Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

I hope every time I say something ambiguous it doesn't make somebody shove
his or her head up there. I'd feel even worse. I'm not NITTO spokesman,
just a customer, but I've been there 20 times or more (usually when I
worked at Bstone) and I know the deal there, and before NITTO'd come up
with a list, they'd have to test all those stems, and it would be
exhausting and 'thpenthive and -- I can't see that happening. Their point
is just that as bars get wider they impose more leverage on the stem, and
== like that.

On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 11:53 AM John Phillips  wrote:

> Grant, I probably have my head up my butt, but I don't think that last
> post meant what you think it meant.
>
> Erik was writing about a new NITTO-made drop bar, and was not criticizing
> or distorting what you had previously said about wide non-NITTO-made drop
> bars. On the other hand, it would be more-than-very-helpful if Crust &
> NITTO specified what kind of stems should be, and what stems should NOT be,
> used with this new NITTO-Crust collaboration drop bar, especially if the
> rider is running a bike bag on single track.
>
> But then again, I probably have my head up my butt: it is awfully dark &
> lonely in here.
>
> John
>
> On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 7:55:33 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>> NITTO sez the wider bars mean the stem wll brake first, and they'd rather
>> the bar breaks first. We asked. We lead the way w ith 46cm, then 48cm. We
>> asked for (and got a prototype of) a 51cm, but that turned out to be a
>> stem-braker. It's cool that other makers do it, but we're sticking with
>> ultra-conservative NITTO. THere is probably a combo that "works"--31.8
>> clamp? CrMo stem? But we're not gonna be the ones to beg NITTO to lower its
>> standards, and please, no need to turn that around and say Grant says the
>> wider bars are dangerous or irresponsible. That's not what's going on, I'm
>> just saying why NItto, at this point, won't. THanks.
>> G
>>
>> On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 1:47 PM Erik Wright  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing many of y'all have seen this:
>>> https://crustbikes.com/products/nitto-x-crust-2/
>>>
>>> Lots of folks were mentioning the Towel Rack bar in this thread (26.0
>>> clamp, very wide, not made by Nitto), and this new Crust/Nitto collab looks
>>> to be a middle ground between a Noodle and the Towel Rack. These bars have
>>> a 31.8 clamp, and maybe that's how they're able to meet the rigorous
>>> requirements that Grant outlined.
>>>
>>> Erik, Philly
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4, ctifusion wrote:

 I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love
 them. And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place
 when they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide
 drop bar into production.

 I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.

 Thoughts?

 Brynnar
 Indy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[John Phillips]

Grant, I probably have my head up my butt, but I don't think that last post 
meant what you think it meant.

Erik was writing about a new NITTO-made drop bar, and was not criticizing 
or distorting what you had previously said about wide non-NITTO-made drop 
bars. On the other hand, it would be more-than-very-helpful if Crust & 
NITTO specified what kind of stems should be, and what stems should NOT be, 
used with this new NITTO-Crust collaboration drop bar, especially if the 
rider is running a bike bag on single track.

But then again, I probably have my head up my butt: it is awfully dark & 
lonely in here.

John

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 7:55:33 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
> NITTO sez the wider bars mean the stem wll brake first, and they'd rather 
> the bar breaks first. We asked. We lead the way w ith 46cm, then 48cm. We 
> asked for (and got a prototype of) a 51cm, but that turned out to be a 
> stem-braker. It's cool that other makers do it, but we're sticking with 
> ultra-conservative NITTO. THere is probably a combo that "works"--31.8 
> clamp? CrMo stem? But we're not gonna be the ones to beg NITTO to lower its 
> standards, and please, no need to turn that around and say Grant says the 
> wider bars are dangerous or irresponsible. That's not what's going on, I'm 
> just saying why NItto, at this point, won't. THanks.
> G
>
> On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 1:47 PM Erik Wright  > wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing many of y'all have seen this: 
>> https://crustbikes.com/products/nitto-x-crust-2/
>>
>> Lots of folks were mentioning the Towel Rack bar in this thread (26.0 
>> clamp, very wide, not made by Nitto), and this new Crust/Nitto collab looks 
>> to be a middle ground between a Noodle and the Towel Rack. These bars have 
>> a 31.8 clamp, and maybe that's how they're able to meet the rigorous 
>> requirements that Grant outlined.
>>
>> Erik, Philly
>>
>> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4, ctifusion wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love 
>>> them. And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place 
>>> when they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide 
>>> drop bar into production.
>>>
>>> I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders. 
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Brynnar
>>> Indy
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

