[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Doug H.]

Nice looking bike Eric. The Clem can handle riders of all shapes and sizes 
and looks like the perfect Bicycle SUV. Albeit a safe and ecologically 
friendly one. :)
Doug
Athens, GA

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 7:35:59 PM UTC-4 EricP wrote:

> Tried posting two photos. They were too big. Apologies to folks where 
> these take up the whole screen.
>
> Here's the bike from the front. Muted fall colors in the Twin Cities this 
> week.
>
> [image: Front Clem crop resized.jpg]
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 7:07:28 AM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Eric,
>> Could you post a photo of your Clem L? I'm in the Lotto and like to see 
>> everyone's Clem builds.
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Doug H.]

Eric,
Could you post a photo of your Clem L? I'm in the Lotto and like to see 
everyone's Clem builds.
Doug

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 8:05:18 AM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> In today's bicycle world that would be a gravel bike. I remember seeing 
> those bikes (not the pink one) at our local BMX tracks in late 70s early 
> 80s. I think we called them cruisers but have no idea why. Ha.
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>
> On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 7:11:06 AM UTC-4 EricP wrote:
>
>> Man, those Team Stumpies were definitely cool. Never did ride one. Back 
>> when they came out, I was buying a year out of date 1984 Stumpjumper frame 
>> with the longer stays and built it up. As a college kid with not much money 
>> that's the only way I could do it. Pretty sure it came with the bottom 
>> bracket and headset. Then when that got stolen out of my garage ended up 
>> replacing it with a 1983 Stumpjumper frame. Sadly also stolen from a locked 
>> garage. 
>>
>> Either way, owning those bikes made it much easier for me in my dotage to 
>> go for a Clem low. In fact, my only regret is not getting one when they 
>> first came out. Well, and the fact that it will not fit on a regular bike 
>> rack. Have to buy one of the wheel tray versions. Not looking forward to it 
>> as don't really have the garage space. Oh well.
>>
>> Eric Platt
>> St. Paul, MN
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 8:40:09 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Oh my god!!!  That Stumpy is my last remaining  personal holy grail 
>>> dream bike that I could never find and probably don't need.  PLEASE keep me 
>>> in mind if you ever want to get rid of it.  (Since it sounds like your kids 
>>> dont want it.)  
>>>
>>> Regarding the stigma of step-through bikes:  I suspect every male 
>>> wrestles with it.  But I also believe that every enlightened person who 
>>> rides long enough and is able to put function and logic and wisdom above  
>>> fashion and stereotype and insecurity will eventually "get it. " I do think 
>>> that the younger someone is, the quicker they'll  be able to get there. 
>>> Even if it's not immediate.  Not just because they're less fixated on 
>>> gender roles than older generations, but because bike fashion is grooming 
>>> them to accept low top tubes.  Think about Jones Spaceframes or pretty much 
>>> any modern, carbon, full-suspension rig.  Those are macho bikes by anyone's 
>>> standards. Wolbis Slugstone was a badass too.
>>>
>>> Coincidentally and case in point, my son has one of the newest 
>>> Stumpjumpers, an S-works, carbon, enduro bike. It's interesting.  The way 
>>> specialized now sizes bikes like his is to make the standover and stack 
>>> heights pretty much identical, regardless of frame size.  So the top tube 
>>> is LOW. The only thing that changes is the effective top tube length, so 
>>> any rider can opt for any frame size depending on ride characteristic 
>>> preference, and then adjust to fit with stem and seatpost, etc.
>>>
>>> But I derailed this thread, didn't  I
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 2:56:49 PM UTC-6 El Sapo wrote:
>>>
 You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a 
 bike more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll 
 ride a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a 
 little girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked 
 out by it and would never ride it.   

 Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 
 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:08:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on 
> another 
> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>
> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>
> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure 
>> how I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell 
>> the 
>> limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the 
>> cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship 
>> by 
>> cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some 
>> cases. 
>> I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the 
>> increase. 
>> Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
>> factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
>> markets.
>>
>> Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Doug H.]

In today's bicycle world that would be a gravel bike. I remember seeing 
those bikes (not the pink one) at our local BMX tracks in late 70s early 
80s. I think we called them cruisers but have no idea why. Ha.
Doug
Athens, GA

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 7:11:06 AM UTC-4 EricP wrote:

