[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Justin August]

My Krampus is a medium. Hit me up off list if you're interested. 

-Justin

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

When VO previewed the Camargue, I thought I had found my bike.  Similar 
capabilities to a KM/Ogre but in the form of a more normal bike.  It was 
quite literally a much less expensive Hunqapillar in all but looks. 
 Unfortunately, I kept hearing about QC problems with that particular bike 
and for whatever reason, VO discontinued it.  I haven't heard any issues 
about any of their other bikes and the Piolet is interesting but I don't 
have disk compatible wheels or I would have considered it before I bought 
my KM.



On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:55:13 PM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>
> Ogre Vs. Hunq.?
> I would say go with the Surly! Why? Well, they are inexpensive &as you've 
> figured out the Surly & the Hunq. sort of overlap a little. So get the 
> Surly, then a little later get an Atlantis or Cheviot to do the things the 
> Surly is not so good at.
> Actually, let me muddy the water a little more and suggest you look at the 
> SOMA Wolverine and the Velo Orange Piolet!
> Just to confuse you a little more! ;-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I've decided that I want black rims that are much wider than my Dyads and I 
might 650B my Karate Monkey.  I believe the new KM's have about 55 mm of BB 
drop and my KM has 68 mm.  I don't think I'll ever run anything less than 
2" tires so the effect would be a slightly lower BB, lower trail on the 
front-end and more tire clearance, all positives in my book.  I'm pretty 
sure 27.5+ tires will fit a KM/Ogre.  I would even consider going 26" 
wheels if I went with Extraterrestrials.  I've ridden a 700c bike with 26" 
x 55 mm Big Apples and there were no problems.  




On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 5:54:47 PM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> Chris that does look pretty significant and if you can go 29+ or 27.5+ in 
> the front that would allow for some significantly different off-road 
> capabilities. Also interesting about your experience with the 73mm bb, I 
> think the full day bikes are around 100mm which would be more noticeable.  
> Is really like to test ride a '17 Karate Monkey in 27.5+.
>
> Masmojo the Piolet and Wolverine are solid additions for consideration... 
> Good call!
>
> Tony
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016, 18:16 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> My Karate Monkey is my only bike and it has a 73mm BB shell.  To be 
>> honest, if I hadn't installed the bottom bracket and crankset, I would have 
>> never known it was not 68mm.  I don't know, but I suspect that I'm built 
>> for a larger Q factor, anyway.  I think road Q factor cranks would be very 
>> uncomfortable for me.  The wider BB shell might also add to the stiffness 
>> of the frame, but I'm not sure about that. 
>>
>> My understanding is that the Ogre/Karate Monkey will actually fit a 29+ 
>> tire on the front.  It's just the rear that is limited to 2.5".  Check out 
>> Surly's Extraterrestrial 2.5" tire, it is massive compared to a normal MTB 
>> tire.   This is a 26" Extraterrestrial next to a Mondial.  He doesn't 
>> specify the width of the Mondial but he seems to imply it's a 2" tire.  
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On the bike   
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:04:19 PM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>>
>>> Chris L or anyone w/ experience.  The ECR has a wider BB shell, 73 vice 
>>> 68... seems pretty negligible but I've never ridden a wider BB myself.  If 
>>> the ECR is your 'only bike' would you be ok w/ the wider tread?  
>>>
>>> Several have mentioned the Ogre fits larger tires, 2.5 vs 2.25(ish).  
>>> I'm really curious what the collective thought is on how much added 
>>> capability that 2.25-2.5" tire gets you as I'm sitting at 2.25" myself w/ 
>>> the Bombadil and I've kind of been thinking that 3" is really the minimum 
>>> wider tire I'd target if I wanted more offroad chops.  
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:41 PM, RJM  wrote:
>>>
>> Well, the Krampus is a 29+ bike that is going to sit around 30lbs, so 
 yeah, it will be heavy. The one I rode was fun though...I think the 
 geometry of it and the grip of the really fat tires helps hide the weight. 
 (same with the Ros 9+ which I find to be a nicer bike than the Krampus).

 Sometimes weight has a way of not being that big of a deal, but you are 
 right...when the terrain overwhelms the weight it really does make a 
 difference. 