NITTO sez the wider bars mean the stem wll brake first, and they'd rather
the bar breaks first. We asked. We lead the way w ith 46cm, then 48cm. We
asked for (and got a prototype of) a 51cm, but that turned out to be a
stem-braker. It's cool that other makers do it, but we're sticking with
ultra-conservative NITTO. THere is probably a combo that "works"--31.8
clamp? CrMo stem? But we're not gonna be the ones to beg NITTO to lower its
standards, and please, no need to turn that around and say Grant says the
wider bars are dangerous or irresponsible. That's not what's going on, I'm
just saying why NItto, at this point, won't. THanks.
G

On Sun, May 19, 2019 at 1:47 PM Erik Wright  wrote:

> I'm guessing many of y'all have seen this:
> https://crustbikes.com/products/nitto-x-crust-2/
>
> Lots of folks were mentioning the Towel Rack bar in this thread (26.0
> clamp, very wide, not made by Nitto), and this new Crust/Nitto collab looks
> to be a middle ground between a Noodle and the Towel Rack. These bars have
> a 31.8 clamp, and maybe that's how they're able to meet the rigorous
> requirements that Grant outlined.
>
> Erik, Philly
>
> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-4, ctifusion wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love them.
>> And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place when
>> they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide drop
>> bar into production.
>>
>> I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Brynnar
>> Indy
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[iamkeith]

(Damn.  I'm all thumbs trying to type with my thumbs.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[ctifusion]

Super cool!!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[ian m]

Very cool!

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 4:06:17 PM UTC-4, Takashi wrote:
>
> Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:
>>
>> A steel moose stem with removable faceplates 
>>
>
> You mean something like this? (Requires a threadless converter)
> https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-v-4-stem-dull.html
>
> Takashi
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Justin, Oakland]

Phil K-
Have you tried the Fairweather All road bars?
-J

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[ctifusion]

Alex,

That's it. I'd break the bank for that bar.

Brynnar
Indy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Bill Lindsay]

A steel moose stem with a removable face plate that comes in 25.4mm and 
26.0mm and 31.8mm clamp diameters would be cool.  Some bars have such a 
narrow bulge/sleeve section that it may be beneficial to have a 23,8mm 
clamp diameter as well.   

On Monday, July 2, 2018 at 1:06:17 PM UTC-7, Takashi wrote:
>
> Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:
>>
>> A steel moose stem with removable faceplates 
>>
>
> You mean something like this? (Requires a threadless converter)
> https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-v-4-stem-dull.html
>
> Takashi
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Takashi]

Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles wrote:
>
> A steel moose stem with removable faceplates 
>

You mean something like this? (Requires a threadless converter)
https://global.bluelug.com/nitto-v-4-stem-dull.html

Takashi

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Holy moose noodles batman.

+1 on the shallow drop

I am putting some Whiskey No.7 46cm bars on my Hilsen to experiment after 
getting a taste of some shallow drop/flared bars on a friend's bike.

I'll share thoughts if I stick with them.

There are some people that ride 666's at the shop and they flex quite a 
bit.  Most report that as a nice attribute (I can see that), but I think of 
the fatigue resistance of aluminum and it would make me a little nervous.

A steel moose stem with removable faceplates and huge swaged section on an 
ultra wide noodle with shallow drop?  Dreamy. Niche on niche on niche on 
niche and probably wildly expensive.



Alex Wirth
Rochester, NY




On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4, Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
> I had previously been caught up in the sizing differences between Nitto 
> Noodles vs. RM-013 end ended up with the 48cm RM-013 thinking it would be 
> as wide as the widest Noodle but actually has narrower ramp spacing than a 
> 48cm Noodle simply because they are measured differently (center of bar end 
> to end after flare for RM-013 vs center to center of ramp before flare for 
> the Noodles.)
>
> I later found the same biketouringnews article which does show how the 
> 48cm Noodle and 52cm RM-013 are a very close match in ramp to ramp width.  
> I'm still using the 48cm RM-013 but like Keith I also found the drops a 
> little more comfortable when extended a bit with a barend shifter 
> installed, or when not using barend shifters I'll plug with a champagne 
> style cork with thicker top that better matches outer bar diameter and adds 
> another few cm to the ends.
>
> Brian Cole
> Lawrenceville NJ
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I had previously been caught up in the sizing differences between Nitto 
Noodles vs. RM-013 end ended up with the 48cm RM-013 thinking it would be 
as wide as the widest Noodle but actually has narrower ramp spacing than a 
48cm Noodle simply because they are measured differently (center of bar end 
to end after flare for RM-013 vs center to center of ramp before flare for 
the Noodles.)

