[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Jack Doran]

Just a bit on the albas and the tuck:

I have toured with them quite a bit and found that on descents, I can 
maintain a pace with friends tucking on drops by using the normal hand 
positions on the albas but tucking my elbows in at my ribs. I always feel 
like I should be wearing a cape doing this since it probably looks fairly 
silly, but who cares?

On fairly straight descents where I don't plan on doing much braking, I use 
the very position you mention, Mark, but I feel like the issue with a "laid 
back" saddle is mitigated by having the pedals at about 2 and 8 o'clock, 
which is good for balance and stability and offloads enough weight from the 
saddle so the nose isn't digging into my sensitive parts. Obviously, this 
only applies to descending and not getting a good aero pace on flats.

As for trail riding, the albas are great for stability (especially when 
loaded down with gear) but I have found that on steep climbing sections, I 
desire a bar that is more perpendicular to me so I can pull back on it 
while mashing up the climb. The bends on the albas are adequate enough for 
this, but aren't wide enough to feel really stable, in my experience. 
Obviously, something like the bullmoose would be better, but everything has 
a trade off. I dig the albas a lot, and it doesn't hurt that they're so 
easy on the eyes.



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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Mark Reimer]

Weekend ride report on Albatross and prairie winds: Overall positive 
experience. I did 85km in misty grim weather. Mostly trail riding, mix of 
gravel and pavement, lots of ice still on the road. Alba's were nice for 
maintaining control on the real slippery stuff when it crept up on me. 
Heading home into the wind, I found the alba's actually make a pretty good 
platform for riding in an aero position! I put my forearms on the end of 
the bars (the 'normal' hand location), and my hands joined together near 
the stem clamp. Now I'm nice and bent over with a lot of body support. I 
could ride like this for quite a while. However my normal upright riding 
position calls for a fairly inclined Brooks saddle position, which isn't 
ideal for the aero tuck. 


On Sunday, March 13, 2016 at 9:53:12 AM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> I'll put in another plug for Ahearne Map bars.  
> I've been 88 mi on these without a circulation pinch anywhere.  
>
>
> 
>   
>
> Getting the hand position correct is everything, and 30+ mile rides are 
> the key there, making slight tweaks on the bar rotation at the stem and the 
> height of the stem.  
>
> I do call this bike my parachute, but I can reasonably bend into the wind 
> to improve it a little bit.  I've found it to be a lot more comfortable on 
> long rides than drops, though not as fast into the wind.  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Ron Mc]

I'll put in another plug for Ahearne Map bars.  
I've been 88 mi on these without a circulation pinch anywhere.  


  

Getting the hand position correct is everything, and 30+ mile rides are the 
key there, making slight tweaks on the bar rotation at the stem and the 
height of the stem.  

I do call this bike my parachute, but I can reasonably bend into the wind 
to improve it a little bit.  I've found it to be a lot more comfortable on 
long rides than drops, though not as fast into the wind.  

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Mark Reimer]

I'll tell you tomorrow. Thus far I've only been riding in the city, so it's 
a non-issue. The weather hasn't been warm enough for out-of-the-city riding 
till now. Tomorrow is +12C with a 30km/h South wind, and I'm planning to 
ride straight North for 35km to a provincial park, meaning I've got a slog 
coming home. 

Overall the bars have been coming along nicely. I raised them about 1.5cm 
and tilted them a little further down. It's been nice. I won't be keeping 
them on too much longer though. With the warm weather fast approaching I'll 
be doing more longer-distance rides. I prefer Noodles or dirt drops for 
that. 

On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 8:44:49 PM UTC-6, John Phillips wrote:
>
> Mark, How are the Albatross bars holding up during rides vs your prarie 
> winds?
>
> John
>
> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 12:21:40 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
>>
>> I decided to try swapping my Soma Portola dirt drop bars on my Atlantis 
>> for Albatross bars. I had them on for a short while last year in winter and 
>> enjoyed them, but ultimately switched them out because I found the very 
>> upright position made it difficult to ride fast or into the wind. I've been 
>> using my Atlantis as a daily rider lately, so going fast isn't as much of a 
>> concern right now. I just want something comfortable for ripping around 
>> town, running errands, lazy evening rides. 
>>
>> For the most part I've found it to be a success. However I'm surprised to 
>> be getting sore hands! Maybe they aren't up high enough? I don't remember 
>> having this issue before. But after riding for an hour or so, it seems I 
>> have a lot of weight on the bars which causes them to get uncomfortable. 
>> What's your experiences been like? 
>>
>> Either way, it sure does look good. 
>>
>> Oh, and switching to down-tube shifters has been GREAT so far. No more 
>> bruises on my thighs when the weighted bars flop into my leg accidentally. 
>> No more worrying about a shifter catching my top tube if it flops over. And 
>> the absence of cable housing in the cold and damp weather has resulted in 
>> much crisper shifting overall. I'm a fan!
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[John Phillips]

Mark, How are the Albatross bars holding up during rides vs your prarie 
winds?

