Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

oops, just saw the tear - my eye went right to the ridge...

>
>
> On Sunday, December 11, 2016 at 9:29:09 PM UTC-6, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> My old 'wright' leather saddle must have been listening to me rave about 
>> the Rivet and decided to give up the ghost...  I think it could have been 
>> avoided if I'd tightened up the nose screw a bit but it gave me very 
>> satisfactory service this year.  :)  I swapped the Rivet from the Bombadil 
>> over to the Saluki as I'm performing a cockpit change on the Bomba right 
>> now anyway.  This tear happened about halfway through my return commute on 
>> Friday, definitely noticeable but I was able to ride fine with it for the 
>> rest of the trip and a couple quick outings in the neighborhood this 
>> weekend.
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

Tony, that saddle would develop a worse ridge by tightening the nose screw. 
 


Only hope would be lacing it.  

On Sunday, December 11, 2016 at 9:29:09 PM UTC-6, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
>
> 
>
>
> My old 'wright' leather saddle must have been listening to me rave about 
> the Rivet and decided to give up the ghost...  I think it could have been 
> avoided if I'd tightened up the nose screw a bit but it gave me very 
> satisfactory service this year.  :)  I swapped the Rivet from the Bombadil 
> over to the Saluki as I'm performing a cockpit change on the Bomba right 
> now anyway.  This tear happened about halfway through my return commute on 
> Friday, definitely noticeable but I was able to ride fine with it for the 
> rest of the trip and a couple quick outings in the neighborhood this 
> weekend.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

  





high mileage Rivet

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Tony DeFilippo]

My old 'wright' leather saddle must have been listening to me rave about 
the Rivet and decided to give up the ghost...  I think it could have been 
avoided if I'd tightened up the nose screw a bit but it gave me very 
satisfactory service this year.  :)  I swapped the Rivet from the Bombadil 
over to the Saluki as I'm performing a cockpit change on the Bomba right 
now anyway.  This tear happened about halfway through my return commute on 
Friday, definitely noticeable but I was able to ride fine with it for the 
rest of the trip and a couple quick outings in the neighborhood this 
weekend.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[velomerlot]

Those are definitely NOT Rivet rivets! Not a Rivet, for sure!

- Elton Pope-Lance
Natick, MA

> On Dec 11, 2016, at 4:06 PM, Ron Mc  wrote:
> 
> SA, definitely not Rivet
> 
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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

SA, definitely not Rivet

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[John Hawrylak]

ian m

Is this a SA or a Rivet??

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 11:11:44 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:

> Here is a pic of my saddle for comparison
>
>
> 
>
>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Daniel D.]

I mentioned $99 SA sale price in the context of people willing to give the 
saddle a try rather than value.

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 10:00:30 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> I don't think it's feasible to expect Berthoud saddles to cost $99.  The 
> leather they use is scarce and hard to get, and other than the cleverness 
> in labor savings via automating or mechanizing part of the saddle 
> production process seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw 
> and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7G5RQieccI (the latter quite 
> short) I see zero evidence of any corner-cutting, cost-cutting or 
> penny-pinching going on.
>
> On 12/09/2016 12:30 PM, George Schick wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> -
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Les Lammers]

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 1:00:30 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> I've bought several from an ebay store located in Montreal Canada for 
> under $200 and have nothing but good things to say about them.   Clearly 
> not a replacement for Bill Laine, but a worthwhile resource nonetheless.  
> Also worth knowing about: if you have a question about Berthoud saddles you 
> can contact Berthoud directly via the contact form on their web site, and 
> they will answer you, and they speak English as well as French.
>
> I don't think it's feasible to expect Berthoud saddles to cost $99.  The 
> leather they use is scarce and hard to get, and other than the cleverness 
> in labor savings via automating or mechanizing part of the saddle 
> production process seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw 
> and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7G5RQieccI (the latter quite 
> short) I see zero evidence of any corner-cutting, cost-cutting or 
> penny-pinching going on.
>
> On 12/09/2016 12:30 PM, George Schick wrote:
>
> Speaking of price, I surfed around to find out what they (Berthoud's) do 
> cost and the first place that popped up was Wallbike.  But the site just 
> contained an announcement saying that Bill's hanging it up as of Dec. 2nd 
> and easing into retirement.  I hate to see him close down - it always felt 
> like you were doing business with a personal friend whenever you ordered 
> something from him. Best of luck in the sunset years, Bill! 
>
> So...it appears that Peter also sells them and, yes, they are rather 
> pricey.  But it's kinda like that post I made last week about the way 
> people object to the price of an Atlantis frame - it's all what you're 
> willing to spend in order to get the quality you want.
>
> On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 11:22:57 AM UTC-6, Daniel D. wrote: 
>>
>> I think it's about price more than anything.  Berthoud saddles start at 
>> what ~$200?  If you saw them on sale for $99 more people would be giving 
>> them a try.
>>
>> On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:48:17 PM UTC-8, Bill in Roswell GA 
>> wrote: 
>>>
>>> I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles any 
>>> more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
>>> comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for not 
>>> much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to 
>>> like saddles a bit on the firm side.  
>>>
>>> -
>
> I sent my unused SA back today and bought an Aspin with the 
> cutout Bill/Wall Bike has on the auction site. I have an older B-17 that I 
> sent to SA years ago to have the cut out done. It was magic for me. Still 
> like it but this thread pushed me over the edge, :-)
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Steve Palincsar]

I've bought several from an ebay store located in Montreal Canada for 
under $200 and have nothing but good things to say about them.   Clearly 
not a replacement for Bill Laine, but a worthwhile resource 
nonetheless.  Also worth knowing about: if you have a question about 
Berthoud saddles you can contact Berthoud directly via the contact form 
on their web site, and they will answer you, and they speak English as 
well as French.


I don't think it's feasible to expect Berthoud saddles to cost $99.  The 
leather they use is scarce and hard to get, and other than the 
cleverness in labor savings via automating or mechanizing part of the 
saddle production process seen here: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0OeHK6sVEw and here 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7G5RQieccI (the latter quite short) I 
see zero evidence of any corner-cutting, cost-cutting or penny-pinching 
going on.



