Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bob Lovejoy]

Scratch my HC front rack idea...  A Mark's rack it will be!

Ahh, the details...

Bob


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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bob Lovejoy]

Congrats Sean!   

Like I said, a bike that makes one smile (and remember the smile!) is a 
great thing...  I am envious of your chance to ride a Cheviot before 
ordering.  Not that I have any doubts but it would have been nice.  

My build should end up very close to yours, Tubus rear rack, Albatross 
bars, etc.  I have a Haulin' Colin front rack that might work and will be 
good for experimenting, otherwise it will be a Mark's like yours.  And I 
agree with Joe that the grey makes it possible to do a lot of subtle (or 
not) things with color and accents.

Anyway, congratulations!  May the frames arrive quickly, at least at the 
perfect time, and be destined for great rides and fun.

I will say I think I am ahead of you on the mixte issue!  I ride a yellow 
Brompton folding bike a lot, for commuting, for errands, for fun, etc. and 
with that, any sense of being seen as 100% normal faded some time ago. But 
people see how useful it is, how much fun is possible, what change can look 
like and it all works out well, mostly.  :>)

Enjoy the new (future) bike and ride!

Bob   


>
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Joe Bernard]

I think that bike looks great in grey. One cool thing about that color is you 
can "paint" it with bar tape, cages and cables to brighten it up later if you'd 
like. Red accents would be awesome!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[SeanMac]

I wanted to again thank everyone for their comments about the Rivendell 
Cheviot.  I'm happy to say that I did finally pull the trigger - a few days 
ago I put a deposit down on a Cheviot!  I decided to go with the grey color 
- 60 cm (my pbh is 86.  I rode a 60 Cheviot a few weeks ago and Riv HQ and 
really felt comfortable on it).  I'm really excited.

I had a hard time choosing between the orange and the grey frame.  I really 
like the orange color.  In the end, however, I decided that the grey color 
would be a bit more understated - which is probably good for a guy who 
still is not 100 % comfortable about the mixtie thing (I am about 92% okay 
with it right now).  I live in a town of less than 7,000 people - we have 
traffic, but not enough that having a bright colored bike is a huge concern.

I plan to use Albatross bars, Brooks B 17 and a front rack (Mark's) and a 
rear rack (Tubus) from a Trek 520 that I now use as my townie.  I also hope 
that I can use the wheels from that bike - they are DT Swiss touring 
wheels.  I ordered a new front and rear derailer (Shimano CX 70 for the 
front and Altus for the rear) and a Sugino XD2 wide/low crank.

Again, thanks for all of your help in making this decision.

Sean


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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Is there a report that this cannibalization is actually happening? If so, 
why the company just came out with three new Chev colors is puzzling, 
though it may have something to do with long lead times--or an attempt to 
"revive" the model. I have no idea if the active members on this list 
represents the proportion of female to male Rivendell customers (doubt it 
and hope not!) but I would still think that the Clem L is a tougher sell to 
the core audience than the Cheviot. For example, you say the Chev would be 
the perfect bike if it had the Hunq fork (Clem L-check), more bottle 
braze-ons (Clem L-check) and cantis (Clem L-check). The geos are almost 
identical. Your modified Chev is..a Clem L. But the Clementine just does 
not do it for you. I get it.

Mixtes have a certain cache and following among male riders--nothing like 
the fixed gear phenomenon, but well enough established. A step through is 
another thing altogether, and while the Dutch-style city bikes are also in 
resurgence (Public has one, and claims the 7-speed derailleur version is 
its best-selling city bike), my guess is it's a much tougher sell to 
men--none of the models pictured on/with the Public Dutch bikes are men. 
For that matter, none are pictured with the mixtes either. Between that and 
the color palettes over there, obviously that smart guy from Design Within 
Reach is heavily targeting female buyers

Various Rivs have various tire clearances as part of the design parameters. 
Max tire size affects bb heights, brake options, standover (not so much a 
deal killer on Chevs, with their double sloping top tubes) and other 
handling features. I recall someone on the list placing an order for a 
custom Riv mixte. With the number of "minor" modifications you list, that 
might be the perfect bike for you. Or trade in your Clem H for an L ;^) I 
ride my Clementine to pick up my quiche. 

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 7:03:31 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Kind of a shame.  If the Clem L is killing the Chev, i almost think this 
> is more of the reason than the price.  A hunq fork crown and cantis (and 
> bottle cage brazeons?) could transform the Chev into a perfect bike for me. 
>  I wonder if heel clearance would be an issue with brakes mounted on the 
> middle seat stays.  Wasn't there talk of being able to request minor 
> modifications like these and/or other colors for a small upcharge sometime 
> soon?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[iamkeith]

Kind of a shame.  If the Clem L is killing the Chev, i almost think this is 
more of the reason than the price.  A hunq fork crown and cantis (and bottle 
cage brazeons?) could transform the Chev into a perfect bike for me.  I wonder 
if heel clearance would be an issue with brakes mounted on the middle seat 
stays.  Wasn't there talk of being able to request minor modifications like 
these and/or other colors for a small upcharge sometime soon?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[iamkeith]

Kind of a shame.  If the Clem L is killing the Chev, i almost think this is 
more of the reason than the price.  A hunq fork crown and cantis (and bottle 
cage brazeons?) could transform the Chev into a perfect bike for me.  I wonder 
if heel clearance would be an issue with brakes mounted on the middle seat 
stays.  Wasn't there talk of being able to request minor modifications like 
these and/or other colors for a small upcharge sometime soon?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Clayton.sf]

50 is about the max. 

If you are running fenders, adding a centerpull (I use diacompe) in the front 
greatly increases breathing room.

I have run 47mm with fenders on my 60cm and that was tight. 42s are preferred.

Clayton Scot
SF, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jon in central Colorado]

Brian told me that 50 was max on the Cheviot.


>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[iamkeith]

Thanks, Bob & Eric.  Not the answer i hoped for, but helpful.  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bob Lovejoy]

A search for "cheviot tire clearance" in this list turns up this...  Great 
build and beautiful bike!  The pictures in that post answer at least some 
of the questions.  700x50 Big Applies would seem to be about the largest 
tire that would work.  And, I suspect, with the fluctuation in actual tire 
measurements, some may work, others not.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/R3KzXAoKDSo/wh8CH1B1EgAJ

Bob


On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 10:39:14 AM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Does anybody happen to have a 60cm Chev, and would you be willing to take 
> some measurements and photos of the tire clearance?  Also (or maybe more 
> important), is the tightest spot at the fork blades or the chainstays or 
> the brakes themselves?  
>
> The last call revelation plus the new colors have me thinking about the 
> Chev again, but the clearance is tire size limit is still the thing that 
> gives me pause.  I know the Clem L solves that, but I'm not attracted to it 
> for some reason.  
>
> Is there any realistic way I'd be able to move the 2.3 Super Motos from my 
> Clem to a Chev so i can trade up?  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[iamkeith]

Does anybody happen to have a 60cm Chev, and would you be willing to take some 
measurements and photos of the tire clearance?  Also (or maybe more important), 
is the tightest spot at the fork blades or the chainstays or the brakes 
themselves?  

The last call revelation plus the new colors have me thinking about the Chev 
again, but the clearance is tire size limit is still the thing that gives me 
pause.  I know the Clem L solves that, but I'm not attracted to it for some 
reason.  

Is there any realistic way I'd be able to move the 2.3 Super Motos from my Clem 
to a Chev so i can trade up?  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bob Lovejoy]

Michael,

Do you think she is possibly measuring the CS length from, say, the back of 
the BB?  I can see where measuring chain stay length has at least several 
interpretations.  I have come to measure CS length from the center of the 
BB to the rear dropout or center of the rear axle but I am definitely 
willing to be schooled on what is correct.

Just throwing it out there... Might be worth the question.

Bob

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 9:17:13 AM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I have seen what the web site states; but when I asked my daughter to 
> measure the CS on her 50 cm Cheviot, she reported 42.5.  She lives about 40 
> miles from me, but the next time I am at her home I will measure them 
> myself just to make sure we are starting at the same point.  
>
> Michael
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Michael Hechmer]

I have seen what the web site states; but when I asked my daughter to 
measure the CS on her 50 cm Cheviot, she reported 42.5.  She lives about 40 
miles from me, but the next time I am at her home I will measure them 
myself just to make sure we are starting at the same point.  

