Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Jim Whorton]

PS Your 59 Clem looks great, TC.  

On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 1:51:19 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:

> TC, thanks for this suggestion.  I've been looking at the Schwalbe G-Ones 
> on the Riv site, trying to decide between the "Speed" vs. the "Allround."  
> Maybe I will splurge for the more expensive Speeds since you all have 
> talked me out of buying a new bike.  
>
> Jim W
>
> On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 1:14:37 PM UTC-5 tc wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>> Try some *Schwalbe G-One Speed 
>> *' tires with 
>> Schwalbe's Extra Light tubes.  Expensive, but from my experience with diff 
>> tires (from road to knobby) on my 59 Clem H, they are simply excellent.  
>> About as light as you'll get, fast, grippy, no flats yet.  If you go with 
>> the 2-inchers, they'll fit very nicely under the VO fluted fenders.[image: 
>> clemH_59_green_driveside_frontquarter_small.jpg]
>>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 7:20:00 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all.  When I said "lumbering hulk" I should have included myself 
>>> + the bike, not the bike alone.  Peter Fonda looks very serene with his 
>>> arms up in the air, there.  
>>>
>>> Brendonoid, I respect your experience carrying 50 kgs of mail.  I tried 
>>> the Kwick Nines with less air today--got the rear tire down to 15 psi and 
>>> it rolled OK.  Will shop for some new tires though.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:47:05 AM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 If you are going to talk about the flexing of a Rivendell, built from 
 fairly sturdy OS tubing, I think going from a 59cm 700c diamond frame to a 
 52cm 650b diamond frame will affect flex characteristics more than 
 strapping a pipe to the top tube. Extra weight can definitely induce flex, 
 but usually of the undesirable kind. But it also affects steering input 
 and 
 ride feel, depending on where it is on the bike. 

 I believe the Clem Smith Jr. is designed in a way that you don't need 
 to load it down to get a good ride feel.  I have light and flexy bikes, 
 531 
 and Tange Prestige, had a custom L'Avecaise with skinny thinny top tube. 
 While they certainly ride differently than my 650B 52cm Clem L and my 700c 
 56cm Susie, I would not describe either of the Rivs as lumbering, even in 
 comparison. Of course the 2.6" Honchos on the Susie are slower on the road 
 than the 48mm Switchback Hills on *El Clem*. And while I agree 
 handlebars can contribute to how we respond to a bicycle, I love getting 
 up 
 out of the saddle on my Clem and grabbing tight to the Hunt-Wilde finger 
 grips on my Bullmoose Boscos  to sprint over a small rise, or jam up the 
 last meters of a hill. Every bit as satisfying as sprinting on a 531 frame 
 with Maes parallel drop bars! On the other hand, the VO Klunker bars on 
 the 
 Susie are set just a tad too high to be conducive to an out of the saddle 
 full wattage effort. But they have other redeeming qualities!

 [image: easy rider.jpg]
 I 

 On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 8:01:26 PM UTC-5 Mark Schneider wrote:

> I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
> without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
> weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
> Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how 
>> a 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be 
>> perfect, 
>> though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the 
>> reasons 
>> people have said. 
>>
>> Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton 
>> from this forum over the last couple years.
>>
>> DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester 
>> has a great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes 
>> and 
>> gives them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.
>>
>> Jim W
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a 
 good pipe.  

>>> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>>>
>>> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was 
>>> too small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 
>>> 59. 
>>> I support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think 
>>> you'll 
>>> feel a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>>>
>>> jim 

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Jim Whorton]

TC, thanks for this suggestion.  I've been looking at the Schwalbe G-Ones 
on the Riv site, trying to decide between the "Speed" vs. the "Allround."  
Maybe I will splurge for the more expensive Speeds since you all have 
talked me out of buying a new bike.  

Jim W

On Sunday, January 17, 2021 at 1:14:37 PM UTC-5 tc wrote:

> Jim,
> Try some *Schwalbe G-One Speed 
> *' tires with 
> Schwalbe's Extra Light tubes.  Expensive, but from my experience with diff 
> tires (from road to knobby) on my 59 Clem H, they are simply excellent.  
> About as light as you'll get, fast, grippy, no flats yet.  If you go with 
> the 2-inchers, they'll fit very nicely under the VO fluted fenders.[image: 
> clemH_59_green_driveside_frontquarter_small.jpg]
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 7:20:00 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> Thanks all.  When I said "lumbering hulk" I should have included myself + 
>> the bike, not the bike alone.  Peter Fonda looks very serene with his arms 
>> up in the air, there.  
>>
>> Brendonoid, I respect your experience carrying 50 kgs of mail.  I tried 
>> the Kwick Nines with less air today--got the rear tire down to 15 psi and 
>> it rolled OK.  Will shop for some new tires though.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:47:05 AM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>
>>> If you are going to talk about the flexing of a Rivendell, built from 
>>> fairly sturdy OS tubing, I think going from a 59cm 700c diamond frame to a 
>>> 52cm 650b diamond frame will affect flex characteristics more than 
>>> strapping a pipe to the top tube. Extra weight can definitely induce flex, 
>>> but usually of the undesirable kind. But it also affects steering input and 
>>> ride feel, depending on where it is on the bike. 
>>>
>>> I believe the Clem Smith Jr. is designed in a way that you don't need to 
>>> load it down to get a good ride feel.  I have light and flexy bikes, 531 
>>> and Tange Prestige, had a custom L'Avecaise with skinny thinny top tube. 
>>> While they certainly ride differently than my 650B 52cm Clem L and my 700c 
>>> 56cm Susie, I would not describe either of the Rivs as lumbering, even in 
>>> comparison. Of course the 2.6" Honchos on the Susie are slower on the road 
>>> than the 48mm Switchback Hills on *El Clem*. And while I agree 
>>> handlebars can contribute to how we respond to a bicycle, I love getting up 
>>> out of the saddle on my Clem and grabbing tight to the Hunt-Wilde finger 
>>> grips on my Bullmoose Boscos  to sprint over a small rise, or jam up the 
>>> last meters of a hill. Every bit as satisfying as sprinting on a 531 frame 
>>> with Maes parallel drop bars! On the other hand, the VO Klunker bars on the 
>>> Susie are set just a tad too high to be conducive to an out of the saddle 
>>> full wattage effort. But they have other redeeming qualities!
>>>
>>> [image: easy rider.jpg]
>>> I 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 8:01:26 PM UTC-5 Mark Schneider wrote:
>>>
 I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
 without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
 weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
 Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.

 On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how 
> a 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, 
> though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons 
> people have said. 
>
> Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton 
> from this forum over the last couple years.
>
> DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has 
> a great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and 
> gives them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.
>
> Jim W
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
>>> pipe.  
>>>
>> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>>
>> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was 
>> too small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 
>> 59. 
>> I support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll 
>> feel a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>>
>> jim m
>> walnut creek
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[tc]

Jim,
Try some *Schwalbe G-One Speed 
*' tires with 
Schwalbe's Extra Light tubes.  Expensive, but from my experience with diff 
tires (from road to knobby) on my 59 Clem H, they are simply excellent.  
About as light as you'll get, fast, grippy, no flats yet.  If you go with 
the 2-inchers, they'll fit very nicely under the VO fluted fenders.[image: 
clemH_59_green_driveside_frontquarter_small.jpg]

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 7:20:00 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Thanks all.  When I said "lumbering hulk" I should have included myself + 
> the bike, not the bike alone.  Peter Fonda looks very serene with his arms 
> up in the air, there.  
>
> Brendonoid, I respect your experience carrying 50 kgs of mail.  I tried 
> the Kwick Nines with less air today--got the rear tire down to 15 psi and 
> it rolled OK.  Will shop for some new tires though.
>
> Jim
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:47:05 AM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> If you are going to talk about the flexing of a Rivendell, built from 
>> fairly sturdy OS tubing, I think going from a 59cm 700c diamond frame to a 
>> 52cm 650b diamond frame will affect flex characteristics more than 
>> strapping a pipe to the top tube. Extra weight can definitely induce flex, 
>> but usually of the undesirable kind. But it also affects steering input and 
>> ride feel, depending on where it is on the bike. 
>>
>> I believe the Clem Smith Jr. is designed in a way that you don't need to 
>> load it down to get a good ride feel.  I have light and flexy bikes, 531 
>> and Tange Prestige, had a custom L'Avecaise with skinny thinny top tube. 
>> While they certainly ride differently than my 650B 52cm Clem L and my 700c 
>> 56cm Susie, I would not describe either of the Rivs as lumbering, even in 
>> comparison. Of course the 2.6" Honchos on the Susie are slower on the road 
>> than the 48mm Switchback Hills on *El Clem*. And while I agree 
>> handlebars can contribute to how we respond to a bicycle, I love getting up 
>> out of the saddle on my Clem and grabbing tight to the Hunt-Wilde finger 
>> grips on my Bullmoose Boscos  to sprint over a small rise, or jam up the 
>> last meters of a hill. Every bit as satisfying as sprinting on a 531 frame 
>> with Maes parallel drop bars! On the other hand, the VO Klunker bars on the 
>> Susie are set just a tad too high to be conducive to an out of the saddle 
>> full wattage effort. But they have other redeeming qualities!
>>
>> [image: easy rider.jpg]
>> I 
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 8:01:26 PM UTC-5 Mark Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
>>> without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
>>> weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
>>> Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 
 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, 
 though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons 
 people have said. 

 Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
 this forum over the last couple years.

 DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has 
 a great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and 
 gives them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.

 Jim W

 On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:

> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
>> pipe.  
>>
> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>
> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was 
> too small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 
> 59. 
> I support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll 
> feel a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/58ee3a95-6cf0-446d-93d2-569f3af6f235n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[James Whorton]

Paul, these are all good questions, and I wish I could answer
analytically.  Joe Bernard's phrase "road-hugging weight" sounds right to
me.