On 12/09/2016 12:30 PM, George Schick wrote:
Speaking of price, I surfed around to find out what they (Berthoud's) 
do cost and the first place that popped up was Wallbike.  But the site 
just contained an announcement saying that Bill's hanging it up as of 
Dec. 2nd and easing into retirement.  I hate to see him close down - 
it always felt like you were doing business with a personal friend 
whenever you ordered something from him. Best of luck in the sunset 
years, Bill!


So...it appears that Peter also sells them and, yes, they are rather 
pricey.  But it's kinda like that post I made last week about the way 
people object to the price of an Atlantis frame - it's all what you're 
willing to spend in order to get the quality you want.


On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 11:22:57 AM UTC-6, Daniel D. wrote:

I think it's about price more than anything.  Berthoud saddles
start at what ~$200?  If you saw them on sale for $99 more people
would be giving them a try.

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:48:17 PM UTC-8, Bill in Roswell
GA wrote:

I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud
saddles any more. I guess most folks realized that a
Brooks/Rivet/SA is more comfortable for most people. However,
even a used Berthoud goes for not much less than near new
price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to like
saddles a bit on the firm side.

-


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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/09/2016 11:18 AM, George Schick wrote:

"...There is no panacea when it comes to saddles..."

Amen to that.  Also, things change over time.


No kidding.  I used Brooks Team Pros for close to 40 years, and B.17s 
for more than a dozen years with perfect satisfaction, and then one day 
they started to not work anymore.  It wasn't the saddles that changed, 
either: I changed.  Position didn't change, fit didn't change, but one 
year the saddles that felt great now started hurting around the 
perimeter, especially in the area where the saddle starts to narrow.  
Quite a shock, and quite an expense, too.  I'd thought for years that 
the "saddle merry-go-round" was finally over for me, that I'd found the 
answer for life; the only major perturbation was the scare when it 
looked like Brooks was going out of business.



When I started leaning toward "serious cycling" back in the early 70's 
I road bikes that the saddle jacked way up higher than the handlebars. 
It more or less had to be if one wanted to stick to the popular 
"groupo" of the day because Cinelli bar stems were too short to allow 
for much vertical adjustment.  So the saddles of choice were the 
narrower models like the Cinelli's.  Things progressed that way 
through the mid-90's when they more or less culminated with the Selle 
Italia Flite, a particularly stiff and narrow model.  About the time 
the turn of the century when the past-50 blues started playing, I 
discovered Grant and his various bike fitting methods and 
recommendations.  Now I ride with the bars level with the saddle and 
have been using a B17 ever since - far fewer aching back and neck 
pains after a ride.


And certainly, major changes in fit can call for major changes in saddles.




On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 7:25:29 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:


On 12/08/2016 10:48 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
> I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles
> any more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is
more
> comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for
> not much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try
one as
> I tend to like saddles a bit on the firm side.

Well, let's correct that.  A few years ago B.17s and Team Pro's
stopped
working for me.  I'd tried a Berthoud Aspin and found it worked,
and did
some unsuccessful experimentation with Rivet & SA.  I tried the Rivet
Pearl & Independence, and neither worked for me.  I bought a used SA
from a friend, tried it and found it OK for a 30 mile ride, but then
obtained a new one and found it bloody horrible: sharp edges at the
sides of the saddle really cut into my thighs.  Over the course of
the
next three years ended up switching all six bikes to Berthoud
saddles, 5
Aspins and one Aravis.  In many ways the Berthoud is a big
improvement
over the Brooks design.  The leather is better - thicker and more
consistent, tensioning is much easier - allen key fitting rather
than a
made-on nut requiring a special S-bend wrench, and the made-on bag
attachments - moulded in eyelets and a Klickfix mount - are vastly
superior to Brooks' metal loops (or nothing).   It takes longer to
break
in an Aspin than a B.17 because the leather is much thicker and
firmer.
Unlike SAs, Berthouds don't stretch much - at least, not the regular
unbutchered ones; I haven't tried the newly introduced slotted
models.

Regarding slotted saddles: they don't always work for everyone.
 On that
broken-in SA I never even noticed a slot was there.  Another friend
tried that same saddle when it was on a bike, before I bought it
and was
inspired to buy a new one; by the time we got to the 30 mile mark
on a
50 mile ride she was in such pain she bought a roll of duct tape
to tape
the slot over.  It was acting like a lobster claw, pinching her on
both
sides of the area slots are intended to protect.

There is no panacea when it comes to saddles.

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[George Schick]

Speaking of price, I surfed around to find out what they (Berthoud's) do 
cost and the first place that popped up was Wallbike.  But the site just 
contained an announcement saying that Bill's hanging it up as of Dec. 2nd 
and easing into retirement.  I hate to see him close down - it always felt 
like you were doing business with a personal friend whenever you ordered 
something from him. Best of luck in the sunset years, Bill!

So...it appears that Peter also sells them and, yes, they are rather 
pricey.  But it's kinda like that post I made last week about the way 
people object to the price of an Atlantis frame - it's all what you're 
willing to spend in order to get the quality you want.

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 11:22:57 AM UTC-6, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> I think it's about price more than anything.  Berthoud saddles start at 
> what ~$200?  If you saw them on sale for $99 more people would be giving 
> them a try.
>
> On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:48:17 PM UTC-8, Bill in Roswell GA 
> wrote:
>>
>> I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles any 
>> more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
>> comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for not 
>> much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to 
>> like saddles a bit on the firm side. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Daniel D.]

I think it's about price more than anything.  Berthoud saddles start at 
what ~$200?  If you saw them on sale for $99 more people would be giving 
them a try.