Michael

On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 9:46:10 AM UTC-4, Shoji Takahashi wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
> The Cheviot has chain stays that get longer with larger sizes. (Chart pic 
> on http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-cheviot.htm)
> 50cm frame -- 45cm chain stay
> 55 frame -- 50cm chain stay
> 60 frame -- 54cm chain stay
>  
> I think this is fairly unusual for a manufacturer to have different chain 
> stays for different sizes. Grant wrote about how frames get taller faster 
> than they get longer in one of the Readers. This seems a more 
> "proportionate" way to size frames-- but I don't know if it is meaningful 
> (or not). 
>
> If you're in between sizes, then this might be another thing to consider. 
>
> shoji
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 7:36:53 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> My wife's  55 cm Betty has 43.5 cm chain stays.  I know that the RBW site 
>> list the Cheviot at 45cm, but I couldn't see any difference when I built my 
>> daughter's bike up.  I called her and asked her to measure the chain stay 
>> on her 50 cm Cheviot and she got 16.75", which comes to 42.5.  She may be 
>> wrong but she is certainly not off by an inch.  Perhaps there was a design 
>> change since the introduction.  We bought the last of the first batch.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:54:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Daume wrote:
>>>
>>> They Cheviot has significantly longer stays than the Betty. It's more 
>>> than just a color and name change (that was the Yves Gomez model)
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Michael Hechmer  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
 Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
 and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
 changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
 made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't 
 let 
 others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
 however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in 
 my mind is a big, big, plus.

 Michael

 On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me. 
>  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  
> I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned 
> home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase 
> one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  
> I nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I 
> found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob 
> Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to 
> ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  
> Nearly all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily 
> transfer 
> to the Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for 
> the 
> frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the 
> bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit 

Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Michael,
The Cheviot has chain stays that get longer with larger sizes. (Chart pic 
on http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/f-cheviot.htm)
50cm frame -- 45cm chain stay
55 frame -- 50cm chain stay
60 frame -- 54cm chain stay
 
I think this is fairly unusual for a manufacturer to have different chain 
stays for different sizes. Grant wrote about how frames get taller faster 
than they get longer in one of the Readers. This seems a more 
"proportionate" way to size frames-- but I don't know if it is meaningful 
(or not). 

If you're in between sizes, then this might be another thing to consider. 

shoji



On Tuesday, August 16, 2016 at 7:36:53 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> My wife's  55 cm Betty has 43.5 cm chain stays.  I know that the RBW site 
> list the Cheviot at 45cm, but I couldn't see any difference when I built my 
> daughter's bike up.  I called her and asked her to measure the chain stay 
> on her 50 cm Cheviot and she got 16.75", which comes to 42.5.  She may be 
> wrong but she is certainly not off by an inch.  Perhaps there was a design 
> change since the introduction.  We bought the last of the first batch.
>
> Michael
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:54:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>> They Cheviot has significantly longer stays than the Betty. It's more 
>> than just a color and name change (that was the Yves Gomez model)
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Michael Hechmer  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
>>> Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
>>> and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
>>> changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
>>> made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let 
>>> others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
>>> however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in 
>>> my mind is a big, big, plus.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:

 Hi folks,

 I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
 ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
 Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
 when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
 done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
 Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
 Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
 can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
 I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase 
 one 
 before they go away.  Here is my situation.

 About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  
 I nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
 poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
 complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
 quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
 it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
 bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
 geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
 Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
 typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
 bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
 grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to 
 ride, 
 but it gets the job done.

 In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
 all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
 Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.

 I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
 Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the 
 bike 
 long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
 thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
 the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
 did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
 simply enjoying the ride.

 I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
 two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
 type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) 
 that 
 I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
 bikes?

Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Michael Hechmer]

My wife's  55 cm Betty has 43.5 cm chain stays.  I know that the RBW site 
list the Cheviot at 45cm, but I couldn't see any difference when I built my 
daughter's bike up.  I called her and asked her to measure the chain stay 
on her 50 cm Cheviot and she got 16.75", which comes to 42.5.  She may be 
wrong but she is certainly not off by an inch.  Perhaps there was a design 
change since the introduction.  We bought the last of the first batch.

Michael

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 7:54:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Daume wrote:
>
> They Cheviot has significantly longer stays than the Betty. It's more than 
> just a color and name change (that was the Yves Gomez model)
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Michael Hechmer  > wrote:
>
>> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
>> Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
>> and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
>> changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
>> made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let 
>> others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
>> however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in 
>> my mind is a big, big, plus.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>>
>>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>>> but it gets the job done.
>>>
>>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>>
>>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>>
>>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>>> bikes?
>>>
>>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
>>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>>
>>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sean
>>> East Aurora, NY
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Caroline Golum]

Oh snap! Figured the Clem would have a better configuration than a 
traditional Dutch step-through. And since you asked, here's an OK picture 
of Betty in Central Park, near the boat launch. Hard to see from here, but 
I have a weird configuration that always gets compliments at bike shops: 
10-speed 105 cassette/derailleur in the rear, single in the front, with one 
bar-end shifter. Fenders are SKS plastic, I prefer them head and shoulders 
above the VO metal ones that I had on their in a previous iteration.  




On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 7:22:34 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Hi Caroline. Welcome. Would be great to see a pic of your City Betty with 
> the racy Albatross bars! Regarding the comparison of the Clementine to the 
> Dutch city bikes, while they share the drooped top tube feature, the Dutch 
> bikes have a significantly different geometry, practically heading into 
> recumbent territory. As for the Clementine and loads, I carry 15-40 pounds, 
> distributed between rear panniers and front basket, with regularity on my 
> 52cm Clementine. It carries these burdens without complaint, and no flex 
> issues for me at 170ish, though I may be a few pounds lighter this week due 
> to water loss! (The Dutch bike pictured above is from Lovely Bicycle 
> .) 
> This message is a public service of the Knights of Clementine Society, 
> dedicated to defending the honor of Clementines everywhere.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 1:54:53 AM UTC-4, Caroline Golum wrote:
>  
>
>> As for the Clementine - just from experience working in different shops, 
>> I find that traditional Dutch step-through style to be a little lacking for 
>> longer rides and heavier loads, but if that's what you're trying to do it 
>> seems perfect!
>>
>>  
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

something like this would work for me

On Sunday, August 14, 2016 at 10:47:25 PM UTC-5, Jame E wrote:
>
> I have another mixte, but I did want to make a recommendation to those of 
> you with mixte or other step-through frames.
>
> I have this leather frame handle 
> 
>  
> on my bike. I am sure a crafty person could better one as well (the prices 
> has increased quite a bit since I purchased).  But this makes it way easier 
> to navigate the stairs with my mixte.  It puts your hand in the perfect 
> place!
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:30:14 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>>
>> Hey Sean,
>>
>> I've owned both the Chev & Sam, before switching to the Hunq which fit 
>> more of my fat tire needs, and the ability to shoulder my bike up and down 
>> my apartment stairs.
>>
>> If  you don't have to carry the bike up and down any stairs and don't 
>> need room for more than 45mm tires, I think the Chev is an excellent choice 
>> for what you want. The Sam with albatross bars didn't quite work well even 
>> when I had it with a 110mm stem, my hands kept getting pushed to the 
>> curves, but the Albatross bars work so well with the Chev. I personally had 
>> a better time riding the Chev than the Sam.
>>
>> If the Chev had cantis/v brakes, I would definitely have kept it. I still 
>> love my Hunq though.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>>
>>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>>> but it gets the job done.
>>>
>>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>>
>>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>>
>>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>>> bikes?
>>>
>>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
>>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>>
>>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sean
>>> East Aurora, NY
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jame E]

I have another mixte, but I did want to make a recommendation to those of 
you with mixte or other step-through frames.

I have this leather frame handle 

 
on my bike. I am sure a crafty person could better one as well (the prices 
has increased quite a bit since I purchased).  But this makes it way easier 
to navigate the stairs with my mixte.  It puts your hand in the perfect 
place!

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:30:14 AM UTC-7, Philip Kim wrote:
>
> Hey Sean,
>
> I've owned both the Chev & Sam, before switching to the Hunq which fit 
> more of my fat tire needs, and the ability to shoulder my bike up and down 
> my apartment stairs.
>
> If  you don't have to carry the bike up and down any stairs and don't need 
> room for more than 45mm tires, I think the Chev is an excellent choice for 
> what you want. The Sam with albatross bars didn't quite work well even when 
> I had it with a 110mm stem, my hands kept getting pushed to the curves, but 
> the Albatross bars work so well with the Chev. I personally had a better 
> time riding the Chev than the Sam.
>
> If the Chev had cantis/v brakes, I would definitely have kept it. I still 
> love my Hunq though.
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>
>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>> but it gets the job done.
>>
>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>
>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>
>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>> bikes?
>>
>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>
>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>> East Aurora, NY
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Sean McAtee]

Howard -

Congratulations on your frame order!  I noticed earlier today that there
were only three grey Cheviots left.  I have a funny feeling that I am going
to follow your lead before the day is over.  A Cheviot is quickly becoming
the bike that I do not want to let get away.

