[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Michael Hechmer]

Will, I agree about the risks with lips (can we drop the pejorative 
adjective) but if you look back at my post on 4/23 you will find a link to 
a product that completely solves this problem.

Thanks for the LAB link, it's a helpful addition to the thread.

Michael

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 9:40:25 PM UTC-4, William deRosset wrote:
>
> Dear Kevin,
>
> the LAB (used to be the LAW) recommends an "ABC quick check" before any 
> ride
>
>
> http://bikeleague.org/content/basic-bike-check-just-remember-abc-quick-check
>
> The "Quick" is a check of your wheel retention. 
>
> I'll tell you how I do the basics of the check: I pick up the bike a foot 
> from the ground and drop it. Snap the brakes, and in the first few feet of 
> riding, shift. Investigate anything weird. Kids loved this instruction when 
> we taught them the technique.. 
>
> In my experience, lawyer lips actually increase the probability that I 
> mess up the wheels, as it requires that I readjust the QR every time I pull 
> a wheel, and the wheel can still fall out of the forks 
>
> Now, through axles solve the "safety hazard" of qr's, at the expense of 
> about the same amount of time as a lawyer lipp'd quick-release and a touch 
> of weight. 
>
> Cheers,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 4:41:34 AM UTC-6, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for all the insights and kind words.  One of the enlightening 
>> aspects of having an accident like this is finding out the so many others 
>> have had variations of the same experience.  Now pushing 60, I figure I've 
>> been on and off bikes for most of the past 50 years, and this was the first 
>> time I'd ever taken a serious spill; I thought others had had the same run 
>> of luck but, clearly, it's been me who's been beating the odds all this 
>> time.  Makes me feel kinda special :).
>> I was also surprised to find that my Rivs don't have the lawyer lips that 
>> I thought they must.  Well, it just means that I'll be particularly careful 
>> to ensure that the QRs are tight before heading out.
>> All the best,
>> Kevin
>>
>> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 6:15:58 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> Kevin, if you feel safer with lips on your dropouts then I would 
>>> recommend this product https://www.1upusa.com/product-quicknutblack.html 
>>> which will simplify retightening, and insure a consistent result.  I use 
>>> one on the tandem because it goes on a roof rack & hence has the front 
>>> wheel on & off a lot.
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:

 This is on-topic.
 Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes. 
  Over the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) 
 Peugeot PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac 
 brakes, Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden 
 voyage two days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached 
 a 
 slight curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next 
 memories are a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the 
 pavement, then being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount 
 Vernon bike and running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my 
 broken bike and bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was 
 able to walk the bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and 
 called 
 my wife to come pick me up.
 Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
 happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel 
 got 
 loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
 the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less 
 fork 
 into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
 (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
 protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
 my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
 headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
 my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
 God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
 scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over 
 completely 
 during the crash).
 Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
 wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
 those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents 
 like 
 this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
 have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
 head to match the relatively light stuff on 

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[William deRosset]

Dear Kevin,

the LAB (used to be the LAW) recommends an "ABC quick check" before any ride

http://bikeleague.org/content/basic-bike-check-just-remember-abc-quick-check

The "Quick" is a check of your wheel retention. 

I'll tell you how I do the basics of the check: I pick up the bike a foot 
from the ground and drop it. Snap the brakes, and in the first few feet of 
riding, shift. Investigate anything weird. Kids loved this instruction when 
we taught them the technique.. 

In my experience, lawyer lips actually increase the probability that I mess 
up the wheels, as it requires that I readjust the QR every time I pull a 
wheel, and the wheel can still fall out of the forks 

Now, through axles solve the "safety hazard" of qr's, at the expense of 
about the same amount of time as a lawyer lipp'd quick-release and a touch 
of weight. 