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 7:48:17 PM UTC-8, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>
> I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles any 
> more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
> comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for not 
> much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to 
> like saddles a bit on the firm side. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Les Lammers]

Here are some pics from and old post that compare the B-17 and Berthoud 
Aspin.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/flickr_lee/sets/72157625777465234/

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 8:25:29 AM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:

>
> On 12/08/2016 10:48 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote: 
> > I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles 
> > any more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
> > comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for 
> > not much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as 
> > I tend to like saddles a bit on the firm side. 
>
> Well, let's correct that.  A few years ago B.17s and Team Pro's stopped 
> working for me.  I'd tried a Berthoud Aspin and found it worked, and did 
> some unsuccessful experimentation with Rivet & SA.  I tried the Rivet 
> Pearl & Independence, and neither worked for me.  I bought a used SA 
> from a friend, tried it and found it OK for a 30 mile ride, but then 
> obtained a new one and found it bloody horrible: sharp edges at the 
> sides of the saddle really cut into my thighs.  Over the course of the 
> next three years ended up switching all six bikes to Berthoud saddles, 5 
> Aspins and one Aravis.  In many ways the Berthoud is a big improvement 
> over the Brooks design.  The leather is better - thicker and more 
> consistent, tensioning is much easier - allen key fitting rather than a 
> made-on nut requiring a special S-bend wrench, and the made-on bag 
> attachments - moulded in eyelets and a Klickfix mount - are vastly 
> superior to Brooks' metal loops (or nothing).   It takes longer to break 
> in an Aspin than a B.17 because the leather is much thicker and firmer.   
> Unlike SAs, Berthouds don't stretch much - at least, not the regular 
> unbutchered ones; I haven't tried the newly introduced slotted models. 
>
> Regarding slotted saddles: they don't always work for everyone.  On that 
> broken-in SA I never even noticed a slot was there.  Another friend 
> tried that same saddle when it was on a bike, before I bought it and was 
> inspired to buy a new one; by the time we got to the 30 mile mark on a 
> 50 mile ride she was in such pain she bought a roll of duct tape to tape 
> the slot over.  It was acting like a lobster claw, pinching her on both 
> sides of the area slots are intended to protect. 
>
> There is no panacea when it comes to saddles. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[George Schick]

"...There is no panacea when it comes to saddles..."

Amen to that.  Also, things change over time.  When I started leaning 
toward "serious cycling" back in the early 70's I road bikes that the 
saddle jacked way up higher than the handlebars. It more or less had to be 
if one wanted to stick to the popular "groupo" of the day because Cinelli 
bar stems were too short to allow for much vertical adjustment.  So the 
saddles of choice were the narrower models like the Cinelli's.  Things 
progressed that way through the mid-90's when they more or less culminated 
with the Selle Italia Flite, a particularly stiff and narrow model.  About 
the time the turn of the century when the past-50 blues started playing, I 
discovered Grant and his various bike fitting methods and recommendations. 
 Now I ride with the bars level with the saddle and have been using a B17 
ever since - far fewer aching back and neck pains after a ride.  

On Friday, December 9, 2016 at 7:25:29 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 12/08/2016 10:48 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote: 
> > I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles 
> > any more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
> > comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for 
> > not much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as 
> > I tend to like saddles a bit on the firm side. 
>
> Well, let's correct that.  A few years ago B.17s and Team Pro's stopped 
> working for me.  I'd tried a Berthoud Aspin and found it worked, and did 
> some unsuccessful experimentation with Rivet & SA.  I tried the Rivet 
> Pearl & Independence, and neither worked for me.  I bought a used SA 
> from a friend, tried it and found it OK for a 30 mile ride, but then 
> obtained a new one and found it bloody horrible: sharp edges at the 
> sides of the saddle really cut into my thighs.  Over the course of the 
> next three years ended up switching all six bikes to Berthoud saddles, 5 
> Aspins and one Aravis.  In many ways the Berthoud is a big improvement 
> over the Brooks design.  The leather is better - thicker and more 
> consistent, tensioning is much easier - allen key fitting rather than a 
> made-on nut requiring a special S-bend wrench, and the made-on bag 
> attachments - moulded in eyelets and a Klickfix mount - are vastly 
> superior to Brooks' metal loops (or nothing).   It takes longer to break 
> in an Aspin than a B.17 because the leather is much thicker and firmer.   
> Unlike SAs, Berthouds don't stretch much - at least, not the regular 
> unbutchered ones; I haven't tried the newly introduced slotted models. 
>
> Regarding slotted saddles: they don't always work for everyone.  On that 
> broken-in SA I never even noticed a slot was there.  Another friend 
> tried that same saddle when it was on a bike, before I bought it and was 
> inspired to buy a new one; by the time we got to the 30 mile mark on a 
> 50 mile ride she was in such pain she bought a roll of duct tape to tape 
> the slot over.  It was acting like a lobster claw, pinching her on both 
> sides of the area slots are intended to protect. 
>
> There is no panacea when it comes to saddles. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/08/2016 10:48 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles 
any more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for 
not much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as 
I tend to like saddles a bit on the firm side.


Well, let's correct that.  A few years ago B.17s and Team Pro's stopped 
working for me.  I'd tried a Berthoud Aspin and found it worked, and did 
some unsuccessful experimentation with Rivet & SA.  I tried the Rivet 
Pearl & Independence, and neither worked for me.  I bought a used SA 
from a friend, tried it and found it OK for a 30 mile ride, but then 
obtained a new one and found it bloody horrible: sharp edges at the 
sides of the saddle really cut into my thighs.  Over the course of the 
next three years ended up switching all six bikes to Berthoud saddles, 5 
Aspins and one Aravis.  In many ways the Berthoud is a big improvement 
over the Brooks design.  The leather is better - thicker and more 
consistent, tensioning is much easier - allen key fitting rather than a 
made-on nut requiring a special S-bend wrench, and the made-on bag 
attachments - moulded in eyelets and a Klickfix mount - are vastly 
superior to Brooks' metal loops (or nothing).   It takes longer to break 
in an Aspin than a B.17 because the leather is much thicker and firmer.  
Unlike SAs, Berthouds don't stretch much - at least, not the regular 
unbutchered ones; I haven't tried the newly introduced slotted models.


Regarding slotted saddles: they don't always work for everyone.  On that 
broken-in SA I never even noticed a slot was there.  Another friend 
tried that same saddle when it was on a bike, before I bought it and was 
inspired to buy a new one; by the time we got to the 30 mile mark on a 
50 mile ride she was in such pain she bought a roll of duct tape to tape 
the slot over.  It was acting like a lobster claw, pinching her on both 
sides of the area slots are intended to protect.


There is no panacea when it comes to saddles.

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

we just did - good job... I think Berthoud are fine saddles, and it's all 
my buddy rides.  I've never sprung for one, so couldn't give a review.  

