[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

If even backpedaling legs can create wobble, then shouldn’t the questions be, 
is the system stuff enough, and why are we then concerned with a little wobble?
I know the answer to the former question is yes, at least for my relatively 
meager output. Nevertheless, I’ve never found my backpedaling legs to exert so 
much stress on cranks that wobble to any degree. I say is because on one of my 
bikes, the front derailleur friction shifter will slip, and cause the cage to 
come pretty close to the chain. I’ve never found out the slippage through 
backpedaling, only through offsaddle cranking.
For the latter question, if indeed even the slightest torque can cause such 
wobble, why even spend the effort to ensure the chainrings are entirely flat? 
Shouldn’t “looks flat to me when out on the table” be enough?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not sure that legs make up most of the weight in the bottom half of *my* body 
...

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Sep 27, 2018, at 11:53 AM, Jan Heine  wrote:
> 
> On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
> My legs aren’t heavy!  Your legs are heavy!  Harrumph
> 
>  I should have said 'our legs.' 
> Muscles aren't light! A cyclist's weight is mostly in the lower half of the 
> body, whereas a swimmer's is in the upper half.
> 
> Jan Heine
> Founder
> Compass Cycles
> www.compasscycle.com  
> 
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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Jan Heine]

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> My legs aren’t heavy!  Your legs are heavy!  Harrumph


[image: ] I should have said 'our legs.' [image: ]
Muscles aren't light! A cyclist's weight is mostly in the lower half of the 
body, whereas a swimmer's is in the upper half.

Jan Heine
Founder
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com 

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Bill Lindsay]

My legs aren’t heavy!  Your legs are heavy!  Harrumph 

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Justin, Oakland]

Shots fired by Jan at Bill’s legs. “Very heavy” indeed!

-J

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Jan Heine]

Even pedaling backwards while riding, you flex the BB. Your legs are quite 
heavy, and their weight alone will flex the BB! 

The amount of flex even in a relatively stiff frame is surprising. When we 
spent two days in the University of Washington wind tunnel for the big 
aerodynamics study in *Bicycle Quarterly* 21 
, our team noticed 
how much my old Alex Singer flexed while I pedaled on their special trainer 
at a very moderate effort. *"You should have seen Lance A. when he was 
here,"* was the response from the wind tunnel staff,* "his bike flexed just 
as much."* 

If you worry about chainring wobble, stop and spin the cranks backwards by 
hand. Then you can see just the chainring runout, without the confounding 
factor of the frame flexing. Of course, also make sure your BB doesn't have 
play, and that your chainring and crank bolts are tight...

Jan Heine
Founder
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com

On Thursday, September 27, 2018 at 7:05:20 AM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> One important point from Jan’s comments that I suspect may be overlooked 
> by some is that you should judge chainring wobble or run out on the 
> workstand. If you are riding the bike, look for it pedaling backwards. When 
> you are actually riding the bike, pedaling forward, everything flexes and 
> you can’t possibly separate run out from normal flex in your machine. The 
> OP indicated his 3mm of run out was on the workstand. 
>
> Bill Lindsay 
> El Cerrito Ca

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Bill Lindsay]

One important point from Jan’s comments that I suspect may be overlooked by 
some is that you should judge chainring wobble or run out on the workstand. If 
you are riding the bike, look for it pedaling backwards. When you are actually 
riding the bike, pedaling forward, everything flexes and you can’t possibly 
separate run out from normal flex in your machine. The OP indicated his 3mm of 
run out was on the workstand. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[ascpgh]

Reading along with the thread I was recalling the differing degrees of 
finish I've seen on the four faces of a single square taper BB spindle and 
suspected that variance of tool marks on the facets of the right side 
tapers could produce the response to the crank bolt force resulting in 
slightly uneven seating. An error at that slight distance from the center 
of chainring rotation would sure be visible at the teeth. 

Jan beat me to it, but I'd try removing the crank arm and reinstalling it 
on a different orientation to the spindle tapers. You have three more tries 
before ruling it out and hopefully some aluminum "smeared" onto or into the 
offending tool marks will produce a smoother more equal interface and the 
arm will seat more perfectly. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 1:16:46 PM UTC-4, William R. wrote:
>
> I've been following this thread and I'm surprised that we haven't heard 
> from Jan himself. I can share my experience and what I learned going 
> through it. When I first got my Rene Herse crankset and SKF bottom bracket 
> three years ago, I had a similar experience where the crank was wobbling 
> and I couldn't get the derailleur to trim silently. I would be riding and 
> looking down, I could see that the crank wasn't running true. It was 
> certainly frustrating considering how much money I had just spent! I 
> contacted Compass directly and spoke (via email) with Jan himself. First 
> off he stated how high the tolerances on the SKF bottom bracket and Herse 
> crankset are and how super rare it would be for the spider to not be true. 
> More likely was for the chainrings to get bent slightly in shipping and 
> easily fixed on the bike with vise grips (with a towel to protect the 
> beautiful finish of the rings) and lightly bending them back to true. Most 
> likely (and what I was doing wrong) was that something was wrong with with 
> the high tolerance of the interface between the crank and the SKF bottom 
> bracket. It was coming loose slightly, just enough to put a little wobble 
> in the rotation of the crank. To remedy this Jan told me that the interface 
> between the crank and bottom bracket should be totally clean of any type of 
> grease or lube and tightened to the correct torque. He suggested that I get 
> one of the Herse "peanut butter knife" crank bolt wrenches (a knock off the 
> old campy wrench for good reason). The length of wrench are ensures that 
> you get the bolts in the proper area of torque with out over or under 
> tightening. I did both things and haven't had a problem since. The problem 
> can also develop when the high tolerance of a new Herse crankset is mated 
> to a used and/or less high tolerance bottom bracket. If the interface 
> issues between the crank and bb are not recognized and fixed early on, 
> irepairable damage can be done to the crank.
>
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> Bill in Westchester, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Jan Heine]

Been reading the posts about crank wobble with interest. It's something 
we've spent a lot of time thinking about. For our Rene Herse cranks, we 
went beyond what is standard in the industry to ensure they run true: The 
cranks are machined in special custom-made fixtures (one for each crank 
length, since we use different forgings and the arm thickness also varies 
with crank length) to make sure the spider arms don't deflect during 
machining. We're confident the arms run as true as they can, and far better 
than most cranks.

How do you get a wobble then? Every part has a tolerance – meaning it's 
close to the value specified in the design, but not quite there. You can 
reduce the tolerances – which increases the cost – but you cannot eliminate 
them. 

On a crank, four factors are the main culprits when there is a wobble:

1) the square taper on the spindle. This is the most important one, because 
the radius of the spindle is so small. Even a tiny wobble gets translated 
into a significant wobble at the chainring. Unfortunately, it's also one of 
the hardest to machine, so it's not uncommon to have issues there. See 
below how to address this.

2) the crank itself. The Rene Herse crank has to be machined to very high 
tolerances, because the small BCD translates imperfections into a larger 
wobble at the ring than you get with a larger BCD. Thanks to the tight 
manufacturing tolerances, there is no problem here, unless the spider gets 
bent if the bike falls over.

3) the interface between crank and chainring. Make sure there is no metal 
shavings, etc., trapped between chainring and spider. All interfaces of the 
Rene Herse cranks are machined at the same time, to eliminate issues that 
one chainring tab might be out of alignment with the others. 

4) the chainring. As you machine the chainring from a flat sheet, inbuilt 
stresses are released. If you've worked with wood, you know this – as you 
carve away, the wood may crack or warp. With aluminum, this is less of an 
issue, but it still exists. Basically, even a perfectly flat sheet of 
aluminum will look – very slightly – like a potato chip after machining.

If you are lucky, all the tolerances cancel out, and the crank runs 
super-true. If you are unlucky, the tolerances stack up, and you get a 
noticeable wobble, even though each part is fine by itself. What can you do 
in that case?

a) Make sure everything is assembled correctly. Grease the spindle to make 
sure the crank seats perfectly. Tighten the crank bolt enough to seat the 
crank properly. When in doubt, use more torque. We've yet to see a busted 
Rene Herse crank or broken crank bolt... (When cranks came loose, it's 
usually because the bolts weren't tightened enough during the installation.)

b) Rotate the cranks 90°, 180° or 270° on the spindle. That way, you can 
find where the tolerances cancel out.

c) Just as the arms can get bent in a fall, you can also true them. Spin 
the crank and use a marker like a truing stand - you'll get a line where 
the chainring has runout. Then put a piece of wood on the nearest chainring 
bolt and hit it with a hammer. You need a good tap to bend the arm. We 
don't usually recommend this, as you need to be a good mechanic, otherwise, 
you'll probably make the problem worse. This allows you to adjust for all 
the tolerances and make the rings run true. If you take off the crank, mark 
the orientation on the BB spindle, so you mount it the same way.

d) The old tool for truing the chainrings (basically a lever with a slot) 
doesn't work on Rene Herse cranks. The rings are machined from ultra-hard 
7075 aluminum for wear resistance. 7075 cannot be bent. It springs back. If 
you bend it too far, it'll snap – in theory. In practice, you'll have to 
bend it almost 180° before it breaks.