I can't seem to recall past practice on "older" frames when a new set
arrives.  Is it likely that the remaining "old" Cheviots in stock will be
priced a bit lower as a web special?  I do like the green color of the
current frame.  However, it lacks the cream headtube of the newer models.

I will be moving the vast majority of the parts over from an old Trek 520 -
Albastache bars, Brooks B 17 saddle, Shimano derailleurs, etc.  However, I
will need to get a new set of wheels, as my current bikes all have 130 cm
rear hub spacing.  I'm probably going to buy an inexpensive set of wheels,
such as these currently being offered by Rivendell:  wheels
.  I will also likely add
a new crank - likely the Sugino XD2 wide/low.

I am looking at using a Cheviot for the same general purposes as you.
Congratulations again.

Sean



On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 5:10 PM, Howard Hatten  wrote:

> Hi Leah
> Not sure when I'll take delivery. Sounds like frames are on the way to
> RBW.  I'm going with a frame set. Not sure how the build will end up. I
> plan to make this my grocery getter & pub crawler. Winter project I suspect.
> Howard
> Livonia Mi
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Howard Hatten]

Hi Leah
Not sure when I'll take delivery. Sounds like frames are on the way to RBW.  
I'm going with a frame set. Not sure how the build will end up. I plan to make 
this my grocery getter & pub crawler. Winter project I suspect. 
Howard
Livonia Mi

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Leah Peterson]

Beyond excited for you. Envious, even! When do you expect to take delivery? 
Whole bike, or frame set?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 14, 2016, at 1:14 PM, Howard Hatten  wrote:
> 
> Been following this post. I've been trying to decide if I want that 60 green 
> demo Chev.  RBW is currently listing or that grey with cream accents frame 
> set. Bobs post that he has a 60 on order led me to search the quantity 
> availability. Wow, only 4 60cm's left in grey.  What to do, what to do.  
> Decided, now there's only 3 left. 
> 
> Howard
> Waiting in Livonia Mi. 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Howard Hatten]

Been following this post. I've been trying to decide if I want that 60 green 
demo Chev.  RBW is currently listing or that grey with cream accents frame set. 
Bobs post that he has a 60 on order led me to search the quantity availability. 
Wow, only 4 60cm's left in grey.  What to do, what to do.  Decided, now there's 
only 3 left. 

Howard
Waiting in Livonia Mi. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I think your current green bags will be fantastically attractive with a 
gray Chev.  Regarding your color choice, when choosing between orange and 
black for my Clementine, though I like orange bikes, I went with black, 
partially because there is a rather prominent Public mixte in town in 
bright orange, and the step-through style for a man seemed to call for 
something more understated. I was not overly concerned with visibility, as 
I almost always wear a hi-vis safety vest when commuting, and run lights in 
the daytime. I would have been equally happy with the Clem (now Chev) gray 
or Cheviut green, but neither was an option in the Clementine. 

It sounds like the Cheviot will be just the ticket for you! It's great you 
got to ride both bicycles a decent amount before making a decision. Being 
in New York, that was not a possibility at the time. I seriously considered 
the Chev, but several factors made the Clementine a clear choice for my 
needs. I already had a mixte style bike, and though I am sure the Cheviot 
would be "better" in some respects than my Rivved out Le Tour--well, I 
already had a mixte. Also I was on the cutting edge of both sizes. My 
philosophy on that is the bike will work just fine, your body will adjust. 
But while I could easily handle the 60cm Chev (my SH is 73-74), I did not 
particularly want a 700c bike with massive rubber and fenders for a city 
bike application. Plus, in that size, there is no way I would be mounting 
with any other motion than the leg swing from the back. (And as it is, I 
can barely maneuver my 52 Clem up the three flights of narrow stairs to my 
apartment!) Though I suspect I may have given up a tad in spriteliness of 
ride quality, I have other bicycles that have plenty of pep, and the 
Clementine over these past months has created an appreciation in me for 
other ride qualities. And, as I had figured it might, it has subtly 
transformed what I might call my riding demeanor. I have no doubt your 
Cheviot will do the same for you!



On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 6:43:51 PM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>
> My guess is that a Clem Smith Jr. would serve my intended purpose just as 
> well as a Cheviot.  However, after riding both (a much more extended ride 
> on the Clem) I had a much bigger smile after riding the Chev - it simply 
> seemed to have a bit more life to it than the Clem. 
>
> I have an olive colored saddlesack and a green front bag that I would use 
> with this bike - is orange or grey likely to be my best bet with those 
> colors?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I am very fortunate to have gotten a discount orange Cheviot frame that I
had built up recently.  It replaced my Surly Pacer (my wife will definitely
not tolerate any more bikes!, but am very fortunate that she tolerated a
replacement bike!).  The bike is setup with an Albastache bar, thin
gripster pedals, and a kickstand.  Having a non-drop bar, non-clipless
pedals and kickstand are all firsts since I was a kid.

I love the bike, and it has my interpretation of trademark Riv handling in
that it is extremely responsive to shifts in weight changes.  Also common
to all Rivs, they bring a smile to my face when I go out for a ride.  This
is in all seriousness.  I didn't ride the Pacer much anymore because it was
too this or too that compared to my Rivs.  Now I am so lucky have another
Riv to bring on that smile.

Just in case you are wondering about the drop bar to Albastache adjustment,
the brakes are lined up in the front of the bars at the curves, and if the
wind is strong, I can lean down and rest my arms along the bars and tuck
down very comfortably.  However, my position is very comfortable with
multiple bar positions and enjoy the added comfort of the upright bar end
position.

I am surprised at how well the thin gripster pedals work.  When I am going
uphill, I can definitely pull back on the pedal and get climbing
contribution there because they grip the sole of the shoe really well.

Having the functionality of a kickstand is great and forgotten after all
these years of "road" riding.  I'm having a friendly discussion with Grant
whether a randonneuring bike should have a kickstand plate or not, but for
my Cheviot, a kickstand is definitely the right thing to have.

Toshi

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Deacon Patrick]

To exclude smiles from logic is illogical. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 7:48:22 PM UTC-6, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
>
> One thing I will add... For bikes I have bought, as well as other things, 
> the ones I regretted were the ones I decided on with only logic.  The fact 
> you came back on the Cheviot with a big smile is, well, something to truly 
> consider.  Bikes *should* make you smile!  Some do, some don't, the ones 
> that do are special.
>
> Making the same kinds of decision here in Denver...
>
> Bob
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bob Lovejoy]

I will just add my vote, such as it is, for the Cheviot.  In fact, I have 
voted with a deposit as I have had a 60cm grey reserved for awhile now.  I 
initially thought about a black Clem (actually a Clementine) but decided 
that if I was going to get a Rivendell, I wanted something I would more 
likely like/love for years to come,  There will always be new (and great!) 
regular and interesting road bikes, in all shapes and sizes, but I have 
some of those already and something different, relaxing and timeless will 
be welcome.  The Clementine would have been great but I suspect the Cheviot 
is "the one", the one large, load carrying, relaxing, take me away to 
another place, timeless mixte.

I don't know if I am just a Mercedes/BMW guy wannabe (I hope not), but I am 
going with the grey.  The orange, I am sure, is fun and beautiful, the 
(existing) green perfect with its depth and the way it changes, the blue is 
going to be perfect for some... but grey seems right for me, I in my 
advancing years, and though I agree with the visibility issue, there are 
lots of ways to get that job done and I like the bike to blend in once 
stopped, attracting as little attention as possible.

One thing I will add... For bikes I have bought, as well as other things, 
the ones I regretted were the ones I decided on with only logic.  The fact 
you came back on the Cheviot with a big smile is, well, something to truly 
consider.  Bikes *should* make you smile!  Some do, some don't, the ones 
that do are special.

Making the same kinds of decision here in Denver...

Bob


>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Surlyprof]

Sean,

That green was one of my favorite Riv colors (except maybe the recent matte 
green Roscoe Bubbe).  Was surprised when they didn't do it again.  I always 
thought I'd paint my Hillborne that color if I ever bother to repaint it. 
 I also thought the grey looks pretty great in the blug shots.  Would 
probably look awesome with tan bags.  If it helps, here is what the older, 
more metallic orange looks like with olive bags. 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/129545862@N03/16372487184/in/dateposted-public/ 
 I love my Hillborne but also thought the Cheviut was pretty amazing when I 
tried one at Riv.  It was such a smooth, graceful ride.  I hope they have 
them back if I ever find it difficult to throw a leg over the saddle in the 
future.

