He later had a blog, but I forget his
> name -- aggressive roadie type, but interesting to read while, at the same
> time, sneering smugly at his racer puritanism. A big man with curly hair,
> IIRC -- which, given my weakness for remembering names, may not count for
> much.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 8:44 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> "... Of course, one reason I dumped Bicycling is that most of its writing
>> was pretty dull, after they dumped their editors -- Bill Strickland, the
>> aging, raging roadie whose name I forget, and others in the annum
>> horribilem 2 decades or so ago ..."
>>
>> I used to subscribe for a number or years back in the mid-70's, too, and
>> the tech editor I remember was Fred DeLong.  Not sure if that's who you're
>> thinking of.  I will say this about mags like Bicycling - special interest
>> periodicals tend to regurgitate the same old stuff in a cyclical fashion
>> because how much can you talk about something in a niche, narrow scope
>> without exhausting the material, doesn't matter if it's golf, fishing,
>> archery, etc.  So, they tend to pick up new, unfamiliar readers on the
>> front end and gradually drop the more experienced ones off the back.  It's
>> a tough business and the new, fresh break throughs are few and far
>> between.  Which is probably why they went along with the latest and
>> greatest when all the aluminum, titanium, and CF stuff came along.  But the
>> great thing about the old, old Bicycling was people like Fred and his
>> always innovative ways of viewing something, including clever maintenance
>> and repairs.
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Patrick Moore]

The editor I have in mind was quite a bit after DeLong and Bertoe; this man
was part of the team through the '90s, and among other entries I recall his
account of a record breaking - personal or absolute - ride through the up
and down terrain of Pennsylvania. He later had a blog, but I forget his
name -- aggressive roadie type, but interesting to read while, at the same
time, sneering smugly at his racer puritanism. A big man with curly hair,
IIRC -- which, given my weakness for remembering names, may not count for
much.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 8:44 PM, George Schick  wrote:

> "... Of course, one reason I dumped Bicycling is that most of its writing
> was pretty dull, after they dumped their editors -- Bill Strickland, the
> aging, raging roadie whose name I forget, and others in the annum
> horribilem 2 decades or so ago ..."
>
> I used to subscribe for a number or years back in the mid-70's, too, and
> the tech editor I remember was Fred DeLong.  Not sure if that's who you're
> thinking of.  I will say this about mags like Bicycling - special interest
> periodicals tend to regurgitate the same old stuff in a cyclical fashion
> because how much can you talk about something in a niche, narrow scope
> without exhausting the material, doesn't matter if it's golf, fishing,
> archery, etc.  So, they tend to pick up new, unfamiliar readers on the
> front end and gradually drop the more experienced ones off the back.  It's
> a tough business and the new, fresh break throughs are few and far
> between.  Which is probably why they went along with the latest and
> greatest when all the aluminum, titanium, and CF stuff came along.  But the
> great thing about the old, old Bicycling was people like Fred and his
> always innovative ways of viewing something, including clever maintenance
> and repairs.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[George Schick]

"... Of course, one reason I dumped Bicycling is that most of its writing 
was pretty dull, after they dumped their editors -- Bill Strickland, the 
aging, raging roadie whose name I forget, and others in the annum 
horribilem 2 decades or so ago ..."

I used to subscribe for a number or years back in the mid-70's, too, and 
the tech editor I remember was Fred DeLong.  Not sure if that's who you're 
thinking of.  I will say this about mags like Bicycling - special interest 
periodicals tend to regurgitate the same old stuff in a cyclical fashion 
because how much can you talk about something in a niche, narrow scope 
without exhausting the material, doesn't matter if it's golf, fishing, 
archery, etc.  So, they tend to pick up new, unfamiliar readers on the 
front end and gradually drop the more experienced ones off the back.  It's 
a tough business and the new, fresh break throughs are few and far between. 
 Which is probably why they went along with the latest and greatest when 
all the aluminum, titanium, and CF stuff came along.  But the great thing 
about the old, old Bicycling was people like Fred and his always innovative 
ways of viewing something, including clever maintenance and repairs.