> Man, those Team Stumpies were definitely cool. Never did ride one. Back 
> when they came out, I was buying a year out of date 1984 Stumpjumper frame 
> with the longer stays and built it up. As a college kid with not much money 
> that's the only way I could do it. Pretty sure it came with the bottom 
> bracket and headset. Then when that got stolen out of my garage ended up 
> replacing it with a 1983 Stumpjumper frame. Sadly also stolen from a locked 
> garage. 
>
> Either way, owning those bikes made it much easier for me in my dotage to 
> go for a Clem low. In fact, my only regret is not getting one when they 
> first came out. Well, and the fact that it will not fit on a regular bike 
> rack. Have to buy one of the wheel tray versions. Not looking forward to it 
> as don't really have the garage space. Oh well.
>
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 8:40:09 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Oh my god!!!  That Stumpy is my last remaining  personal holy grail dream 
>> bike that I could never find and probably don't need.  PLEASE keep me in 
>> mind if you ever want to get rid of it.  (Since it sounds like your kids 
>> dont want it.)  
>>
>> Regarding the stigma of step-through bikes:  I suspect every male 
>> wrestles with it.  But I also believe that every enlightened person who 
>> rides long enough and is able to put function and logic and wisdom above  
>> fashion and stereotype and insecurity will eventually "get it. " I do think 
>> that the younger someone is, the quicker they'll  be able to get there. 
>> Even if it's not immediate.  Not just because they're less fixated on 
>> gender roles than older generations, but because bike fashion is grooming 
>> them to accept low top tubes.  Think about Jones Spaceframes or pretty much 
>> any modern, carbon, full-suspension rig.  Those are macho bikes by anyone's 
>> standards. Wolbis Slugstone was a badass too.
>>
>> Coincidentally and case in point, my son has one of the newest 
>> Stumpjumpers, an S-works, carbon, enduro bike. It's interesting.  The way 
>> specialized now sizes bikes like his is to make the standover and stack 
>> heights pretty much identical, regardless of frame size.  So the top tube 
>> is LOW. The only thing that changes is the effective top tube length, so 
>> any rider can opt for any frame size depending on ride characteristic 
>> preference, and then adjust to fit with stem and seatpost, etc.
>>
>> But I derailed this thread, didn't  I
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 2:56:49 PM UTC-6 El Sapo wrote:
>>
>>> You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a 
>>> bike more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll 
>>> ride a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a 
>>> little girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked 
>>> out by it and would never ride it.   
>>>
>>> Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:08:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
 carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
 consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on 
 another 
 tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
 sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
 #toptubeswhoneedsem

 I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 

 Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard

 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure 
> how I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the 
> limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the 
> cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship 
> by 
> cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some 
> cases. 
> I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the 
> increase. 
> Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
> factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
> markets.
>
> Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about 
> buying a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with 
> the 
> low top tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L 
> and 
> they just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the 
> frame instead 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[EricP]

Man, those Team Stumpies were definitely cool. Never did ride one. Back 
when they came out, I was buying a year out of date 1984 Stumpjumper frame 
with the longer stays and built it up. As a college kid with not much money 
that's the only way I could do it. Pretty sure it came with the bottom 
bracket and headset. Then when that got stolen out of my garage ended up 
replacing it with a 1983 Stumpjumper frame. Sadly also stolen from a locked 
garage. 

Either way, owning those bikes made it much easier for me in my dotage to 
go for a Clem low. In fact, my only regret is not getting one when they 
first came out. Well, and the fact that it will not fit on a regular bike 
rack. Have to buy one of the wheel tray versions. Not looking forward to it 
as don't really have the garage space. Oh well.

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 8:40:09 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:

> Oh my god!!!  That Stumpy is my last remaining  personal holy grail dream 
> bike that I could never find and probably don't need.  PLEASE keep me in 
> mind if you ever want to get rid of it.  (Since it sounds like your kids 
> dont want it.)  
>
> Regarding the stigma of step-through bikes:  I suspect every male wrestles 
> with it.  But I also believe that every enlightened person who rides long 
> enough and is able to put function and logic and wisdom above  fashion and 
> stereotype and insecurity will eventually "get it. " I do think that the 
> younger someone is, the quicker they'll  be able to get there. Even if it's 
> not immediate.  Not just because they're less fixated on gender roles than 
> older generations, but because bike fashion is grooming them to accept low 
> top tubes.  Think about Jones Spaceframes or pretty much any modern, 
> carbon, full-suspension rig.  Those are macho bikes by anyone's standards. 
> Wolbis Slugstone was a badass too.
>
> Coincidentally and case in point, my son has one of the newest 
> Stumpjumpers, an S-works, carbon, enduro bike. It's interesting.  The way 
> specialized now sizes bikes like his is to make the standover and stack 
> heights pretty much identical, regardless of frame size.  So the top tube 
> is LOW. The only thing that changes is the effective top tube length, so 
> any rider can opt for any frame size depending on ride characteristic 
> preference, and then adjust to fit with stem and seatpost, etc.
>
> But I derailed this thread, didn't  I
>
> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 2:56:49 PM UTC-6 El Sapo wrote:
>
>> You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a 
>> bike more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll 
>> ride a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a 
>> little girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked 
>> out by it and would never ride it.   
>>
>> Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:08:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
>>> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
>>> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
>>> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
>>> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
>>> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>>>
>>> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>>>
>>> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how 
 I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the 
 limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the 
 cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship 
 by 
 cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. 
 I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the 
 increase. 
 Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
 factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
 markets.

 Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about 
 buying a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the 
 low top tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and 
 they just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the 
 frame instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other 
 random thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the 
 Clem L?
 Doug

 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:

> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[iamkeith]

Oh my god!!!  That Stumpy is my last remaining  personal holy grail dream 
bike that I could never find and probably don't need.  PLEASE keep me in 
mind if you ever want to get rid of it.  (Since it sounds like your kids 
dont want it.)  

Regarding the stigma of step-through bikes:  I suspect every male wrestles 
with it.  But I also believe that every enlightened person who rides long 
enough and is able to put function and logic and wisdom above  fashion and 
stereotype and insecurity will eventually "get it. " I do think that the 
younger someone is, the quicker they'll  be able to get there. Even if it's 
not immediate.  Not just because they're less fixated on gender roles than 
older generations, but because bike fashion is grooming them to accept low 
top tubes.  Think about Jones Spaceframes or pretty much any modern, 
carbon, full-suspension rig.  Those are macho bikes by anyone's standards. 
Wolbis Slugstone was a badass too.

