[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
You could make a small change by choosing where the wide and narrow spacers are on the post between the CR720 post mount. Depends on the fork canti posts, but you could try to get the 720's at a slightly narrower stance. Not sure how much it will help with the 720's but I have had it make a noticeable difference on other cantis. Also you could try thinner brake pads (thinlines) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Are you referring to this pdf ? It's current . http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/canti-geometry.pdf On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 1:06:24 PM UTC-4, Johan Larsson wrote: There used to be a quite useful tool - Cantilever Geometry Visual Calculator - Mechanical Advantage in Terms of Yoke Height at http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/ , but unfortunately it's broken now because of some web server configuration or something. You could ask, nicely, on the blog for it to be fixed, I would love to have it functioning again. A link to a paper with nice graphs (screenshot attached) is to be found in the first paragraph on that page. Wide profiles canti brakes have very low mechanical advantage, and it doesn't vary much regarding to (useful) yoke heights. You might want to consider switching brakes to more effective low or medium profile cantilevers. For finding levers better matching those brakes, measure the distance from the center of where the lever turns (the fulcrum?) to where the wire is attached, and try to find a lever with a smaller distance. Johan Larsson, Sweden -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 7:03:31 PM UTC+2, Alan Pickett wrote: Thanks for all the responses - I will fiddle a bit more before plunking down any serious money since I don't have to change anything, but I really appreciate the wisdom and perspective of the group. As I understand is, the CR720s as a high profile brake will certainly have less MA, but I''m still a little confused about how one evaluates mechanical advantage regarding levers - is this what is going on when one refers to short vs long pull? Short pull - road/caliper/centerpull brakes and cantilever brake levers - pulls about 7 mm cable for a full squeeze of the brake lever according to a fast internet search. Long pull - V-brakes and mechanical MTB disc brake levers - pulls about 15 mm cable for a full squeeze of the brake lever according to the same fast internet search. (I'm not sure if those 7 and 15 mm figures are exact, but I guess it's in the ball park.) It's funny, I can visualize the concept of Mechanical advantage best if I imagine the classic see-saw diagram with a fulcrum in the middle and levers of various lengths, but I get totally lost when that translates to straddle yokes, straddle wire angles, and the various points along a brake arm that play a role in determining leverage. The lower the straddle cable, the more mechanical advantage - goes for every cantilever brake you will come across. See the note in my previous post for a see-saw fulcrum analogue in mechanical advantages for levers: For finding levers better matching those brakes, measure the distance from the center of where the lever turns (the fulcrum?) to where the wire is attached, and try to find a lever with a smaller distance. - Brake lever on one side of the fulcrum, and a short distance on the other side for a short pull brake (large mechanical advantage). With a larger distance to the other side you have a long pull brake - moves more cable but have a smaller mechanical advantage, i.e. you need much more force on the brake lever to put as much force on the cable. Sounds like many of you really get results with V Brakes. And Deacon! That straddle yoke is in the stratosphere, at least as far as my bike relates: I moved mine down just above the (fenders) tire. That picture with the high yoke shows a very strange setup, as it minimizes the braking force for an already weak (in-built low mechanical advantage) brake. And remember - for any comparison between effectiveness of different kind of brakes to be useful, you need to use exactly the same brake pads. V-brakes normally uses very thin brake pads that will make the brake feel more solid and direct, even though the braking force and effect would be the same for a cantilever brake with thicker pads that compress more for the same given force. Johan Larsson, Sweden Happy Friday Everybody, Alan On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 7:02:04 AM UTC-4, Alan Pickett wrote: So, before I ponied up for my Hillborne, I purchased a Surly Cross Check about four years ago and completely Rivendellized it, with what at the time amounted to a Riv Build Kit: Albatross bars, Sugino triple, bar-end silver shifters, Tektro CR720 wide profile cantis and the Tektro Eclipse linear pull levers. I never thought much about it, and the brakes have performed over time, and the whole bike treated me well, even during the Ragbrai of 2012, with over 100 degree temperatures most days. Now that I have my side pull hillborne with the lovely bigmouth side pulls and the tektro mountain levers, I find that I really love the smooth, almost buttery action of the levers and the lack of white knuckling required to get modulation out of the brakes, and have started fiddling with my old setup on the Surly. I've lowered the CR720's straddle wire hanger