Cheers,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 4:41:34 AM UTC-6, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the insights and kind words.  One of the enlightening 
> aspects of having an accident like this is finding out the so many others 
> have had variations of the same experience.  Now pushing 60, I figure I've 
> been on and off bikes for most of the past 50 years, and this was the first 
> time I'd ever taken a serious spill; I thought others had had the same run 
> of luck but, clearly, it's been me who's been beating the odds all this 
> time.  Makes me feel kinda special :).
> I was also surprised to find that my Rivs don't have the lawyer lips that 
> I thought they must.  Well, it just means that I'll be particularly careful 
> to ensure that the QRs are tight before heading out.
> All the best,
> Kevin
>
> On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 6:15:58 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Kevin, if you feel safer with lips on your dropouts then I would 
>> recommend this product https://www.1upusa.com/product-quicknutblack.html 
>> which will simplify retightening, and insure a consistent result.  I use 
>> one on the tandem because it goes on a roof rack & hence has the front 
>> wheel on & off a lot.
>> Michael
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>>>
>>> This is on-topic.
>>> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes. 
>>>  Over the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) 
>>> Peugeot PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac 
>>> brakes, Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden 
>>> voyage two days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a 
>>> slight curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next 
>>> memories are a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the 
>>> pavement, then being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount 
>>> Vernon bike and running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my 
>>> broken bike and bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was 
>>> able to walk the bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called 
>>> my wife to come pick me up.
>>> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
>>> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
>>> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
>>> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
>>> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
>>> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
>>> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
>>> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
>>> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
>>> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
>>> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
>>> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
>>> during the crash).
>>> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
>>> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
>>> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
>>> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
>>> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
>>> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
>>> Lesson learned.
>>> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 
>>> 56cm PX-10?
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at 

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Abcyclehank]

Mike I will take your Pitlocks.

Ryan Hankinson
Muskegon, MI
(616)928-4226

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Mike in WA]

And I'm happy to sell mine on the cheap! Really. $47 shipped for a 
wheels/seatpost set with one key. 

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 11:19:16 AM UTC-7, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> If you are in the market for new skewers I recommend Pitlocks. Might as 
> well while you are at it.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Lungimsam]

Vince @ Rivbike also said Pitlocks are fine for non-lawyer lipped 
bikes. Just as good as modern skewers.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Kevin Lindsey]

Thanks for all the insights and kind words.  One of the enlightening 
aspects of having an accident like this is finding out the so many others 
have had variations of the same experience.  Now pushing 60, I figure I've 
been on and off bikes for most of the past 50 years, and this was the first 
time I'd ever taken a serious spill; I thought others had had the same run 
of luck but, clearly, it's been me who's been beating the odds all this 
time.  Makes me feel kinda special :).
I was also surprised to find that my Rivs don't have the lawyer lips that I 
thought they must.  Well, it just means that I'll be particularly careful 
to ensure that the QRs are tight before heading out.
All the best,
Kevin

On Saturday, April 23, 2016 at 6:15:58 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Kevin, if you feel safer with lips on your dropouts then I would recommend 
> this product https://www.1upusa.com/product-quicknutblack.html which will 
> simplify retightening, and insure a consistent result.  I use one on the 
> tandem because it goes on a roof rack & hence has the front wheel on & off 
> a lot.
> Michael
>
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>>
>> This is on-topic.
>> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over 
>> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
>> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes, 
>> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two 
>> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
>> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
>> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
>> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
>> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
>> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the 
>> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come 
>> pick me up.
>> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
>> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
>> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
>> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
>> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
>> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
>> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
>> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
>> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
>> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
>> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
>> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
>> during the crash).
>> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
>> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
>> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
>> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
>> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
>> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
>> Lesson learned.
>> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm 
>> PX-10?
>> Kevin
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Michael Hechmer]

Kevin, if you feel safer with lips on your dropouts then I would recommend 
this product https://www.1upusa.com/product-quicknutblack.html which will 
simplify retightening, and insure a consistent result.  I use one on the 
tandem because it goes on a roof rack & hence has the front wheel on & off 
a lot.
Michael

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> This is on-topic.
> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over 
> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes, 
> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two 
> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the 
> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come 
> pick me up.
> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
> during the crash).
> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
> Lesson learned.
> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm 
> PX-10?
> Kevin
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Lungimsam]

Though I would not use them on horizontal dropouts. I think I read that on 
UrbanBikeTech website's FAQ 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Lungimsam]

Peter White cycles says Pitlocks are fine for bikes without lawyers' lips 
and that they are as effective as any modern skewer.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Joe Broach]

Here's hoping you heal up quick, Kevin! I once pulled my old Miyata off a
fork-mount car rack, rode about 3 miles including a steep 30+ mi/hr
descent, lifted the bike to get up the front steps and...the wheel dropped
out. No lawyer lips and bolt on axle, so I must have just slipped the wheel
in and never tightened the axle nuts. A QR at least would've given me a
visual clue after I hopped on. Sheesh!