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 9:48:17 PM UTC-6, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>
> I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles any 
> more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
> comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for not 
> much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to 
> like saddles a bit on the firm side. 
>
> Years ago, I found a 1978 B17 on ebay for $32. I really wanted to try one 
> out without the break-in period. It was like putting on an old pair of 
> bluejeans. Being of thicker leather that Brooks used back then, it is still 
> going strong (it's on my coffee shop bike, ridden 3-5 miles a few times a 
> week in nice weather - never rain!). 
>
> Hope to get a C17 soon as I can find one on sale or have a coupon. 
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I have a Berthoud Mente on my Seven Cafe  Racer and I like it just fine. It is 
thick leather but broke in nicely within a reasonable amount of time. That 
said, I am thinking of swapping it out for one of my B17 Select spares I have. 
Not much on the web about them and I agree they seem to be a lower profile 
option

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Bill in Roswell GA]

I find it a bit funny that we never hear about the Berthoud saddles any 
more. I guess most folks realized that a Brooks/Rivet/SA is more 
comfortable for most people. However, even a used Berthoud goes for not 
much less than near new price. Would be interesting to try one as I tend to 
like saddles a bit on the firm side. 

Years ago, I found a 1978 B17 on ebay for $32. I really wanted to try one 
out without the break-in period. It was like putting on an old pair of 
bluejeans. Being of thicker leather that Brooks used back then, it is still 
going strong (it's on my coffee shop bike, ridden 3-5 miles a few times a 
week in nice weather - never rain!). 

Hope to get a C17 soon as I can find one on sale or have a coupon. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Bill M.]

It's fine if I click on it to display it in another window.

Bill

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 10:56:19 AM UTC-8, ian m wrote:
>
> I just realized the picture I posted is strangely squished, don't know how 
> that happened. Still not sure how that would equate to thinking it was 
> stretched beyond the tension bolt

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

that's exactly what Team Pro is for - it's shaped very different from B17

On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 1:06:52 PM UTC-6, George Schick wrote:
>
> If the B-17 is the wrong shape for drop-bar riding, what about the Team 
> Pro?  I've had several of those over the years on road bikes and the only 
> thing I didn't like about it was the lack of bag loops (which can be 
> rectified by an add-on device).
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:22:59 PM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> OK, but this was the first 8 miles on my first S-A - it stretched so much 
>> the front of the saddle actually let go of the stretch bolt - this was 
>> stopped at a bike shop to borrow some tools to fix it.  
>> This took most of the stretch bolt and finally bent a rail.  
>>
>>
>> 
>> I have 10,000 mi on a B17 Select and took just a little stretch bolt in 
>> the summer when I was sweating heavily.  
>>
>>
>> 
>> I'm also pushing that distance on my Rivet Indy.  
>> It's one of the first Debra made and developed the problem of a ridge 
>> behind the slot, I think because the radius of that rear hole was too 
>> small.  
>> She solved this problem by increasing the diameter of the rear slot hole 
>> - I think at my recommendation.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Finally this year, I just took one of my very sharp knives and sliced the 
>> ridge off.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> It's working great.  This is a very cozy high-mileage saddle.  
>>
>>
>> I think for most people, B17 is the wrong shape for a drop-bar road bike 
>> - it certainly is for me.  I think B17 works best on your sit-up touring 
>> bike, and also works fine for me on an upright.  
>>
>> And I agree, for the greatest range in riding positions, S-A is the most 
>> invisible saddle ever made.  But matching a B17 or Rivet to its correct 
>> riding position (for your tush) is equally invisible.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:14:35 AM UTC-6, ian m wrote:
>>>
>>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather 
>>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model 
>>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, 
>>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going 
>>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather 
>>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for 
>>> either.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
>>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
>>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
>>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
>>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
>>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
>>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
>>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:

 I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
 sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
 past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
 Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
 wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
 people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember 
 some 
 people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
 thoughts comparing these 3 choices?

 Thanks,
 John

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Kieran J]

S-A also did an interesting crowdfunded project to make a leaf-dampened 
full carbon version of their saddle, for you weight weenies out there. 
It looks nuts! And it costs $400.

KJ


On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[George Schick]

If the B-17 is the wrong shape for drop-bar riding, what about the Team 
Pro?  I've had several of those over the years on road bikes and the only 
thing I didn't like about it was the lack of bag loops (which can be 
rectified by an add-on device).

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:22:59 PM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> OK, but this was the first 8 miles on my first S-A - it stretched so much 
> the front of the saddle actually let go of the stretch bolt - this was 
> stopped at a bike shop to borrow some tools to fix it.  
> This took most of the stretch bolt and finally bent a rail.  
>
>
> 
> I have 10,000 mi on a B17 Select and took just a little stretch bolt in 
> the summer when I was sweating heavily.  
>
>
> 
> I'm also pushing that distance on my Rivet Indy.  
> It's one of the first Debra made and developed the problem of a ridge 
> behind the slot, I think because the radius of that rear hole was too 
> small.  
> She solved this problem by increasing the diameter of the rear slot hole - 
> I think at my recommendation.  
>
>
> 
>
> Finally this year, I just took one of my very sharp knives and sliced the 
> ridge off.  
>
>
> 
>
> It's working great.  This is a very cozy high-mileage saddle.  
>
>
> I think for most people, B17 is the wrong shape for a drop-bar road bike - 
> it certainly is for me.  I think B17 works best on your sit-up touring 
> bike, and also works fine for me on an upright.  
>
> And I agree, for the greatest range in riding positions, S-A is the most 
> invisible saddle ever made.  But matching a B17 or Rivet to its correct 
> riding position (for your tush) is equally invisible.  
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:14:35 AM UTC-6, ian m wrote:
>>
>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather 
>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model 
>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, 
>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going 
>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather 
>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for 
>> either.
>>
>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>>
>>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> John
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[stonehog]

I am on the side of thumbs up for SA. I'm a mostly commuter, sometimes 
rando/bikepacker.  I've tried B17 (good shape, pretty), Rivet Pearl (good 
shape, too stiff), and Selle Anatomica X (old writeup here: 
https://stonehog.com/2012/08/02/leathersaddles/), and replaced all my 
saddles with the Selle Anatomica at this point.  Comfortable from the get 
go.  I weigh in around 165lb, and have skinny legs, bony butt, so this 
saddle fits me well.  I've put 300k on these in the rain, and while they 
may sag, they are comfy.  I can do the B17 for about 100k - anything more, 
and I will get numbness and soreness.  On the Rivet, I eventually did the 
Lon Haldeman Brooks break in method 
(https://stonehog.com/2013/05/29/soften-the-rivet/), but ended up giving 
the saddle away when that didn't really make things better.  Every butt is 
unique - everyone needs to try saddles to find the one that works for their 
butt, distance, style.  