 On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:

>   It sounds like a "tank" , literally !   Yeah, weight does not matter 
> until it kind of,* overwhelms* the matter !  
>
> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:46:35 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>>
>> Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I 
>> would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The 
>> weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to 
>> understand. 
>>
>> If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know. 
>>
>> -Justin
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Patrick Moore]

73 mm was the standard, or a standard, bb shell width for mountain bikes
back in the early '90s, if not at other times. Both my Stumpjumper Comp and
SJ Team had 73 mm shells, and IIRC, that made no discernible difference to
the Q of the cranksets of the time. I may well have inadvertently installed
73 mm bbs in 68 mm shells at one point or another, with no sign other than
a few more threads sticking out on the non drive side. At any rate, 5 mm
was too small a difference to notice, especially given the differences in Q
caused by variation in the "flare" of the arms on different cranks.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Tony DeFilippo  wrote:

>  Also interesting about your experience with the 73mm bb, I think the full
> day bikes are around 100mm which would be more noticeable.  Is really like
> to test ride a '17 Karate Monkey in 27.5+.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Tony DeFilippo]

Chris that does look pretty significant and if you can go 29+ or 27.5+ in
the front that would allow for some significantly different off-road
capabilities. Also interesting about your experience with the 73mm bb, I
think the full day bikes are around 100mm which would be more noticeable.
Is really like to test ride a '17 Karate Monkey in 27.5+.

Masmojo the Piolet and Wolverine are solid additions for consideration...
Good call!

Tony

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016, 18:16 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> My Karate Monkey is my only bike and it has a 73mm BB shell.  To be
> honest, if I hadn't installed the bottom bracket and crankset, I would have
> never known it was not 68mm.  I don't know, but I suspect that I'm built
> for a larger Q factor, anyway.  I think road Q factor cranks would be very
> uncomfortable for me.  The wider BB shell might also add to the stiffness
> of the frame, but I'm not sure about that.
>
> My understanding is that the Ogre/Karate Monkey will actually fit a 29+
> tire on the front.  It's just the rear that is limited to 2.5".  Check out
> Surly's Extraterrestrial 2.5" tire, it is massive compared to a normal MTB
> tire.   This is a 26" Extraterrestrial next to a Mondial.  He doesn't
> specify the width of the Mondial but he seems to imply it's a 2" tire.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> On the bike
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:04:19 PM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> Chris L or anyone w/ experience.  The ECR has a wider BB shell, 73 vice
> 68... seems pretty negligible but I've never ridden a wider BB myself.  If
> the ECR is your 'only bike' would you be ok w/ the wider tread?
>
> Several have mentioned the Ogre fits larger tires, 2.5 vs 2.25(ish).  I'm
> really curious what the collective thought is on how much added capability
> that 2.25-2.5" tire gets you as I'm sitting at 2.25" myself w/ the Bombadil
> and I've kind of been thinking that 3" is really the minimum wider tire I'd
> target if I wanted more offroad chops.
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:41 PM, RJM  wrote:
>
> Well, the Krampus is a 29+ bike that is going to sit around 30lbs, so
> yeah, it will be heavy. The one I rode was fun though...I think the
> geometry of it and the grip of the really fat tires helps hide the weight.
> (same with the Ros 9+ which I find to be a nicer bike than the Krampus).
>
> Sometimes weight has a way of not being that big of a deal, but you are
> right...when the terrain overwhelms the weight it really does make a
> difference.
>
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>   It sounds like a "tank" , literally !   Yeah, weight does not matter
> until it kind of,* overwhelms* the matter !
>
> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:46:35 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>
> Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I
> would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The
> weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to
> understand.
>
> If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know.
>
> -Justin
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

My Karate Monkey is my only bike and it has a 73mm BB shell.  To be honest, 
if I hadn't installed the bottom bracket and crankset, I would have never 
known it was not 68mm.  I don't know, but I suspect that I'm built for a 
larger Q factor, anyway.  I think road Q factor cranks would be very 
uncomfortable for me.  The wider BB shell might also add to the stiffness 
of the frame, but I'm not sure about that. 