On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 7:43:55 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Well, perhaps not "nonsense" so much as the thoughtless assertion that 
> comes from having to fill column inches by a deadline? And, as Steve says, 
> perhaps he meant SRAM and Campy?
>
> Back to Bicycling: 30 years ago, when I started cycling again after a more 
> or less 10 year hiatus, I recall eagerly anticipating the next issue of 
> Bicycling at the grocery store, until I finally subscribed. I do think it 
> was a better mag 30 years ago, though. But after about 15 years of reading 
> it, the truth of what someone at a bike shop once said to me, "The same 
> articles come around again and again," became apparent, and I stopped 
> reading it -- about the same time, btw, that I dumped my lycra, helmet, and 
> padded gloves. Make of that what you will.
>
> I've subscribed to or at least read many bike mags -- Road Bike Action, 
> Mountain Bike Action (Zap Espinoza!!!), Dirt Rag, the omnium gatherum from 
> G Britain whose name I forget -- a big name, Velo News, BRIN, and of course 
> BQ. BQ is the only one I subscribe to now, and it's by far the best in most 
> categories.
>
> BUT!!! While BQ has expanded it coverage a great deal, where it falls 
> short is the quality and variety of writing. Understand me: not the quality 
> of the information -- that is head, shoulders, knees, and toes above 
> everything else. But while Zap, for instance, was no great thinker, even 
> limiting the discussions to bikes, even his MTB Action had a liveliness 
> that -- even while you spat condemnatory curses -- drew you at least 
> moderately to anticipate it. 
>
> Of course, one reason I dumped Bicycling is that most of its writing was 
> pretty dull, after they dumped their editors -- Bill Strickland, the aging, 
> raging roadie whose name I forget, and others in the annum horribilem 2 
> decades or so ago. 
>
> Spouting my own opinion from the housetops, I say that the best thing that 
> Jan can do for his otherwise excellent mag is to assemble a stable of good 
> writers who are also cycling afficionados. Keep the focus on 
> 650B/randoneuring/low trail/front loading/French constructeurs -- I love 
> reading about those, tho' the Jones, the Alaska fatbike expedition, and the 
> tours, are icing on the cake. The history in particular interests me a 
> great deal.
>
> But I think that BQ has outgrown its original scope and is on the verge of 
> becoming a truly popular, professionally kitted, cycling mag (the move to 
> color was another step). The one important step remaining, IMO, is boosting 
> the variety and style of the writing.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 1:07 PM, jeffrey kane  > wrote:
>
>> So much nonsense. He says *"the bikes are rare, and so are the brakes*" 
>> and then lists 11 models of currently available brake sets. 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Patrick Moore]

Well, perhaps not "nonsense" so much as the thoughtless assertion that
comes from having to fill column inches by a deadline? And, as Steve says,
perhaps he meant SRAM and Campy?

Back to Bicycling: 30 years ago, when I started cycling again after a more
or less 10 year hiatus, I recall eagerly anticipating the next issue of
Bicycling at the grocery store, until I finally subscribed. I do think it
was a better mag 30 years ago, though. But after about 15 years of reading
it, the truth of what someone at a bike shop once said to me, "The same
articles come around again and again," became apparent, and I stopped
reading it -- about the same time, btw, that I dumped my lycra, helmet, and
padded gloves. Make of that what you will.

I've subscribed to or at least read many bike mags -- Road Bike Action,
Mountain Bike Action (Zap Espinoza!!!), Dirt Rag, the omnium gatherum from
G Britain whose name I forget -- a big name, Velo News, BRIN, and of course
BQ. BQ is the only one I subscribe to now, and it's by far the best in most
categories.

BUT!!! While BQ has expanded it coverage a great deal, where it falls short
is the quality and variety of writing. Understand me: not the quality of
the information -- that is head, shoulders, knees, and toes above
everything else. But while Zap, for instance, was no great thinker, even
limiting the discussions to bikes, even his MTB Action had a liveliness
that -- even while you spat condemnatory curses -- drew you at least
moderately to anticipate it.

Of course, one reason I dumped Bicycling is that most of its writing was
pretty dull, after they dumped their editors -- Bill Strickland, the aging,
raging roadie whose name I forget, and others in the annum horribilem 2
decades or so ago.

