Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[ascpgh]

Good points. My initial SON 28 was for my commuter that sees it all. I'd be 
embarrassed to show a picture of it now after last week's wet commutes, but 
that's what's proven to be the thing with the SON, it just keeps working. 
Long ago I learned from reading Jobst Brandt to use the best parts to build 
your wheels. Never easy to replace a part of a built wheel. I learned the 
expense of a wheel part failure with aluminum nipples.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 8:12:27 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:

> Jason,
>
> The best data I've found for objectively comparing output power and drag 
> of different dynamo hubs across a range of speeds is here.  
> https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-power-drag-testing-schmidt-son-shutter-precision-shimano/
>
> I live car-free in an east-coast city.  Due to probability of theft, I 
> went with less expensive 6V-3W Shimano dynohubs on my VO commuter bike and 
> my Yuba extended-wheelbase cargo bike.  I had Cygolites in the past, but 
> discovered the elegance of dynohub lighting -- lights are permanently 
> mounted (theft prevention) and they always work (nothing to recharge).  
> Less hassle.
>
> To reduce zipties and wires, on my Quickbeam I went with this 6V-2.4W 
> Shimano dynamo hub 
> 
>  
> which powers only a front light (this battery-powered rear light 
> 
>  
> on the fender).  If I were to do it again, I'd go with a 6V-3W hub with 
> rear wiring using this elegant approach proposed by Igor at VO 
> 
> .
>
> The "gotcha" with the Shimano dynamo hubs is that the wire connector cap 
> and cover 
>  
> is neither waterproof nor robust.  I've lost lights in more than 1 rain 
> storm.  The connector cap has torn off more than once in normal riding.  
> When I think about the value of one's time -- and the time spent 
> maintaining the connector -- it starts to seem myopic not going with the 
> SON. :-)
>
> You asked about rims and spokes.  There are so many dynamo hub options out 
> there (disc brake vs. rim brake; 32h vs. 36h vs. XXh; black vs. silver; 
> etc. etc.), so you can get whatever you want/need.  I saved a ton of money 
> trolling eBay remembering what Grant wrote in a Riv Reader more than a 
> decade ago: "Mismatched rims are cool."
>
> Cheers,
> Will M
> NYC  
>
>  
> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:38:30 AM UTC-4 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>
>> Speaking as someone with a few SON28 wheels, and the type of riding you 
>> described, I'd suggest considering a $30 Paul Gino mount and a few $35 
>> Cygolite lights a go before investing $500+ on a SON28 and Edelux headlight 
>> (not including the cost for the cox-axial connector, rim, rim tape, spokes, 
>> and nipples). But, I totally get it, Dyno hubs are awesome! Personally, I 
>> hate having to look at the wiring and zip ties.
>>
>> Best
>> Scott
>>
>> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 9:09:10 AM UTC-4 peec...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have Velogical dynamo on my Sam Hillborne.  Love its elegance and the 
>>> fact that I didn't have to change my front wheel and hub when I wanted to 
>>> add dynamo lighting.  One other con to consider is the potential for 
>>> slipping when riding in wet conditions.  The  Velogical has provided 
>>> adequate light even when wet however.  Tim Petersen
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>>
 Jason:

 You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
 get!

 I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
 with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
 pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
 several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.

 If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re 
 so darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
 “roughness” that one other respondent reported.

 Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the 
 biggest advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP 
 hubs are not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment 
 directly into a cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as 
 the air inside the hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, 
 you would have to roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case 
 for me and something that has never been a problem.

 Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an 
 Alex Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very 
 low draw, ZERO drag in the “off” 

Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Patrick Moore]

The SP on my Matthews dirt road bike works fine at low speeds.

This one is as smooth as my SON; an earlier SP did vibrate a bit more. My
various Shimanos were as smooth as the SON too.

My SON is the 20 R or whatever the small-wheel model used to be called;
isn't this now the "Deluxe"? At any rate, it's made for smaller wheels, so
if you choose SON you might want to choose the 28 for slower speeds.