Brian Hanson
Seattle, WA 

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 10:22:48 PM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Les Lammers]

John,

The Brooks Imperial is a B-17 with a cut out. I recently got the SA X with 
cut out for $99. I think I will have to drill it and use a zip tie to fine 
tune it. If you like the b-17 check out the Imperial.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 4:52:36 PM UTC-5, Eric Karnes wrote:

> I actually preferred the looks of the SA. It looks just right on a 
> slim-tubed steel bike like a Riv. Even the looks of the 'hammock' was fine 
> by me. But one of mine would routinely sag so severely that I could (just 
> barely) feel the top of the seatpost while riding. Not comfortable. Maybe I 
> got a defective one? I've been told the quality of SA saddles has decreased 
> dramatically since the founder's passing. Or maybe--as always--saddles are 
> a profoundly personal choice. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:25:23 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>
>> The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is 
>> *supposed* to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more 
>> interested in the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way 
>> you will not be happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
>>
>> Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet 
>> used to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike 
>> expo in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, 
>> even though I don't own one.
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>>
>>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather 
>>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model 
>>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, 
>>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going 
>>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather 
>>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for 
>>> either.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
>>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
>>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
>>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
>>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
>>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
>>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
>>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:

 I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
 sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
 past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
 Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
 wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
 people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember 
 some 
 people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
 thoughts comparing these 3 choices?

 Thanks,
 John

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Now that is one sagged saddle!

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
> I just realized the picture I posted is strangely squished, don't know how 
> that happened. Still not sure how that would equate to thinking it was 
> stretched beyond the tension bolt

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[ian m]

I just realized the picture I posted is strangely squished, don't know how that 
happened. Still not sure how that would equate to thinking it was stretched 
beyond the tension bolt

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[ian m]

Huh? There is half the bolt length left to further tension the saddle if I felt 
like destroying it. The bolt hasn't been turned for at least a year, I have no 
need to tension it any more as it is perfect the way it is

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

I wouldn't call that not stretching past the end of the stretch bolt.  

On my Rivet, the saddle really did stabilize and quit stretching after 100 
mi.  

On Wednesday, December 7, 2016 at 10:11:44 AM UTC-6, ian m wrote:
>
> Here is a pic of my saddle for comparison
>
>
> 
>
> My sit bones are well behind the seatpost so no threat of sagging until 
> they hit. There is no problem and nothing wrong with this saddle.
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 10:22:59 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>>
>> OK, but this was the first 8 miles on my first S-A - it stretched so much 
>> the front of the saddle actually let go of the stretch bolt - this was 
>> stopped at a bike shop to borrow some tools to fix it.  
>> This took most of the stretch bolt and finally bent a rail.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[ian m]

Here is a pic of my saddle for comparison



My sit bones are well behind the seatpost so no threat of sagging until 
they hit. There is no problem and nothing wrong with this saddle.


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 10:22:59 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> OK, but this was the first 8 miles on my first S-A - it stretched so much 
> the front of the saddle actually let go of the stretch bolt - this was 
> stopped at a bike shop to borrow some tools to fix it.  
> This took most of the stretch bolt and finally bent a rail.  
>
>
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

I grabbed a spare at $140 when we heard this, and it was timely for me. 
 But I've also heard since that Brooks is not discontinuing the Select.  

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Chris Birkenmaier]

The B17 Select is one of my favorite saddles which was why I was so bummed 
when Brooks discontinued making them.  I've had good luck with B17s, B-67s, 
B17 Specials, and the B-68.  The Pros are gorgeous and I can ride them but 
not my favorites for comfort.  I have a B17 Narrow which I can not ride on 
- hurts my butt.  Oh and the C-17 Cambium is also a no-go.  Too rounded on 
the top/back.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 10:26:26 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> Also want to add that my history with B17 Special and B17 Champion is 
> equally glum - 
>
> 
> - both stretched and developed bad ridges to the point that I had to lace 
> them 
> S. Texas summer sweat could be a factor in this, but doesn't show up in a 
> Select.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

Also want to add that my history with B17 Special and B17 Champion is 
equally glum - 


- both stretched and developed bad ridges to the point that I had to lace 
them 
S. Texas summer sweat could be a factor in this, but doesn't show up in a 
Select.  

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

OK, but this was the first 8 miles on my first S-A - it stretched so much 
the front of the saddle actually let go of the stretch bolt - this was 
stopped at a bike shop to borrow some tools to fix it.  
This took most of the stretch bolt and finally bent a rail.  


I have 10,000 mi on a B17 Select and took just a little stretch bolt in the 
summer when I was sweating heavily.  


I'm also pushing that distance on my Rivet Indy.  
It's one of the first Debra made and developed the problem of a ridge 
behind the slot, I think because the radius of that rear hole was too 
small.  
She solved this problem by increasing the diameter of the rear slot hole - 
I think at my recommendation.  



Finally this year, I just took one of my very sharp knives and sliced the 
ridge off.  



It's working great.  This is a very cozy high-mileage saddle.  


I think for most people, B17 is the wrong shape for a drop-bar road bike - 
it certainly is for me.  I think B17 works best on your sit-up touring 
bike, and also works fine for me on an upright.  

And I agree, for the greatest range in riding positions, S-A is the most 
invisible saddle ever made.  But matching a B17 or Rivet to its correct 
riding position (for your tush) is equally invisible.  



On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 8:14:35 AM UTC-6, ian m wrote:
>
> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past 
> the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, 
> X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a 
> week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a 
> second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the 
> original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.
>
> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>
>
> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Eric Karnes]

Hahaha. Love it!

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Glen]

I must be one of those that the X fits, I call it my "taint hammock" and it 
is by far the most comfortable saddle I've ever been on. B17 on my Atlantis 
with Albas and the X on my Noodled Ram.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 7:14:35 AM UTC-7, ian m wrote:
>
> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past 
> the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, 
> X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a 
> week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a 
> second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the 
> original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.
>
> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Daniel D.]