Coincidentally and case in point, my son has one of the newest 
Stumpjumpers, an S-works, carbon, enduro bike. It's interesting.  The way 
specialized now sizes bikes like his is to make the standover and stack 
heights pretty much identical, regardless of frame size.  So the top tube 
is LOW. The only thing that changes is the effective top tube length, so 
any rider can opt for any frame size depending on ride characteristic 
preference, and then adjust to fit with stem and seatpost, etc.

But I derailed this thread, didn't  I

On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 2:56:49 PM UTC-6 El Sapo wrote:

> You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a 
> bike more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll 
> ride a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a 
> little girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked 
> out by it and would never ride it.   
>
> Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:08:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
>> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
>> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
>> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
>> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
>> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>>
>> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>>
>> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how 
>>> I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the 
>>> limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the 
>>> cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship by 
>>> cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. 
>>> I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the increase. 
>>> Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
>>> factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
>>> markets.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about 
>>> buying a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the 
>>> low top tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and 
>>> they just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the 
>>> frame instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other 
>>> random thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the 
>>> Clem L?
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>>>
 Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
 clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
 Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it 
 until late Spring. 

 - Max " pickles" in A2

 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:

> >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
> sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
> tickets"?.. 
>
> Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
> October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)
>
> Get 'em here: 
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871
>
> Thanks! 
>
> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>
>> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>>
>>> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
>>> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Fantastic Stumpy! Plenty of fans of pink ones - especially the team. Yours 
looks mint/original. Here's more:

1985 Stumpjumper Review 


A Legacy of Pink 


Marty
On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 5:06:54 PM UTC-4 El Sapo wrote:

> [image: Pink Stumpjumper Team.JPG]
>
> On Tuesday, October 19, 2021 at 1:56:49 PM UTC-7 El Sapo wrote:
>
>> You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a 
>> bike more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll 
>> ride a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a 
>> little girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked 
>> out by it and would never ride it.   
>>
>> Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:08:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
>>> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
>>> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
>>> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
>>> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
>>> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>>>
>>> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>>>
>>> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how 
 I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the 
 limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the 
 cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship 
 by 
 cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. 
 I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the 
 increase. 
 Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
 factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
 markets.

 Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about 
 buying a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the 
 low top tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and 
 they just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the 
 frame instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other 
 random thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the 
 Clem L?
 Doug

 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:

> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle 
> it until late Spring. 
>
> - Max " pickles" in A2
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:
>
>> >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
>> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
>> sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>> tickets"?.. 
>>
>> Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
>> October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)
>>
>> Get 'em here: 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871
>>
>> Thanks! 
>>
>> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>>>
 I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
 suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
 custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  
 When 
 you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the 
 year 
 that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
>>> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different 
>>> from 
>>> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>>>
>>> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for 
>>> my spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I 
>>> checked 
>>> was apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery 
>>> tickets to 
>>> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>>> tickets"?.. 
>>>
>>> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
>>> it'll do to the demand and 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[El Sapo]

You think 30 year old men are going to select the women's version of a bike 
more often than a toad like me? Because they aren't stigmatized? I'll ride 
a pink Stumpjumper Team occasionally (called a "Barbie bike" by a little 
girl on the trail). My 30 something son and his friends are freaked out by 
it and would never ride it.   

Grant probably regrets putting men's and women's names on his bikes. 
On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:08:11 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>
> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>
> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how I 
>> feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the limited 
>> amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the cargo 
>> backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship by cargo 
>> ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. I 
>> don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the increase. 
>> Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
>> factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
>> markets.
>>
>> Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about buying 
>> a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the low top 
>> tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and they 
>> just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the frame 
>> instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other random 
>> thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the Clem L?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
>>> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
>>> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it 
>>> until late Spring. 
>>>
>>> - Max " pickles" in A2
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:
>>>
 >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
 apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
 sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
 tickets"?.. 

 Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
 October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)

 Get 'em here: 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871

 Thanks! 

 john(at)rivbike(dot)com




 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>
>> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
>> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
>> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  
>> When 
>> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the 
>> year 
>> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>
>
> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from 
> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>
> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
> spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked 
> was 
> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
> tickets"?.. 
>
> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
> it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or 
> buying 
> mine anytime soon, just curious. 
>
> - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
> wheels" in A2
>


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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Doug H.]

Nice photo J. What tires are you using?
Doug

On Saturday, October 9, 2021 at 7:45:55 PM UTC-4 J Imler wrote:

> [image: 84DB0FF5-76CF-459F-923F-B4EA25497F1A.jpeg]
> Clem L in East bay hills. Super fun trail riding.
> On Saturday, October 9, 2021 at 10:30:45 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I plan to put some knobby tires on it and take it on some single track as 
>> well as using it for errands and maybe an occasional commute. Clem Els seem 
>> to be good all-around bikes. I'd love to see some photos of people's Clem's 
>> set up for different uses, various tires, etc. Let's see your Clem L build!
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 11:08:11 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
>>> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
>>> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
>>> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
>>> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
>>> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>>>
>>> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>>>
>>> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how 
 I feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the 
 limited amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the 
 cargo backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship 
 by 
 cargo ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. 
 I don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the 
 increase. 
 Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
 factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
 markets.

 Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about 
 buying a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the 
 low top tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and 
 they just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the 
 frame instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other 
 random thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the 
 Clem L?
 Doug

 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:

> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle 
> it until late Spring. 
>
> - Max " pickles" in A2
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:
>
>> >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
>> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
>> sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>> tickets"?.. 
>>
>> Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
>> October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)
>>
>> Get 'em here: 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871
>>
>> Thanks! 
>>
>> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>>>
 I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
 suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
 custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  
 When 
 you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the 
 year 
 that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
>>> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different 
>>> from 
>>> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>>>
>>> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for 
>>> my spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I 
>>> checked 
>>> was apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery 
>>> tickets to 
>>> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>>> tickets"?.. 
>>>
>>> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
>>> it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or 
>>> buying 
>>> mine anytime soon, just curious. 
>>>
>>> - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on 
>>> two wheels" in A2
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Doug H.]

I plan to put some knobby tires on it and take it on some single track as 
well as using it for errands and maybe an occasional commute. Clem Els seem 
to be good all-around bikes. I'd love to see some photos of people's Clem's 
set up for different uses, various tires, etc. Let's see your Clem L build!
Doug

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 11:08:11 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
> carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
> consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
> tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
> sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
> #toptubeswhoneedsem
>
> I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 
>
> Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how I 
>> feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the limited 
>> amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the cargo 
>> backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship by cargo 
>> ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. I 
>> don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the increase. 
>> Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
>> factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
>> markets.
>>
>> Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about buying 
>> a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the low top 
>> tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and they 
>> just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the frame 
>> instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other random 
>> thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the Clem L?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
>>> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
>>> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it 
>>> until late Spring. 
>>>
>>> - Max " pickles" in A2
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:
>>>
 >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
 apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
 sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
 tickets"?.. 

 Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
 October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)

 Get 'em here: 
 https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871

 Thanks! 

 john(at)rivbike(dot)com




 On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>
>> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
>> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
>> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  
>> When 
>> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the 
>> year 
>> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>
>
> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from 
> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>
> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
> spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked 
> was 
> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
> tickets"?.. 
>
> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
> it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or 
> buying 
> mine anytime soon, just curious. 
>
> - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
> wheels" in A2
>


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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Joe Bernard]

And to plagiarize myself a bit from that convo, some of us older dudes 
carry a stigma about step-throughs/mixtes that anyone under 30 would 
consider baffling. In reality it's just a tube brazed down lower on another 
tube instead of up higher, and most modern road and mountain bikes have 
sloping toptubes anyway! As our Bicycle Belle Ding Ding Leah says, 
#toptubeswhoneedsem

I hope you get that Clem, Doug! 

Joe "didn't kick my droptube today" Bernard

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 7:02:44 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how I 
> feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the limited 
> amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the cargo 
> backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship by cargo 
> ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. I 
> don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the increase. 
> Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
> factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
> markets.
>
> Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about buying 
> a step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the low top 
> tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and they 
> just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the frame 
> instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other random 
> thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the Clem L?
> Doug
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>
>> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
>> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
>> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it 
>> until late Spring. 
>>
>> - Max " pickles" in A2
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
>>> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
>>> sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>>> tickets"?.. 
>>>
>>> Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
>>> October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)
>>>
>>> Get 'em here: 
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871
>>>
>>> Thanks! 
>>>
>>> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>>
 *Johnny Alien wrote:*

> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  
> When 
> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.


 Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
 approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from 
 what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 

 I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
 spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
 apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
 sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
 tickets"?.. 

 I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
 it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or 
 buying 
 mine anytime soon, just curious. 

 - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
 wheels" in A2

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Doug H.]

Well, I bought a lottery ticket for a Clem and now I wait. Not sure how I 
feel about this system but it does seem a more fair way to sell the limited 
amount of bikes. This may be the new normal for awhile until the cargo 
backlog clears up. I read somewhere that the cost per bike to ship by cargo 
ship has gone from $17 per bike to about $70 per bike in some cases. I 
don't know how accurate these figures are but I don't doubt the increase. 
Couple that with the increased demand and decreased supply coming out of 
factories and one can easily understand the price increases across the 
markets.

Anyway, I was texting Joe earlier today about my reservation about buying a 
step-through frame and he was saying he loves his custom with the low top 
tube. I looked at a few builds online including Grant's Clem L and they 
just look so nice. At 54 years old I will enjoy stepping through the frame 
instead of having to do a leg lift every time I ride. One other random 
thought...I wonder if the Platypus has lowered the demand for the Clem L?
Doug

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 3:24:52 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:

> Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
> clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
> Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it 
> until late Spring. 
>
> - Max " pickles" in A2
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:
>
>> >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
>> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
>> sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>> tickets"?.. 
>>
>> Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
>> October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)
>>
>> Get 'em here: 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871
>>
>> Thanks! 
>>
>> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>>>
 I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
 suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
 custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
 you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
 that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
>>> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from 
>>> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>>>
>>> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
>>> spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
>>> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
>>> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>>> tickets"?.. 
>>>
>>> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
>>> it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or buying 
>>> mine anytime soon, just curious. 
>>>
>>> - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
>>> wheels" in A2
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Max S]

Aha... Thank you, John, for that note. Must have been a glitch. I just 
clicked on that link and was able to purchase. 
Winter is fast approaching here in MI, so we'll prob. have to pickle it 
until late Spring. 