Whether the steering was more controllable with the extra weight--maybe.
An interesting thing about having a pipe sticking out over the front wheel
is that it gave me a really clear, graphic indication of all the little
corrections I make when I am steering.  The frame wants to go straight, and
the front wheel is relatively jittery.  Maybe it would be an interesting
experiment to try the same ride with something light, like a yardstick out
over the wheel, to see if there is a difference

I have wondered why we attach front baskets to forks, instead of to the
frame.  Probably because it is easier to attach the basket to the fork and
handlebars.  But I think it would ride better if it was attached to the
frame.




On Tue, Jan 12, 2021 at 2:59 PM Paul Brodek  wrote:

> Many interesting/helpful electrons already spilled on this. I'll only
> add
>
> 1. I have a very hard time myself characterizing frame-related ride
> characteristics. That said, here I'm having trouble contrasting "lumbering
> feeling on a hilly ride" with "gets smoother with more weight." Also, "not
> faster, but easier." Was the ride being hilly important, meaning the bike
> feels less lumbering on flatter rides? Did the bike climb faster with the
> iron bar addition? Or did you get more oomph on the downhills before the
> climbs to give you more momentum on the way up? Heavier weight made
> steering more controllable? Or something else? Not trying to pick nits
> here, just trying to understand better, while happily admitting I
> particularly stink trying to describe this stuff myself.
> 2. But TIRES TIRES TIRES TIRES TIRES. Oh, and TIRES. Dead tires = dead
> ride. I think especially with tires this wide, and with wheelbases this
> long.
> 3. Weight savings going to a smaller frame will only be ounces, which are
> immaterial in the overall rider/bike weight calculation. If it was just
> frame weight that mattered, you could A/B compare by riding with/without a
> half-full water bottle. It's not the weight so much as the flex. What would
> be more important to ride quality would be if the smaller frame had
> thinner-diameter tubes, or thinner-wall tubes, which would flex more. I
> suppose shorter-length frame tubes and longer seatposts/stems would also
> factor in, though, regardless of tube width/thickness.
>
> Paul Brodek
> Hillsdale, NJ USA
> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89
>> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a
>> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a
>> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike
>> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the
>> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It
>> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The
>> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because
>> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it
>> possible I was not confused?
>>
>> I will try to insert a picture.
>>
>> Jim in Rochester
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJ3_7DY0S2Fh4PcMgjQKwqda9jgKQmzX%3DJUJAbGaWmxbVGW8Qg%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Paul Brodek]

Many interesting/helpful electrons already spilled on this. I'll only 
add

1. I have a very hard time myself characterizing frame-related ride 
characteristics. That said, here I'm having trouble contrasting "lumbering 
feeling on a hilly ride" with "gets smoother with more weight." Also, "not 
faster, but easier." Was the ride being hilly important, meaning the bike 
feels less lumbering on flatter rides? Did the bike climb faster with the 
iron bar addition? Or did you get more oomph on the downhills before the 
climbs to give you more momentum on the way up? Heavier weight made 
steering more controllable? Or something else? Not trying to pick nits 
here, just trying to understand better, while happily admitting I 
particularly stink trying to describe this stuff myself.
2. But TIRES TIRES TIRES TIRES TIRES. Oh, and TIRES. Dead tires = dead 
ride. I think especially with tires this wide, and with wheelbases this 
long.
3. Weight savings going to a smaller frame will only be ounces, which are 
immaterial in the overall rider/bike weight calculation. If it was just 
frame weight that mattered, you could A/B compare by riding with/without a 
half-full water bottle. It's not the weight so much as the flex. What would 
be more important to ride quality would be if the smaller frame had 
thinner-diameter tubes, or thinner-wall tubes, which would flex more. I 
suppose shorter-length frame tubes and longer seatposts/stems would also 
factor in, though, regardless of tube width/thickness.

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA
On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:

> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the 
> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The 
> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
> possible I was not confused?
>
> I will try to insert a picture.  
>
> Jim in Rochester
>
> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d57a06a6-76b4-4165-9d78-6a937c802a72n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[dougP]

Perhaps this point is obvious to some but it just occurred to me.  A 
manufacturer must design the bike for intended use (touring, racing, etc.) 
so that's one major influence on tubing choice & geometry.   For production 
bikes (as opposed to customs), the design must also address maximum load, 
including rider.  Brendon's observation (above) about the change in 
handling over the course of his mail delivery day is an excellent example.  
For example the 59 cm Clem H may be ridden by riders from say 180 lbs (or 
less?) up to 220 lbs (or more?).  Throw a reasonable expectation of load 
carrying of 30 lbs, and the frame must feel secure at a total weight of 250 
lbs.  If the 180 lb rider rides it with no load, it will feel a great 
stiffer than the 220 lb rider with some load.  This puts the designer / 
manufacturer in the quandry of over-building to handling heaviest expected 
load and under-building to provide a good ride for the lightest situation.  
My guess is the design must always be a compromise to be not overly stiff 
or overly noodly.  