John

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 12:21:40 PM UTC-8, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> I decided to try swapping my Soma Portola dirt drop bars on my Atlantis 
> for Albatross bars. I had them on for a short while last year in winter and 
> enjoyed them, but ultimately switched them out because I found the very 
> upright position made it difficult to ride fast or into the wind. I've been 
> using my Atlantis as a daily rider lately, so going fast isn't as much of a 
> concern right now. I just want something comfortable for ripping around 
> town, running errands, lazy evening rides. 
>
> For the most part I've found it to be a success. However I'm surprised to 
> be getting sore hands! Maybe they aren't up high enough? I don't remember 
> having this issue before. But after riding for an hour or so, it seems I 
> have a lot of weight on the bars which causes them to get uncomfortable. 
> What's your experiences been like? 
>
> Either way, it sure does look good. 
>
> Oh, and switching to down-tube shifters has been GREAT so far. No more 
> bruises on my thighs when the weighted bars flop into my leg accidentally. 
> No more worrying about a shifter catching my top tube if it flops over. And 
> the absence of cable housing in the cold and damp weather has resulted in 
> much crisper shifting overall. I'm a fan!
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Mark Reimer]

Thanks for all the suggestions guy. In the end I think it was just a 
positioning issue. I've angled the bars slightly more downward and raised 
them up a bit and it's improved it a lot. It's still not as comfortable as 
the dirt drops or noodles were for me, but better than I had originally. 
I'm considering thicker cork grips to increase the surface area as well. 
Overall things have improved though!

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 1:29:49 PM UTC-6, Garth wrote:
>
>
>   You could also set up the Albas without the grip and use bar end brake 
> lever and tape the bars with something padded like cork tape . Tape all the 
> way up and just over the curve. You can tell how far to go as there is a 
> point on the curve where it becomes unusable as it goes down and in. This 
> way you have lots more options including climbing on the curve.  Climbing 
> is often @ 10-11 o'clock high on the curve. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Garth]

  You could also set up the Albas without the grip and use bar end brake 
lever and tape the bars with something padded like cork tape . Tape all the 
way up and just over the curve. You can tell how far to go as there is a 
point on the curve where it becomes unusable as it goes down and in. This 
way you have lots more options including climbing on the curve.  Climbing 
is often @ 10-11 o'clock high on the curve. 

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[John Phillips]

I forgot to add, I also use the Riv cork grips on my Albas, which gives my 
hands a wider, cushier grip/resting place. Ergon grips work well too. I use 
Ergon biokorks on my Brompton. 

If I just used tape on my Albas, I the narrower grip would give me sore 
hands after awhile.

John

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Philip Kim]

like others, i've had better luck with handlebars just slightly above the 
saddle, and the handle bars angles down less. i used to run the albas 
angled down just a tad more than yours, but found that it had me leaning 
forward onto my hands more.

when i run the bars angled down less, it kind of operated like a perch for 
my hands to hang out.

gonna try to bullmoose boscos, and hope these will be just as good.


On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 3:21:40 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> I decided to try swapping my Soma Portola dirt drop bars on my Atlantis 
> for Albatross bars. I had them on for a short while last year in winter and 
> enjoyed them, but ultimately switched them out because I found the very 
> upright position made it difficult to ride fast or into the wind. I've been 
> using my Atlantis as a daily rider lately, so going fast isn't as much of a 
> concern right now. I just want something comfortable for ripping around 
> town, running errands, lazy evening rides. 
>
> For the most part I've found it to be a success. However I'm surprised to 
> be getting sore hands! Maybe they aren't up high enough? I don't remember 
> having this issue before. But after riding for an hour or so, it seems I 
> have a lot of weight on the bars which causes them to get uncomfortable. 
> What's your experiences been like? 
>
> Either way, it sure does look good. 
>
> Oh, and switching to down-tube shifters has been GREAT so far. No more 
> bruises on my thighs when the weighted bars flop into my leg accidentally. 
> No more worrying about a shifter catching my top tube if it flops over. And 
> the absence of cable housing in the cold and damp weather has resulted in 
> much crisper shifting overall. I'm a fan!
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[cyclotourist]

+1 on Mustache bars. The forward aero-position is just great, and as a
bonus you get the outside position. It's right in the middle between Albas
and drops. I'm contemplating putting them back on, as the drops aren't
quite cutting it for me.