BTW, I've had absolutely no problems with the narrow SP on 2 bikes,
currently a 700C off road bike with 32 spoke front wheel.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 9:31 AM Brian Forsee  wrote:

> Eric,
>
> Do you have any thoughts/comparisons on the SON vs SP for low speeds? I'm
> looking to get a dynamo set up for single track bikepacking applications. I
> believe the general consensus is the SON is best at low speeds.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> -Brian in STL, MO
>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Will M]

Jason,

The best data I've found for objectively comparing output power and drag of 
different dynamo hubs across a range of speeds is here.  
https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-power-drag-testing-schmidt-son-shutter-precision-shimano/

I live car-free in an east-coast city.  Due to probability of theft, I went 
with less expensive 6V-3W Shimano dynohubs on my VO commuter bike and my 
Yuba extended-wheelbase cargo bike.  I had Cygolites in the past, but 
discovered the elegance of dynohub lighting -- lights are permanently 
mounted (theft prevention) and they always work (nothing to recharge).  
Less hassle.

To reduce zipties and wires, on my Quickbeam I went with this 6V-2.4W 
Shimano dynamo hub 

 
which powers only a front light (this battery-powered rear light 

 
on the fender).  If I were to do it again, I'd go with a 6V-3W hub with 
rear wiring using this elegant approach proposed by Igor at VO 

.

The "gotcha" with the Shimano dynamo hubs is that the wire connector cap 
and cover 
 is 
neither waterproof nor robust.  I've lost lights in more than 1 rain 
storm.  The connector cap has torn off more than once in normal riding.  
When I think about the value of one's time -- and the time spent 
maintaining the connector -- it starts to seem myopic not going with the 
SON. :-)

You asked about rims and spokes.  There are so many dynamo hub options out 
there (disc brake vs. rim brake; 32h vs. 36h vs. XXh; black vs. silver; 
etc. etc.), so you can get whatever you want/need.  I saved a ton of money 
trolling eBay remembering what Grant wrote in a Riv Reader more than a 
decade ago: "Mismatched rims are cool."

Cheers,
Will M
NYC  

 
On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:38:30 AM UTC-4 greenteadrinkers wrote:

> Speaking as someone with a few SON28 wheels, and the type of riding you 
> described, I'd suggest considering a $30 Paul Gino mount and a few $35 
> Cygolite lights a go before investing $500+ on a SON28 and Edelux headlight 
> (not including the cost for the cox-axial connector, rim, rim tape, spokes, 
> and nipples). But, I totally get it, Dyno hubs are awesome! Personally, I 
> hate having to look at the wiring and zip ties.
>
> Best
> Scott
>
> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 9:09:10 AM UTC-4 peec...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I have Velogical dynamo on my Sam Hillborne.  Love its elegance and the 
>> fact that I didn't have to change my front wheel and hub when I wanted to 
>> add dynamo lighting.  One other con to consider is the potential for 
>> slipping when riding in wet conditions.  The  Velogical has provided 
>> adequate light even when wet however.  Tim Petersen
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>>> Jason:
>>>
>>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>>> get!
>>>
>>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>>
>>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re 
>>> so darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>>
>>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>>> something that has never been a problem.
>>>
>>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an 
>>> Alex Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very 
>>> low draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works 
>>> with any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject 
>>> to damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, all,
>>>
>>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>>> build, too -- with one for an 

Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[greenteadrinkers]

Speaking as someone with a few SON28 wheels, and the type of riding you 
described, I'd suggest considering a $30 Paul Gino mount and a few $35 
Cygolite lights a go before investing $500+ on a SON28 and Edelux headlight 
(not including the cost for the cox-axial connector, rim, rim tape, spokes, 
and nipples). But, I totally get it, Dyno hubs are awesome! Personally, I 
hate having to look at the wiring and zip ties.

Best
Scott

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 9:09:10 AM UTC-4 peech1...@yahoo.com wrote:

> I have Velogical dynamo on my Sam Hillborne.  Love its elegance and the 
> fact that I didn't have to change my front wheel and hub when I wanted to 
> add dynamo lighting.  One other con to consider is the potential for 
> slipping when riding in wet conditions.  The  Velogical has provided 
> adequate light even when wet however.  Tim Petersen
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Jason:
>>
>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>> get!
>>
>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>
>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
>> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>> something that has never been a problem.
>>
>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
>> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
>> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
>> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
>> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

I've had good experience with several budget Shimano hubs (never any 
issues) as well as the Panasonic hub, which I have on a cargo bike that 
sits outside year-round in rain/snow/heat/humidity. You can get them from 
Peter White and maybe some other places, too. 