Spouting my own opinion from the housetops, I say that the best thing that
Jan can do for his otherwise excellent mag is to assemble a stable of good
writers who are also cycling afficionados. Keep the focus on
650B/randoneuring/low trail/front loading/French constructeurs -- I love
reading about those, tho' the Jones, the Alaska fatbike expedition, and the
tours, are icing on the cake. The history in particular interests me a
great deal.

But I think that BQ has outgrown its original scope and is on the verge of
becoming a truly popular, professionally kitted, cycling mag (the move to
color was another step). The one important step remaining, IMO, is boosting
the variety and style of the writing.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 1:07 PM, jeffrey kane  wrote:

> So much nonsense. He says *"the bikes are rare, and so are the brakes*"
> and then lists 11 models of currently available brake sets.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Kyle Brooks]

I have at least one bike with modern componentry, all Campagnolo Centaur, 10 
speed. It's all on a recently-built Mercian, built for 57mm brakes. It is a 
shame that Campy doesn't make a longer reach brake, but I used a higher-end 
model of Tektros that had a really nice polished finish, nice barrel adjusters, 
and even an eccentric type quick release (something Campy brakes have lacked 
since the late 80s). I was vain enough to buff off the Tektro name, but 
otherwise the brakes look perfectly at home with the Campy group. And I can run 
larger volume tires easily for a great ride.

Oh yeah, and with the quick release button on the Campy Ergo levers, combined 
with the quick release on the brake calipers, I can open the brakes up extra 
wide for wheel removal.

Kyle Brooks
Akron, Ohio

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Doug Litchfield]

Maybe the Riv sensibilities wander even further afield?
http://pelotonmagazine.com/pages/lemond-bikes-radical-geometry/


On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:21 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 05/12/2016 12:56 PM, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
>> Yeah, but brakes are the exception to that. You can run long reach brakes
>> with pretty much any brand of road levers. So if anything, the author's
>> comment seems quite misleading to me. The way it's written suggests that if
>> you have Campy/SRAM you're out of luck to run long reach brakes. Which is
>> obviously not true.
>>
>>
>
> Or maybe he just means it's a shame Campagnolo and SRAM don't make long
> reach brakes?
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Daniel D.]

yup, you guys are funny sometimes

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 5:20:49 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
>   Bicycling magazine is what it has always been  it's just a* 
> magazine *!  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/12/2016 12:56 PM, Mark Reimer wrote:
Yeah, but brakes are the exception to that. You can run long reach 
brakes with pretty much any brand of road levers. So if anything, the 
author's comment seems quite misleading to me. The way it's written 
suggests that if you have Campy/SRAM you're out of luck to run long 
reach brakes. Which is obviously not true.





Or maybe he just means it's a shame Campagnolo and SRAM don't make long 
reach brakes?


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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I'm 57 and been biking since I was a little girl. Interpret that as you will

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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

['pb' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 1:07:33 PM UTC-7, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>
> I am a long time subscriber to that magazine and I find as my riding has 
> evolved/changed to a more Rivendell styled experience...
>


How long-time?  I wonder how much of that shift has to do with increased 
age as much as with anything else?  Stable bike, comfort, upright riding 
position?

~pb  

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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[jeffrey kane]

So much nonsense. He says *"the bikes are rare, and so are the brakes*" and 
then lists 11 models of currently available brake sets. 

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:30:35 PM UTC-4, Paul G wrote:
>
> Most, if not all, of us who visit this group know that one of Grant 
> Petersen's primary bicycle frame design goals is maximizing tire clearance 
> to allow a rider the option for wider tires than typical production 
> bicycles can fit. He has clearly explained this in multiple Reader issues 
> as well on the website. Parallel to this, he has complained about how 
> cycling mass media, such as Bicycling Magazine, misleads readers with 
> information that is not really in the interest of most riders (excessive 
> focus on performance and bike weight, general riding modeled after road 
> racing, etc).
>
> The industry is gradually changing towards wider tires, but the road bike 
> industry has been reluctant to move past short reach brakes. 
>
> In this Bicycling Magazine article from Jan. 2016 
> , 
> the author not only admits the poor job the magazine has done in 
> highlighting road bikes with more tire clearance and the benefits of more 
> brake reach in bicycle design, but even suggests the Roadeo as a fat-tired 
> (for road bikes) fendered road bike. Maybe there's still hope (sarcasm 
> intended)!
>
> Have a nice ride!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Paul G]

Here, here.

