Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-17 Thread Reed Kennedy
Following up on the Great Roadeo Tubing Debate:

I've been using a piece of industrial testing equipment to measure wall
thickness in bike frames. Last weekend I was fortunate enough to measure a
Roadeo, Rambouillet, A. Homer Hilsen, and Hunqapillar all in similar sizes.
(Thanks to Ben Miller!)

Results are here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XeS2nJhBPSDRbqgG1-F2VOI_vK1QZnZmysARDJWyGps/edit?usp=sharing

Short version: The Roadeo is lighter of tube than the Hilsen, with the main
difference being the top tube. However, the 61cm version I measured was not
built with 6/4/6 tubing. Interestingly, the 64cm Rambouillet was almost as
thin / light, but the Roadeo was just a touch thinner.

If anyone around the SF Bay Area has a smaller Roadeo I'd be excited to
measure it. Or, frankly, any other Riv!


Best,
Reed

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:24 AM Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> This is an e-mail exchange I had with Mark at Riv a few years back. I
> think it s his way of telling me that the the ultra lightweight tubing is
> in the smaller sized Roadeos only. YMMV.
>
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
>
>
> In sizes 59cm and up, the tube spec is pretty similar between the Roadeo
> and Hilsen.  So, the main difference with probably come from lighter
> components and smaller volume tires, resulting in a more spirited ride
> feel. This along with slight geometry differences would differentiate the
> two models.
>
>
>
> Any other questions, let me know.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Campbell,Brian D.
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 12:22pm
> To: "m...@rivbike.com" 
> Subject: Roadeo or Hilsen
>
> Mark,
>
>
>
> Hi. I spoke with Will and he suggested an e-mail to you. I ride a 61cm AHH
> (really like it) but am finding I am doing more and more riding where I am
> focused on riding by itself, not carrying things or commuting per se. I was
> considering a Roadeo (also in 61cm or perhaps 59cm size, I can fit both per
> Riv’s sizing method 87cm PB height)) and aside from rear spacing, shifter
> mounts, tires size and slight front end geometry difference on the Roadeo,
> is there a meaningful difference in the tubing types between the two
> frames? If yes, could you let me know what they might be?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brian
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-04 Thread Reed Kennedy
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 2:24 PM Kainalu V.  wrote:

> In jestish, so yes, kiddingly not kidding. And your friend's bike rules!
> What's the dims on that monster?
>

If memory serves it's a 67cm frame with 650B wheels. I think he said his
PBH is 101cm!


Cheers,
Reed

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-04 Thread Kainalu V.
In jestish, so yes, kiddingly not kidding. And your friend's bike rules!  
What's the dims on that monster? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-04 Thread Brian Campbell
Reed,

I arrived at the same conclusion. Although, I did pick up a 62cm c-t Riv 
Custom from 2001 to scratch the super light weight itch! No provisions for 
racks and it will fit 32mm tires and fenders. It is a very nice ride.

On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 4:08:39 PM UTC-4, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Dang, thanks so much Brian! I have learned so much by derailing this poor 
> thread!
>
> As someone who just picked up a 65cm Hilsen and then found himself 
> wondering if he'd be better served by a Roadeo the info from Mark you 
> shared is music to my ears.
>
> The Hilsen fits better, takes a bigger tire, and has more BB drop, all 
> things I like. Yet I was thinking of giving it all up for a lighter-tubed 
> Roadeo! Glad to know there's not much improvement to be had, at least in my 
> size.
>
> Even better, I already have the Hilsen.
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:24 AM Brian Campbell  > wrote:
>
>> This is an e-mail exchange I had with Mark at Riv a few years back. I 
>> think it s his way of telling me that the the ultra lightweight tubing is 
>> in the smaller sized Roadeos only. YMMV.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hi Brian,
>>
>>  
>>
>> In sizes 59cm and up, the tube spec is pretty similar between the Roadeo 
>> and Hilsen.  So, the main difference with probably come from lighter 
>> components and smaller volume tires, resulting in a more spirited ride 
>> feel. This along with slight geometry differences would differentiate the 
>> two models.  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Any other questions, let me know.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>  
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Campbell,Brian D.
>> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 12:22pm
>> To: "ma...@rivbike.com " >
>> Subject: Roadeo or Hilsen
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Hi. I spoke with Will and he suggested an e-mail to you. I ride a 61cm 
>> AHH (really like it) but am finding I am doing more and more riding where I 
>> am focused on riding by itself, not carrying things or commuting per se. I 
>> was considering a Roadeo (also in 61cm or perhaps 59cm size, I can fit both 
>> per Riv’s sizing method 87cm PB height)) and aside from rear spacing, 
>> shifter mounts, tires size and slight front end geometry difference on the 
>> Roadeo, is there a meaningful difference in the tubing types between the 
>> two frames? If yes, could you let me know what they might be?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>  
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-04 Thread Reed Kennedy
Dang, thanks so much Brian! I have learned so much by derailing this poor
thread!