dougP

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 4:20:00 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Thanks all.  When I said "lumbering hulk" I should have included myself + 
> the bike, not the bike alone.  Peter Fonda looks very serene with his arms 
> up in the air, there.  
>
> Brendonoid, I respect your experience carrying 50 kgs of mail.  I tried 
> the Kwick Nines with less air today--got the rear tire down to 15 psi and 
> it rolled OK.  Will shop for some new tires though.
>
> Jim
>
> On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:47:05 AM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> If you are going to talk about the flexing of a Rivendell, built from 
>> fairly sturdy OS tubing, I think going from a 59cm 700c diamond frame to a 
>> 52cm 650b diamond frame will affect flex characteristics more than 
>> strapping a pipe to the top tube. Extra weight can definitely induce flex, 
>> but usually of the undesirable kind. But it also affects steering input and 
>> ride feel, depending on where it is on the bike. 
>>
>> I believe the Clem Smith Jr. is designed in a way that you don't need to 
>> load it down to get a good ride feel.  I have light and flexy bikes, 531 
>> and Tange Prestige, had a custom L'Avecaise with skinny thinny top tube. 
>> While they certainly ride differently than my 650B 52cm Clem L and my 700c 
>> 56cm Susie, I would not describe either of the Rivs as lumbering, even in 
>> comparison. Of course the 2.6" Honchos on the Susie are slower on the road 
>> than the 48mm Switchback Hills on *El Clem*. And while I agree 
>> handlebars can contribute to how we respond to a bicycle, I love getting up 
>> out of the saddle on my Clem and grabbing tight to the Hunt-Wilde finger 
>> grips on my Bullmoose Boscos  to sprint over a small rise, or jam up the 
>> last meters of a hill. Every bit as satisfying as sprinting on a 531 frame 
>> with Maes parallel drop bars! On the other hand, the VO Klunker bars on the 
>> Susie are set just a tad too high to be conducive to an out of the saddle 
>> full wattage effort. But they have other redeeming qualities!
>>
>> [image: easy rider.jpg]
>> I 
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 8:01:26 PM UTC-5 Mark Schneider wrote:
>>
>>> I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
>>> without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
>>> weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
>>> Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 
 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, 
 though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons 
 people have said. 

 Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
 this forum over the last couple years.

 DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has 
 a great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and 
 gives them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.

 Jim W

 On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:

> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
>> pipe.  
>>
> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>
> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was 
> too small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 
> 59. 
> I support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll 
> feel a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>


-- 
You received this message because 

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Jim Whorton]

Thanks all.  When I said "lumbering hulk" I should have included myself + 
the bike, not the bike alone.  Peter Fonda looks very serene with his arms 
up in the air, there.  

Brendonoid, I respect your experience carrying 50 kgs of mail.  I tried the 
Kwick Nines with less air today--got the rear tire down to 15 psi and it 
rolled OK.  Will shop for some new tires though.

Jim

On Monday, January 11, 2021 at 8:47:05 AM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:

> If you are going to talk about the flexing of a Rivendell, built from 
> fairly sturdy OS tubing, I think going from a 59cm 700c diamond frame to a 
> 52cm 650b diamond frame will affect flex characteristics more than 
> strapping a pipe to the top tube. Extra weight can definitely induce flex, 
> but usually of the undesirable kind. But it also affects steering input and 
> ride feel, depending on where it is on the bike. 
>
> I believe the Clem Smith Jr. is designed in a way that you don't need to 
> load it down to get a good ride feel.  I have light and flexy bikes, 531 
> and Tange Prestige, had a custom L'Avecaise with skinny thinny top tube. 
> While they certainly ride differently than my 650B 52cm Clem L and my 700c 
> 56cm Susie, I would not describe either of the Rivs as lumbering, even in 
> comparison. Of course the 2.6" Honchos on the Susie are slower on the road 
> than the 48mm Switchback Hills on *El Clem*. And while I agree handlebars 
> can contribute to how we respond to a bicycle, I love getting up out of the 
> saddle on my Clem and grabbing tight to the Hunt-Wilde finger grips on my 
> Bullmoose Boscos  to sprint over a small rise, or jam up the last meters of 
> a hill. Every bit as satisfying as sprinting on a 531 frame with Maes 
> parallel drop bars! On the other hand, the VO Klunker bars on the Susie are 
> set just a tad too high to be conducive to an out of the saddle full 
> wattage effort. But they have other redeeming qualities!
>
> [image: easy rider.jpg]
> I 
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 8:01:26 PM UTC-5 Mark Schneider wrote:
>
>> I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
>> without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
>> weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
>> Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>
>>> Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 
>>> 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, 
>>> though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons 
>>> people have said. 
>>>
>>> Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
>>> this forum over the last couple years.
>>>
>>> DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has a 
>>> great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and gives 
>>> them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.
>>>
>>> Jim W
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>>>
 On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
> pipe.  
>
 I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 

 I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was too 
 small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 59. I 
 support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll 
 feel 
 a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.

 jim m
 walnut creek

>>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d9bd0548-6a6a-458b-aff1-b3da9250c03cn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Mark Roland]

If you are going to talk about the flexing of a Rivendell, built from 
fairly sturdy OS tubing, I think going from a 59cm 700c diamond frame to a 
52cm 650b diamond frame will affect flex characteristics more than 
strapping a pipe to the top tube. Extra weight can definitely induce flex, 
but usually of the undesirable kind. But it also affects steering input and 
ride feel, depending on where it is on the bike. 