I later found the same biketouringnews article which does show how the 48cm 
Noodle and 52cm RM-013 are a very close match in ramp to ramp width.  I'm 
still using the 48cm RM-013 but like Keith I also found the drops a little 
more comfortable when extended a bit with a barend shifter installed, or 
when not using barend shifters I'll plug with a champagne style cork with 
thicker top that better matches outer bar diameter and adds another few cm 
to the ends.

Brian Cole
Lawrenceville NJ

>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[iamkeith]

Oops - in my above commentary, I referenced the wrong bar sizes.   The 
noodle bar in the pictures, and the one I replaced with the dirt drop, was 
48cm, not 46.  The even older one that made me feel claustrophobic (not 
shown) was a 46. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:31:23 AM UTC-6, Jeff wrote:
>
> Tony, I’ve been going through a journey that I’ve written up a bit on the 
> iBob list, looking for a 46cm bar as you’ve described. I’m not sure if 
> you’re a member of that group - I can provide more detail if you’re not, 
> but the short story is that I’ve not found anything with the same reach and 
> drop as a 46cm noodle, with flared drops. .
>
 

> ...Darin - thanks for the link - I hadn't seen that particular write-up 
> but I had looked at Nitto dirt drops in the past and my impression was they 
> they were all too narrow at the ramps or where the brake levers would be. 
> Looks like I might have been wrong as the widest RM-013 looks like it could 
> be close to 46 at the brake levers  
>

Apologies, as I hadn't been reading this thread or the one on ibob that you 
reference, JeffI might have been able to help.  I recently replaced the 
46 noodles on my Ram with the Nitto/Grant dirt drop bar off of my 
Quickbeam.  ( I think RM13 is correct.  These are the ones that Riv used to 
sell.  And I think the same as the '87 MB-1?.)  

It looks like you figured it out, but  I don't perceive any meaningful 
change in reach or drop or number of hand positions.   (Remember that there 
are at* least *two versions of nitto dirt drops.)  The other differences 
are very nuanced, and I think someone would have to be a totally obsessive, 
idiosyncratic nit-picker to even care which one they had .   Unfortunately, 
I'm that kind of guy.  

I like the straighter top section because I actually use it on occasion, as 
you can see by the fact that i retained the cross top levers.  Gripping the 
noodle, where it angled back, kind of forced me to put my elbows in toward 
each other, for lack of a better way to describe it.  I can be a little 
more elbows-out on the dirt drop.  The brake levers/hoods position is 
basically identical - maybe  a tiny bit narrower but, again, not 
perceptibly.  Also, the levers do NOT angle inward or tip sideways like 
they do on a lot of newer dirt drop bars with the shallow drop.  The *big* 
thing, of course, is the extra flare and wrist clearance in the drop 
position, and that's the part I really like.

Hard to show anything meaningful in pictures as Grant noted - especially 
since one bar is installed - but I just took some snapshots for what 
they're worth:














Two other things that you can't see in the attached pictures, that helped 
me but may or may not be helpful for others, were necessitated by the Kelly 
take-off shifter mounts:  

-  The way the pod mounts under the brake lever body causes the lever to 
tip upwards, making it very difficult to grab the lever from the drop 
position.   I wrapped a lot of cloth bar tape under the top edge of the 
lever body in order to cant it back the other way.  (I hadn't figured this 
out on my noodles, and i think that was the main thing I hated and that 
prompted me to do this swap.)  

-  Without bar end shifters, the lower grip felt way too short.  So I added 
Control Tech Terminator extenders, which add a full 1" length.  That was a 
HUGE improvement and, again, something I should have tried with the 
Noodles.  Can't even begin to explain how much more comfortable and relaxed 
it is to ride now. Yes there's more room to move around, but the main 
difference is that, when I move to grab the drop during a quick maneuver, I 
always grab bar instead of sometimes grabbing air.


And  couple of other thoughts while I'm at it:   

-  The tektro brake levers 
(https://www.rivbike.com/collections/braking/products/tektro-trp-rrl-brake-levers-dark-grey-alloy-black-hoods-15179),
 
also new to this bike/bar, are great.  As noted, I  rotated them further 
forward/down than most might, in order to be even MORE accessible from the 
drops.  (the lever shape is better than most for this) But this effectively 
lengthened the ramps too, for even more upper grip area.  The pronounced 
bump at the end of the body still keeps  you from feeling like you're going 
to slide off.

 -  Even a tiny bit of extra drop bar width seems to make a big difference 
in my limited experience.  My Ram originally had 44 noodles, while the 46 
noodles were formerly on my XO-1.  

Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The VO post says 31.8 only. I have yet to find a high rise, 1" quill that 
fit 31.8 bars, that isn't sinfully ugly. 

Clayton
DirtDance


On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 6:24:42 AM UTC-7, phil k wrote:
>
> Thanks Drew,
>
> These look great. I'll be waiting for when they become available.
>
> v/r,
>
> Phil
>
> On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 3:46:16 AM UTC-4, Drw wrote:
>>
>> I believe this is the new Velo Orange bar
>> https://instagram.com/p/BiwzRw5hMW-/
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[phil k]

Thanks Drew,

These look great. I'll be waiting for when they become available.

v/r,

Phil

On Thursday, June 28, 2018 at 3:46:16 AM UTC-4, Drw wrote:
>
> I believe this is the new Velo Orange bar
> https://instagram.com/p/BiwzRw5hMW-/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Drw]

I believe this is the new Velo Orange bar
https://instagram.com/p/BiwzRw5hMW-/

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Philip Williamson]

The RM-13s are good bars. 
However, I don’t like Noodles, so that might not be helpful.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[phil k]

Could you provide a link to pictures?

I just wish there was a noodle with shorter drops

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Drw]

I’m semi hopeful that VO’s upcoming drops will Gil this tiny void in handlebar 
designs, but this is based only on a few random photos and no description

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Clayton.sf]

I have Nitto RM-013-HT Dirt Drop Handlebars Heat Treated Silver (Width: 52cm) 
for sale of anyone is interested. Very noodle-esque. I installed them but did 
not ride them more than a few feet b4 deciding they were not for me. I am a fan 
of the cowchippers though. there is no spot behind the lever be the drops and 
hoods to me are very comfy even for long rides.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Jeff Lesperance]

Darin - thanks for the link - I hadn't seen that particular write-up but I
had looked at Nitto dirt drops in the past and my impression was they they
were all too narrow at the ramps or where the brake levers would be. Looks
like I might have been wrong as the widest RM-013 looks like it could be
close to 46 at the brake levers - I just found a picture here with a
measuring tape:

https://store.biketouringnews.com/nitto-dirt-drop-handlebar-rm-013/

Regarding the shorter ramps on the bars that I'm trying - I knew it would
be a trade-off, and I wanted to see if it would work - had I factored in
the Nitto I might have come to a solution sooner. Thus far, I've tried the
bar with the shortest ramp of the 3 I picked out, the Cowchipper, and it
was close to working, but not quite. I expect the Ritchey may have just
enough, though not a lot of real estate to move around on, and the Origin8
bar is the longest of the three but also the widest flare that I'm unsure
about. I really loved the feel of the drops on the Cowchipper.

I've tried a lot of different things on my bikes over the years, but I've
been pretty locked into Noodles - I've actually enjoyed the research and
the shuffling of the cockpit recently, and I'll be happy to practice catch
n' release of the bars that don't work for me so someone else can maybe try
something different.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 7:20 PM DarinM  wrote:

> Jeff,
>
> You say that your favorite feature of the Noodles is the reach (mine,
> too), but none of those bars have anything resembling the Noodle's. I tried
> Salsa Cowbells sometime last year but gave up on them because they had
> nothing to hold onto behind the levers, that made me realize how much I
> like that position.
>
> Have you seen this
> page
> from Bike Touring News comparing Nitto's flared bars? Since you seem to be
> flexible on clamp diameter, you could add those to your list. I have the
> RM-13's and love em'. The 14's look nice and I may those on a more
> dirt-oriented bike that will have a 31.8mm stem.
>
> Darin
>
> On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 2:13:12 PM UTC-7, Jeff wrote:
>>
>> My search began with a quest, essentially, for a flared Noodle - and the
>> feature I like the most about the Noodle is probably the reach - I use the
>> long-ish ramp as my standard hand position, it's where I'm most
>> comfortable, and it allows me to stretch out further onto the hoods when I
>> need to stretch out, and sit upright on the flats. I've been out of town
>> for a few days, but I expect to put some miles on the Ritchey Venturemax in
>> the next few days. If it doesn't work out, I'll try the Gary Sweep OS bars,
>> which claim to be 44cm, but they seem just similar in width to the other
>> bars. If those don't work, I guess I'm going to buy a new Noodle.
>>
>> Here's a somewhat top-down pic of the bars I'm working through next to a
>> 46cm Noodle:
>> Gary Sweep OS 44cm
>> Salsa Cowchipper 46cm
>> Ritchey Venturmax 46 cm
>> Nitto Noodle 46cm
>>
>> [image: IMG_0531.HEIC]
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:26 PM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jeff,
>>>
>>> Thanks for posting the spreadsheet; that looks like a lot of work. Have
>>> you looked at the Soma Highway 1 Bar? It doesn't flare, but it does have a
>>> short reach and drop. I replaced the original Nitto bars on my old Santana
>>> Noventa with Hwy 1 because of their short reach, 26mm clamp, and silver
>>> finish.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[DarinM]