as low as it will go, and have double checked to make sure that the setting on the Eclipse levers is set for non-linear pull brakes (y'all might remember that it had two settings for the cable nipple, depending on the brakes used), but still have a sense of having to really clench the levers to white-knuckle levels to bring the bike to rest. It's not that they've ever failed, and I certainly become used to this set-up whenever I return to the Surly, but do find that I like the action of the side pulls and Mountain levers a lot more - it's like having power brakes vs floor-stompers! So, is this simply a matter of mechanical advantage, and have I likely exhausted my ability to get as much MA out of the cantis and levers, or is there anything I can do to get more leverage? I remember in the description of the CR720s they are described as having a positiveness and crispness, and maybe that is another way of saying less mechanical advantage, and that's just how wide profile canto's behave? I did wonder if I could replace the levers, since it appears that the Eclipse levers were actually
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
The lower the straddle cable, the more mechanical advantage - goes for every cantilever brake you will come across. True in the mathematical sense. Misleading in the practical sense. Wide, low cantilevers like CR720s and M.A.F.A.C. and others don't change much at all with straddle height. Run them high or run them low, they feel about the same. The place where straddle height would make a difference with CR720 is where the straddle is inside the tirewhich causes other problems. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
I'm with Deacon on this. I have 720s on one bike Paul's on another. No comparison. I also agree with his set up. Intuitively, picturing how all levers work, it seems necessary to keep the straddle cable close to 90o to the brake arm. Hence hi profile brake work best with a hi straddle cable (and Paul recommends at least 5 for the neo retros) and shorter cables for low profile brakes like shimano. I owned V brakes briefly and know that some people really like them, but I'm a 200 lb. rider and can lift the rear wheel off the ground when I slam on the neo-retros. I owe em my life and I'm sticking with em. Michael On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 12:32:25 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote: The lower the straddle cable, the more mechanical advantage - goes for every cantilever brake you will come across. True in the mathematical sense. Misleading in the practical sense. Wide, low cantilevers like CR720s and M.A.F.A.C. and others don't change much at all with straddle height. Run them high or run them low, they feel about the same. The place where straddle height would make a difference with CR720 is where the straddle is inside the tirewhich causes other problems. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
On Saturday, June 27, 2015 at 6:32:25 PM UTC+2, Bill Lindsay wrote: The lower the straddle cable, the more mechanical advantage - goes for every cantilever brake you will come across. True in the mathematical sense. Misleading in the practical sense. Wide, low cantilevers like CR720s and M.A.F.A.C. and others don't change much at all with straddle height. Run them high or run them low, they feel about the same. Well, I thought that I had already pointed that out, and didn't want to repeat my self: Wide profiles canti brakes have very low mechanical advantage, and it doesn't vary much regarding to (useful) yoke heights. https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/5R-gKjhClH8/7G9a0SthaBgJ This was a response to how the geometry worked, to avoid the stated confusion - in general yoke height has the largest effect on brake force and feel for cantilever brakes, and it's good to be aware of this simple rule. Johan Larsson, Sweden The place where straddle height would make a difference with CR720 is where the straddle is inside the tirewhich causes other problems. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
I agree with Doug. V-brakes are the way to go. No matter how much time I spend on my Paul canti's they still don't stop as good as my $20 avid v-brakes that I spent all of 3 min setting up. Less clearance for fenders on the v-brakes and tighter pad to rim clearance is the drawback of v-brakes. On a cross check it probably won't be an issue for the fenders though. On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 7:53:07 AM UTC-7, dougP wrote: Alan: BQ had a all things brake issue a few years ago. After reading that, I replaced the very nice looking but only marginally effective narrow profile stock brakes on my Atlantis with the Tektro 720s. While better, they were still unimpressive, especially with a touring load. I fiddled with straddle cable length, etc. When I went to V-brakes (simple, $30 Shimano generic units) brake power and modulation improved remarkably. dougP On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 4:02:04 AM UTC-7, Alan Pickett wrote: So, before I ponied up for my Hillborne, I purchased a Surly Cross Check about four years ago and completely Rivendellized it, with what at the time amounted to a Riv Build Kit: Albatross bars, Sugino triple, bar-end silver shifters, Tektro CR720 wide profile cantis and the Tektro Eclipse linear pull levers. I never thought much about it, and the brakes have