The final question is how much wobble is acceptable. I'd say 3 mm is too 
much, but if you get 1.5 mm, you'll never notice while riding. Your frame 
flexes far more than that. That is also why you can't judge the chainring 
wobble while looking down as you ride. You need to spin the cranks 
backwards, so there is no load on the chain...

Reducing tolerances is mostly a question of money. A jet engine costs 
upward of $ 10 million because of the extremely tight tolerances. There is 
a Japanese jet engine parts maker, Gokiso, who makes bicycle hubs. They 
cost a whopping $ 5000 for a set. I've seen them, and they do spin truer 
than your average hubs, but I doubt I'd notice the difference on the road.

Jan Heine
Founder
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Lum Gim Fong]

Here is another suggestion, and I know nothing about aluminum chainring 
manufacture/interface:

Could it be that the very small BCD the rings have makes the rings, in 
effect, "longer" than most rings as they proceed outward from the center, 
making them more prone to flex/warp if a chainring bolt is overtightened? 
That would cause a ring to wobble if that was the case.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[William R.]

I've been following this thread and I'm surprised that we haven't heard 
from Jan himself. I can share my experience and what I learned going 
through it. When I first got my Rene Herse crankset and SKF bottom bracket 
three years ago, I had a similar experience where the crank was wobbling 
and I couldn't get the derailleur to trim silently. I would be riding and 
looking down, I could see that the crank wasn't running true. It was 
certainly frustrating considering how much money I had just spent! I 
contacted Compass directly and spoke (via email) with Jan himself. First 
off he stated how high the tolerances on the SKF bottom bracket and Herse 
crankset are and how super rare it would be for the spider to not be true. 
More likely was for the chainrings to get bent slightly in shipping and 
easily fixed on the bike with vise grips (with a towel to protect the 
beautiful finish of the rings) and lightly bending them back to true. Most 
likely (and what I was doing wrong) was that something was wrong with with 
the high tolerance of the interface between the crank and the SKF bottom 
bracket. It was coming loose slightly, just enough to put a little wobble 
in the rotation of the crank. To remedy this Jan told me that the interface 
between the crank and bottom bracket should be totally clean of any type of 
grease or lube and tightened to the correct torque. He suggested that I get 
one of the Herse "peanut butter knife" crank bolt wrenches (a knock off the 
old campy wrench for good reason). The length of wrench are ensures that 
you get the bolts in the proper area of torque with out over or under 
tightening. I did both things and haven't had a problem since. The problem 
can also develop when the high tolerance of a new Herse crankset is mated 
to a used and/or less high tolerance bottom bracket. If the interface 
issues between the crank and bb are not recognized and fixed early on, 
irepairable damage can be done to the crank.

Hope this is helpful.

Bill in Westchester, NY

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Steve Palincsar]

Do other brand crank sets wobble on that frame too?


On 09/25/2018 01:02 AM, Colin Macdonald wrote:
Hey can you give us an update?  I just installed a Rene Herse crankset 
and also discovered a wobble.  I tightened chainring bolts and 
remounted it, I swapped out the BB, still have a wobble.  Told Compass 
about it, they sent me a new crank arm, it also has a wobble.  In my 
case I would say about 1mm maybe a bit more.  Both rings wobble and it 
appears to be the crank arm spider itself.  For a brand new, high end, 
expensive crank I find this disappointing.


Did you send yours back?  Did you get one that's true?

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-7, Michael Doleman 
wrote:


For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double
crank. For which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse
iterations available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured
me & my Sam were worth it.

I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into
proper alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an
11-34, 9sp cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the
crank to make it impossible to trim the derailleur to a point
where there is no chain rub, except in those gear combinations
where the chainline is spot-on perfect. Anything outside those
settings and there is some rub. The large chainring (a 44t) seems
to meander by as much as 3mm.

This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any
sort of punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the
Compass SKF bottom brackets, so everything ought to be perfect.
But it's not, and I don't know why. So I need to ask: who else
uses one of these cranks, and what is your experience with it?
Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement is to be
expected?

On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with
outboard BB, and never had any such issue.

I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I
admit troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven
problematic for me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position
of the FD, and that doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using
one of the Shimano Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make
specifically for cranks with small outside chainrings).




--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Colin Macdonald]

Hey can you give us an update?  I just installed a Rene Herse crankset and 
also discovered a wobble.  I tightened chainring bolts and remounted it, I 
swapped out the BB, still have a wobble.  Told Compass about it, they sent 
me a new crank arm, it also has a wobble.  In my case I would say about 1mm 
maybe a bit more.  Both rings wobble and it appears to be the crank arm 
spider itself.  For a brand new, high end, expensive crank I find this 
disappointing.  

Did you send yours back?  Did you get one that's true?  

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-7, Michael Doleman wrote:
>
> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. For 
> which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
> worth it.
>
> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>
> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort of 
> punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
> is to be expected?
>
> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
> BB, and never had any such issue.
>
> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
> outside chainrings).
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Michael Doleman]

Just as an FYI response to the Sugino OX suggestions that have been 
floated, here... I have used that very crank, before (it's what I had on my 
old Sam), and can speak for its quality. As far as I know, however, there 
are (frustratingly) only a handful of chainring combinations with which you 
can get it, in terms of stock configuration. I have settled on liking a 
44/28 combo, and you can't get the OX in that arrangement, that I know-of 
(unless you go out and purchase separate rings, after the fact). The Rene 
Herse and IRD Lobo cranks offer the ability to completely customize the 
chainring combination. The White Industries double cranks also allow for 
this, but their set-up is so highly unusual that I've never even considered 
it. I do have a set of their hubs, however, and they are brilliant. So I 
assume the crank is quite nice, too:

http://www.whiteind.com/road-crank/

Like the Rene Herse, however, I think that a complete set-up will set you 
back something on the order of 5 to 6 hundred bucks. Crazy. The IRD Lobo 
has the advantage of being relatively economical, by comparison.



On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-7, Michael Doleman wrote:
>
> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. For 
> which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
> worth it.
>
> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>
> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort of 
> punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
> is to be expected?
>
> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
> BB, and never had any such issue.
>
> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
> outside chainrings).
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[C.J. Filip]

I had to go wider on the BB spindle than what you might need on a non-Riv.  
I had nothing but chain rub on the front derailleur body either.  A wider 
BB allowed me to raise the FD up the seat tube where the chain could run in 
the widest part of the FD body while still preventing the outer FD body 
from hitting the drive-side crank.  

This negates some of the low-tread/Q of the crank, but the Q will still be 
less than most other modern cranks out there by a good margin.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Justin, Oakland]

Reed-
Pretty sure it’s wide n heavy. You’re more of a Sugino OX guy. 

-J

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[ascpgh]

>
> *"Did you grease the spindles?"*


Start thread drift on this count; three, two, one.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:20:30 PM UTC-4, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> Did you grease the spindles? 
>
> *ducking and running*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Kieran J]

Or that Sugino OX one: https://www.suginoltd.co.jp/us/products/road/ox.html.

KJ
 

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:37:37 PM UTC-7, Michael Doleman wrote:
>
>
> https://store.interlocracing.com/loacr.html
>
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:27:14 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Metin,
>>
>> Understood, but a second (or even sixth) installation surely won't void 
>> the warranty, will it?
>>
>> Recommendations for a narrow Q non-square-taper crank that can be run as 
>> a 44/28 double?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:17 PM Metin Uz  wrote:
>>
>>> Reed,
>>>
>>> Square taper cranks have a limited number of installation cycles before 
>>> they will be too deformed, although that number could be fairly large. The 
>>> theory is that the each properly torqued installation pushes the crank 
>>> taper further into the spindle.
>>>
>>> For a travel bike that needs crank removal, I would switch to a non 
>>> square taper crank.
>>>
>>> --Metin
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:05:03 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:

 On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:34 PM Lum Gim Fong  
 wrote:

> I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.
>

 Why in the world would removing and remounting a crank void the 
 warranty? These are not single use items.

 I must remove my René Herse drive side crank arm every time I pack my 
 bike in to an airline case. I certainly hope reinstallation is expected!


 Best,
 Reed Kennedy

>>> -- 
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>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Reed Kennedy]

Interesting, thanks Michael.

Anyone know the Q factor measurement of the aforelinked IRD Lobo Adventure
crankset?


Best,
Reed

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:37 PM Michael Doleman 
wrote:

>
> https://store.interlocracing.com/loacr.html
>
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:27:14 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> Metin,
>>
>> Understood, but a second (or even sixth) installation surely won't void
>> the warranty, will it?
>>
>> Recommendations for a narrow Q non-square-taper crank that can be run as
>> a 44/28 double?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:17 PM Metin Uz  wrote:
>>
>>> Reed,
>>>
>>> Square taper cranks have a limited number of installation cycles before
>>> they will be too deformed, although that number could be fairly large. The
>>> theory is that the each properly torqued installation pushes the crank
>>> taper further into the spindle.
>>>
>>> For a travel bike that needs crank removal, I would switch to a non
>>> square taper crank.
>>>
>>> --Metin
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:05:03 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:

 On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:34 PM Lum Gim Fong 
 wrote:

> I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.
>

 Why in the world would removing and remounting a crank void the
 warranty? These are not single use items.