Jeff,

You say that your favorite feature of the Noodles is the reach (mine, too), 
but none of those bars have anything resembling the Noodle's. I tried Salsa 
Cowbells sometime last year but gave up on them because they had nothing to 
hold onto behind the levers, that made me realize how much I like that 
position. 

Have you seen this 
page
 
from Bike Touring News comparing Nitto's flared bars? Since you seem to be 
flexible on clamp diameter, you could add those to your list. I have the 
RM-13's and love em'. The 14's look nice and I may those on a more 
dirt-oriented bike that will have a 31.8mm stem.

Darin

On Wednesday, June 27, 2018 at 2:13:12 PM UTC-7, Jeff wrote:
>
> My search began with a quest, essentially, for a flared Noodle - and the 
> feature I like the most about the Noodle is probably the reach - I use the 
> long-ish ramp as my standard hand position, it's where I'm most 
> comfortable, and it allows me to stretch out further onto the hoods when I 
> need to stretch out, and sit upright on the flats. I've been out of town 
> for a few days, but I expect to put some miles on the Ritchey Venturemax in 
> the next few days. If it doesn't work out, I'll try the Gary Sweep OS bars, 
> which claim to be 44cm, but they seem just similar in width to the other 
> bars. If those don't work, I guess I'm going to buy a new Noodle.
>
> Here's a somewhat top-down pic of the bars I'm working through next to a 
> 46cm Noodle:
> Gary Sweep OS 44cm
> Salsa Cowchipper 46cm
> Ritchey Venturmax 46 cm
> Nitto Noodle 46cm
>
> [image: IMG_0531.HEIC]
>  
>
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 10:26 PM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> Thanks for posting the spreadsheet; that looks like a lot of work. Have 
>> you looked at the Soma Highway 1 Bar? It doesn't flare, but it does have a 
>> short reach and drop. I replaced the original Nitto bars on my old Santana 
>> Noventa with Hwy 1 because of their short reach, 26mm clamp, and silver 
>> finish.
>>
>> Tony
>>  
>>
>> -- 
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting the spreadsheet; that looks like a lot of work. Have you 
looked at the Soma Highway 1 Bar? It doesn't flare, but it does have a 
short reach and drop. I replaced the original Nitto bars on my old Santana 
Noventa with Hwy 1 because of their short reach, 26mm clamp, and silver 
finish.

Tony
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Conway Bennett]

I'd put up R money for a Noodle Moose. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Jeff Lesperance]

Tony, I’ve been going through a journey that I’ve written up a bit on the
iBob list, looking for a 46cm bar as you’ve described. I’m not sure if
you’re a member of that group - I can provide more detail if you’re not,
but the short story is that I’ve not found anything with the same reach and
drop as a 46cm noodle, with flared drops. Trade-off is shorter reach and/or
drop - I’m currently trying out:

46cm Salsa Cowchipper
46cm Ritchey Venturemax
44cm Origin8 Gary Sweep OS

The Salsa has the shortest reach of the bunch - it was pretty comfortable
but lacks the extra hand position behind the hoods with such a short reach.
I’m now trying out the Venturemax.

I put together a google spreadsheet with a bunch of data on handlebars I
wanted to compare, it’s filtered at the moment for some specific bars, but
if you remove the filter you can compare a number of bar measurements;

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wAsw5lReSCvHfMmg1rsrVzsZb2-URffvsizEBO3Zj5A

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:56 PM 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I'd settle for 46 wide Noodles with flared drops like the Salsa
> Cowchippers on my Fargo.
>
>
> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 3:55:10 PM UTC-5, ctifusion wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love them.
>> And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place when
>> they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide drop
>> bar into production.
>>
>> I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Brynnar
>> Indy
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Mike Packard]

A flipped 58 Bosco on a long stem would pretty closely approximate a wide 
Noodle, just sayin. :)

Also: I will happily buy any thing called Noodlemoose, whether it's a 
handlebar, Nitto heat treated aluminum gimbaled cup holder with MKS 
bearings, or novelty ruminant-shaped pasta for S24Os.