I'm not debating that point.  My brooks have some sag.  It's the amount or 
tendency of the material to sag that's the problem.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 1:50:16 PM UTC-8, ian m wrote:
>
> If the leather is taut with no slack it doesn't hammock your sit bones. If 
> it doesn't hammock your sit bones each side wont move independently of the 
> other. That movement combined with the slot to relieve perineal pressure 
> are what make the saddle comfortable. Like I said I purchased my first SA 
> saddle after meeting the previous owner (who now operates Rivet) and 
> talking with her about the design and trying the demo saddle. These things 
> are very much intentional design elements. I've managed to make my saddles 
> work to where they don't sag too much and I still have plenty of room to 
> tension more if I needed. Obviously one saddle design is not going to be 
> perfect for every human's butt, body shape is pretty wildly variable. 
> Doesn't make the saddle the problem.
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 4:27:07 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote:
>>
>> Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's 
>> uncomfortable. The company line that it's supposed to sag a lot IMO seems 
>> more like an excuse than an actual design choice.  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Eric Karnes]

I actually preferred the looks of the SA. It looks just right on a 
slim-tubed steel bike like a Riv. Even the looks of the 'hammock' was fine 
by me. But one of mine would routinely sag so severely that I could (just 
barely) feel the top of the seatpost while riding. Not comfortable. Maybe I 
got a defective one? I've been told the quality of SA saddles has decreased 
dramatically since the founder's passing. Or maybe--as always--saddles are 
a profoundly personal choice. 

Eric


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:25:23 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
> The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* 
> to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in 
> the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be 
> happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
>
> Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet used 
> to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike expo 
> in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, even 
> though I don't own one.
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>
>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather 
>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model 
>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, 
>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going 
>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather 
>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for 
>> either.
>>
>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>>
>>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> John
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[ian m]

If the leather is taut with no slack it doesn't hammock your sit bones. If 
it doesn't hammock your sit bones each side wont move independently of the 
other. That movement combined with the slot to relieve perineal pressure 
are what make the saddle comfortable. Like I said I purchased my first SA 
saddle after meeting the previous owner (who now operates Rivet) and 
talking with her about the design and trying the demo saddle. These things 
are very much intentional design elements. I've managed to make my saddles 
work to where they don't sag too much and I still have plenty of room to 
tension more if I needed. Obviously one saddle design is not going to be 
perfect for every human's butt, body shape is pretty wildly variable. 
Doesn't make the saddle the problem.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 4:27:07 PM UTC-5, Daniel D. wrote:
>
> Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's 
> uncomfortable. The company line that it's supposed to sag a lot IMO seems 
> more like an excuse than an actual design choice.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Daniel D.]

Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's 
uncomfortable. The company line that it's supposed to sag a lot IMO seems 
more like an excuse than an actual design choice.  

yes out of the box it's more comfortable than a brooks.  But a brooks gets 
more comfortable over time a SA gets less comfortable.  Brooks, Berthoud, 
or Rivet for my next one.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 6:25:23 AM UTC-8, ian m wrote:
>
> The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* 
> to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in 
> the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be 
> happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
>
>  If I remember correctly, you're not a big guy either.


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 10:34:21 AM UTC-8, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> For me it wasn't the sagging of the SA it was the bending of the super 
> long rails over a century distance ride that did me in... I did find the 
> saddle to be pretty comfy.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Tony DeFilippo]

For me it wasn't the sagging of the SA it was the bending of the super long
rails over a century distance ride that did me in... I did find the saddle
to be pretty comfy.


On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Daniel D.  wrote:

> Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's
> uncomfortable. I'm not sure which came first the excessive sagging or their
> customer service response of "it's supposed to sag and warning about
>  over-tensioning":p.
>
> yes out of the box it's more comfortable than a brooks.  But a brooks gets
> more comfortable over time a SA gets less comfortable.  Brooks, Berthoud,
> or Rivet for my next one.
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 6:25:23 AM UTC-8, ian m wrote:
>>
>> The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is
>> *supposed* to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more
>> interested in the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way
>> you will not be happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
>>
>> Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet
>> used to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike
>> expo in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement,
>> even though I don't own one.
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>>
>>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather
>>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model
>>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it,
>>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going
>>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather
>>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for
>>> either.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and
>>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with
>>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each
>>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience
>>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after
>>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA
>>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each
>>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:

 I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on
 sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the
 past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout.
 Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet
 Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was
 wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read
 people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some
 people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any
 thoughts comparing these 3 choices?

 Thanks,
 John

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Daniel D.]

Not about looks it's about comfort.  Sagging too much then it's 
uncomfortable. I'm not sure which came first the excessive sagging or their 
customer service response of "it's supposed to sag and warning about 
 over-tensioning":p.

yes out of the box it's more comfortable than a brooks.  But a brooks gets 
more comfortable over time a SA gets less comfortable.  Brooks, Berthoud, 
or Rivet for my next one.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 6:25:23 AM UTC-8, ian m wrote:
>
> The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* 
> to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in 
> the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be 
> happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
>
> Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet used 
> to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike expo 
> in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, even 
> though I don't own one.
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>
>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather 
>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model 
>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, 
>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going 
>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather 
>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for 
>> either.
>>
>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>>
>>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> John
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Bruce Herbitter]

Thanks Ian.  I was feeling like the Lone Ranger.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 6, 2016, at 9:14 AM, ian m  wrote:
> 
> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past 
> the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, 
> X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a 
> week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a 
> second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the 
> original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.
> 
> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and the 
> looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with specific 
> body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each side of the 
> saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience thigh rub,  I 
> personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after riding one for about a 
> year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA was the most comfortable 
> saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each their own, best thing you 
> can do is try as many saddles as possible.
> 
> 
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on sale 
>> for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the past 
>> to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout.  Others I 
>> had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet Pearl.  I like 
>> the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was wondering if the 
>> SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read people raving about 
>> the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some people complaining 
>> about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any thoughts comparing these 3 
>> choices?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> John
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

['clayton bailey' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I just installed my fourth new SA. In my last comment I neglected to say, I had 
to do some prep work on my last saddle. I took coarse sandpaper and sanded down 
the edges to provide a rounded edge. I also carefully peened down the edge of 
the name plate so it won't tear up my shorts. Some mink oil on the edges of the 
leather fixes the destruction. I found the key to setting up mine is to set the 
nose a little high, and LIGHT tension. I haven't over stretched mine In my 
thirty years of riding, this is the most comfortable saddle I have tried. With 
beausage, they looks great. 
Claytonious QBend 
 

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 6:25 AM, ian m  wrote:
 

 The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* to 
sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in the 
saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be happy 
with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet used to 
run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike expo in SF. 
Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, even though I don't 
own one.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past the 
length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, X, ) 
I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a week long 
tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a second about 
3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the original. Haven't 
moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.
I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and the 
looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with specific 
body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each side of the 
saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience thigh rub,  I 
personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after riding one for about a 
year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA was the most comfortable 
saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each their own, best thing you 
can do is try as many saddles as possible.