Actually, I had not considered the whole adherence-to-complete-groups 
thing, but completely agree. Your suggested fix to the article is perfect. 
I, myself, have a complete mish-mash of stuff on my Roadeo to suit my needs 
best. I didn't have stuff lying around either. I had to acquire each part. 
A roadie bike the frame may have been designed to be, but that's not how 
I've set it up. I even had DT shifter bosses custom brazed upon ordering to 
give me max options. Such a beautiful thing the perfect blending of 
optimized components is.

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 10:15:31 AM UTC-7, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Yes, it's disappointing that the author didn't make that more clear.
>
> I interpreted Ron Mc's "it's just the whole gruppo thing" to be a 
> regretful observation that many roadies are "complete-ists" and wouldn't 
> think of mixing and matching parts from other groups (let alone other 
> manufacturers).  
> Aka, it's too bad that they've bought into narrow-minded, race-oriented 
> design and marketing in component groups.  
> Bicycling magazine has reinforced this narrow-minded perspective, and I 
> believe that's why Paul G thought this article was remarkable.
>
> The author could have done those narrow-minded roadies a service by 
> saying, "If you want SRAM or Campagnolo long-reach brakes, you're out of 
> luck.  But, you can easily use any of the other brakes highlighted in this 
> article with your SRAM or Campagnolo brake levers or brifters."
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Tim Gavin]

Ron, please save your prickle for someone else.  I put no words in your
mouth and said pretty clearly "I interpreted Ron Mc's..."

I also said pretty clearly that this attitude stems from design and
marketing.


Have a great ride!  I really like your Viner!

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> well that's certainly extrapolating - here, have these words back that you
> put in my mouth.  It's more about marketing than anything
>
> On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it's disappointing that the author didn't make that more clear.
>>
>> I interpreted Ron Mc's "it's just the whole gruppo thing" to be a
>> regretful observation that many roadies are "complete-ists" and wouldn't
>> think of mixing and matching parts from other groups (let alone other
>> manufacturers).
>> Aka, it's too bad that they've bought into narrow-minded, race-oriented
>> design and marketing in component groups.
>> Bicycling magazine has reinforced this narrow-minded perspective, and I
>> believe that's why Paul G thought this article was remarkable.
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Ron Mc]

well that's certainly extrapolating - here, have these words back that you 
put in my mouth.  It's more about marketing than anything

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 12:15:31 PM UTC-5, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> Yes, it's disappointing that the author didn't make that more clear.
>
> I interpreted Ron Mc's "it's just the whole gruppo thing" to be a 
> regretful observation that many roadies are "complete-ists" and wouldn't 
> think of mixing and matching parts from other groups (let alone other 
> manufacturers).  
> Aka, it's too bad that they've bought into narrow-minded, race-oriented 
> design and marketing in component groups.  
> Bicycling magazine has reinforced this narrow-minded perspective, and I 
> believe that's why Paul G thought this article was remarkable.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Eric Norris]

It's like bag-matching, but with bike parts. Why would you want to mix things?

I'll bring this up as a topic with my matchy-matchy support group next week.

--Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On May 12, 2016, at 10:13 AM, sameness  wrote:
> 
> It's not just frowned up. It's just not done.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Tim Gavin]

Yes, it's disappointing that the author didn't make that more clear.

I interpreted Ron Mc's "it's just the whole gruppo thing" to be a regretful
observation that many roadies are "complete-ists" and wouldn't think of
mixing and matching parts from other groups (let alone other
manufacturers).
Aka, it's too bad that they've bought into narrow-minded, race-oriented
design and marketing in component groups.
Bicycling magazine has reinforced this narrow-minded perspective, and I
believe that's why Paul G thought this article was remarkable.