That said, I disagree with a couple of other posters...

Michael H. wrote:

> Do not take your QR for granted.  Check it.  Make sure it is tight.
> Replace old QR's with solid new ones - Ultegra, Paul's, PW.  Yes they are
> expensive, but then so are good brakes & tires and none of us would ride a
> bike with a worn front tire or flimsy brake.


​In tens of thousands of miles, I've never had a QR loosen up or fail​. I
wouldn't hesitate to use an old QR that works smoothly, and I don't worry
about re-checking (on a bike with rim brakes, anyways). The internal cam QR
is amazingly reliable technology, in my experience.

A shy poster wrote:

> If you are in the market for new skewers I recommend Pitlocks. Might as
> well while you are at it.


​I'm not sure I'd use Pitlocks without lawyer lips. They don't clamp
anywhere near as tightly as a QR (just try one with horizontal dropouts​).
Probably fine but slimmer margin for error. I wish someone would figure out
a clever anti-theft internal cam QR (that doesn't involve turning
 the bike upside down to release).

​Again, glad you're mostly OK, Kevin. Also, if the fork's not kinked, I'd
take it by a (great) LBS or framebuilder and see if they can't just
re-align it for you. It might be fine.

Best,
joe
pdx or​


​


On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> Kevin I am sorry to read about your accident, the damage to your bike &
> body.  I too have gone over the handlebars, actually a couple of times in
> 45 years of riding.  Once from hitting a large rock  and another when my
> wheel went into a sewer grate.  I have also had the experience of
> discovering my front QR had been pried open during a mass pit stop on a
> club ride.  I do think there is a better, more important lesson in this
> than going to lawyer lips, which seem to me to complicate QR setup and
> increase the risk of failure, all be it not catastrophic failure.  Do not
> take your QR for granted.  Check it.  Make sure it is tight.  Replace old
> QR's with solid new ones - Ultegra, Paul's, PW.  Yes they are expensive,
> but then so are good brakes & tires and none of us would ride a bike with a
> worn front tire or flimsy brake.
>
> Take some time; let your body heal; get back in the saddle.
>
> blessings,
> michael
>
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
>> This is on-topic.
>> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over
>> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot
>> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes,
>> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two
>> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight
>> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are
>> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then
>> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and
>> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and
>> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the
>> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come
>> pick me up.
>> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what
>> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got
>> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of
>> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork
>> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands
>> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately
>> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that
>> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight
>> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of
>> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank
>> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply
>> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely
>> during the crash).
>> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident
>> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with
>> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like
>> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would
>> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my
>> head to match 

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Lungimsam]

If you are in the market for new skewers I recommend Pitlocks. Might as well 
while you are at it.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Edwin W]

Michael,

I take offense at that! I often ride bikes with worn front tires and flimsy 
brakes!

I love the look of those Paul skewers. So elegant.

Edwin

On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 8:22:54 AM UTC-5, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Kevin I am sorry to read about your accident, the damage to your bike & 
> body.  I too have gone over the handlebars, actually a couple of times in 
> 45 years of riding.  Once from hitting a large rock  and another when my 
> wheel went into a sewer grate.  I have also had the experience of 
> discovering my front QR had been pried open during a mass pit stop on a 
> club ride.  I do think there is a better, more important lesson in this 
> than going to lawyer lips, which seem to me to complicate QR setup and 
> increase the risk of failure, all be it not catastrophic failure.  Do not 
> take your QR for granted.  Check it.  Make sure it is tight.  Replace old 
> QR's with solid new ones - Ultegra, Paul's, PW.  Yes they are expensive, 
> but then so are good brakes & tires and none of us would ride a bike with a 
> worn front tire or flimsy brake.
>
> Take some time; let your body heal; get back in the saddle.
>
> blessings,
> michael
>
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>>
>> This is on-topic.
>> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over 
>> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
>> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes, 
>> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two 
>> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
>> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
>> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
>> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
>> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
>> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the 
>> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come 
>> pick me up.
>> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
>> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
>> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
>> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
>> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
>> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
>> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
>> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
>> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
>> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
>> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
>> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
>> during the crash).
>> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
>> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
>> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
>> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
>> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
>> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
>> Lesson learned.
>> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm 
>> PX-10?
>> Kevin
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Michael Hechmer]