I believe the Clem Smith Jr. is designed in a way that you don't need to 
load it down to get a good ride feel.  I have light and flexy bikes, 531 
and Tange Prestige, had a custom L'Avecaise with skinny thinny top tube. 
While they certainly ride differently than my 650B 52cm Clem L and my 700c 
56cm Susie, I would not describe either of the Rivs as lumbering, even in 
comparison. Of course the 2.6" Honchos on the Susie are slower on the road 
than the 48mm Switchback Hills on *El Clem*. And while I agree handlebars 
can contribute to how we respond to a bicycle, I love getting up out of the 
saddle on my Clem and grabbing tight to the Hunt-Wilde finger grips on my 
Bullmoose Boscos  to sprint over a small rise, or jam up the last meters of 
a hill. Every bit as satisfying as sprinting on a 531 frame with Maes 
parallel drop bars! On the other hand, the VO Klunker bars on the Susie are 
set just a tad too high to be conducive to an out of the saddle full 
wattage effort. But they have other redeeming qualities!

[image: easy rider.jpg]
I 

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 8:01:26 PM UTC-5 Mark Schneider wrote:

> I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
> without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
> weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
> Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 
>> 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, 
>> though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons 
>> people have said. 
>>
>> Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
>> this forum over the last couple years.
>>
>> DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has a 
>> great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and gives 
>> them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.
>>
>> Jim W
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
 pipe.  

>>> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>>>
>>> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was too 
>>> small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 59. I 
>>> support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll feel 
>>> a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>>>
>>> jim m
>>> walnut creek
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a1eb22fb-72d5-41cc-bbc4-eab77ac7a3d4n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[brendonoid]

This thread is so good I just needed to let everyone know how much I 
enjoyed reading it. My immediate thought was as others then said, to lower 
the tyre pressure and then get rid of those tyres ASAP. 

Loaded bikes vs. unloaded bikes is a very real and noticable thing also. My 
postie bike goes from almost a noodle frame on rails to a twitchy overly 
stiff pig as I slowly unload 50kgs of mail through the day.

OPINIONS: 
Another thought is that the Bosco bars they are great, but certainly have 
never made a bike feel spritely. At least, not to me. So before sizing down 
and after changing the tyres, maybe try a different bar? I have a lot of 
different bike setups and everyone of them is the best for a given 
situation or particular ride. Bicycles are fun like that.
I do not think the frame is too big for you.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ab635e53-2bc0-4476-a21a-992ae32c9069n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Jeffrey Arita]

Jim,

You are not imagining things.  I have a Surly Cross-Check that has been 
used as a commuter, grocery-getter, randonneur, single-speed and as a 
cyclo-tourer.  When I had it configured as a tourer I had it fairly heavily 
laden in front (2 large Ortlieb backroller panniers + Tubus Tara) with an 
Ortlieb rack pack on back + Tubus Cosmo.  I still cannot believe how 
comfortable that particular rig rode.  As Mark Schneider points out, bikes 
do seem to work better when they flex a bit, and with the Surly's decently 
burly tubes, it sure proved that theory!

Good luck!

Jeff

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 5:01:26 PM UTC-8 Mark Schneider wrote:

> I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
> without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
> weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
> Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 
>> 52 would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, 
>> though I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons 
>> people have said. 
>>
>> Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
>> this forum over the last couple years.
>>
>> DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has a 
>> great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and gives 
>> them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.
>>
>> Jim W
>>
>> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>>
>>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
 pipe.  

>>> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>>>
>>> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was too 
>>> small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 59. I 
>>> support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll feel 
>>> a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>>>
>>> jim m
>>> walnut creek
>>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aa6dd406-70c0-4d72-aa03-527d87cefd76n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Mark Schneider]

I think I have an idea. The stiff tubing on your Clem wasn't flexing 
without a load. Bikes work best when they flex a little, your other bikes 
weren't as stiff, the extra weight allows the Clem to "plane". I've heard 
Jan Heine talk about stiffer bikes needing more weight to ride better.

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 11:57:28 AM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 52 
> would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, though 
> I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons people 
> have said. 
>
> Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
> this forum over the last couple years.
>
> DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has a 
> great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and gives 
> them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.
>
> Jim W
>
> On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
>>> pipe.  
>>>
>> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>>
>> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was too 
>> small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 59. I 
>> support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll feel 
>> a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>>
>> jim m
>> walnut creek
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/fee2f626-7c7a-409f-84ae-9a5bf0a8f3c6n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Jim Whorton]

Jim M, thanks for sharing that about the 52 Clem.  I had wondered how a 52 
would feel.  I can't help thinking the 55 Atlantis would be perfect, though 
I'm hesitant to spend that money on a new bike for all the reasons people 
have said. 

Really appreciate all the comments and advice.  I've learned a ton from 
this forum over the last couple years.

DougP,  yes, I am with you on donating bikes and parts.  Rochester has a 
great non-profit called R Community Bikes that repairs old bikes and gives 
them away to people who need them.  I have given them a few.