My understanding is that the Ogre/Karate Monkey will actually fit a 29+ 
tire on the front.  It's just the rear that is limited to 2.5".  Check out 
Surly's Extraterrestrial 2.5" tire, it is massive compared to a normal MTB 
tire.   This is a 26" Extraterrestrial next to a Mondial.  He doesn't 
specify the width of the Mondial but he seems to imply it's a 2" tire.  










On the bike   



On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 3:04:19 PM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> Chris L or anyone w/ experience.  The ECR has a wider BB shell, 73 vice 
> 68... seems pretty negligible but I've never ridden a wider BB myself.  If 
> the ECR is your 'only bike' would you be ok w/ the wider tread?  
>
> Several have mentioned the Ogre fits larger tires, 2.5 vs 2.25(ish).  I'm 
> really curious what the collective thought is on how much added capability 
> that 2.25-2.5" tire gets you as I'm sitting at 2.25" myself w/ the Bombadil 
> and I've kind of been thinking that 3" is really the minimum wider tire I'd 
> target if I wanted more offroad chops.  
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:41 PM, RJM > 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, the Krampus is a 29+ bike that is going to sit around 30lbs, so 
>> yeah, it will be heavy. The one I rode was fun though...I think the 
>> geometry of it and the grip of the really fat tires helps hide the weight. 
>> (same with the Ros 9+ which I find to be a nicer bike than the Krampus).
>>
>> Sometimes weight has a way of not being that big of a deal, but you are 
>> right...when the terrain overwhelms the weight it really does make a 
>> difference. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>>
>>>   It sounds like a "tank" , literally !   Yeah, weight does not matter 
>>> until it kind of,* overwhelms* the matter !  
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:46:35 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:

 Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I 
 would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The 
 weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to 
 understand. 

 If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know. 

 -Justin

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>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[masmojo]

Ogre Vs. Hunq.?
I would say go with the Surly! Why? Well, they are inexpensive &as you've 
figured out the Surly & the Hunq. sort of overlap a little. So get the Surly, 
then a little later get an Atlantis or Cheviot to do the things the Surly is 
not so good at.
Actually, let me muddy the water a little more and suggest you look at the SOMA 
Wolverine and the Velo Orange Piolet!
Just to confuse you a little more! ;-)

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Tony DeFilippo]

Chris L or anyone w/ experience.  The ECR has a wider BB shell, 73 vice
68... seems pretty negligible but I've never ridden a wider BB myself.  If
the ECR is your 'only bike' would you be ok w/ the wider tread?

Several have mentioned the Ogre fits larger tires, 2.5 vs 2.25(ish).  I'm
really curious what the collective thought is on how much added capability
that 2.25-2.5" tire gets you as I'm sitting at 2.25" myself w/ the Bombadil
and I've kind of been thinking that 3" is really the minimum wider tire I'd
target if I wanted more offroad chops.


On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 1:41 PM, RJM  wrote:

> Well, the Krampus is a 29+ bike that is going to sit around 30lbs, so
> yeah, it will be heavy. The one I rode was fun though...I think the
> geometry of it and the grip of the really fat tires helps hide the weight.
> (same with the Ros 9+ which I find to be a nicer bike than the Krampus).
>
> Sometimes weight has a way of not being that big of a deal, but you are
> right...when the terrain overwhelms the weight it really does make a
> difference.
>
> On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>>   It sounds like a "tank" , literally !   Yeah, weight does not matter
>> until it kind of,* overwhelms* the matter !
>>
>> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:46:35 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>>>
>>> Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I
>>> would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The
>>> weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to
>>> understand.
>>>
>>> If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know.
>>>
>>> -Justin
>>>
>>> --
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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[RJM]

Well, the Krampus is a 29+ bike that is going to sit around 30lbs, so yeah, 
it will be heavy. The one I rode was fun though...I think the geometry of 
it and the grip of the really fat tires helps hide the weight. (same with 
the Ros 9+ which I find to be a nicer bike than the Krampus).

Sometimes weight has a way of not being that big of a deal, but you are 
right...when the terrain overwhelms the weight it really does make a 
difference. 