Good luck with your decision.  Sounds like you're deciding between shades 
of great.
John 



On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 3:43:51 PM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>
> This thread has been so informative.  Thank you all for your comments and 
> stories.  Having lots of data points certainly is helpful in determining 
> what course of action to take - to buy or not to buy a Cheviot.
>
> I've read through the comments a few times and the consensus seems to be 
> that those who have purchased a Cheviot (or a Betty or any other Riv 
> mixtie).  The biggest drawback seems to be the lack of a second (or third) 
> bottle mount.  I certainly see that as a concern if the bike would be used 
> regularly on longer rides.  After all, as Garth and others have noted, it 
> kind of sucks to spend $1,500 + on a frame only to add a cheesy bottle 
> holder if you want to carry two bottles.  However, given my intended usage, 
> as a bike that would mainly be ridden around town (farmers market, grocery 
> store, post office, etc) the number of bottles is not really a concern.  I 
> likely would also use this bike to ride on a few local bike paths (mostly 
> paved) where the lack of multiple bottle mounts would not be a huge concern.
>
> My guess is that a Clem Smith Jr. would serve my intended purpose just as 
> well as a Cheviot.  However, after riding both (a much more extended ride 
> on the Clem) I had a much bigger smile after riding the Chev - it simply 
> seemed to have a bit more life to it than the Clem.  I don't know if this 
> was due to the tubing used on the bikes, the angles, the wheels or some 
> other factor - the simple reality was that I had more fun riding the 
> Cheviot than the Clem.
>
> The more I ponder the Chev the less the "girl bike" thing seems like an 
> issue.  One other silly question that is kind of related to the girl bike 
> thing is the color choice.  I rode a green Cheviot at Rivendell.  I really 
> liked the color.  The new frames have cream headtubes, which the older 
> frames do not.  One more reason to go for a new frame.  Initially I thought 
> that the orange was the best color.  However, the more I think about it the 
> more attracted I am to the grey.  Perhaps this color will make the Chev a 
> bit more manly, as it will look more like a mountain bike.  The description 
> on the website says that the grey is "old Clem grey."  Anyone with a bike 
> in that color care to comment on how they like the color?  Pictures 
> perhaps?  Finally, I have an olive colored saddlesack and a green front bag 
> that I would use with this bike - is orange or grey likely to be my best 
> bet with those colors?
>
> Thanks again for your comments.
>
> Sean
> EA, NY
>
> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:22 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Hi Caroline. Welcome. Would be great to see a pic of your City Betty with 
>> the racy Albatross bars! Regarding the comparison of the Clementine to the 
>> Dutch city bikes, while they share the drooped top tube feature, the Dutch 
>> bikes have a significantly different geometry, practically heading into 
>> recumbent territory. As for the Clementine and loads, I carry 15-40 pounds, 
>> distributed between rear panniers and front basket, with regularity on my 
>> 52cm Clementine. It carries these burdens without complaint, and no flex 
>> issues for me at 170ish, though I may be a few pounds lighter this week due 
>> to water loss! (The Dutch bike pictured above is from Lovely Bicycle 
>> .) 
>> This message is a public service of the Knights of Clementine Society, 
>> dedicated to defending the honor of Clementines everywhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 1:54:53 AM UTC-4, Caroline Golum wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> As for the Clementine - just from experience working in different shops, 
>>> I find that traditional Dutch step-through style to be a little lacking for 
>>> longer rides and heavier loads, but if that's what you're trying to do it 
>>> seems perfect!
>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Joe Bernard]

I think green bags would look better on the orange bike. But if I ever get a 
Cheviot, I'll be looking for the green no-cream-headtube bike and put tan bags 
on it. That would be gorgeous!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Sean McAtee]

This thread has been so informative.  Thank you all for your comments and
stories.  Having lots of data points certainly is helpful in determining
what course of action to take - to buy or not to buy a Cheviot.

I've read through the comments a few times and the consensus seems to be
that those who have purchased a Cheviot (or a Betty or any other Riv
mixtie).  The biggest drawback seems to be the lack of a second (or third)
bottle mount.  I certainly see that as a concern if the bike would be used
regularly on longer rides.  After all, as Garth and others have noted, it
kind of sucks to spend $1,500 + on a frame only to add a cheesy bottle
holder if you want to carry two bottles.  However, given my intended usage,
as a bike that would mainly be ridden around town (farmers market, grocery
store, post office, etc) the number of bottles is not really a concern.  I
likely would also use this bike to ride on a few local bike paths (mostly
paved) where the lack of multiple bottle mounts would not be a huge concern.

My guess is that a Clem Smith Jr. would serve my intended purpose just as
well as a Cheviot.  However, after riding both (a much more extended ride
on the Clem) I had a much bigger smile after riding the Chev - it simply
seemed to have a bit more life to it than the Clem.  I don't know if this
was due to the tubing used on the bikes, the angles, the wheels or some
other factor - the simple reality was that I had more fun riding the
Cheviot than the Clem.

The more I ponder the Chev the less the "girl bike" thing seems like an
issue.  One other silly question that is kind of related to the girl bike
thing is the color choice.  I rode a green Cheviot at Rivendell.  I really
liked the color.  The new frames have cream headtubes, which the older
frames do not.  One more reason to go for a new frame.  Initially I thought
that the orange was the best color.  However, the more I think about it the
more attracted I am to the grey.  Perhaps this color will make the Chev a
bit more manly, as it will look more like a mountain bike.  The description
on the website says that the grey is "old Clem grey."  Anyone with a bike
in that color care to comment on how they like the color?  Pictures
perhaps?  Finally, I have an olive colored saddlesack and a green front bag
that I would use with this bike - is orange or grey likely to be my best
bet with those colors?

Thanks again for your comments.

Sean
EA, NY

On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 7:22 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> 
>
> Hi Caroline. Welcome. Would be great to see a pic of your City Betty with
> the racy Albatross bars! Regarding the comparison of the Clementine to the
> Dutch city bikes, while they share the drooped top tube feature, the Dutch
> bikes have a significantly different geometry, practically heading into
> recumbent territory. As for the Clementine and loads, I carry 15-40 pounds,
> distributed between rear panniers and front basket, with regularity on my
> 52cm Clementine. It carries these burdens without complaint, and no flex
> issues for me at 170ish, though I may be a few pounds lighter this week due
> to water loss! (The Dutch bike pictured above is from Lovely Bicycle
> .)
> This message is a public service of the Knights of Clementine Society,
> dedicated to defending the honor of Clementines everywhere.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 1:54:53 AM UTC-4, Caroline Golum wrote:
>
>
>> As for the Clementine - just from experience working in different shops,
>> I find that traditional Dutch step-through style to be a little lacking for
>> longer rides and heavier loads, but if that's what you're trying to do it
>> seems perfect!
>>
>>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Caroline. Welcome. Would be great to see a pic of your City Betty with 
the racy Albatross bars! Regarding the comparison of the Clementine to the 
Dutch city bikes, while they share the drooped top tube feature, the Dutch 
bikes have a significantly different geometry, practically heading into 
recumbent territory. As for the Clementine and loads, I carry 15-40 pounds, 
distributed between rear panniers and front basket, with regularity on my 
52cm Clementine. It carries these burdens without complaint, and no flex 
issues for me at 170ish, though I may be a few pounds lighter this week due 
to water loss! (The Dutch bike pictured above is from Lovely Bicycle 
.) This 
message is a public service of the Knights of Clementine Society, dedicated 
to defending the honor of Clementines everywhere.



On Saturday, August 13, 2016 at 1:54:53 AM UTC-4, Caroline Golum wrote:
 

> As for the Clementine - just from experience working in different shops, I 
> find that traditional Dutch step-through style to be a little lacking for 
> longer rides and heavier loads, but if that's what you're trying to do it 
> seems perfect!
>
>  
 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Caroline Golum]

Hey y'all!

Long time lurker, first time responder!

If I may put my two cents in: I have the Betty Foy - precursor to the Chev 
- and couldn't be happier with it. My only bike for seven years now, I ride 
it on day tours and almost every day in New York City (potholes, traffic, 
other stupid drivers/cyclists, it's no small feat!). If you're a man and 
worried about getting weird looks for riding a mixte, don't be! If light 
cargo in a rear basket or on a rear rack is part of your commute, having a 
step-through frame is better. Keeps you from having to swing a leg over the 
back, and you don't have to worry about hitting your family jewels on the 
top tube if you stop short. 