performed over time, and the whole bike treated me well, even during the Ragbrai of 2012, with over 100 degree temperatures most days. Now that I have my side pull hillborne with the lovely bigmouth side pulls and the tektro mountain levers, I find that I really love the smooth, almost buttery action of the levers and the lack of white knuckling required to get modulation out of the brakes, and have started fiddling with my old setup on the Surly. I've lowered the CR720's straddle wire hanger as low as it will go, and have double checked to make sure that the setting on the Eclipse levers is set for non-linear pull brakes (y'all might remember that it had two settings for the cable nipple, depending on the brakes used), but still have a sense of having to really clench the levers to white-knuckle levels to bring the bike to rest. It's not that they've ever failed, and I certainly become used to this set-up whenever I return to the Surly, but do find that I like the action of the side pulls and Mountain levers a lot more - it's like having power brakes vs floor-stompers! So, is this simply a matter of mechanical advantage, and have I likely exhausted my ability to get as much MA out of the cantis and levers, or is there anything I can do to get more leverage? I remember in the description of the CR720s they are described as having a positiveness and crispness, and maybe that is another way of saying less mechanical advantage, and that's just how wide profile canto's behave? I did wonder if I could replace the levers, since it appears that the Eclipse levers were actually designed for linear pull brakes and maybe a poor choice? Lastly, bear with me. If there is an exhaustive post buried in the ROB, feel free to point me in the direction. I also realize I may be confusing some terminology above and using language imprecisely. I definitely don't know my applied physics! Hope all are well this morning, Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
I agree with the v-brake comments. Is there a high clearance v-brake that puts the linkage above the fork crown? Rackage and fender'age are definitely more challenging with v-brakes. I have long since given up on the CR720. The Shimano CX70 was much easier to setup. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Have CR720 on my dirt bike, once replaced with kool stop those things stop me on a dime. I'm a fairly light ride, but I still ride on rocky and rooty more technical trails. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Eric - Yes, squeezing hard, not bottoming out. I was thinking about switching levers. happily, it's not a pressing issue (pun was unintended, but I would still like to take credit!), but I will try your suggestion of switching the yoke as the least expensive and involved thing to fiddle with first! Thx. On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 9:22:52 AM UTC-4, Ginz wrote: Alan, The issue is that you are squeezing the lever super hard? It is not bottoming out, correct? Are you using the stock, triangular cable hanger? Try the narrower and inexpensive Dia Compe. This will have the same effect as lowering the hanger (increasing he mechanical advantage.) My suggestion is to simply try a different lever and see what happens. I've done that and found different levers produced different results. Eric -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
I have a similar set up on my Long Haul Trucker and the brakes have always felt solid, in that they do require a fair bit of hand force to really brake hard. Especially with high profile cantilevers, there is a practical limit to how much mechanical advantage you can eek from them, since you can only lower the straddle cable hanger so much before you start impinging on tire/fender/front rack clearance. However, I do like some of the other advantages of the low mechanical advantage setup--namely, that the brake pads don't have to be run super close to the rim and that even as brake pads wear and lever travel increases, I don't risk bottoming out my levers. I also have a fairly strong grip so the hand force required isn't problematic for me. All other things being equal, switching to lower-profile cantilevers would increase the mechanical advantage, since they move the cable anchor points on the brake arms upwards, effectively lowering the straddle cable. The Tektro CR-710 http://www.tektro-usa.com/category.php?productid=1149catid=185subcat=0is similar to the CR-720 but with a lower profile (and with a cool straddle cable barrel adjuster). It does mean you have to run the brake pads closer to the rim, so make sure your rims are true. Since you have convertible pull levers, you could also switch to v-brakes, which provide tons of braking force for not much hand force, although sometimes they present clearance issues with certain tire/fender/rack configurations. Even the $20-30 v-brake options from Shimano or Avid work really well. On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 7:02:04 AM UTC-4, Alan Pickett wrote: So, before I ponied up for my Hillborne, I purchased a Surly Cross Check about four years ago and completely Rivendellized it, with what at the time amounted to a Riv Build Kit: Albatross bars, Sugino triple, bar-end silver shifters, Tektro CR720 wide profile cantis and the Tektro Eclipse linear pull levers. I never thought much about it, and the brakes have performed over time, and the whole bike treated