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on sale 
for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the past to 
replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout.  Others I had been 
considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet Pearl.  I like the Rivet 
and don't know much about the C17 carved but was wondering if the SA was worth 
trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read people raving about the Rivet 
saddles here but also thought I remember some people complaining about the SA 
saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
Thanks,John

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I realize sagging is part of their design but when you get a saddle whose 
shirt goes from (nearly) vertical to horizontal - I have a fit problem with 
that.  Believe me, I wanted to like the saddle and am no stranger to 
leather ones.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:25:23 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
> The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* 
> to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in 
> the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be 
> happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer
>
> Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet used 
> to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike expo 
> in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, even 
> though I don't own one.
>
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>
>> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather 
>> past the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model 
>> before T, X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, 
>> rode it on a week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going 
>> strong. I bought a second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather 
>> more than on the original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for 
>> either.
>>
>> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
>> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
>> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
>> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
>> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
>> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
>> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
>> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>>
>>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> John
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[ian m]

The main take-away if you want to use a SA saddle is that it is *supposed* 
to sag. It's part of the design, not a flaw. If you are more interested in 
the saddle looking a certain way than feeling a certain way you will not be 
happy with these saddles. The cut-out is a life changer

Also I don't know if it was mentioned but the woman who started Rivet used 
to run SA. I purchased my first SA after speaking with her at a bike expo 
in SF. Would highly recommend buying Rivet due to her involvement, even 
though I don't own one.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 9:14:35 AM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
> I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past 
> the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, 
> X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a 
> week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a 
> second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the 
> original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.
>
> I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
> the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
> specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
> side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
> thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
> riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
> was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
> their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.
>
>
> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[ian m]

I am honestly surprised people have managed to stretch the SA leather past 
the length of the tension bolt. I have a Titanico (original model before T, 
X, ) I've had for about 5 years. Put countless miles on it, rode it on a 
week long tour, commuted on it, you name it. Still going strong. I bought a 
second about 3 years ago (T model) and like the leather more than on the 
original. Haven't moved the tension bolt past halfway for either.

I'm guessing the combination of a less stiff leather than the Brooks and 
the looser hammocking shape of the saddle makes the SA work better with 
specific body shapes. People with uneven hip rotation will stretch each 
side of the saddle differently, people with thicker legs may experience 
thigh rub,  I personally never found a Brooks comfortable and after 
riding one for about a year barely noticed any breaking in whereas the SA 
was the most comfortable saddle I ever sat in right out of the box. To each 
their own, best thing you can do is try as many saddles as possible.


On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Ron Mc]

I ride B17 Select on upright and semi-upright moustache bike.  I ride Rivet 
Indy on my drop-bar road bike.  
Went through two S-A saddles and each lasted 6 months to the end of the 
stretch bolt.  

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Bill M.]

John,

I own and have ridden B17's, a Rivet Pearl Ti and an 
first-year-of-production SA.  They are quite different, and for me suit 
different purposes .  

The Rivet is narrow through the waist and nose, which eliminates a lot of 
thigh rub, but also makes it ride like a narrower saddle than the others 
though they measure the same at the widest point.  For me, that was great 
for my road/sport bike with bars a bit below the saddle, but doesn't work 
for me at all on a bike with something like Albatross bars and an upright 
position.  I rode the Pearl happily for several years though I'm trying 
something very different right now on the road bike (an SMP).

On the road bike the wider nose of a B17 gets in my way, but sitting more 
upright that becomes less of a problem.  I have one on my Clem (actually a 
Flyer at the moment) and it's pretty comfortable there.  I also slot the 
center of my Brookses and lace the skirts in tight, I can't ride one 
unmodified.

As delivered the SA was horrible for thigh rub, so it didn't take long for 
me to drill and lace mine.  It's made to fit like a hammock, so I can't 
ride it at all on the road bike, too much nose pressure.  Sitting very 
upright it became very comfortable for me.  The leather stretched a lot but 
finally stabilized.  Unfortunately I set it too far back on a seatpost with 
a short clamp, and the result was bent rails.  After bending the rails back 
twice I have now retired the saddle.  The are supposed to have improved the 
rails since mine was made, I can't vouch for that personally.

So, IMO, choose carefully based on your use and position on the bike - 
forward lean and pelvis rolled forward => Rivet, upright => SA.  Either way 
don't be afraid to carve or lace to suit.

Bill
Stockton, CA

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 8:46:51 AM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm glad I asked.  Between the 
> lukewarm to bad reports on the SA and the glowing reviews I found in 
> previous posts about Rivet, I think I'll hold off and spend the extra money 
> for the Rivet.  I was leaning that way anyway since I had met the woman who 
> runs Rivet at NAHBS and she was really great.  The whole company seemed 
> similar to Riv in their values.  Guess I should have followed that instinct 
> instead of getting cheap about something so crucial to a positive biking 
> experience.  Get what you pay for and all that...
>
> Thanks again.
> John
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 10:22:48 PM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Kieran J]

I've considered doing the same thing. No better candidate than an old, 
spent saddle! ;-)

KJ


On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 4:22:09 PM UTC-5, Les Lammers wrote:
>
> Kieran,
>
> I may drill my SA, it's the newer one rated for 250 pounds, and use zip 
> ties to keep it from splaying. YMMV.
>
> On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 1:18:26 PM UTC-5, Kieran J wrote:
>
>> Among other saddles, I've tried the B17, the Rivet Pearl and the regular 
>> S-A (not X) from a couple of generations (although not one of their current 
>> 'plate logo' versions). My impressions are that the Rivet is a nice 
>> composition in feel between the B17 and S-A. It combines elements of each, 
>> and it's pretty nice. 
>>
>> I still really like the S-A. It is my go-to commuter saddle, and I have 
>> probably 10,000km logged to my oldest one. Yes, the tension bolt is almost 
>> maxed out but as another poster mentioned, don't over-tension it and it 
>> will last. I have noticed the splayed out skirts of the saddle at times on 
>> my inner thighs, but even so it is still the only product that will 
>> virtually "disappear" underneath me. Almost everything else gives me real 
>> arse problems, including the Rivet.
>>
>> I never got along well with the B17. It's a classic saddle and I really 
>> wanted to, but the hardness and proximity of the back rivets to my butt 
>> cheek didn't work out.
>>
>> KJ
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>>
>>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> John
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Les Lammers]

Kieran,

I may drill my SA, it's the newer one rated for 250 pounds, and use zip 
ties to keep it from splaying. YMMV.