Mike

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[hugh flynn]

Man, if you have to ask...

Hugh

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 5:00 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> A Noodle-Moose would be hilarious.
>
> "What's that?"
>
> 'Noodle-Moose.'
>
> "Why?"
>
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-- 
Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Joe Bernard]

A Noodle-Moose would be hilarious. 

"What's that?"

'Noodle-Moose.'

"Why?"

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Drw]

Albastache moose with no forward/center/connection of the triangle so that the 
handles come out in 2 prongs from the stem please.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[ctifusion]

If they were they are gone now. Both black and silver come up as out of 
stock when you put them in the shopping cart. Otherwise I'd buy another 
set. 

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 2:15:50 PM UTC-4, Daniel Jackson wrote:
>
> Limited run of the Crust Leather Bar Towel Rack 666mm Satan thingamajig 
> now for sale up on the Crust Bikes site. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[ctifusion]

I love Nitto stuff so much that I'd never want to ask them to do anything 
that puts them at risk, and I agree that even though the Noodle-moose would 
be the greatest stem/bar ever there would be no way to get the measurements 
correct for even a few, I bet. 

On to dreaming of other things. Did I mention that I'm crazy in love with 
my new Atlantis?

Brynnar
Indy


On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 2:58:21 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 5:20 AM, ctifusion  > wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the info Grant. I can understand Nitto's position. I have a 
>> lot of miles on those bars in road and "gravel" conditions and I don't get 
>> any sense that they are weak or dangerous.
>>
>> Also, not sure what the deleted message said but I surely didn't intend 
>> this to be a controversial post. I'm not a "gravel grinder" guy trying to 
>> change Riv, just the opposite, 
>>
>> THe message I deleted, that was up for a minute or two, had a sentence 
> with a few missing words--typo. I just filled in the fix and deleted then 
> funky one, is all.
>
> Nitto's paranoia is well-earned. Nitto has developed a small following 
> here and in Europe in the past eight to ten years or so, and some 
> importers/distributors have made available to the Western market handlebars 
> that were originally developed for city use in Japan. They're made with 
> perfectly good aluminum (they are NITTO, after all), but aren't made to the 
> same strength standards as the hard-core/universal market bars are. But 
> people see them as cool, super inexpensive, under-the-radar Nitto bars, and 
> they use them for gnarly stuff. A few years ago some burly Germans and one 
> or two Americans broke five of those bars, and the ensuing recall (and the 
> management of it, by a US distributor who is not us or Merry Sales) cost 
> NITTO about a m...and lawsuits were filed even tho nobody was 
> permanently super seriously hurt.
> NITTO is a small company, 40 employees, average age pushing 60, and they 
> aren't raking it in, so this kind of stuff messes them up, and that's why 
> they test in-house more rigorously than industry standard tests, and that's 
> why they don't make wide drops. We could ask them to design a bar-stem 
> combo around a widey, but probably we'd be a centimeter and a degree or two 
> or three off for some, and perfect for nobody, and it might be 
> unsatisfying. Drops are mainly for road use, because for trail use you 
> don't want a forward braking position--on a steep descent it makes no 
> sense, don't even argue for it. A short stem can mitigate the weight-shift 
> a little, but also on a drop, your lower hand position makes it harder to 
> weight the rear wheel. Over the years there have been remedial stems--the 
> LD, the DirtDrop to name two, but they evolved with a focus on using drop 
> bars because the straight bars more popular had their own problems.
> For me and I think most people, the Goldilox bar for trail riding is a 
> swept-back, come-up bar, which offers the grip positions of a drop without 
> the forward lunge braking position that fights you on a downhill. Visuals 
> and histories come in play in a big way when picking handlebars, though, 
> and there's no use fighting them. Plus, there's always always the pull of 
> the unavailable bar, or the bar that just so combines elements of two or 
> three existing bars but itself doesn't exist.
> I rode Ultra Romance's 66wide drop bar Crust and loved it. I don't think 
> I'd put a bar like that on my bike, but if it were on my bike already, I 
> wouldn't be in a hurry to take it off, either. There's a lot of conflicting 
> good ways out there!
>  
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 3:23:38 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 12:22:45 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:

 Nitto tests bars and stems together and wants the bars to break before 
 the stem. The bars are already strong, and they've found that even 51s (we 
 had samples made) impose too much leverage on the stem. The workaround 
 might be to make stronger stems, but then you get into a whole escalating 
 mish-mash where one chases the other, and stems, which have forced 
 dimensions inherited down the line, and then all you can do is make it 
 steel. 
 One of the drawbacks of working with NITTO is accepting their 
 super-prudence in times like this.  It's like, also, when our 66cm Wavie 
 bars come in---we'll recommend them only with CrMo or other Nitto stems 
 intended for mtn bikes. Some will mount them on Tallux (road) stems, but 
 we 
 will recommend something stronger. When NITTO hears "mountain bike riding" 
 they imagine the worst and stupidest. Personally, I don't think at all 
 that 
 Crust is being IMprudent with the widies. It's a good company and they do 
 neat, good things!