 I must remove my René Herse drive side crank arm every time I pack my
 bike in to an airline case. I certainly hope reinstallation is expected!


 Best,
 Reed Kennedy

>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Michael Doleman]

https://store.interlocracing.com/loacr.html


On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:27:14 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> Metin,
>
> Understood, but a second (or even sixth) installation surely won't void 
> the warranty, will it?
>
> Recommendations for a narrow Q non-square-taper crank that can be run as a 
> 44/28 double?
>
>
> Best,
> Reed
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:17 PM Metin Uz > 
> wrote:
>
>> Reed,
>>
>> Square taper cranks have a limited number of installation cycles before 
>> they will be too deformed, although that number could be fairly large. The 
>> theory is that the each properly torqued installation pushes the crank 
>> taper further into the spindle.
>>
>> For a travel bike that needs crank removal, I would switch to a non 
>> square taper crank.
>>
>> --Metin
>>
>> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:05:03 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:34 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:
>>>
 I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.

>>>
>>> Why in the world would removing and remounting a crank void the 
>>> warranty? These are not single use items.
>>>
>>> I must remove my René Herse drive side crank arm every time I pack my 
>>> bike in to an airline case. I certainly hope reinstallation is expected!
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Reed Kennedy
>>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Reed Kennedy]

Metin,

Understood, but a second (or even sixth) installation surely won't void the
warranty, will it?

Recommendations for a narrow Q non-square-taper crank that can be run as a
44/28 double?


Best,
Reed

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 4:17 PM Metin Uz  wrote:

> Reed,
>
> Square taper cranks have a limited number of installation cycles before
> they will be too deformed, although that number could be fairly large. The
> theory is that the each properly torqued installation pushes the crank
> taper further into the spindle.
>
> For a travel bike that needs crank removal, I would switch to a non square
> taper crank.
>
> --Metin
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:05:03 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:34 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:
>>
>>> I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.
>>>
>>
>> Why in the world would removing and remounting a crank void the warranty?
>> These are not single use items.
>>
>> I must remove my René Herse drive side crank arm every time I pack my
>> bike in to an airline case. I certainly hope reinstallation is expected!
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Reed Kennedy
>>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Metin Uz]

Reed,

Square taper cranks have a limited number of installation cycles before 
they will be too deformed, although that number could be fairly large. The 
theory is that the each properly torqued installation pushes the crank 
taper further into the spindle.

For a travel bike that needs crank removal, I would switch to a non square 
taper crank.

--Metin

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 4:05:03 PM UTC-7, Reed Kennedy wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:34 PM Lum Gim Fong  > wrote:
>
>> I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.
>>
>
> Why in the world would removing and remounting a crank void the warranty? 
> These are not single use items.
>
> I must remove my René Herse drive side crank arm every time I pack my bike 
> in to an airline case. I certainly hope reinstallation is expected!
>
>
> Best,
> Reed Kennedy
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Reed Kennedy]

On Thu, Sep 13, 2018 at 1:34 PM Lum Gim Fong  wrote:

> I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.
>

Why in the world would removing and remounting a crank void the warranty?
These are not single use items.

I must remove my René Herse drive side crank arm every time I pack my bike
in to an airline case. I certainly hope reinstallation is expected!


Best,
Reed Kennedy

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Lum Gim Fong]

If you dare... remove and degrease and reinstall.
Maybe the arm was  put on a little off square the first time, though one 
would think that tightening the bolt would pull it up the taper into 
square. Just an idea.
I say "if you dare" because a second mounting might void warranty.
I would talk to BQ before trying this. 

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Michael Doleman]

:-D

Spindles greased according to instructions, yes -- thank you for covering 
all bases, LOL.

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 1:20:30 PM UTC-7, Benz, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:
>
> Did you grease the spindles? 
>
> *ducking and running*
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Michael Doleman]

Okay that is an interesting telltale, because to my eye it appears that 
both rings are wobbling a bit. I will contact Compass. They have been 
awesome so far, and suspect they will be with this matter too. :-)

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:30:15 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Contact Compass and send it back for them to confirm.  If you have any 
> doubt whatsoever, send it back with the BB also.  They have a run-out 
> station mounted to a work bench.  If the tiny three bolt spider is 'off' 
> then the small ring will wobble similarly, but to a lesser degree because 
> it's smaller.  If the big ring itself is out, and the spider is perfect, 
> then the small ring should be perfect.  Can you tell which it is?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:25:32 PM UTC-7, Michael Doleman 
> wrote:
>
>> Have gone through this already. Did a test ride on which -- indeed -- 
>> there was some loosening, to the point that I needed to shore it up on the 
>> ride itself. After that I removed the crank from the spindle, entirely, and 
>> rotated it one notch forward. From there I used a torque wrench to tighten 
>> to Compass spec., which is where it is now. Still wobbling furiously...
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:18:22 PM UTC-7, phil k wrote:
>>>
>>> Follow Compass directions to a T. Ride the first few miles then need to 
>>> re-tighten the arms to Compass spec. I've found the drive-side arm would 
>>> loosen, until I finally took it to the LBS where they tightened to Compass 
>>> spec. It needs to be tightened pretty tight, and if you might need a 
>>> heavier duty torque wrench to reach it. Didn't come loose after.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-4, Michael Doleman 
>>> wrote:

 For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. 
 For which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
 available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
 worth it.

 I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
 alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
 cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
 impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
 except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
 Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
 (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.

 This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort 
 of punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
 brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't 
 know 
 why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
 experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
 is to be expected?

 On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with 
 outboard BB, and never had any such issue.

 I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
 troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
 me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
 doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
 Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
 outside chainrings).

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Bill Lindsay]

Contact Compass and send it back for them to confirm.  If you have any 
doubt whatsoever, send it back with the BB also.  They have a run-out 
station mounted to a work bench.  If the tiny three bolt spider is 'off' 
then the small ring will wobble similarly, but to a lesser degree because 
it's smaller.  If the big ring itself is out, and the spider is perfect, 
then the small ring should be perfect.  Can you tell which it is?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:25:32 PM UTC-7, Michael Doleman wrote:

> Have gone through this already. Did a test ride on which -- indeed -- 
> there was some loosening, to the point that I needed to shore it up on the 
> ride itself. After that I removed the crank from the spindle, entirely, and 
> rotated it one notch forward. From there I used a torque wrench to tighten 
> to Compass spec., which is where it is now. Still wobbling furiously...
>
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:18:22 PM UTC-7, phil k wrote:
>>
>> Follow Compass directions to a T. Ride the first few miles then need to 
>> re-tighten the arms to Compass spec. I've found the drive-side arm would 
>> loosen, until I finally took it to the LBS where they tightened to Compass 
>> spec. It needs to be tightened pretty tight, and if you might need a 
>> heavier duty torque wrench to reach it. Didn't come loose after.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-4, Michael Doleman 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. 
>>> For which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
>>> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
>>> worth it.
>>>
>>> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
>>> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
>>> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
>>> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
>>> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
>>> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
>>> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>>>
>>> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort 
>>> of punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
>>> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
>>> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
>>> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
>>> is to be expected?
>>>
>>> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
>>> BB, and never had any such issue.
>>>
>>> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
>>> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
>>> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
>>> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
>>> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
>>> outside chainrings).
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Michael Doleman]

Have gone through this already. Did a test ride on which -- indeed -- there 
was some loosening, to the point that I needed to shore it up on the ride 
itself. After that I removed the crank from the spindle, entirely, and 
rotated it one notch forward. From there I used a torque wrench to tighten 
to Compass spec., which is where it is now. Still wobbling furiously...


On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:18:22 PM UTC-7, phil k wrote:
>
> Follow Compass directions to a T. Ride the first few miles then need to 
> re-tighten the arms to Compass spec. I've found the drive-side arm would 
> loosen, until I finally took it to the LBS where they tightened to Compass 
> spec. It needs to be tightened pretty tight, and if you might need a 
> heavier duty torque wrench to reach it. Didn't come loose after.
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-4, Michael Doleman wrote:
>>
>> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. For 
>> which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
>> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
>> worth it.
>>
>> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
>> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
>> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
>> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
>> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
>> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
>> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>>
>> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort 
>> of punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
>> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
>> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
>> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
>> is to be expected?
>>
>> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
>> BB, and never had any such issue.
>>
>> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
>> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
>> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
>> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
>> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
>> outside chainrings).
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Michael Doleman]

My belief is that it's wobble, as it is occurring on the stand. I purchased 
the crank brand-new, straight from Compass, yes. It has less than 300 easy 
miles on it.