Some other things to note: 650B is no issue for me in terms of tubes, most 
26" tubes will fit (I frequently use 26x1.5 presta and it's fine). If your 
LBS doesn't sell 650B tires, you can always order them online or ask them 
to order them for you. I've been riding with the Panaracer Nifty Swifty, 
and have probably gone through two sets of tires/year because of the kevlar 
bead. 

Handlebar-wise, I've never been a big fan of the Riv tendency to go super 
upright, so I installed Nitto Albatross bars upside down for a little extra 
downward sweep. They take bar-end shifters too, which is great on a Chev 
because there are no downtube bosses. 

Full disclosure: haven't ridden the Sam, but I did ride a customer's 
Atlantis when I was shopping around before I bought the Betty frame. The 
Atlantis was like riding on a cloud of fresh-whipped country butter, I 
would imagine the Sam is similar. As for the Clementine - just from 
experience working in different shops, I find that traditional Dutch 
step-through style to be a little lacking for longer rides and heavier 
loads, but if that's what you're trying to do it seems perfect!

Anyway, that's my endorsement - BETTY FOR LIFE! Grab a Chev if you can - 
that olive colorway is especially fetching with leather accessories, IMHO. 

That's all! Ride safe and have a great weekend!



On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 4:10:54 PM UTC-4, Irving wrote:
>
> It's a Nitto Longboy Longstay that is apparently discontinued now.
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:36:35 PM UTC-7, Jon in central Colorado 
> wrote:
>>
>> Irving,
>> Nice looking Cheviot.
>> I ordered a blue one. Will also have Brooks spring saddle and Albatross.
>> What rack do you have on the back?
>> Jon
>> ( serialcycler) on Instagram
>>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:08:39 PM UTC-6, Irving wrote:
>>
>>> Can I add to the list of glowing reviews about the Cheviot?
>>>
>>> I've had my Cheviot since last December and have taken it on a 120k 
>>> rando ride, Bay Area headlands dirt excursions, S240's and daily commuting 
>>> trips.
>>>
>>> I don't mind dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" comments. Usually 
>>> when you have a bike with albatross bars, a Brooks spring saddle, 
>>> fenders/racks, people are already going to have snarky comments about your 
>>> ride. I will say that there are plenty of orange Public Mixte's 
>>> 
>>>  in 
>>> San Francisco, which my Cheviot has gotten mistaken for on multiple 
>>> occasions -_-
>>>
>>> Anyways, the Cheviot isn't the best for long spirited rides but it's the 
>>> bike I seem to grab before heading out the door most of these days. 
>>>
>>> Here's a picture of me riding last weekend 
>>>  on a S240 campout.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 8:16:11 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:

 I have to say, this has been an interesting thread as I venture into 
 mixte and 650B territory with the eagerly awaited  new Riv custom. Thanks 
 for all the as usual, thoughtful replies

 On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:22:40 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
> Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
> and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
> changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
> made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't 
> let 
> others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
> however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which 
> in 
> my mind is a big, big, plus.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>> done on the 

[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Garth]

   If you regularly use 2 or 3 bottles it eliminates the Cheviot to me.  
Yes, you carry water in a bag, but then you're taking up finite bag space 
with something that ought to be stored on the frame. People buy bags to 
carry other things, not water. One bottle mount was expected in the 70's 
but it's 2016. Adding bottle mounts after the fact is for hackers. I've 
never heard anyone say "Hey I just bought a $1300 frame and it only has one 
bottle mount, how minimalistic cool is that !".  Ahahahahahaha.  I'm sure 
Riv has a reason for just one but regardless it will never make sense to 
make a bike these days with only 1 mount, especially since it's advertised 
as being tour capable. It ought to at least have a second under the DT. 

  That's a good ol' rant for don't skimp on the basic necessities. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jon Dukeman]

Thanks Irving.
NICE!

"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS RIDE JUNK "

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:10 PM, Irving  wrote:

> It's a Nitto Longboy Longstay that is apparently discontinued now.
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:36:35 PM UTC-7, Jon in central Colorado
> wrote:
>>
>> Irving,
>> Nice looking Cheviot.
>> I ordered a blue one. Will also have Brooks spring saddle and Albatross.
>> What rack do you have on the back?
>> Jon
>> ( serialcycler) on Instagram
>>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:08:39 PM UTC-6, Irving wrote:
>>
>>> Can I add to the list of glowing reviews about the Cheviot?
>>>
>>> I've had my Cheviot since last December and have taken it on a 120k
>>> rando ride, Bay Area headlands dirt excursions, S240's and daily commuting
>>> trips.
>>>
>>> I don't mind dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" comments. Usually
>>> when you have a bike with albatross bars, a Brooks spring saddle,
>>> fenders/racks, people are already going to have snarky comments about your
>>> ride. I will say that there are plenty of orange Public Mixte's
>>> 
>>>  in
>>> San Francisco, which my Cheviot has gotten mistaken for on multiple
>>> occasions -_-
>>>
>>> Anyways, the Cheviot isn't the best for long spirited rides but it's the
>>> bike I seem to grab before heading out the door most of these days.
>>>
>>> Here's a picture of me riding last weekend
>>>  on a S240 campout.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 8:16:11 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:

 I have to say, this has been an interesting thread as I venture into
 mixte and 650B territory with the eagerly awaited  new Riv custom. Thanks
 for all the as usual, thoughtful replies

 On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:22:40 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a
> Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers
> and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the
> changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were
> made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't 
> let
> others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will
> however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in
> my mind is a big, big, plus.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was
>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.
>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.
>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  
>> I
>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned 
>> home,
>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase 
>> one
>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>
>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for
>> me.  I nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was 
>> my
>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike
>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was
>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I 
>> found
>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I
>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed
>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob
>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob 
>> Brown
>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the
>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a
>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to 
>> ride,
>> but it gets the job done.
>>
>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.
>> Nearly all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily 
>> transfer
>> to the Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for 
>> the
>> frame.
>>
>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the
>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the 
>> bike
>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a 

[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Irving]

It's a Nitto Longboy Longstay that is apparently discontinued now.

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:36:35 PM UTC-7, Jon in central Colorado 
wrote:
>
> Irving,
> Nice looking Cheviot.
> I ordered a blue one. Will also have Brooks spring saddle and Albatross.
> What rack do you have on the back?
> Jon
> ( serialcycler) on Instagram
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:08:39 PM UTC-6, Irving wrote:
>
>> Can I add to the list of glowing reviews about the Cheviot?
>>
>> I've had my Cheviot since last December and have taken it on a 120k rando 
>> ride, Bay Area headlands dirt excursions, S240's and daily commuting trips.
>>
>> I don't mind dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" comments. Usually 
>> when you have a bike with albatross bars, a Brooks spring saddle, 
>> fenders/racks, people are already going to have snarky comments about your 
>> ride. I will say that there are plenty of orange Public Mixte's 
>> 
>>  in 
>> San Francisco, which my Cheviot has gotten mistaken for on multiple 
>> occasions -_-
>>
>> Anyways, the Cheviot isn't the best for long spirited rides but it's the 
>> bike I seem to grab before heading out the door most of these days. 
>>
>> Here's a picture of me riding last weekend 
>>  on a S240 campout.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 8:16:11 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>>
>>> I have to say, this has been an interesting thread as I venture into 
>>> mixte and 650B territory with the eagerly awaited  new Riv custom. Thanks 
>>> for all the as usual, thoughtful replies
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:22:40 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:

 My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
 Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
 and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
 changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
 made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't 
 let 
 others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
 however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in 
 my mind is a big, big, plus.