- Max " pickles" in A2

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:50:59 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:

> >> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
> sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
> tickets"?.. 
>
> Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, 
> October 7, at 11:49AM (PDST)
>
> Get 'em here: 
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871
>
> Thanks! 
>
> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>
>> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>>
>>> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
>>> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
>>> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
>>> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
>>> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>>
>>
>> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
>> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from 
>> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>>
>> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
>> spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
>> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
>> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
>> tickets"?.. 
>>
>> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what 
>> it'll do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or buying 
>> mine anytime soon, just curious. 
>>
>> - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
>> wheels" in A2
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[John A. Bennett]

>> Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
sell out. Maybe >> later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
tickets"?.. 

Not to worry. The lottery tickets are NOT sold out, as of Thursday, October 
7, at 11:49AM (PDST)

Get 'em 
here: 
https://www.rivbike.com/products/clem-smith-lotto-ticket-z?variant=40615872757871

Thanks! 

john(at)rivbike(dot)com




On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 9:40:12 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:

> *Johnny Alien wrote:*
>
>> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
>> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
>> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
>> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
>> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>
>
> Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the 
> approach seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from 
> what advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 
>
> I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
> spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
> apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
> sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
> tickets"?.. 
>
> I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what it'll 
> do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or buying mine 
> anytime soon, just curious. 
>
> - Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
> wheels" in A2
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Eric Marth]

Max, I could be wrong, confused or *both* but I just checked the Clem lotto 
ticket page I can add all color and size combos to my cart. 

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 12:45:38 PM UTC-4 John A. Bennett wrote:

> Good point, Johnny. We do that for our custom frames. 
>
> For the stock frames, the list "sells out," and people are disappointed
> that they didn't know about the pre-sale. 
> It's not an issue with customs because each bike is made for the person
> who is ordering it. 
>
> With stock frames, we order a specific number. That's usually as many as 
> we can 
> afford and the number that our frame builder feels they can safely promise,
> based on supplies and their production calendar.
>
> We'll try the lottery, and see how that goes. 
>
> john(at)rivbike(dot)com
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:43:37 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
>> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
>> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
>> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
>> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>>
>> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 10:58:14 AM UTC-4 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with Jason on this. I would much prefer a pre-sale even if it meant 
>>> waiting a year, knowing said __ is on the horizon would be comforting.
>>>
>>> John is right.there is no perfect scenario. Strange times we're living 
>>> in.
>>>
>>> I feel fortunate to have an Atlantis and would love an Appaloosa (as 
>>> evidenced by my recent posts) but I'm on the outside looking in. The recent 
>>> Appaloosas have come and gone, so just unintentionally bad timing on my 
>>> part. The next shipment of Appaloosas probably won't be here until sometime 
>>> in 2023.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>> Los Angeles,CA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 6:41:30 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's kind of funny to me that the 
 way Riv sort of hypes up the drop of each frame several times over the 
 weeks and days leading up to a sale, combined with talk of how few frames 
 there are and how long it'll be before more come (no doubt because they're 
 trying to set expectations), ends up I think being a massively successful 
 sales tactic that does exactly what they appear to loath - sells frames 
 extremely fast because people are buying opportunistically to some extent. 
 It's now a rare and coveted opportunity to spend your money on a 
 Rivendell, 
 and that in itself is attractive. 

 Anyway, I think the lottery system is pretty darn fair - it evens the 
 playing field more than pretty much any other option. I know it's not the 
 best method for me, who has the flexibility to be ready to purchase at the 
 drop time and is pretty quick with a computer, as well as being reasonably 
 well-connected on Riv stuff, but that's sort of the point isn't it? 

 My preferred option would be the ability to pre-order - you might have 
 to wait a long time but you know you're in the queue.  I know Riv doesn't 
 like having this hanging over their heads but honestly, a deposit on a 
 frameset that can be cancelled for store credit at any time, which has no 
 guarantees on lead time at all but you will get your frame in the order 
 the 
 deposit was received, seems the best to me. Plus it gets them some money 
 in 
 the bank ahead of delivery date. 



 On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:39:03 UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

>
> In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just 
> "ernest money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers 
> of 
> people putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  
> No 
> point in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) 
> when there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a 
> bike.  It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 3:18:35 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it 
>> gets randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if 
>> you 
>> aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people 
>> that 
>> don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it 
>> leads 
>> to more sales.
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch 
>>> of people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many 
>>> times Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a 
>>> $50 
>>> raffle ticket. Fun! 
>>>
>>> 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[John A. Bennett]

Good point, Johnny. We do that for our custom frames. 

For the stock frames, the list "sells out," and people are disappointed
that they didn't know about the pre-sale. 
It's not an issue with customs because each bike is made for the person
who is ordering it. 

With stock frames, we order a specific number. That's usually as many as we 
can 
afford and the number that our frame builder feels they can safely promise,
based on supplies and their production calendar.