On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 12:12:46 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Is it wobble or is it flex?  Compass claims to QC every one for 'runout' 
> before shipping.  If it is moving 3mm side to side in the workstand, 
> contact Compass and send it back.  My experience with Compass Rene Herse 
> cranks is they are straight as an arrow.  You say 'nearly brand new', does 
> this mean you bought it second hand?  Sending it back to Compass would be 
> problematic in that case.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-7, Michael Doleman 
> wrote:
>
>> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. For 
>> which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
>> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
>> worth it.
>>
>> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
>> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
>> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
>> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
>> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
>> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
>> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>>
>> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort 
>> of punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
>> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
>> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
>> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
>> is to be expected?
>>
>> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
>> BB, and never had any such issue.
>>
>> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
>> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
>> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
>> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
>> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
>> outside chainrings).
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[phil k]

Follow Compass directions to a T. Ride the first few miles then need to 
re-tighten the arms to Compass spec. I've found the drive-side arm would 
loosen, until I finally took it to the LBS where they tightened to Compass 
spec. It needs to be tightened pretty tight, and if you might need a 
heavier duty torque wrench to reach it. Didn't come loose after.

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-4, Michael Doleman wrote:
>
> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. For 
> which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
> worth it.
>
> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>
> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort of 
> punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
> is to be expected?
>
> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
> BB, and never had any such issue.
>
> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
> outside chainrings).
>

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse crank wobble/deflection issue(?)

[Bill Lindsay]

Is it wobble or is it flex?  Compass claims to QC every one for 'runout' 
before shipping.  If it is moving 3mm side to side in the workstand, 
contact Compass and send it back.  My experience with Compass Rene Herse 
cranks is they are straight as an arrow.  You say 'nearly brand new', does 
this mean you bought it second hand?  Sending it back to Compass would be 
problematic in that case.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 11:44:57 AM UTC-7, Michael Doleman wrote:

> For my recent Hillborne build, I wanted a super-compact double crank. For 
> which I finally settled on one of the modern Rene Herse iterations 
> available from Compass. Crazy-expensive, but I figured me & my Sam were 
> worth it.
>
> I've had nothing but difficulty getting my front derailleur into proper 
> alignment and adjustment, for the crank. (I'm running an 11-34, 9sp 
> cassette, BTW). There is sufficient "wobble" to the crank to make it 
> impossible to trim the derailleur to a point where there is no chain rub, 
> except in those gear combinations where the chainline is spot-on perfect. 
> Anything outside those settings and there is some rub. The large chainring 
> (a 44t) seems to meander by as much as 3mm.
>
> This is a nearly brand-new crank, and has not been put through any sort of 
> punishing trials at this point. I'm using one of the Compass SKF bottom 
> brackets, so everything ought to be perfect. But it's not, and I don't know 
> why. So I need to ask: who else uses one of these cranks, and what is your 
> experience with it? Does it simply flex enough that this level of movement 
> is to be expected?
>
> On my previous (2009) Sam, I'd used a Sugino compact crank with outboard 
> BB, and never had any such issue.
>
> I consider myself to be a reasonably competent mechanic, but I admit 
> troubleshooting FD and crank issues has sometimes proven problematic for 
> me. I've tried micro-adjustments to the position of the FD, and that 
> doesn't seem to be the fix, at all. (I'm using one of the Shimano 
> Ultegra-level CX derailleurs they make specifically for cranks with small 
> outside chainrings).
>

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RE: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Mark Chandler]

My favorite bargain cranks are Shimano's FC-R4550.  At one point, I had three 
of them in service, but I'm down to just two sets (I sold one of the bikes).  
The 4550s are non-series components, and can be purchased quite cheaply online. 
 The inner (34t) chainring has proved to be quite durable, especially compared 
to the stock rings found on the Sugino XD cranks.  In fact, Shimano specs the 
same inner ring on the R600 and R700 cranksets (which sell for more than the 
R4550).
Would it be more cost-effective to upgrade to an Ultegra crank?  Probably 
not.  I'd rather take the money saved on the cranks and spend it on chains, and 
replace those at the appropriate interval to increase the other drivetrain 
components' lifespan.

Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 09:46:11 -0700
From: thill@gmail.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

With all due respect, Jan, that is a highly dubious assertion that 105 cranks 
will cost less per mile than Ultegra cranks. The MSRP difference in the crank 
is $100 ($360 for Ultegra and $260 for 105), If you assume the chainrings to be 
the primary wear item, you could buy the 105 crank and spend the extra $100 on 
some new (supposedly more durable) Ultegra rings to use when the 105 rings wear 
out. Now we're at the same price, and we've got two sets of chainrings for the 
less costly crank. That to me sounds like the 105 crank will give more miles 
for the same dollars. Of course, there's the probability that the cranks 
themselves could break, but that probability is slim with either model. How to 
compare two very small probabilities and translate it usefully to dollars/mile?

That an old Peugeot was costly to maintain is not too surprising. Those things 
are money pits. Would an equivalently priced, say, Miyata with Sun Tour parts, 
of the same vintage, have been less costly to maintain? I think yes, all else 
being equal, and barring crashes, and other mishaps. I can point at numerous 
Schwinn Varsities and similar machines that have been abused in many ways by 
many people for 40 years, and they're still on the road. Arguably, the Varsity 
is cheap for other reasons, but durability isn't one of them.

Anyway, I suspect the dollars to durability correlation to be a weak 
correlation at best, and impossible to discern in the real world. This is the 
kind of overly simplistic thing you read in an article in Bicycling that 
attempts to give first-timers some basic knowledge to buy a first road bike. 
But even Bicycling doesn't have the audacity to make a definitive claim in 
terms of dollars per mile. 

I agree that a crummy bike will be less enjoyable and will need repairs, but 
105 parts are far from crummy.


On Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:48:49 AM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:On May 31, 6:03 
am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's of

 Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, Sugino

 cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK

 headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.



I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more

expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000

miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or

improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower

tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable

and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank

with soft chainrings.



I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being

the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding

seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I

switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost

three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the

same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win

situation, once you get over the sticker shock.



Jan Heine

Editor

Bicycle Quarterly

http://www.bikequarterly.com



Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/


On Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:48:49 AM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:On May 31, 6:03 
am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's of

 Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, Sugino

 cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK

 headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.



I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more

expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000

miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or

improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower

tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable

and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank

with soft chainrings.



I

[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Corwin Booth]

I've been riding the Herse cranks for a few months now, and really like 
them... I went with a 48/30. My main reason for getting them was the desire 
for a compact double with a smaller-than-34 (I ride in the Berkeley Hills a 
lot... love my 30t!). Shifting up for the 18-tooth jump works nicely.

I do have one issue. In order to make the shift onto the big chainring, the 
derailleur cage is pushed out far enough and the Q is low enough that the 
crank arm rubs the cage as I pedal. At the moment, I just back the cage off 
a bit after I shift up (friction shifting). I wrote Jan about it, and he 
pointed out that the Campy Mirage FB front derailleur is pretty wide, and 
that, together with the 18t jump, might be the cause. I know a lot of folks 
here use that derailleur, so I thought I'd point out the problem.

On that note, anybody got a good suggestion for a different front 
derailleur? 

Corwin

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:36:06 AM UTC-7, stonehog wrote:

 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse 
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html  I haven't 
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have 
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike 
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.   

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit 
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length 
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.  
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.  

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as 
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT 
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.   
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and 
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
 frame.  

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered 
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.  
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go 
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding 
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA


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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Steven Frederick]

Yeah, they're quieter than Chris Kings--more along the lines of Campy, and
they have a very precision-instrument, high-quality ratchet sound.  Quite
nice.  I resisted Boutique hubs for a long time, in favor of good ol'
Shimano.  But I'd have a hard time not spec'ing WI for my next wheel
build.  Quite impressed with them.

Steve

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote:

 My White Hubs sound noisy in the shop, but on the road, above 15mph the
 sound is hardly noticeable, and in any case is a white noise kind of hum,
 not a click or rattle.

 Michael

 On Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:34:25 PM UTC-4, GeorgeS wrote:

 I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is
 said to be so noisy?  What is your experience?

 GeorgeS
 New Orleans

 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene
 Herse
  cranks on my AHH.  
  http://www.compasscycle.com/**cranks_bb.htmlhttp://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html
   I
 haven't
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and
 have
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the
 bike
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.
  Something
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.
 
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a
 bit
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The
 length
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for
 me.
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.
 
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit
 as
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore
 and XT
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish,
 and
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
  frame.
 
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I
 ordered
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with
 the
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to
 go
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly
 riding
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!
 
  Pics:
 
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw
 
  Brian
  Seattle, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Steven Frederick]

It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's of
Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, Sugino
cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK
headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.I suppose with a Riv
the frame IS the bling.  Eh, whatever works!

Steve

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Eric Platt epericmpl...@gmail.com wrote:

 Maybe a race to the bottom bracket.

 Can understand why folks would pay the premium for a low Q nicely made
 crankset.  Not all of us need low Q, though.  Have no problems with Sugino
 XD2 on a 110 bottom bracket on my Sam Hillborne.  But that would have a
 huge Q factor for many.  For my use, it's more comfortable.