 Michael

 On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me. 
>  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  
> I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned 
> home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase 
> one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  
> I nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I 
> found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob 
> Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to 
> ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  
> Nearly all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily 
> transfer 
> to the Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for 
> the 
> frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the 
> bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit 
> of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even 

[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jon in central Colorado]

Irving,
Nice looking Cheviot.
I ordered a blue one. Will also have Brooks spring saddle and Albatross.
What rack do you have on the back?
Jon
( serialcycler) on Instagram

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 12:08:39 PM UTC-6, Irving wrote:

> Can I add to the list of glowing reviews about the Cheviot?
>
> I've had my Cheviot since last December and have taken it on a 120k rando 
> ride, Bay Area headlands dirt excursions, S240's and daily commuting trips.
>
> I don't mind dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" comments. Usually 
> when you have a bike with albatross bars, a Brooks spring saddle, 
> fenders/racks, people are already going to have snarky comments about your 
> ride. I will say that there are plenty of orange Public Mixte's 
> 
>  in 
> San Francisco, which my Cheviot has gotten mistaken for on multiple 
> occasions -_-
>
> Anyways, the Cheviot isn't the best for long spirited rides but it's the 
> bike I seem to grab before heading out the door most of these days. 
>
> Here's a picture of me riding last weekend 
>  on a S240 campout.
>
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 8:16:11 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> I have to say, this has been an interesting thread as I venture into 
>> mixte and 650B territory with the eagerly awaited  new Riv custom. Thanks 
>> for all the as usual, thoughtful replies
>>
>> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:22:40 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
>>> Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
>>> and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
>>> changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
>>> made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let 
>>> others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
>>> however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in 
>>> my mind is a big, big, plus.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:

 Hi folks,

 I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
 ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
 Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
 when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
 done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
 Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
 Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
 can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
 I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase 
 one 
 before they go away.  Here is my situation.

 About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  
 I nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
 poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
 complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
 quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
 it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
 bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
 geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
 Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
 typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
 bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
 grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to 
 ride, 
 but it gets the job done.

 In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
 all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
 Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.

 I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
 Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the 
 bike 
 long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
 thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
 the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
 did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
 simply enjoying the ride.

 I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
 two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
 type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path 

[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Irving]

Can I add to the list of glowing reviews about the Cheviot?

I've had my Cheviot since last December and have taken it on a 120k rando 
ride, Bay Area headlands dirt excursions, S240's and daily commuting trips.

I don't mind dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" comments. Usually when 
you have a bike with albatross bars, a Brooks spring saddle, fenders/racks, 
people are already going to have snarky comments about your ride. I will 
say that there are plenty of orange Public Mixte's 

 in 
San Francisco, which my Cheviot has gotten mistaken for on multiple 
occasions -_-

Anyways, the Cheviot isn't the best for long spirited rides but it's the 
bike I seem to grab before heading out the door most of these days. 

Here's a picture of me riding last weekend 
 on a S240 campout.


On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 8:16:11 AM UTC-7, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> I have to say, this has been an interesting thread as I venture into mixte 
> and 650B territory with the eagerly awaited  new Riv custom. Thanks for all 
> the as usual, thoughtful replies
>
> On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:22:40 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a 
>> Cheviot and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers 
>> and found they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the 
>> changes from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were 
>> made to give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let 
>> others opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will 
>> however need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in 
>> my mind is a big, big, plus.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>>
>>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>>> but it gets the job done.
>>>
>>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>>
>>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>>
>>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>>> bikes?
>>>
>>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>>> Cheviot? 

[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

I have to say, this has been an interesting thread as I venture into mixte 
and 650B territory with the eagerly awaited  new Riv custom. Thanks for all 
the as usual, thoughtful replies

On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 6:22:40 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a Cheviot 
> and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers and found 
> they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the changes 
> from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were made to 
> give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let others 
> opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will however 
> need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in my mind 
> is a big, big, plus.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>
>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>> but it gets the job done.
>>
>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>
>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>
>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>> bikes?
>>
>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>
>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>> East Aurora, NY
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Eric Daume]

They Cheviot has significantly longer stays than the Betty. It's more than
just a color and name change (that was the Yves Gomez model)

On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a Cheviot
> and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers and found
> they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the changes
> from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were made to
> give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let others
> opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will however
> need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in my mind
> is a big, big, plus.
>
> Michael
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was
>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.
>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.
>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I
>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home,
>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one
>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>
>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I
>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my
>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike
>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was
>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found
>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I
>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed
>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob
>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown
>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the
>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a
>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride,
>> but it gets the job done.
>>
>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly
>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the
>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>
>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the
>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike
>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike"
>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of
>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I
>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was
>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>
>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or
>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the
>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that
>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in
>> bikes?
>>
>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up
>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it
>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the
>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without
>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>
>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>> East Aurora, NY
>>
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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Michael Hechmer]

My wife has a Betty (nearly identical to a Cevy) and my daughter a Cheviot 
and the both love them.  My daughter opted for drop bars on hers and found 
they work quite well, so that is an option.  I suspect that the changes 
from Betty to Chevy, which mostly consisted of color & name were made to 
give the bike more appeal to men.  So my suggestion to be don't let others 
opinion of your testosterone level guide your choice.  You will however 
need new wheels since your Trek is 700C & the Chevy 650B, which in my mind 
is a big, big, plus.

Michael

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Scott McLain]

If you are concerned about the girl bike thing, look at Mark in Beacon's 
pictures on flickr of his clementine.  Looks pretty tough when loaded with 
necessary accessories.  I think the swamp green Chev is pretty tough 
myself.  You could also make it look even tougher with the bullmoose 
boscos. If you are looking for an upright ride, the chev, clem, or 
appaloosa would be the way to go.  That dirty banana color on the happy 
appy is super cool!  Riv is lengthening the chainstays to better support 
the upright ride.  If you aren't sure about upright and want to be able to 
change between upright bars and drop bars, the Sam would hit the spot.

I wouldn't worry about frame flex on a riv.  If anything they are built on 
the stout side.

Bikes are like potato chips, you always want one more.

Scott




On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:45:34 AM UTC-6, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Mike Packard wrote:

*I'd also be interested to hear from those who are in a position to compare 
the Cheviot to the Clem L-Style.*That would be Grant, for one. He has 
Cheviot, which I believe is his main squeeze, and just recently got a Clem 
L.

Jeremy wrote:
*I know from experience that my wife and I can easily pedal the Clem L-type 
hard enough to cause problematic frame flex. The Cheviot should be stiffer, 
and I think that would help a lot.*

I am duly impressed! The Clem brochure mentions that, under a full load, 
the 59 Ls will experience a bit of wag when stomping out of saddle. As 
another data point to your observations, I have a 52 Clementine, and don't 
have any significant flex to report, problematic or otherwise. While my 
Clementine's design and accoutrements encourages exploring the gentle side 
of its nature and generally keeps my inner sprinter at bay, I can kick it 
pretty good, and I've honked it up some gradual grades, and also motored 
the flats on occasion, with no discernible flex. (On the Bob list, flex is 
good!)

Sean wrote:
*I rode both bikes a few weeks ago and found the Chev to feel much more 
nimble and quick than the Clem.*
I've never ridden a Cheviot, but I do have a mixte with a 46cm chainstay 
that could be described as a bit more "nimble" than the Clementine. I think 
the Chev shares a similarly long chainstay with the Clems. I don't pay much 
attention to the front end geos, are they different? I'm curious as to the 
bar setup on the two bikes you tested. My mixte has Albatross, and the 
Clementine has the Bosco Bulls, and I believe that affects my perception of 
the handling. But yeah, compared to some others, the Clementine is not Jack 
over a candlestick.

Okay, I've defended the honor of my lovely Clementine. For the OP, I would 
say the Cheviot sounds like the bike for you. What a great-looking bike, 
and from all the feedback, a great-riding bike. I certainly considered it, 
but ultimately the Clementine provided the differences between my other 
bikes that I was seeking. In my opinion, the mixte design takes the upright 
bars even more stylishly than a more level top-tubed rig such as the Sam 
you are pondering. And riding a mixte in a small Upstate town will just 
make you a better person all around! It's only a shame it doesn't come in 
rose. (As for it being more convenient in your dotage, don't count on it, 
especially if you take a 60; those top top tubes are high enough that you 
will still need that swing.)


On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 5:10:00 PM UTC-4, Mike Packard wrote:
>
> I'd also be interested to hear from those who are in a position to compare 
> the Cheviot to the Clem L-Style.
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[SeanMac]

Still more comments about how nice the Cheviot is to ride.  As far as I can 
tell, the only criticism seems to be that it only have one bottle mount.  
For around town riding, this seems not a big deal, and, as the poster 
commented, extra bottles can be stashed in bags if going on an extended 
ride.

In the preorder page on the Riv website, Grant writes "Last Call?" in the 
description of the Cheviot, explaining that the Clem has been taking sales 
away from the Cheviot.  I rode both bikes a few weeks ago and found the 
Chev to feel much more nimble and quick than the Clem.  For my anticipated 
riding, that makes the Cheviot the winner.

A few people had commented about the struggle to sell custom bikes.  What a 
bummer.  I started a separate thread about my Bob Brown - with a link to 
some photos.  Its geometry is pretty conventional (I think) so hopefully 
there is a market for it.