On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 4:29 PM, Matt B.  wrote:

>
>
> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:36:53 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Plus, as a bonus, I could ride the drops/curves/hoods/forward position
>> AND have brakes. When I'm upright and cruisin', no need to brakes. That's
>> my "tra-la-la, oom-pum-tiddly-pom" Pooh position. No brakes required. At
>> the first sign of a heffalump or bees or other adventure -- "To the Hoods!
>> Whoah! Brakes. Just when I need them."
>>
>>
>
> This is exactly why I love my mustache bars so much.   They are the old
> shape mustaches, though I'd probably like the albastache shape too.  As you
> say brakes where you need em / not where you don't.
>
> I do have albatross style bars with long-reach stem on an old 3speed
> raleigh, and they're good, but i find myself riding in the curves a lot,
> especially on rough stuff, and wishing the levers were up there.   might
> source some interrupters eventually, or go mustache on that bike too.
>
> --
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-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Matt B.]

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:36:53 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Plus, as a bonus, I could ride the drops/curves/hoods/forward position AND 
> have brakes. When I'm upright and cruisin', no need to brakes. That's my 
> "tra-la-la, oom-pum-tiddly-pom" Pooh position. No brakes required. At the 
> first sign of a heffalump or bees or other adventure -- "To the Hoods! 
> Whoah! Brakes. Just when I need them." 
>
>

This is exactly why I love my mustache bars so much.   They are the old 
shape mustaches, though I'd probably like the albastache shape too.  As you 
say brakes where you need em / not where you don't.

I do have albatross style bars with long-reach stem on an old 3speed 
raleigh, and they're good, but i find myself riding in the curves a lot, 
especially on rough stuff, and wishing the levers were up there.   might 
source some interrupters eventually, or go mustache on that bike too.

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Deacon Patrick]

I've been mulling your dilemma since you posted it, Mark. I keep rereading 
it attempting to puzzle what seems so familiar. I think (dangerous 
territory!) hand/wrist comfort was part of my challenge with Albas and why 
I switched (and delightedly so) to A'staches. The more "technical" (a poor 
word choice here. Rough and tumble, perhaps?) a road or trail that greater 
the hand and wrist discomfort became. I tried many and various heights and 
tilts. Then onto the A'staches and "Ahhh!" Plus, as a bonus, I could 
ride the drops/curves/hoods/forward position AND have brakes. When I'm 
upright and cruisin', no need to brakes. That's my "tra-la-la, 
oom-pum-tiddly-pom" Pooh position. No brakes required. At the first sign of 
a heffalump or bees or other adventure -- "To the Hoods! Whoah! Brakes. 
Just when I need them." Grin.

That's a lot of words to say I think I've been there and I understand your 
pain and you may end up switchin' bars if you're as muddled about it as I 
was, until I wasn't any more. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick   

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 1:21:40 PM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
>
> However I'm surprised to be getting sore hands!
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[WETH]

Hi Mark,
As others have stated, there is much personal preference and anatomy at 
work.  However, in case it is helpful, here is a photo of albatross bars on 
my Surly LHT 58cm: https://flic.kr/p/fvX7CU
  I am about 5'10 and my seat height is about 75 1/2 inches. As others 
mentioned it took me a fair about of experimentation with stem height/ 
length as well as tilt of the bars to arrive at a position comfortable for 
long and short rides.  Once dialed-in they are quite comfortable.
All the best,
Erl

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 4:52:06 PM UTC-5, John Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
>On my Hunq, I raised my stem about even or maybe a little above my 
> saddle, so that I could give my Albatross bars a bit of a downward tilt. If 
> you look on the Riv staff bikes webpage, I have them set something like you 
> see on Will's Sam & Hunq.
>
> This way my wrists stay straight in line with my arms. But stem height 
> relative to saddle height would also depend on one's arm and torso length.
>
> If that was my bike in your photos, the stem would be about 2 1/2 to 3 
> inches higher, and the bars tilted down a bit more.
>
> Your Atlantis is looking good, as always.
>
> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[John Phillips]

Hi Mark,

   On my Hunq, I raised my stem about even or maybe a little above my 
saddle, so that I could give my Albatross bars a bit of a downward tilt. If 
you look on the Riv staff bikes webpage, I have them set something like you 
see on Will's Sam & Hunq.

This way my wrists stay straight in line with my arms. But stem height 
relative to saddle height would also depend on one's arm and torso length.

If that was my bike in your photos, the stem would be about 2 1/2 to 3 
inches higher, and the bars tilted down a bit more.

Your Atlantis is looking good, as always.

John
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Palmer]

Hi all,

I love my Albatross clone Soma Oxfords. At first I wrapped with bar tape only 
and had some hand issues and tried some Ergon GP grips in the slim profile. 
Absolute perfection for me. I finally settled on angling them up so my palm is 
supported by the flat and bars at saddle height. Windy? Bend and grab in front 
of the brake levers. Hill? stand up and swing her side to side. I ride them on 
fastish group rides. After the first 5 minutes while getting ready, no one 
comments. After the ride I look like a stud because I "kept up" with the 
plastic bikes. Luckily, not a fast group.