 (Was going to compare it to 650B, but am not going there again.)

 Eric Platt
 St. Paul, MN

 On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 Is this a race to the bottom?


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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Jan Heine]

On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote:
 It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's of
 Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, Sugino
 cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK
 headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.

I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more
expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000
miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or
improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower
tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable
and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank
with soft chainrings.

I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being
the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding
seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I
switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost
three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the
same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win
situation, once you get over the sticker shock.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Peter Morgano]

I agree Jan,  but still have a hard time convincing my wife of this fact,
Haha.
On May 31, 2012 11:48 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote:

 On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote:
  It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's of
  Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, Sugino
  cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK
  headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.

 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank
 with soft chainrings.

 I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being
 the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding
 seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I
 switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost
 three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the
 same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win
 situation, once you get over the sticker shock.

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 http://www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[PATRICK MOORE]

I have a hard time believing that 105 will wear significantly faster
at a cost-affecting rate at ~2K miles/year. Certainly the comparison
with the sorts of components on a cheap, '70s or '80s 10 speed is
inapt. (At least, the 105 that I am familiar with which is the stuff
from 15 or more years ago; has it gotten hugely worse?) Doubtless with
the kind of miles that Jan and some others put on -- as a fellow
Albuquerquian rider once said to me, Nine thousand miles last year --
it was a bad year -- but for most of us mortals doing 3K miles a
year, it's really a non-issue -- especially if you swap out bikes a
lot, as many on this list seem to do.

I put thousands of miles on Alvits and Simplex Prestige, not to
mention P* O* S* components on Indian made roadsters and sure, they
needed more upkeep than the Dura Ace I know, but not *that* much more!

FWIW, the old-stock Cyclotourist chainrings I use on my Rivs, which I
think were pre-modern-hardened alloy, show almost no wear after
thousands of miles; granted, little rain; but much dust.

That said, I would have no problem justifying a R Herse crankset for a
good bike, just for the looks, bling and low Q, not to mention that
it's one of the few reasonably priced cranksets that will give you a
wide range double with a sub-33 inner. Compared to Dura Ace, high-end
SRAM and Campy, they're cheap and they certainly look better.

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote:

 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank
 with soft chainrings.

 I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being
 the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding
 seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I
 switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost
 three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the
 same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win
 situation, once you get over the sticker shock.

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 http://www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you.

Flannery O'Connor

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery]

With all due respect, Jan, that is a highly dubious assertion that 105 
cranks will cost less per mile than Ultegra cranks. The MSRP difference in 
the crank is $100 ($360 for Ultegra and $260 for 105), If you assume the 
chainrings to be the primary wear item, you could buy the 105 crank and 
spend the extra $100 on some new (supposedly more durable) Ultegra rings to 
use when the 105 rings wear out. Now we're at the same price, and we've got 
two sets of chainrings for the less costly crank. That to me sounds like 
the 105 crank will give more miles for the same dollars. Of course, there's 
the probability that the cranks themselves could break, but that 
probability is slim with either model. How to compare two very small 
probabilities and translate it usefully to dollars/mile?

That an old Peugeot was costly to maintain is not too surprising. Those 
things are money pits. Would an equivalently priced, say, Miyata with Sun 
Tour parts, of the same vintage, have been less costly to maintain? I think 
yes, all else being equal, and barring crashes, and other mishaps. I can 
point at numerous Schwinn Varsities and similar machines that have been 
abused in many ways by many people for 40 years, and they're still on the 
road. Arguably, the Varsity is cheap for other reasons, but durability 
isn't one of them.

Anyway, I suspect the dollars to durability correlation to be a weak 
correlation at best, and impossible to discern in the real world. This is 
the kind of overly simplistic thing you read in an article in Bicycling 
that attempts to give first-timers some basic knowledge to buy a first road 
bike. But even Bicycling doesn't have the audacity to make a definitive 
claim in terms of dollars per mile. 

I agree that a crummy bike will be less enjoyable and will need repairs, 
but 105 parts are far from crummy.



On Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:48:49 AM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:

 On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote: 
  It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's 
 of 
  Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, 
 Sugino 
  cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK 
  headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling. 

 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more 
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000 
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or 
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower 
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable 
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank 
 with soft chainrings. 

 I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being 
 the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding 
 seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I 
 switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost 
 three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the 
 same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win 
 situation, once you get over the sticker shock. 

 Jan Heine 
 Editor 
 Bicycle Quarterly 
 http://www.bikequarterly.com 

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ 


On Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:48:49 AM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:

 On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote: 
  It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's 
 of 
  Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, 
 Sugino 
  cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK 
  headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling. 

 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more 
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000 
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or 
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower 
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable 
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank 
 with soft chainrings. 

 I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being 
 the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding 
 seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I 
 switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost 
 three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the 
 same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win 
 situation, once you get over the sticker shock. 

 Jan Heine 
 Editor 
 Bicycle Quarterly 
 http://www.bikequarterly.com 

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ 


On Thursday, May 31, 2012 10:48:49 AM UTC-5, Jan Heine wrote:

 On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote: 
  It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's 
 of 
  Riv's proudly roll with fairly 

Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[newenglandbike]

For those who are using Sugino cranks: I've been using the Surly steel 
110bcd chainrings on my Sugino XD and AT cranksets for a while now, because 
of the softness issue with the Sugino rings-  they just wear out way too 
fast.  Definitely no issues with the steel rings.   they are great. 

I like the gearing flexibility that new RH cranks offer, and agree with 
previous posters, that the price is still a small part of the cost of a 
good bike.


-Matt

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[cyclotour...@gmail.com]

I use TA chainrings for this exact reason. They last a mighty long time!

I'm always a bit hesitant about proprietary parts. Nothing wrong with them 
at all, but I would invest in an extra set of rings. If they're only 
available from one source in the whole world, even with good intentions, 
that source could dry up at some point. And I'd have something to pass on 
to my heirs! :-)

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012 8:11:38 AM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:

 On May 28, 8:43 am, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: 

  For me, the proprietary chainrings would be a bigger concern over time. 
  Sort of thing to stock up on IMHO. The old adage of if you find 
 something 
  you really like, buy a life-time supply as they'll quit making it at 
 some 
  point. 

 The new René Herse chainrings are made from 7075 aluminum. They should 
 last much, much longer than most other rings. I used to get about 
 25-30,000 miles of racing out of Campagnolo chainrings, and these are 
 designed to last as long. We optimized the tooth profile of the small 
 rings for long wear. (The big rings are optimized for easier 
 upshifts.) So a lifetime supply of chainrings may well be one set of 
 rings for many riders. 

 Furthermore, we don't have plans to change designs for the sake of 
 changing, so we'll offer the rings as long as we remain in business, 
 which hopefully will be a long time. In fact, our new rings even fit 
 on classic René Herse cranks made since the 1960s. I suspect it will 
 be much harder to find the special chainrings for Campagnolo compact 
 or Shimano's high-end cranks in a decade or two. And quality 110 mm 
 rings always have been thin on the ground. (Sugino's rings are not 
 quite as soft as butter, but I rarely got more than 5000 miles out of 
 them.) 

 Jan Heine 
 Compass Bicycles Ltd. 
 http://www.compasscycle.com 

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[RJM]

I do agree that spending the cash up front is better off in the long run, 
especially if you are putting quite a few miles on the bike.  My Roadeo 
that I am ordering will be using the new RH crankset, I do hope they live 
up to their hype. I suspect they will.

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Brewster Fong]

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:36:06 AM UTC-7, stonehog wrote: 

 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse 
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html  I haven't 
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have 
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike 
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.   

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit 
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length 
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.  
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.  

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as 
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT 
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.   
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and 
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
 frame.  

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered 
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.  
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go 
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding 
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA


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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Steve Palincsar]

On Thu, 2012-05-31 at 08:48 -0700, Jan Heine wrote:
 
 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank
 with soft chainrings.

I'm not convinced Ultegra or Dura Ace derailleurs or brakes last longer
than 105.  For some components, the extra price brings you a nicer
finish and possibly some less weight, but not necessarily greater
durability.



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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Jan Heine]

On May 31, 9:46 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com
wrote:
 With all due respect, Jan, that is a highly dubious assertion that 105
 cranks will cost less per mile than Ultegra cranks.

Sorry I wasn't clear - I was NOT referring to the cranks in
particular, but the 105 components in general. It appears that
especially the lower-grade brake-shift-levers wear out with alarming
frequency. Hub bearings are another issue where extra money spent
usually is well-spent.

I agree with you that more money doesn't always buy you better
quality, but in the bicycle world, the correlation still holds to a
large degree. Better designs, better bearings, better seals, higher-
grade materials all bring more longevity.

Just as an example, after having gone through two sets of Shimano PD-
A520 pedals in four years, I hope that the new Ultegra-level PD-A600
pedals will last a lot longer, and be less expensive per mile, not
counting the aggravation of having to replace parts on my bike.