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/panahub.php

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 9:09:10 AM UTC-4 peech1...@yahoo.com wrote:

> I have Velogical dynamo on my Sam Hillborne.  Love its elegance and the 
> fact that I didn't have to change my front wheel and hub when I wanted to 
> add dynamo lighting.  One other con to consider is the potential for 
> slipping when riding in wet conditions.  The  Velogical has provided 
> adequate light even when wet however.  Tim Petersen
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Jason:
>>
>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>> get!
>>
>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>
>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
>> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>> something that has never been a problem.
>>
>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
>> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
>> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
>> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
>> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

['peech1...@yahoo.com' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have Velogical dynamo on my Sam Hillborne.  Love its elegance and the 
fact that I didn't have to change my front wheel and hub when I wanted to 
add dynamo lighting.  One other con to consider is the potential for 
slipping when riding in wet conditions.  The  Velogical has provided 
adequate light even when wet however.  Tim Petersen

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Jason:
>
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
> get!
>
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
> something that has never been a problem.
>
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
> some touring on it.
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
>
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Wesley]

I'm using a Shimano dyno that I bought off this list for like $50 - it's 
great! I didn't notice a difference from a non-dyno hub to this one, and so 
I can't imagine noticing the difference if I switched to a SON. Mine is one 
of the N72 that looks asymmetrical (all the dyno parts are on one side of 
the hub).
-W

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:59:14 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> I’ve been running my Velogical with an Edelux II headlight for several 
> years, with no ill effects.
>
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:57 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> I recall reading on Peter White's site that you should be careful mixing 
> velogical dynos with certain lights depending on their requirements. He 
> specifically mentioned the Edelux and Edelux II as being ones you 
> *shouldn't use with velogical, or other experimental dyno generators.
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
>> think about.
>>
>> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset 
>> for it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a 
>> sense that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that 
>> there's a case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the 
>> Velogical in that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, 
>> and it looks like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>>> Jason:
>>>
>>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>>> get!
>>>
>>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>>
>>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re 
>>> so darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>>
>>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>>> something that has never been a problem.
>>>
>>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an 
>>> Alex Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very 
>>> low draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works 
>>> with any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject 
>>> to damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>>
>>> --Eric Norris
>>> campyo...@me.com
>>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>>
>>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, all,
>>>
>>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>>> some touring on it.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>>
>>> Thanks, in advance,
>>> jason
>>>
>>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>>> the build...
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the 

Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I’ve been running my Velogical with an Edelux II headlight for several years, 
with no ill effects.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Jul 26, 2022, at 8:57 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
> 
> I recall reading on Peter White's site that you should be careful mixing 
> velogical dynos with certain lights depending on their requirements. He 
> specifically mentioned the Edelux and Edelux II as being ones you *shouldn't 
> use with velogical, or other experimental dyno generators.
> 
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com 
>  wrote:
> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
> think about.
> 
> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset for 
> it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a sense 
> that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that there's a 
> case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the Velogical in 
> that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, and it looks like 
> an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com 
>  wrote:
> Jason:
> 
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will get!
> 
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues with 
> either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges pressed onto 
> a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have several 
> variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
> 
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
> 
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and something 
> that has never been a problem.
> 
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet whirring 
> noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
> 
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com <>
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn > wrote:
>> 
> 
>> Hi, all,
>> 
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, and 
>> I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget and am 
>> wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My main use 
>> for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, running erands, 
>> etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of transportation (in Los 
>> Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and early mornings with some 
>> regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do some touring on it.
>> 
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>> 
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>> 
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
>> build...
>> 
> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com <>.
> 
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> .
> 
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04e8a897-c495-48bd-b10a-a4f570f9d16dn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 

Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Brian Turner]

I recall reading on Peter White's site that you should be careful mixing 
velogical dynos with certain lights depending on their requirements. He 
specifically mentioned the Edelux and Edelux II as being ones you 
*shouldn't use with velogical, or other experimental dyno generators.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
> think about.
>
> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset 
> for it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a 
> sense that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that 
> there's a case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the 
> Velogical in that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, 
> and it looks like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Jason:
>>
>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>> get!
>>
>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>
>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
>> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>> something that has never been a problem.
>>
>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
>> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
>> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
>> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
>> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Will Boericke]

I'll offer the budget perspective.  I have two setups on my commuters, one 
is a Jtek branded Kasai from Sjs cycles, the other a Shimano 
something-or-other.  Both run B front and rear lights.  Each was about 
$50.  Both have seen thousands of nasty miles in New England winter.  No 
issues with either.