Kevin I am sorry to read about your accident, the damage to your bike & 
body.  I too have gone over the handlebars, actually a couple of times in 
45 years of riding.  Once from hitting a large rock  and another when my 
wheel went into a sewer grate.  I have also had the experience of 
discovering my front QR had been pried open during a mass pit stop on a 
club ride.  I do think there is a better, more important lesson in this 
than going to lawyer lips, which seem to me to complicate QR setup and 
increase the risk of failure, all be it not catastrophic failure.  Do not 
take your QR for granted.  Check it.  Make sure it is tight.  Replace old 
QR's with solid new ones - Ultegra, Paul's, PW.  Yes they are expensive, 
but then so are good brakes & tires and none of us would ride a bike with a 
worn front tire or flimsy brake.

Take some time; let your body heal; get back in the saddle.

blessings,
michael

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> This is on-topic.
> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over 
> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes, 
> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two 
> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the 
> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come 
> pick me up.
> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
> during the crash).
> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
> Lesson learned.
> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm 
> PX-10?
> Kevin
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Deacon Patrick]

Glad you're doing so well, Kevin! You may have more concussion than you 
realize (or than doctors yet know how to identify). Helmets an lessen the 
impact, but do nothing to change the dramatic speed of the head stopping 
suddenly, so coup-contrecoup still happens (think how much jello dropped in 
a helmet/bowl would slam from side to side and you get the idea) to the 
same degree. There's no way around those darn laws of physics.

Pay attention to if the "world just seems harder" over the next eight 
weeks. Needing more sleep, taking longer to think things, more headaches, 
slower reaction times, etc. If you notice those things, let me know and I 
can recommend some things I've found helpful in recovering/healing.

Heal well and enjoy when you get back on the bike!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 6:22:15 PM UTC-6, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> This is on-topic.
> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over 
> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes, 
> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two 
> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the 
> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come 
> pick me up.
> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
> during the crash).
> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
> Lesson learned.
> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm 
> PX-10?
> Kevin
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Mark Reimer]

Glad you're ok, I've got friends who've had the identical accident.

My Atlantis also has no lawyer tabs. Actually almost all my bikes don't 
come to think of it. Good luck on the fork hunt.

On Thursday, April 21, 2016 at 7:27:20 AM UTC-5, Skenry wrote:
>
> I'm not 1000% sure on this, but regarding the lawyer lips.I know 
> that they are required on bicycles sold in the United States, 
> Rivendell sells frames.They can sell you more parts and build them 
> up, but it is sold as a frame. 
> Scott 
>
> On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:15 AM, WETH  
> wrote: 
> > Kevin, 
> > Glad you are relatively unscathed from the experience. 
> > Take care, 
> > Erl 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote: 
> >> 
> >> This is on-topic. 
> >> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes. 
>  Over 
> >> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
> >> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac 
> brakes, 
> >> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage 
> two 
> >> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
> curb 
> >> and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
> a 
> >> flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
> being 
> >> surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
> running 
> >> trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
> bleeding 
> >> knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the bike 
> about 
> >> three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come pick me 
> up. 
> >> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
> >> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel 
> got 
> >> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out 
> of the 
> >> left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
> into 
> >> the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
> >> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
> protected 
> >> by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that my 
> wrist is 
> >> not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight headache 
> I've 
> >> had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of my fork is 
> >> permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank God, my 
> bike 
> >> is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply scored and 
> >> which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely during 
> the 
> >> crash). 
> >> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
> >> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are 
> with 
> >> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents 
> like 
> >> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I 
> would 
> >> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
> head 
> >> to match the relatively light stuff on my face. 
> >> Lesson learned. 
> >> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 
> 56cm 
> >> PX-10? 
> >> Kevin 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[Scott Henry]

I'm not 1000% sure on this, but regarding the lawyer lips.I know
that they are required on bicycles sold in the United States,
Rivendell sells frames.They can sell you more parts and build them
up, but it is sold as a frame.
Scott