Good Luck in your quest for perfection.
Tom Palmer 
Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[JohnS]

Hello Mark,

FWIW, I would recommend raising the bars about an inch if possible. That's 
where I have my Alba's on my '82 Stumpjumper and my Big Dummy. I had the 
Stumpjumper out on Sunday for a 22 mile ride on the snow melt soaked D 
rail trail since it has full fenders. No numbness at all at the wrist or 
fingers. This was the first long ride with this bike in over two years.

JohnS


On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 3:21:40 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:

> I decided to try swapping my Soma Portola dirt drop bars on my Atlantis 
> for Albatross bars. I had them on for a short while last year in winter and 
> enjoyed them, but ultimately switched them out because I found the very 
> upright position made it difficult to ride fast or into the wind. I've been 
> using my Atlantis as a daily rider lately, so going fast isn't as much of a 
> concern right now. I just want something comfortable for ripping around 
> town, running errands, lazy evening rides. 
>
> For the most part I've found it to be a success. However I'm surprised to 
> be getting sore hands! Maybe they aren't up high enough? I don't remember 
> having this issue before. But after riding for an hour or so, it seems I 
> have a lot of weight on the bars which causes them to get uncomfortable. 
> What's your experiences been like? 
>
> Either way, it sure does look good. 
>
> Oh, and switching to down-tube shifters has been GREAT so far. No more 
> bruises on my thighs when the weighted bars flop into my leg accidentally. 
> No more worrying about a shifter catching my top tube if it flops over. And 
> the absence of cable housing in the cold and damp weather has resulted in 
> much crisper shifting overall. I'm a fan!
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Lungimsam]

I tried Albas jacked up to max height on an 8cm stem on my Sam and loved 
them. I could sit straight up. Awesome for looking around at the scenery, 
and great comfort and leverage for standing on the pedals riding.

But, after 40 miles, my hands felt stiff and a little beat up. I had red 
marks on my palms from where I grabbed the bars. Even on short rides, I 
felt that I will still bearing a good amount of weight on them.

Don't even get me started on moustache bars. They were the worst for me. 
Inescapable hand pressure points on any hand position on those bars. 1/2 
mile and numbness/pain would already set in. The thing with moustaches is 
that the same part of your hand contacts the bars no matter which position 
on the bar they are in.

Some people love them. But my hands didn't like them.

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[drew]

i hear you. i loved albatross bars. they were the single item that brought 
me to riv and exposed me to a type of riding that i actually enjoy, long 
before i ever saved up to buy a frame. I had to eventually move away from 
them because of the wrist/hand pain. i lost feeling in half my hands for a 
week or so and that was the end. it seems counterintuitive that you'd have 
more weight up front with more swept back bars, but i found that to be true 
as well...and with a variety of stem heights and lengths. maybe you dont 
have that much more weight up front, but the bars just put your hands in a 
position that is hard to support/maintain whatever weight is up there. 
either way,  ive moved to albastache, noodles and map ahearne bars on 
various bikes, at various times since. i like all with a few minor caveats, 
but none do to my wrists what alba's (and the new choco bars) do.

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Garth]

While no one can tell you what works for you , you may as well try them 
higher , a lot higher judging by the photo . I think I started mine an inch 
above the saddle and rose it another inch or so later on. I could still 
likely go higher , maybe some day , ho hum, ..My reference point 
for measuring bar height are top of the middle saddle and top middle of the 
bars next to the stem, off the floor. 

>
> Downward pressure on the bars has only to do with their position 
> hi/lo/fore/aft and not the bar itself, and your sense of what feels right 
> to you. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Ditched the dirt drops for Alba's. Not sure yet...

[Pondero]

I've just now completed the albatross set-up on all three of my bikes.  I 
couldn't be happier.  When I first switched from drop bars to albatross, I 
noticed two things.  First, it takes a little while to adjust/learn the new 
grip positions, and second, I needed to get the bars in the right place. 
 The sweet spot for me is a little closer than some folks like them.  In 
other words, I can basically use the same stem extension as I did for my 
noodles (which stretches me out pretty good).  I also like them about level 
with the saddle, or slightly above.  

When I set-up this way, my body feels like the weight is distributed 
comfortably and proportionately across pedals, saddle, and bars.  My hands 
don't have a lot of weight on them, and I'm comfortable on multi-hour rides 
(admittedly with several stops).  If you ride more aggressively, you might 
need a different balance between pedals, saddle, and bars.  You probably 
already know all this, but just in case...

Chris Johnson
Sanger, Texas

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