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-5, Garth wrote:

>   It sounds like a "tank" , literally !   Yeah, weight does not matter 
> until it kind of,* overwhelms* the matter !  
>
> On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:46:35 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>>
>> Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I 
>> would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The 
>> weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to 
>> understand. 
>>
>> If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know. 
>>
>> -Justin
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Ryan Ray]

Being that you are in the Riv group, dissenting opinions are going to be 
hard to find here.

But, I have an Ogre and have ridden a ton of Surlys and owned 1 Riv.

- The Ogre will be a little bit more stout but not by as much as people 
here are saying.
- The Ogre will ride better with weight on it. I actually don't like the 
dead feeling much either but once there is weight on it, it feels great.
- The Ogre fits much larger tires.
- The Ogre is FAR more capable off road than the Hunq will ever be. 
Specially if you are on the tall side and might use longer cranks.
- You won't cry a little bit every time you get mud or a ding in your paint 
with the Ogre.


If you want" just one bike" get the Riv. If you are looking for something 
to take off road for extended periods of time get the Ogre. If they were 
the same price I'd still get the Ogre specifically for off road touring and 
MTB trails.

- Ryan


 

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 8:46:23 AM UTC-7, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I also have a Krampus for sale.  Small frame.  Sorry for the glomming on to 
this thread!

On Tuesday, October 4, 2016 at 11:14:54 AM UTC-4, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> Speaking of the Krampus, it's brother the ECR is also something to 
> consider and I would probably choose it over the Ogre.  The ECR has 80 mm 
> of bottom bracket drop (same as Hunq) and the chainstays are 45.1 cm 
> slammed forward and would be 46.5 cm with Monkey Nuts installed.  I would 
> buy a frameset and build it up with normal MTB size (2.2 to 2.5") tires but 
> the option would always be there to do the whole 29+ thing.  The word back 
> on the ECR is that it's long, low and stable.  
>
> I'm not sure how heavy the ECR is but my Karate Monkey, as a single-speed 
> with 40 spoke touring wheels and 40mm Duremes weighed 24 lbs or less.  
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this 
>> bike to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with 
>> it - ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
>> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
>> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
>> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
>> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
>> thoughts. Thanks!   
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Speaking of the Krampus, it's brother the ECR is also something to consider 
and I would probably choose it over the Ogre.  The ECR has 80 mm of bottom 
bracket drop (same as Hunq) and the chainstays are 45.1 cm slammed forward 
and would be 46.5 cm with Monkey Nuts installed.  I would buy a frameset 
and build it up with normal MTB size (2.2 to 2.5") tires but the option 
would always be there to do the whole 29+ thing.  The word back on the ECR 
is that it's long, low and stable.  

I'm not sure how heavy the ECR is but my Karate Monkey, as a single-speed 
with 40 spoke touring wheels and 40mm Duremes weighed 24 lbs or less.  



On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Garth]

  It sounds like a "tank" , literally !   Yeah, weight does not matter 
until it kind of,* overwhelms* the matter !  

On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 11:46:35 PM UTC-4, Justin August wrote:
>
> Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I 
> would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The 
> weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to 
> understand. 
>
> If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know. 
>
> -Justin
>
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[RJM]

What size?

On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 10:46:35 PM UTC-5, Justin August wrote:
>
> Owning a Krampus I can say that they are heavy. Like really heavy.  I 
> would definitely test ride the Surly to see if it's what you want. The 
> weight and lack of response to pedaling needs to be experienced to 
> understand. 
>
> If anyone wants to buy a nicely equipped Krampus let me know. 
>
> -Justin
>
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[adam leibow]

i got myself a hunqapillar as my first rivendell, and selected and 
inspected an ogre for my dad, which he now rides daily and loves. honestly, 
this is a great "problem" to have because they are both great bikes. 
however, hunqapillar screams "forever bike" way more than ogre. the 
versatility of the hunqapillar is incredible: mountain bike, touring bike, 
mountain touring bike, grocery getter, commuter, and all while being a 
classically styled lugged american-handmade steel show-worthy bicycle. of 
course the ogre can do all of the tasks the hunqapillar can, but you don't 
get that romantic sensation you get from riding a rivendell. 