On Thu, Apr 21, 2016 at 7:15 AM, WETH  wrote:
> Kevin,
> Glad you are relatively unscathed from the experience.
> Take care,
> Erl
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>>
>> This is on-topic.
>> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over
>> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot
>> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes,
>> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two
>> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight curb
>> and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are a
>> flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then being
>> surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and running
>> trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and bleeding
>> knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the bike about
>> three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come pick me up.
>> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what
>> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got
>> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of the
>> left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork into
>> the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands
>> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately protected
>> by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that my wrist is
>> not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight headache I've
>> had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of my fork is
>> permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank God, my bike
>> is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply scored and
>> which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely during the
>> crash).
>> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident
>> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with
>> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like
>> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would
>> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my head
>> to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
>> Lesson learned.
>> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm
>> PX-10?
>> Kevin
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[WETH]

Kevin,
Glad you are relatively unscathed from the experience.
Take care,
Erl

On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 8:22:15 PM UTC-4, Kevin Lindsey wrote:
>
> This is on-topic.
> Aside from being a Riv fanatic, I also love old steel racing bikes.  Over 
> the past three months, I rebuilt a 1972 (i.e. pre-lawyer lips) Peugeot 
> PX-10, using all original equipment (Simplex transmission, Mafac brakes, 
> Campy hubs, Brooks Swift, etc.) and took it out for its maiden voyage two 
> days ago.  On my way back from the 40-mile jaunt, I approached a slight 
> curb and jerked the front wheel up a bit to clear it.  My next memories are 
> a flash of me going over the handlebars and hitting the pavement, then 
> being surrounded by concerned runners (I was on the Mount Vernon bike and 
> running trail in Alexandria, Virginia) tut-tutting at my broken bike and 
> bleeding knees, shoulder, and face.  Fortunately, I was able to walk the 
> bike about three miles to the nearest bike shop and called my wife to come 
> pick me up.
> Looking at the bike and my injuries later that evening, I believe what 
> happened was this: the old Campy quick release skewer on my front wheel got 
> loose and, by jerking the bike up at the curb, I pulled the wheel out of 
> the left fork, causing the wheel to pop off, digging my now wheel-less fork 
> into the pavement, and flipping me for a 180.  I hit on my knees and hands 
> (fortunately protected by riding gloves), and my head (fortunately 
> protected by a now-gashed helmet).  I will eventually heal (assuming that 
> my wrist is not actually broken, but only banged up, and that the slight 
> headache I've had since will eventually dissipate), but the right tine of 
> my fork is permanently bent at about a 15 degree angle.  Otherwise, thank 
> God, my bike is almost unscathed (except for the Brooks, which was deeply 
> scored and which led me to conclude that I flipped the bike over completely 
> during the crash).
> Although we often grouse about lawyer lips and helmets, this accident 
> wouldn't have happened on my Hunq or Bleriot, graced as they both are with 
> those annoying lips demanded by liability lawyers to prevent incidents like 
> this.  Also, if I hadn't been wearing my helmet, it's likely that I would 
> have had a full-blown concussion, not to mention a deep road rash on my 
> head to match the relatively light stuff on my face.
> Lesson learned.
> In the meantime, does anyone out there have a spare white fork for a 56cm 
> PX-10?
> Kevin
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[RBW] Re: Lawyers lips and helmets (or: WTB - Peugeot PX-10 fork)

[islaysteve]

Right, My 51 Bleriot doesn't have them either.  I was wondering how RBW got 
away with that, or is (was) it voluntary? I'm pretty sure my 1994 steel 
road bike had them.  Interesting given Grant's Blug posting not so long ago 
about getting sued.  Glad your injuries are minor, Kevin, and thanks for 
posting this.  Steve


On Wednesday, April 20, 2016 at 11:07:40 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Sorry to hear you had an accident. Hope all is well and you heal up 
> quickly and are back riding again soon.
>
> Maybe check out the noggin with the doc  just to be sure all is ok.
>
> Also, double check your skewers on your Bleriot, because I don't 
> think Bleriots have lawyers' lips. At least my 55 didn't and my 53 
> doesn't!! I was thinking about checking mine today. Good reminder. 
> Hopefully will double check mine tomorrow. Here is my 53:
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.