 On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 1:55:10 PM UTC-7, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

['Eamon Nordquist' via RBW Owners Bunch]

How about a MOOSE-stache!

Eamon
Seattle

On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 11:59:20 AM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
> I want a Noodle-moose too, Chris!
>
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Christopher Murray  > wrote:
>
>> I will pre-order any noodle-moose bars!!!
>>
>> Chris
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

I want a Noodle-moose too, Chris!

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:21 AM, Christopher Murray <
chrispmurra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will pre-order any noodle-moose bars!!!
>
> Chris
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Grant Petersen]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 5:20 AM, ctifusion  wrote:

> Thanks for the info Grant. I can understand Nitto's position. I have a lot
> of miles on those bars in road and "gravel" conditions and I don't get any
> sense that they are weak or dangerous.
>
> Also, not sure what the deleted message said but I surely didn't intend
> this to be a controversial post. I'm not a "gravel grinder" guy trying to
> change Riv, just the opposite,
>
> THe message I deleted, that was up for a minute or two, had a sentence
with a few missing words--typo. I just filled in the fix and deleted then
funky one, is all.

Nitto's paranoia is well-earned. Nitto has developed a small following here
and in Europe in the past eight to ten years or so, and some
importers/distributors have made available to the Western market handlebars
that were originally developed for city use in Japan. They're made with
perfectly good aluminum (they are NITTO, after all), but aren't made to the
same strength standards as the hard-core/universal market bars are. But
people see them as cool, super inexpensive, under-the-radar Nitto bars, and
they use them for gnarly stuff. A few years ago some burly Germans and one
or two Americans broke five of those bars, and the ensuing recall (and the
management of it, by a US distributor who is not us or Merry Sales) cost
NITTO about a m...and lawsuits were filed even tho nobody was
permanently super seriously hurt.
NITTO is a small company, 40 employees, average age pushing 60, and they
aren't raking it in, so this kind of stuff messes them up, and that's why
they test in-house more rigorously than industry standard tests, and that's
why they don't make wide drops. We could ask them to design a bar-stem
combo around a widey, but probably we'd be a centimeter and a degree or two
or three off for some, and perfect for nobody, and it might be
unsatisfying. Drops are mainly for road use, because for trail use you
don't want a forward braking position--on a steep descent it makes no
sense, don't even argue for it. A short stem can mitigate the weight-shift
a little, but also on a drop, your lower hand position makes it harder to
weight the rear wheel. Over the years there have been remedial stems--the
LD, the DirtDrop to name two, but they evolved with a focus on using drop
bars because the straight bars more popular had their own problems.
For me and I think most people, the Goldilox bar for trail riding is a
swept-back, come-up bar, which offers the grip positions of a drop without
the forward lunge braking position that fights you on a downhill. Visuals
and histories come in play in a big way when picking handlebars, though,
and there's no use fighting them. Plus, there's always always the pull of
the unavailable bar, or the bar that just so combines elements of two or
three existing bars but itself doesn't exist.
I rode Ultra Romance's 66wide drop bar Crust and loved it. I don't think
I'd put a bar like that on my bike, but if it were on my bike already, I
wouldn't be in a hurry to take it off, either. There's a lot of conflicting
good ways out there!


>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 3:23:38 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 12:22:45 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>>
>>> Nitto tests bars and stems together and wants the bars to break before
>>> the stem. The bars are already strong, and they've found that even 51s (we
>>> had samples made) impose too much leverage on the stem. The workaround
>>> might be to make stronger stems, but then you get into a whole escalating
>>> mish-mash where one chases the other, and stems, which have forced
>>> dimensions inherited down the line, and then all you can do is make it
>>> steel.
>>> One of the drawbacks of working with NITTO is accepting their
>>> super-prudence in times like this.  It's like, also, when our 66cm Wavie
>>> bars come in---we'll recommend them only with CrMo or other Nitto stems
>>> intended for mtn bikes. Some will mount them on Tallux (road) stems, but we
>>> will recommend something stronger. When NITTO hears "mountain bike riding"
>>> they imagine the worst and stupidest. Personally, I don't think at all that
>>> Crust is being IMprudent with the widies. It's a good company and they do
>>> neat, good things!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 1:55:10 PM UTC-7, ctifusion wrote:

 I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love
 them. And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right place
 when they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a wide
 drop bar into production.