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 1:18:26 PM UTC-5, Kieran J wrote:

> Among other saddles, I've tried the B17, the Rivet Pearl and the regular 
> S-A (not X) from a couple of generations (although not one of their current 
> 'plate logo' versions). My impressions are that the Rivet is a nice 
> composition in feel between the B17 and S-A. It combines elements of each, 
> and it's pretty nice. 
>
> I still really like the S-A. It is my go-to commuter saddle, and I have 
> probably 10,000km logged to my oldest one. Yes, the tension bolt is almost 
> maxed out but as another poster mentioned, don't over-tension it and it 
> will last. I have noticed the splayed out skirts of the saddle at times on 
> my inner thighs, but even so it is still the only product that will 
> virtually "disappear" underneath me. Almost everything else gives me real 
> arse problems, including the Rivet.
>
> I never got along well with the B17. It's a classic saddle and I really 
> wanted to, but the hardness and proximity of the back rivets to my butt 
> cheek didn't work out.
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>>
>> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
>> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
>> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
>> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
>> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
>> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
>> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
>> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Kieran J]

Among other saddles, I've tried the B17, the Rivet Pearl and the regular 
S-A (not X) from a couple of generations (although not one of their current 
'plate logo' versions). My impressions are that the Rivet is a nice 
composition in feel between the B17 and S-A. It combines elements of each, 
and it's pretty nice. 

I still really like the S-A. It is my go-to commuter saddle, and I have 
probably 10,000km logged to my oldest one. Yes, the tension bolt is almost 
maxed out but as another poster mentioned, don't over-tension it and it 
will last. I have noticed the splayed out skirts of the saddle at times on 
my inner thighs, but even so it is still the only product that will 
virtually "disappear" underneath me. Almost everything else gives me real 
arse problems, including the Rivet.

I never got along well with the B17. It's a classic saddle and I really 
wanted to, but the hardness and proximity of the back rivets to my butt 
cheek didn't work out.

KJ


On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Surlyprof]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.  I'm glad I asked.  Between the 
lukewarm to bad reports on the SA and the glowing reviews I found in 
previous posts about Rivet, I think I'll hold off and spend the extra money 
for the Rivet.  I was leaning that way anyway since I had met the woman who 
runs Rivet at NAHBS and she was really great.  The whole company seemed 
similar to Riv in their values.  Guess I should have followed that instinct 
instead of getting cheap about something so crucial to a positive biking 
experience.  Get what you pay for and all that...

Thanks again.
John

On Saturday, December 3, 2016 at 10:22:48 PM UTC-8, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I had a Brooks Special and could never get real comfortable on it, even 
after ten years. I tried a Selle Anatomica and now have them on all three 
of my bikes. Once they get a little beausage, they look better. I only had 
the sides of the saddle bother me in technical single track. After an hour, 
the inside of my thighs got a touch irritated, but not enough to cancel the 
blissful comfort the rest of the time. I had to set my saddles a little 
nose high, more than the Brooks. It supports like a hammock. By tilting the 
nose a little high, you sit in the sweet spot, with no damage to the junk. 
The saddle should be set a little on the loose side. Not loose, but not 
drum tight. This will prevent over stretching. I'd say try oneI just 
bought another to replace the old long rail SA's (that were crap).  

I haven't tried any other leather cutout saddle, so. I have a bias. 

Claytonious Q

Bend

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Les Lammers]

I recently got the X-Series https://selleanatomica.com/products/x-series The 
edges are not rolled but I'll drill holes and use zip ties. Years ago I 
sent them a B-17 and they did a cutout. I still have it and like it but the 
Sell has longer rails and is more adjustable. You do get a 30 money back 
policy. YMMV.

On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 6:52:30 AM UTC-5, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> I have Selle Anatomicas on all 4 of my bikes. RBW used to sell them and 
> that was where my first one came from. They do stretch at first and then 
> they stop if you follow the instructions and don't over tension. They also 
> sell a longer replacement bolt for extra life on a worn saddle. Their comfy 
> from day 1 but do not wear as long as a Brooks. You can drill them and 
> stitch the edges together, but the edges have never bothered me.

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[RBW] Re: Holiday Saddle question

[Eric Karnes]

I purchased a Selle Anatomica last year. I was pretty disappointed at the 
finish quality when I took it out of the box. Much lower quality leather 
and general detailing than the cheaper Brooks B-17 it replaced. But I 
figured a saddle was meant to be saddled, so I wouldn't be seeing it much 
anyway. So installed it and it was fantastic...for about a week. And then 
it sagged (and I tightened the bolt) and sagged (and I tightened the bolt 
again). This went on and on until eventually I just gave up on it. It was 
surprising as I'm not super heavy. About 160lbs, so well below the 
recommended rider weight limit for the X Series.

I replaced it with a C-17 Carved and have been very happy with it. It 
doesn't completely disappear under me the way the SA did (for the week it 
worked properly), but it's the best overall saddle I've used. That said, 
some people can't stand it. Saddles more than anything seem to be a 
personal preference. So just my two cents...

Eric





On Sunday, December 4, 2016 at 1:22:48 AM UTC-5, Surlyprof wrote:
>
> I received an email from Selle Anatomica that all their saddles were on 
> sale for $99 during the holidays.  I had thought about the X-series in the 
> past to replace my B17.  The goal was to get a saddle with a cutout. 
>  Others I had been considering were the Brooks C17 Carved and the Rivet 
> Pearl.  I like the Rivet and don't know much about the C17 carved but was 
> wondering if the SA was worth trying while it is $50-60 less.  I've read 
> people raving about the Rivet saddles here but also thought I remember some 
> people complaining about the SA saddles sagging pretty quickly.  Any 
> thoughts comparing these 3 choices?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

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