We'll try the lottery, and see how that goes. 

john(at)rivbike(dot)com

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 8:43:37 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.
>
> On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 10:58:14 AM UTC-4 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> I'm with Jason on this. I would much prefer a pre-sale even if it meant 
>> waiting a year, knowing said __ is on the horizon would be comforting.
>>
>> John is right.there is no perfect scenario. Strange times we're living in.
>>
>> I feel fortunate to have an Atlantis and would love an Appaloosa (as 
>> evidenced by my recent posts) but I'm on the outside looking in. The recent 
>> Appaloosas have come and gone, so just unintentionally bad timing on my 
>> part. The next shipment of Appaloosas probably won't be here until sometime 
>> in 2023.
>>
>> Hugh
>> Los Angeles,CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 6:41:30 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's kind of funny to me that the way 
>>> Riv sort of hypes up the drop of each frame several times over the weeks 
>>> and days leading up to a sale, combined with talk of how few frames there 
>>> are and how long it'll be before more come (no doubt because they're trying 
>>> to set expectations), ends up I think being a massively successful sales 
>>> tactic that does exactly what they appear to loath - sells frames extremely 
>>> fast because people are buying opportunistically to some extent. It's now a 
>>> rare and coveted opportunity to spend your money on a Rivendell, and that 
>>> in itself is attractive. 
>>>
>>> Anyway, I think the lottery system is pretty darn fair - it evens the 
>>> playing field more than pretty much any other option. I know it's not the 
>>> best method for me, who has the flexibility to be ready to purchase at the 
>>> drop time and is pretty quick with a computer, as well as being reasonably 
>>> well-connected on Riv stuff, but that's sort of the point isn't it? 
>>>
>>> My preferred option would be the ability to pre-order - you might have 
>>> to wait a long time but you know you're in the queue.  I know Riv doesn't 
>>> like having this hanging over their heads but honestly, a deposit on a 
>>> frameset that can be cancelled for store credit at any time, which has no 
>>> guarantees on lead time at all but you will get your frame in the order the 
>>> deposit was received, seems the best to me. Plus it gets them some money in 
>>> the bank ahead of delivery date. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:39:03 UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>>

 In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just 
 "ernest money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers 
 of 
 people putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  
 No 
 point in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) 
 when there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a 
 bike.  It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.
 On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 3:18:35 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it 
> gets randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if 
> you 
> aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that 
> don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it 
> leads 
> to more sales.
>
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch 
>> of people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many 
>> times Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a 
>> $50 
>> raffle ticket. Fun! 
>>
>> Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high 
>>> that most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened 
>>> them up to sales. So this time:
>>> You buy a $50 

[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Max S]

*Johnny Alien wrote:*

> I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
> suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
> custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
> you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
> that it has taken they can move on to the next name.


Agreed. What Riv is currently devising seems convoluted... But the approach 
seems to work for the company and, really, is not different from what 
advertising has done in the past and continues to do. 

I'm awash in bikes, but wanted to snag a Clem L in a warm color for my 
spouse. Alas, 1.5 hrs between that email being sent and when I checked was 
apparently more time than it took for all 200 of the lottery tickets to 
sell out. Maybe later folks will start to auction off their "lottery 
tickets"?.. 

I am curious how well the supply chain is going to recover, and what it'll 
do to the demand and prices for bikes. Not that I'm selling or buying mine 
anytime soon, just curious. 

- Max "emotionally overly attached to certain tangible objects on two 
wheels" in A2

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Johnny Alien]

I think the word "presale" is a bit misleading as to what is being 
suggested here.  The suggestion is that they should start a list like 
custom builders do. Lay down that $50 and you are added to the list.  When 
you are up they contact you and if you have changed your mind in the year 
that it has taken they can move on to the next name.

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 10:58:14 AM UTC-4 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> I'm with Jason on this. I would much prefer a pre-sale even if it meant 
> waiting a year, knowing said __ is on the horizon would be comforting.
>
> John is right.there is no perfect scenario. Strange times we're living in.
>
> I feel fortunate to have an Atlantis and would love an Appaloosa (as 
> evidenced by my recent posts) but I'm on the outside looking in. The recent 
> Appaloosas have come and gone, so just unintentionally bad timing on my 
> part. The next shipment of Appaloosas probably won't be here until sometime 
> in 2023.
>
> Hugh
> Los Angeles,CA
>
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 6:41:30 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's kind of funny to me that the way 
>> Riv sort of hypes up the drop of each frame several times over the weeks 
>> and days leading up to a sale, combined with talk of how few frames there 
>> are and how long it'll be before more come (no doubt because they're trying 
>> to set expectations), ends up I think being a massively successful sales 
>> tactic that does exactly what they appear to loath - sells frames extremely 
>> fast because people are buying opportunistically to some extent. It's now a 
>> rare and coveted opportunity to spend your money on a Rivendell, and that 
>> in itself is attractive. 
>>
>> Anyway, I think the lottery system is pretty darn fair - it evens the 
>> playing field more than pretty much any other option. I know it's not the 
>> best method for me, who has the flexibility to be ready to purchase at the 
>> drop time and is pretty quick with a computer, as well as being reasonably 
>> well-connected on Riv stuff, but that's sort of the point isn't it? 
>>
>> My preferred option would be the ability to pre-order - you might have to 
>> wait a long time but you know you're in the queue.  I know Riv doesn't like 
>> having this hanging over their heads but honestly, a deposit on a frameset 
>> that can be cancelled for store credit at any time, which has no guarantees 
>> on lead time at all but you will get your frame in the order the deposit 
>> was received, seems the best to me. Plus it gets them some money in the 
>> bank ahead of delivery date. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:39:03 UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just 
>>> "ernest money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers of 
>>> people putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  No 
>>> point in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) 
>>> when there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a 
>>> bike.  It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.
>>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 3:18:35 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it gets 
 randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if you 
 aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that 
 don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it leads 
 to more sales.