As someone who just picked up a 65cm Hilsen and then found himself
wondering if he'd be better served by a Roadeo the info from Mark you
shared is music to my ears.

The Hilsen fits better, takes a bigger tire, and has more BB drop, all
things I like. Yet I was thinking of giving it all up for a lighter-tubed
Roadeo! Glad to know there's not much improvement to be had, at least in my
size.

Even better, I already have the Hilsen.


Best,
Reed

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:24 AM Brian Campbell 
wrote:

> This is an e-mail exchange I had with Mark at Riv a few years back. I
> think it s his way of telling me that the the ultra lightweight tubing is
> in the smaller sized Roadeos only. YMMV.
>
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
>
>
> In sizes 59cm and up, the tube spec is pretty similar between the Roadeo
> and Hilsen.  So, the main difference with probably come from lighter
> components and smaller volume tires, resulting in a more spirited ride
> feel. This along with slight geometry differences would differentiate the
> two models.
>
>
>
> Any other questions, let me know.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Campbell,Brian D.
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 12:22pm
> To: "m...@rivbike.com" 
> Subject: Roadeo or Hilsen
>
> Mark,
>
>
>
> Hi. I spoke with Will and he suggested an e-mail to you. I ride a 61cm AHH
> (really like it) but am finding I am doing more and more riding where I am
> focused on riding by itself, not carrying things or commuting per se. I was
> considering a Roadeo (also in 61cm or perhaps 59cm size, I can fit both per
> Riv’s sizing method 87cm PB height)) and aside from rear spacing, shifter
> mounts, tires size and slight front end geometry difference on the Roadeo,
> is there a meaningful difference in the tubing types between the two
> frames? If yes, could you let me know what they might be?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Brian
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-04 Thread Brian Campbell
This is an e-mail exchange I had with Mark at Riv a few years back. I think 
it s his way of telling me that the the ultra lightweight tubing is in the 
smaller sized Roadeos only. YMMV.

 

Hi Brian,

 

In sizes 59cm and up, the tube spec is pretty similar between the Roadeo 
and Hilsen.  So, the main difference with probably come from lighter 
components and smaller volume tires, resulting in a more spirited ride 
feel. This along with slight geometry differences would differentiate the 
two models.  

 

Any other questions, let me know.

 

Mark

 

-Original Message-
From: "Campbell,Brian D.
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2016 12:22pm
To: "m...@rivbike.com" 
Subject: Roadeo or Hilsen

Mark,

 

Hi. I spoke with Will and he suggested an e-mail to you. I ride a 61cm AHH 
(really like it) but am finding I am doing more and more riding where I am 
focused on riding by itself, not carrying things or commuting per se. I was 
considering a Roadeo (also in 61cm or perhaps 59cm size, I can fit both per 
Riv’s sizing method 87cm PB height)) and aside from rear spacing, shifter 
mounts, tires size and slight front end geometry difference on the Roadeo, 
is there a meaningful difference in the tubing types between the two 
frames? If yes, could you let me know what they might be?