It is true, however, that for many parts, extra money doesn't buy you
better performance or durability. Just to quote a simple example,
inexpensive seatposts may be ugly, but most work just fine. I also
suspect that 105 brakes will stop as well as more expensive ones
(assuming they use similar pads), and last as long. And of course, the
ultimate in bargain basement parts, the old Mafac Racers, in fact are
great brakes, especially if you equip them with modern pads.

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
http://www.bikequarterly.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Kelly]

Jan,

It was my impression that 105 would actually out last ultra and dura-ace. 
 It was heavier and was the best choice for touring bikes and such.  The 
advantages of the Dura-Ace was weight and shifting ramps .. especially for 
the sprinters.   For everyday riding the heavier gage material was stouter 
and lasted longer.  My impression only no facts to back it up.  
I did just retire a tour bike to loaner status that has been on the road 
for  me since 2002 and still on the same group. (105)  

Just because it's better for racing and cost more doesn't mean it's 
better or will last longer.. shimano anyway.  My opinion only.. 

Kelly

On Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:04:50 AM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 I agree Jan,  but still have a hard time convincing my wife of this fact, 
 Haha. 
 On May 31, 2012 11:48 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote:

 On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote:
  It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's 
 of
  Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, 
 Sugino
  cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with CK
  headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.

 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank
 with soft chainrings.

 I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being
 the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding
 seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I
 switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost
 three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the
 same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win
 situation, once you get over the sticker shock.

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 http://www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Michael Hechmer]

I have noticed that a lot of people swap frames out with great rapidity. 
 Over the course of my life I have not done this and so my current 
collection of frames, all purchased new include, an '84 Trek, an 88 
Marinoni, a 99 Surly, a 2004 Rambouilet,a 
2008 Ebisu, and a 2009 Bilenky Tandem.  My wife rides an '84 Specialized 
Sequoia, purchased used, and my daughter is still riding the '85 Bianchi I 
purchased new for her brother.  Not having swapped frames around has 
allowed us to continually upgrade the wheels and components.  I have easily 
been able to add PW BB, White Hubs  cranks, Paul's brakes, Cane Creek 
levers, Alpina  White cranks and Nitto bling.  No regrets about buying the 
best components I could get.  I just may go for the Rene Herse Cranks on 
the Trek,  just because I don't like the looks or that awful hidden bolt on 
the Sugino.  At m my age a 44/34/24 is starting to have some appeal!

Michael   


On Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:05:12 PM UTC-4, Kelly wrote:

 Jan,

 It was my impression that 105 would actually out last ultra and dura-ace. 
  It was heavier and was the best choice for touring bikes and such.  The 
 advantages of the Dura-Ace was weight and shifting ramps .. especially for 
 the sprinters.   For everyday riding the heavier gage material was stouter 
 and lasted longer.  My impression only no facts to back it up.  
 I did just retire a tour bike to loaner status that has been on the road 
 for  me since 2002 and still on the same group. (105)  

 Just because it's better for racing and cost more doesn't mean it's 
 better or will last longer.. shimano anyway.  My opinion only.. 

 Kelly

 On Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:04:50 AM UTC-5, Peter M wrote:

 I agree Jan,  but still have a hard time convincing my wife of this fact, 
 Haha. 
 On May 31, 2012 11:48 AM, Jan Heine hein...@earthlink.net wrote:

 On May 31, 6:03 am, Steven Frederick stl...@gmail.com wrote:
  It's interesting how people prioritize bike build budget money.  Lot's 
 of
  Riv's proudly roll with fairly low-mid range yet functional parts, 
 Sugino
  cranks, 105 derailers, Tektro brakes. And I see a lot of Surly's with 
 CK
  headsets and various high-end bits. Bike Bling.

 I think a lot depends on how much you ride. 105 parts will be more
 expensive than Ultegra in the long run, if you ride more than 2000
 miles a year. Quality components offer better durability and/or
 improved performance - for example, a high-end crank with narrower
 tread (Q factor) and harder-wearing chainrings will be more enjoyable
 and not much more expensive in the long-run than a cheap Sugino crank
 with soft chainrings.

 I learned this early-on. My mid-range Peugeot 10-speed ended up being
 the most expensive bike I ever owned, per mile. Once I started riding
 seriously, it needed repairs and replacements almost weekly. When I
 switched to a custom frame with Campagnolo components, which cost
 three times as much to buy, my per-mile cost went way down. At the
 same time, my enjoyment of cycling went way up. It can be a win-win
 situation, once you get over the sticker shock.

 Jan Heine
 Editor
 Bicycle Quarterly
 http://www.bikequarterly.com

 Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Matthew J]

White makes wonderful stuff.  

If you absolutely need to have whisper quiet high end hubs, check out 
Royce.  Not sure what they do differently than White, King or Phil, but 
their hubs are very quiet and roll very smooth.  

Royce are pricey little devils though.  As far as I know, the only way to 
get them is to go to one of the high end UK on line shops.


Yeah, they're quieter than Chris Kings--more along the lines of Campy, and 
 they have a very precision-instrument, high-quality ratchet sound.  Quite 
 nice.  I resisted Boutique hubs for a long time, in favor of good ol' 
 Shimano.  But I'd have a hard time not spec'ing WI for my next wheel 
 build.  Quite impressed with them.

 Steve  



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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Brewster Fong]

On Thursday, May 31, 2012 6:57:38 PM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote:

 White makes wonderful stuff.  

 If you absolutely need to have whisper quiet high end hubs, check out 
 Royce.  Not sure what they do differently than White, King or Phil, but 
 their hubs are very quiet and roll very smooth.  


If you want quiet, smooth and cheap hubs get Shimano. I have two pair of DA 
hub wheels and they are so smooth and quiet. I have friends with ultegra 
hubs and they're quiet too. Compare to alot of boutique hubs, these are the 
best.


 Royce are pricey little devils though.  As far as I know, the only way to 
 get them is to go to one of the high end UK on line shops.


At Total Cycling, Royce rear hub sells for about $255. Still cheaper than 
say CK and a bit less than a White Ind.hub. Good luck!
 



 Yeah, they're quieter than Chris Kings--more along the lines of Campy, and 
 they have a very precision-instrument, high-quality ratchet sound.  Quite 
 nice.  I resisted Boutique hubs for a long time, in favor of good ol' 
 Shimano.  But I'd have a hard time not spec'ing WI for my next wheel 
 build.  Quite impressed with them.

 Steve  



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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Ablejack]

Beautiful bike. Deserves such a beautiful crankset. The RH is (IMO) the 
finest gem of any crank available. 
/My brother and I ride Salukis. I have a TA Pro-Vis (46-28) on mine, while 
he has the RH (46-30). 


On Sunday, May 27, 2012 3:36:06 AM UTC-4, stonehog wrote:

 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse 
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html  I haven't 
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have 
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike 
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.   

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit 
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length 
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.  
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.  

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as 
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT 
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.   
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and 
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
 frame.  

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered 
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.  
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go 
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding 
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA


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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Matthew J]

Decidedly hope not.  Many expensive products have less expensive 
alternatives.  People willing to pay for Rivendell may well decide the 
Sugino is the best crank for their purposes.  But if the Herse fits the 
rider's needs better, worrying about the price difference after shelling 
out for a Riv does not really make sense.
On Monday, May 28, 2012 6:01:16 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: 

 Is this a race to the bottom? 

 On Mon, 2012-05-28 at 15:59 -0700, Matthew J wrote: 
  Yes, and it's my opinion (a fact actually, but keeping with the theme) 
  one can buy a Kona for a lot less than a Rivendell. 
  
  On Monday, May 28, 2012 9:05:00 AM UTC-5, SISDDWG wrote: 
  Sugino XD Triple = $119. Rene Herse $440. Difference = $321. 
  That is a 
  huge difference. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that 
  everyone was 
  touting the XD as a really good crank. IMO it still is, not 
  saying the 
  Herse isn't better. But think about it -- $321 more. That can 
  buy a 
  lot of chains, tires, lube, whatever and keep you rolling for 
  quite 
  some time. Just my opinion. 
  
  On May 27, 12:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
   I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the 
  new Rene Herse 
   cranks on my AHH. 
   http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't 
   seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a 
  few 
   thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a 
  crankoholic, and have 
   mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to 
  upgrade the bike 
   a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice 
  add.  Something 
   that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
   
   I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, 
  and was a bit 
   worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far 
  that has not 
   worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and 
  natural.  The length 
   of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be 
  ideal for me. 
   I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another 
  bike over the 
   175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
   
   The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and 
  every bit as 
   good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and 
  thick, but 
   elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the 
  others I've used 
   lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern 
  Shimano Deore and XT 
   cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have 
  on my mtb. 
   They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly 
  polished finish, and 
   simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the 
  Rivendell 
   frame. 
   
   It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, 
  so I ordered 
   one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had 
  on already. 
   They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm 
  clearance with the 
   chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 
  44/28 rings to go 
   with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for 
  the hilly riding 
   I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these. 
   Love em! 
   