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 8:46:23 AM UTC-7, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Austin ^]

While I generally agree with this sentiment, the exact opposite has 
happened to me. Hell on the joints. 

On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 1:32:39 PM UTC-7, Will wrote:
>
> You will age into a riding profile of more general commuting, errand 
> running, regular trail and road riding. You will age out of gnarly. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Bill Lindsay]

"I want this bike to be the last one I own"

Gosh, what a depressing thought.  Granted there will be a bike that ends up 
being the last one I buy, but I will never *want* a bike to be my last 
bike.  

Bill "I-buy-bikes-therefore-I-am" Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 8:46:23 AM UTC-7, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Will]

Well... if this selection is the LAST bike, you want the Riv. You will age 
into a riding profile of more general commuting, errand running, regular 
trail and road riding. You will age out of gnarly. 

I don't have a Hunq, I have an Atlantis. Close enough. You will never 
regret having a beautiful, very competent, frame. 


On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I should have specified that I weigh 385 so stiffer = better is specific to 
my situation.  The most responsive bike I've ever ridden was one made of 
oversized aluminum tubes.  That thing was like a rocket for me...but 
aluminum  :(  

This is actually my largest reservation about any Riv.  I look at the 
skinny little chainstays on even the Hunqapillar and wonder if it's going 
to be a noodle under me.   




On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 12:14:34 AM UTC-5, drew wrote:
>
> I have a hunq. I've never ridden an ogre. I got it to be a dedicated 
> touring bike, and it does that so well, But it really excels at so many 
> things and is the best riding and most comfortable bike I've ever been on. 
> I ride it on road rides regularly because it's just that much more fun to 
> be on (albeit heavier).
> Couple things- *I can't imagine wanting a bike any stiffer. *
> I take mine on trails, fire roads, all sorts of surfaces and never worry, 
> but I don't think it is the best option if mtb riding is the main priority. 
> it's more of a stout all purpose bike, in my opinion.

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[RJM]

Really think about how much trail riding you will be doing and if that 
trail riding will be sort of aggressive single track with roots, rocks, 
switchbacks, a little air time with steep descents and ascents. If you 
think you will be riding frequently like that, get the bike that has disc 
brake tabs and install a set of hydraulic brakes like Shimano (xt and slx 
are very good brakes). IMHO, they are a huge improvement in every way, even 
safety, over cantis, v-brakes, or even mechanical disc for that type of 
riding.

It's not an Ogre, but I had the pleasure of riding a Surly Krampus this 
past weekend. Man, that bike was a blast. 

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:

> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Will]

Maybe you should consider this...

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1tzm8kVi8b_-qE-ykhxM21ie83Q303d2jQ5EYdrpF-kI/viewanalytics



On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[dstein]

Richard - makes sense on the clem, but is the proto hunqapillar part of the 
new design? would hate to hear it is becoming less of a trial bike with a 
lower bb and longer cs.



On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 6:39:07 PM UTC-7, Richard Rios wrote:
>
> In regaurd to clem jr as an option, I know many here will disagree with 
> this but long chainstays and a lowish bottom bracket in my experience 
> didn't make for a great off road ride. This is based of a good bit of time 
> spent abord a proto hunqapillar with 650bees and long cs. I would boil it 
> down this way in terms of ride quality what are you looking for. Smooth and 
> stable Rivendell. speedier and playful Surly. Both great bikes but 
> different priorites wise.

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Richard Rios]

In regaurd to clem jr as an option, I know many here will disagree with this 
but long chainstays and a lowish bottom bracket in my experience didn't make 
for a great off road ride. This is based of a good bit of time spent abord a 
proto hunqapillar with 650bees and long cs. I would boil it down this way in 
terms of ride quality what are you looking for. Smooth and stable Rivendell. 
speedier and playful Surly. Both great bikes but different priorites wise.

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Tony DeFilippo]

Any time you're in search of a 'last one' of anything that sets a pretty high 
bar!  That said you picked two great bikes to compare and won't go wrong with 
either. 

How important is the Riv styling to you? I think it boils down to that, are you 
willing to pay for the Riv lugs, paint and overall style or would you be 
satisfied by the more workmanlike surly...?