On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 11:51:06 AM UTC-4 jkg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
> think about.
>
> Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset 
> for it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a 
> sense that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that 
> there's a case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the 
> Velogical in that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, 
> and it looks like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> Jason:
>>
>> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
>> get!
>>
>> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
>> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
>> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
>> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>>
>> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
>> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
>> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>>
>> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
>> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
>> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
>> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
>> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
>> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
>> something that has never been a problem.
>>
>> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
>> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
>> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
>> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
>> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
>> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>>
>> --Eric Norris
>> campyo...@me.com
>> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
>> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
>> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
>> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
>> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
>> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
>> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
>> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
>> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
>> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
>> some touring on it.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>>
>> Thanks, in advance,
>> jason
>>
>> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for 
>> the build...
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Jason Glenn]

Thanks, everyone, for your informative responses.  As Eric said, lots to 
think about.

Intrigued by the Velogical dynamo for my homer, since I have a wheelset for 
it already.  Since I need to build wheels for the Atlantis, I have a sense 
that the dyno hub might make more sense, although I gather that there's a 
case to be made that there's still a case to be made for the Velogical in 
that case too -- just spent a few minutes on their website, and it looks 
like an interesting product.  Again, lots to consider.



On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 8:19:02 AM UTC-7 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Jason:
>
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
> get!
>
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
> something that has never been a problem.
>
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
> some touring on it.
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
>
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Brian Forsee]

Eric,

Do you have any thoughts/comparisons on the SON vs SP for low speeds? I'm 
looking to get a dynamo set up for single track bikepacking applications. I 
believe the general consensus is the SON is best at low speeds.

Thanks in advance!

-Brian in STL, MO

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Jason:
>
> You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
> get!
>
> I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
> with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
> pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
> several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.
>
> If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so 
> darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
> “roughness” that one other respondent reported.
>
> Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
> advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
> not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
> cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the 
> hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to 
> roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and 
> something that has never been a problem.
>
> Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
> Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low 
> draw, ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with 
> any wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to 
> damage (not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet 
> whirring noise when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com
> Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
> YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 
>
> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
> build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
> and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
> and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
> main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
> running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
> transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
> early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
> some touring on it.
>
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
>
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
>
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a069839b-49c0-4e8f-bfb5-000f0ee9255cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jason:

You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will get!

I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues with 
either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges pressed onto a 
center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have several variations of 
the SP hubs on various bikes.

If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re so darn 
pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the “roughness” 
that one other respondent reported.

Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the biggest 
advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP hubs are 
not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment directly into a 
cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as the air inside the hub 
cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, you would have to roll 
right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case for me and something that 
has never been a problem.

Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an Alex 
Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very low draw, 
ZERO drag in the “off” position, great German engineering, works with any 
wheel. Cons: Sits outside on the frame, where it might be subject to damage 
(not a problem for me in several years of use), makes a quiet whirring noise 
when running, requires a small clamp to attach to the frame.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Jul 25, 2022, at 11:59 PM, Jason Glenn  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all,
> 
> I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
> thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel build, 
> too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, and I could 
> be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget and am wondering 
> what people think about the alternatives out there.  My main use for the 
> Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, running erands, etc., 
> but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of transportation (in Los 
> Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and early mornings with some 
> regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do some touring on it.
> 
> Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  
> 
> Thanks, in advance,
> jason
> 
> P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
> build...
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
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[RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[Jason Glenn]

Hi, all,

I've never had a bike with a dyno hub but rode one a few months back -- 
thanks, Max! -- and have decided to build up a wheel -- my first wheel 
build, too -- with one for an Atlantis.  I know the Son 28 is the go to, 
and I could be convinced to use one, but I'm working on a limited budget 
and am wondering what people think about the alternatives out there.  My 
main use for the Atlantis, at least at the moment, will be commuting, 
running erands, etc., but I'm trying to bike as my principle form of 
transportation (in Los Angeles) and will be riding in the evenings and 
early mornings with some regularity.  Down the road, I would like to do 
some touring on it.

Anyway, I'm interested in any and all suggestions/perspectives.  

Thanks, in advance,
jason

P.s. While I'm at it, happy to hear about favorite rims and spokes for the 
build...

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