The author could have done those narrow-minded roadies a service by saying,
"If you want SRAM or Campagnolo long-reach brakes, you're out of luck.
But, you can easily use any of the other brakes highlighted in this article
with your SRAM or Campagnolo brake levers or brifters."


On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Mark Reimer  wrote:

> Yeah, but brakes are the exception to that. You can run long reach brakes
> with pretty much any brand of road levers. So if anything, the author's
> comment seems quite misleading to me. The way it's written suggests that if
> you have Campy/SRAM you're out of luck to run long reach brakes. Which is
> obviously not true.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps Ron means that the "gruppo" thing (or, if you prefer, "groupo")
>> now more than before locks you in to one manufacturer's thrall, what with
>> the much greater precision required to shift 11 speeds, pre-attached bb
>> spindles, and the like.
>>
>> Me, I *do* like groups, at least old ones (SunTour Superbe Pro! Shimano
>> 600! Dura Ace 7410! All but 7100 brake calipers!) for aesthetic reasons,
>> tho' none of my bikes is full anything.
>>
>> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:
>>
>>> "it's just the whole gruppo thing"
>>>
>>> That's even more confusing to me.   It's bad when things are designed to
>>> work well together?   This seems to be a particularly strange part of the
>>> cycling world.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:
>>>
 it's just the whole gruppo thing

 --

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Ron Mc]

it's a lot of fun to design your bike, use the best parts at the best 
prices you can find



especially when you designed it to work together well

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[sameness]

I think this brings us full circle to the gruppo point. 

My admittedly limited personal interactions with the type of roadie who 
likely represents this magazine's target audience is that mixing group 
components, let alone manufacturers, is tantamount to apostasy. 

It's not just frowned up. It's *just not done*.

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

On Thursday, May 12, 2016 at 9:56:49 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> Yeah, but brakes are the exception to that. You can run long reach brakes 
> with pretty much any brand of road levers. So if anything, the author's 
> comment seems quite misleading to me. The way it's written suggests that if 
> you have Campy/SRAM you're out of luck to run long reach brakes. Which is 
> obviously not true. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Mark Reimer]

Yeah, but brakes are the exception to that. You can run long reach brakes
with pretty much any brand of road levers. So if anything, the author's
comment seems quite misleading to me. The way it's written suggests that if
you have Campy/SRAM you're out of luck to run long reach brakes. Which is
obviously not true.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Perhaps Ron means that the "gruppo" thing (or, if you prefer, "groupo")
> now more than before locks you in to one manufacturer's thrall, what with
> the much greater precision required to shift 11 speeds, pre-attached bb
> spindles, and the like.
>
> Me, I *do* like groups, at least old ones (SunTour Superbe Pro! Shimano
> 600! Dura Ace 7410! All but 7100 brake calipers!) for aesthetic reasons,
> tho' none of my bikes is full anything.
>
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:
>
>> "it's just the whole gruppo thing"
>>
>> That's even more confusing to me.   It's bad when things are designed to
>> work well together?   This seems to be a particularly strange part of the
>> cycling world.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:
>>
>>> it's just the whole gruppo thing
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps Ron means that the "gruppo" thing (or, if you prefer, "groupo") now
more than before locks you in to one manufacturer's thrall, what with the
much greater precision required to shift 11 speeds, pre-attached bb
spindles, and the like.

Me, I *do* like groups, at least old ones (SunTour Superbe Pro! Shimano
600! Dura Ace 7410! All but 7100 brake calipers!) for aesthetic reasons,
tho' none of my bikes is full anything.

On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 5:59 AM, Scott Henry  wrote:

> "it's just the whole gruppo thing"
>
> That's even more confusing to me.   It's bad when things are designed to
> work well together?   This seems to be a particularly strange part of the
> cycling world.
>
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:
>
>> it's just the whole gruppo thing
>>
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**
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RE: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[olofstroh]

No, but it´s bad when things are designed not to work well together just 
because somebody else have made one of the parts.