 

Thanks,

 

Brian

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-04 Thread Kainalu V.
Just keep adding tubes until it's perfect!
-Kai
BKNY

On Tuesday, September 4, 2018 at 1:09:57 AM UTC-4, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Yeah, I’ve never heard of a frame that thin gauge in a size that big. 
> Probably because it won’t work well. But nobody seems to know for sure as 
> nobody I’ve talked to has tried it. 
>
> I think I know someone who’d build me such a thing, I’m just stalling 
> because I’m hesitant to spend money (and ask a builder to spend their time) 
> on an experiment that might end up unrideable and get recycled. 
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 9:45 PM Ian A > 
> wrote:
>
>> Reed: A 747 standard tubing frame in that size would be unusual. I wonder 
>> if Norther/Lyon would do a one-off for you? Wouldn't hurt to ask  
>> https://northercycles.squarespace.com/jeff-lyon-colaboration/
>>
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Reed Kennedy
Yeah, I’ve never heard of a frame that thin gauge in a size that big.
Probably because it won’t work well. But nobody seems to know for sure as
nobody I’ve talked to has tried it.

I think I know someone who’d build me such a thing, I’m just stalling
because I’m hesitant to spend money (and ask a builder to spend their time)
on an experiment that might end up unrideable and get recycled.


Best,
Reed

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 9:45 PM Ian A  wrote:

> Reed: A 747 standard tubing frame in that size would be unusual. I wonder
> if Norther/Lyon would do a one-off for you? Wouldn't hurt to ask
> https://northercycles.squarespace.com/jeff-lyon-colaboration/
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Ian A
Reed: A 747 standard tubing frame in that size would be unusual. I wonder if 
Norther/Lyon would do a one-off for you? Wouldn't hurt to ask  
https://northercycles.squarespace.com/jeff-lyon-colaboration/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Lum Gim Fong
Based in my experience with os rivtubing bikes:
Bleriot -8/5/8- excellent on flats and downhills/bogs down going uphill. Both 
53 and 55cm frames.
Sam Hillborne-same exact ride as Bleriot. 52cm blue frame.
Rambouillet- 8/5/8 but thinner walled stays and ST than Sam and Bleriot. Alot 
easier uphill than Bleriot and Sam. Excellent on flats and downhills.
Roadeo-excellent downhill/flats/way easier uphills never bogs down. 6/4/6 53 cm 
frame

YMMV depending on tubing used for the bigger frames.
The Rambouillet is definitely one of the faster rivbikes and most beautiful to 
my eye.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Reed Kennedy
On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 8:22 PM Ian A  wrote:

> Reed wrote: "
>
> I'm still sorta stunned Grant spec'd anything with tubing that thin, but
> there it is in black and white. Sorry I doubted you!"
>
> Bear in mind, the tubing referenced is OS tubing. The equivalent would be
> somehere between 858 and 969 in standard "skinny" tubing. You might also
> verify the tubing used on the larger sizes.
>
> Apologies if the above info was obvious. Just wanted to mention it.
>

A very good point, Ian. I "knew" that, but sure wasn't remembering it
during this conversation. The Roadeo I test-rode at Riv definitely felt
more similar to my 9/6/9 standard diameter bikes. So subjective though!

I remain tempted to beg some poor frame builder to make 200lbs me a 64cm
7/4/7 standard diameter frame, just to see what happens.

Maybe that'll be my reward for selling all the bikes I don't ride. ::grin::


Best,
Reed Kennedy
San Francisco, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Ian A
Reed wrote: "

I'm still sorta stunned Grant spec'd anything with tubing that thin, but there 
it is in black and white. Sorry I doubted you!"

Bear in mind, the tubing referenced is OS tubing. The equivalent would be 
somehere between 858 and 969 in standard "skinny" tubing. You might also verify 
the tubing used on the larger sizes. 

Apologies if the above info was obvious. Just wanted to mention it. 

IanA Alberta Canada

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Ian A
Bear in mind, it is OS tubing. Somehere between 858 and 969 in standard 
"skinny" tubing. 

IanA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Reed Kennedy
Dang, good call Lum! Thanks for the interview link, I'm looking forward to
reading through.