Sean
EA, NY

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[CoalTrain]

I have owned a Cheviot for a year and ride regularly.  I'm 6'3" and weigh 
220-230 depending on how many hot dogs I've eaten; there is not much frame flex 
and I can get this baby moving.  Great bike, maybe the greatest get around town 
bike ever created, or least for myself. 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jeremy Tavan]

I'm not in a position to compare the two, but I would very much like to TRY 
a Cheviot, because I know from experience that my wife and I can easily 
pedal the Clem L-stype hard enough to cause problematic frame flex. The 
Cheviot should be stiffer, and I think that would help a lot.

/Jeremy

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 2:10:00 PM UTC-7, Mike Packard wrote:
>
> I'd also be interested to hear from those who are in a position to compare 
> the Cheviot to the Clem L-Style.
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Joe Bernard]

Let's see the Bob Brown!

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Mike Packard]

I'd also be interested to hear from those who are in a position to compare 
the Cheviot to the Clem L-Style.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/09/2016 03:04 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
The problems with selling a used custom steel bike are two-fold. 
 First is that you have to come to grips with the fact that a custom 
frame is valuable because it is custom.  The freedom to change things 
until they are perfect for you is valuable.  That value is completely 
spent once the bike is made.  It's no longer custom for the next 
person who buys it, because the next owner can't change anything. 
 That immediately removes whatever premium you paid for it being 
custom right off the top of your re-sale value.  Taking a $3500 custom 
Rivendell as an example, the resale value of a custom Rivendell is not 
a lot higher than the resale value of a stock MUSA Rivendell, like an 
Atlantis or a Roadeo.


It's actually worse than that (based on long-standing observation of 
discussions of custom bikes for sale on a couple of bicycle forums).  A 
custom frame has unknown geometry, whereas you can always look up the 
specs on an old stock frame.  Some customers have gotten amazingly weird 
customs - things you'd hope no self respecting builder would ever 
countenance, things that can (as happened in the case of Serotta) go a 
long way towards destroying a firm's reputation.  As a result, people 
are very wary of customs made for someone else, and the price reflects 
that concern as well.


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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

as usual good point and I bet your buyer was thrilled to get such a deal

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 2:04:51 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The problems with selling a used custom steel bike are two-fold.  First is 
> that you have to come to grips with the fact that a custom frame is 
> valuable because it is custom.  The freedom to change things until they are 
> perfect for you is valuable.  That value is completely spent once the bike 
> is made.  It's no longer custom for the next person who buys it, because 
> the next owner can't change anything.  That immediately removes whatever 
> premium you paid for it being custom right off the top of your re-sale 
> value.  Taking a $3500 custom Rivendell as an example, the resale value of 
> a custom Rivendell is not a lot higher than the resale value of a stock 
> MUSA Rivendell, like an Atlantis or a Roadeo.  The second problem is your 
> buyer needs to already be a fan of your builder to be motivated to buy your 
> bike.  Finding a bunch of Bob Brown fans looking for a deal might be hard.  
>
> Personally I sold a Davidson Signature frameset and experienced these 
> issues first hand.  It was a ~$2200 frameset in 1992.  I sold it in 2010, 
> eventually resorting to eBay, for $400.  My buyer was understandably 
> thrilled at the deal he got.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:58:02 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
>> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
>> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
>> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
>> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
>> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
>> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>>
>> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
>> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
>> the trigger.
>>
>> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
>> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
>> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
>> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
>> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
>> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>>
>> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
>> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Sean
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Jon in central Colorado]

These posts make me happy I ordered a Cheviot.
I have never ridden one.
I tried to talk my wife into a 55cm so she could ride along with me on my 
Sam. She said no. So I ordered a 60cm for myself. Snooze she loses.
I'm excited to see the difference between the Sam and Cheviot. The Cheviot 
probably not as responsive in the corners but expect it to be as 
comfortable or more than the Sam.
They will be set up almost identically. A spring saddle for the Cheviot.
Chomping at the bit!


>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Bill Lindsay]

The problems with selling a used custom steel bike are two-fold.  First is 
that you have to come to grips with the fact that a custom frame is 
valuable because it is custom.  The freedom to change things until they are 
perfect for you is valuable.  That value is completely spent once the bike 
is made.  It's no longer custom for the next person who buys it, because 
the next owner can't change anything.  That immediately removes whatever 
premium you paid for it being custom right off the top of your re-sale 
value.  Taking a $3500 custom Rivendell as an example, the resale value of 
a custom Rivendell is not a lot higher than the resale value of a stock 
MUSA Rivendell, like an Atlantis or a Roadeo.  The second problem is your 
buyer needs to already be a fan of your builder to be motivated to buy your 
bike.  Finding a bunch of Bob Brown fans looking for a deal might be hard.  

Personally I sold a Davidson Signature frameset and experienced these 
issues first hand.  It was a ~$2200 frameset in 1992.  I sold it in 2010, 
eventually resorting to eBay, for $400.  My buyer was understandably 
thrilled at the deal he got.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:58:02 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>
> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
> the trigger.
>
> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>
> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>
> Thanks again,
> Sean
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

Sorryas you can see by the link, classic lugged steel bikes available

 http://www.bobbrowncycles.com/  

>From Minnesota

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:07:56 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>>
>> If I recall Bob Brown makes some very nice bikes ...could try posting the 
>> bike here or internet-bob, I would think
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>>>
>>> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
>>> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
>>> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
>>> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
>>> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
>>> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
>>> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>>>
>>> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
>>> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
>>> the trigger.
>>>
>>> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can 
>>> justify purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I 
>>> currently own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  
>>> Where else might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a 
>>> standard depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me 
>>> determine my price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>>>
>>> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
>>> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Sean
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

 I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
 bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
 downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides 
 anything 
 like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
 one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
 another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
 blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If 
 you 
 dig that Chev, buy it!
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 12:07:56 PM UTC-5, Ryan Fleming wrote:
>
> If I recall Bob Brown makes some very nice bikes ...could try posting the 
> bike here or internet-bob, I would think
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
>> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
>> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
>> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
>> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
>> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
>> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>>
>> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
>> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
>> the trigger.
>>
>> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
>> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
>> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
>> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
>> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
>> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>>
>> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
>> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Sean
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[drew]

I just recently gave up looking for a used 50cm cheviot for my wife. She has a 
Clem and it would be stupid financially anyway. They just don't pop up for sale 
nearly as often as other riv models. I think I've seen 1 chev in the last year, 
and he was selling it for about the same price as a new one. That has to be 
good.

I have a Sam. I love it, but like phillip I was not satisfied with upright bars 
on it. It felt too squished. I know others here have and love uprights on their 
sams. Mine has drops and is definitely more road like. 

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Ryan Fleming]

If I recall Bob Brown makes some very nice bikes ...could try posting the 
bike here or internet-bob, I would think

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 10:58:02 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I 
> really do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the 
> Cheviot when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being 
> surprised by how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a 
> "Mark's rack" that would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it 
> would be an ideal around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but 
> really like the orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  
>
> I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
> like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
> the trigger.
>
> Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
> purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
> own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
> might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
> depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
> price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?
>
> Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
> territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.
>
> Thanks again,
> Sean
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
>> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
>> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
>> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
>> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
>> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
>> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
>> dig that Chev, buy it!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[LeahFoy]

The last run of Cheviots? Say it ain't so!

I can't speak to the Cheviot, but I have the Chev's forerunner, the Betty Foy 
and it's a lovely bike. It's also my only bike, and it will remain so because 
it is One Bike to Rule Them All. I am putting Bosco Bullmoose bars on it, and 
then I promise it cannot be improved upon. That sloping top tube is just so 
darn practical, and it adds a sexy quality to the bike - it looks like it's 
ready to take flight, if you ask me. It's smooth and stable and does every 
single thing I need it to do. It takes me on a very challenging school commute 
with my sons, and with racks and baskets and a saddlesack, it hauls all the 
necessary items, including the family dog, who rides in the Wald basket. I was 
initially set to get a Sam, because it seemed like bike folks didn't consider 
the mixte a serious bike, but when I called RBW, Keven listened to what I 
wanted in a bike and said, "Why not a Betty Foy? That's what I ride." And so I 
met the perfect bike. 

If these are the last run of Cheviots (really? It kills me to hear it!) I'd 
snag one.

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Kellie]

Tires= I LOVE the Rock and Roads. Use both on and off road. They wear 
great. I believe they're the maximum width the Cheviot can take.