 On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of 
> people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many 
> times 
> Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 
> raffle 
> ticket. Fun! 
>
> Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard
>
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high 
>> that most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened 
>> them up to sales. So this time:
>> You buy a $50 "ticket."
>> They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours 
>> to purchase a bike.
>> If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.
>> Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.
>> How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at 
>> the end of the day?
>>
>> Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury 
>> of owning two Rivs, so what do I know!
>>
>> Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Hugh Smitham]

I'm with Jason on this. I would much prefer a pre-sale even if it meant 
waiting a year, knowing said __ is on the horizon would be comforting.

John is right.there is no perfect scenario. Strange times we're living in.

I feel fortunate to have an Atlantis and would love an Appaloosa (as 
evidenced by my recent posts) but I'm on the outside looking in. The recent 
Appaloosas have come and gone, so just unintentionally bad timing on my 
part. The next shipment of Appaloosas probably won't be here until sometime 
in 2023.

Hugh
Los Angeles,CA

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 6:41:30 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's kind of funny to me that the way 
> Riv sort of hypes up the drop of each frame several times over the weeks 
> and days leading up to a sale, combined with talk of how few frames there 
> are and how long it'll be before more come (no doubt because they're trying 
> to set expectations), ends up I think being a massively successful sales 
> tactic that does exactly what they appear to loath - sells frames extremely 
> fast because people are buying opportunistically to some extent. It's now a 
> rare and coveted opportunity to spend your money on a Rivendell, and that 
> in itself is attractive. 
>
> Anyway, I think the lottery system is pretty darn fair - it evens the 
> playing field more than pretty much any other option. I know it's not the 
> best method for me, who has the flexibility to be ready to purchase at the 
> drop time and is pretty quick with a computer, as well as being reasonably 
> well-connected on Riv stuff, but that's sort of the point isn't it? 
>
> My preferred option would be the ability to pre-order - you might have to 
> wait a long time but you know you're in the queue.  I know Riv doesn't like 
> having this hanging over their heads but honestly, a deposit on a frameset 
> that can be cancelled for store credit at any time, which has no guarantees 
> on lead time at all but you will get your frame in the order the deposit 
> was received, seems the best to me. Plus it gets them some money in the 
> bank ahead of delivery date. 
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:39:03 UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:
>
>>
>> In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just 
>> "ernest money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers of 
>> people putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  No 
>> point in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) 
>> when there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a 
>> bike.  It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 3:18:35 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>
>>> I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it gets 
>>> randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if you 
>>> aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that 
>>> don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it leads 
>>> to more sales.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of 
 people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many times 
 Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 raffle 
 ticket. Fun! 

 Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard

 On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:

> I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high that 
> most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened them 
> up 
> to sales. So this time:
> You buy a $50 "ticket."
> They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours to 
> purchase a bike.
> If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.
> Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.
> How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at the 
> end of the day?
>
> Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury of 
> owning two Rivs, so what do I know!
>
> Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,
>
> Edwin
>


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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[John A. Bennett]

As we have discovered, there's no perfect method these days. 
Pre-selling is *still* based on a specific number of frames/bikes.
That's how we have to order them: "100 of _, please."

And when the pre-sale "sells out" and someone didn't know about
it, they're just as disappointed and frustrated as if they tried to click on
a link at High Noon along with everyone else who wanted __.

We're hopeful that the lottery will relieve some of the stress.
Is it perfect? No. What is? (Besides Jimi Hendrix's cover of
Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower," that is.)

As we have said before, this is not how we'd like it to be. And no,
it's not an intentional - or unintentional - marketing scheme. 

Sending emails and posting updates on Instagram about the 
sale of ___  in  days was our way of answering the concerns
of would-be buyers who said they didn't know about __ going on 
sale, and *had they known*, they'd have

We don't want to tie our customers to their phones or laptops, so we
try and give as much of a "heads-up" as possible about the upcoming
availability of .

That way, customers can mark their calendars, forget about it, and go for 
ride.
And hopefully, the lottery will help with that even more. 

Thank you for your patience, and suggestions. 

john(at)rivbike(dot)com

PS: Hey, have you seen our Instagram? 

https://www.instagram.com/rivbike/
On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 2:57:41 AM UTC-7 brendonoid wrote:

> As someone who has waited 3+ years for kickstarters etc, I'm with Jason on 
> the preorder idea. 
>
> I'd rather wait a really long time for something I will definitely get 
> eventually.
> The new way of having to follow the social medias and trying to get in on 
> limited runs, etc is exhausting and puts me off buying stuff I want. I 
> wouldn't want Riv going down that route.
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Shoji Takahashi]

I missed out on a Platypus frame. I had one in my cart and then it 
disappeared in the time it took to click purchase. 