Jim W

On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:14:07 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:

> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
>> pipe.  
>>
> I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 
>
> I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was too 
> small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 59. I 
> support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll feel 
> a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7110e6c0-57f9-4e2a-b339-385c05e5d160n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Jim M.]

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
> pipe.  
>
I have a pipe like that (slightly shorter) to use as a cheater bar. 

I have the same pbh and bought a 52 Clem H that was on sale. It was too 
small though I fit the theoretical range. I should have gotten the 59. I 
support the suggestions of better tires/lower pressure. I think you'll feel 
a big difference. I really liked the Clem other than the sizing.

jim m
walnut creek

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/97e86a2d-a5c9-4511-8573-4ad80cedcc51n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Garth]

   Jim, the bike may seem "too big" , but is it really or are you simply 
comparing it to your other bikes and equating that with "too big", "a 
lumbering hulk" ? Your Clem is what it is, so rather than comparing it and 
thus diminishing it, play around with it. I've seen many a tales here how 
someone said they didn't like their bike, but after a change/adjustment of 
some part of the bike that you contact(bars/stem/saddle/pedals, etc.), or 
even tires, their story changed completely. Many mtb's have considerably 
steeper seat tube angles too, which places your center of balance further 
forward that on the Clem. I could see how that would contribute to a 
perception of "less sprightly" or "laid back" or even "sluggish".  The 
chainstays and wheelbase are also much longer, so of course it will feel 
different, so* try riding it different*. Every bike has it's own 
"personality", if you will. Let it shine rather than try making it 
something it's not, any another bike. 

If you still find it's not for you, so what ? Let it go and find something 
else, there's always a bike to ride. 
On Sunday, January 10, 2021 at 1:15:00 AM UTC-5 mkernan...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jim,  several years ago I had a double TT 64cm Atlantis that I took on a 
> tour up around the Olympic peninsula. It also was a touch too large for me. 
>   In touring mode I had it loaded up with a Pass and Stow front rack with a 
> basket on top and two medium sized low rider front panniers. On the rear I 
> had a medium saddle sack that sat on a Nitto r-14 rack.It was probably 
>  75/25 ; front/ rear weight distribution.   That bike rode awesome( to me) 
> in that configuration.Leaving an empty-ish camp one morning on a quiet 
> stretch of road,  I rode no handed for ~7miles on a gently curvy road. It 
> felt smooth and in control.  (. There were mile markers and when solo on 
> the road sometimes you make games for yourself).   I’ll never forget that. 
>  Just anecdotally reiterating your experience that sometimes a bike can 
> feel better with some weight.-Mike
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 9, 2021, at 10:01 PM, dougP  wrote:
>
> Anything bike related that I don't want goes to my local bicycle co-op.  
> They depend on donations to keep bikes owned by low income people running.  
> What feels like a crappy, sluggish tire to me could be wonderful to someone 
> who just needs new rubber to get back'n'forth to work on.  Never toss out a 
> "tried & disliked" item.  Donate.
>
> dougP
>
> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the ideas and observations, everyone.  I will try lowering the 
>> tire pressure tomorrow.  New tires soon, too.
>>
>> Jason and Mark, I think you are right that the Clem *ought* to fit me.  
>> By the numbers it does.  My favorite bike to ride around town is an old 
>> mountain bike with a 53cm seat tube that ought to be too small for me, but 
>> it's sprightly and a lot of fun to ride.
>>
>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
>> pipe.  
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 10:40 PM Mark Roland  wrote:
>>
>>> I doubt the pipe is doing much for your Clem other than perhaps 
>>> contributing to some beausage on your top tube. The bike certainly doesn't 
>>> seem like it would be too big for a 6'1"--Grant runs a 59 Clem and he is 
>>> under six foot. 
>>>
>>> I never changed the Kendas on my OC (Original Clementine) and yeah they 
>>> were a little sluggish, though not the end of the world. On my El Clem, I 
>>> went with Rene Herse Switchback Hill EL. Pretty dreamy. I would never 
>>> describe a Clem as a lumbering hulk, though, so your mileage may vary.  
>>> Before getting a smaller bike I would drop a buck sixty on some fancy tires 
>>> and see what happens.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
 PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
 lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
 piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
 because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on 
 the 
 bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
 didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  
 The 
 simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
 adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
 possible I was not confused?

 I will try to insert a picture.  