On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:58:11 AM UTC-7, Derek Lawrence wrote:
>
> My wife has a Cheviot and I have a Sam. Both are setup almost identically 
> and ride wonderfully. The Chev is a bit plusher ride and extremely 
> comfortable. If I were to choose one for city and errand riding, it would 
> be the Cheviot. The longer chain stays make large panniers for groceries 
> easy, and having the low top tube more manageable with a load. Add a double 
> kickstand and you're set.
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:45:34 AM UTC-6, SeanMac wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
>> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
>> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
>> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
>> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
>> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
>> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
>> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
>> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
>> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>>
>> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
>> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
>> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
>> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
>> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
>> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
>> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
>> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
>> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
>> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
>> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
>> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
>> but it gets the job done.
>>
>> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
>> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
>> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>>
>> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
>> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
>> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
>> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
>> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
>> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
>> simply enjoying the ride.
>>
>> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
>> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
>> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
>> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
>> bikes?
>>
>> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
>> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
>> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
>> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
>> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>>
>> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sean
>> East Aurora, NY
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Derek Lawrence]

My wife has a Cheviot and I have a Sam. Both are setup almost identically 
and ride wonderfully. The Chev is a bit plusher ride and extremely 
comfortable. If I were to choose one for city and errand riding, it would 
be the Cheviot. The longer chain stays make large panniers for groceries 
easy, and having the low top tube more manageable with a load. Add a double 
kickstand and you're set.


On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 6:45:34 AM UTC-6, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[SeanMac]

Wow - what a bunch of enablers you folks are!  In all seriousness, I really 
do appreciate all of your comments.  I really did enjoy riding the Cheviot 
when I was in Walnut Creek a few weeks ago.  I remember being surprised by 
how quick the bike felt.  I have a Tubus rear rack and a "Mark's rack" that 
would be added to the Chev.  With this setup I think it would be an ideal 
around town / bike path bike.  I rode a green bike, but really like the 
orange color - with the cream headtube being a nice bonus.  

I still regret not buying a Rambouillet ten years ago.  Since this looks 
like the last run of Cheviots, it seems like I would be a fool to not pull 
the trigger.

Any advice on selling a go-fastish bike?  The only way that I can justify 
purchasing the Chev is by selling off the Bob Brown bike that I currently 
own.  I assume that there would be little market on this list.  Where else 
might I turn?  Suggestions on setting a price?  Is there a standard 
depreciation rate for bikes that I can/ should use to help me determine my 
price?  What are the benefits / pitfalls of selling on ebay?

Sorry to be so filled with questions.  However, I'm entering unknown 
territory and this group is filled with knowledgeable folks.

Thanks again,
Sean

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 11:43:40 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I still have some residual issues with mixtes being perceived as "girl 
> bikes", but I don't see it in the Cheviot. The toptube has more of a 
> downslope-like-a-mountain-bike look than a true mixte. If it rides anything 
> like my Appaloosa - which I think it's comparable to - then you should get 
> one. I rode my Joe at RBW once, then went back a few days later for 
> another, then went back a couple days after that to buy it. I loved the 
> blue with green-wrapped Noodles, and knew that color was going away. If you 
> dig that Chev, buy it!

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Philip Kim]

Hey Sean,

I've owned both the Chev & Sam, before switching to the Hunq which fit more 
of my fat tire needs, and the ability to shoulder my bike up and down my 
apartment stairs.

If  you don't have to carry the bike up and down any stairs and don't need 
room for more than 45mm tires, I think the Chev is an excellent choice for 
what you want. The Sam with albatross bars didn't quite work well even when 
I had it with a 110mm stem, my hands kept getting pushed to the curves, but 
the Albatross bars work so well with the Chev. I personally had a better 
time riding the Chev than the Sam.

If the Chev had cantis/v brakes, I would definitely have kept it. I still 
love my Hunq though.

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 8:45:34 AM UTC-4, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Kellie]

Hi Sean: I have a green Cheviot and gave up my Sam to get it. It's set up 
also with Rock and Roads, front (with a basket) and rear rack, and I ride 
it everywhere; off road too (not technical single-track). I have 3 other 
bikes and the Cheviot gets the call most often. A little finagling to get a 
mixte on a bike rack, not the lightest bike in the herd but the most 
comfortable.

On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 5:45:34 AM UTC-7, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Cheviot (or Sam)

[Will]

A few years ago I bought a Motobecane Super Mirage Mixte (google it) from a 
woman up the street. It was $15, had been her daily commuter for years, and 
she'd had Suntour Command shifters installed. I bought it for the shifters 
figuring I'd never find a pair for $15. At the time I was riding a nice '83 
Trek 610. It had a Shimano 600 group and was a relaxed geometry sport-road 
bike. Within a week, the much nicer 610 was on the pegs and the mixte was 
my daily ride. The mixte was simply more fun. The diagonal top tube was a 
lot easier to lock at bike racks and b/c it was an old mixte, I felt it 
lacked the sex appeal for theft: no carbon bits, no disks, etc... I rode it 
for about 5 years, then got an Atlantis. 

If the mixte could have taken 38s or more I'd still be on it, but older 
frames tend to require narrow tires... and so I moved on.

I cannot imagine going wrong with a Riv mixte. You may be moving into 
grandfather mode within a few years. It's nice to have a really stiff rear 
with long stays. Perhaps, like me, you'll be hauling a Burley trailer. In 
the meantime a good rack, a set of panniers, on that rear will make the 
bike an unbeatable do-all. Go for it. 


On Tuesday, August 9, 2016 at 7:45:34 AM UTC-5, SeanMac wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I had the opportunity to spend a few hours at Riv HQ a few Saturday's 
> ago.  I had a wonderful time - I rode four bikes (Clem, Cheviot, Sam and 
> Hubbuhubbah), and walked away with a medium saddlesack bag.  Still smile 
> when I think about the fun I had.  Most of my riding (about an hour) was 
> done on the Clem.  I enjoyed the ride, but it did not really speak to me.  
> Perhaps it was just too different from the bikes that I typically ride.  
> Strangely enough, the bike that emerged as my favorite was the Cheviot.  I 
> can't seem to get it out of my head.  In fact, ever since I returned home, 
> I have been trying to figure out if I loved the Chev enough to purchase one 
> before they go away.  Here is my situation.
>
> About ten years ago I had a custom-built Bob Brown Cycle made for me.  I 
> nearly bought a Rambouillet, but chose Bob Brown instead.  It was my 
> poor-man's red convertible that I got for my 40th birthday.  That bike 
> complimented my circa 1990 Trek 520 quite well.  My Bob Brown was 
> quick-ish, sporty and fun to ride.  However, as the years went by, I found 
> it to be increasingly uncomfortable for longer ride.  Two years ago I 
> bought a Black Mountain Road bike.  This bike has a bit more relaxed 
> geometry.  I really love this bike - it is much more comfortable than Bob 
> Brown, and has become the bike that I grab most often.  In fact, Bob Brown 
> typically sees the road only once or twice a year - it is typically the 
> bike that I use on my indoor trainer.  My Trek 520 has been turned into a 
> grocery-getter.  However, it does not bring me a great deal of joy to ride, 
> but it gets the job done.
>
> In my mind, I see the Cheviot as a replacement for my Trek 520.  Nearly 
> all of the components that I have on the Trek would easily transfer to the 
> Chev - meaning that my initial output of cash would be only for the frame.
>
> I've read through everything that I can find on the list about the 
> Cheviot.  I would love to hear impressions from those who have had the bike 
> long term.  Likes?  Dislikes?  Dealing with the "guy on a girl's bike" 
> thing is perhaps an issue.  However, as I approach 50 I see the benefit of 
> the lower top tube.  Besides, when I rode the Cheviot in Walnut Creek, I 
> did not even think about the fact that I was riding a mixte, as I was 
> simply enjoying the ride.
>
> I live in a small town in western New York - with short rides (mile or 
> two) to the co-op grocery store, library, post office, etc.  This is the 
> type of riding, along with occasional paved and/or gravel path riding) that 
> I see myself doing with a Cheviot.  What do you think -- good choice in 
> bikes?
>
> What about a Sam?  I rode a Sam the other day as well, but it was set up 
> with Noodle bars, and rode much more like a typical road bike.  If I set it 
> up with Albatross bars, bags, etc how would it likely compare with the 
> Cheviot?  Would it ride the same and put the same smile on my face without 
> causing me and/or those seeing me question my manliness?
>
> Any insight on these issues would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Sean
> East Aurora, NY
>

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