 I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.

 Thoughts?

 Brynnar
 Indy

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Christopher Murray]

I will pre-order any noodle-moose bars!!!

Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[Daniel Jackson]

Limited run of the Crust Leather Bar Towel Rack 666mm Satan thingamajig now for 
sale up on the Crust Bikes site. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Dear Riv, please make a wider Noodle

[hugh flynn]

OH M G

NooodleMoose would be such an amazing, fantastic, and horrendous thing all
at once.

I want 9 of them.

Hugh “Noodle Rider” Flynn
Newburyport, MA


On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:50 AM Virgil Staphbeard 
wrote:

> They could be moose-style to remove the ability for people to use an
> "unsafe-by-nitto-standards" stem.
>
>
> On Monday, June 25, 2018 at 8:20:14 AM UTC-4, ctifusion wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the info Grant. I can understand Nitto's position. I have a
>> lot of miles on those bars in road and "gravel" conditions and I don't get
>> any sense that they are weak or dangerous.
>>
>> Also, not sure what the deleted message said but I surely didn't intend
>> this to be a controversial post. I'm not a "gravel grinder" guy trying to
>> change Riv, just the opposite, I think if people had a chance to try extra
>> wide drop bars they would see how Riv-like the riding position is. I simply
>> fell out of love with my 48 noodles after riding for a year or so on a bike
>> with albatross bars (and another with the underrated surly open bar"). My
>> point is that Rivendell has been instrumental in advancing smart, safe, and
>> more comfortable ways to ride bikes. I rode tons of road bikes in the 90s
>> and 00s with standard 42-44cm bars. In general the idea was to stretch out
>> forward over the bike (long stem helped with the narrow bars). This put
>> your arms into a more narrow position (and I was also taught to bring my
>> elbows in). I know a lot of people that still ride this way and I'm not
>> asking anyone to change, but I just like the more upright riding position
>> that Rivendell has often supported.
>>
>> Like I said, I'm not a huge Crust guy. I just happened to see a picture
>> of that magic beard guy with a prototype of the 666mm bars and reached out
>> to them at the right time and got a set of the bars. It took a while to get
>> used to them (and the super short stem set up), and I still think they are
>> a bit too wide, but I have to say I have been really transformed by the
>> ability to ride drop bars while staying more in the position one is usually
>> in with a set of upright bars, and go just a little faster. This has been a
>> big deal for me. This was the reason I sold my Quickbeam and bought a new
>> Atlantis. I thought the Atlantis was stout enough to handle the wide bars,
>> and I love the way the Atlantis rides with the wide bars and huge 55m
>> Compass tires.
>>
>> I'll keep an eye on my stem/bar combo, but I can't imagine the 5cm
>> technomic is a risk in road and gravel trail riding. So maybe we need a
>> 55-58 Noodle AND a pretty 5cm cromo stem? :)
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Brynnar
>> Indy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 3:23:38 PM UTC-4, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 12:22:45 PM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:

 Nitto tests bars and stems together and wants the bars to break before
 the stem. The bars are already strong, and they've found that even 51s (we
 had samples made) impose too much leverage on the stem. The workaround
 might be to make stronger stems, but then you get into a whole escalating
 mish-mash where one chases the other, and stems, which have forced
 dimensions inherited down the line, and then all you can do is make it
 steel.
 One of the drawbacks of working with NITTO is accepting their
 super-prudence in times like this.  It's like, also, when our 66cm Wavie
 bars come in---we'll recommend them only with CrMo or other Nitto stems
 intended for mtn bikes. Some will mount them on Tallux (road) stems, but we
 will recommend something stronger. When NITTO hears "mountain bike riding"
 they imagine the worst and stupidest. Personally, I don't think at all that
 Crust is being IMprudent with the widies. It's a good company and they do
 neat, good things!

 On Saturday, June 23, 2018 at 1:55:10 PM UTC-7, ctifusion wrote:
>
> I'm sure the 666mm Crust bars are way too wide for most, but I love
> them. And they don't really make them anyway, I was just in the right 
> place
> when they brought out the one run. I keep waiting for someone to put a 
> wide
> drop bar into production.
>
> I think a 58 Noodle would be a huge hit for a lot of riders.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Brynnar
> Indy
>
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-- 
Hugh Flynn
Newburyport, MA

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