me well, even during the Ragbrai of 2012, with over 100 degree temperatures most days. Now that I have my side pull hillborne with the lovely bigmouth side pulls and the tektro mountain levers, I find that I really love the smooth, almost buttery action of the levers and the lack of white knuckling required to get modulation out of the brakes, and have started fiddling with my old setup on the Surly. I've lowered the CR720's straddle wire hanger as low as it will go, and have double checked to make sure that the setting on the Eclipse levers is set for non-linear pull brakes (y'all might remember that it had two settings for the cable nipple, depending on the brakes used), but still have a sense of having to really clench the levers to white-knuckle levels to bring the bike to rest. It's not that they've ever failed, and I certainly become used to this set-up whenever I return to the Surly, but do find that I like the action of the side pulls and Mountain levers a lot more - it's like having power brakes vs floor-stompers! So, is this simply a matter of mechanical advantage, and have I likely exhausted my ability to get as much MA out of the cantis and levers, or is there anything I can do to get more leverage? I remember in the description of the CR720s they are described as having a positiveness and crispness, and maybe that is another way of saying less mechanical advantage, and that's just how wide profile canto's behave? I did wonder if I could replace the levers, since it appears that the Eclipse levers were actually designed for linear pull brakes and maybe a poor choice? Lastly, bear with me. If there is an exhaustive post buried in the ROB, feel free to point me in the direction. I also realize I may be confusing some terminology above and using language imprecisely. I definitely don't know my applied physics! Hope all are well this morning, Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
I found the Tektro 720s were not ideal for country bike and trail riding. Here's a thread about my squishy brake question: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/tektro$20720/rbw-owners-bunch/2RliNn6jvvo/19wuZgLcS4kJ Here's a photo of how I set it up so it worked the best that it could: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32311885@N07/14506250495/ Ultimately I replaced them with Pauls and love the Paul brakes. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Alan: BQ had a all things brake issue a few years ago. After reading that, I replaced the very nice looking but only marginally effective narrow profile stock brakes on my Atlantis with the Tektro 720s. While better, they were still unimpressive, especially with a touring load. I fiddled with straddle cable length, etc. When I went to V-brakes (simple, $30 Shimano generic units) brake power and modulation improved remarkably. dougP On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 4:02:04 AM UTC-7, Alan Pickett wrote: So, before I ponied up for my Hillborne, I purchased a Surly Cross Check about four years ago and completely Rivendellized it, with what at the time amounted to a Riv Build Kit: Albatross bars, Sugino triple, bar-end silver shifters, Tektro CR720 wide profile cantis and the Tektro Eclipse linear pull levers. I never thought much about it, and the brakes have performed over time, and the whole bike treated me well, even during the Ragbrai of 2012, with over 100 degree temperatures most days. Now that I have my side pull hillborne with the lovely bigmouth side pulls and the tektro mountain levers, I find that I really love the smooth, almost buttery action of the levers and the lack of white knuckling required to get modulation out of the brakes, and have started fiddling with my old setup on the Surly. I've lowered the CR720's straddle wire hanger as low as it will go, and have double checked to make sure that the setting on the Eclipse levers is set for non-linear pull brakes (y'all might remember that it had two settings for the cable nipple, depending on the brakes used), but still have a sense of having to really clench the levers to white-knuckle levels to bring the bike to rest. It's not that they've ever failed, and I certainly become used to this set-up whenever I return to the Surly, but do find that I like the action of the side pulls and Mountain levers a lot more - it's like having power brakes vs floor-stompers! So, is this simply a matter of mechanical advantage, and have I likely exhausted my ability to get as much MA out of the cantis and levers, or is there anything I can do to get more leverage? I remember in the description of the CR720s they are described as having a positiveness and crispness, and maybe that is another way of saying less mechanical advantage, and that's just how wide profile canto's behave? I did wonder if I could replace the levers, since it appears that the Eclipse levers were actually designed for linear pull brakes and maybe a poor choice? Lastly, bear with me. If there is an exhaustive post buried in the ROB, feel free to point me in the direction. I also realize I may be confusing some terminology above and using language imprecisely. I definitely don't know my applied physics! Hope all are well this morning, Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Thanks for all the responses - I will fiddle a bit more before plunking down any serious money since I don't have to change anything, but I really