I think the lottery system is more fair than the present. I would be happy 
to pre-order, but many places that do so also sellout very quickly. I guess 
the next iteration is a lottery ticket for a pre-sale... amazing what it's 
become. 

shoji
Arlington MA
 

On Thursday, October 7, 2021 at 5:57:41 AM UTC-4 brendonoid wrote:

> As someone who has waited 3+ years for kickstarters etc, I'm with Jason on 
> the preorder idea. 
>
> I'd rather wait a really long time for something I will definitely get 
> eventually.
> The new way of having to follow the social medias and trying to get in on 
> limited runs, etc is exhausting and puts me off buying stuff I want. I 
> wouldn't want Riv going down that route.
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[brendonoid]

As someone who has waited 3+ years for kickstarters etc, I'm with Jason on 
the preorder idea. 

I'd rather wait a really long time for something I will definitely get 
eventually.
The new way of having to follow the social medias and trying to get in on 
limited runs, etc is exhausting and puts me off buying stuff I want. I 
wouldn't want Riv going down that route.

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Jason Fuller]

I'm sure it's not intentional, but it's kind of funny to me that the way 
Riv sort of hypes up the drop of each frame several times over the weeks 
and days leading up to a sale, combined with talk of how few frames there 
are and how long it'll be before more come (no doubt because they're trying 
to set expectations), ends up I think being a massively successful sales 
tactic that does exactly what they appear to loath - sells frames extremely 
fast because people are buying opportunistically to some extent. It's now a 
rare and coveted opportunity to spend your money on a Rivendell, and that 
in itself is attractive. 

Anyway, I think the lottery system is pretty darn fair - it evens the 
playing field more than pretty much any other option. I know it's not the 
best method for me, who has the flexibility to be ready to purchase at the 
drop time and is pretty quick with a computer, as well as being reasonably 
well-connected on Riv stuff, but that's sort of the point isn't it? 

My preferred option would be the ability to pre-order - you might have to 
wait a long time but you know you're in the queue.  I know Riv doesn't like 
having this hanging over their heads but honestly, a deposit on a frameset 
that can be cancelled for store credit at any time, which has no guarantees 
on lead time at all but you will get your frame in the order the deposit 
was received, seems the best to me. Plus it gets them some money in the 
bank ahead of delivery date. 



On Wednesday, 6 October 2021 at 15:39:03 UTC-7 iamkeith wrote:

>
> In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just "ernest 
> money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers of people 
> putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  No point 
> in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) when 
> there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a bike.  
> It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 3:18:35 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it gets 
>> randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if you 
>> aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that 
>> don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it leads 
>> to more sales.
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of 
>>> people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many times 
>>> Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 raffle 
>>> ticket. Fun! 
>>>
>>> Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>>
 I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high that 
 most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened them up 
 to sales. So this time:
 You buy a $50 "ticket."
 They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours to 
 purchase a bike.
 If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.
 Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.
 How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at the 
 end of the day?

 Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury of 
 owning two Rivs, so what do I know!

 Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,

 Edwin

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[iamkeith]

In addition to the attemp to make it fair, I think the $50 is just "ernest 
money."  If they didn't ask for that,  there'd be untold numbers of people 
putting their names in the hat without a firm commitment to buy.  No point 
in wasting time on tire-kickers (or, worse, scalpers/speculators) when 
there are more than enough people out there who legitimately want a bike.  
It all seems to be pretty reasonable to me.
On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 3:18:35 PM UTC-6 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it gets 
> randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if you 
> aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that 
> don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it leads 
> to more sales.
>
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of 
>> people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many times 
>> Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 raffle 
>> ticket. Fun! 
>>
>> Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high that 
>>> most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened them up 
>>> to sales. So this time:
>>> You buy a $50 "ticket."
>>> They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours to 
>>> purchase a bike.
>>> If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.
>>> Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.
>>> How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at the 
>>> end of the day?
>>>
>>> Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury of 
>>> owning two Rivs, so what do I know!
>>>
>>> Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Johnny Alien]

I mean it IS essentially a raffle ticket.  You buy a ticket and it gets 
randomly selected. The only difference is that you get a refund if you 
aren't selected. I think the idea on their side is all of the people that 
don't get the bike will maybe just keep the $50 in credit so that it leads 
to more sales.

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of 
> people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many times 
> Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 raffle 
> ticket. Fun! 
>
> Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard
>
> On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high that 
>> most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened them up 
>> to sales. So this time:
>> You buy a $50 "ticket."
>> They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours to 
>> purchase a bike.
>> If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.
>> Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.
>> How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at the 
>> end of the day?
>>
>> Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury of 
>> owning two Rivs, so what do I know!
>>
>> Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Lotto

[Joe Bernard]

I think it solves the "everybody click at once at noon then a bunch of 
people are pissed off" problem, but I guarantee - no matter how many times 
Will explains it - that someone is going to think they bought a $50 raffle 
ticket. Fun! 

Joe "ooh, a LimeOlive Clem I don't need..." Bernard

On Wednesday, October 6, 2021 at 12:49:18 PM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:

> I am glad to hear the demand for Rivendell bikes is high. So high that 
> most sizes sold out immediately when posting last time they opened them up 
> to sales. So this time:
> You buy a $50 "ticket."
> They draw tickets out of a hat for the "winners," who have 24 hours to 
> purchase a bike.
> If someone doesn't buy, they pull another name out of a hat.
> Sounds complicated and added work for the folks down at Riv.
> How many people REALLY wanted a Riv and weren't able to get one at the end 
> of the day?
>
> Seems like overthinking to me, but I am living in the lap of luxury of 
> owning two Rivs, so what do I know!
>
> Whatever the process, good luck to Riv,
>
> Edwin
>

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