I'm still sorta stunned Grant spec'd anything with tubing that thin, but
there it is in black and white. Sorry I doubted you!

I suppose now the question is... Could I get a 63cm to fit? Hmm...


Best,
Reed

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 6:53 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> Reed:
> Scroll down to question #5:
> http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=376
>
> Grant tells all !!! 6/4/6!!!
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Lum Gim Fong
Reed:
Scroll down to question #5:
http://ramblings.cyclofiend.com/?p=376

Grant tells all !!! 6/4/6!!!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Lum Gim Fong
Yes.
In an cyclofiend jim interview Grant said Roadeo 6/.45/6 DT/TT
It is on cycjim’s site.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Jim M.
Mark once showed me the specs they sent to the frame builder for Legolas 
and Roadeo. They have the same tubing for top and seat tubes, fork blades 
and chain stays but I don't remember those thicknesses. The Legolas 
downtube is slightly heavier 
at .7/.5/.7 vs .65/.45/65 for the Roadeo. 

On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 11:51:26 AM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 10:24 AM Lum Gim Fong  > wrote:
>
>> Roadeos are so fast!!!
>> 6/4/6 DT and TT
>>
>
> Lum, I find that hard to believe. Can you support that claim?
>
>
> Best,
> Reed Kennedy
> San Francisco, CA 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Reed Kennedy
On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 10:24 AM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> Roadeos are so fast!!!
> 6/4/6 DT and TT
>

Lum, I find that hard to believe. Can you support that claim?


Best,
Reed Kennedy
San Francisco, CA

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[RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Jock Dewey
Hey, William:

I'm having a little trouble with reply RBW, so will try this.

I'm very interested in your 59 cm ROADEO. Do you have pictures and can you 
tell me a little about it? 

I'll pull trigger quickly if all's right.

Thanks!

BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 12:01:29 PM UTC-4, William! wrote:
>
> Def interested in that Legolas! And a heads up to the rest of you that I 
> will be selling my 59cm Roadeo to fund this .

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[RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Lum Gim Fong
Roadeos are so fast!!!
6/4/6 DT and TT

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[RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Jock Dewey
Hey, William:

I'm very interested in your 59 cm ROADEO. Do you have pictures and can you 
tell me a little about it? 

I'll pull trigger quickly if all's right.

Thanks!

BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 12:01:29 PM UTC-4, William! wrote:
>
> Def interested in that Legolas! And a heads up to the rest of you that I 
> will be selling my 59cm Roadeo to fund this .

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[RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Jock Dewey


On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 2:23:53 PM UTC-4, Forrest wrote:
>
> In the next few weeks I will likely post for sale here (if allowed to) a 
> blue Rambouillet 60cm and a copper (new penny) Legolas 59cm. Ideally both 
> as nearly complete bikes (minus just a few parts). I’d rather not part them 
> out, but we’ll see. Stay tuned for details. Just a heads-up for now. 
>  —Forrest (Iowa City, go Hawkeyes) 
>

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[RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Jock Dewey


On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 2:23:53 PM UTC-4, Forrest wrote:
>
> In the next few weeks I will likely post for sale here (if allowed to) a 
> blue Rambouillet 60cm and a copper (new penny) Legolas 59cm. Ideally both 
> as nearly complete bikes (minus just a few parts). I’d rather not part them 
> out, but we’ll see. Stay tuned for details. Just a heads-up for now. 
>  —Forrest (Iowa City, go Hawkeyes) 
>

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[RBW] Re: Likely FS soon: Rambouillet 60 & Legolas 59

2018-09-03 Thread Jock Dewey


On Saturday, September 1, 2018 at 2:23:53 PM UTC-4, Forrest wrote:
>
> In the next few weeks I will likely post for sale here (if allowed to) a 
> blue Rambouillet 60cm and a copper (new penny) Legolas 59cm. Ideally both 
> as nearly complete bikes (minus just a few parts). I’d rather not part them 
> out, but we’ll see. Stay tuned for details. Just a heads-up for now. 
>  —Forrest (Iowa City, go Hawkeyes) 
>

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