appreciate the wisdom and perspective of the group. As I understand is, the CR720s as a high profile brake will certainly have less MA, but I''m still a little confused about how one evaluates mechanical advantage regarding levers - is this what is going on when one refers to short vs long pull? It's funny, I can visualize the concept of Mechanical advantage best if I imagine the classic see-saw diagram with a fulcrum in the middle and levers of various lengths, but I get totally lost when that translates to straddle yokes, straddle wire angles, and the various points along a brake arm that play a role in determining leverage. Sounds like many of you really get results with V Brakes. And Deacon! That straddle yoke is in the stratosphere, at least as far as my bike relates: I moved mine down just above the (fenders) tire. Happy Friday Everybody, Alan On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 7:02:04 AM UTC-4, Alan Pickett wrote: So, before I ponied up for my Hillborne, I purchased a Surly Cross Check about four years ago and completely Rivendellized it, with what at the time amounted to a Riv Build Kit: Albatross bars, Sugino triple, bar-end silver shifters, Tektro CR720 wide profile cantis and the Tektro Eclipse linear pull levers. I never thought much about it, and the brakes have performed over time, and the whole bike treated me well, even during the Ragbrai of 2012, with over 100 degree temperatures most days. Now that I have my side pull hillborne with the lovely bigmouth side pulls and the tektro mountain levers, I find that I really love the smooth, almost buttery action of the levers and the lack of white knuckling required to get modulation out of the brakes, and have started fiddling with my old setup on the Surly. I've lowered the CR720's straddle wire hanger as low as it will go, and have double checked to make sure that the setting on the Eclipse levers is set for non-linear pull brakes (y'all might remember that it had two settings for the cable nipple, depending on the brakes used), but still have a sense of having to really clench the levers to white-knuckle levels to bring the bike to rest. It's not that they've ever failed, and I certainly become used to this set-up whenever I return to the Surly, but do find that I like the action of the side pulls and Mountain levers a lot more - it's like having power brakes vs floor-stompers! So, is this simply a matter of mechanical advantage, and have I likely exhausted my ability to get as much MA out of the cantis and levers, or is there anything I can do to get more leverage? I remember in the description of the CR720s they are described as having a positiveness and crispness, and maybe that is another way of saying less mechanical advantage, and that's just how wide profile canto's behave? I did wonder if I could replace the levers, since it appears that the Eclipse levers were actually designed for linear pull brakes and maybe a poor choice? Lastly, bear with me. If there is an exhaustive post buried in the ROB, feel free to point me in the direction. I also realize I may be confusing some terminology above and using language imprecisely. I definitely don't know my applied physics! Hope all are well this morning, Alan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Is there a high clearance v-brake that puts the linkage above the fork crown? Here's a link to useful information on specific V-brake arm lengths: http://www.gravelbike.com/?p=3298 As you can see, there is quite a variation from short to long. The shorter ones can be successful with standard road levers. For instance, my wife has TRP CX8.4 with Tiagra levers on her Atlantis with 26 x 1.5 tires. Gobs of clearance between the tire and the brake cable, and good braking. I had 107 mm Shimanos on my Atlantis with 700c x 40 mm tires. On the front, the little rubber boot kept wearing thru on my Nitto mini rack so I replaced the brake with a Tektro @ 102 mm arm length. My bike has Tektro MTB levers with the dual position cable hook-up. Neither of us have fenders but I would have to use at least 107 mm arm maybe even 110 mm arm. I think you'd need to do a lot of measuring figuring sort out fenders. I don't think the canti posts are always in the same place from bike to bike and it would seem specific fenders may also have variations that could affect things. You do see a lot of commuter bikes with both V-brakes fenders to it should be do-able. If it ever rains here in SoCal I may get to find out. dougP On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 8:53:50 AM UTC-7, Ginz wrote: I agree with the v-brake comments. Is there a high clearance v-brake that puts the linkage above the fork crown? Rackage and fender'age are definitely more challenging with v-brakes. I have long since given up on the CR720. The Shimano CX70 was much easier to setup. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Mechanical disadvantage? Seeking joyful braking.
Alan, The issue is that you are squeezing the lever super hard? It is not bottoming out, correct? Are you using the stock, triangular cable hanger? Try the narrower and inexpensive Dia Compe. This will have the same effect as lowering the hanger (increasing he mechanical advantage.) My suggestion is to simply try a different lever and see what happens. I've done that and found different levers produced different results. Eric -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