 

Olof „the good thing with standards is that there are so may of them“  Stroh

Uppsala Sweden

 

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott Henry
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2016 2:00 PM
To: Riv List
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

 

"it's just the whole gruppo thing"

That's even more confusing to me.   It's bad when things are designed to work 
well together?   This seems to be a particularly strange part of the cycling 
world.   

 

 

On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Ron Mc <bulldog...@gmail.com> wrote:

it's just the whole gruppo thing

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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Garth]

  Bicycling magazine is what it has always been  it's just a* magazine *!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Scott Henry]

"it's just the whole gruppo thing"

That's even more confusing to me.   It's bad when things are designed to
work well together?   This seems to be a particularly strange part of the
cycling world.


On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> it's just the whole gruppo thing
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Ron Mc]

it's just the whole gruppo thing

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Steve Palincsar]

On 05/11/2016 04:42 PM, Ron Mc wrote:
it was a good article right up to the, /unfortunately, SRAM and 
Campagnolo don't make long-reach brakes/




Wouldn't it be a good thing if they did?


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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Ron Mc]

it was a good article right up to the, *unfortunately, SRAM and Campagnolo 
don't make long-reach brakes*

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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Mark Reimer]

The magazine has done a few interesting things in the last year or two 
along those viens. Remember when Benedict Wheeler was on the cover, doing a 
skid on his basket bike and 2" slicks, panniers, flat pedals, etc? And I 
think there's been some coverage of a few other expeditionary rides from 
the Yonder Journal group, which often included fairly Riv-ish attitudes and 
bikes. Glad to see it!

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 2:30:35 PM UTC-5, Paul G wrote:
>
> Most, if not all, of us who visit this group know that one of Grant 
> Petersen's primary bicycle frame design goals is maximizing tire clearance 
> to allow a rider the option for wider tires than typical production 
> bicycles can fit. He has clearly explained this in multiple Reader issues 
> as well on the website. Parallel to this, he has complained about how 
> cycling mass media, such as Bicycling Magazine, misleads readers with 
> information that is not really in the interest of most riders (excessive 
> focus on performance and bike weight, general riding modeled after road 
> racing, etc).
>
> The industry is gradually changing towards wider tires, but the road bike 
> industry has been reluctant to move past short reach brakes. 
>
> In this Bicycling Magazine article from Jan. 2016 
> , 
> the author not only admits the poor job the magazine has done in 
> highlighting road bikes with more tire clearance and the benefits of more 
> brake reach in bicycle design, but even suggests the Roadeo as a fat-tired 
> (for road bikes) fendered road bike. Maybe there's still hope (sarcasm 
> intended)!
>
> Have a nice ride!
>

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[RBW] Re: Bicycling Magazine redeems itself...a little.

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I am a long time subscriber to that magazine and I find as my riding has 
evolved/changed to a more Rivendell styled experience, I just leaf through 
the magazine and recycle it within a day.  The test bikes are almost all 
road/race bikes and nothing much there for me to sink my teeth in to.  I 
get it for a good price so I just keep renewing it.  I find enjoyment from 
Bicycling Quarterly and Bicycle Times magazines.

On Wednesday, May 11, 2016 at 3:30:35 PM UTC-4, Paul G wrote:
>
> Most, if not all, of us who visit this group know that one of Grant 
> Petersen's primary bicycle frame design goals is maximizing tire clearance 
> to allow a rider the option for wider tires than typical production 
> bicycles can fit. He has clearly explained this in multiple Reader issues 
> as well on the website. Parallel to this, he has complained about how 
> cycling mass media, such as Bicycling Magazine, misleads readers with 
> information that is not really in the interest of most riders (excessive 
> focus on performance and bike weight, general riding modeled after road 
> racing, etc).
>
> The industry is gradually changing towards wider tires, but the road bike 
> industry has been reluctant to move past short reach brakes. 
>
> In this Bicycling Magazine article from Jan. 2016 
> , 
> the author not only admits the poor job the magazine has done in 
> highlighting road bikes with more tire clearance and the benefits of more 
> brake reach in bicycle design, but even suggests the Roadeo as a fat-tired 
> (for road bikes) fendered road bike. Maybe there's still hope (sarcasm 
> intended)!
>
> Have a nice ride!
>

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