 Jim in Rochester

 [image: IMG_1544.jpg]


 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Michael Williams]

Jim,  several years ago I had a double TT 64cm Atlantis that I took on a tour 
up around the Olympic peninsula. It also was a touch too large for me.   In 
touring mode I had it loaded up with a Pass and Stow front rack with a basket 
on top and two medium sized low rider front panniers. On the rear I had a 
medium saddle sack that sat on a Nitto r-14 rack.It was probably  75/25 ; 
front/ rear weight distribution.   That bike rode awesome( to me) in that 
configuration.Leaving an empty-ish camp one morning on a quiet stretch of 
road,  I rode no handed for ~7miles on a gently curvy road. It felt smooth and 
in control.  (. There were mile markers and when solo on the road sometimes you 
make games for yourself).   I’ll never forget that.  Just anecdotally 
reiterating your experience that sometimes a bike can feel better with some 
weight.-Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 9, 2021, at 10:01 PM, dougP  wrote:
> 
> Anything bike related that I don't want goes to my local bicycle co-op.  They 
> depend on donations to keep bikes owned by low income people running.  What 
> feels like a crappy, sluggish tire to me could be wonderful to someone who 
> just needs new rubber to get back'n'forth to work on.  Never toss out a 
> "tried & disliked" item.  Donate.
> 
> dougP
> 
>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>> Thanks for the ideas and observations, everyone.  I will try lowering the 
>> tire pressure tomorrow.  New tires soon, too.
>> 
>> Jason and Mark, I think you are right that the Clem ought to fit me.  By the 
>> numbers it does.  My favorite bike to ride around town is an old mountain 
>> bike with a 53cm seat tube that ought to be too small for me, but it's 
>> sprightly and a lot of fun to ride.
>> 
>> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good pipe.  
>> 
>> Jim
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 10:40 PM Mark Roland  wrote:
>> 
>>> I doubt the pipe is doing much for your Clem other than perhaps 
>>> contributing to some beausage on your top tube. The bike certainly doesn't 
>>> seem like it would be too big for a 6'1"--Grant runs a 59 Clem and he is 
>>> under six foot. 
>>> 
>>> I never changed the Kendas on my OC (Original Clementine) and yeah they 
>>> were a little sluggish, though not the end of the world. On my El Clem, I 
>>> went with Rene Herse Switchback Hill EL. Pretty dreamy. I would never 
>>> describe a Clem as a lumbering hulk, though, so your mileage may vary.  
>>> Before getting a smaller bike I would drop a buck sixty on some fancy tires 
>>> and see what happens.
>>> 
 On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
 I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 PBH). 
  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
 lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
 piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
 because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on 
 the bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great. 
  It didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother. 
  The simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, 
 because adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  
 Butis it possible I was not confused?
 
 I will try to insert a picture.  
 
 Jim in Rochester
 
 
 
 
>>> 
>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/qLyDc2lVI3Q/unsubscribe.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aade2800-a30f-45fa-bdda-bfaf365b556dn%40googlegroups.com.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a3d0aec5-b651-41c1-908c-44e111c45aefn%40googlegroups.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/C6DCA500-0749-4F6F-9FF8-881FCDCC98EF%40gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[dougP]

Anything bike related that I don't want goes to my local bicycle co-op.  
They depend on donations to keep bikes owned by low income people running.  
What feels like a crappy, sluggish tire to me could be wonderful to someone 
who just needs new rubber to get back'n'forth to work on.  Never toss out a 
"tried & disliked" item.  Donate.

dougP

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 8:24:28 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> Thanks for the ideas and observations, everyone.  I will try lowering the 
> tire pressure tomorrow.  New tires soon, too.
>
> Jason and Mark, I think you are right that the Clem *ought* to fit me.  
> By the numbers it does.  My favorite bike to ride around town is an old 
> mountain bike with a 53cm seat tube that ought to be too small for me, but 
> it's sprightly and a lot of fun to ride.
>
> I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good 
> pipe.  
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 10:40 PM Mark Roland  wrote:
>
>> I doubt the pipe is doing much for your Clem other than perhaps 
>> contributing to some beausage on your top tube. The bike certainly doesn't 
>> seem like it would be too big for a 6'1"--Grant runs a 59 Clem and he is 
>> under six foot. 
>>
>> I never changed the Kendas on my OC (Original Clementine) and yeah they 
>> were a little sluggish, though not the end of the world. On my El Clem, I 
>> went with Rene Herse Switchback Hill EL. Pretty dreamy. I would never 
>> describe a Clem as a lumbering hulk, though, so your mileage may vary.  
>> Before getting a smaller bike I would drop a buck sixty on some fancy tires 
>> and see what happens.
>>
>> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
>>> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
>>> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
>>> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
>>> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the 
>>> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
>>> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The 
>>> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
>>> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
>>> possible I was not confused?
>>>
>>> I will try to insert a picture.  
>>>
>>> Jim in Rochester
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/qLyDc2lVI3Q/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aade2800-a30f-45fa-bdda-bfaf365b556dn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a3d0aec5-b651-41c1-908c-44e111c45aefn%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[James Whorton]

Thanks for the ideas and observations, everyone.  I will try lowering the
tire pressure tomorrow.  New tires soon, too.

Jason and Mark, I think you are right that the Clem *ought* to fit me.  By
the numbers it does.  My favorite bike to ride around town is an old
mountain bike with a 53cm seat tube that ought to be too small for me, but
it's sprightly and a lot of fun to ride.

I'm not sure why I picked up the pipe, Jason.  It seemed like a good pipe.