   Pics: 
   
   http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
   
   Brian 
   Seattle, WA 
  
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RE: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Mark Chandler]

There's always this:http://store.somafab.com/suoxcoplrocr.html 

Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 08:43:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank
From: cyclotour...@gmail.com
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com

Without disregarding the financial impact, that $320 difference is 10% of a 
$3200 bike (AHH + Riv build kit). Custom paint, Honjos, WI hubs is putting it 
closer to $4K. If the light weight, low-Q  unique looks are what you're after, 
not really a deal breaker. 

For me, the proprietary chainrings would be a bigger concern over time. Sort of 
thing to stock up on IMHO. The old adage of if you find something you really 
like, buy a life-time supply as they'll quit making it at some 
point.s.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
  

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Jan Heine]

On May 28, 8:43 am, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:

 For me, the proprietary chainrings would be a bigger concern over time.
 Sort of thing to stock up on IMHO. The old adage of if you find something
 you really like, buy a life-time supply as they'll quit making it at some
 point.

The new René Herse chainrings are made from 7075 aluminum. They should
last much, much longer than most other rings. I used to get about
25-30,000 miles of racing out of Campagnolo chainrings, and these are
designed to last as long. We optimized the tooth profile of the small
rings for long wear. (The big rings are optimized for easier
upshifts.) So a lifetime supply of chainrings may well be one set of
rings for many riders.

Furthermore, we don't have plans to change designs for the sake of
changing, so we'll offer the rings as long as we remain in business,
which hopefully will be a long time. In fact, our new rings even fit
on classic René Herse cranks made since the 1960s. I suspect it will
be much harder to find the special chainrings for Campagnolo compact
or Shimano's high-end cranks in a decade or two. And quality 110 mm
rings always have been thin on the ground. (Sugino's rings are not
quite as soft as butter, but I rarely got more than 5000 miles out of
them.)

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles Ltd.
http://www.compasscycle.com

Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Bruce Herbitter]

The White M-15 hub is quite noticeable noise wise. I don't find that it
bothers me though.

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 5:34 PM, GeorgeS chobur...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is
 said to be so noisy?  What is your experience?

 GeorgeS
 New Orleans


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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[SISDDWG]

Sugino XD Triple = $119. Rene Herse $440. Difference = $321. That is a
huge difference. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that everyone was
touting the XD as a really good crank. IMO it still is, not saying the
Herse isn't better. But think about it -- $321 more. That can buy a
lot of chains, tires, lube, whatever and keep you rolling for quite
some time. Just my opinion.

On May 27, 12:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
 frame.

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[cyclotourist]

Without disregarding the financial impact, that $320 difference is 10% of a
$3200 bike (AHH + Riv build kit). Custom paint, Honjos, WI hubs is putting
it closer to $4K. If the light weight, low-Q  unique looks are what you're
after, not really a deal breaker.
For me, the proprietary chainrings would be a bigger concern over time.
Sort of thing to stock up on IMHO. The old adage of if you find something
you really like, buy a life-time supply as they'll quit making it at some
point.

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 7:05 AM, SISDDWG dgen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sugino XD Triple = $119. Rene Herse $440. Difference = $321. That is a
 huge difference. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that everyone was
 touting the XD as a really good crank. IMO it still is, not saying the
 Herse isn't better. But think about it -- $321 more. That can buy a
 lot of chains, tires, lube, whatever and keep you rolling for quite
 some time. Just my opinion.

 On May 27, 12:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the
 bike
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.
 
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a
 bit
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The
 length
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for
 me.
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.
 
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and
 XT
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish,
 and
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
  frame.
 
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly
 riding
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!
 
  Pics:
 
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw
 
  Brian
  Seattle, WA

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Cheers,
David
Redlands, CA

**
“I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America
that’s the America millions of Americans believe in. That’s the America I
love.”

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Bruce Herbitter]

Funny, I just put my old XD triple (50/36/26) back on the Rambouillet with
an 11 - 30 SRAM cluster after a couple of years riding an upper scale
Ultegra (52/42/30) with a SHMINAO 13 - 28.  I caught myself thinking how
much better I like the XD..

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 9:05 AM, SISDDWG dgen...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sugino XD Triple = $119. Rene Herse $440. Difference = $321. That is a
 huge difference. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that everyone was
 touting the XD as a really good crank.


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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Matthew J]

Yes, and it's my opinion (a fact actually, but keeping with the theme) one 
can buy a Kona for a lot less than a Rivendell.

On Monday, May 28, 2012 9:05:00 AM UTC-5, SISDDWG wrote:

 Sugino XD Triple = $119. Rene Herse $440. Difference = $321. That is a 
 huge difference. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that everyone was 
 touting the XD as a really good crank. IMO it still is, not saying the 
 Herse isn't better. But think about it -- $321 more. That can buy a 
 lot of chains, tires, lube, whatever and keep you rolling for quite 
 some time. Just my opinion. 

 On May 27, 12:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene 
 Herse 
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't 
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and 
 have 
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the 
 bike 
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
  
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a 
 bit 
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The 
 length 
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for 
 me. 
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
  
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit 
 as 
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and 
 XT 
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb. 
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, 
 and 
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
  frame. 
  
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I 
 ordered 
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already. 
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to 
 go 
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly 
 riding 
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em! 
  
  Pics: 
  
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
  
  Brian 
  Seattle, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Steve Palincsar]

Is this a race to the bottom?

On Mon, 2012-05-28 at 15:59 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
 Yes, and it's my opinion (a fact actually, but keeping with the theme)
 one can buy a Kona for a lot less than a Rivendell.
 
 On Monday, May 28, 2012 9:05:00 AM UTC-5, SISDDWG wrote:
 Sugino XD Triple = $119. Rene Herse $440. Difference = $321.
 That is a 
 huge difference. Remember, it wasn't that long ago that
 everyone was 
 touting the XD as a really good crank. IMO it still is, not
 saying the 
 Herse isn't better. But think about it -- $321 more. That can
 buy a 
 lot of chains, tires, lube, whatever and keep you rolling for
 quite 
 some time. Just my opinion. 
 
 On May 27, 12:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the
 new Rene Herse 
  cranks on my AHH.
  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't 
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a
 few 
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a
 crankoholic, and have 
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to
 upgrade the bike 
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice
 add.  Something 
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
  
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike,
 and was a bit 
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far
 that has not 
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and
 natural.  The length 
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be
 ideal for me. 
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another
 bike over the 
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
  
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and
 every bit as 
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and
 thick, but 
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the
 others I've used 
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern
 Shimano Deore and XT 
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have
 on my mtb. 
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly
 polished finish, and 
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the
 Rivendell 
  frame. 
  
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket,
 so I ordered 
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had
 on already. 
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm
 clearance with the 
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got
 44/28 rings to go 
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for
 the hilly riding 
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.
  Love em! 
  
  Pics: 
  
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
  
  Brian 
  Seattle, WA
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Eric Platt]

Maybe a race to the bottom bracket.

Can understand why folks would pay the premium for a low Q nicely made
crankset.  Not all of us need low Q, though.  Have no problems with Sugino
XD2 on a 110 bottom bracket on my Sam Hillborne.  But that would have a
huge Q factor for many.  For my use, it's more comfortable.

(Was going to compare it to 650B, but am not going there again.)

Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 6:01 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 Is this a race to the bottom?



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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Michael Hechmer]

Thanks for sharing.  I have been thinking about a new crank for an '84 Trek 
I still ride and your review is helpful.  I assme that the double could be 
converted to triple?  I think your 44/28 set up makes a lot of sense, 
although I find I much prefer the shifting pattern with a 14 tooth drop 
over a 16.  I run a 44/30 White Ind. crank on my Ram and really like it.   
I'm considering it, or the DaVinci Crank, which is actually made by White.

BTW, very nicely set up bike.

Michael

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 3:36:06 AM UTC-4, stonehog wrote:

 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse 
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html  I haven't 
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have 
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike 
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.   

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit 
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length 
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.  
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.  

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as 
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT 
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.   
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and 
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
 frame.  

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered 
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.  
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go 
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding 
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA


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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Mitch Browne]

Brian,

When you say chain line is adequate do you mean OK or that if you had a 
110 BB that you would use that?

I experimented with a TA Carmina triple recently purchased from the list on 
my Atlantis last week and don't know if it was mental but thought the lower 
Q factor felt better than my XD2.

Sadly I won't be keeping it and will be posting it for sale soon.

Nice ride.

Mitch Browne
San Luis Obispo

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:36:06 AM UTC-7, stonehog wrote:

 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse 
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html  I haven't 
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have 
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike 
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.   

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit 
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length 
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.  
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.  

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as 
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT 
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.   
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and 
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
 frame.  

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered 
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.  
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go 
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding 
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA


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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Tim McNamara]

On May 27, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Mitch Browne wrote:
 
 When you say chain line is adequate do you mean OK or that if you had a 110 
 BB that you would use that?