With the exception of disc brake availability i don't think the Ogre has 
anything over the Hunq on versatility.  Both can be set up for singletrack but 
both make compromises over a dedicated trail bike in the use.

I've got a Bombadil and have taken a Hunq for a quick spin once or twice, 
they're awesome bikes that to me epitomize Riv all rounder-ness.

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Re: [RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[David Stein]

I threw my support behind the hunq, and as much as I hate to throw other
bikes into the mix of a two bike question, i gotta ask: have you considered
the clem smith jr? It seems to be the ultimate budget Rivendell all
rounder, but I'd be curious to hear how clem smith owners like it on trails
or single track. I only bring it up because if it was available when i was
buying my hunq a few years ago it would have been a touch call given the
price difference.

On Sun, Oct 2, 2016 at 1:57 PM, Richard Rios 
wrote:

> Really just depends on how you ride. If you plan on doing any sort of
> trail riding go surly all the way. If mostly roadish then go Rivendell. I
> own both Rivs and Surlys. I find myself reaching for one of my surlys  9
> out of 10 times. Off road i really haven't found a rivendell I prefer the
> ride of to a surly. As for on road slow steady long distances the Riv is
> better. Just my 02.
>
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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Richard Rios]

Really just depends on how you ride. If you plan on doing any sort of trail 
riding go surly all the way. If mostly roadish then go Rivendell. I own both 
Rivs and Surlys. I find myself reaching for one of my surlys  9 out of 10 
times. Off road i really haven't found a rivendell I prefer the ride of to a 
surly. As for on road slow steady long distances the Riv is better. Just my 02.

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Garth]

   50'ish Chris.  

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 3:03:14 PM UTC-4, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> Just curious, what is neutral trail?   60'ish?  
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Just curious, what is neutral trail?   60'ish?  

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 1:53:44 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
>
>   Is there a reason for just those 2 as choices ?   There a other frame 
> builder who can build exactly what you want for less than the price of the 
> Hunq . I get a sense you do not really know what you want though .
>
>  FWIW, I own a Bombadil and a custom frame from a local builder in Ohio, 
> and these 2 bikes ride, feel and handle vastly different.  As for the "Riv 
> feel" it is what it is, I do find on slow technical stuff the Bomba 
> handling to be a bit unintuitive/sluggish compared to my other frame, 
> getting easily knocked off line by front wheel obstacles.The Bomba 
> responding mostly to rear body and sometimes needs a lot of input, while my 
> neutral trail custom responds to upper and lower body input equally well 
> and with ease at any speed.  Both are nice for meandering in their own ways 
> though.
>
>As for perceived quality of the frame, my custom is better, and this 
> was not a high end custom by any means.  The Waterford Bomba , kind of 
> surprised by some things I need not get into. All I'll say is just because 
> it's built by Waterford, or anyone really, it does not necessarily mean 
> it's attention to detail is top notch or not.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 11:46:23 AM UTC-4, R Olson wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this 
>> bike to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with 
>> it - ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
>> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
>> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
>> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
>> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
>> thoughts. Thanks!   
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[Garth]

  Is there a reason for just those 2 as choices ?   There a other frame 
builder who can build exactly what you want for less than the price of the 
Hunq . I get a sense you do not really know what you want though .

 FWIW, I own a Bombadil and a custom frame from a local builder in Ohio, 
and these 2 bikes ride, feel and handle vastly different.  As for the "Riv 
feel" it is what it is, I do find on slow technical stuff the Bomba 
handling to be a bit unintuitive/sluggish compared to my other frame, 
getting easily knocked off line by front wheel obstacles.The Bomba 
responding mostly to rear body and sometimes needs a lot of input, while my 
neutral trail custom responds to upper and lower body input equally well 
and with ease at any speed.  Both are nice for meandering in their own ways 
though.

   As for perceived quality of the frame, my custom is better, and this was 
not a high end custom by any means.  The Waterford Bomba , kind of 
surprised by some things I need not get into. All I'll say is just because 
it's built by Waterford, or anyone really, it does not necessarily mean 
it's attention to detail is top notch or not.