Jim


On Sat, Jan 9, 2021 at 10:40 PM Mark Roland 
wrote:

> I doubt the pipe is doing much for your Clem other than perhaps
> contributing to some beausage on your top tube. The bike certainly doesn't
> seem like it would be too big for a 6'1"--Grant runs a 59 Clem and he is
> under six foot.
>
> I never changed the Kendas on my OC (Original Clementine) and yeah they
> were a little sluggish, though not the end of the world. On my El Clem, I
> went with Rene Herse Switchback Hill EL. Pretty dreamy. I would never
> describe a Clem as a lumbering hulk, though, so your mileage may vary.
> Before getting a smaller bike I would drop a buck sixty on some fancy tires
> and see what happens.
>
> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89
>> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a
>> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a
>> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike
>> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the
>> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It
>> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The
>> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because
>> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it
>> possible I was not confused?
>>
>> I will try to insert a picture.
>>
>> Jim in Rochester
>>
>> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>>
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/qLyDc2lVI3Q/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aade2800-a30f-45fa-bdda-bfaf365b556dn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJ3_7DbsaoTgFPXB4NN7y2hvRNaQoB88351Eqsnn4ZyLez8dTA%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Mark Roland]

I doubt the pipe is doing much for your Clem other than perhaps 
contributing to some beausage on your top tube. The bike certainly doesn't 
seem like it would be too big for a 6'1"--Grant runs a 59 Clem and he is 
under six foot. 

I never changed the Kendas on my OC (Original Clementine) and yeah they 
were a little sluggish, though not the end of the world. On my El Clem, I 
went with Rene Herse Switchback Hill EL. Pretty dreamy. I would never 
describe a Clem as a lumbering hulk, though, so your mileage may vary.  
Before getting a smaller bike I would drop a buck sixty on some fancy tires 
and see what happens.

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:37:33 PM UTC-5 Jim Whorton wrote:

> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the 
> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The 
> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
> possible I was not confused?
>
> I will try to insert a picture.  
>
> Jim in Rochester
>
> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/aade2800-a30f-45fa-bdda-bfaf365b556dn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[dougP]

My Atlantis has a much softer, more cushy ride with 20-30 lbs of weight.  
The cost is slower acceleration & generally more effort.  

OTH, I've ridden the long wheelbase Atlantis & even unloaded it rides 
noticeably softer than my 2003.  The longer chainstays probably account for 
that.

dougP

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 3:37:33 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the 
> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The 
> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
> possible I was not confused?
>
> I will try to insert a picture.  
>
> Jim in Rochester
>
> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f78468ae-23da-41f5-a11a-25bbc01c7e75n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Bones]

Makes sense to me. I ride around with two kids on my bike all the time 
(first an Appaloosa with one kid in front and one in back, now a Clem L 
with an xtracycle). They both cruise like Impalas. On the other end I 
stripped the stock wheels off my Clem H and put on some cliffhangers + 
thunderburts tubeless and saw a night and day improvement in handling while 
unloaded. Please let us know what else you decide to tie to your bicycle. 
Brilliant.

Bones

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 6:48:44 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's what car ads in the '60s called road-hugging weight. To extend the 
> car analogy, I've had several lighter/smaller ones with decent power, and 
> now a basic big Chevy Impala with a little more power and a LOT more 
> weight. It's probably not any faster than those hot hatches but oh baby 
> does it cruise at 72 without a care in the world. 
>
> Your gorgeous Clem is showing a similar effect. Put more bags and stuff on 
> it and cruise! 
>
> On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 3:37:33 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:
>
>> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
>> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
>> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
>> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
>> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the 
>> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
>> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The 
>> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
>> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
>> possible I was not confused?
>>
>> I will try to insert a picture.  
>>
>> Jim in Rochester
>>
>> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/db047049-9d8c-4ecd-aa27-2ef195bf0c6en%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Weight question / I'm obviously confused

[Joe Bernard]

That's what car ads in the '60s called road-hugging weight. To extend the 
car analogy, I've had several lighter/smaller ones with decent power, and 
now a basic big Chevy Impala with a little more power and a LOT more 
weight. It's probably not any faster than those hot hatches but oh baby 
does it cruise at 72 without a care in the world. 

Your gorgeous Clem is showing a similar effect. Put more bags and stuff on 
it and cruise! 

On Saturday, January 9, 2021 at 3:37:33 PM UTC-8 Jim Whorton wrote:

> I have a 59cm Clem H that is a little too big for me (I am 6' 1", 89 
> PBH).  So I was riding it on some hilly pavement today, thinking what a 
> lumbering hulk this bike is and how I need a smaller one.  I came across a 
> piece of iron pipe in the road.  I thought, "I need to tie that on my bike 
> because it will make everything worse, proving my point."  I tied it on the 
> bike and to my confusion, the bike rode more smoothly.  It felt great.  It 
> didn't feel faster but it felt easier and just really nice.  Smoother.  The 
> simplest explanation is that I am confused and imagining things, because 
> adding pounds to my Clem H should not make it nicer to ride.  Butis it 
> possible I was not confused?
>
> I will try to insert a picture.  
>
> Jim in Rochester
>
> [image: IMG_1544.jpg]
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/de55d285-b5f0-456d-bd1e-a9c9d3e77d4en%40googlegroups.com.