Chainline isn't that critical when one has multiple cogs on the rear wheel.  
Modern chains are designed to be run-off line and to tolerate that just fine; 
chainline is more of an issue with stiff single speed chains (and even those 
are much more laterally flexible than the chains of yore).  As long as the 
chainrings is lined up roughly in the middle of the cassette, that's good 
enough.

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[RoadieRyan]

Brian,

Beautiful bike, very nice setup.  How do you like those pedals?  I use
the PD M324's and like their classic looks and versatility but have
wondered about the A530's which look very sleek.

On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
 frame.

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[PATRICK MOORE]

I think the new Herse crank is even nicer than the Pro 5 Vis that I
use on my Rivs, AND they have modern hardware and adequate room
between outer ring and inner arm for modern derailleurs. If I ever get
a nice derailleur bike, those will be at the top of the list.

And $400: when you consider that the new DA cranks (+ bb) cost $100
more, that's not bad at all for a top end crank. And, IMO, these are
far better looking than any other modern crankset.

To Ryan: I've used both A530s and M324s and prefer the latter because
I found the flat side more usable. Personally, I also think the
silver M324 looks better, too (I've got one pair of silvers hoarded
after I got rid of my A530s and my black M324).

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 12:05 PM, RoadieRyan ryansub...@gmail.com wrote:
 Brian,

 Beautiful bike, very nice setup.  How do you like those pedals?  I use
 the PD M324's and like their classic looks and versatility but have
 wondered about the A530's which look very sleek.

 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
 frame.

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA

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-- 
Push back against the age as hard as it pushes against you.

Flannery O'Connor

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Joe Broach]

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 6:38 AM, Mitch Browne mitch.bro...@gmail.com wrote:
 When you say chain line is adequate do you mean OK or that if you had a
 110 BB that you would use that?

For the hairsplitters, 107 and 110(.5) Shimano-style cartridge BBs
generally give the same chainline. The 107 is offset to the drive
side, and the 110 is symmetric. The same is true with 113/115/116 and
118/121. I found this out empirically when I tried to nudge the
chainline out a couple of mm on my Romulus by swapping a 115 and then
a 116 for my 113. Nothing changed on the drive side!

I assume other brands that copy Shimano are the same, but I'd be
interested to hear otherwise. And, who knows, standards aren't exactly
standards in the bike world, but I wouldn't expect 107 - 110 to
affect chainline.

Best,
joe broach
portland, or

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Joe Broach]

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 12:54 PM, Joe Broach joebro...@gmail.com wrote:

Reading what I wrote a little too late. I take that back on the
118/121. I've never actually handled a 121. Do they even exist?

Best,
joe broach
portland, or

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[GeorgeS]

I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is
said to be so noisy?  What is your experience?

GeorgeS
New Orleans

On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse
 cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't
 seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
 thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have
 mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike
 a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something
 that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.

 I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit
 worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
 worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length
 of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me.
 I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
 175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.

 The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as
 good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
 elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
 lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT
 cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
 They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and
 simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
 frame.

 It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered
 one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
 They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the
 chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go
 with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding
 I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!

 Pics:

 http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw

 Brian
 Seattle, WA

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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Brian Hanson]

Ryan - I like the A530s.  Use both sides all the time on two bikes.  The
platforms are grippy, and I mainly use them on the commute.  Nice to have
options :)

On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:05 AM, RoadieRyan ryansub...@gmail.com wrote:

 Brian,

 Beautiful bike, very nice setup.  How do you like those pedals?  I use
 the PD M324's and like their classic looks and versatility but have
 wondered about the A530's which look very sleek.

 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the
 bike
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps.
 
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a
 bit
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The
 length
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for
 me.
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years.
 
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and
 XT
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb.
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish,
 and
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell
  frame.
 
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already.
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly
 riding
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em!
 
  Pics:
 
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw
 
  Brian
  Seattle, WA

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Michael Hechmer]

My White Hubs sound noisy in the shop, but on the road, above 15mph the 
sound is hardly noticeable, and in any case is a white noise kind of hum, 
not a click or rattle.

Michael

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:34:25 PM UTC-4, GeorgeS wrote:

 I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is 
 said to be so noisy?  What is your experience? 

 GeorgeS 
 New Orleans 

 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene 
 Herse 
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't 
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and 
 have 
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the 
 bike 
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
  
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a 
 bit 
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The 
 length 
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for 
 me. 
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
  
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit 
 as 
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and 
 XT 
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb. 
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, 
 and 
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
  frame. 
  
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I 
 ordered 
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already. 
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to 
 go 
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly 
 riding 
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em! 
  
  Pics: 
  
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
  
  Brian 
  Seattle, WA

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Matthew J]

That would be the Chris King.  In fact, CK has built a whole marketing 
campaign around the 'angry bees' sound some claim come from the hubs.

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:34:25 PM UTC-5, GeorgeS wrote:

 I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is 
 said to be so noisy?  What is your experience? 

 GeorgeS 
 New Orleans 

 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene 
 Herse 
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't 
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and 
 have 
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the 
 bike 
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
  
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a 
 bit 
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The 
 length 
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for 
 me. 
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
  
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit 
 as 
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and 
 XT 
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb. 
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, 
 and 
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
  frame. 
  
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I 
 ordered 
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already. 
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to 
 go 
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly 
 riding 
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em! 
  
  Pics: 
  
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
  
  Brian 
  Seattle, WA

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[RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[William]

They have a King Hub ringtone!  

On Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:46:43 PM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote:

 That would be the Chris King.  In fact, CK has built a whole marketing 
 campaign around the 'angry bees' sound some claim come from the hubs.

 On Sunday, May 27, 2012 5:34:25 PM UTC-5, GeorgeS wrote:

 I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is 
 said to be so noisy?  What is your experience? 

 GeorgeS 
 New Orleans 

 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene 
 Herse 
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I 
 haven't 
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and 
 have 
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the 
 bike 
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add. 
  Something 
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
  
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a 
 bit 
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The 
 length 
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for 
 me. 
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
  
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit 
 as 
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore 
 and XT 
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb. 
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, 
 and 
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
  frame. 
  
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I 
 ordered 
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already. 
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with 
 the 
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to 
 go 
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly 
 riding 
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em! 
  
  Pics: 
  
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
  
  Brian 
  Seattle, WA



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Re: [RBW] Re: rene herse crank

[Stonehog]

I agree.  It clicks more than the Shimano XT I had before, but is nowhere near 
Chris King loud.  Quite nice hub, but it's brand new, so time will tell. I 
don't find the noise to be noticeable. 

Brian Hanson

On May 27, 2012, at 4:36 PM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote:

 My White Hubs sound noisy in the shop, but on the road, above 15mph the sound 
 is hardly noticeable, and in any case is a white noise kind of hum, not a 
 click or rattle.
 
 Michael
 
 On Sunday, May 27, 2012 6:34:25 PM UTC-4, GeorgeS wrote:
 I'm curious about the White Industries hub.  Is that the one that is 
 said to be so noisy?  What is your experience? 
 
 GeorgeS 
 New Orleans 
 
 On May 27, 3:36 am, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote: 
  I've been commuting for the past few weeks with one of the new Rene Herse 
  cranks on my AHH.  http://www.compasscycle.com/cranks_bb.html I haven't 
  seen any reviews on this yet, so I figured I would share a few 
  thoughts/opinions with the group.  I'm not really a crankoholic, and have 
  mainly ridden wider Q mountain cranks.  I mainly wanted to upgrade the bike 
  a bit, and thought a well built crankset would be a nice add.  Something 
  that would last as long as the frame, perhaps. 
  
  I've never had any experience with a narrow tread road bike, and was a bit 
  worried that having a narrow Q would be a problem.  So far that has not 
  worked out to be the case.  I find it comfortable, and natural.  The length 
  of these are 171mm, which is close to what I'm finding to be ideal for me. 
  I tend to lately favor the 170mm cranks I have on another bike over the 
  175mm I've been using for the past 20 years. 
  
  The finish and feel of these cranks is indeed very nice, and every bit as 
  good as it has been billed.  The chainrings are nice and thick, but 
  elegant.  To me, these cranks feel more solid than the others I've used 
  lately including Sugino XD, Suntour XC Pro, and modern Shimano Deore and XT 
  cranks, as well as a Race Face outboard bearing set I have on my mtb. 
  They are very nice to look at, as well, with a highly polished finish, and 
  simple, clean and classy lines that go really well with the Rivendell 
  frame. 
  
  It was recommended by Jan that I use a 110mm bottom bracket, so I ordered 
  one, but decided to try the cranks with a 107mm that I had on already. 
  They went on easily, and the arms have at least 3-5mm clearance with the 
  chainstays.  The chainline is adequate, as well.  I got 44/28 rings to go 
  with an 11-32 cassette.  This gives me plenty of range for the hilly riding 
  I do in the area.  Bottom line - I highly recommend these.  Love em! 
  
  Pics: 
  
  http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzzumnw 
  
  Brian 
  Seattle, WA
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