On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 11:46:23 AM UTC-4, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I forgot to specify that I have never ridden a Hunqapillar but I want to 
some day and I hope the experience is such that I have to have one!



On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I would love to have a 54cm Hunqapillar but my finances are such that I 
ride an 18" Karate Monkey, which is almost the same bike as the ogre, just 
with lighter tubing and fewer braze-ons.  My KM is 1st generation (KM is 
now on 3rd generation) but the geometry that matters is the same as 2nd 
generation KM's & the Ogre.   

The main differences:

Hunq has lower BB (1.2 cm)
Hunq has longer chainstays (fractionally)
Hunq has slacker seat angle
Hunq has "livelier" steering
Hunq is beautiful and classy
Hunq has a skinnier fork that may provide some suspension

Ogre is stiffer, maybe substantially stiffer
Ogre has more tire clearance
Ogre has option for disk brakes or cantilever/V-brakes
Ogre has a 1 1/8" threadless steerer (I consider this an advantage)
Ogre is relatively inexpensive

To be honest, in practical terms I don't think the Hunq offers much over 
the Ogre.  There are some slight geometry differences but even Grant states 
that components can make more difference than a centimeter or two 
difference in geometry.  

On a more subjective level, the Hunqapillar is gorgeous bike, both in 
appearance and concept, and it's pretty much in a league of it's own, to my 
eyes.  

A couple of other things to consider:

There is a very high probability that a new version of the Ogre will be 
announced very soon.  Surly made substantial changes to the Troll (Ogres 
26" cousin) and have hinted that similar changes are in store for the Ogre.

Also, if you are buying a frameset and building it up, you can set up an 
Ogre with disk brakes and fat tired 650B wheels and you'll be in Bombadil 
territory.  I've seen both 55mm and 67mm BB drop for the 650B Bombadil so I 
don't know which is accurate but the Ogre has 68mm of BB drop.   I'm 
considering going the 650B route with my Karate Monkey.


My 1st Gen Karate Monkey with 60mm Big Apples:




On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 10:46:23 AM UTC-5, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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[RBW] Re: surly ogre vs riv hunq?

[dstein]

I don't have any experience with the Ogre so I can't comment there, but in 
general I've never been super into the way Surlys ride. I do really like 
those Jones bars on the complete build though. 

I own a hunqapillar and use it for all of those purposes and can't say 
enough good things about it. Really nice waterford made frame and if you 
can afford it its well worth the investment, Rivendell bikes retain a bit 
of value too making it easier to resell should your mind change down the 
road. I have it outfitted with compass rat trap pass tires now which 
perform really well on road and almost all trails as long as its not muddy 
or super sandy, and a pair of schwalbe smart sams I put on occasionally. 
The one thing I'll say is the Hunq isn't super great for technical 
singletrack. Many people do use it for that purpose just fine, but I found 
that I lacked confidence on technical singletrack with hunq and crashed a 
good bit (I eventually got a Jones plus for single track riding - which is 
also another option for an all rounder). I'm not so sure the Ogre would 
really be any different on technical singletrack though. But for general 
trail riding, fire roads around town, commuter, errands - I even use it on 
about half of my road rides now because I love those rat trap tires so much 
- a hunqapillar with a front rack and wald basket can't be beat. Also I've 
tried a million handlebar combos and I'm a huge fan of Albastache bars for 
an all rounder bike. 

I'm assuming you live in an area where you cannot easily ride either (ie, 
not the bay area?). 

On Sunday, October 2, 2016 at 8:46:23 AM UTC-7, R Olson wrote:
>
> I'm trying to decide between a riv hunq or a surly ogre.  I want this bike 
> to be the last one I own and I want to be able to do everything with it - 
> ride trails/single track, around town, get groceries, etc.  Has anyone 
> owned or ridden either of these?  My impressions are as follows:  Ogre: 
> more versatile, stronger/stiffer frame, less expensive, probably doesn't 
> ride as good, certainly doesn't look as good. Hunq:  great looks, ride, 
> very expensive, probably more comfortable to ride.  I'd appreciate your 
> thoughts. Thanks!   
>

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